History as Project: An Interview with Manfredo Tafuri Rome, February-March 1992 Pree n Serene aey a eter Passern: Could you begin by talking about the factors that contributed ta your intellectual formation? ‘Tafur: Wel, my family, ofcourse. There was my Jauish mather and my Catholic father. We lived in Rome, ware I was born My father ad Masonic tendencies, but also a layman’s mentality ~dsinterested, soto speak. Tw very lfferent personalities, My mother was very active, wth some pretensions to intellectual Ife. My father was jst the opposite, He wat an engineer employed ty the Ministero ei Lavori Pubblici, with no Inllectual interests. would say that my earliest intelectual tml were maternal — ut at very, very elementary level. For example when Twas introduced ta rus and fll in love with Bach, my mother asked, “What are you listening tx? Plan exerises?™ Ide’ really havea proper vide, My mother's name was Trevi. They were a Jewish farily from Ancora, but my mother had abwaye lived in Teramo. Her father was a textile ‘merchant, My granémother tree to teach me to read Hebrew but I was someuateluetant. Theve were frequent conflicts between my grand ‘mother and my mother because they both had the sama strong personality [ was very curious about this relationship, but atthe same time [was very attached to my mother and always tok her side in a dsp. But there was a turning polnt. External Iflumces have aluays buena powerful factor in my life, and thes started during my high school years, In my first oF second year ef high schoo, started listening avi to the cultura proeram an thera, And, at he same ine, I happene to attend a serie of lactures by Enza Paci on what was a that te generically ealed "existentialism because the material ranged from Kilorkegaard to Sartre Teas ht here, Yes! remember a summer spentat the beach in Forte de Mar I must have been stxteen, Something exploded, {began to buy 3h 2 tuantity of books by Camus and Sartre in Italian. 1 rememier that hese were published in be Rossa e verde eres by Biblioteca Mederra Mendadori (SMM). Inthe meant also became interested in architecture, harks to Paolo Ceccarlli There wee three of us ‘whe formed 2 group at Forte det Marmi that year: three teenagers with pretension to intellectual pursuit, ‘The sroup was composed of myself shxten years oi Palo Leon the economist; and Geccarel former dean atthe architecture schoo! in Venee, uh now calc the architecture faculty in Ferrara. The thre of us would pester Calo Carra, who use to sit inthe cafes, asking him all srs of thins Since both Leon and ‘eccarell were older than myself, they be ime in effect my mentors, Ceezarlli trough Bruna Ze’ newly published Storia delarchitetura moderna with him tothe beach that summer. The bank turned aut te be fundamental, sve 1 cansger ths moment to have been very important fr intelectual development But, we must go back a it further, use very early on, [vas fascinated by thought, and therefor the history of thouaht, philosophy whatever T could understand of ft the te. But I urderstod enough. T was especialy intrigued by philosophies posited as knowledge, rather than research methods ~ knowledge inthe Greek sense, However even before shat, besan to pant. This was actually quite important, because by the tone I was twelve o thrtzen years old, my interest was already focused onthe Italian “mastera"~Raphae, Michelangelo, Titian, and Correeao. I remember spending my Sundays anal of my free time ising the Vatican Lwauld goto the galleries daly, as often as could, ta study and copy paintings. remember something that now seems amusing ofcourse Twas very young, I remember asking myself if will never beable to paint ke these masters, why should paint Perhaps that isthe reason I became a historian. Thats, not knowing ‘atta do what kindof action to take, I chase to reflect onthe actions of others. The influence ofthe masters ‘was very Important, but there were also some contemporary artists with whom I had contact. usedto visit Leonardo Leni, fr example, avery wel-krown sculptor who lived near my home So, there were two types f stimuli that started affecting me around the time 1 was fourteen to sxten years old On the ene hand, {knew Ite medieval and Renolssance ar very well because I copes paintings. Las also ‘very eager to learn about contemporary art, but that was more dificult forme, so more or les menipulated colors. There was als the influence of Leonello, Wed an Via Glovanni Batista de Ross, and Ne has his sto In the ld German Academy bate twas called Villa Massimo. On the other hand, this lacalon inset had ‘reat impact hecaus this was where the German command was concentrated, and te entire area between Piazza Bologna and Via Giovanni Batista de Rosi was very bay bombed on two differen occasion. na = sense, danger became my fist encounter with death because ya miracle the house in which ved was the ‘only one lft standing when al the rest. were leveled. mentin this here because I brought to my attention at @ i ver erly age the problem of deracinaton or uprootadnss, whch was let drat amy fai ‘i HE Aue 1," ie fendi ite eae ieee: Si neeiisreeaiee | stitution — the bp mother At that ime, the problem was exodus. [never felt at home anywhere. Is nat by chance that, even toeay, Keep ‘acilatna between Rome and Venice. can vcilateon everything, yet needa strong sense of rots. Perhaps this ly of fatherfmather, and the Jewish compenent coming from my grandmother rather than my Niagebtier | Son aces | in Dip gh Sh se “Ben Arce Uy foe 9. trl yet ny thst nd upset ean tl ae Datuk otter Fat heres, adten reward aentacoecatwasbult | hace prt wnmeal he satnctonedocorednenr oy hoe lies sonetigeerendeard senha agSoeeran neces ‘that simultaneously fascinated and repelled me, It was a condominium project designed in 1951 by Marlo Ridolfi, | r tar ‘one af the mast important architects at the time, who had been working in the populist Tiburtine quarter as a neore- melshaeas ‘arsine flee i, alist partly influenced by neorealist teature and cinematography. It was truly a disgrace fr the upper middle ‘ass to demand such a deliberately unpleasant architecture, Iwas voletly shocking ta a young man like myself ‘Leonia asa worked on this condominiam project He dd some extravagant Majolica work for the atrium ofthe building, the balconies, andthe Planters, which ae stil there, This expressionist production was shocking to me, because I elt very isolate, allenated which explains my afilty for existentialism, 1 ended t appreciate everthing that was tragic, almast with a senae of pleasure. There was both pin and pleasure in this solitude, even yaw intellectual sattude. But once | arrived at this pal, {had ne referent within my family or elsewhere tea SITE al AM Tafur: 1 wa in high schoo, the Lice Tasso in Rome. But It waste same everywhere; the 1950s were terrible years riled . aE NU Tasatthe university, Outside inueness, here again, were actually more important. [had avery heterogeneous education, with nly one strong influence Bruno Widmar. Widmar later taught the history of philosophy atthe University of Bari and directed the pilosophy journal Il Potagora. He was very important, because he wat a saat, Since my Family was, [would say, lower mile to middle class, Widmar’s Marxist ies ddr’ appeal tome. He woul pek up ue manual, Lamanna, and explain that t would bea good ida to theow itaway. Then he wuld start the cass. Widmar started teaching at inthe semester, perhaps 28a substitte He was young. He conducted his eases nthe garden. He taht us Kant to Mars to American pragmatism as Iie were a single trajectory, ina way th ne one with any sense would ever forget. Widmar's Marx was nota revolutionary Marx in ‘the stret sense, His was He Marx that you find inthe Heg!lanim that runs fom Kant tothe French Revolution. This impressed me, but ran cuter to my devotion to so-called existentialism which Iwas notable to understand deeply enough anyway, because | viewed Itasa “French made of thinking. (Hence I could simultaneously be both fascinated and disgusted by Sartre) ‘Another influence an my thinking atte ine was Enzo Paci, who insisted on the trajectory of Hussr| and on the other hand, the traletory of Heidegger. had started to rea the very fw ofthese tents that were avallable in translation; | read Pai'sintrouctons to the texts in translation. ‘was about sevenizen when started to buy and read his work Some months 260, when realized I had ery few days left to spand on earth, {reflected on this pavteular moment my pas. The summer 1 aymed my high schoo diploma {was seventeen having started elementary shoal at Five, despite the racial discrimination That summer I Joined my parents in Fiugai where they were staying, They wer older, which racial My father wast least iy-six or Afy-seven years od when Twas bor, “afar: had two brothers, both of whom died of ellen’ dseases for which there were no cures, My ‘other also hada miscarHage fas the ony child who survived, So there wasslitude in my family, and Also Isolation an the outside, because mine was 2 terrible generation of atl lnovance,Itwas extremely aid my mather was mare than forty ict a carerunicate with professors, because even If tay listened to you, they always regarded you asan adolescent. This explain in some way my pervasive sense of soit. Vary often, now that [think bout thishas en on my ind "remember July of 1952. In the plaza in Gorso Tests, there wasa vey thy bockstore where I ist saw anew Italan edition af Heldegger's Being and Time translated by Petro Choi. I bought the book, and that same summer started to read Heidegger. What could J understand? | understod the atmos phere lunderstond some other things, too, but it was mainly the atmosphere tat struck so force fully remember lying under a tre, and instead of reading the Elogies o the Buclis, ead Heidegger. “han I rod to expan It to my finds, Ke wae probably very funy, but th to remember certain ines and moves met catty them. B a Pes apy yoo come aeca? a ‘Tafur: Wel after al, hese are Intellectual choles. I wassuferng lke the darned because I had two possibilities. On the one hand Iwas alte ‘ascinated by Freud ard psychoanalysis ut] theusht I would have ta study medicine trie this, but then realize that the fundamental point for ‘re was te intorsaction of history, pilasophy, and the history of art. Thi vine my objective. Then, a ane pint I discovered architecture through ied... because forced meCeccareli and my ear teasing of Zev's Stria del architettura moderna, 1 was passonate about art especially painting, and even Uiough I understoaé bath Tian and Picaso,Istil couldn't understand howto read a bulidng, LJustcoulde'tget 1 a {ried to aly things that ha scovered in Picasso's Guernica, but I found impos. sible, And yet, blleved hat perhaps I was capable of understanding. Zei's writings fascinated ms. understood that even an ugly 29th-century building could be valued Innis tisureal construc bu absolutely coud undersand he lng ound itl osteo understand te wetings of Gil Cano Argan, wither ater studies tn A ‘those years, Aran’ Borrominl was published in Wilan.*Lbelieve Twas ane ofthe few to really understand it, because [already had a certain philosophical background, Thad begun to understand that twas possible to read architecture asa human fat, or asa history of human labor and subjective elses. Icoulda't evaluate whether hat Argan wrote was rus ar not, but what fasenata! me was Mis Brulleschi, hich I aad later ateniversity> My transition to the stay of architecture was more ‘orless conditioned by the thought that, even if erly knew tow to draw figures, if could draw bulding able to understand more by studying history. But instead [suffered a violent shock ‘ity? Keep in mind that Iwas November of 1955, [had jst stared to attend lasses at Valle Gulia in Rome The lasses as most interested ln were those on artistic iterature. Renato Boll was teaching there, He was a stp of 30, if history wer part ofthe eurriulum, Fwould be Croce, or atleast eontimualyInvaed the Figure of Croce. While this was of relative interest ta me, twas wel within my mental fame of reference ‘But the terrible thing was that all the professors teaching the most morta subjects were fascists. They were the ones who had cone back after the ‘war There was Enrico dl Debbi, a very stupe man who later sued me. There was allio Morpurgo. Hislast name was f course Jewish and it seams that Bali was added for its Aryan merit in 1938. He was the scoundrel who destroyed the entre area of the Auaustoo in order to build that horrendous fascist stole pazza, Vieenzo Fasolo was professor ofthe history of art and architecture ~ anther fascist who would never show up to lass, and when he did come, he would shout He never shoded us any architecture, never taught history, would draw big diagrams onthe chalkboard shoving how stupid we all were, a then would Stare ou. He showed up o teach only thre times in whole year — though you couldnt rally call what he dd teaching, The professors the design studs, also fascists, would never how up fr elases. Basically they raed on aststante. These wer the professors The operative princple was that contemporary architecture must nt enter nt the cureeulum twas considered aherey. ‘My valent shoek accurel inthe design sta, There was a certain Tuscan intrctar named Carl omnia Roz ta began hi et leet with the assertion, From now on, you must abandon your books, Take your pencil a your nly instrument.” old myselthat Chad to change professors Immediately! What dows it mean to abandon books? In fa inthe clr ta thet prteserswared trast here asa para ton ofthe arte, Waste an artan ho sted Latin? Ho, Frere wasn arisen we ad ont eared speak otali,niy [est Thiswasinaceain sense, almost. aposive thing, becaset pte sto fra small grup compriad of igre who ae now eaching a ie Uveitis in Venice an ln lr ent, ue ences rao the Nay whote ner Sere Bree Roe Ve Ca ls ne nr for of hati small ey end vw Oo rea wows Mar Pa al 11 Mend we were alo olay ppstenal) Aranie Cede, for ane, was as fundamental Teprolem at thee was wether rot tee was nti Doe hs eth as Drea breton and partiatin? Des ithove anvting deco do witharcitecuret Aha ie we hou of archietre mae aun lari Therefore ne wndee lain wasnInfact more important than beautiful form: In my fourth year of university a young man rien of mine, gave mea book by Pierre Francaste, La. azo figratvo dal Rinascinento al Cubism, and I though, es, this corresponds exactly to the typeof culture that {love ut in he suburbs of sey. Al this was gong on while they were bullding the Reme Mito, wile Rome, which I visited frequently, rats attached children, there was pa, battle was waged ever ragulatry planing, which n the end suffered a terrible defeat, And then, without aur thinking about too much, Sartre's Itérature engagée became a realiy* But we didnt have any referents ike the Sartre we knew before the Partito Communist, Al ofthis brought us closer to Pannunzio’s 1 Mondo, Six years of psychoanalysis have given me the insight ta understand that twas nota random eholee but rather a | tame eon of ote at asede tena iat ae “Tafur: On the contrary. The politcal education in my family was canducted like this: everything was experienced as being cantradetary, hecause withthe racial laus, I suffered discrimination even f there was mar tolerance in aly toward so-called metic al-breeds, When the Germars came to Rame, we could not stay together; in particular, my grandmother wasn real danger Her name showed up on alist, and they Were faking for the So my parents sent me ttive witha family for prctcton, but nthe process I suffered arave physical inkres. There was another young man, 2 eserter ha was also taking rouge thers; whenever there was danger we were hidden behind a fake wall or na secret wine calla. Tramembor I bing very humid, ard the damage toy lungs hasbeen more apparent in these last few years The very few times that my father would go home; I went alongwith him. At great perl he listened to Radia London. He would laugh outloud, but | could understand anything. 1 just remember the “tuum ttn, oF “Fram New Yak, Firele La Guardia seakins.” Th thing that {made we lasoh wash ame, Floral La Guardia, bt twas extremely dangerous with he Geran cas asin by with hei srtenna they even tected us, but my father dict care, Every time | asked my father If Muslin) was geod or ba a eil's question he laughed but did not answer I reproached him for that. My father did not talk very much sid almest nating silently eoroached him later in my ite, because i he was listening to Rao London, he should have old me, My mother, who was Jewish, was even tempted to become a ‘un. 1 ha ery serious issues with my family staring in my ast years af high School and continuing through university Isley acused my mother of agnos Als, asserting tat the world wassick, an that she ony thought about making ‘money and living wel. had the idea that one nested to experience pain since its sls. part of life. Sometimes 1 even expressed these thoughts tern the end my ‘ducation wos nether Catholic or Jewish, thas tage al of ry religious ‘uation on my oun. Looking back, I think thie was a positive thing Passrii:Immestely after the war, and inthe early 19505, dd {Yur family read nenspapers at hame? Did you read the papees? “Tafa: After the war, we were suddenly very oar. My father became a tax! diver forthe Americans beause he had ar He drove people from Rome to Naples and from Naples to Rome, Then he started working forthe Ministero dei Lavori Public. We read II Meeaggero and Glonale Hala | remember the ewe front-page healnes, Gut you have to understand that they were always read Italian stl.” My father ued toca | pea - /Messaggero il menzooner, Fla. asked him hohe sipporte a he cuttin of pubic veraue monarchy but he woud tell me. Late clscovered thot my mather hae soe ends, ut al ith aes perfil, which 1 always oppose, So learns tobe proud of belonging tote BE epson, frstat home, then in igh shoo, an spell at univer. So what dd we do? We had to study. Inthe university there was nothing but rmis-edueation, so we had o educate ourselves. What referents did we have? Well, undoubtedly the most intresting ure for usin thse years was Emnesto Nathan Rogers, director of Casabella-Continuita, We thought the title was lori because it was Casabela by Giuseppe Pagano, which bear Casella-Contnutd. Forkastey, he Firs suse eae out just when {enrolled atthe university in Rome, Then there were Zevi and Arsan, Zev was teaching in Venice atthe time. He was i charge af the history of artand architecture program Argan was general supervisor ofthe fn arts program, bt eventually ‘ent to teachin Palermo, He later Was transferred to Rome, where I atended the of hs lasses But atthe besinnng, in 3959, 2955, 1956, la those years, our qroup had to manage on ts oun. It was primarily Ze! with whom we initiated our poem, tut without ever meeting him, We engaged wit his texts, We would meet athe brreia Albrecht in Rome, and slnce we rt have much ‘money, we ordered ter chips, and mustard (stil like chips and mustard very mocha We engaged in discussions eer d itferen. We would lve aurselvesa theme. Fr example, Argan’s book Walter Gropis ela Bauhaus hare Peaches BEEZ BE Bee ea ae firmly tte philosophical thought tothe historical context of Wear Germany asthe ideas and prodition of a group rather than - Se as fascinating tous because we believed that orgized aroups cau contravene the rampant professionalism arte bad habits of builders ‘Leman sulla citta, which nach’ yet been released asa film, became the object of our hatred, against which we saw thatthe faculty wasttaly misguided, Why? Because ou professors were misguided, and mast of cur student calleacues were sons of de pers and bulders, Sa we ha to Study what nas baseally forbidden, (twas forbidden, butitwas of the moment. Cantemparanety for uswas Germany of the 1920s, but we could ee the birth of something, a hotbed of contradctons, In is Bauhaus book, especialy in the fst edition (because he softened his position in later sition), Argan brouat together many of the fundamental themes of 1920s Welmer culture, Ike the theme of Existenz minimum, with Heidegger's Dasein. Tey this connection nauseates me but tthe time, Iwas fascinated, The most dramatic thing abut this book was that Argan saw thls anneston, perhansriahty, the tentative las attempt to redeem reason atthe expense of lanerance (which woud son intercede), the last attempt of «European reason doomed to defeat, ut it wasnt Nazim that woul bring about s defeat This had big pact on those of ws whe managed to Uundersta that book. Tt came out in 295, and wes abvousiy weten in reaction to Stria del architettura moderna, published the year before. The two books represented two extremes. On the one hand, Ze¥l proposed an optimistic pat, Ie was really abou the “American way of lie." He proposed Frank Lloyd Wright 2s a mocel, but for him twas nt strictly formal mado twas democracy. Actually both Argan and Zevi already sain ahi tectural form something beyond it. This had a tremencous influence on my thinking. However, Argan hada rage vision Overtime, Ieameto under sland that my mentor alvaysprofrred to carss death experience extremes, The other problem was aso to learn about the world We used to orgie caravans fold cars and go on sumer trips tht we paid fr by dng ‘he mest humble work an architecture student could do. L stayed up all night deslaningseafoling for ships. So every yea, fram 1956 to 1960 or 21961, we saw a iferent part of Europe, concentrating onthe tings that were a he center f polemical discussion, such as Le Covbusie's chapel |_stRonchamo, One sensed that what was expressed there al the optimism of the 1930s, was unwarranted ané merely bespoke a tlirie worl nary —Event, cur gaze was tralned on 1920s Germany, and later on, Vienna. What attracted us was not the clegance butte notion of proposing something, resolving somthing, or speaking aut with violent voce. ‘by that time [ha beaun to understand architectut, and we were ready to stage te it fully cecupation of the department. There had been earler demonstrations all over Italy. In any case, the First was in 1958, Its deeply Rawad, because our pretext for demonstrating was the introduction ofthe state exam for architects. We were abit eynical, and We thought we needed to come up with arguments that would tr ‘or ignorant colleagues to action, to stage something tat would violently shake up the entire department “The most important tings that we were looking for pretext, weak links na chain, in order to fect Aisruption, We used to say that we hada litebit ofthe whale world concentrated within the department. But ‘that whole world was conceived, as Antonio Cederna aught, as 2 protest against corrupt bulding practices from which emerged a politcal comprehension of he situatlon of us followed the ral of Salvatore -ebecchini/Esprsso with tremendous ansety, not lenst because Itwas our ible. And we found that we had in from of us ata certain point Saverio Murata igure wh taught furth- and ff-year design studs He hac just arrived in Rome from Venice, and was a well-known personality. Murator was te architect of the Christian Democrat office at Une EUR. Me was someone unique, someone wh had strong Intellectual revrance, someone who could erally think, He proposed a rather tragic vsion of history, because for him the crisis began atleast nthe 18th century It seemed ke one did't need to think so much about Cans} Sedlmayr, but rather about someone who had contemplate the crises insolation and sufered consierably; suffered for the word, These crlses semed to be te crises of European scenes, of Huser. Murator, advocating an extrerely reductive culture, was ‘against everything tat was modern This the pont, He thought that true modernity meant that everthing should start all over aga. sche rnin aces sui ot | Venice. For us it was a failure. We rejected the idea of recruiting professors who had been important twenty years earlier, Inthe end we renounced Passerini How exactly wes the demonstration conducted? You teak possession by | sitting in atthe doparimen,iteally vcupying the offies and buildings? | “ofr: Ves. These were actual occupations, violent occupations, But the university wasrat accustomed to such things. Atane point the secretary ofthe department sid, “Lack, 'm going ocall the dea.” replies, "Okay. Cal he dean antl hi” The secretary sald, (tl him that youre al cones, that now 'm disconnecting the electrical power” AI sad, “Alight. Go ahead and csconnec the elctial power In the meantime we wl restrain yu.” Unfortunately na on’ rerere the mans ame, butItwas ery funny, I reeriber that srmeone bro some ropes and we ted him up io Bieseen the ronformist, thelr aves bute dun in bam sree hope tonic apocaibate: Ls prerigure ine srt comre-sn UNO} These wened tarrupttonsthis kindof ebate —— nelly io Rae, but more sere te grand other attempt formule ah I Btn he 19605 tere was principe tha lands not arate eo, a aention ofthe (NU to ik wee Taye based onthe eer ne car only pes of Pree, ot usa onnesip fete ene otal meri of the land. Ths the Lappe Slo, ante fal ee Tiss were pols that we ath on ena nde sre fr lead saad eno. Zepeda ffs in print, In articular in the magelte Araitlisra-Cronache e Stari st yrale i was ipresed ty a wees Fr us, architecture passa lative fact that when they sleiediathet Keim Dna. = therolonel oe eo seats rane stone back scl bncau fave eer bt sta San Pola LAG pi Sy wold eport on ur aces eres We ed spl wp il te group wher we earl tes the papers Pethans ta rstintoresting thing stat the person who came with me was Massimo Teodor, a member ofthe Partito Radicale. These groups held ares fascination, but at the same time were entirely functional ‘AfferTambron) and ather such Incdents, we felt we couldn't continue without a party affllation, Many of us, almost the entire group, chose the Partita Secialista, fo obvious reasons, We believed that all the larger problems which at thet time were much more evident — cule! be 1 Ge ese on ih agri Let ers vas ser epson 000 Maa it I Decne Dusan se wer lied a 28 ral tengo te mes, Ard is very fil, since teva ‘personalities lke Lelio Bass, and Raed Panter. Almost Immediately Panzies became the ‘main Figure; and almost immediataly after tha, Quaderni rossi ‘These ings hada tendency 2x overlap, In 1962 and 1963, Quaserni ross had alread state to come ou, aida problem ares sat wns entirely new _lapalkial ier thai h eta bese re eee a foe ills Grud Wade RpenMarct Peer eneeber te Usha oe bl 0 rut Mars rears do what be hs done, tat sta start all ver agsin; that was Marxism—not to aad Marx ina serulle way. This positon was sa strong that It resulted I a certain distortion: we profoundly despised a the Marxist wors that were bublshed atthe ime, We decried tem as "sebastien he st rl ntti imSamer otme AVA When etait rel eas be saa res ase ly nly ‘that Elnaudl made the eibtake of traelating The Destruction of Reason by Lukdes een suck out at the figures I loved: Kati a the avant-garde. This conf forme and fcr hss subjective resiton~ the a Hin pl pint of ‘view, we needed to start all over again. ttalsa posed a ia rable fare kay up ul ne hoe one wat Ihave dove bene a hyde bt no, vial an 1 ein? Wat abo yb Flr? Fastin ve, ales end aor of Inia tht oaceiacbeiarst feo ‘there was. an °T,” not oply.at™us.? Taf Yes, because for them (t was ear, more les, Al things considered, dey wanted to become architects in order to change society honest Onthe other hand, I wase't interested inbecaming an architect because the practice af architecture vas nota the ‘tle ly zest 801 opped nikal oI stoped or awl I Ielmysll ge or be War Tese wre years cis, because} GIG a nally. While Las attracted ta history, 1 always had the fear hat story was af tape, saething tobe renounced in favor of _ len Jal gully! For someone who had followed Panciet and Basso, must be gully: Iwas afer shat Ih 1964, that Zev and Portoghes! curated 0 exhibition on Michelangelo architett, which would have big affect on my thinking ® : Strangely encuah, those who {considered tobe the great thinkers atte ime, principally Rogers erecta of Casablla, and Quaron, sought me || aub Lbadriten about the most insignificant things in minor magazines like Argoment dl arhitetlira ad Superfc. These were small magazines Ste sion wes to counteract he menooly oft big mages to which the yunser pacts ha fe sees Quail woes by on {leo mine on the politcal developments at Rome, in which I tried to look atthe period from esti ie wa pn 1961/*in order to sot how ites were involve, or “engaged withthe situation ant had mentond him in ths conta E puna Mborbe e e lstt -ASthe Comat de en! Seals, we had comhicted an autonomous struggle again the bots of peut pan inpalel io amet Now the people who sought me out were fail mportant, Rogers ha already fallen il. Heinas teaching to Courses a Imilancone inthe istry of rad architecture which were thn tah tai and oe In ceson He was avery generous ma nd fe We che megs we a a ke each ber very much. He asked meta ade tmcrary ont tachng at history “arali”Ias mi Rit tn eaehing aet mcipe snp ——————— Ine, the fe me gave me a plot sa, ard WA ty ind ome. ah seas, ‘he Partito Socialsta, but I couldn't support thelr-position with respect to the regulatory plan for Rofne. not too many; It mst nave been 1963 or 196 On the other hand, there was Quaran who eae snalty similar in some ways ta Rogers, At Fist, he approached mi to ask f I wanted eta book about him. No, actually he ted oto. an anthology of his writings 1 was mar interested In writing a book an Wm, because he was a ‘haracter who had passed through a period a fasjstsymoathcing, frst frm apolton of opposition, and later from ane of surrender. He sent theDeriod ofneorealsm and social engagement working as protagonist It wasnt easy to idan architect wa hat spent so much of his tine datng research fo the parliamentary commission an poverty. This was very important, Inthe same sense as us abandoning our books fr the graphic ‘esianers their drawing tables) to go and throw rocks atthe police. This was the climate ofthe tines. [ote my fst book on him. (twas eng interview, mare or ess lke this ane, conducted over an entre surmar, with an extensive bibliography. It made a huge impessin, because a one at the ime had ever thought of writing a merograph ona living architect. I tok the subject as an opportunity totalk about eter issues Past n tate, you nen oa itor, Tafuri: Ves, but Quaronl vasrota great architect, and {knew it perfectly wel, even if he had produced mmpetant even beatiful prec later in life that were never realized. Essentially he exemplified an architect who had participated inthe whole trajectory of Italian history, the most profound ofall of them, He had pose the same questions T would pose for myself the 1960 and 1970s: “Where are we coming from?” and "Where are we?" not so much "Where ae We going?" Ina sense, Quaron Brought me back to the university, because it would have been dificult forme te re-enter a place against which {had strogaled so vilently, On the one hand, tere was Milan ard the aslstanship with Rogers, hile othe ther, Quaran’ asked me o teach seminars onthe history of archi ‘tecture at Rome, He hada positon split betvaeen history of architecture and fourths and fth-year design studios, and he just wast intrested in ‘aching history. He asked me todo seminars on 29th- and 20th-century architecture, which I dias wel as | could at that time This was 1964, he same time thatthe big Michelangelo exhibition opened. That exhibiton made me 0 angry! T understood it as an example of how fatto do istry! From a subjective point of view you could say that I resolved my destiny inane night. Ths fs something that has happened often, ven in eter ‘matters, One tragic ght {was miserable because [had to decide between practice ad bstory. I remembe was seating walklng around, fl has ‘fever At the end nthe morning, I had deeded, ang that was i! | gave up al the tols of architecture and determinedt dedicate myself entirely to histor. What kindof history Id ky, bu knew at that moment that It shoud be istry ry hd se estion ila arto made meso ana? it because Prtoshe spre he acai, and assaon as Ze anv in fore thehition wie "Zevianze The oof tem owned tis ‘chitin tt rote tata deformation oficvcl Wun aero ‘rarmitomthngt anteriporary arcs But uhat i ey rans? Wel as 196, In Fores the Maio Masa had rezone expres sn dns inartanteinrscsionson mar andrea Ts wasseenant experienc onside of te ra torial a aries tural etre asa reaction tthe flush ft cess, Ze ho tad personaly wns te falure te Lag Sul had leary ecoazed th feat and was end he conan ofthe Melange ein, Michdanele as reared ona pr wth te canara architect Ere ees 2 ft sy that ts theta of te nll ~ pat erases | £728 agit he pan ofthe huran ction. The potest fhe mass, by eras wor repel. Wha appeared carne wes dt such political experiments wth hstry did work. My position was that history isnataninetruent of polis History stor. Necstang -| $0, of the oe hard thre was history while on te athe there was pales | marta bee om Rone ta Yenc, Tima te sae ptt alae Fass, the ones who publishe the fist sues of Controplano. But the debates storied uth earlenThe iain gues were Mario Trot, Alert Asor Rosa, and Massime Cacia, ie wae stil in hgh schoo! “pins eae by Para raled important io ws into rear o Mark mean to oso Mars ns tha st underst osiswané ant tot mebsend am ih ane to et ‘efess i aia ston os utateseveleoent, cause emessiredat that el, and ot inalowot or Ths was bie str. Then re as ht eta impact of he aetoy ons therefor of te wirkin an anda othe wortsras bet in fac at certain pont we ask ‘who was is sbi to wh heal sil rd urban once refers? Tos nosed Or itsetmed os, The enphoss on tes fact wastneBexinnng. Bt ote hs wee gafed many ck "Wont refictions. lunesta ti man tht the whol eft oat is mgeed ty its om istics contruction oie the exression erica delideoogaCrtqu of isla, which advanced he iden tha itis pose tod areal ols, whieh becomesin arash eri fol Fors, ne enue of olay waren the rte ofthe Leth In mate, Feed at certain pnt aim ata cra feos, which ‘neces 9th history of architecture and the histor of ae in ' rl plied in Gantoploo in 196, but writen satewraterlin Ih 197, £eveloed the ania apart als Progtoe oni hag tof succes, thous 1 avery undersond i Then at sore pit envied in the Faro Socaisis alane Unk Polesaria (PSU). sot remember exactly when, but reel tat lft lost intl ately caus hey wer aking about Cu, Chin, an the Third Warland Twas ieritated because my problem was the suburbs y Passein: Were you based In Reme during this tine? Tauris 1 was moving etueen Pome a Man. But stayin Rome betwen 2964 and 1966 teaching the history of contemporary architecture for are Attala faz Rous pov, called me rum Milan sayin, "Lon, we havea ston nat istotere? Lwas ck, wel 1 asst teeing sant HE 18Gb you oe area al ear tpi "HOW doers ma” asked "Sha Te shut importa? He ele, We kyo et en ie amie ty ile ut youare ese le!” Wel ow ‘do you say no to Eriest Nathan Rogers? So, {tid a horrible thing that weigfed on my-consclence for. .well, cerhaps sil welts on me. I put togeter ahr publication {had already dene the book on Quaro a vara publetons on everythin from contemporary problems to store sues Ata certain pin, Lassambled everthing {has thought aruiten an here tht seme Be in vogue at theme: mannerism. ow would ot krow what the word manners means, but ae ne Fhe Threw, pu everthing toaster and published tis harble ook on manners with the smal Roman press fei they ere rene krown for epg younger men lke myself. Te was tally remature {id only er the sake of to. | Thesarch commie was compose of Zs, Galen de Ages Osa wha a tn my tary prfztoric my rye at invert ane ‘rd ere sare were The tn sor Mil ah tive nner sg of Pages ad itasllon was held for Poreshes, who had worked very hard on the baroque. There wa a second position, which everyane thought would goto Benevol, whe emerged in 1960 with his Storia del'rcitettura madera Parenthetcally, iis wa the First book Lateaa ever published onthe | History of art and architecture, Itwas very important because twas the rival of Zevi's history with he same tle, Today we would eal it social art ‘story one by a Catholic communist But eves if one disagreed wth him, Benevola was mpertant And the, thre was. third poston, ‘9 tosomeore ese twas a tera,” as Zev uti Meanutile, Paolo lat, who has been a schoolmate of Ze confronted me withthe question, “Youre inthe competition, but de yo als expect {owin?? 1 tld him, “No, Lam nthe runing because Ernesto aid...” He retorted, “Well, why dort you absolutly want to win?" He was angry with me beeause Iwas teaching history of contemporary architecture. evi was jealous because | was tudylg mary languages be did't know r so heard. manly studied German, so I came into contact witha rumber of things. {had apilolsical vocation that offended him, because I was writing pamphlets and he was only reading them In the meantime, Paolo Alar dle, For Zev, Alati was the ne with whom he could always argue, but wha ded before revealing his eal Itllctual capacity. Zev sid that he sup- ported mea, even mare than suppor, he imposed me onthe commissioners because he savin me arefetion of Alt which would | i But this was nt entirely honest. The real reason was that Zev was being persecuted by a fascist deputy ntofesenr called Frio Fasolo, who had organtzed the tase students _aalnst him. At that time the law date tat i an ordinary professor applied for a job he would have priority ave a depuly professor wh was not i BPP Pie postion, even f the later ha ity years of experence. Ae ths man, iho was perhaps lea sty years Od als partleipetingin he EBipatton forthe fo, at ne thing in mint see that T won. He knew tat no other department was offering me a postion. At Rome, he was the enyone thinking The ony lets facuty that would ca me was Vel, and he would expiinto Giuseppe Samond in Venice that he should’ offer me a ‘— ecause my allegiance was to Higher caus. I vould get the third position but would have te ile to Succeed Faso, and he would Rave “at old fascist aut of his way. This wasn’t bad thinking. He couldn't say anything, of course soe ust ranked But [as Jews, ike hin, and this asthe factor e ha rckoed ith, Bt was wha movie el hi hat had done a inte We ht th the word he word ispowarful enous thn what aul || ater that Fssioorsanizes te fascist stadet? Furthemar, haw coud aryane Be preecanad wit ecam in 1965, 1967 Esa acts did't nore There vere alreatyother clams, In adton ot {ld him L ued Ni nting this was he ois side Towed him absalitely thing Because he hac et taken lw dessin, nf hha any seond outs, tas ote enable me a Wn From Wisperspecive he had gven me agi btithad drama consequences. Wy? bpp iccaicece erat tha inate, ut rather Bev, wh Soi ae yon hes Bt ahd in ar pshede ht u || tate Later ah ater st ste dep rents tt eo et fois apa are wats alt wih old afte | | sermon itor ise. (va scp trey fat pearl i theo ht se aba i enamel ae {cies iy petra sed vey Torte"ili carly serous Fos oti mb ewe for read half yrs Indie acted peso te city at ae ayer ana a 19619073 yas rose sel teaching ns else mt ofthe tele Ore. Toppy ey btn ac eC Wve Uwe the aroun of RE Band sy, tired my ttn lo & rE es EAE rected rm, al bean a oh erst study inspired ty Tront, soe Rasa, and the group connected with Romero Panzer. { so began to confront problems like what constituted Ho hes a price cul geste str alee: We apcoenalsi wat ving my ea } “esq moved re larly my Hog a genral, hy wee as for my Trl tra d'art uhich roan wha sen | vores rn Peter Weiss Maras: Sade 9 Marat . ‘Ta sort out the tre from the false: ‘We mast pull hiselves out af the ditch We must know ourselves i by our bot straps {on krowr rset : © turn isie- ont a ——— ance serthing with ne eyes aint reiectit a vou fs ito Ht ur rs Wy? Wel those of us in my crc an this dd nude architects, because {had abandoned them completely et a strong bord with Gruppa%93, with Umber Eee and. Franea Fortin. Fortin had oraanized a conference at Venice called “Candi corte serpent.” ‘vas fundamental, together withthe articles “Fie dlfantiascsma,” and "verifia del oer The situation nips eas, 1966 and 1967, made manifest Panes sistenge ‘tha starting allover an called for an enormous work of destruction si that all fs Sleepy ingrained ideas dl sentiments that ere out of date. But why the dstich from Marat- Sade? and wy a calgue as the point of ery into te Terie e storia? Well, the dstich had jmocessed mea an exageof nen loa, Isa ita aay to emphasize th poston fhagtaken itn this book, tha it offered ne certainties. A been ofthe book | ‘hat my reflections were a of dalogue th mysalé “wo things I emerter abit the tne when I was wring Teorle storia: Fist, Gyno 3 ‘Strebler organized veer emporant recital with Milva atthe Else Rome arourd 19% 7) “1 Berthold Bech" Crema dimiing Bec’ tial tenth an ntl, Berthold Brecht veto dal desert dastalte./38 He halter a bey figure Fr us ‘nites ad is importance a poet. Boal al as Binh. Ft ofall Peeese te ee tal was staged atthe sea. Bu there was alse the prob) that just ot mesn anything tome; it was pure Weoley. The second thing that ha rook’ fmverion of Mara Se, wher pee se of his stich.Was no by chance that while Iwas fishing my fst psychoanalysis, 1 gradually conceptualize Une dea of history as psychaanaysis of society, ‘There followed the heated debate about whether fstry could be analysis or rat. The conclusion was that everything could bean instrument of ‘ange —In my field and in general. So even Marxism, not Mar, neds tobe shaken fom is foundations. This was consistent with some ofthe films by Geir which as Eco observed dnt seem to be making sense anymare, La Chinolse (1967), for example, a Deu ov toi choses que esis elle (1967), The project wast challenge everyting that was consolidated on the lft and everything that could called "scholastic." This was the de: the question was how to effect what was essentially a cultural operation — which I save a fundamental ta historographic thought — sing the eos specific to the discipline of history ané maintaining as much phlologeal accuracy a8 possible One of the key objectives of contemporary art was to engage the viewer as a participant inthe work of art. We interrogated contemporary artwith resect to the position ofthe subject, how art distorts the bchavor ofthe sublet, and how it eden Netoricization impssile. In the enti, Eco was writing hs Opera aperta, in which ne demanstrated the Importance ofthe spectator, with is subjective construction and continuous Participaton inthe work. This participation effectively negates critique, insofar as It implies ao detachment from the work, Feaio implies a crucial historogrephic problem, because as we had sen, the more "engaged hstviagraphy tended ta form, at “rue” history (because we know that ro such things exis), but rather the stent. Zev’s Michelangelo exhibition stood as an example. Argan’ methods might have been more refined, bul they effect the same kind of deformation. The facts that neither stents of Zevl nar those of Argan everset feat in an archive. Passerni: So they tended not to value historical sources and dates? Tari: There were no historical soures, na dates. There was no ditinetion between primary and secondary sources, Philology completely ‘vanished, Argan oldu that he was proud nover to have feund an unpublished document. This heriied me, becouse my problem ws that no one Ice atthe rope aad ad mere hy oth heap fedora te str om, nc seo ris ‘wat léspure pla reach on Brerin ekg soca tm irs anita ro eC vi ede a realtome te pele ao cant toma igre ata Uhr na ot leah ak reco pt ‘unt ada “Tish ge ra poy oscar ftp hater etl etn Tove, meh tout gst at llecrln ee or eae eet stor ire rae oie ol redo ile rode cn onlengerary potions al tlierate eure seth oa. ope ei = ths fart uma sore espa cote anon ats, : : aren wi a elas sevens eee ne ope Si, ‘This is what I called critica operativa. a 2s een rte al elo arte rome ria yi ied hl eras see net “ysl omy ite ane aes wader af on, ets ashe ba ayo FS fn eater get le oe! bests ever I est no wee bo uel ewe {enter into the wark as an open eanstrution, because they became so iryalved that te hal ne storia detachment ~ either from the work af, nor from the meaning of te wore[Yields ha hey heeded earn ave ad ee ee sa tine bneasse atthe mmentore inthe see of _Mhasterpiece by Borromini, for exampic, one must remember that what we don't know Is as important as what we do know. How many workers died fina of eseatlsing?Thiehumbers are recoded, But ne ha Borromin ile a laborer wh was incre ly tying ties fora Pavement at San Giovanni in Lateran. The great architect bea Une man to death witha cane because he vas hysterical abd néuroti, phe he ‘argued thatthe labarer's mistikeuis an act of sabotage bythe enemy. The pope intervened) ard Bacterial got away wit i by retiring fora few. ‘months to San Martina in Ghnine, Ultimately, knowledge has never been the Issue; inset Weduty what relly matters. [n any ease, 1 insite that ‘the goal was detachment fru the work: on must love and bate the work atthe same tie. (On the other hand, I began to realize that contemporary art and in particular architecture, hae painted itself into a corey (rota twas sificult to escape. Even the bi ideological proposals that emerged at that moment provided no salution. Ialy’s frustrations inspired futuristic ideas about projects 074 afand scale, but this was alo an effet ofthe early centro-sinstra, that s, hope place In topic prfects fot fres society. These ‘things horrfed me, il saw that they were a conseauenie ofthe practice of Inextrlcably tying a language, a series of architeetural languages (ike ‘mode iss), t0. Then we began dniove that brought us to Gllle Romane til working on the corpus of Antonia da Sangalo, The anbers ofthe scientific camvmitie meet together atthe Etudes Supétiures de a Reralssance at Tours, We ‘But that was onl an epsade, Weare ‘Centro 6i'Stut Internazionale di architetare started a joumal and we are contemplating starting another, baroque don't bacomesufoctina, “its he acti, Ldelached myself to someextent fram the arou at Vere ofr a8 eau easily combine he wo ites, Tel reton leased me ery nic because the fact fot having Someone so sutteatng ke looking oer hi sauder althe Une alowed a Kind of aera ta takeover Inthe area of contemporary culture, forme apeson oF exceptional itligenee~ on ‘he architect MeinchTesencw# He did for contemporary culture wha | insocal art story. Inscheol wfienever Isis feeling gully T would leok at painting by caso. It wa a sens tis im Aceattone (196, the strugne between two masculine boss, which Is really. ato area Palacio” in Vicenza but als at the Centre ‘broad publication feusing on hstriagraphic problems, so thatthe Renaissance ans in pavtculay, here as the Book of Marco de Michels — was doing forthe Renaisonce, For this reason, E would never recognize myself of guilt ofthe kind Pasolini deserts, Sas moressed by foe, with Bach inthe backround Then Tread he poet Qe Foses. These things come ta mind now as fre assaeations with the feng of it. They come to meas fantasies. | believe te sere of gut scars fue, butwe dont appt. For example, ry sme of ult about We baralty of rain things have done seme writs ars critique my work rom the nt of ew of lariat ideas, Carnnabeteed Ut soeone oul eenstrat— ars Wis, by he way aretha had made fac iste, I wou alto dee depression, ‘When I was very young I thought that 1 needed to communicate what I was working an, even the methodology itself and [ overestimated the capacity i ofthe students, I policed because they wanted “paracie” today Sto speek But at he same time, Ioverestirated culture, In 1968 nd 1970, nan Fie tac like the neat Vere vera unded peopl at your lectres but al sevenyof the ake the exarirain where students rom other faculties come to aut it seared that everthing cule taken for grant. W's the ingen the young en at lags his ae dase that av too advance but in taking everything for arate, he cores to thik of them a ormon erchadse. Thertore, what must be taught satan ‘mission nat only of the information or the methodology but also the art af canstructing Interconnected historles. When I started to direct my first disser- " fats, understood that Told actually each is What yas more ipartant was the mth of Ives gation, 2 ery eliferent shina aackaly . relized ow much etch eo he eld a en elected an ow ideals had bee. Lunersiod that shuld ot ctr about whit ‘ary of the studets study History because they wil became eanservatrsofulldins, nt historians, These grand illectal constructions shuld be | addressed a my colleagues who are hetavians in the ssctnines rather than my tudes who inany cave wl need to knew very wel how buleing ‘as made inorder oto make eras inthe practice of conservation “There are many diferent teciniaves for determining an anroximate date ora manually constructed bilng, Ancient Roman bricks carry date fetal. mention thee things nt ta bore you bt stamp, Witha val fram the 11th century te stuation becomes far ore complex coud 0 rather to point out that there is avery spel philology inthe material prod tseF ‘Buthow should | know if am looking at'a Renaissance drawing o a sketch from the antique, an original drawing or a copy? Copying was done sing ‘very sip tecnlaues. Students must naw tem. You take the pant and ook to see I there are nese holes, cause to transfer adrawing from one sheet to anather without the eetnalagy of phatocopyng, nedles were urd. You hava tobe careful not to confuse nee fle wit he hale made by the point of compass. You need good eyes, a certain sensibility ‘Thus there are bo instruments of philology: on the ater fact ofthe building sel the others tradtanal phlelgy, he study of documents and rasings, Thee is aso the Knowede of nstiutonal history, tha, knowing where the archives of ne ly or another reel For many years _asslane students these problems, becuse Isat he historograhle eanetructan asan evasion not an evasion na of Isl of eau, bu somtimes would askimpself wy do [rite Ldn kom Maye for ny fends ~Nke Caza, who doesn't hae any cornection oar history, or Cerel ar Luisa [Mangor, or sore ater find, In my uriversiy teaching, alamys fer monograph courses on single architect. Ths teach what I would never take asthe subject of my writing, that the biography af an arte, because I blieve that to treat the bograpty ofan architects essentially banal. Why? ‘Because Ido nat regard the casal momest of rth the easual romant of death as historical problems. ‘Students aviv atthe university with horrendous ignorance. My worries about the tranamision of lnouledge are immense. But {have other ‘concerns the degree, the doctorate, and post doterate research, Students come tome rot knowing how to draw the section ofa vault cresiog, They all fail because Uy possess no visual culture f hey had learned In hgh schoo ite it of Wsual eduction... Theres this tarrble prevalence of iteracy ina word that is entirely based on vision, and this sa profound sontvaictlon: at te urivarsiy, you must teach the history of vison In 1970, 1 | devel an interesting course on te conquest and development of meric, Itwasthe verses weight say operatives —whe followed the conquerors ofthe Léth century into the Americas and developed the mechanisms of conversion, totally transformed the cites Int chessbeare, an then imposed the legal code of Philip I. Ths course was coordinated with other lecures on 2ath-cantury America nwhich Thomas Jefferson discuss, | farexample. Jefersonwasa great architect. He was a diletante bt, netheless,a great architect who bul several important ings other than the {/ vnlversty of Virginia. Thor were also seminar onthe 19th century an the contemporary period. We put together an extensive curriculum composed of many hisnry courses. was interested in how the teaching was transite! throughout the culture of master builders who cross! the ‘oogan and ted in the United States ~the great culture of onus who had xen a roughly reproduced European architecture. The sincerity in the rudeness ofthe master builder wa fascinating We brought students tothe U.S. as part ofthe program. Allof tis implies that I knew everhing, ‘but made ge didactic mistakes, | don't recall exactly, but | know that fade them. And T continued in that way, ahways sen to rake larger and larger connections, For tree years 1 fered a seminar that began with he late medieval pevid in Venice and ended wit the rst dcades ofthe 17th century. The finale allowed me to weave together artistic events, the interdict of Fra Paolo Sarpl and Leonard Dona but began withthe ecne of the Midsle Ages. I constructed this course so that te students cau come Inte contact with the paler, ee. Itwasall there, nd Twas sure that they could ee. Then I did seminars on histoviographic methods that touched onthe subject of at histoy only slighty Fall, but entered ‘very deeply into te work of hstarians ofthe Annales school. Then I stopped allo this Instaad,{besan to work withthe doctoral praes, but [have T stopped that ta because Ihave the impressan that, in large measure, Italy isfaling to pieces, The Tawer of Pavi cllapaes, an! then everyone forgets about it after year ors, sine amounted to no more than a sensational headline, a Soon everything wil fall because, for various reasons, the world of architectural culture grows ever more stant from architecture sel. At his point, ry goal ft ring i into the cesest broxtty with the bri, the plaster, the cladding, the peprina reogniton afte dference between one oranather kins of peer — this ‘making my work more complicated. But my books aren descated, as they once were to stents Passeink: Not Tar: No. Perhaps because they ate na able to read anymore, i transmit something tn students, f try ta each series oF methods, its lificlt= GE er aiunereinating mp ca hae ot lective fish th ie are waren! carlos 192 ‘i's pining but o evoke ie ator Wee Nd. We Kina a poral of Witigescins tr e eaten aac he beter iy vee ie wom li di i i ne wo “feta mes, seu {grated vor sow ta 7 4 nie attri been somal ate aay Ki, nd he set ana shad abangtte me ariel Pe ah es Bes ipa revealed alte alia “Te demorcrate te contradictions Orv Fil mary Tray lad yee yn net veri ii “ the Gui played wen Area Groh Aaah Wii {St Marisas Macsro Caplin 1527. Th fdr strona didactic approneh 4 ey uct on effects ard eel sro elo suerte area Importaie 9 the images 66. 1 stow slides very slay since skid of stcovery The dscovery aa draning by an sae Fe erent en tna ce thot Fever tor almost aint mouse nou tn Sie, because I can ne longer teach, because | aise Ret ness he ght pl, Stars wha have st be SE eto are net een ved damnation the plats whey the sever He Thea cig eect eve rhe cual ile Suerspass ook Abr around alata rear ean ke treating complcte theories. Today the pice isa lesan, a pasion for mare ress isignficant eves. nthe poll peeve are wits deauatonof ompetncein favor of otc yall ayant ha he tar rary world om crit eo ae rensating fat a to preserve soe vena diy aS in own oka lng ota mh sy oH yeaa Nh 21 html dese ly Pe Ve ie ts oo