Classic Posters - Interview With Chet Helms by Michael Erlewine

Classic Posters – Interview with Chet Helms by Michael Erlewine
Classic Posters – Interview with Chet College, and he had a correspondence

Helms by Michael Erlewine school. You could take private lessons.
You just sent him money and ultimately
Background in Texas
got some kind of a little doctorate of
Michael Erlewine: What was your given divinity or something of that order. But
name Chet? basically, many of the same
Chet Helms: August 2nd, 1942. fundamentals for creating and producing
churches apply to creating and
Chet Helms: Born in Santa Maria, CA. producing shows. So, a lot of the skills
Chet Helms: Chester Leo Helms, Jr. that I had, that I brought to that, came,
really, pretty directly out of, in a sense,
Michael Erlewine: You've done so much being back stage at a church. You
I can't hope to… everyone says you know.
have a wealth of stories and knowledge.
Basically, what I'd like to know is: how Michael Erlewine: Hmm, what would
did you get to California or to this area some of those skills be?
of California? How did you get involved Chet Helms: Well, promotional skills,
in the scene? How did you get started in for one thing. How to communicate to
this whole dance-hall scene? the world that you‟re doing something at
a particular time and place. Part of that
came out the fact that my uncles were
Chet Helms: Chester Leo Helms, Jr. printers. I think my uncles and my
Michael Erlewine: How did you get to grandfather got into printing initially, so
California or to this area of California? they could publish Bible tracks. But to
How did you get involved in the scene? make a living at it, they also printed
How did you get started in these whole advertisements for newspapers and
dance-hall scene? broadsides for local supermarkets and
things of that order. My brothers and I
Chet Helms: Well, I think that‟s how it
had a canvassing distribution business
seems to be getting written in history
when we were teenagers, which doesn‟t
right now. I think I and a lot of other
sound like much now, but we were
people started this whole dance-hall
makin‟ two bucks an hour, when there
scene. I was certainly one of the, I don‟t
were plenty of grown men making fifty,
know, inner circle of maybe ten or fifteen
sixty, seventy-five cents an hour in
people who kind of generated it.
Texas. This was primarily because we
My background was that I was…well guaranteed our work.
let‟s put it this way: my background for
And if we covered one of these new
presenting shows had to do with having
tract-house subdivisions with hand bills
grown up, after my father passed away
and someone found some in a gutter or
when I was nine, under the tutelage, if
something of that order, if there was any
you will, of my grandfather. He was a
question whatsoever about our
fundamentalist Baptist minister who
coverage of it, we went right back
essentially made his living and way in
immediately into that neighborhood and
the world by starting little churches all
did it over again a second time. As you
over Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and
know, it‟s a tedious, monotonous,
back there. And he had the Worth Bible
grueling (particularly in Texas heat) kind time with the doorman and my friend
of work. More often than not, when said he had a hard time with the
people hired people to do that, the doorman,” all this kind of information.
things ended up in gutters or in garbage It came back to me through my brother,
cans and that sort of thing. I think we so it was a very important kind of gauge.
were, in a sense, too religious to do it I was a printer‟s devil in letterpress
that way, and also we were kind of, to shops as a kid. I set type by hand and
some degree, supervised by my uncles melted down all this, you know, slag
and grandfather, who ran the print type and stuff like that. I could run a
shops that got us the jobs. Linotype machine, just a little bit. They
And you know, for kids, we did pretty were just beginning to train me a little bit
good at that. And later, when I was on that. I was in charge of melting down
running shows here at the Avalon, I had all of the cuts and recasting from those
my brother. He did all my canvassing little blotter paper molds with the casting
and poster posting and things like that. machine. I‟d make up the cuts, you
He was the only person I knew that know. They‟d get mailed to you in the
would do it in, essentially, an obsessive form of these paper molds, essentially,
kind of way, and it would get done and and then there was a way that you‟d
they wouldn‟t be in a dumpster mask up this thing on the casting
somewhere. He was the only person I machine. You would pour the hot lead
could count on to get an ulcer doin‟ it, and antimony into it. I always had little
you know. I knew it would get taken care pits in my arms that would never heal,
of. because the metal blowback antimony is
pretty toxic stuff. And those casting
From a promotional stand point, and I
machines would regularly spew metal
think it‟s kind of central to the whole
back at you and stuff like that. And I
poster thing, kind of at the core of my
always had belt burns on my arms,
beliefs about promotion, that while the
because these big ol‟ presses that we‟d
first order of promotion is the word of
use for the advertiser newspapers and
mouth; the second order, the most
stuff were built out of cast iron; built in
intimate means of communicating an
1880s, but still running. The big drum
event to people, is through a handbill or
presses and newspaper presses were
broadside because, again, it‟s a one-on-
always breakin' down 'cause they had
one contact. It‟s a person saying, “Here
these big leather belts, and the most
take this flyer, be here or be square,” so
common thing that happened to them is
to speak. My brother, in those days,
that the leather belt would go and then
really was my main conduit of
my uncle would have to get in there and
information from the street. He was a
replace the leather belt or mend it or
very important gauge to me of how we
that sort of thing.
were coming across to the public.
Because, in the course of his travels all So that happened so frequently, he'd
over the Bay Area to put up the posters always leave the belt guards off, so as
and to hand out hand bills and leave not to have to be taking them on and off
stacks of hand bills, people talked to all the time. So if you weren‟t careful,
him. “Oh I went to that show and that you‟d walk into one of those belts. You‟d
guy sucked,” or, you know, “I had a hard be carrying a whole stack of posters or
handbills or something like that and just Michael Erlewine: What age were you
brush against one of those moving belts when you moved to Texas?
and it‟d burn your arm. I always had Chet Helms: Nine years old. I
streaks on my arms from, you know, considered myself into beat poetry and I
things like that. was writing poetry and doing my
Anyway, I spent a goodly time as a obligatory hitchhike from coast to coast
printer's devil. I always loved printing, … duty, to earn my stripes as a beatnik.
loved pretty much anything to do with "
books or typography. Of course, my Michael Erlewine: And when did you
uncle used to get all these sample come to San Francisco?
books, and he‟d get so many of them,
he‟d toss them in the garbage. There Chet Helms: I came back here in 1962,
were typography or big, thick books of and I guess I was about 19 or 20.
stock cuts that you could buy little Michael Erlewine: You came to this
iconographic things, you know, printed area?
one time in a big catalog book. You
could order the little paper mats to cast Chet Helms: To San Francisco, right.
these things from. And I‟d always haul Why I came to San Francisco is …
these things out of the garbage. I was actually I think you made reference to
always fascinated by them, and I‟d hang this yourself about coming to Venice as
on to them. a beatnik wannabe, but that was a major
motivating factor for me. I considered
Michael Erlewine: Did you pour some myself into beat poetry and I was writing
of them, make them? poetry and doing my obligatory hitchhike
Chet Helms: Yeah, yeah, from coast to coast … duty, to earn my
stripes as a beatnik. I had read
Michael Erlewine: Oh, these weren‟t somewhere that a lot of beatniks got
the molds? their mail on the bulletin board at City
Chet Helms: These weren‟t the molds. Lights Books, so when I got to San
Francisco, that became my mail drop,
Michael Erlewine: I see.
and it probably was for about five years
Chet Helms: You would order it from … several years anyway.
the company and they would mail you
Actually it was my primary mail drop for
this kind of a papier-mâché mold, some
about three years, and as I had offices
kind of wet paper that was formed over
and things like that, then of course I was
it and then became the mold for it.
getting my mail there, But you know, for
I first came to California in 1962, for a a good five years there were still letters
couple of reasons - really three coming from friends, who were traveling
immediate reasons. One was that I was different parts of the world, that would
born in California and I had a lot of be posted on the board at City Lights.
idyllic memories of my childhood, when
So one reason was to kind of regain my
my father was alive. I wasn‟t happy
childhood, in a sense. I had wonderful
about moving to Texas at the time that
we did. memories of California as a child and so
that was part of the motivation. Part of
the motivation was to come to beatnik course.” It was mostly English and math
Mecca, you know. classes that I got advanced standing in.
Michael Erlewine: I remember that. And they said, “But you qualify for plan
two,” which is a liberal-arts tutorial
Chet Helms: City Lights Bookstore, the
program, where I‟d have two years of
Co-Existence Bagel Shop, North Beach,
fairly conventional classes, although
and the Coffee Gallery, and all these
they were structured for all the students
places I had heard of.
in the plan-two program. Then I‟d have
Michael Erlewine: Right. two years where I would pick my own
Chet Helms: Then the other specific fields of study and I‟d have a mentor,
instance was a dear friend of mine, a you know, on the faculty. And I could
graduate student at the university, was pretty much study anything in classroom
in the process of getting married and he or outside classroom, at my leisure. And
was marrying a woman named Sandy frankly, I think I needed the structure
Breuden ****??. She and David and discipline of the conventional
Frieberg, who later played bass with college education, but I elected to go
Quicksilver Messenger Service and was into plan two and, as I joke about it, I
with Jefferson Starship. Anyway, David kind of "plan two‟d" right out of college,
Frieberg and she and a guy with a long you know? Heh, I‟ll get to that one of
Polish name that I could never these days, I "plan to."
pronounce … the three of them had set Michael Erlewine: Right
out as mendicant folk singers for peace.
Chet Helms: But I think that probably
And they essentially were going on a
the main factor in my dropping out of
peace journey to Moscow. They started
college was just because with this kind
with no money, just hitchhiking, and got
of fundamentalist background, I was so
as far as Mexico City. They were
musically and socially and artistically
deported from Mexico as 'communistas',
deprived in a lot of ways that, when I
as communists. They weren‟t
went to college, I had a lot of things to
communists, but they were deported to
catch up to. I‟d never dated and I‟d
the nearest Mexican consulate, which
never had a girlfriend, you know. I‟d had
happened to be in Austin, Texas. So I
a few odd beers here and there, but I
was at the University of Texas at the
was from a teetotalling family, so it was
time.
all very secretive, when I had done it. I
Michael Erlewine: What were you just stumbled upon flats of peyote buds,
studying? being sold as decorative cactus…
Chet Helms: I went originally as a math Michael Erlewine: No pot?
major, but within about three weeks of
Chet Helms: Oh, not at all. Actually pot
being in school, they came to me and
was a relative rarity, in general, then. My
said, “Well, you did very well on the I.Q.
first psychedelic actually was in ‟61 or
test; you did very well on your SATs;
‟62 … I guess it was actually in ‟61. One
you kind of aced the University of Texas
of my roommates was a graduate
entrance exam … we‟re givin‟ you credit
for this course and this course and this student. I was an undergraduate. I don‟t
know why, but my pals were all
graduate students. You know, the guys I
hung out with, my roommates, the pronged chandelier, and when I first
people that I was involved with. Anyway, started coming on to it, it seemed like it
one roommate was an anthropologist or just grabbing me … hands reaching
in the anthropology department, and he forward …
had gone to Mexico to study the peyote Michael Erlewine: I had a tiger on the
ceremonies of the Tarahumara Indians. wall; that was my first one too. When did
Michael Erlewine: Right, you first have acid?
Chet Helms: And, as an official part of Chet Helms: 1964.
the university anthropological project, so Michael Erlewine: At what part of the
he had gone and sat in on a lot of these year?
sessions. He had never consumed it,
but took notes, you know, went into the Chet Helms: Probably sometime in … I
sweat lodges while they took these would guess it was probably March or
things, and kept notes, and so on. He April.
was wandering with his girlfriend in a Michael Erlewine: Same for me, May of
nursery in San Antonio, Texas and just 1964 in Berkeley.
stumbled upon flats of peyote buds,
being sold as decorative cactus. Chet Helms: Yeah it was right about
that time. I had been a speed freak. I
Michael Erlewine: Wow. had been shootin‟ speed and so on and
Chet Helms: And they realized what so forth, so somebody gave me a sugar
they were, because he had seen them cube.
in Mexico. So he bought a couple of Michael Erlewine: Oh yeah.
flats and brought them home and ate
five or six raw peyote buds. Chet Helms: And I said I‟d heard about
LSD, but just very peripherally, you
Michael Erlewine: That‟ll do it. know, and they showed me this sugar
Chet Helms: And we saw that he had a cube and I said, “What‟s that?” and they
good time, though he was nauseous said, “It‟s LSD,” and I said, “Well what‟s
and what not, and that he didn‟t seem to it like?” They said, “Oh, it‟s like speed,”
suffer from it, certainly not on a you know … "
permanent basis at all, you know. So Michael Erlewine: [Laughs].
about two weeks later, I did the same,
but interesting ... that was totally Chet Helms: You know, without
unguided. Actually, everybody was hesitation, I just unwrapped the thing
asleep. The ones that were at home and popped it, you know, and so on. I
were asleep, and other folks were out. had a great trip, but had this enormous
And I ate six peyote buds, raw peyote apocalyptic heaven and hell vision,
buds, washed down with Coca-Cola. where I could see my one path going to
[Laughs]. destruction, if I continued to shoot speed
and live this life, and then I saw this
Michael Erlewine: Really. whole open horizon.
Chet Helms: Other than the chandelier Michael Erlewine: Isn‟t that wonderful?
trying to grab me a few times, it was a
pretty good trip. I had this kinda three- Chet Helms: Right.
Michael Erlewine: Isn‟t acid wonderful, Chet Helms: Oh yes.

what it was. Michael Erlewine: Certainly was strong
Chet Helms: It was. It was indeed, and when I took it.
I‟ll always believe that in the long haul in Chet Helms: Well see, I think … I tend
history, it was a very positive thing. to concur with Leary and Alpert, who
Michael Erlewine: Amen. pointed out early that they thought that
180 micrograms was a threshold dose;
Chet Helms: And it‟s sad to see how it‟s
that to get the benefit of an LSD
been demonized.
experience, you needed to take enough
Michael Erlewine: Sometimes I wonder that your body went into a total
if it‟s not the same anymore. I mean first catharsis. And they suggested, and it
of all, culturally we are not in the same was my experience, that if you took less
spot, so that it couldn‟t do the same than what they called a threshold dose,
exact thing, but we were coming out of which was capable of catapulting you
the '50s. into catharsis, certain things that
Chet Helms: Sure. bothered you, for instance, or perceived
fears or dangers or things like that, you
Michael Erlewine: Pretty repressed would end up just kind of grinding on
kind of. them, and that was always kind of my
Chet Helms: Sure, Sure. experience. And I think a lot of the bad
experiences that people have where
Michael Erlewine: Anyway. they say, “Oh, that LSD was with
Chet Helms: Well I think the LSD‟s the speed.” What I experience is that (I
same; I don‟t think there‟s any haven‟t taken LSD now in about 25
difference. There is a big difference … I years), but my experience back then
think where the biggest difference in was that if I took a low dose like 70-80
LSD consumption is in what they call mics, it was very much like speed. It just
'disco doses' or 'hippie doses'. Our kind of stimulated me, made me grind
hippie dose was usually 180-250 on things, but somehow at about 180
micrograms. That‟s what we were taking mics or above, there was some kind of a
on sugar cubes or tabs and things like full on emotional, physical catharsis that
that. happened.
Michael Erlewine: Right. Michael Erlewine: Right. Definitely
Chet Helms: The typical dose of LSD Chet Helms: That was very much of the
that a kid takes these days is about 80 level of almost like an electrical
micrograms. And I don‟t know if they still discharge. And I still kind of believe that
use those terms, but 10-15 years ago that‟s an accurate principle.
my kids and various people, they made Michael Erlewine: Certainly the first
a distinction between disco doses, time I took it was like a total catharsis, I
which was about 80 mics, and hippie mean I saw all of the heavens raining
doses, which was around 200 mics. blood … I had to die almost.
Michael Erlewine: The hippie dose was Chet Helms: Uhh huh.
a stronger dose.
Michael Erlewine: I didn‟t take it a ton Michael Erlewine: I interviewed Kelley,

of times. Was he on the scene before you? Or
how did you …
Chet Helms: Yeah.
Chet Helms: Yeah. Well, I don‟t know if
Michael Erlewine: I treated it very
he was on the scene before me, but we
religiously.
were, Ok.
Chet Helms: I probably, over that whole
Michael Erlewine: I‟m trying to
period, up thru the early „70s I would
understand how the scene arose …
say, I took LSD around 60 times, you
know 50-60 times. Chet Helms: Ok.
Michael Erlewine: That‟s more than I Chet Helms: From my viewpoint … I
did. realize it‟s my unique viewpoint.
Chet Helms: 50-60 times. I was never a Michael Erlewine: That‟s right.
believer in consciously going where Chet Helms: What happened to me
there was going to be a lot of people was, in early ‟64, several things
and a lot of activity. So I pretty much happened. One, I took LSD. Two, I met
always went to the woods or had a quiet the women who was to become my wife,
time in an apartment. and three, Luria Castell, who at a much
Michael Erlewine: I pretty much found later date was one of the founders of
a space to myself. It was never a party Family Dog with Alton Kelley, a man
atmosphere. named Jack Towle, and a woman name
Ellen Harmon. Anyway, her boyfriend at
Chet Helms: Right, exactly. The times I
the time was a man named David
had LSD in public situations, by and
Gregory, who was my best friend, and
large, with very few exceptions, were
we were speed freaks together,
times when I got dosed. And it was
basically. She wanted him to get off
usually some cute little chickadee, who
speed and she wanted me to get off
brought you a nice cold apple juice and
speed. She had a couple of women
you‟d been dancin‟ or smokin‟ pot
roommates. They were all state college
anyway, and you‟d go “gulp gulp gulp.”
students, I think, at the time. Terrence
Then, five minutes later you‟d say, “Oh
Hallinan, our present district attorney,
no, not again.” [Laughs].
was one of the residents of this house.
Michael Erlewine: Right. But anyway, Terrence was hardly ever
Chet Helms: Ah, I was never a believer there and I slept in his bed when he
in dosing people. wasn‟t around or on the couch when he
was.
Michael Erlewine: No, me neither.
And David slept with Luria. But
Chet Helms: Though I must own that I essentially, she and her girlfriends
kind of looked the other way when Kool- sometime early in ‟64 brought us into
Aid was brought in and things like that. I their house at 26 Genoa Place (SP?) in
just, you know, I never provided it to North Beach and basically fed us,
people, but on the other hand I didn‟t fucked us, massaged us, but wouldn‟t
look too carefully if it was being let us out of the house. They wouldn‟t let
provided.
us anywhere near speed, for which I am committee of Students for Direct Action,
eternally grateful. which later became S.D.S.
During the course of that, at Luria‟s, Michael Erlewine: Right.
there I met the woman who was to be Chet Helms: I was on the steering
my wife for six years, subsequently, committee, and it was kind of like they
Loraine Helms. So, many aspects … always said, “Oh yeah, you know, we‟re
and around that time, somewhere, I really bipartisan and here is our
think, I had already moved out of Luria‟s republican, you know. Talk to him,” you
again, when I took LSD, but it, that was know.
all kind of early in ‟64.
So, needless to say, over that kind of
But the other thing that happened was two-year span, my politics shifted, fairly
that The Beatles really hit big time. And
radically, leftward. Probably by the time I
Luria, myself, Terrence Hallinan, the dropped out of the university, I was
present district attorney here, all of us, Young People's Socialist League, if not
had been political activists. I had gotten worse. But [laughs] kind of Norman
my start in it … Actually I was a young Thomas socialist at the time. That‟s kind
republican in Texas, because my of where I was at, though I was very
stepfather was Korean and I was familiar with tract literature of the
appalled when I got to the University of socialist workers party, C.P. stuff and all
Texas and there were people… there that, as well. But I was a little closer, I
were black people who, in their think, to the Norman Thomas variety of
freshman western civ classes and socialists, kind of social democrats at
freshman English classes, were that point.
assigned to attend certain movies and
write reviews of them, but could not My step dad, as I said, was Korean and
perform that part of the requirement so I had experienced, not a huge
because the only two theatres in Austin amount, but a minimal amount of
that were playing these movies were racism, kind of first hand, because of the
both owned by ABC Paramount. They way people treated my dad and little
were both right across the street from kids on the street going, “Ack-ack-ak-
the campus and they didn‟t allow ack …Get the dirty Jap.” You know, stuff
Negroes. like that.
Michael Erlewine: Wow. I remember Michael Erlewine: God.
that time. Chet Helms: So it was something I was
Chet Helms: And so we picketed those conscious about, and I was a line
theatres for two years straight. captain on the steering Committee and
so on. And then I became … Before I
Michael Erlewine: Really. left Texas, I became part of the peace
Chet Helms: I pretty much began in my movement and the Vietnam movement,
first year in college there. I actually and the Vietnam War movement. In
worked on the John Tower and on the Texas they had just passed a treason
Goldwater campaign, as a young and sedition law. We all knew that the
republican. But I was on the steering first time it hit a federal court, it would
get tossed out, but nevertheless they
could arrest you in Texas for advocating they fell apart because there weren‟t
against the Vietnam War. It was enough real musicians in the construct.
considered sedition or treason by law Chet Helms: So, after one of these
there. And there were other things: attempts that kind of dissolved, a friend
people would throw full beer bottles at of mine came to me and said, “Look.
you or lit cigarettes, you know, just Over at 1090 Page Street there‟s a
people passing by in cars and bunch of musicians that live in that
sometimes they‟d get out of cars and try building, but there‟s also an old ballroom
to bully you and, you know, stuff like in the basement there, and the
that. And that was much more building‟s managed by Rodney Albin,
incendiary, actually, even then trying to Peter Albin's brother.” Peter later went
integrate the theatres. We did integrate on to become the bass player in Big
the theatres, by the way.
Brother. So I went to Rodney and ended
Michael Erlewine: Really. up, for I think it was 20 bucks or 25
bucks a week, we rented this ballroom,
Chet Helms: But how we did it was by
which could hold about maybe 250-300.
getting to Leonard Goldenson's rabbi.
I mean really crowded. It wasn‟t that
Leonard Goldenson was the head of
huge, but we started these open jam
ABC Paramount. It was after two years
sessions every Tuesday night, and with
of picketing and all kind of political
the idea of putting together a message
pressure. What finally turned the trick
band out of it, you know. And also think
was his rabbi [laughs] got him by the
that I thought that, if I surrounded myself
short hairs and told him you know that
with musicians, it would rub off, you
this wasn‟t right and so on. Anyway, the
know. And so we ran open jam sessions
big frustration at that time was the
there for several months and it started
getting any kind of socially progressive
from being about 30 musicians and
messages into any kind of mainstream
about maybe ten family members and
media. The only real viable route of
pals and hangers on. That equation
doing that at the time was some kind of
radically shifted, literally over four or five
confrontational demonstration, which
weeks, to where we had about, I don‟t
was always kind of presented in a sense
know, maybe 12 musicians and 75
in a negative context.
people that were friends and family and
Michael Erlewine: Right. hangers on or something. And it kind of
Chet Helms: A clash, you know. So started, in our opinion, getting away
when The Beatles came along, you from its original purpose. We weren‟t
know, and there was this kind of level of really trying to open a club, we were
double and triple entendre in the songs, trying to, you know, find a group of
and suddenly, "Oh!, that‟s the way you people who could all play together, so
do it." So a lot of people here in San we could create this band and spread
Francisco, politicos primarily, were the word to the world or whatever.
scrambling to put together message Michael Erlewine: Right.
bands. I participated in two or three of
Chet Helms: Kind of on that note. I was
those projects, but by and large they
were more motivation than raised to be an evangelist and I
probably still am, in my own way; I have
musicianship, you know? By and large,
the technique and the craft of offshore owners, and so on. And so he
evangelism. I just don‟t have the same would allow dogs, which, in an urban
content that I was given as a child to environment, a hard thing to find is a
promulgate, you know? So, out of that, place where you can rent an apartment
out of those jam sessions, came the where dogs are welcome. So that‟s why
band Big Brother and the Holding there were so many dogs in the Dog
Company and I became their manager. House. That‟s because he would allow
them as a landlord and so we kind of
Family Dog
aggregated - all these people who had
One of the other things that happened in dogs. And there were a lot of dogs in
the meantime was that Luria Castell and that house, and so many dogs that
Jack Towle, Ellen Harmon, and Alton that‟s kind of how it came to be referred
Kelley … They all lived in a run down to is the “Dog House.” The dogs kind of
house, euphemistically referred to as [laughs] ran as a pack and kind of ran
the “Dog House” over on Pine Street. the show in a lot of ways with
And we had all been kind of grass everybody.
dealers, basically, but not a lot of people
Michael Erlewine: Right.
were trying to legitimize their lives trying
to do something on the straight side of Chet Helms: They had accumulated a
things. certain amount of capital. They didn‟t
want to be dealing grass anymore; they
And so these folks … Bill Ham who later
wanted to do something different, I
went on to be one of the primary light
realize you may wish to edit some of
show performers, and, in many ways,
this.
largely invented that whole technique.
He wasn‟t the only one, or necessarily Michael Erlewine: Well you‟ll get to see
even the first one, but he was the guy I it all.
think that really brought it up to being a Chet Helms: Yeah.
real masterful thing. Anyway, he was
into all these Japanese marital arts. He Chet Helms: And they were thrashing
was highly trained in Kendo, in around for an idea of something to do
particular, and wore long black robes with their capital, some way to legitimize
and had a long black beard and long what they were doing, to be in a
black hair, at the time. He always had legitimate business as opposed to
those practice swords, the wooden contraband.
practice swords, and so on. But through And one of the first ideas, according to a
that connection, he had become the … friend of mine, Philip Hammond, who did
He worked for a Japanese property live in that house and who had dogs and
management company that owned four was part of that crowd. He claims that at
Victorian houses in that same block on the kitchen table, there, the name
Pine Street, and he actually still lives in Family Dog came from (according to
one of them, all these many years later. him) the fact that they had come up with
But he maintained four houses. He had this idea at one point of doing a pet
big dogs himself and didn‟t mind dogs cemetery to essentially get money from
and these were very run down the idle rich, the people who could afford
properties that he was managing for to indulge their deceased animals in a
formal burial, you know, ceremony and paid, they had rights -- that sort of thing.
all that stuff. It created kind of some liabilities for us
by taking their money.
Chet Helms: Somewhere in that period
of time, they heard about and decided to And so eventually it started attracting a
attend the jam sessions I was doing at wider and wider circle, and then, kind of
1090 Page Street. They came over toward the end there, it was just kind of
there and there were about 300 people a bunch of drunk and unrelated-to-that-
there and it was wall to wall, at a time scene kids, you know, that would show
when pot was extremely illegal, and they up. I showed up at the door one day and
did put people in jail for one joint and because I had long hair, these guys
that sort of thing. People were smoking were giving me a hard time, you know,
pot pretty freely and underage people and so I just said, “Look, you know, I bet
were drinking red wine and you know it you come here for the jam sessions?”
was quite a scene. And they came there “Yeah what‟s it to ya?” you know? I said,
and they saw this thing and that was “Well what it is to me is, you know, I do
where … I read an interview and I‟ve this for free, for love, and you‟re a bunch
been trying to find it since. It may be in of drunken assholes, you know, and I‟m
Derek Taylor‟s book. I am not sure, but not doin‟ it for you, so there won't be a
anyway, I saw an interview once with jam session tonight, or ever again, you
Luria Castell in which she said: "Yeah, know. You finished it.” [Laughs].
we went to this jam session at 1090 And so that was kind of the end of it, but
Page Street and we saw what was out of that came Big Brother and the
happening there, and we said, 'Yeah, Holding Company, and I became their
this is what we want to do.'” manager. And part of the context that
So, the thing was beginning to get kind somehow gets lost, mainly because, at
of unwieldy, with the number of non- an advanced age, I find most of us,
performers attending it and so on. So at including myself, never used to drink.
a point, I decided that I would But now, partially because of heart
discourage people from coming by problems, I drink a couple glasses of red
charging money. So, we charged fifty wine a day. I never really cared for the
cents, which you know doesn‟t sound sensation of being drunk, you know, I
like a lot now, but it was a fair amount always liked things that woke me up, or,
then. There were several places where consequently, the speedy things I took
you could get a meal for fifty cents. So like coke or speed or pot or
that was kind of the context of it then. psychedelics, something like that --
something that caused your mind to be
more active, rather than less active. I
Anyway, I started charging fifty cents never liked downers, never liked
and, foolishly, the initial idea was to get barbiturates or heroin or smack or any
people to stop coming in such large of those things.
numbers, but it kind of had the opposite
effect. All of the sudden, it was kind of
“the place to be.” And frankly, it Chet Helms: Never liked things that
generated a lot of problems for us, took you in that depressing sort of way.
because suddenly they felt they had Something that people don‟t understand
very often anymore about the Avalon Chet Helms: This was in 1965 and this
Ballroom and the Fillmore Auditorium is also came out of all of Luria's, but of all
that neither the Avalon nor the Fillmore of our political connections, probably the
served alcohol, during that whole strongest and most left-oriented union
period. here was the longshoreman union. And
so, the first three Family Dog dances
Michael Erlewine: And you didn‟t let
were done in the Longshoreman's Hall,
people bring it in.
in North Beach, in the Fisherman's
Chet Helms: Well, people did sneak it Wharf area. It's the only domed building
in, but we confiscated it, if they were too up there -- a geodesic dome. The
open about it. And frankly, we were acoustics were horrible, have always
pretty militantly anti-alcohol; most of us been horrible, still are horrible, mainly
were, at the time. We kind of were because „cause it is a dome. And not
against alcohol, you know, because of only that, it's like a sheet-metal dome,
what we‟d seen it do to the parental the resonance of all the panels and
generation. stuff.
Michael Erlewine: You bet. Michael Erlewine: Right.
Chet Helms: Here you‟ve got a Chet Helms: Out of the inspiration they
generation of young bands, with long got out of the jam sessions, they started
hair, that are disavowing alcohol and doing rock n' roll shows, although I don't
disallowing tobacco, to some degree, think they thought of it as doing rock n'
but alcohol was a large part of our focus roll shows, I think they literally thought of
at that time. So the main venues for it as doing a rent party, more than
bands to play were places that sold anything else. It was more of that
alcohol, so they didn‟t want us there, nature. And so they did it in
„cause we‟re telling people “Don‟t drink.” Longshoreman's Hall and they had the
Michael Erlewine: Right. Jefferson Airplane, and the Great
Society and the Loading Zone, and I'm
Chet Helms: So, it kind of in the end, trying to think whether it was ... I think
fell on people like myself and my the Lovin' Spoonful might have been on
partner, John Carpenter, who managed that. I think it was at a time when the
the Great Society featuring Grace Slick, Lovin' Spoonful had just had a big hit.
and I had Big Brother at the time. We Anyway, they had one major out-of-town
were partners and it kind of fell on band as kind of the headliner.
people like us, or in that kind of role, to
create the venues that would showcase And I brought the first strobe, I would
our bands. Because there was a limited say, ever, to rock n‟ roll. Actually that
number of prom parties and bar was the first to a formal rock n‟ roll thing.
mitzvahs and birthday parties and stuff The strobe that I brought was built by a
that you could play, you know. And we man named Don Buchla, who invented
couldn‟t get in to the conventional club some of the first music synthesizers, the
or lounge circuit because of the anti- Buchla Synthesizer, and he had
alcohol stand. And the four people who recreated these strobes based on
started the Family Dog … military strobes that had been used on
planes to distract pilots in dog fights,
you know. That's where the strobe came at that first Family Dog dance. But I
from. It was invented originally as a think what was really significant and
weapon. It would produce intense bursts important about that first Family Dog
of light when you were in a dogfight in dance at the Longshoreman's was pure
the air. They would set off these blasts recognition. There were about twelve
of light in the opposing pilot's eyes, hundred people there, and you walked
essentially blinding him. And that was in there and everyone, for lack of a
what it was invented for originally, but better term, was in their hippie drag.
Buchla somewhere or another found You know, they were in their thrift-shop
them. clothes or their hair was long or they
were dressed like a cowboy or they
Also, sometime in that same year, I
were dressed like a river-boat gambler
think it was the Limelighters (or one of
or they were dressed like a gypsy, or,
those kind of theatrical groups) had
you know, that sort of thing. By and
done the play “Pantacles,” by Michele
large, cowboys and Indians was the kind
De Gelderoff (SP?), and they had done
of motif that most American hippies
a little Chaplin-esque bit with the strobe.
were into. European hippies were
That was the first time I ever saw a
gypsies. That was the romantic free
strobe used in a theatrical thing, to get
spirit iconography or whatever. But
that kind of movie-like stop action. But
anyway, I remember walkin' into that
anyway, Ramone Sindair (SP?) worked
first Family Dog dance and seeing
at the San Francisco Tape Music Center
twelve hundred people that I recognized
and was a good friend of mine and he
instantly were just like me. They were
had shown me this strobe. So I had
my kind.
asked him if I could borrow it and take it
to this first Family Dog dance, which I And as opposed to feeling isolated,
did. I had also borrowed it from him and suddenly I felt part of a much larger
taken it to the Open Theatre in Berkley community and I remember a sense of
previously to that, for a Big Brother and sanctuary and a sense of relief, like,
the Holding Company gig that we did at "there's twelve hundred people, there's
the Open Theatre and it's interesting to not a facility large enough for us, for
me because one of the women who... them to arrest us all," you know. And
Two brothers and their wives kind of that was a real threat at the time. There
opened the Open Theatre originally, the was somehow strength in numbers and
Jacquepette Family (SP?). And one of in this pure recognition, you know.
them, I can't remember her first name, They did three shows in the
I've heard, I've seen in print … I've been Longshoreman's Hall in the fall of '65.
told by a couple of people that she now And then Luria, with other partners, did
claims that she brought the first strobe two subsequent Family Dog shows in
too... but she is talking about the strobe the "California Hall"; in the spring of '66 I
that I had asked Ramone Sindair (SP) to guess it was. No, actually it couldn't
bring to this event, you know, which he have been in the spring, because we did
did, and so on. But at any event, it's not our... John and I did our first show in the
a big deal, but I think I was probably the Fillmore on February 19th, so it must
first person who brought a strobe light to have been... I guess the California Hall
one of those events, and I brought one events must have been in the fall and
winter, also. Anyway, all together they Essentially, what we were bringing to
did five shows, which I would describe the table was our two bands, our
as critical successes and financial contribution to the labor, and this date
disasters, basically. At that juncture, that we had with the Jefferson Airplane.
three of them, besides Luria, decided to So, the bottom line was that we agreed
take off to Mexico; they had a lot of bills, to do some shows as Family Dog with
were under a lot of financial stress, and Luria, utilizing our bands, utilizing the
so and so forth. John Carpenter and I, Charlatans, who were associated with
begin again dealing with this whole the Family Dog people at that point,
issue of "Where do our bands play?" We although they were very close friends
went to Luria and said, "Look if you do with ours as well. At least, at the
another Family Dog dance, our bands outside, utilizing our one committed date
would, you know, like to play and will from the Jefferson Airplane to kind of
play for reasonable money," and so and launch the thing. And I had about two
so forth. " hundred and fifty dollars, which was my
escape money and my life savings really
And even if we don't do something with
at that point. So I gave that to Luria to
you, we're gonna promote shows
tie down these dates at the California
because we've arrived at the conclusion
Hall.
that that‟s the only way our band are
going to get over the... You know, we A couple weeks went by and I hadn't
can't seem to get, um, jobs in the clubs heard from Luria. Then I get a call one
or in the lounges, that sort of thing." And day from one of her roommates saying
so she said, "Well, you know, there that, "Well, Luria asked me to call you
really isn't a Family Dog right now. The and tell you that she took off for Mexico
other guys have gone to Mexico. It's just today, and that she knows she owes
me and there's no money. We owe you money but and she doesn't have the
money." She said, "I have talked to the money, but left you some antique
German American Association in furniture. Come get it," you know. So I
California Hall and I have put some went over and it was a nice antique bed
tentative holds on dates with them, but I and stuff, but that wasn't what I needed
haven't been able to pay the deposits on or wanted. I didn't need to buy a bed for
the dates, and so they may or may not two hundred and fifty bucks, even if it
be held." was beautiful antique carved wood and
all that.
And one of the things that John and I
had is that we had a committed date So I did get the bed, so and so forth, but
from the Jefferson Airplane, and they John and I are just sort of in a quandary.
were the only local band at that point "What do we do now?" And I called the
that was, in any sense, bankable. They German American Association and she
had the image and the reputation that had not put up the deposit and so on,
their gigs paid for themselves. It was and so we really didn't quite know what
something that was bankable enough to do. So my partner John Carpenter
that you could go to a banker or a happened to know Bill Graham. Now Bill
money person, and people would have Graham was nominally producer of the
a fair assurance that they were gonna S.F. Mime Troop and essentially what
get their money and so and so forth. he was a fundraiser. He was an arm
twister, had good relations with William Art Institute, students at City College
C??? (SP), the attorney that remained and the model's guild, which was
his attorney through most of his career. affiliated with the art institute. At the time
He had very close association with this all this came up, there was a real dearth
other Zellerbach family, who had of any kind of live music in the Bay
patronized the S.F. Mime Troup, but Area, including jazz. I guess the
kind of patronized things that Bill did, Matador was still kind of limping along ...
subsequently also. the Jazz Workshop was, but the big hot
menu here had been the Blackhawk,
In this capacity, as producer of the mime
and when it closed that was kind of the
troop, he had kind of engineered them,
death along that particular little epic of
a confrontation between them and the...
jazz, at the time.
They were kind of going down the tubes
and Graham kind of engineered a And so, you find in San Francisco at that
confrontation between the mime troop time, there was just no place. Other than
and the police in the park. And a lot of a movie, there was really no place to go
the objective of it, quite frankly, had to or see or do anything pretty much on a
do with stirring up a lot of controversy weekend. So there was kind of a party
and therefore getting contributions, you circuit and it was not unusual to go to
know, support contributions, to the mime maybe 10-12 parties over the course of
troop. He did this big benefit, and John one weekend. You'd go to this party and
Handy was about as big a jazz star as they'd say, "Oh well we just came from
you can imagine at the time. And so he over there. It was pretty cool, and the
did this benefit in which John Handy food over there is like this, and they've
was his headliner and he had way too got booze at this one." And it was pretty
much stuff on it. Frankly, I didn't think he much all recorded music. It wasn't live
knew a whole lot about organizing it at music, but that was kind of the
that point. He put way too many acts on happenings. That's what people did on
the bill and that sort of thing. And he did the weekend.
it in a big warehouse south of Market And this whole scene kind of came out
Street on Menn Street (SP?). He raised of, what I would say, kind of an
a bunch of money for them. And I give extended party circuit of probably fifteen
Graham credit for learning the lessons, hundred, two thousand people, that kind
as it were, but what was clear to him, I'm of knew each other.
sure, at that event, was that his head
liner was the Jefferson Airplane and not And there were people that you'd
John Handy. That's who people came regularly see in that party circuit on the
there to see. weekend. You'd go to three or four
parties a night. Just go from one place
And he had them in some minor billing, to another, and sometimes all night, you
scrawled on the thing and also it's know. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, that
interesting because this was such a kind of thing.
small scene. This whole scene was
really built out of a kind of roving party So the Family Dog people understood
circuit, which had a lot to do with that this whole thing was kind of a very
students at San Francisco State nascent, a very beginning, a very
College, students at the San Francisco embryonic thing and this community
was very connected. Before Graham did Kelley and Luria, "you know, well, where
this benefit, they learned that he was would you do this thing?" And they,
planning on doing something and they being the gullible [laughs] innocents that
realized that his date, though he had no they were, they said, "Oh well, over at
bookings done at that point, they the Fillmore Auditorium. You know. It's
realized that the date he had chosen fell like $65 bucks a night or $500 a month
on the date when they had the Mothers to get the lease on it." So at the juncture
of Invention at the Longshoreman's Hall, where John and I had just learned that
which was I think the second of the first Luria had taken off to Mexico and that
three Family Dog dances there. So Luria she had not firmed up the date at the
Castell and Alton Kelley went to Bill California Hall, we had already begun to
Graham in his capacity as the producer make some commitments to people like
of the mime troop, and said, "Look, you the Paul Buttefield Blues Band and
know we love the mime troop. We would different other people.
love to help in any way we can. We And suddenly, we didn't have a venue.
would even produce a benefit for them. Well, one night Bill Graham was doing
We want no money for it, but we would his second mime troop benefit, but this
put in all the labor, do all the time, it was, "Oh... wonder of wonders,"
organization of it, just for lovin' the mime of all places, in the Fillmore Auditorium!
troop. And the only thing we would want [Laughs]. So, John Carpenter knew
out of it was credit for having produced Graham. I didn't, but we went over to
it," you know. The first thing they asked that mime troop benefit, paid to get in,
him was to differ his date by at least a I'm pretty sure, and I met Bill Graham for
week, so that in this very embryonic the first time at the coke bar in the old
scene they didn't dilute the market on a Fillmore.
given weekend such that neither one of
them made it. John and I, as we had an interest in
exposing our bands, went to Graham
Well Graham was not... In that regard, and basically said, "If you do another
his first thought was not co-operation. It mime troop benefit, you know, our
was always competition. So it was kind bands would volunteer their services.
of like, "Oh no. I'm not movin' my date," We'd like to be on the bill.” And just in
and so on. the course of talking to him about that,
And probably had he moved his date, we ended up kind of telling him what we
they probably would have made money had been doing with Luria, that we had
on the Mother's show, and it would have intended to do a series of shows with
been a more viable entity and he Luria as Family Dog, and that we had
probably would have done just as well this date on the Jefferson Airplane
the following week, because he didn't confirmed. Not us specifically, but we
have his acts set at that point. But he had them and their manager had agreed
dug in his heels, "No, I'm not movin‟," to have them play a date for us. I had a
you know. Kind of a "Fuck you, I was set figure.
here first!" kind of thing. He, having succeeded with Jefferson
But in the course of them offering to do Airplane almost immediately before that,
a benefit for the mime troop, he asked that was a big calling card I would say
for us. Plus, we had two bands that Chet Helms: So we had an old-
were beginning to get a little bit of a fashioned conference call like, "Here,
name, at least in the underground, and you talk to him for awhile," you know,
could be added to the bill for no charge, [laughs] between John and I and Bill
as it were. And just a lot of kind of Graham. And so, the three subsequent
thinking out loud you know that went on, shows we did in there, we paid certain
and Bill was saying, "Well, the lease on flat fees and then Bill Graham got 7% of
this place is only $500 a month, but I net, you know. And altogether, we did
don't know. It would take so many four shows. It never worked out to be
shows a month. I don't know if I can do exactly on alternate weekends, because
more than one or two a month,“ you he would kind of call us at the last
know and so and so forth. minute and say, "Oh, well, I've got this
or that or the other happening, and I'm
But anyway, the long and short of it is
sorry but you can't have that date. You'll
John and I ended up making a
have to move over to this date.” So, you
handshake deal with him to do shows in
know, in about three months time we did
there on alternate weekends with him
four shows, or in two and a half months
and that we would do it under the Family
time, we did four shows, or something
Dog name. He said, "What name would
like that. We did four shows.
you do it under?" "Family Dog, I guess.
That's what we were just doin'." I really Michael Erlewine: Now what about the
honestly didn't give it a lot of thought. history of the advertising - was it
We had planned to do these Family Dog handbills, fliers?
shows with Luria, so we just said, "Well, Chet Helms: Ok, Wes Wilson was my
Family Dog, I guess," you know. So best friend at the time.
anyway, he said, "Fine," and our initial
deal with Bill was that he would put up Michael Erlewine: Really, are you still
all the money; he would put up the hall, friends with him?
the security, and all that, and, Chet Helms: Yeah, after a fashion.
essentially, that we would give him 50%,
after we paid the bands and paid the Chet Helms: But anyway, he was my
rude expenses. And so that show was best friend at the time. He was not an
successful. artist; he was a printer.
We did that show and, after the show Michael Erlewine: That's what I
we realized that Bill had not lifted a understand.
finger, had not put up a dime, and so on. Chet Helms: And that was our
Essentially we had taken all the risks, connection. I came out of the print
done all the work, you know ... provided trades; he was a printer. His wife and
the Jefferson Airplane, the date we had my wife were best friends.
with the Airplane for the deal and
everything, and then we paid certain of Michael Erlewine: Really.
his basic expenses and then he took Chet Helms: They both went to state
half, you know. college. His wife was Alva Bessie's
Michael Erlewine: Wow! daughter, who was one of the *******
(not sure if black bulb should be
capitalized and/or how the screenwriter
fits in IE) ****** black bulb, and named Tony Rosenwall took that
Hollywood screenwriters. photograph.
And he was a C.P. member, and so and But anyway, there's just a funny
so forth. She had grown up here locally; photograph of myself and my, soon-to-
Alva Bessie lived and died here. And the be wife in an apartment I had on Pierce
first poster that Wes had done, and this Street. I mean we had no money, so
was done... Have you seen the 'Be there was like essentially a double
Aware' poster that Wes did? mattress there with some covering on it
and a crate with a lamp, you know.
Michael Erlewine: Yes
Michael Erlewine: We all did that,
Chet Helms: Ok, that was the first
right?
poster, to my knowledge, that he ever
did. Chet Helms: And a bare bulb with one
of those Japanese paper lanterns
Michael Erlewine: I think it was his first
around it, but it's an interesting kind of
poster.
surreal photograph on there.
Chet Helms: And that was totally
Michael Erlewine: I'd love to see it.
graphic arts; there was no drawing in it.
Chet Helms: In fact, I think there may
even be two photographs on there, now
Chet Helms: It's all graphic technique. that I think about it. It's hard to
Michael Erlewine: Posters, right. remember.
Chet Helms: Right. Coming from Michael Erlewine: So Wes did that.
someone out of the printing trade, you Chet Helms: So Wes did that. And
know, essentially. And I always liked again it was pretty much straight,
that poster a great deal. graphic technique...
Michael Erlewine: It was beautiful. Michael Erlewine: No drawing in it.
Chet Helms: And it's interesting, Chet Helms: Set type and he had a...
because he's gone pretty right wing, in There was kind of a little starburst cut
terms of politics, very homophobic. Very that he had put in and so on. And when
anti feminism, although that may be we got married, which was December of
because he had three very strong '65 … actually Peter Albin got married in
daughters, but I don't know, [Laughs] some other part of the city on the same
from a previous marriage he had. He's day. Peter Albin from Big Brother. But
got children by his present wife. Three anyway, the Charlatans played and J.C.
very strong adult daughters. Let's see... Boroughs, who was this black
The first rock n‟ roll thing he did was my harmonica player that used to hang out
wedding announcement. I've been trying in North Beach, who wrote 'Ballin' the
forever to remember who took the Jack', which was the biggest hit of 1946.
photograph that he used. Someone took And he had been kind of reduced to...
this beautiful ... I actually ... now that I Well, he was an alcoholic, and he was
think about it, I think I do know who took on the street a lot in North Beach, and
that photograph. I think a photographer he still played the harp real fine and
played the bones.
And essentially, he was a guy that for a anyway, he met Ginsburg right in that
bottle of Ripple or something of that period of time. Ginsburg, I think, stayed
order, you could get him goin', you there for three weeks and then left with
know, and rev his engine up, so to Peter Orlovsky, breaking Bob Levine's
speak, and he'd play. And so, on my heart, so and so forth. But then that's
wedding, I actually paid him to come do how Peter Orlovsky and Ginsburg got
this thing and play. And I don't think I together, right around that time.
paid the Charlatans. I think they just And then, the next kind of big event, I
came and played. would say, was the Trips Festival, which
Michael Erlewine: And Wes did the started... One of the local events that
paper for that. had affected everything, including
posters, for that matter, really, was the
Chet Helms: And Wes did the
American Needs Indians Sensorium. It
announcement for it. But it was of all of
that era. I would say other than the was created by an architect named Zack
Stewart and then Stuart Brand, who
Family Dog shows, it was probably the
went on to create the Whole Earth
biggest rock n‟ roll event to that point.
Magazine, and so forth. There's a
We had about 800 people.
wonderful article by Brand published in
Michael Erlewine: Wow, really. 1995 in Time Magazine called "How the
Chet Helms: And it was in a studio that Hippies Invented the Internet." And it's a
had been an old meeting hall of some brilliant article and it makes a very good
kind, some kind of Order of the Eastern case, you know.
Star or something like that. But it was a [Spring 1995 Special Issue, "We Owe It
place called File Building out on Fulsom All to the Hippies," by Stewart Brand]
and 24th Street, I think it is, and Bob
Michael Erlewine: Did someone do a
Levine was a painter here, a beatnik
poster for the 'America Needs Indians'
painter. Bob Levine's lover and live-in
thing?
boyfriend was the poet Peter Orlovsky.
Chet Helms: Yes they did.
Michael Erlewine: Oh really.
Michael Erlewine: Who did it?
Chet Helms: And at, right about the
same time as my wedding, right in that Chet Helms: Quite honestly, I don't
little window of time there, Allen know, but it was a big... on brown,
Ginsburg came to Bob Levine's studio. almost a brown construction paper and
Bob was gay also. Bob had been my it was almost full human size.
friend and had provided the studio Michael Erlewine: Oh really.
space for me to do my wedding in. But
anyway, I had met Peter Orlovsky there Chet Helms: And it was flour-pasted up,
a couple of times. Very striking looking. I you know. It was posted in that way.
guess what you would say, a 'beautiful Michael Erlewine: Hmm, I don't think
guy', just really strikingly handsome. I've seen it.
I mean, I had extremely long hair, but Chet Helms: I always kind of confuse it
Peter Orlovsky literally had hair, blonde and the one percent free thing, cause
hair, down to his knees. I mean, he had they were similar, the big ones anyway,
let it grow and it was beautiful. But
were similar in size and applied with Michael Erlewine: Do you remember,
wheat paste, you know, in the traditional in the Midwest, I mean this was
kind of thing. happening all across the country, the
whole idea of 'events' and 'happenings'
'American Needs Indians' -- We talked
and remember 'Once Music' .... John
at that time about happenings and we
Cage and crew.
talked about an environmental theatre, a
term that would be misunderstood these Chet Helms: Yeah, John Cage was a
days, but the idea of environmental big deal here. And we went to all of his
theatre was that by tailoring or things. And we read all of his books, and
customizing an environment, that you he was…
could have a desired emotional output. Michael Erlewine: Right, Bob Ashley.
Michael Erlewine: Like the 'Living Do you know Bob Ashley or George
Theatre'? That kind of thing? Cacioppo?
Chet Helms: No, not precisely. It was These were modern avant-garde
having more to do... I guess the electronic composers. Yeah, they'd have
paradigm of it, the local paradigm of it a piano piece where you played one
was this 'American Needs Indians note for hours. Things like that. And I
Sensorium.' The attempt, there, was lived in a house with some of them,
they'd have two or three big teepees in a except that I was more into regular
space. They'd have a 360 degree slide music -- blues and jazz. I really liked a
projection of Indian life on the little bit of it, but that was about it.
reservation in the Southwest. They'd Chet Helms: Yeah, right, right, exactly.
sometimes have an actual, depending
on where they did it, an actual campfire, Chet Helms: John Cage was kind of the
but there were certainly always odors of best of that genre, I think. And I went to
mesquite burning. There was always a several of his events, and so on. But a
constant drum track and you go in. very important institution here in San
Francisco, with respect to all of this
Michael Erlewine: Sage... movement, was the Tape Music Center
Chet Helms: Sage, and you could go in at 321 Divisidero. It was really out of
these teepees and it was essentially, that place that your strobes came, the
precisely what it described itself - it was Buchla synthesizer came, the liquid-light
a sensory. We talked in terms of projections in the form of Bill Ham, Tony
synesthesia. All theatrical experiences, Martin, and Elias Romero. Those were
the ultimate objective was synesthesia, the three first guys doing them and that
was the wedding of the senses, so that kind of all came out of that.
you had this total experience. And the Michael Erlewine: Oh, that sounds like
idea of environmental theatre was that a whole thing needs to be done on the
you... and I still use a lot of the things I light shows. Has anything been written
learned while I was thinking in that much about that?
framework... the difference between
high stages and low stages. They all Chet Helms: Not to any great extent.
have an impact on what people's There probably has... I can't remember
experience is. what her last name was, Pauline...
there's an electronic composer, Pauline
something or other, and then Mort pioneer the psychedelic style at some
Subotnick and Ramone Sindare (SP?). point. How did that really happen?
These were all electronic composers Chet Helms: So, essentially, Wes
and they were the core of... and Bucla Wilson came to... He was my poster
was kind of their tech guy. He was the artist and Bill saw and liked what he did,
guy who created all of the machines and so Bill started using him.
the strobes and so on. The Bucla
synthesizer was before Moog. And the Michael Erlewine: Was that a problem
Moog device, I think, was considerably for you?
more sophisticated, but Bucla, I think, Chet Helms: Actually, I didn't really give
really invented the first synthesizer. it a lot of thought, initially, that Bill
Michael Erlewine: I know that there Graham was using him. I mean, he was
are, before the regular Family Dog my best friend and it was more work for
posters there, what there's five or so Wes, you know. What did upset me
handbills for events. though, was when, though actually in
my opinion it was a very germinal event
Chet Helms: Well, there are five and very good thing in the long haul of
handbills, and then there were I think things, was when Bill basically said,
three or four... actually I guess just three "You can't do posters for Chet anymore.
big silk screens that Amy Magill did. I'm booking your time exclusively." And
That were to advertise the gave him an advance and a
Longshoreman's Hall dances. commitment to, you know, do posters
Chet Helms: I would say the Trips exclusively for him into the extended
Festival handbill was fairly significant, future.
but again, strictly graphic technique that
Michael Erlewine: Well sounds like
Wes did. him.
Michael Erlewine: Right. Chet Helms: And that was kind of the
Chet Helms: And then there were two... way Bill handled things.
Let's see, there was a Loading Zone Michael Erlewine: Right.
one that he did for the Open Theatre
and then there was one for Big Brother Chet Helms: And it kind of happened to
that he did for the Open Theatre, which me with the light shows too. What
was a photograph that I chose of a guy really... Bill's tendency was to get the
sitting on a bed of nails. Wes did this, same person and work them to death,
but again, strictly graphic technique. you know. And when I lost the
exclusivity of, or not even exclusivity,
Michael Erlewine: Right. but just the availability of Wes, that
Chet Helms: And it was at that show I threw me to opening it up to other
brought them, in my opinion, I brought people.
the first strobe to a rock n‟ roll event. Michael Erlewine: Who came in to fill
[Laughs]. that spot?
Michael Erlewine: Right. So how did Chet Helms: Yeah, the first were
Wes take off into his… He really did Stanley Mouse and Alton Kelley.
Michael Erlewine: Kelley had been part I was killing him because he works
of this, all this... during the day, but we were stayin' up
'till four or five o'clock in the morning
Chet Helms: And Kelley had been part
and he's asking me all this stuff, he
of it, from before.
wanted to know, you know. My problem
Michael Erlewine: Before you guys in terms of book things, though I have
even. done what I'm doing right now, kind of
Chet Helms: Well, before I got involved pretty freely allowed myself to be
directly with Family Dog. I was a friend interviewed over years.
and volunteer on those shows. I just Michael Erlewine: But I don't see this
wasn't a principle in it; I wasn't one of kind of detail written, maybe it exists, but
the four who had actual cash money out I haven't seen it.
of pocket into it.
Chet Helms: The people record
Michael Erlewine: I see. everything I say and then they kind of
Chet Helms: There was essentially a pick and choose and they use this little
large community of people who put element of it or that little element of it,
those things on, but they were the four but you‟re right it would be ... I think, I in
guys who put up the money. a sense, tell the most complete story of
it from a fairly central point of view. Well,
Michael Erlewine: Just an interjection in my own sort of way I like to put all the
again. Have you been working with little pieces together.
people to create a book of this kind of
stuff? I mean, your knowledge is so Michael Erlewine: You do. It's amazing.
encyclopedic about this scene. How has Chet. And I never had any training in it,
it been reported? What have you done but my dad was a sociologist and I think
to document this? that what's interesting is ... did you ever
Chet Helms: I haven't, aside from just see the movie 'Feed Your Head?"
kind of thousands of interviews. Well, Michael Erlewine: No.
I'm hoping to do that. I mean, I had,
Chet Helms: It was a twenty-minute
actually. What's been on my mind really
piece made by a local guy here, Bob
is… I *** (visited a friend?) ***** have a
Sarles. He made it for the "Let Me Take
friend visited for my 40th high school
You Higher" show that was at the Rock
reunion in Texas last year. He's got a
and Roll Hall of Fame. And what
little in-law apartment above a garage
happened in that is, by default, I
there and he's a fairly well off guy. He's
became the narrator of it because I was
a musician, and more than most
the only person there that did not talk
musicians who've ever asked me about
exclusively about myself.
this period, this guy has great questions,
really insightful questions. And he's Michael Erlewine: This is a good sign,
hammered me... right?
Michael Erlewine: Have you recorded Chet Helms: Actually, I think essentially
it? what we were saying was that it was a
boon to me in a way when Graham did
Chet Helms: No, we didn't, but while I
indeed book Wes' future output…
was there we spent three or four nights.
Michael Erlewine: Cause it made you Michael Erlewine: Oh, that's pretty
spread out. recent, then he's shown you what he's
doing.
Chet Helms: Yeah. It opened me up to
other possibilities. Stanley Mouse and Chet Helms: I actually probably haven't
then Alton Kelley were collaborating, seen too much. The last time I was up
and, frankly, I have to say Kelley there he was working, kind of reworking
couldn't draw for shit, at that time. And a lot of older collages ... scanning them.
frankly, Wes Wilson couldn't draw for Michael Erlewine: Like the Gaugain
shit at the beginning. I watched both of collage?
these guys become artists. Just as I
watched a lot of musicians who couldn't Chet Helms: I don't remember that one
really play become musicians. specifically.
Michael Erlewine: Huh! Mouse had a Michael Erlewine: Well, he's got many
long history of... of them right? Probably dozens of them.
Chet Helms: Yeah, Mouse was fairly Chet Helms: Yeah, yeah I'm sure he
accomplished at air brush and that sort does.
of thing, although compositionally I Michael Erlewine: Some of them are
always thought that, you know, Kelley really something.
had a lot going.
Chet Helms: Yeah, but I love his poster
Michael Erlewine: Still does. output. I mean, with typography he's the
Chet Helms: And that also Kelley was a best.
master collagist. In fact, that's all of the Michael Erlewine: I'm having him do
early stuff that he did was all collages. something for our poster site.
Michael Erlewine: Like David Singer is Chet Helms: Yeah.
now.
Michael Erlewine: He's one of the best.
Chet Helms: Yeah. The 'Summer of Love' was exquisite.
Michael Erlewine: Have you seen any Chet Helms: Yeah. That's a process
of Singer's recent collages? too. I mean, that started with an idea
Chet Helms: Quite honestly, I'm not as that I had that I gave to Jim Philips. Jim
keen on his collages right now. To me, Philips started working on it and then he
that's him going back to an older time. fell off a ladder and broke his hip. So
That's what he did, and, actually, my then the project went to David Singer.
first familiarity with his stuff was all Michael Erlewine: So is that how that
different colleges happened.
Michael Erlewine: What have you Chet Helms: That's how that went.
seen? Have you been to his house? I
mean recently? It would be hard to Michael Erlewine: Singer did a good
move the things I'm talking about. job.
Chet Helms: Oh, it's probably been 6 to Chet Helms: He did a wonderful job.
8 months since I've been over there. Yeah, I think that's a spectacular logo
for what it is.
Michael Erlewine: I can't believe how extensive and recognized career on the
good it is. East Coast before he came west. He
had done some shows of his paintings
Chet Helms: And he did one for a friend
in fairly major galleries back there. He
of mine. You know the flying monkey
had a portfolio of stuff that he brought to
one?
show me.
Chet Helms: About the only negative
Michael Erlewine: That's how you
feedback I have from that period is like
hooked up?
the Mystery Trend; they never miss the
opportunity to say I wouldn't hire them Chet Helms: Yeah, he came to me. I
and this and that and the other. He told think he may have ... he knew, I think,
us this and he told us that. I have a lot of Victor Moscoso, I believe.
respect for Ron Nagle and, particularly,
Michael Erlewine: Yeah, Victor kind of
for things he did after Mystery Trend. In chaperoned him a little bit.
Mystery Trend, they initially didn't do a
lot of their own material and that was a Chet Helms: Yeah, I think so.
kind of criteria for me. I wasn't interested Michael Erlewine: Did he have some
in booking cover bands and they did a paintings by that time?
lot of cover material initially. But I liked a
lot of the stuff that Ron did after that, like Chet Helms: Yeah, he did.
the "Do Wops.". Did you ever see that Michael Erlewine: What did you think
video, the 'Doo-Wop Diner'? That is … I of that?
mean it is almost a prescient, visionary
kind of thing of the way VH1 and all Chet Helms: I liked his paintings. I used
those things were handled. one of them, you know, as a Billboard.
The Family Dog is coming down to
Michael Erlewine: No. Cool, I'd like to earth. It was a big one. It started as a
see that. Now it's clear to me that I'm painting,
not going to be able to cover all the stuff
I want to, you know more than I Michael Erlewine: You mean the one
imagined. And I've been interviewing all that's called Billboard? I mean the
these other guys and believe me it's abstract one with the circle? Are we
quite different. So I'm going to ask you talking about the same piece?
just some things off the wall. Chet Helms: There's one that I literally
Chet Helms: Sure. used.
Michael Erlewine: What do you know, if Michael Erlewine: I thought a smaller

anything … can you remember about print was made of it. Right?
Bob Fried? I'm trying to build a Chet Helms: At the start it was a
biography and he did some beautiful painting, I believe. And then he made a
posters. Some of my very favorite smaller silk screen print of it and then I
posters. was at his studio one day.
Chet Helms: He did. You know, I loved Michael Erlewine: OK. That's the same
Bob and Penelope a lot. Bob was a one I'm talking about. Isn't that a
highly trained, both as a fine and a beautiful painting?
commercial artist, who had a fairly
Chet Helms: Early '69 or so. It's like you Chet Helms: That same image. We
were entering the earth's atmosphere posted for three months in eight rotating
from outer space and there was all locations.
these kind of, kind of clouds and… Michael Erlewine: And, I'm just curious,
Michael Erlewine: Isn't it beautiful, I did Bob get paid especially for that?
mean, I think that's a wonderful piece. Chet Helms: Yeah.
Chet Helms: It is. It is and at the time I Michael Erlewine: That's an
had just lost my permit at the Avalon outstanding image.
Ballroom and I was kind of in transition,
trying to get this new venue out at the Chet Helms: Yeah, yeah. He was paid
beach, but I needed and I was doin'... I for that.
did four shows that year in '69 in Chet Helms: Ok. We produced these
Winterland. Cause I didn't have a venue, beautiful, marvelous, partially
but I did four one-off shows in there. transparent, partially translucent,
And I wanted to keep the name Family partially opaque, marbled, and intense
Dog alive, because I knew I was going saturated color, and we had a whole
to open another venue somewhere, you scheme in mind for designing a
know, as soon as I found the place. turntable that would put a beam of light
Michael Erlewine: Right. through it so as you played the record,
you'd get a light show on the walls or
Chet Helms: So that was one of the ceiling, you know?
ways of keeping that name alive,
particularly as we were in negotiations Michael Erlewine: Right.
on this place at the beach. The political Chet Helms: But, also, they were just
set up … I knew I was going to get the beautiful things. You could hang one on
permits. They screwed over me so a thread of catgut or something on your
righteously on the Avalon permits, that window and just the light coming
the city fathers here knew that I was through made this beautiful marble
owed one, and I'd been pretty well thing.
assured by the L.A. outa (SP?)
administration that I would get a permit. Michael Erlewine: I never saw one.
Period. That they would see to it. And Chet Helms: At the time, my patent
they were good to their word in that way, attorney was a man named Robert
although I had to go out to the boonies Slick, who was Grace Slick's father-in-
[laughs] in a sense. But, anyway, I law, father of Darby Slick and Jerry
wanted to keep the name alive, so I did Slick. He's now deceased. May he rest
twenty-four billboards. in peace. He was a good man and a
Michael Erlewine: Wow! good friend, and he had taken it to a
certain point and I just ran out of money
Chet Helms: One image. and couldn't pursue it any further,
Michael Erlewine: Oh! It was that same because at that point I was battling the
image? city over my permits. I just needed all
my resources to fight that and sort of
had to pull back on a lot a R&D things --
research and development things -- that
I was doing. But he could have gotten Chet Helms: Right. [Laughs]. Exactly.
me a patent on that stylization of So, anyway. It's just been a kind of...
records based on an earlier button Right now, I don't want anything out of it
patent that used the term variegated other than to see them do it right. I
zoning. Anyway, the first time I saw an I- would like to see them... I mean I'd if I
Mac, that minute, I wanted to do the had the money ... if I were
limited hippie addition of the I-Mac. Well, multimillionaire, I'd just produce some
I've been talking about this for two skins, is what they call them now, just
years. I don't know anybody at Apple, some modular things where you could
but I know a lot of people who know pop that sucker out of there and pop
people at Apple, and I've been putting one in.
this idea out and I said all I want is the, If they'd just simply used saturated
you know, a G-4 tower... Well, actually
colors, you know, and marbled it, truly
at the time it was a G-3 tower and a marbled it, which would have been
video-cinema display play, you know. pretty easy to do.
That's all I want. I'm not askin' for a lot,
but here's a great idea. And what would Chet Helms: Tom Donahue). Do you
really make it very marketable, is if they remember who he was? He's generally
could affiliate it some way with the given credit, I think to some degree, I
Grateful Dead and make it a 'The think undue credit, for starting
Grateful Dead Limited Edition I-Mac', underground radio. I think underground
you know. radio really was FM radio that was
started by a guy named Larry Miller,
Michael Erlewine: Right. who's on a station in Boston. It was after
Chet Helms: So, I was very he had kind of made somewhat of a
disappointed to see this new rip-mix- success of it, then Tom Donahue saw
burn, flower-power I-Mac, because it's the potential in it and really organized it
kind of like one of the most offensive, in a more traditional, marketable kind of
and I'm not generally down on Walter thing. And in fairness to Tom, Tom was
Landor, but one of the most offensive a brilliant man in marketing and
things to me in terms of „60s merchandising and so on, and he really
iconography was that stupid daisy that made it the grand phenomenon that it
Walter Landor designed. And to me became. But, Larry Miller was on this
when they put out this I-Mac, that was little contract station KMTX.
the return to this flower power design by On the weekends, he had the midnight
some big commercial design firm rather to 6 or 7 in the morning thing. And,
than something wild and cutting edge. literally, we would plan a party and
Michael Erlewine: Right. refreshments and our weekends sitting
up all night and listening to Larry Miller's
Chet Helms: I mean, to me, when I see
radio show. Because he was the first
that ad, it's such a pussy rendition of
guy who played album cuts. He was the
that compared to their rip-mix-burn
first guy who would play an entire album
slogan, you know. Somehow the two are
in one sitting. He was the first guy who
not consonant.
would play Bob Dylan, followed up with
Michael Erlewine: The white guy doin' Ravi Shankar and then you know, Flatt
rap.
and Scruggs or something, you know. But, anyway, it ended up in a big strike
He had an eclectic play list and things where everybody but Larry Miller walked
like that. Literally, a lot of social life at off. And so Lee Crosby became the 'evil
that point really, very often on the one', you know. I don't think he was that
weekends, was organized around Larry evil a character.
Miller's show. Anyway I digress about He became the evil one, and then Larry
Donahue,,, Miller just became that scab, you know,
But one of the things that I always which is kind of sad, because he started
remember about Tom Donahue was it all -- he really and truthfully did. And I
John Carpenter and I were the young think I probably offend some people, but
turks. We were the ... and he was every time I'm sitting in a situation where
probably at least 15 years, maybe 20 I'm being interviewed with a group of
years, our senior... And so we'd come people and somebody says, "Oh yeah
barreling into Autumn Records, his and then Tom Donahue started
office you know and everything, and underground radio," I just have to
we'd just be full of some vigor and interject and say, "Sorry, but, you know,
vitality and piss and vinegar, you know. Tom's a great man and he really did
Just, you know, full of ideas and rarin' to make it a very commercially buyable
go and he'd say, "Stop right there." He thing, but he was not the guy who
said, "Don't tell me any of your ideas. I started underground radio." And I try to
have plenty of my own, if you tell me set the record straight that it was Larry
your ideas, you'll be back here tomorrow Miller who did.
telling me I stole your ideas." Michael Erlewine: Well that's cool, I
Michael Erlewine: [Laughs]. was going to ask you what was your
relationship with Victor Moscoso?
Chet Helms: That's the way he would
preface every time we'd come barreling' Chet Helms: Pretty good over the
in there like, "Ahhhh! Let's do this! Lets years, until the artists sued me. He was
do that!" You know [laughs], and I never kind of the ringleader of that.
forgot that. Michael Erlewine: He's very brilliant.
Chet Helms: What happened later was Chet Helms: He's very brilliant I know
there was... Lee Crosby is a guy who and...
owned that station KMTX, at a point. It
was a contract station, where mostly Michael Erlewine: I spoke to many of
minority programming would hire blocks them about that suit and they all seem
of time and that sort of thing, although I to have accepted, from what I can
don't think that Larry Miller had hired understand, whatever that outcome
that time. But anyway, Larry Miller was.
then... I guess Donahue initially... all Michael Erlewine: We get a bum rap I
these guys climbed on board at KMTX. mean the „60s to me is so important.
Then there came a point where Crosby
was either selling the station or in some Chet Helms: Yeah, it's been so heavily
way he was going through a real radical demonized that...
programming change there. I think he Michael Erlewine: Yeah, it's been
was broke and having to sell the station. demonized and, you know, I was out
here in 1960. And then I lived here in '64 transforming the little village I lived in,
for a year, dropped acid, etc., so I was where no one spoke English... What
around for all this Sproul Hall student was transforming it more rapidly than
free-speech thing. In fact, I even saw any single other thing was the little $10
myself in a movie they made. I had the nine-transistor radios.
CPO jacket, Ray-Bans, the works. Michael Erlewine: But when you talk
[Laughs]. about the ripple effect, the ripple from...
Chet Helms: (Laughs) The thing about the Internet that is the
great equalizer, really, hasn't had a
Michael Erlewine: So anyway, I don't
chance to work yet and that is the ability
want to see this whole era just tokenized
to find information -- search. That is an
in some way that doesn't have an edge
equalizer. I have some experience in
to it, that doesn't have some beauty to it.
library science, a little bit. Very few
It was really something.
people can use a library properly. When
Chet Helms: Yeah, oh it was. I would get an enthusiasm, I would
Michael Erlewine: You didn't just have spend weeks documenting, tracing
to be here. I was in Michigan, and it was through books, gathering books buying
still very... books, in order to answer a few simple
questions. I can do that in a minute now,
Chet Helms: It was all over. And to me, I mean that, when that gets to third
it still like dropping a pebble in a pond, world countries, that is going to have an
you know. There was a ripple that went even greater effect than the Walkman.
out that hasn't stopped yet, and, in my Just my opinion.
personal opinion, I know that it's not
entirely shared by the world; it's what Chet Helms: Sure.
brought down the iron curtain and what Michael Erlewine: And the „60s to me
brought down the Berlin wall. is like a threshold of change. It's not
Michael Erlewine: Yeah, maybe so. going to be reproduced.
Chet Helms: I believe it was precisely Chet Helms: Well, I just think that those
that huge culture that started here and social values, those aspirations, went
in London, primarily in the „60s that has out in the form of this music and they
so affected. Part of it's been were transmitted onto cassette
technological -- the cassette recorder, recordings, which were fundamentally
the fax machine... now the Internet. smuggled into Russia and Eastern
Europe.
Michael Erlewine: The Internet is the
biggest thing of all. Michael Erlewine: And something that's
in your favor that needs to be brought
Chet Helms: Right, but I don't think you out in more articles is the whole idea
can ... in a way right now it's that bands like the Grateful Dead would
overshadowed, but I don't think you can not have existed the way they did
really discount the Walkman. The without the posters. The posters were
Walkman and the transistor radio. I being sold across the country, way
mean, those things, like when I was in before the band traveled at all.
Mexico as a kid, 19 or so, hitchhiking
around down there, the thing that was
Chet Helms: There's another area that I Chet Helms: Right.

think has been egregiously overlooked Michael Erlewine: Even we had strobe
and reduced to the quote "electric lights. We had big opaque projectors,
wallpaper" or whatever and that's the with gels, concave lenses, and so forth.
light shows. And that was in Michigan.
Michael Erlewine: I think it's starting to Chet Helms: Right. I'm so hungry for a
be a trend to look into those. light show that would be a large
Chet Helms: I think you're right. I really element...
resent what the Rock and Roll Hall of When, I talk to a lot of the younger
Fame did with light shows, which was people, and I've been to a few raves,
essentially: they created an installation they all talk about, "Oh, we're doing the
there that seems to suggest and imply
same thing." But you go there and it's
that this was just a stage effect that the not the same thing. It's highly
Grateful Dead invented for their touring mechanized rhythms, by and large, or
shows. computer generated. It's kind of like
Michael Erlewine: Hmm, perhaps they trying... Sure, you can get a synthesizer
don't know any better. to produce the sound track, but there's
something essentially lifeless about it,
Chet Helms: Well they knew better,
because, you know, humans are
„cause I told them and a lot of other
inherently human and fallible, and it's
people did, but that's how it got
precisely those little dissonant, off-beat
presented. Partially, it was because of
things that put the 'funk' in funk music,
who they hired to present it. The person
you know? If you over digitalized
they hired had never done a light show,
everything and clean everything up and
but they hired little elements of other
make rhythms that are based on an
light shows to provide them. I tried to get
atomic clock…
them to get someone like Bill Ham or
Ben Van Meter or Robert Elliott or one Michael Erlewine: You're missing the
of these guys that was a master point. You're not accomplishing
practitioner of it to... I mean for one anything.
thing, the thing about light shows that's Chet Helms: Right. And a computer
totally misunderstood at this point is that doesn't know intuitively when
light shows at that point were a counterpoint is called for. It's like there
performance art. are many effects in human music that
Michael Erlewine: Well, that's right. I come out of human intuition that says...
mean we had them in Michigan. Well, somebody was tellin' me the other
night about trying to jam with someone
Chet Helms: Right now, it's presented
and they were constantly having to tell
like it's something that could be canned
them, "Look, don't play what I play. Play
and automated and just sort of plugged
against what I play."
in, with little ancillary units there, that
provide some little flashing lights while Michael Erlewine: That's why Bach
the band plays. was so great.
Michael Erlewine: I know. It took a staff Chet Helms: Right. I forgot who it was. I
to do it, right? was talking to some musician the other
night and they were talking about jam ... Chet Helms book, then that needs, or
we were talking about them jamming memoir or whatever, then that needs
with some particular person and they to…
said the problem was that this person Michael Erlewine: Well, you know,
would play what they played. They'd some books, I mean the book that
play this and then, you know, they'd appears in my mind to this conversation
come back with the same thing or they is something like a, you know, place
would play over them, playing the same holder. You know, the „60s scene
thing. He'd say, "No don't play with me. according to Chet, basically, and most
Play against me, so that it shows what of the time you wouldn't want anything
you're playing and it shows what I'm according to someone. I mean, that
playing, but they work together. wouldn't be the title but you really have it
is like an encyclopedia knowledge that
Chet Helms: When I do a biography, it
needs to be something separate from Michael@Erlewine.net
the poster book. And the reason for
that....
Chet Helms: I'm talking about "The
Chet Helms Book," the Family Dog
book.
Michael Erlewine: Of course.
Chet Helms: Needs to be a separate
book,
Michael Erlewine: I agree.
Chet Helms: Than the … I don't even
know why I'm telling you this, except
that you're a person out there, you
know, confronted with all kinds of
opportunities and maybe a second on
some of these dove tails at a future
point.
Michael Erlewine: Yeah, what are you
looking for?
Chet Helms: But all I'm saying is that
people say, "Oh, do your biography and,
and do all the posters with it." Well, if I
do all the posters with it then I have to
share that 50-50 with the artists. So the
poster book needs to be a book about
posters, and I don't have a problem
sharing that with the artists. But if I do
the grand complete Family Dog and or

Classic Posters - Interview With Chet Helms by Michael Erlewine

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Classic Posters - Interview With Chet Helms by Michael Erlewine

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Classic Posters – Interview with Chet Helms by Michael Erlewine

Classic Posters – Interview with Chet College, and he had a correspondence

Michael Erlewine: Isn‟t acid wonderful, Chet Helms: Oh yes.

Michael Erlewine: I didn‟t take it a ton Michael Erlewine: I interviewed Kelley,

Michael Erlewine: What do you know, if Michael Erlewine: I thought a smaller

Chet Helms: There's another area that I Chet Helms: Right.

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