Ri

ckDol
phi
j
nandI
ri
svanderTui
n

NewMat
eri
ali
sm:
Int
erv
iews&Car
togr
aphi
es

i
.i
nter
views>3.“
mat
terf
eel
s,conv
erses,
suf
fer
s,desi
res,
year
nsandr
emember
s”

3.“
Mat
terf
eel
s,conv
erses,
suf
fer
s,desi
res,
year
nsandr
emember
s”

I
nter
viewwi
thKar
enBar
ad[
1]

Q1: “Newmat er ial

ism”asat erm wascoi nedbyManuel DeLandaandRosi Braidot t
iinthe
secondhal foft he1990’ s.Newmat eriali
sm showshowt hemi ndi salway salreadymat erial(
the
mi ndisani deaoft hebody ),howmat terisnecessar il
ysomet hi ngoft hemi nd( themi ndhast he
bodyasi t
sobj ect ),andhownat ureandcul tureareal way salready“ nat urecultures”( Donna
Har away ’
sterm) .Newmat eri
ali
sm opposest het r
anscendent al andhumani st( dual i
st)
tradit
ionsthatar ehaunt ingcul t
ur altheor y,standingont hebr inkofbot ht hemoder nandt he
post -
postmoder nera.Thet r
anscendent alandhumani sttraditi
ons, whi char emani f
oldy et
consistentlypr edicatedondual istst r
uct ures, continuetost i
rdebat est hatar ebei ngopenedup
bynewmat erialists(thi
nkoft hef emi nistpol emicconcer ningt hefail
edmat erialism int hewor k
ofJudi t
hBut ler ,andoft heSaussur i
an/ Lacani anlinguisticher i
tagei nmedi aandcul tural
studies).Whatcanbel abelled“newmat eriali
sm”shi ftsthesedual i
stst r
ucturesbyal lowi ngfor
theconcept ual izati
onoft het r
avel l
i
ngoft hef l
uxesofnat ureandcul ture, matterandmi nd, and
openi ngupact ivetheor yformat ion.

Inyouremphasi sonquantum phy si

cs,youseem t
obepr oposingav erysimil
arr oute.Thei dea
behind“agenti
alreal
ism,”i
npr i
ntsince1996fol
lowingtheBohr i
anappr oachtoepi stemology
thatyouhav epubli
shedaboutsincet hemid-
1980s,seemstowar doffthedualismst hathav e
hauntedthehumani ti
esandt hesciencesaswell
.Parti
cul
arl
yint hecaseofmeasur ement ,thi
s
agenti
alreali
sm all
owsy outore-r
eadBohr ’
sphil
osophyofquant um mechani csandt ocri
tique
thefactthatsomanyt heori
stsrefusetocometot ermswiththemat eri
al-di
scursiveand
perfor
mat i
venatureofintr
a-act
ions.

I
sthi
simmanentenfol
dingofmat t
erandmeaning,whichyour
efert
oas“agent
ial
reali
sm,”and
whi
chwenamea“ newmat eri
ali
sm,”thequi
ntessenceofy
ourcri
ti
queofbot
hthesciencesand
t
hehumani
ti
es?

KarenBar ad:
Thecoreofy ourquest
ionIhav
etosayisspoton, butsi
ncey oustat
ewhatIam
doi
ngi ntermsofcrit
iqueIwantedtostar
tbysayi
ngsomet hingaboutcri
ti
que.Iam not
i
nterestedincri
ti
que.Inmyopinion,
cri
ti
queisov
er-r
ated,
ov er-
emphasized,andover-
uti
l
ized,
to
thedet r
imentoff emi nism.AsBr unoLat oursi gnalsinanar t i
cleent i
tled“ Whyhascr it
iquer un
outofst eam?Fr om Mat tersofFactt oMat t
er sofConcer n”( 2004) ,criti
quei sat ool thatkeeps
gettingusedoutofhabi tperhaps, buti tisnol ongert het ool neededf ort heki ndsofsi tuations
wenowf ace.Cr iti
quehasbeent het ool ofchoi cef orsol ong, andourst udent sf indt hemsel v es
sowel l-
trainedi ncr i
tiquet hatt heycanspi toutacr it
iquewi ththepushofabut ton.Cr it
iquei s
tooeasy ,especi allywhenacommi t
mentt or eadingwi thcar enol ongerseemst obea
fundament alelementofcr iti
que.SoasIexpl aintomyst udent s,readingandwr itingar eethical
pract i
ces, andcr i
tiquemi ssest hemar k.Now, Iunder standt hattherei sadi fferentv alencet o
thenot i
onofcr iti
quei nEur opet hant herei si nt heUni t
edSt ates;nonet heless, It hinkt hispoi nt
i
si mpor t
ant .Critiquei sal lt
ooof tennotadeconst ructi
v epr act i
ce,thati s,apr act i
ceofr eadi ng
fortheconst i
tutiveexcl usionsoft hosei deaswecannotdowi thout, butadest ruct i
vepr acti
ce
meantt odi smi ss, tot ur naside, toputsomeoneorsomet hingdown—anot herschol ar ,another
femi nist,adi scipline, anappr oach, etcet era.Sot hisisapr acticeofnegat i
v i
tyt hatIt hinkis
aboutsubt ract i
on, distancingandot her i
ng.Lat oursuggest st hatwemi ghtt urnt oAl anTur i
ng’ s
notionoft hecr iti
cal i
nst eadofcr itique( Tur ing1950) ,wher egoi ngcr i
ti
cal refer st ot henot i
onof
crit
ical mass—t hati s, whenasi ngl eneut ronent ersacr it
ical sampl eofnucl earmat erialwhi ch
producesabr anchi ngchai nr eact i
ont hatexpl odeswi thi deas.Asaphy sicistIf indt his
met aphorchi ll
ingandomi nous.I nst ead, bui l
dingonasuggest i
onofDonnaHar away , whatI
proposei st hepr act iceofdi ff
ract i
on, ofr eadi ngdi ffr
act i
v el
yf orpat ternsofdi ffer encest hat
makeadi f
ference.AndImeant hatnotasanaddi ti
venot i
onopposedt osubt ract ion, asIwi ll
explaini nal ittl
ebi t.Rat her,Imeant hati nt hesenseofi tbei ngsuggest ive,cr eat i
v eand
visi
onar y.

Inchapt er2ofMeet ingtheUni verseHal f

way :Quant um Phy sicsandt heEntanglementofMat ter
andMeani ng( Bar ad2007)Idi scussedi ndet ai
lwhatIcal l
adi ffracti
vemet hodol ogy ,amet hod
ofdiffr
act i
v el
yr eadinginsightsthroughoneanot her ,bui
ldingnewi nsight
s, andat tenti
v elyand
carefull
yreadi ngf ordiffer
encest hatmat terintheirfinedet ail
s,togetherwit hther ecogni ti
on
thattherei ntr
insictot hisanalysisisanet hi
cst hatisnotpr edicatedonext ernali
tybutr ather
entanglement .Di ffr
activereadingsbr i
ngi nventi
vepr ovocat i
ons; theyaregoodt ot hinkwi th.
Theyar er espect f
ul,detail
ed,ethicalengagement s.Iwantt ocomebackt othecr uxofy our
questionnowt hatIhav esaidsomet hi
ngaboutcr it
ique.Idonotmeant opickont hat ,butIt hi
nk
i
tisimpor tanttosaysomet hi
ngaboutt henot i
onofcr i
ti
queandt omov eitt othinkingi nstead
aboutt heseki ndsofpr ovocati
onsandot herkindsofengagement sthatwemi ghtpr actice.

So,comingbackt othecr uxofyourquestion,

theent angl
ementofmat terandmeani ngcalls
i
ntoquesti
onthissetofdual ismsthatplacesnat ur
eononesi deandcul tur
eont heother.And
whichsepar
atesof fmat t
ersoffactfrom mattersofconcern(BrunoLatour)andmat tersofcar
e
(Mari
aPuigdelaBel lacasa),
andshiftsthem offtobedealtwi t
hbywhatweapt l
ycal lher
ein
theStat
es“separateacademi cdivi
sions,
”wher ebythedivi
sionoflaborissuchthatthenatural
sciencesareassignedmat tersoffactandthehumaniti
esmatter
sofconcern,f
orexample.I
tis
diff
icul
ttoseethedi f
fract
ionpat t
erns—thepat
ter
nsofdiff
erencethatmakeadiff
erence—when
thecordoni
ngof fofconcer nsintoseparat
edomainseli
destheresonancesanddi
ssonances
thatmakeupdi ff
racti
onpat ternsthatmaketheentangl
ementsvisi
ble.

Iwoul dl i
ket oof fert woexampl est ot hinkwi thi nengagi ngy ourquest ion.Ir ecent lygav ea
keynot eataconf er enceatt heSt ev ensI nst i
tuteofTechnol ogy , [2]whi chi sinNewJer sey .They
arest artingav eryi nnov ativer ev ampi ngoft heirHumani ti
espr ogr am.Theyar ei nter est edi n
taki
ngi nsight sf r
om sci encest udi es, andr unni ngt hem backi nt otheHumani ti
es.Thi si st he
wayt heyt alkabouti t
.Whatt heypr oposei st her ever seofhowsomewoul dt hinkoft he
potent i
al impactofsci encest udies: nott ouset heHumani ti
est ot hi
nkaboutt heSci encesbut
touset heSci encest or ethinkt heHumani ti
es.Thi si st hei rproj ectandi twasav eryi nter esti
ng
confer ence.Butt her ewassomet hi ngaboutt hewayi nwhi chi twasbei ngf ramedov erall t
hatI
want edt oseei fIcoul dgeti ntoconv ersat i
onwi tht hem about .Fi rstofal l,ther ewast henot i
on
thatwhati sneededi sasy nthesi s; asy nt hesisoraj oiningoft heHumani tiesandt heSci ences
asift heywer ealway sal r
eadysepar ater at hert hanal way sal readyent angl ed.Sot hatt her e
woul dbeSci encewi thmat ter soff act ,andnat ur e,andsoon, ononesi de, andHumani ties,
meani ng, values, andcul t
ur e,ont heot her ,andsomehowt hatt her ewoul dbeaj oiningoft he
two.So, wet alkedaboutt heway si nwhi cht her ear eent anglement st hatal readyexi stbet ween
theHumani ti
esandt heSci ences; theyhav enotgr ownupsepar atelyfrom oneanot her .Iwas
j
ustpoi ntingoutt ot hem someoft hel imi tationsoft hinki nganal ogicallyasi nl ooki ngf ormi rror
i
magesbet weent heSci encesont heonehandandt heHumani tiesont heot her .AndIwas
tel
li
ngt hem aboutt hiswonder f
ul stor ythatShar onTr aweekt ellsaboutwhenshewasdoi ng
fi
eldwor kont hehi ghener gyphy sicscommuni tyatt heSt anf ordLi nearAccel er ator( SLAC) .She
i
sst andi ngi nahal l atSLAC, andnot icesaphy sicistst aringatpi cturesoff r
act al i
magesont he
wall.Shegazesupont heimagesandaskshi m: “Cany out ellmewhati ssobeaut i
ful about
thosei mages? ”Thephy sicistt urnst oherwi tht hi spuzzl edl ookonhi sf aceandsay s: “Iam not
reall
ysur ewhyy ouaskedt hequest ion.I t’sself -evident !Ev erywher ey oul ooki tist hesame. ”
Andofcour sef emi nistsar enott rainedt ol ookort akepl easur ei nev er ythingbei ngt hesame,
buttot hi
nkaboutdi fferences.

Ofcour set hemi r

rorimageoft hatist hatSciencemi rrorsCulture, sowehav eakindof
scient i
ficreal i
sm v ersussocialconstructi
vism,whichar eofcour sebothaboutmi rror
ing.
Instead, whatIpr oposei sthenot i
onofdi ffr
acti
on, drawingont hewor kofmycol l
eagueand
fri
endDonnaHar away .AsDonnasay s, “
dif
fract
ionpat ternsrecor dthehistoryofinter
acti
on,
i
nt erference, reinforcement,dif
ference.Di f
fract
ionisabouthet erogeneoushi story
,notabout
originals.Unl ikereflecti
ons,dif
fracti
onsdonotdi splacet hesameel sewher e,i
nmor eorless
distortedf or m,therebygi v
ingrisetoindust ri
esof[story-makingaboutor igi
nsandt ruths]
.
Rat her,dif
fr acti
oncanbeamet aphorf oranotherkindofcr it
ical consci
ousness. ”WhatIwas
point i
ngouti sthediff
er encei ntheshi f
tfrom geomet r
icaloptics,from quest ionsofmi rr
ori
ng
andsameness, refl
exi
v i
ty,wher et oseey ourimagei nthemi r
rorther enecessar il
yhast obea
distancebet weenyouandt hemi rror.Sot hereisasepar ationofsubj ectandobj ect, and
object iv
ityisaboutmirrori magesoft hewor ld.Andinstead, t
heshi f
tt owardsdi ffract ion,
towar dsdi ff
erencesthatmat ter,i
sr eallyamat t
erofwhatphy si
cistscal lphysical opt icsas
compar edt ogeomet r
ical optics.Geomet ricalopti
csdoesnotpayanyat tenti
ont othenat ureof
l
ight .Act ual
ly,
iti
sanappr oximat i
ont hatget susedt ostudyt heopt icsofdi ff
er entlenses, or
mi r
ror s.Andy oujusttreatlightasi fitwer ear ay(anabst ractnotion) .Inotherwor ds, i
tis
compl etelyagnosti
caboutwhet herlightisapar t
icl
eorawav eorany thingelse.I tisj ustan
appr oximat i
onschemef orst udyingv ar
iousappar atuses.Bycont r ast,diff
ractional lowsy outo
studybot hthenatureoft heappar atusandal sotheobj ect
.Thati s, bot hthenat ureofl ightand
alsot henat ureoftheappar atusitself.Italkalotaboutt hi
si nchapt er2ofMeet i
ng.ButwhatI
want edt obr i
ngoutist hef actthatwel earnsomuchmor eaboutdi ffracti
onusi ngquant um
physi cs.

Ther eisadi fferencebet weenunder standi ngdi ffracti

onasacl assical phy sicsphenomenonand
under standi ngi tquant um- mechani cal l
y.Ihav et akent hiswonder ful met aphort hatDonnahas
givenusandIhav er unwi thitbyaddi ngi mpor t antnon- classical i
nsi ght sfrom quant um phy si
cs.
Diffraction, under stoodusi ngquant um phy sics, isnotj ustamat t
erofi nt erference, butof
entangl ement ,anet hi co-onto- epistemol ogi cal mat t
er.Thisdi fferencei sv eryimpor tant.I
t
under li
nest hef actt hatknowi ngi sadi rectmat erialengagement ,acut tingt oget her-apart,
wher ecut sdov iolencebutal soopenupandr ewor ktheagent ialcondi tionsofpossi bili
ty.There
i
snott hisknowi ngf rom adi stance.I nst eadoft herebei ngasepar ationofsubj ectandobj ect,
therei sanent angl ementofsubj ectandobj ect ,whi chi scalledt he“ phenomenon. ”Obj ectivi
ty,
i
nst eadofbei ngaboutof feringanundi st ortedmi rrorimageoft hewor ld, i
saboutaccount abil
i
ty
tomar ksonbodi es, andr esponsi bilit
yt ot heent anglement sofwhi chwear eapar t
.Thati sthe
kindofshi ftthatweget ,ifwemov edi f
fract i
oni ntother ealm ofquant um phy si
cs.Al lofthisis
tosayt hatwecomeupwi t
hadi fferentwayoft hinkingaboutwhati nsi ght stheSci ences, t
he
Humani ties, t
heAr ts,t heSoci al Sciences, andl et ’
snotf orgetinsight sder i
vedout sideof
academi a, canbr i
ngt ooneanot herbydi f f
ractiv elyreadingt hem t hroughoneanot herf ortheir
variousent angl ement s,andbybei ngat t
ent ivet owhatget sexcl udedaswel laswhatcomest o
mat ter.Sot hatwewi ndupwi thav erydi fferentwayofengagi ngt her elat i
onshipbet weent he
Sciencesandt heHumani ti
es, whi chIt hinki st heor i
ginalquest iont haty ouaskedme.

Andt hen,j
ustreall
ybrief
lymysecondexampl eandIpr omiseyouIwi ll
notgoonthislongabout
everyquestion,
butjusttosetupsomet hingsinthebeginning…Itaughtalect
urecoursethis
quar t
ercal
led“Feminism inSci
ence,
”whichhadSci encestudentsinthecl
assaswel l
as
studentsfr
om theHumani ti
es,
theSoci
alSciences,andtheAr t
s,andwewer etal
kingaboutthe
notionofscienti
fi
clit
eracyandhowscientif
icli
ter
acyhasgr ownupt obethesoleresponsibi
li
ty
oftheSci ences.Butwhati ssci ent i
ficli
teracy?Wespentmi l
li
onsofdol larsoni ti
nt heUni t
ed
Statesandwear enotr eallysur ewhati tmeansatal l
,asamat teroffact .Andaf t
erspendi ng
mi l
li
onsofdol larsbywhat ev ermeasur eispr ov idedf orsci ent i
fi
clit
eracy ,west i
llhavet hesame
percent agesofsci ent i
ficlit
er acyasbef or e.Accor dingt ot hesemeasur es, scientifi
clit
er acyis
betweent hr eeandsi xper cent .Andt hatisact ual lythesamenumberofsci ent i
stsand
engineer sthatwehav e.Thatt ellsyousomet hingaboutt hewayi nwhi chsci entif
icli
teracyi s
beingunder st ood, andhowi tisbei ngmeasur ed, andhowi tisbeingthoughtabout ,andwho
needst ot aker esponsi bili
tyfori t,andsoon.Andsowet alkedaboutt hef actt hatadi fferent
kindofl it
er acyi sact uallyrequi redf ordoingsci ence.Thatconsi derationoft heet hi
cal,soci al
andl egal impl icationsofv ar i
ousnewsci encesandt echnol ogiesafterthef actisnotr obust
enough.Forexampl e,weconsi deredt henewf ieldofbi oet hicsinwhi chet hi csistakent obe
solelyamat terofconsi deringt hei magi nedconsequencesofsci entif
icpr ojectst hatareal ready
given.Butt henot ionofconsequencesi sbasedont hewr ongt empor ali
ty :askingaf terpot enti
al
consequencesi st ool i
ttle,tool ate,becauseet hicsofcour se, i
sbeingdoner i
ghtatthel ab
bench.Andso, asf orwhati ttakest obesci entificallyli
terat e,t
hequest ioni swhatdoesi ttake
i
nor dert oi dent ifythev ari
ousappar at
usesofbodi l
ypr oduct i
onthatar eatst akeher e.Andsoi n
ordert oident ifyt hoseweneedamuchbr oadersenseofl iteracyandweneedal lki
ndsof
peopl earoundt hel abbench, sot hatsci entifi
cl iteracyshoul dnol ongerbeseenasbei ngsol el
y
theresponsi bilityoft heSci ences.It hi
nkt hatisoneoft heway sinwhi chwegetour selv esina
l
otoft r
oubl ei nt ermsofeducat i
on.

Q2:
Coul
dyouexpl
aint
ousabi
tmor
ewhat
,how,
orwhot
heagenti
nagent
ial
real
i
sm “
is”
?

KB: Fi
rst,Iwantt osayt hatIt r
yt ost ayawayf rom usi ngt het erm“ agent ,”orev en“ actant,
”
becauset heset ermswor kagai nstt herel
at i
onal ontol ogyIam pr oposing.Al sot henot i
ont hat
thereareagent swhohav eagency ,orwhogr antagency ,say , tonon- humans( thegr anti
ngof
agencyi sani ronicnot ion,no? )
, pull
susbacki ntot hesameol dhumani stor bitsov erandov er
again.Andi tisnoteasyt oresistt hegravitati
onal forceofhumani sm, especi allywheni tcomes
tothequest ionof“ agency .
”Butagencyf ormei snotsomet hingt hatsomeoneorsomet hing
hast ovaryingdegr ees, si
nceIam t ryi
ngt odispl acet hev erynot i
onofi ndependent lyexist
ing
i
ndi vi
duals.Thi sisnot ,howev er, t
odenyagencyi nit simpor tance, butont hecont rary,t
or ewor k
thenot i
onofagencyi nway sthatar eappr opr i
atet or el ational ontologies.Agencyi snothel d,it
i
snotapr oper tyofper sonsort hings; r
ather,agencyi sanenact ment ,amat terofpossi bil
iti
es
forreconfiguringent angl ements.Soagencyi snotaboutchoi ceinanyl iber al humani stsense;
rather,i
tisaboutt hepossi bili
ti
esandaccount abili
tyent ai l
edi nreconf i
gur i
ngmat eri
al-
discursi
veappar atusesofbodi lypr oducti
on, includi ngt heboundar yarticulat i
onsandexcl usi ons
thataremar kedbyt hosepr actices.Oneoft hei temst haty ouaskedabouti st hehowofagency ,
andi nasense, thehowi spreci
sel yinthespeci fi
cityoft hepar ti
cul arpract ices, soIcannotgi ve
agener alanswert ot hat,butper hapsIcansaysomet hi nghel pful aboutt hespaceof
possi
bil
i
tiesf
oragency
.

Agency ,onanagent ial r

eal i
staccount ,doesnotr equi reacl ashofappar atuses, (asBut l
eronce
suggest ed)suchast hecont radictor ynormsoff emi ni nity, sot hatwear enev ersuccessf ul i
n
compl et elyembody ingf emi ninity,becauset herear econt radi ctoryr equirement s.Agent ial
realism doesnotr equi rethatki ndofcl ashofappar at uses, becausei ntra-actionst obegi nwi t
h
arenev erdet er mining, ev enwhenappar atusesar er einf orci ng.Intra- acti
onsent ail exclusi ons,
andexcl usionsf oreclosedet er minism.Howev er,oncedet er minism i sfor eclosedt hisdoesnot
l
eav euswi tht heopt ionoff reewi l
l.Ithinkwet endt ot hi nkaboutcausal it
yandquest i
onsof
agencyi nt ermsofei therdet er minism ont heonehand, orf reewi llont heot her.Causeand
effectar esupposedt of oll
owoneupont heot herl i
kebi l
liardbal l
s, andsowegoti ntot hehabi t
ofsay ingt hatwedonotr eallymeant hisinacausal sense.AndIt hinkt osomedegr ee,
causal i
tyhasbecomeadi rt
ywor d,asr ealism is/ was.AndsoIam t ryi
ngt ogetpeopl etot al
k
aboutcausal ityagai n, becauseIt hinkt hati tisv ery,v eryi mpor tant.I fwehav eagr oupofpeopl e
wher ewef indt hatther eisal otofcanceri nacer taincommuni ty,Iwantt oknowsomet hing
aboutt henat ureoft hatcommuni tyandaboutcausal relationshi ps, becausei fIam atLov e
Canal int heUni tedSt ates, apopul atedar eawher eabunchoft oxi nswer edumpedandt he
peopl ewer eget t
ingcancer s, thenImi ghtwantt oev acuat epeopl e.Ont heot herhand, ifIam at
theMay oCl inic,wher et heyar et r
eat i
ngcancerpat ient sandt herear eal otofpeopl ewi th
cancer ,itisnott het hingt odo.Ir eal l
ywantust ospeci fymor ecar ef ull
yt hedi fferentki ndsof
causal i
ties, andhowt ot hinkcausal i
tyagai n.Andt hati spar tlywhatImeanbyt henot ionof
“i
ntr a-act i
on”aspr oposi nganewwayoft hinkingcausal ity.I tisnotj ustaki ndofneol ogi sm,
whi chget sust oshi ftfrom i nt eraction, wher ewest ar twi t hsepar ateent itiesandt heyi nt eract,
toint ra-act ion, wheret herear ei nteractionst hroughwhi chsubj ectandobj ectemer ge, but
actual lyasanewunder standi ngofcausal ityitself.

Firstofall,agencyi saboutr esponse-abi

lit
y ,
aboutt hepossibil
iti
esofmut ual r
esponse, whichis
nott odeny ,butt oattendt opowerimbalances.Agencyi saboutpossi bili
ti
esf orwor l
dlyre-
conf i
gurings.Soagencyi snotsomet hi
ngpossessedbyhumans, ornon- humansf orthatmat t
er.
Itisanenact ment .Andi tenl
ist
s,ifyouwi l
l,“non-humans”aswel las“ humans. ”Atthesame
time, Iwantt obecl earthatwhatIam nott alki
ngabouther eisdemocr ati
callydistri
buting
agencyacr ossanassembl ageofhumansandnon- humans.Ev ent hought her earenoagent s
perse, thenot i
onofagencyIam suggest ingdoesnotgoagai nstthecr ucial pointofpower
i
mbal ances.Ont hecont rar
y.Thespecifi
cityofi ntra-act
ionsspeakst ot hepar ti
culari
ti
esoft he
poweri mbal ancesoft hecompl exit
yofaf iel
doff orces.Iknowt hatsomepeopl earev ery
ner v
ousaboutnothav i
ngagencyl ocali
zedi nthehumansubj ect,butIt hinkt hatisthefirst
step—r ecogni zi
ngt hatthereisnotthiskindofl ocal i
zati
onorpar t
icularchar acteri
zati
onoft he
humansubj ectisthef i
rststepintakingaccountofpoweri mbal ances, notanundoi ngofi t
.
Asabr iefexampl e,therei sanar ti
cl eIj ustcameacr ossont heI nter netbyChr isWi lbertcal led
“Prof i
t,Pl agueandPoul try:TheI nt ra-act iv
eWor ldsofHi ghlyPat hogeni cAv i
anFl u”( Wi lbert
2006) ,ont hebi o- geo-pol i
ticsofpot ent i
alflupandemi cs.Chr is’sanal ysisoft heav ianf lu(H5N1)
asanat ur alcultur alphenomenonhi ghl ightsthei mpor tanceoft akingaccountoft heagent ial
ent anglement sofi ntra-act i
nghumanandnon- humanpr actices.Chr ispoi ntsoutt hatwhi l
e
wor ldheal thor ganizat i
onsandgov ernment sar epl acingmi gr ator ybi rdsandsmal lfar m chi cken
producer sundersur v eil
lance, theempi r
icaldatadoesnotsuppor tthesecausal li
nkages.Rat her
,
thedi seasef ol l
owst hegeogr aphical diffr
actionpat t
er nsofl arge- scal efact or yfarmed
product ionofpoul t
ry.Thel attergiv esr i
set ounpr ecedent eddensi tiesofbi rds, maki ngf i
rst-
classl odgi ngsf orthr i
vingandmut at ingzoonoses.I ndust riallypr oducedmeat s, i
nt ernat i
onal
veter i
nar ypr act i
ces, biosecur i
typr act ices,internat i
onal t
radeagr eement s, transpor tnet wor ks,
i
ncr easeddensi tyofhumanpopul at ions, andmor eareamongt hev ar i
ousagent i
al appar at uses
atwor k.Causal ityisnoti nteractional , butratheri ntra-act i
onal .Maki ngpol icybasedonaddi ti
ve
appr oachest omul ti
plecauses, mi sseskeyf actor sinav oidingepi demi cssuchaspr oviding
i
nexpensi v ef ormsofsaf ef oodfort hepoor estpopul ationsandt heel i
mi nationofi ndust rial
formsoft hemasski lli
ngofani mal s.Soi naddi tiontoni celyi l
lustrat i
ngt hei mpor tanceof
pay ingat tent i
ont o“human”and“ non- human”f or msofagency , asi twer e, ther eisawayi n
whi chChr isacknowl edgeswhatget sl eftoutofpr acticesofaccount i
ngwhenagencyi s
attributedt ohumanornon- humanent it
iesandl eftatt hat.Whatget sl eftout , yousee, isa
whol ear rayofv erycompl exmat er ial practicest hatcont ri
but et oaki ndofepi demi ct hatisnot
attributabl eei thert ot heor ganismst hemsel vesort otheki ndsoft hingst hatpeopl edo.Idonot
knowChr is.Ibr ingi ttoy ourat t
ent ion, becauseIt hi
nkt hathegi v esusani nter estingcaset o
thinkwi th.

Anot herex ampl ethatmaybehel pf ul herei sanexampl ethatHar away( 2008)t alksabout.Iti
s
anexampl et hatisr aisedbyBar bar aSmut s, whoisanAmer i
canbi oant hropologistwhowentt o
Tanzani at oi nvestigat ebaboonsi nt hewi ldf orherdoctoralresearch.Shei st ol
dasasci enti
fic
i
nv estigatorofnon- humanpr imat est okeepherdi stance,sot hatherpr esencewoul dnot
i
nf l
uencet hebehav i
oroft her esear chsubj ectsthatshewasst udying.Di stancei sthecondition
ofobj ect i
vity
.Smut st al ksaboutt hef actt hatthisadvicewasacompl etedi sasterforher
resear ch,thatshef oundher selfunabl et odoanyobser vati
onssi ncet hebaboonswer e
const ant l
yat tenti
vet owhatshewasdoi ng.Shef i
nall
yreali
zedt hatt hiswasbecauseSmut s
wasbehav ingsost rangel yt ot hem, theyj ustcoul dnotgetov erher .Shewasbei ngabadsoci al
subjecti nt heircir
cl es.Theonl ywayt ocar r
yonandt odor esearchobj ectivel
ywast obe
responsi ble;thatis, thatobj ectivi
ty, at hemet hatfeministsciencest udi eshasbeen
emphasi zingal lalong, i
st hef actt hatobj ectivi
tyisamat terofresponsi bil
it
yandnotamat t
erof
distancingatal l.Whatul t
imat elydi dwor kwast hatshel earnedtobecompl etel
yr esponsiveto
thenon- humanpr imat es, andi nthatwayshebecameagoodbaboonci ti
zen.Theycoul d
under stand, atleasti nt ell
igibl
yt ot henon- humanpr imates,andasar esul ttheyleftheralone
andwentaboutt
hei
rbusi
ness,
maki
ngi
tpossi
blef
orhert
oconductherr
esear
ch.

Q3: I
nMeet i
ngt heUni verseHal fwayandi nsev eraljournalarticles,youf oll
owHar awayi n
proposi ng“dif
fracti
on,”ther elati
onal nat ureofdi ff
erence, asamet hodologyf ortr
eat i
ng
theor i
esandt extsnotaspr eexisti
ngent ities,butasi ntr
a-action, asforcesf rom whichot her
textscomei nt
oexi stence.Ont heot herhand, y
ouf ocusst ronglyont hewor kofNi elsBohr
throughouty ourwor k.Yourr e-writi
ngoft hephi l
osophyt hati sact i
vei nallofhistextsseemst o
benei therduti
ful norundutiful t
ohi si deas.Andy ety ourwor kcanber eadasoneoft he
strongestcomment ari
esont hewor kofBohrnowav ai
labl
et oacademi cs.Perhapst hef i
rstone
thatsucceedsi nr eadinghimi ntotheHumani ti
es.Nextt oBohr ,ofcour se,youreadmanyot her
scientistsandschol arsli
keEi nstein, Schr ödinger,butalsoMer leau-Pont y,Harawayofcour se,
Deleuze, andLat our.Especiallyasconcer nst hephilosopher sandt hoseschol arstradit
ionall
y
notr eadwi t
hintheSci ences, youseem t or eadthem v eryaf f
irmat i
vely,albei
tinpassi ng.

Howwoul dy ouev aluatet hisconcept uali

zationoft hewayi nwhi chy out r
eattheories,taking
i
ntoaccounty ourproposal f
oradi f
fractivemet hodol ogy?Inot herwor ds,i
sthereasensei n
whichy ourwor kisnotamedi t
ati
ont hatagr eesordi sagr eeswi t
ht hewor kofBohr ,butonet hat
i
sint r
a-activewi t
hit,creatingbot hthewor kofBohrandagent i
alrealism?Andwhatar et he
generationalimpl i
cati
onsofdi ffr
actionmor egener all
y?Femi ni
stsar eusuallywar yoft hought
asgov ernedbyoedi pali
ty ;f
emi ni
stssuchasRosi Br aidottihavearguedf oramet hodol ogythat
doesnotr epeattheal l
-too-commonOedi pal relati
onwi thMast ers,affirmingtheirstatusby
negatingthewor k,andt hiscomesv er ycl
oset oy ourcr it
iqueofcr it
iqueact uall
y.Does
di
ffracti
onal lowf orarel ati
onbet weent extsandschol ar
st hatisneitherundut i
ful(affi
rmi ngthe
Mast erbynegat i
ngthewor k)nordut iful(pl
aci ngt he“ new”wor ki ntheMast er’
shouse) ?

KB: Giv enwhatIal r

eadysaidaboutdiffracti
ver eadings, Ithinkitisclearthaty ourquest i
on
reall
ybeaut i
f ull
ystatesmyrel
ationshipwi t
hthemat eri
alst hatIengagedwi t
hindoi ng
diff
ract iv
ereadi ngs.Inthespi
ri
tofdi f
fracti
ver eadings, Ijustwantt osayt hatIam r eallyvery
grateful andi ndebtedtoyoufory ourcarefulreadingofmywor k.Thanky ouf orthat.I
whol ehear t
edl yagreewithwhaty ouhav esaidt herei ntermsoft hef actthatIam nei ther
l
ooki ngt oBohr ’
swor kasscri
pturenort osomehowbet he“ undutifuldaughter”toBohr .Butto
readv ari
ousi nsightsthr
oughoneanot herandt opr oducesomet hingnew, newpat ternsof
thi
nki ng-being, whil
eatthesamet i
mebei ngv eryattentiv etowhati tisthatBohri stryingt osay
tous, andIt hinkthatyouhavedonet hatwi t
hmywor ksoIwant edt othanky ouf orthat .

Q4:
Alt
hough“
gender
”ist
het
ermt
hatseemst
obet
heunquest
ionabl
efoundat
ionoft
hef
iel
dof
genderst udi
es,it
sconcept uall
egacyhasbeenspeci f
iedasAngl o-
Amer icanandl i
nguisti
c.
Femi ni
stscholarsworkingwi t
hgenderusual l
ysetupanar gumentagainstabi ologi
cal
determinism orbiol
ogicalessenti
ali
sm, andascri
beaf i
xedsexual ont
ologytomaj ortradi
tions
i
n( scholarl
y)thoughtaswel lastoCont i
nentalf
emini
stphilosophy(e.
g.t heworkofLuce
I
rigaray)
.FélixGuattar
i oncesummar izedhistakeontheseissuesinani nter
view,stat
ing:

I
fGill
esDel euzeandIhav eadopt edtheposi t
ionofpracticall
ynotspeaki
ngofsexual it
y,and
i
nsteadspeaki ngofdesire,i
t’
sbecauseweconsi dert
hatt heprobl
emsofl i
feandcr eati
onare
nev
err educibl
etophy si
ologicalf
unctions,reproducti
vef unct
ions,
tosomepar ti
culardimension
oft
hebody .Theyalwaysi nv
olveelement sthatareeitherbeyondtheindi
viduali
nthesoci al
or
pol
iti
calfi
eld,orel
sebef oretheindiv
idual l
evel(Guatt
ar i
andRol ni
k[1982]2008,411).

Thisnon-represent
ational
isttakeon“sexualdif
ference”seemstocomecl osetoy ourreadingof
thi
sconcept .Yourproposal f
oranont o-
epist
emol ogyshowsushowmat ter(amongot hers
bodil
ymat ter)andmeani ngar eal
waysalreadyimmanent lyenf
oldedandtransi
ti
onal.Yet
i
nsteadoft akingatermf rom psychoanal
ysis(l
ikedesire)
,youbri
nginphy si
cs(Bohr’
s
conceptualapparatus).Howt henisquantum physicshelpi
ngyoui nar
ti
culat
ingyourfemi nism?

KB: AdecadeagoIwoul dof t

engett hef ollowi ngquest ion: “
Si ncey ourwor ki snotaboutwomen
orgender , whatdoesi thav etodowi thf emi nism? ”Myanswer ,ofcour se, was: “Ev erything.”
Happi l
y,thequest i
ony ouhav easkedi sl i
ghty ear sbey ondt heki ndoft hinkingt hatmot ivates
thatquest ion.AndIam assumi ngt hent hatt hel ev el ofconv ersat i
onhasshi f
tedsi ncet hatt i
me,
andt hatIcanj umpr ighti n.Eros, desire, l
ifef orcesr unt hroughev er yt
hing, notonl yspeci fi
c
bodypar tsorspeci ficki ndofengagement samongbodypar ts.Mat teritsel fisnotasubst rateor
amedi um f ort heflowofdesi re.Mat erialit
yi tselfi sal way sal r
eadyadesi ringdy nami sm, a
reit
erati
ver econf i
gur ing, energizedandener gizing, enl i
v enedandenl iveni ng.Ihav ebeen
parti
cularlyi nterestedi nhowmat tercomest omat ter .Howmat termakesi tselffelt.Thisi sa
feministpr ojectwhet herornott herear eanywomenorpeopl eoranyot hermacr oscopi cbei ngs
i
nsi ght.Alongwi thot hernewmat eri
ali
stf emi nist s—Vi cki Kirbyi snot ablei nt hi
sr egar d—f eeling,
desiri
ngandexper ienci ngar enotsi ngul archar act er i
st icsorcapaci ti
esofhuman
consciousness.Mat terf eels,conv erses, suf fers, desi res, y earnsandr emember s.Youcoul d
alsoseeNoel aDav is’ paperonnewmat erialism ont hi st opic( Dav i
s2009) .It ri
edt omaket his
pointmor ev ividinchapt er7ofmybook, whi chhasr ecei vedal otofi nterestandat tenti
on, but
l
essspeci fi
cal lyfemi ni stengagement .AndIt hi
nkt her ei sal otofi mpor tantf oodf ort houghti n
thischapt er, atleasti nmymi nd.SoIwantt ogoov ert his, becausei tisachapt ert hatget s
deeplyintot hephy sicsoft hi
ngs, andasar esul tmanyhumani tiesandsoci al sciencesschol ars
assumei tisi rrel
ev antt owhatt heyar et hinki ngabout .Ial way st eachphy sicsi nmyf emi ni
st
classes,inpar tpreci sel ybecausei tcallsi nt oquest iont heexcept ionallynar rowf r
ami ngof
scienti
ficconcer nsandsci entificli
teracyi nt hewayt hatIwasj ustt alkingabout .Whoi s
r
esponsi
bleforengagi
ngwi t
hscience?I
’dl
i
ket owal
kyouthr
oughsomeofwhat’sgoi
ngoni
n
t
hatchapter
,becauseIthi
nkitholdssomereal
lyi
mport
antwaysf
orret
hinki
ngsomekey
f
emini
stissuesaboutmatterandspaceandtimeandsoon.

Iwil
lgi
veyouasuper-
fastlessonofwhaty ouneedtoknowaboutquant
um physi
csandt hen
cometowhatisinChapter7t oshowy ousomeoftheresul
tsandwhatIthi
nktheimpli
cati
ons
arei
ntermsofthi
nki
ngaboutquest i
onsofsoci
alj
usti
ce,whi
chIthi
nkarekeyhere.Soherei
s
mycrashcour
seonquant um physics.

Accor dingt ocl assical phy sics,therear eonl ytwoki ndsofent i

ti
esi nthewor ld;ther ear e
particlesandt herear ewav es.Par ti
clesar ev erydi fferentf rom wav es.Par ti
cl esar elocal ized
entiti
est hatoccupyapar ticularpl acei nspaceandi nt ime, andy oucannothav et wopar ti
clesi n
thesamepl aceatt hesamet i
me.Ont heot herhand, ther ear ewav es, andwav esar enotent i
ties
atall.Wav esar edi stur bancesi nf i
elds.Ify out hinkaboutoceanwav es, youseet hatwav es
oftenov er l
apwi t
honeanot her.Theycanoccupyt hesamepl aceatt hesamet ime; thati spar t
ofwhatt heyar efamousf ordoi ng.Soont heonehand, wehav esomet hingl ocal ized, and, on
theot her ,wehav esomet hi ngv erynon- local i
zed.Ver ydi sti
nctki ndsofent i
ti
es, ont ol ogical l
y
speaki ng.I nphy sics, t
her ei sav erysimpl emachi net hatcanbeusedt of indoutwhet heritisa
particleorawav e, andi ti
scal l
edat wo- slitappar atus.Wheny out akeabunchofbal lsand
shoott hem r andoml yatt wosl its,whaty ouf indist hatmostoft hepar ticleswi ndupdi rectly
acrossf rom t het wosl its.Yougetsomet hingcal leda“ scat terpat tern.”Youcant hinkaboutt he
factt hati fIam wi ldlyt hrowi ngt ennisbal lsi nthisr oom att hedoor way ,mostoft hem ar egoi ng
towi ndupr i
ghtacr ossf r
om t hedoor wayandaf ewoft hem wi l
lscat t
ert ot hesi des.I ncont r
ast
tothat ,thinkofawav emachi ne, maki ngadi sturbancei nt hewat er.Andwhent hedi st urbance
hit
st hi ski ndof“ br eakwat er ”witht wohol esi nit,whathappensi st hatt hedi stur bancebul ges
outonbot hsi desandy ougett heseki ndsofconcent ric,ov erl
appi ngci r
clest hatgetf or ced
through, justlikewhenIdr opt wor ocksi napondsi mul t
aneousl y ,Igetanov erlappi ngof
concent riccircles.Thati sadi f
fractionpat ternandwhaty ouseei st hatt herei sar einf orcingof
wav es.Whent wowav esmeet ,crestt ocr est,theymakeahi gherwav e.Butsomet i
mesy ouget
acr estmeet ingat rough, andt heycancel out .Thatmakesf orav erydi fferentki ndofpat tern.

Now, whathappensi fwet estelectronswithatwo- sl

itappar atus?Youmi ghtthink, sincewe
usedt othinkofelectronsasl i
ttl
et i
nypart
icles,thattheywoul dgivemeapar ticlepat ter
n.But
theresultthatweact uall
ygeti sthatelect
ronsexhi bi
tadi ffracti
onorwav epatt ern.Butaswe
saw, dif
fracti
onpatternsar ecreatedbyov erl
appingwav es.Buthowcanel ect
ronsov erl
ap?
Theyar epar t
icl
es.Theycannotov erlapwi
t honeanot her.Youmi ghtthi
nkthatt heel ectronsare
ov er
lapping,butyoucant estthatbysendi ngoneel ectront hroughatat i
me.Ify ousendj ustone
electronthroughatat ime,y oubuiltupthi
sdi f
fracti
onpat tern.Itseemslikewecannotexpl ai
n
thisdiffract i
onpat tern;itseemsl i
keamy ster yhowt hispar ticleseemst obeact i
ngl i
keawav e.
Einsteini npar t
icul arwasv eryupsetaboutt hisandsuggest edt hatwedoanexper imentwher e
weact ual lywat cht heel ect r
ongot hrought hesl its.Iwantt ot al kaboutt hiswhi ch- slitdet ector
exper i
ment ,becauset hisi swhatIam bui l
di ngupt o.I nt hisexper iment ,whatIhav edonei s
replacet het opsl i
twi thasl i
tonaspr ing.Andi fthepar ticlegoest hrought het opsl it,i
timpar ts
someofi tsmoment um t ot het opsl i
tandi tmov esal it
tlebi t,thenIwi llknow“ Oh, itwent
throught het opsl i
t.”So, t
hi si sawayt omeasur ewhi chsl i
ttheel ectroni sgoi ngt hroughoni ts
wayt ot hescr een.AndEi nst einsaidi fwedot hisexper imentwewi l
lcat cht heel ect r
oni nt he
actofbei ngbot hapar t
icle,bygoi ngt hr oughonesl itort heot her ,andawav ebyshowi ngt his
i
nt erf
er encepat t ernandt heni twillshowt hatquant um mechani csi ssel f
-cont radi ctoryandt hat
wewi l
l hav et of i
ndsomeot herwayoft hinki ngabouti t
.AndBohrsai d: “No, notsof ast.”Ify ou
dot hisexper i
ment ,youhav enowr evisedt heappar at us.Andwhatweobser v einany
exper i
menti saphenomenonorent angl ementort hei nsepar abi li
tyoft heappar at usandt he
obser vedobj ect .Bohrsai dt hati fEinst einwer et omaket headj ust mentt ot het wo- slit
appar atushesuggest ed,hei sgoingt ogetapar ticlepat t ern, notadi ffractionpat tern.Now, one
shoul dl osesl eepov ert his.Becausewhatt hi sissay i
ngi st hatt heont ologyoft heel ect roni s
changi ngdependi nguponhowImeasur ei t.Letmej ustf inisht hequant um phy sicsl essonr eall
y
quickly.Bohrhasanexpl anat ionforthi s,whi chi st osay ,agai n, thatt hepr oper tiest hatwe
measur ear enotat tributabl et oindependentobj ect s.Independentobj ect sar eabst r
actnot i
ons.
Thi sist hewr ongobj ect iver eferent
.Theact ual object iver efer enti st hephenomenon—t hei ntra-
act i
onofwhatwecal l t
heel ect r
onandt heappar atus.Andsot hef actt hati t
sont ologychanges
whenwechanget heappar at usisnotasur prise, becausewear ei nvest igatinganent ir
ely
differ
entphenomenon.

Iwi l
l nowmov eintowhati si nChapt er7becauseIt hink, agai n, thatt herear ei mpor tantf emi nist
“l
essons”her e.Andofcour sewhenIsay“ feministl essons, ”thati sadi stortingshor thandIneed
toqual i
fy.Because, ofcour se,whatIam pr esent i
ngwi thagent ial r
ealism al readyhasf emi nist
l
essonsbui l
tintoit,andt hati spar toft hebeaut yofChapt er7.Atl eastformei tist he
i
ncr ediblesat isf
act i
onoft akingi nsi ghtsf rom f emi nistt heor y,ont heonehand, andi nsi ght s
from phy si cs,ontheot her,andr eadi ngt hem t hroughoneanot heri nbui l
dingagent ial realism.
Andf rom t heregoingbackandseei ngifagent ialrealism cansol vecer tainki ndsoff undament al
probl emsi nquant um phy sics.Andt hef actt hati tisr obustenought odot hat ,andt hatf emi nist
theor yhasi mportantt hingst osayt ophy si
csi samazi ng, absol utelyamazi ng, andkeyt ot he
pointIwantt omakeaswel l.Andi nf act, whenIwasabl et oact uallyshowt haty oucoul ddo
sciencewi thagent ialrealism andbr ingt hesei mpor tanti nterest s, thequest ioncamet omeof
whet herornotIshoul dpubl i
sht hisr esultinaphy sicsj ournal orl eavei tfort hebook, sot hat
phy sicist
swoul dhav etogot oaf emi ni
stbooki nor dert of indoutsomeoft hephy sics.Ichose
thel atter
, butinret r
ospectIt hinki twasami stake, becausei ttookav erylongt i
mef ort hebook
tocomeout( mor et hant hreey ear s)andbecausei tseemst hatsomephy sicistsareengagi ng
wi t
hmyi deaswi thoutacknowl edgi ngi t
.Pr acticesofpubl i
shi ngar eal way spol it
ical.
Comingbackt ot hei ssueathand, BohrandHei senber gweret otall
yatodds.Notonl yBohrand
Ei
nstein, butalsoBohrandHei senber g.Heisenber gt houghtthatt her easonwhyi tchanges
fr
om awav epat ternt oapar ticlepatternwheny ouchanget heappar at usi sbecausey ouare
di
sturbingt hepar ti
cle.Andt hispl acesal imi tonwhatwecanknow, becauseeach
measur ementdi stur bswhaty ouar emeasur i
ng.Andhecal ledt hatt he“ (Hei senber g)
UncertaintyPr i
nci ple,”whichIhav efoundi smor ef ami l
iart
oEur opeanaudi encest han
Americanaudi ences.ButBohrar gueswi t
hHei senber gandsay st hathemakesaf undamental
err
orinpr oposinguncer taint
y ,andwhati sati ssuei snotuncer taintyatal l
, butrat her
i
ndetermi nacy .Thati s,
whenwemakeameasur ement ,whathappensi st hati ti
snotamat t
erof
di
sturbingsomet hingandourknowl edgei suncer tainasar esult,butr athert herear enot
i
nherentpr operti
esandt herear enoti nherentboundar i
esoft hi
ngst hatwewantt ocallenti
ti
es
befor
et hemeasur ementi ntra-acti
on.Thati s,Bohri ssay i
ngt hatthingsar ei ndet erminate;t
here
arenot hingsbef oret hemeasur ement ,andt hatt hev eryactofmeasur ementpr oduces
deter
mi nat eboundar i
esandpr oper t
iesoft hings.So, hi
sisanont ological pr inci
pl erathert
han
anepistemol ogical one.Inot herwor ds, forBohrpar ti
clesdonothav eaposi tioni ndependentl
y
ofmymeasur i
ngsomet hingcal l
edposi ti
on.

Now, itseemst hatther eisnosci entifi

cwayt odiscer nwhoi sright,becausewhatwear e
tal
kingabouti sshowi nganempi r
ical resultaboutwhathappensbef or ey oudoany
measur ement .Soi tseemsl iket herei snowayt oev err esolvethat.Butact uall
ywecan.Thi sis
amazi ng!Wecandoexper i
ment almet aphy si
csnow, whi chofcour sei sj ustanindi cat oroft he
factthatt herehasnev erbeenashar pboundar ybet weenphy sics,ont heonehand, and
met aphy sicsorphi losophy ,ont heot her.Sot her eisanamazi ngandr eallyastonishing
experimentt hatphy sicistshav eonl ybeenabl etodoi nt hepastdecadeorsosi ncepr ev iouslyi
t
wasnott echnol ogicallypossi ble.Andt hesef amousGedanken-ort houghtexper iment sofBohr
andHei senber gcoul dnowbedonef ort hef ir
stt i
me, act ual
lybeper for medi nal abor at ory.They
nevert houghtaboutt hem act uallybei ngdone; theywer enotmeantt obeexper i
ment st hatgot
actuali
zed.Theywer emeantt obeexper i
ment stot hinkwi t
h,justtool st ot hinkwith.Butnowi t
i
st echnol ogicallypossi bletoact ual l
ydot hisexper iment —toshowwhathappenswhenI
measur ewhi ch-sli
t.WasEi nsteinr ightanddoIcat cht heel ectronbei ngbot hapar ticleanda
wav eshowi ngt hatquant um theor yissel f-
cont radictor y?Ori sBohrr ightt hatonceIact ual l
ygo
aheadandmeasur ewhi ch-
slit
,nowIgetapar ti
clepat t
er nandt hei nter ferencepat ter nisgone?
Butev enmor ebeaut i
f ull
ythant hat ,whatt hephy sicistshav edonei nt hiscasei st odesi gnan
experimentwher eHei senber g’sexpl anat i
onofdi stur bingsomet hingt hatal r
eadyexi sts, cannot
bepar toft heexpl anat ion.SoHei senber gi sdesi gnedoutoft hisexper i
ment .Ifi
thappens, i
tis
happeni ngf orsomer easonot hert hanadi sturbance.
Whati shappeni ngi sthatt herei sabeam ofat omscomi ngal ong; inf act, t
heyar erubi dium
atoms, andbef or et herubidium at omsr eacht hedoubl esl it,whathappensi st hatt herei sa
l
aserbeam whi chgi vest her ubidi um at omssomeener gy .Andwhathappenswhent heat om
get sener gy ,theel ectront hati si nthei nneror bi talofr ubi dium get ski ckedupt oahi ghener gy
l
ev el from t heener gyitgotf rom t helaserbeam.Nowi tisi n, whati scal led, an“ excit
edst ate.”
See, ther ei sal readyt alkofdesi rei nphy si
cs!Andt heni tgoesacr ossandi tgoest ot hese
cav iti
es, thesemi cromasercav ities.Thati sthewhi ch-slitdet ector .Youdonothav et oknow
any thingaboutmi cromasercav itiesatal lexceptt hi s:whent her ubidi um at om i nanexci ted
stat egoesi ntoonemi cr omasercav ityort heot her,t heel ect ronnecessar il
ydr opsbackdownt o
i
tsgr oundst ateandi ndoi ngsoi temi tsaphot onandi tleav est hist racephot oni nei thert he
uppercav ityort hel owercav it
yandt hengoesoni tswayt hrought het wosl i
ts.Sot her ubi dium
atom goesoni tswayt hrought het wosl i
tsandi thitst hescr een.Andt hati sourexper i
ment .
Now, ther easonwhyHei senber gi snotapar toft his, i
sbecausey oucanshowt hatbyget ting
ther ubi dium at om i nt
oanexci tedst at eandhav ingi tcomebackdown, i
tdoesnot hingt oaf fect
theat om’ sf or war dmoment um.I tisnotdi st
ur bed.Her ephy sicistshav ev er ycl everlymadea
whi ch- sli
tdet ect ort hatdoesnotdi sturbt herubi di
um at oms’ forwar dmoment um.Soi tisgoi ng
tol eav eat elltalet racei ndet ect oroneordet ect ort woofwhi chsl ititwentt hroughwi thout
distur bingi t.Nowi fyoudot hiswi thoutt hewhi ch- slitdetect or,justsendr ubi dium at oms
throughdoubl esl its,yougetadi ff r
actionpat ter n.Buti fyouputt hel asert hereandt he
mi cromasercav itiesandf indoutwhi chsl iti
tgoest hrough, theni tshi ftstoascat t
erpat ter nor
apar ti
cl epat ter n.Butt hatsecondonedef i
nitelyi sascat t erpat tern( rathert hant heal ter nat i
ng
i
nt ensi typat ter nofwav es).Ijustt oldy out hatt her ei snodi sturbancegoi ngonher esot hati s
amazi ngal ready .Itisamaz i
ngt haty oucannowshowt hatBohri srightandnotEi nstei n.

Butnowher ei swher eweasf emi nistsreallyneedt opayat tention, becausenowsomet hi

ng
reall
yamazi ngi scomi ngf orwar di nt hi
s,whi chi sthatsi nceIhav enotmadeadi stur bancei n
actuallymeasur i
ngwhi chsl ittheat om goest hrough, youmi ghtaskt hequest i
oni f,afteritgoes
throughandl eavesat el lt
al et r
ace( aphot on)i nonesl i
tort heot her ,
whathappensi fIeraset hat
i
nf ormation?Wi l
lIgett hedi ffr
act i
onpat t
ernagai n?Itwoul dbev er yhar d,i
ft her
ewasa
disturbance,tocompl et ely“un- disturb”itjustso.Butt hereisnodi sturbanceher e,remember ?
Sowecanaskt hequest i
on, ifIer aset hewhi ch-sl
itinfor mation,canIact uallygett hedi ff
racti
on
pat t
ern?Theer aserpar ther eist hatIam goi ngt oer aset hewhi ch- sl
itinformat i
onandher eis
howIdoi t.Ihav etheset wodi fferentcav iti
esandIt aket hewal l outbet weent het wooft hem,
thet womi cromasercav iti
es, andIputaphot o-absor bingplat erighti nbet weent hem.
Remembert hatther ubi dium at omsar eleftint hereandt heyhav egonet hroughandt heyhitthe
screen.Butt heyl eaveaphot on,aquant um ofl i
ght, i
nei thercav ityoneori ncav ityt wo.IfIputa
phot onabsor bingplatei nbet ween, theni fthephot onget sabsor bed, Ihav eer asedt he
i
nf ormationofwhi chsi dei tcamef rom.Sot hatishowIam goi ngt oer aset heinfor mat i
on.And
whatIam goi ngt odoi sIam goi ngt oputasetofshut ters(l
iket heshut tersy ouhav eforbl i
nds
ont hewi ndows, andy oucanmakei teit
hershutsot hatt hewi ndowscompl etel
yshutoutt he
l
ightoryoucanopent hem sothelightcomest hr
ough).Soifweputshut
tersthere,i
fthe
shutt
ersareclosed,
Ihavethesituati
onIhadbef orewhereIknowthewhich-sl
iti
nformati
on.
ButifIopentheshutt
ers,
Igiveitthepossibi
l
ityofbeingerased.

Andwhathappensher eact uallyisthat,ifIdot hisexper imentnowandopent heshutters,Ican

showt hatIact uallygetadi ffracti
onpat tern!Nowt hisget sev enstranger.SoIhav ethese
rubidi
um at oms, theyar eheadi ngtowar dt het wo-slitdetector.Theyleaveat ell
tal
ephot oni n
onepl aceort heot her.Theygot hrought het wosl itsandIam goi ngtolett hem alreadyhi t
,
compl etelyhitt hescreen.Nowaf terwardsIam goi ngt odeci dewhet herornott oopent he
shuttersander asethei nf
ormat i
onaboutwhi chslititgoest hrough.Thati scal l
ed“delayed
choice”mode.Andi fItracet heoneswhosewhi ch- sli
tinformationiserased, Igetadi ff
raction
pattern.Inot herwor ds, af
tert herubidium at om hasal r
eadyhi t,Iam abletodet erminewhet her
ornoti thadbehav edlikeapar t
icl
eorawav e.I
not herwor ds,whetherornoti thadgone
throughasi nglesl i
tatat ime, li
keapar t
iclewi l
l,
orgonet hroughbot hsli
tsatt hesamet imel i
ke
awav ewill.Inot herwor ds,afterithasal readyhi tthescr eenandgonet hrought heappar atus,I
am abl etodet ermineitsont ology,afterwar ds.

Sot hepointher ei
s:howdophy sicist sint
erpretthis?Thewayphy sicist
si nterpr etthisisby
sayingthatwehav etheabi l
it
ytochanget hepast .BecauseIam changi nghowi twentt hrough
theslitaft
erithasalreadygonet hr ought heslits.Sot her eisat al
kabouter asi ngwhatal ready
was, r
estoringthediffr
actionpattern, andbasi call
ymov ingt heclockbackwar dsorchangi ng
howt hepar ti
clewentthroughaf teri thasalreadygonet hrough: t
heabi l
itytochanget hepast.
NowIwantt osuggest,though,thatt hatisav eryconv enientkindofnost algicf antasy .Icannot
blamephy sicistsf
orengagi ngint his.Ithi
nkt hisisav er yseduct i
vef antasy .Per hapsatone
ti
meoranot herallofuswi shthatwecoul dchanget hepastandt hemar ksl ef
tonbodi es,and
changet heway sinwhi chwemat er i
alizedthewor l
d,especi allywhenwear enotbei ngcar ef
ul,
thatwewoul dli
ketoundowhathasbeendone, t
hatwewoul dli
ketogobackanddoi t
diff
erentl
y.Buti st
hisreall
ywhatt hisexper i
menti stellingusaboutwhati spossi bl
e?

Ittur
nsoutt hatifwel ookatt hisexperimentmor ecar efull
y—itisal l
explainedi nChapt er7—t he
origi
nal dif
fracti
onpat ter
nisnotbei ngrestor
edwhat soeverandt her eisnocompl eteerasure
goingonher eatall.Whati shappeni ngher ei
st hatt heexper imenti snotaboutengagi ngapast
thatalreadywas.See, weassumet hattimeisagi v enext ernal
ity,j
ustapar amet erthatmar ches
forward, andthatthepastal readyhappenedandt hepr esent,thatmoment“ now”j ustsli
pped
awayi ntot hepast,andt hatthef ut
ur eisyett
ocome.Buti fweex aminet hiscar ef
ully,
agai n
usingthei nsightsfrom feministtheor y
,from post-structurali
sttheor y,
andt hingsthatCultural
Studieshasbeent elli
ngus, andsoon, andbringt hem i ntothephy si
csher e, whatwecanseei s
thatwhati sgoi ngonact uall
yi sthemaki ngoft empor ali
ty.Therear equest ionsoft empor al
ity
thatarecomi ngt otheforeher e.Whatwear eseei ngherei sthattimeisnotgi ven,itisnot
universal
lygiven,butrat
hert hatt i
meisarticulatedandr e-synchronizedthr
oughv arious
mat eri
alpracti
ces.Inotherwor ds,j
ustl
ikeposi ti
on,moment um, wav eandpar ti
cle,timeitsel
f
onlymakessensei nthecont extofpart
icularphenomena.Sowhati sgoingonher eisthat
physicist
sar eactuall
ymaki ngt imeinmar kingt i
me, andthatt hereisacertainwayi nwhi ch
whatwet aketobet he“past ”andwhatwet aket obet he“present”andthe“ fut
ure”ar e
entangledwi t
honeanot her .Whatwehav el earnedfrom thisexper i
mentist hatwhatexi stsare
i
ntra-acti
veent angl
ement s.Thati stheonlyr easonwegetadi ff
racti
onpatternagai n,bytheway .

Andi mpor tantly, t

heor iginal diffract i
onpat ter ndoesn’ tret urn, anewonei scr eat ed, onei n
whicht hedi f
fract ion(thati s,ent angl ementef f
ect s)i sabi tchal l
engi ngt ot race.So, thei ssueis
notoneofer asur eandr eturn.Whati satissuei sanent angl ement ,intra-act i
vity.The“ past ”was
neversi mplyt her etobegi nwi th, andt he“ future”i snotwhatwi llunfold, but“ past ”and“ future”
areiterati
velyr econf i
gur edandenf oldedt hrought hewor ld’songoi ngi ntra-activ i
ty .Ther eisno
i
nher entl
ydet er mi naterel ati
onshi pbet weenpast ,pr esent ,andf uture.Inr ethinki ngcausal ityas
i
ntra-activi
tyandnotast hiskindofbi lli
ard-bal lcausal i
ty—causef ollowedbyanef fect —the
fantasyofer asur eisnotpossi ble, butpossi bilit
iesf orr epar at i
onexi st.That“ changi ngt hepast ”
i
nt hesenseofundoi ngcer taindi scr etemoment sint i
mei sani l
lusion.Thepast , l
iket hef uture
though, i
snotcl osed.But“ erasur e”i snotwhati sati ssue.I nani mpor tantsense, the“ past ”is
opent ochange.I tcanber edeemed, product ivelyr econf igur edi nani t
erat i
veunf oldingof
spacet i
memat ter .Butitssedi ment ingef fect s,itst r
ace, cannotbeer ased.Thememor yofi ts
mat eri
ali
zingef fectsiswr itt
eni nt ot hewor ld.Sochangi ngt hepasti snev erwi thoutcost s,or
responsibili
ty.Ar ecentPh. D.st udentofmi ne, Ast ri
dSchr ader( whosewor ki sr eal l
yr emar kable,
wellwor thlooki ngoutf or )hasanamazi ngpaperi nSoci al St udiesofSci enceent itled
“Respondi ngt oPf i
esteriapi scicida( theFi shKi l
ler):Phant omat icOnt ologi es,Indet ermi nacy ,and
Responsi bil
it
yi nToxi cMi crobiology ”(2010) , showi nghowpr eviouslyi ncompat ibleexper i
ment s
onat i
nyaquat i
cor ganism wi thlar geenv i
ronment al policyst akescanber econci ledbyt racing
howt imei sdif ferentlymade/ synchr onizedt hroughdi f
ferentl aboratorypr actices.Shear gues
thatmemor yisnotamat teroft hepast ,butr ecreat est hepasteacht i
mei tisi nv oked.

WhatIam tryi
ngt omakecl earis—allofthisisananswert oyourquest i
on,bel
ieveitornot —a
sampleofwhatIhav elearnedf r
om engagi ngwi t
hquantum physicsthathelpsmef ur
thermy
underst
andingoff eministissuesandpr actices.Mypassionformywor kisutt
er l
yand
completel
ygrounded, andhopef ull
yal wayswi thi
tsfeetatt
achedt otheground, i
nquestionsof
j
usticeandethics.Thisiswhatt otall
ydrivesme.SoIt hi
nkthereisawayi nwhi chthephy sics
hereactual
lyhelpsmet obr i
ngani mportantmat eri
ali
stsensetoDer ri
deannotionsofjustice-t
o-
come.Thatisnotj usti
cewhi chwepr esumeweknowwhati tisinadv anceandwhi chisforever
fi
xed.Sojusttoendt hisshor tanswerwi t
hacoupl eofquotesfrom Derri
da:
[Theconcerni
s]notwithhori
zonsofmodi f
ied—pastorf ut
ure—presents,
butwitha“past
”that
hasneverbeenpresent,andwhichneverwil
lbe, whosefutur
et ocomewi l
lneverbea
product
ionorareproducti
oninthefor
m ofpr esence(Derr
ida[1968]1982,21;
origi
nal
emphasis).

Andf
urt
her
mor
ethat
:

Nojusti
ce[ …]seemspossi bl
eort hi
nkablewi t
houtt heprinci
pleofsomer esponsi bi
lity
,beyond
al
lli
vingpr esent,wit
hint
hatwhi chdisjoi
nst heli
vingpr esent,
beforetheghost softhosewho
ar
enoty etbor norwhoareal r
eadydead[ …]
.Wi t
houtt hisnon-contemporaneit
ywi thitsel
fofthe
l
iv
ingpr esent[ …]wit
houtthisresponsibi
li
tyandt hisrespectforjusti
ceconcerningt hosewho
ar
enott her e,ofthosewhoar enol ongerorwhoar enoty etpresentandli
v i
ng,whatsense
wouldther ebet oaskthequest i
on“ where?”“wheret omor r
ow? ”“whit
her
? ”(Derr
ida[ 1993]2006,
xvi
i
i;ori
gi nalemphasis).

Sot hisi
sanexampl eofwhatIl ear nedf rom mydi f
fracti
veengagement swithphy
sics: what
responsibi
lityentail
sinouract iveengagementofsedi ment i
ngoutt hewor l
dincert
ainki ndsof
way sandnotot hers.Beingat t
entivet oway sinwhichwear er e-doing,wit
heachintra-
act i
on
mat eri
all
yre-doingt hemat eri
alconf iguri
ngsofspacet i
memat teri
ng.Thepastandt hepr esent
andt hefuturear ealway sbeingrewor ked.Andsot hatsay sthatt hephenomenaar edi ff
racted
andt empor all
yandspat i
all
ydistributedacr ossmultipleti
mesandspaces, andthatour
responsibi
litytoquest i
onsofsoci alj
ust i
cehav etobet houghtabouti ntermsofadi ff
erentkind
ofcausality.Itseemsv eryi
mpor tantt omet obebringingphy sicst ofemini
sm aswel las
feminism tophy sics.(Tounder standmyr esponseassomet hingl ear
nedf r
om physi
csand
appliedtofemi nism istohav emi sunder stoodsomet hingfundament alaboutwhatIam t ryi
ngto
say.)

Q5:Al otofschol arswi thintheHumani tieshav egr eatdi ffi

cultieswi thpost humani sttheori
es
especiallybecauset heyseem t ol ackanet hi
cs,andy oual readyt alkedaboutet hics.Especial l
y
wheny oubr i
nginphy si
cs, t
hiscr iti
quewi l
l nodoubtbeev enst ronger .Atsev eralmoment sin
yourwor k,howev er,oneget st hei mpr essi onthatt heet hicsi mpl i
citiny ourappr oachi sofgr eat
i
mpor tancet oy ou, asy oual readyment ioned.Obv iouslywhenonewant st obepar toffeminist
debates, itisimpossi blenott oar ticul
ateont o-epi
st emol ogyasanet hico-ont o-epistemology .I
n
your“Post humani stPer f
ormat ivity:Towar danUnder standi ngofHowMat terComest oMat ter”
(Barad2003)y ouremphasi sont hemat erial-
discursiveseemst ocriti
quet hei deaoft he
“medium. ”Thisi deaseemst ocl aimt hatt her earecasesi nwhi chmeani ngcanbenon- mater i
al,
i
deal i
sticallytr
av el i
ngt hroughspacewhi lenotbei ngaf fect edbymat ter,act uall
yremai ni
ng
ult
imat ely“ t
hesame, ”orunal tered.Yourt extsshowt hatt hi sideaoft hemedi um isinconf l
ict
wi
tht
hear
gumentt
hatmat
terandmeani
ngar
enecessar
il
yent
angl
ed.

Ourquestionthenwoul
dbehowt ounderstandthi
srel
ati
onal
ontol
ogythatr
eject
st he
metaphysicsofwhatusedtobecal
l
ed“ r
elata,
”ofwordsandthi
ngs.Howisanethicsatwor
kin
howmat tercomestomatter?

KB: Ithinkt haty oucanal readypr obabl yseef r

om whatIhav ebeensay ingt hatIbel i
ev et hat
quest ionsofet hicsandofj ust i
cear eal waysal readyt hr eadedt hrought hev eryfabr i
coft he
wor l
d.Theyar enotanaddi tional concer nthatget saddedonorpl acedi nourf ieldofv isionnow
andagai nbypar ticularki ndsofconcer n.Beingi st hreadedt hroughwi thmat t
ering.
Epistemol ogy , ontology ,andet hicsar ei nseparabl e.Mat tersoff act ,mat tersofconcer n,and
mat tersofcar ear eshott hroughwi thoneanot her .Ort oputi tiny etanot herway :mat t
erand
meani ngcannotbesev ered.I nmyagent i
alrealistaccount ,mat teri sady nami c
expressi on/ ar ti
culat i
onoft hewor l
di nitsintra-act ivebecomi ng.Al lbodi es, includi ngbutnot
l
imitedt ohumanbodi es, comet omat terthrought hewor l
d’si terat iveint r
a- activity,i
ts
perfor mat i
v i
ty .Boundar ies, proper t
ies, andmeani ngsar edi fferent iall
yenact edt hrought hei ntr
a-
activityofmat tering.Di fferent i
ati
ngi snotaboutr adical ext erioriti
es( wesawt hati nt he
exper iment sIj ustt al
kedabout )butr atherwhatIcal l agent i
al separ abi l
ity.Thati s,
diff
er entiatingi snotaboutOt hering,separ ating, butont hecont rar y,aboutmaki ngconnect ions
andcommi tment s.Sot hev erynat ureofmat eri
al i
tyi tselfisanent angl ement .Hence, whati son
theot hersi deoft heagent i
al cutisnev ersepar atef rom us.Agent ialsepar abili
tyi snot
i
ndiv i
duat i
on.Et hicsi sther eforenotaboutr i
ghtr esponsest oar adi callyext er i
orizedot her ,
but
aboutr esponsi bil
ityandaccount abilityforthel ivelyr elational iti
esofbecomi ng, ofwhi chwear e
apar t.Et hicsi saboutmat t
ering,aboutt akingaccountoft heent angl edmat eri
alizationsof
whichwear epar t,includingnewconf i
gurations, newsubj ect i
v i
ties, newpossi bil
iti
es.Ev ent he
smal lestcut smat ter.Responsi bi
lit
y ,then,isamat teroft heabi l
ityt or espond.Li steningf orthe
responseoft heot herandanobl igationt ober esponsi vet ot heot her,whoi snotent irely
separ atef rom whatwecal lthesel f.Thi swayoft hinki ngont ology ,epist emol ogy ,andet hics
togethermakesf orawor ldt hatisal way sal r
eadyanet hical mat ter.

Q6: Finall
y,i
fyouthenproposeamat eri
ali
stethi
csthroughphy sics,si
mi l
artothewaypeopl e
l
ikeBadi ou(2007)andMei l
lassoux([2006]2008)re-absol
utizethescopeofmat hemat i
cs,you
i
ndeedst i
ruppost-Kant
ianacademi a.Thishast ohaveconsequencesf orhowy ouvaluevarious
discipli
nes.Notfal
li
ngintothetrapsofdiscipli
nari
ty,mult
i-
disci
plinari
ty,i
nter
-di
scipl
inar
ity
,or
post-disci
pli
nari
ty,
howwoul dy outhenqual i
fyyourmanifestoforacademi cresearch?
KB:Wel l
,manifestoisat hingthatmyf r
iendandcol leagueDonnaHar awaycangeti nto,butI
cannotclaimthatterm.[ Laughs.]Ofcourse,shemeansi tir
onicall
y.Agenti
alreali
sm i
snota
manifesto,i
tdoesnott akef orgrantedthatalli
sorwi llorcanbemademani f
est.Ont he
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csandjusticeareatthecore
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ough“ my”verybeing, al
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concernweaddt othequest ionsofmat ter,
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Thistextistheresultofani ntr
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June6, 2009att he7t hEuropeanFemi nistResear chConf erence,hostedbyt heGr aduat e
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ersityforpr ovi
dingt hevideoconf erencingf acili
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es,Hel een
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bingtheev ent,andt heaudi encei nUtrecht(esp.Magdal enaGor ska, Sami
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ending.ret
urnt otext

Sci
ence,
Technol
ogy
,andt
heHumani
ti
es:
ANewSy
nthesi
s,Apr
il24‐
25,
2009.
ret
urnt
otext

Cont
ent
sNextSect
ionPr
evi
ousSect
ion

DOI
:ht
tp:
//dx.
doi
.or
g/10.
3998/
ohp.
11515701.
0001.
001

Publ
i
shedby
:OpenHumani
ti
esPr
ess,
2012

Host
edbyMi
chi
ganPubl
i
shi
ng,
adi
vi
sionoft
heUni
ver
sit
yofMi
chi
ganLi
brar
y.

Formor
einf
ormat
ionpl
easecont
actmpub-
hel
p@umi
ch.
edu.