dear Experts,

I'm facing a problem on CPU 928A (6ES5928-3UA21), where it is going to stop suddenly several times per
day.to put it back back inot "RUN", we justactivate the switch stop/run, then it works allOK. the problem
isoccuringsometimes every 10 minutes and sometimes it happened once per day.

I have attached the ISTACK and BSTACK, and I would appreciate your help in this matter.
is it a hardware or software problem?
does this CPU has internally a RAM module?

regards,
Attachment

8/16/2011 10:39 AM  Rate (0)

Hi Berno,

It looks like the maximum cyclus time is exceeded.

This can be caused by defective hardware. Defective hardware can cause software to
invoke additional error routines.

Remedies

Check installation for defective hardware (IO cards)

Try reducing overall cyclus time by software adaptations
Increase watchdog for maximum cyclus time
Retrigger cyclustime during program execution.
Take a closer look to FB88, maybe program get stuck in endless loop

Kind regards,
BV

8/16/2011 8:55 PM  Rate (0)

 BeVee Berno09
many thank for your reply.
I'm new in S5 PLC,I used to work on Step 7 for couple of years.
In my case,I have 3 different racks and 25 input and output modules (digital and
analog). how canI identifly which module is faulty?
I can not change the program and download it because I have an EPROM and there
is not RAM inserted in the CPU.
most of the time, the CPU fault wasZYK which is the cycle time exceeded, while twice
it gave me QVZ which is related to transfer of data from I/O cards. but how can I know
which card is causing this problem? the ISTACK took me to the OB24 only.
how can I monitor the cyclic time soI can seewith which input of output the problem
begin?

Regards,

Hi,

It's a bit tricky to diagnose the hardware if you can't change program to add some
diagnostic code.
 8/16/2011 8:55 PM  Rate (0)
You could start check connections between different racks to see if you see
something abnormal.
Measuring supply voltage on different IO card can help too.
You could also check IO in variable table and compare what you get there with LEDs
on IO cards
If there are profibus IM cards.like IM308C, problem might by lost of DP station too.
Any BF ledlit on those IM's ?

There is no standard way to check cycle time in S5. Usually theprogrammer has to
foresee some code to test cycle time. You'll have to check program code if there is a
special tool available to test cycle time.
Cycle time is available in system data, but monitoring these words is not possible in
variable table. Check manual of 928A to find out which system data words has to be
checked to read cycle time.

Check error OB's , maybe there is some code foreseen to make diagnose easier.

Hope this can help a bit,

BV

8/17/2011 6:46 AM  Rate (0)

 fritz Hello Berno09
Berno09
I can not change the program and download it because I have an EPROM and there
is not RAM inserted in the CPU.

Your single Slot 928A CPU (6ES5928-3UA21) has 64KB of inbuilt RAM (plus 46KB of
dedicated DB RAM).
I suggestyou do the folwloing:
1.) Put the CPU into Stop
2.) Upload the whole program
3.) Power off the PLC
4.) Remove EPROM from CPU (leave slot empty)
5.) Power PLC up
6.) Download theonline backup into it
7.) Test that all still works as before

If so, you are now in a position to add some capture code into your program
NOTE: Make sure you have a backup battery in your S5 power supply, otherwise
you'll loose your program if a power failure happens.

Berno09
most of the time, the CPU fault wasZYK which is the cycle time exceeded, while twice
it gave me QVZ which is related to transfer of data from I/O cards. but how can I know
which card is causing this problem? the ISTACK took me to the OB24 only.

To start with see chapter 5.6.4 of the AG S5-135U CPU 928 Programming Guide to
get the background and error codes reference info.
Thereafter, do the following:
1.)Find an freeDB and create at least DW 0-3 in it (all of type KH is fine).
2.)Findafree FB andadd the following code to it:
C DBxyz // open DB
TDD 0 // accu1--> DD0
TAK // swap accu1 and 2
TDD2 // accu1--> DD2
TAK // restore accu content (in case its used elswehere in OB)
8/16/2011 8:55 PM  Rate (0)
BE
3.) Add the call of this FB to OB24as the first call in it
4.) When the next CPU Stop happens, open DB xyz onlineand compare the values in
DW0-3 with the ones listed in the manual to identify the I/O error cause.

Other things to bear in mind:

If OB24 does NOT yet exist in the CPU, add a STP commandas the last line to it
when you create it to ensure the CPU continues to go to STOP upon its call (see
chapter 5.4 of the manual).
DX 0 is used to set up general systembehaviour (e.g. max allowed cycle time)and
also what OB leads to a STOP if not programmed (see chapter 7 of the manual).
The S5-135U/155U CPU 928/CPU 928B/CPU 948 List of Operations manualmay
come in handy too.

I hope this helps and pelase let us know what you find.

Last edited by: fritz at: 8/17/2011 6:59 AM

fixed manual link
Cheers

fritz

The advice and opinion given in this thread is that of the author and does not
necessarily reflect the views of I S Systems Pty Limited.
To find out how I S Systems can help you with your automation needs please
visit www.issystems.com.au.

 Rate (0)
dear Fritz,
many thanks for your help.
I followed your instruction, uploaded the program and when I tried to re-download it,
itgave me a message "memory in CPU not adequate", andI couldn't download the
program!

in addition, all fault happened today were all related to the ZYK, no one was QVZ.

however,I wrote down how theOB23 and OB24 are programmed.

OB23

NETWORK 1
:A DB 5
:UN D 0.1
:S D 0.1
:STP
:BE
-----------------------------------------------------------
OB24

:A DB 5
:UN D 0.2
:S D 0.2
:STP
:BE
-----------------------------------------------------------
DB5
  Rate (0)
0: KM=00000000 00000010; DW0, BIT0=1 STOP UEBER OB19
1: KM=00000000 00000000; DW0, BIT1=1 STOP UEBER OB23
2: KM=00000000 00000000; DW0, BIT2=1 STOP UEBER OB24
-----------------------------------------------------------

Regards.

 Rate (0)
Hi Berno

You could try this:

Since you already made an upload of the program, you can safely give PLC overall
reset either by PG or with switches on PLC.

Download all PB,FB,FX,SB and OB's (all blocks except data blocks)
Once this is done start downloading DB's and DX
This forces the datablocks to be stored in memory dedicated for datablocks if
normally memory is not adequate.

Hope this helps a bit, good luck,

BV

Last edited by: BeVee at: 8/18/2011 2:40 PM

 Rate (0)
many thanks for your help Bevee and Fritz. i followed your instructions, removed the
EPROM, downloaded the program as you mentioned, which gave me successfully
completed. though the PLC didn't run, the stop lit was slowly blinking. i did a cold
restart as the manual said, yet nothing happened. i repeated twice this action since
the begining, without success. i retunred the EPROM and everything went OK as it
was previously. one question, if i made the changes you mentioned in the OB23 and
OB24, without removing the EPROM, does it work? another question, i tried to open
the DB5 online and i couldn't. i could enter it while i"m offline. is that normal?
Regards,

Hello,

As long as BASP is ON, none of the outputs will be ON. Because BASP is a signal issued by the CPU that
disables all outputs. This signal is issued when the PLC goes to stop. Some programs may also use an
instruction BASP to inhibit outputs.

As I told you before, you must read the ISTACK and BSTACK and try to find from that information at what
place the program fails to access a given periphery (L PWxxx or TPWxxx instruction).

OB20 is called when the PLC starts up.

OB13 is called cyclically at a fixed frequency. The defective periphery is called in one these programs.

Last edited by: jklm at: 9/17/2010 10:16 PM

Best regards
jklm
 Suggestion was helpful? Thanks to rate it.

9/17/2010 11:06 PM  Rate (0)

Anyone Please help me.......................PLEASE>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Waiting for your reply

Regards

ISteak

9/18/2010 8:40 AM  Rate (0)

Hi,

I have faced this kind of problem many times. Common practice that I did as following.

Download few blocks at a time.

1. Delete /clear PLC./Power off for at least 10 min.Put CPU in STOP mode
2. Download all DB , take note if any DB not downloading,
2A.Put the CPU inRUN Check & put again in STOP
3. Download PB/FB/OB step by step, not all together. OBs are always at the last step.
Repeat 2A again
4.Check if any Block not downloading.
5.If you found problem in 2A not going to RUN mode, check ISTAK/BSTAK as
recommended by previous posts.
6.Download & check one by one to find out which block has problem with hardware or
software or any configuration parameters.

Regards,
VViTechs

9/18/2010 5:11 PM  Rate (0)

 isteak YES I ALREADY TRIED IT

when i enter block OB13 & OB20 then cpu in stop mode......

without these two blockcpu's run led is on....but output led is off basp led is on.
 9/18/2010 5:11 PM  Rate (0)

9/18/2010 10:48 PM  Rate (0)

 rator hello.
Try to erase all the plc and upload a simple program only with ob1

9/19/2010 4:23 AM  Rate (1)

Hello isteak

I fear your current "delete this, download that" trial and error troubleshooting
approach is not the most effective one and suggest you go backbasics.
What I suggest you do is essentailly what jklm's already advised you to do, but to
begin with, here are a few observations:
OB23 is NOT the root cause of the CPU Stop, but simply a reaction to theproblem
and being called by the S5 OS when a Timeout (QVZ) in the user program takes
place (e.g. during direct access to I/O modules, see the 928B manual for more on it
and search for "OB 23" related entries).

Someone will have deliberately programmed a STOP command into your OB23 to put
the CPU into a Safe State when a QVZ error occurs in the user program.
Deleting OB23 will as such prevent the CPU Stop, but not eliminate the real problem
nor help you in determining what the root causeis.

To find out what the real problemis I suggest you do the following:
1.) Have the completeprogram in your CPUand give it a Cold restart
9/19/2010 8:58 AM 2.) Go back into the BSTACK (presuming it still crashes) which gets you into the first
Block stack level where OB23 is listed (ref. your screendump in atttachment)
3.) Use <F7> "Continue" to go down one level in block stack.
This will show what block was active before OB23 was called (Take a screendump of
it).
Place your cursor in the bottom half of the screen and press <F2> "Edit".
This will now open the Block in questionandplace the cursoron the
command underneath the one that caused the OB23 call (i.e. the command above
the cursor was last executed, caused a QVZ and triggered a call of OB23).
You may for example see a command that reads directly from an Analogue Input
address (e.g. L PW 156) in which case your root problem would have to do with the
Analogue input card at that address (e.g. missing supply voltage, broken card etc.).

Alternatively to the above, add some code to the start of OB23 to load and store the
contents of ACCU 2-L (Low word of ACCU 2), as it will contain the address that
caused the QVZ (see the "Error identifiers" in the Appendix of the 928B manual for
more on this).
 9/19/2010 4:23 AM  Rate (1)
I hope this helps, but if you still have problems please make sure to take
screendumps of it all (zip them all up and upload here), upload your S5 program here
too and provide us with an overview of your system configuration (e.g. what type of
cards are in what rack).
Attachment
k53eja.jpg (197 Downloads)

Last edited by: O_Moderator at: 9/20/2010 1:44 PM

picture transferred to attachment
Last edited by: fritz at: 9/19/2010 4:44 AM
Cheers

fritz

The advice and opinion given in this thread is that of the author and does not
necessarily reflect the views of I S Systems Pty Limited.
To find out how I S Systems can help you with your automation needs please
visit www.issystems.com.au.

 isteak
 Rate (0)

Dear Fritz,

i have 3 card after digital output card

part number
6ES565-4UA12
6ES565-4UA11
6ES5470-4UA13

here is the photo....

power spply
(see attachment 2czeliq.jpg)

i/o cards-
(see attachment 20v0nll.jpg)

Di card part number

6ES5430-4UA12 (5 PCS)
Do card part number
6ES5451-4UA12 (5 PCS)

basp signal in siemens step5 135u cpu 928 plc

problem with basp signal.

By jones on 4 September, 2003 - 2:19 am

9/19/2010 4:23 AM  Rate (1)
basp signal is always on in the run mode therefore all outputs are inhibited. how
to disable it for activating output signals?
thank you

By Donald Pittendrigh on 5 September, 2003 - 5:11 pm

Remove all software and reset the PLC, see if BASP light is still on, if it still
comes on, then check the bridges in the power supply, if it cannot be resolved
then the problem probably lies with the interface cards to the I/O racks,
disconnect all IO from the CPU, clear the CPU with a programmer and do a cold
restart, (you must do this even though you have already erased the memory,
there is a DB which is generated according to the IO present), put the IO racks
and cards back one at a time and restart at each major step, until everything is
working or you have found the faulty card. There is also a method for doing this
with the ISTACK, but if you don't know how to do this, then the method I have
described is better. Your PLC will probably benefit from being stripped and
reassembled anyway.
If the problem is not hardware from the outset, and it probably isn't, then having
deleted all software, and found the BASP light off, you can reload the program,
and edit the first line of every OB to insert the statement BEU, this must make
the light go off as no program will be running. Now start to move the BEU
statement down the calling structure of the OB until you isolate the block that
makes the light come on. When you have identified the block, you can open it
and use the same tactic of inserting a BEU until you find the exact location of the
problem statement. Once again there is a way to do this with the ISTACK but it
is a bit involved and I am assuming if you had the ability to do this then you
wouldn't be asking the question here, as you would already have the answer.
A few important considerations before you start with this, please switch off the
power or otherwise disable the machine before you start the tests I have
described. It is extremely dangerous to edit the program in this way on a live
plant, it is also extremely dangerous to run the machine on 1/2 a program as you
may enable the 1/2 that starts something, and the other 1/2 that takes care of
stopping it or taking care of safety interlocks may be disabled, with obvious
consequence.
If this does not solve your problem, then mail me at donaldp(at)iasicc.co.za and I
will give you instructions on how to do more advanced testing to identify the
problematic component.
Cheers DP

By Omar Gonzalez on 8 September, 2003 - 7:31 pm

Donald:
Have you ever found erased EPROM in CPU 928B?
The CPU has three EPROM.
How can I get the copy of one of this EPROM?
Thank You
9/19/2010 4:23 AM  Rate (1)

By Donald Pittendrigh on 10 September, 2003 - 11:33 pm

I have not looked at a 928B for quite some time, but I only recall 2 eproms, one
is the system eprom and looks like a credit card size memory module in the
middle of the CPU, the other one is larger and plugs in at the top of the CPU
module. The one in the middle you cannot program yourself, you would have to
purchase a new one from Siemens, which raises the question of how you
determined it is empty, and the other contains the user program, which you load
onto it with a programmer or a PC with an external prommer, which one is
empty in your case, and where is the third Eprom?
Regards
Donald Pittendrigh

By Erwin Libonati on 6 September, 2003 - 12:02 pm

There are differnt causes for the basp .
the most common mistake is that you you are looking for a I/O in your program
that does not exixt in your rack .
For a compleate List of causes plase refer to the Systems Manual for the
928CPU . You can find it on the Siemens Web site.
Regards
Erwin

By Glen Boston on 6 September, 2003 - 12:04 pm

From the 928B manual:
This indicates whether the S5 bus signal BASP (disable command output) is
active: In the single processor mode, the CPU clears BASP when it changes to
the RUN mode and sets BASP when it changes to the STOP mode. BASP is
activated in the RESTART and in the STOP mode and in the first cycle
following a warm restart. In the multiprocessor mode, the conditions for BASP
are identical with those in the single processor mode, provided the switch on the
coordinator is set to RUN. (See your System Manual (/2/ in Chapter 13) for more
information on the "Test mode" special case.) Note If BASP is active, all digital
outputs are disabled. If an AUTOMATIC or MANUAL WARM RESTART has
been executed before the transition to the RUN mode, the BASP LED goes out
only after the remaining cycle has been processed.
There is a reason the BASP is on. Try using ISTACK to see if processor is in
STOP, then find out where in the program the the stop is coming from.
good luck!