been dead serious about certain things: learning, listening, finding mentors,

forming relationships, and evolving as a musician and as a human being.

John Raymond talks about intensity, disappointment, and his new Roots Trio

John Raymond by John Rogers

As I write this, I�m listening to jazz trumpeter/composer John Raymond�s next CD, a
not-yet-released collection of 10 tracks recorded earlier this year with the
acclaimed pianist Dan Tepfer, the in-demand bassist Joe Martin, and legendary
drummer Billy Hart.

It�s a group of musicians the Minnesota native and Eau Claire grad would not be
recording with if he hadn�t moved to New York in 2009, hit the ground running, and
been dead serious about certain things: learning, listening, finding mentors,
forming relationships, and evolving as a musician and as a human being.

He�s very good at all of those. His first CD, �Strength and Song,� came out in
2012, a solid debut. The new one, tentatively titled (for now) �Foreign Territory�
after the first track, is still his music, still his presence and clear, radiant
tone, but better. Stronger, smarter, more soaring and swinging.

Raymond returns to the Twin Cities this weekend with his New York-based Roots Trio
for a concert and another recording session. The trio features Raymond on
flugelhorn, guitarist Gilad Hekselman, and drummer Colin Stranahan. They�ll play
Saturday at Studio Z, the St. Paul listening room run by Zeitgeist, the new music
chamber ensemble.

We spoke when he was here in July, and before then in January (and also in March
2012, soon after the release of �Strength and Song�). In conversation, he�s open
and direct, confident in his abilities but without arrogance or attitude. This
piece combines parts of our two most recent exchanges. I asked the questions, but
he gave the answers, so I�ll get out of the way.

On intensity

JR: What I�ve realized in New York is that the intensity level is always there.
People play with so much intensity all the time that it took me a little bit to get
on that plane. Now that I�m there, now that I realize what that feels like, I hate
anything that doesn�t feel like that � The music is all that we as musicians have.
If you�re not going to put 100% into it, why do it? I don�t want to hear something
that lacks that intensity, that commitment.

There�s a certain rhythmic intensity that has to happen in jazz. A certain melodic
intensity. And harmonic intensity. After that, it�s all a personal stand � You just
want to do something that�s honest to you. What�s honest to me now looks different
than it did three years ago. And I have to honor that. If I�m committed to that, it
doesn�t matter what it sounds like, it�s going to work.

On learning to lead

In my first couple years in New York, I was doing a lot of reacting. I would be in
these musical situations, playing with people a lot better than me, and thinking I
wanted everybody to be on an equal playing field � for everybody to have a say in
what was happening in a given musical moment. I realize now that when I�m the
soloist, I direct where the music goes. As a bandleader, I have to direct and lead.
I�ve always felt like a capable leader, I�ve always realized I have those skills,
but now I have the tools to lead more fluidly and effectively.
On embracing the unknown

The people I love to make music with are people who push me into the unknown. I�ll
go into something where I don�t know what�s happening or what�s going to happen and
embrace it. My motto recently has been, �Just jump off the cliff. Just go.�

One of the big things I realized musically is that I was trying to control all of
these things � my sound, improvising, the arc of a solo I would take, or the arc of
a whole song. I wanted so much control! Then I saw that the people who are most
inspiring to me would abandon that control and go with something spontaneous and
unknown. That, to me, has been the thrill. I�ve gotten into not knowing what�s
going to happen next. At first, that was kind of terrifying. But now I�m okay with
it. The unknown is one of the most exciting parts about jazz.

On being himself

I�ve been getting together off-and-on with Matt Merewitz of Fully Altered Media.
He�s an important publicist on the jazz scene, and I felt that he would tell me
honestly and bluntly what he thought about me � One thing he told me right at the
beginning was, �You need to stop trying to be like Ambrose [Akinmusire]. You need
to think about who you are as a white, Minnesotan, Christian jazz musician.�

There was something about the white music/black music thing that made sense to me.
A voice in my head said �Stop trying to be who you�re not. Be who you are. You�re a
Minnesotan white dude who grew up in a Lutheran church.� So, what does that mean
for me? What does that look like? It�s changing how I�m playing, and how I try to
improvise.

When I started getting into Lee Konitz, I saw that Lee is not trying to be like
anybody else. He never has. He doesn�t care anything about what anybody else
thinks.

On playing the tune

I know what aspects I bring to the music, in terms of improvisation. I know I�m not
a super-free player like Taylor Ho Bynum. I�ve been bred to have a really great
sound, so in that way, I�m going to be different. I know that I think about music
in a certain way. I want people to hear that I understand the tradition, because I
do. So some of the things I�ve told myself over the last couple of years are, �Stop
playing to try to impress people. Be okay with just playing the tune, playing the
changes, playing something that is melodically really great.� What makes Lee Konitz
so great is that he plays a lot of amazing stuff, but it�s not like he�s
reinventing harmony or melody.

John McNeil [trumpeter and producer of Raymond�s new CD] has harped on me to get
more of a vocal quality in my sound and how I play. The people we tend to connect
most with as improvisers have a primal vocal quality. The music sings to you.

On who he�d like to work with someday

I desperately want to one day make a record with Dave King. To me, he�s a drummer
who�s the perfect combination of everything. Maybe it�s because I�m from [the Twin
Cities] and there�s a certain thing about that, but when I saw him at the Vanguard
with Billy Carrothers and Billy Peterson, it was incredible. I stayed for both
sets. I was going to go somewhere else after the first set, but I said to myself,
�You�re not going anywhere.�

I�d kill to work with Brian Blade. Brian Blade and Dave King are two people I would
love to record with at some point in my life.

On how his new Roots Trio came together

Last year, I ended up doing two different recordings. Both were with Gilad, and
ever since we recorded �Strength and Song� he was always my first-call guy. There�s
some kind of connection I feel with him � the way he makes music, and our
relationship. There�s something there that I really want to keep. So I pared it
down to a quartet � Gilad and I and a bass and drums. We recorded two different
times with different musicians, and both of those times I played only flugelhorn.

Both of those recordings didn�t turn out how I wanted them to. There was just
something about them that didn�t feel right.

For a while, I�d been thinking about doing a project with just a trio, with a
different instrumentation � something a little fresher, something I�m not used to
hearing or feeling. I emailed the guy who books The Bar Next Door in New York,
which is a trio venue with no piano. I was just trying to get a gig, and thinking
as I�m writing the email that I should propose a gig with me and guitar and drums.
The guy knows Gilad really well, and Gilad plays there a lot. We ended up booking a
gig. I had thought about Colin, but he couldn�t make that one, so Eric Doob, who�s
another great drummer in New York, ended up doing it.

Then I thought, let�s just scrap the whole originals thing. Let�s play songs that
people are familiar with, whether that�s folk songs or hymns or indie rock tunes,
and incorporate some standards in there, too. I spent a while getting the music
together, working out certain arrangements, but I didn�t work out too much. I just
wanted to throw it at people. And we did the gig, and it was a really special night
of music, and I could feel it, and Gilad felt it, too.

Part of the heartbeat of jazz is the joy that comes from the spontaneity. I have
known that intellectually for a while, but after the Roots trio gigs and playing
with Billy (Hart), it has come full circle. Something I�m telling myself a lot
these days is, �Just make it feel good. Have fun with it and be happy about the
music you make.� I notice a difference in how I feel and how everybody else reacts.

On the flugelhorn-guitar combination

I�ve transitioned to only playing flugelhorn with the trio. I think it sounds great
with guitar. That comes out of the Art Farmer/Jim Hall influence. Farmer is one of
the only people who�s known for playing mainly flugelhorn. I got a new flugelhorn,
and there�s something about it and just playing flugel in general that has brought
out a voice in me that I didn�t have playing trumpet.

The Art Farmer/Jim Hall groove inspired the whole pairing, and now I�m putting it
in a different context, which is kind of cool.

On what the Roots Trio will record

We�ll be doing an arrangement of �This Land Is Your Land,� and an arrangement of

�Blackbird,� the Paul McCartney tune. With a jazz sensibility. The nature of the
instrumentation, specifically flugelhorn and guitar, will lend a rootsy feel to
things, for lack of a better word, so I�m not as concerned about squeezing the jazz
out of it.

We�re doing an arrangement of �Scarborough Fair� by Simon and Garfunkel. An

original, �Thaddeus,� in dedication to Thad Jones, based on his song �Three and
One,� so it�s a contrafact. We�ll do a couple original songs of mine. Probably a
Chris Morrissey tune, �Minor Silverstein,� off his �North Hero� record. An
arrangement of �Amazing Grace,� an arrangement of �Be Still My Soul,� and an
arrangement of the hymn �I�ll Fly Away,� which most people have probably heard on
the soundtrack for �O Brother, Where Art Thou.� A Thom Yorke song that [Twin Cities
saxophonist] Chris Thomson introduced to me long ago that always stuck with me.

I think that�s it � 12 or 13 songs. I�m trying to plan compositionally and be smart

� use my intellect in a good way to keep things interesting and fresh, but also
leave a lot of space to let the musicians do their thing. That�s one of the
strengths of the band.

On his disappointment after �Strength and Song,� and what has changed since then

When I put out �Strength and Song� [in 2012], it was like � okay, I�ve got a record
now. I�m going to try to play all these festivals. I�m going to get an agent and
play all these clubs. I was so gung-ho to make a big splash. But I didn�t have much
success. It definitely opened a lot of doors, but it didn�t have the impact I was
hoping it would.

That was disappointing, and hard to go through. I didn�t get a DownBeat review or a
JazzTimes review. I didn�t get many good reviews from notable press. I was upset
about that at first, that I didn�t get those reviews.

Then I had a conversation with the sax player John Ellis. He lives pretty close to
me, and we�ve gotten together a few times for sessions or seeing each other at
gigs. I think we were riding the train home from some gig together, talking about a
whole bunch of things, and I was asking about the business side of music � we were
going down that road � and his thoughts on certain things. At one point he said to
me, �Remember that ultimately it�s not about any of that. It�s about the music. If
you put 100% of your energy into making your music the most honest and high-level
you possibly can, everything else will take care of itself.�

That conversation has stuck with me. Instead of thinking �I should�ve gotten this
review� or �I should�ve done this,� or �those people should�ve liked the record� or
whatever, just focus on the music. I�ve learned so much about how to take care of
the music, and how to invest the heart and soul of my energy into that. Nothing has
happened yet with the record with Billy, and we haven�t even recorded yet with
Gilad and Colin, but I can already sense that things are very different from me
than they were three years ago.
___________

I feel like the album captures the seed of something on its way to becoming more
honest and beautiful, and I think there's a certain �magic" to that that makes it
special to me." �John Raymond

�Electrifyingly new and strangely familiar at the same time�with his mix of modern
sounds and old-fashioned feeling, Raymond is steering jazz in the right direction.�
�Downbeat Magazine

Few young musicians truly find success when they spread their wings in the Big
Apple. That Twin Cities native trumpeter John Raymond found plenty of work as a
sideman and leader within a few years of his graduation from the University of
Wisconsin-Eau Claire is in part testimony to his artistic talent, in part to his
tenacity in marketing his music. Both have served him well on the New York scene:
In addition to completing his master's degree under Jon Faddis at SUNY- Purchase,
Raymond has gigged regularly with his own ensembles throughout the Manhattan club
circuit and on national tours; participated in the renowned Festival of New
Trumpet; received the 2015 Herb Alpert Young Composer Award; and released a well-
received recording on Fresh Sound/New Talent, featuring the great drummer, Billy
Hart (Foreign Territory, 2015). Fortunately for Twin Cities' audiences, John
returns �home" often, and on one of those visits in fall 2014, he performed at
Studio Z with what he then called his Roots Trio (with guitarist Gilad Hekselman
and drummer Colin Stranahan). Shortly thereafter, the trio went into Terrarium
Studios in Minneapolis to lay down the tracks that became Real Feels, to be
officially released in February on the Twin Cities label, Shifting Paradigm
Records. Prior to the trio's New York release (Cornelia Street Cafe on February
11), they're celebrating on a mostly Midwest tour, landing in St. Paul at Vieux
Carr� on Saturday, January 23 (9 pm), followed by a master class at MacPhail Center
for Music on January 24 (1 pm).

From �Roots" to �Real Feels"

Real Feels is a unique project on several levels. For the first time, John relies
solely on the flugelhorn. �I�ve transitioned to only playing flugelhorn with the
trio," he told Bebopified's Pamela Espeland before the Roots Trio gig in St. Paul.
�I think it sounds great with guitar. That comes out of the Art Farmer/Jim Hall
influence. Farmer is one of the only people who�s known for playing mainly
flugelhorn. I got a new flugelhorn, and there�s something about it and just playing
flugel in general that has brought out a voice in me that I didn�t have playing
trumpet."

The trio instrumentation is unusual�just flugelhorn, guitar and drums, somewhat

akin to the Paul Motian/Joe Lovano/Bill Frisell Trio. �The bass- less vibe is very
unique,� says Raymond. �Gilad is one of the only people I know that function so
effortlessly in a situation like this. In a sense I�ve given him all control of the
harmony, comping, and different textures, and I feel that he really thrives in this
setting.� An Israeli native, guitarist Gilad Hekselman has developed a stellar
reputation over his first decade in New York, winning the 2005 Gibson Montreux
International Guitar Competition, releasing four recordings as leader, and sharing
the stage with such notables as Chris Potter, Mark Turner, John Scofield, Anat
Cohen, Ari Hoenig, Esperanza Spalding, Gretchen Parlato, Jeff 'Tain' Watts and
more. Denver native Colin Stranahan was selected as a Brubeck Fellow after high
school graduation and as a participant in Betty Carter's Jazz Ahead program, and in
2012 placed third in the Thelonious Monk International Drum Competition. Notes
Raymond, �Colin was someone that I played a handful of sessions with before doing
some gigs together. He's got such a natural feeling for the music- amazing
instincts and he's always really in-the-moment. He brings a sense of
unpredictability to this band- in the best kind of way."

Also setting this album apart from many of its contemporaries is the setlist, which
reflects the original trio name �Roots," connecting Americana folk (Woody Guthrie's
�This Land Is Your Land", the Appalachian hymn �Amazing Grace"), traditional
English balladry via modern American rock ("Scarborough Fair"), and American gospel
(I'll Fly Away") to classic bebop (Charlie Parker's �Donna Lee"), pop (Lennon and
McCartney's �Blackbird"), alternative rock (Thom Yorke's �Atoms for Peace) and
modern jazz (Dave Holland's nod to Charles Mingus, �Blues for CM"); John provides
one original track, the opening �Thaddeus." This might seem to be a step back as
Raymond's first two recordings provided more original material. But, he says, �I
thought, let�s just scrap the whole originals thing. Let�s play songs that people
are familiar with, whether that�s folk songs or hymns or indie rock tunes, and
incorporate some standards in there, too."

And he is not concerned that much of the setlist comes from places other than jazz,
noting that �the nature of the instrumentation, specifically flugelhorn and guitar,
will lend a rootsy feel to things, for lack of a better word, so I�m not as
concerned about squeezing the jazz out of it." And the familiarity of most of the
material has allowed the musicians to make a more direct connection with the
audience. �I�ve really sensed a different connection with audiences when playing
this music with this band," says John. �It�s coming from such a genuine place for
all of us that I think it really connects with people in a profound way. That�s
precisely why I named the band Real Feels."

John Raymond and Real Feels (Shifting Paradigm Records, 2016) Still, a �unique"
project is only memorable if well executed, and here the trio shines brightly.
Without piano or bass, the music has a raw edge, providing a fresh immediacy
regardless of the tune's origins in medieval England, Appalachia, bebop or
contemporary rock. The one original, �Thaddeus," opens the set, Raymond noting that
his tribute to Thad Jones is �based on his song 'Three and One,' so it�s a
contrafact." Spare with wide spaces, flugelhorn harmonizes with guitar, drawing
energy from the splatter-patter of Stranahan's drums, the trio filling in spaces as
they move along with some Monkish turns.

The traditional gospel hymn �I'll Fly Away" gets a funky intro from Hekselman,
feeling much like a march down Bourbon Street as it generates a lot of sound for
three musicians. Hekselman particularly plays multiple roles, conjuring bass, banjo
and guitar all at once, while Stranahan fills dual roles as well with bass
drum/snare/cymbal action, and Raymond brings the flugelhorn to the higher end of
sassy brass. In a different spiritual direction, �Amazing Grace" covers two tracks,
the intro track a solo improv on flugelhorn that folds into a fairly straight
reading before Hekselman's long guitar solo, creating an exquisite country prayer.
The flugelhorn returns with an unmistakable call to church as the guitar mimics the
church organ.

On �Atoms for Peace," Hekselman appears to be using a looper to maintain what

sounds like a bass vamp throughout the track, while also drawing ethereal effects
from the guitar. The trio thus sounds like a quartet or quintet; Raymond's
flugelhorn is elegant and haunting in the mode of modern European ensembles.
Reaching back to Charlie Parker on �Donna Lee, the trio creates a sketchy, spartan
feel to their conversation, particularly effective in the weaving of flugelhorn and
guitar, maintaining the essence of Parker throughout their unique interpretation.

�Scarborough Fair" nods to both American folk-rock (Simon and Garfunkel) and the
traditional English song, yet wrapped in a modern jazz feel. Again the pairings of
lines and harmonic statements from flugelhorn and guitar, and the underlying pacing
from Stranahan (especially from the toms and cymbals), yields glorious
understatement. As if from the other side of the Earth, Dave Holland's �Blues for
CM" is given a swampy foundation via guitar and drums, like Mingus Meets Dave Torn.

The intro to �This Land Is Your Land" doesn't give much hint of the tune. Raymond's
whiney flugel, followed by agile twists from Hekselman, does not suggest �Redwood
Forests" but perhaps more �New York Island," more rush hour traffic than majestic
mountain trails! But the terrain is rugged and filled with ups and downs, twists
and turns, and the final recall of the melody does indeed feel like home. The final
track, �Blackbird" starts as a slow meander down a country lane or a float down a
lazy stream. Graced by Stranahan's fluttery brushes and cymbals, it's sweeter, more
nostaligic, than the original from Lennon and McCartney.

�I think it captures exactly who this band was at the time," notes John. �It was
pretty early on in the band's existence that we recorded this music, and so in a
lot of ways I feel like we've really evolved and deepened in our chemistry with one
another since we recorded it. I also feel like my vision and concept for the group
has really developed since then, too..." As for the next step in his evolution and
vision, John says, �I actually feel like both this and my last record [Foreign
Territory] were both in the 'seed' stage, and thus I'm sensing the need to continue
to grow each of them. I have tentative plans to record again with Billy, Dan and
Joe [Hart, Tepfer, Martin] for another quartet record in May, and I'd like to
record Real Feels again, maybe later in the year or early in 2017. But I'm
definitely going to keep focused on these two projects primarily and see where they
lead artistically and otherwise."

What unites these two directions is the creative searching of John Raymond as he
moves from �foreign territory" into the music that feels �real"� ideas that have
solid roots in the musical traditions of the distant past as well as the broadly
defined present, and all that adds up to a very bright future.

Real Feels CD Release Tour

John Raymond and Real Feels celebrate the CD release in the Twin Cities on January
23 (9 pm) at Vieux Carr� (408 St Peter Street, lower level of the Hamm Building in
downtown St. Paul); $12 cover, cash only.

"I feel like the album captures the seed of something on its way to becoming more
honest and beautiful, and I think there's a certain "magic" to that that makes it
special to me." --John Raymond

�Electrifyingly new and strangely familiar at the same time�with his mix of modern
sounds and old-fashioned feeling, Raymond is steering jazz in the right direction.�
- Downbeat Magazine

John Raymond
Few young musicians truly find success when they spread their wings in the Big
Apple. That Twin Cities native trumpeter John Raymond found plenty of work as a
sideman and leader within a few years of his graduation from the University of
Wisconsin-Eau Claire is in part testimony to his artistic talent, in part to his
tenacity in marketing his music. Both have served him well on the New York scene:
In addition to completing his master's degree under Jon Faddis at SUNY-Purchase,
Raymond has gigged regularly with his own ensembles throughout the Manhattan club
circuit and on national tours; participated in the renowned Festival of New
Trumpet; received the 2015 Herb Alpert Young Composer Award; and released a well-
received recording on Fresh Sound/New Talent, featuring the great drummer, Billy
Hart (Foreign Territory, 2015).

Fortunately for Twin Cities' audiences, John returns "home" often, and on one of
those visits in fall 2014, he performed at Studio Z with what he then called his
Roots Trio (with guitarist Gilad Hekselman and drummer Colin Stranahan). Shortly
thereafter, the trio went into Terrarium Studios in Minneapolis to lay down the
tracks that became Real Feels, to be officially released in February on the Twin
Cities label, Shifting Paradigm Records. Prior to the trio's New York release
(Cornelia Street Cafe on February 11), they're celebrating on a mostly Midwest
tour, landing in St. Paul at Vieux Carr� on Saturday, January 23 (9 pm), followed
by a master class at MacPhail Center for Music on January 24 (1 pm).
From "Roots" to "Real Feels"

John Raymond
Real Feels is a unique project on several levels. For the first time, John relies
solely on the flugelhorn. "I�ve transitioned to only playing flugelhorn with the
trio," he told Bebopified's Pamela Espeland before the Roots Trio gig in St. Paul.
"I think it sounds great with guitar. That comes out of the Art Farmer/Jim Hall
influence. Farmer is one of the only people who�s known for playing mainly
flugelhorn. I got a new flugelhorn, and there�s something about it and just playing
flugel in general that has brought out a voice in me that I didn�t have playing
trumpet."

Gilad Hekselman
The trio instrumentation is unusual --just flugelhorn, guitar and drums, somewhat
akin to the Paul Motian/Joe Lovano/Bill Frisell Trio. "The bass-less vibe is very
unique,� says Raymond. �Gilad is one of the only people I know that function so
effortlessly in a situation like this. In a sense I�ve given him all control of the
harmony, comping, and different textures, and I feel that he really thrives in this
setting.� An Israeli native, guitarist Gilad Hekselman has developed a stellar
reputation over his first decade in New York, winning the 2005 Gibson Montreux
International Guitar Competition, releasing four recordings as leader, and sharing
the stage with such notables as Chris Potter, Mark Turner, John Scofield, Anat
Cohen, Ari Hoenig, Esperanza Spalding, Gretchen Parlato, Jeff 'Tain' Watts and
more. Denver native Colin Stranahan was selected as a Brubeck Fellow after high
school graduation and as a participant in Betty Carter's Jazz Ahead program, and in
2012 placed third in the Thelonious Monk International Drum Competition. Notes
Raymond, "Colin was someone that I played a handful of sessions with before doing
some gigs together. He's got such a natural feeling for the music - amazing
instincts and he's always really in-the-moment. He brings a sense of
unpredictability to this band - in the best kind of way."

Colin Stranahan

Also setting this album apart from many of its contemporaries is the setlist, which
reflects the original trio name "Roots," connecting Americana folk (Woody Guthrie's
"This Land Is Your Land", the Appalachian hymn "Amazing Grace"), traditional
English balladry via modern American rock ("Scarborough Fair"), and American gospel
(I'll Fly Away") to classic bebop (Charlie Parker's "Donna Lee"), pop (Lennon and
McCartney's "Blackbird"), alternative rock (Thom Yorke's "Atoms for Peace) and
modern jazz (Dave Holland's nod to Charles Mingus, "Blues for CM"); John provides
one original track, the opening "Thaddeus." This might seem to be a step back as
Raymond's first two recordings provided more original material. But, he says, "I
thought, let�s just scrap the whole originals thing. Let�s play songs that people
are familiar with, whether that�s folk songs or hymns or indie rock tunes, and
incorporate some standards in there, too."

And he is not concerned that much of the setlist comes from places other than jazz,
noting that "the nature of the instrumentation, specifically flugelhorn and guitar,
will lend a rootsy feel to things, for lack of a better word, so I�m not as
concerned about squeezing the jazz out of it." And the familiarity of most of the
material has allowed the musicians to make a more direct connection with the
audience. �I�ve really sensed a different connection with audiences when playing
this music with this band," says John. "It�s coming from such a genuine place for
all of us that I think it really connects with people in a profound way. That�s
precisely why I named the band Real Feels."

John Raymond and Real Feels (Shifting Paradigm Records, 2016)

Still, a "unique" project is only memorable if well executed, and here the trio
shines brightly. Without piano or bass, the music has a raw edge, providing a fresh
immediacy regardless of the tune's origins in medieval England, Appalachia, bebop
or contemporary rock. The one original, "Thaddeus," opens the set, Raymond noting
that his tribute to Thad Jones is "based on his song 'Three and One,' so it�s a
contrafact." Spare with wide spaces, flugelhorn harmonizes with guitar, drawing
energy from the splatter-patter of Stranahan's drums, the trio filling in spaces as
they move along with some Monkish turns.

The traditional gospel hymn "I'll Fly Away" gets a funky intro from Hekselman,
feeling much like a march down Bourbon Street as it generates a lot of sound for
three musicians. Hekselman particularly plays multiple roles, conjuring bass, banjo
and guitar all at once, while Stranahan fills dual roles as well with bass
drum/snare/cymbal action, and Raymond brings the flugelhorn to the higher end of
sassy brass. In a different spiritual direction, "Amazing Grace" covers two tracks,
the intro track a solo improv on flugelhorn that folds into a fairly straight
reading before Hekselman's long guitar solo, creating an exquisite country prayer.
The flugelhorn returns with an unmistakable call to church as the guitar mimics the
church organ.

On "Atoms for Peace," Hekselman appears to be using a looper to maintain what

sounds like a bass vamp throughout the track, while also drawing ethereal effects
from the guitar. The trio thus sounds like a quartet or quintet; Raymond's
flugelhorn is elegant and haunting in the mode of modern European ensembles.
Reaching back to Charlie Parker on "Donna Lee, the trio creates a sketchy, spartan
feel to their conversation, particularly effective in the weaving of flugelhorn and
guitar, maintaining the essence of Parker throughout their unique interpretation.

John Raymond talks about Real Feels, lessons learned from Billy Hart, and being a
new dad

John Raymond by Josh Goleman

Brooklyn-based jazz trumpeter John Raymond is a frequent visitor to the Midwest. He
grew up in Minneapolis, where his family still lives, and went to college in Eau
Claire. He returns to see his family, gig with old friends and, more recently, play
CD release shows: for �Strength and Song� in 2012, �Foreign Territory� in 2015 and
now �John Raymond and Real Feels,� his latest, available in February.

For �Real Feels,� Raymond organized � on his own � an ambitious two-part touring
schedule of 26 performances and master classes in 22 cities on 22 days, beginning
Jan. 21 in Indianapolis and ending Feb. 26 in Akron, OH, after swings through the
Midwest and the West. On Saturday, Jan. 23, �Real Feels� came to Vieux Carre in St.
Paul.

The self-released �Strength and Song� was Raymond�s first album, recorded as the
John Raymond Project with Gerald Clayton on piano, Gilad Hekselman on guitar, Tim
Green on alto sax, Raviv Markovitz on bass and Cory Cox on drums. It�s mostly
original compositions, a solid introduction to his songwriting skills and
distinctive tone.

For �Foreign Territory,� recorded with pianist Dan Tepfer, bassist Joe Martin and
legendary drummer Billy Hart and released by Fresh Sound, Raymond re-imagined and
transformed familiar standards, basing �What Do You Hear?� on �I Hear a Rhapsody�
and �Deeper� on �How Deep Is the Ocean?� He added some originals, including the
strong title track, and let Hart, Tepfer and Martin do their thing on �Hart of the
Matter,� a brief free improvisation captured in the studio. �Foreign Territory� was
a Downbeat editor�s pick and earned high praise from Nate Chinen of the New York
Times, both big deals for a young jazz musician. Raymond won a 2015 Herb Alpert
Young Jazz Composer Award from ASCAP for �Deeper.�

�John Raymond and Real Feels,� on the Twin Cities-based collective label Shifting
Paradigm, is a bassless trio with Raymond on flugelhorn, Hekselman on guitar and
Colin Stranahan on drums, playing some very familiar tunes: �Amazing Grace,�
�Scarborough Fair,� �This Land Is Your Land.� It�s simpler, looser and more relaxed
than �Strength and Song� or �Foreign Territory.� Raymond, Hekselman and Stranahan �
then called the Roots Trio � recorded it in Minneapolis soon after playing a
concert in St. Paul in Sept. 2014.

�Real Feels� could have come out in fall 2015, but Hekselman was on the road with
his fifth album as leader, �Homes,� Stranahan was busy and it seemed best to wait.
So though the new CD is technically not brand new, it feels like a new direction.
Stripped down and agile. Still jazz, but other things, too. Wide open.

In live performance before a full house at Vieux Carre � SRO in the first set � the
trio took already fine music and kicked it up several notches, playing with
infectious joy and the kind of skill that makes you glad to be there in person.
This is a very good band, a band of brothers. Just before the final tune of the
night, which no one actually called, Raymond said, �That�s the nice thing about
this band. You can just do something, and something happens.�

Raymond and I have formed the habit of meeting for long, rangy conversations once
or twice a year, catching up on where he�s been, looking ahead to where he�s going,
finding out where his head is at and also, often, his heart. Our most recent talk
was in Minneapolis on Dec. 29, just before the turn of the year.

PLE: You were the Roots Trio when you went into the studio to record this music,
and now you�re Real Feels. What happened?

JR: Band name change. Big moment. I decided to change it partly of my own volition,
and partly because the other guys were saying, �You know, this kind of sounds too
much like The Roots.� Or �roots music.� Which to some extent it is, for me, but not
in the way that maybe it�s thought of. And I felt like �trio� made it sound too
jazzy.

Turns out that band names are hard to come up with. I spent three or four weeks
making list after list. Then suddenly I thought � Real Feels. I looked back and had
actually written that down on one of my first lists.

What does Real Feels mean to you?

When I think about playing with this band, and the band itself, it feels very
authentic to who I am, and it feels very real. It helps that it�s a trio, because a
trio can function in a different capacity than a larger group. It�s smaller, more
intimate. There�s a different sense of communication going on. I feel like when we
play for audiences, that�s a huge selling point. People come away saying, �Wow, we
can really connect to this band.� A lot of people have told me they don�t really
like jazz, but they love this band.

Real Feels: Colin Stranahan, John Raymond, Gilad Hekselman

Photo by Josh Goleman

Many people have said they don�t like jazz without knowing what they�re talking
about.

Yes, and that�s fine, but it meant something to me. It was like � okay, I must be
doing something that�s connecting with them. For me, with this band and this music,
there�s a continued feeling of no pretense. It�s just who I am. It�s a much more
relaxed version of myself.

The �Foreign Territory� version of myself is more searching and introspective. But
I�m thinking about doing another record with Billy and Dan and Joe. I did a really
short tour with that band in September and it was awesome. A life-changing
experience. Three days with Billy! I came out of it very different.

Different how?

There�ve been times when I�ve played with Billy and felt like he was playing too
loud for what I wanted, or pushing me in directions I might not have wanted to go.
I always kind of felt like he wasn�t listening. We had a couple conversations
during the tour that opened my eyes to his process.

He told me about a time when he talked with Tony Williams. Billy asked Tony if
Miles [Davis] had ever told him anything specific to do, during the second great
quintet. Tony said the only thing Miles ever said was �Keep me up there.�

Billy took that with him. He said that every trumpet player he�s ever played with
more or less wanted the same thing.

He said that and left it with me, and I had to process it and chew on it. He didn�t
explain it at the time.

I asked him about it toward the end of the tour. He said it didn�t mean volume or
range or whatever. It meant intensity. Billy knows that a trumpet player has to
bring a different intensity level than everybody else because that�s what the
trumpet demands.

He said that even when he played with Art Farmer � who I love and asked him about a
lot when we were playing together � Art would call tempos that Billy could hardly
play, they were so fast. Those were symbols, or signals, of the intensity of Art�s
playing.

Billy also talked about how all trumpet players came out of the Big Band tradition.
That�s why they�re as strong and intense as they are. I told Billy that I had a
thorough education in playing with big bands. He said to me, �You need to go back
and check that out, and deal with that a little more.� That got me thinking, �Do I
play differently in a big band than I do in my quartet?� And the answer was yes.

When I talked to him about that, he said it wasn�t a volume thing, but a projection
thing. �You have to assert yourself,� he said. He told me about playing a gig with
Ron Carter. Ron came up to him on a set break and said, �Billy, I can�t hear your
opinion.�

Billy let me process that and chew on it, and I took it to mean that I need to be
more assertive with my own voice and what I really want to say.

The last night of the tour � the night before had been disappointing, at least in
my own mind � I decided to put it all out on the table. I didn�t care what anybody
thought, and I don�t even know what was going through my head, but it was clearly
the best the band had every played together, and I�m convinced it was because I was
more assertive than I had ever been. And Billy played totally differently. As soon
as he felt that I was asserting myself, he followed me instead of pushing me.

I think when I felt like he was playing too loud and pushing me, he was actually
just trying to get me to voice my opinion. He was saying, �Come on! Be assertive!
You gotta come up to here! Here�s the intensity level!�

That was a life-changing night. I came away feeling like, �Okay, I know I have it
in me now. I can play like this.� So now I just have to do it all the time.

Is it hard?

It�s hard for me because I thrive when I feel comfortable, whether that�s with
somebody else in a conversation or on the bandstand. I don�t like being in
situations that feel hostile or uneasy. That�s something I�ve had to work through,
because I�ve realized I have to create my own comfort, no matter what the
situation.

I feel like there�s a voice in me now saying, in a stronger way than ever before,
�Be yourself. Do your thing. Don�t wait on anybody else, don�t worry about anybody
else. To some extent, don�t even listen.� I�m obviously listening and wanting to
communicate with the musicians and the people I�m around, but I can�t let that be
the deciding factor.

When you�re playing in someone else�s band � with Orrin Evans and his Captain Black
Big Band, for example � don�t you run the risk of overstepping?

With Orrin, it�s unique because he wants that. He encourages it. We have this
weekly Monday-night thing at Smoke Jazz Club, and we�ll do largely the same songs
every week in different order, maybe throw in some curveballs we haven�t done for a
couple of weeks. Even if it�s expected that a song will start out with a certain
intro, or a certain person is going to solo, there have been times since this tour
when I have felt so strongly I have to play � I want to play right now � that I�ll
just start taking an intro. Orrin will be like, �Okay, you got it.� Everybody else
is cool with it, too.

You�ve been playing with a lot of interesting people: Orrin Evans, Ethan Iverson,
Sullivan Fortner. When Colin Stranahan was unavailable for some of the trio dates,
Rudy Royston stepped in.

Rudy told me a story about playing with Ron Miles. I�ve never met Ron Miles, but I
love Ron Miles. Ron was one of Rudy�s mentors growing up, and they would do all
sorts of gigs together. Rudy remembers doing a gig at a country club, some private
event where Ron was playing the most avant-garde, out stuff. At first Rudy thought
� what�s happening? The thing he told me is that Ron has always done his own music
in his own way.

In recordings I�ve heard, I can sense that here�s someone who has a strong musical
vision, and is also a warm, kind, lovely person. I really want to meet him. In
February, Real Feels is going to Denver � that�s where Colin is from � and we�re
doing a clinic at Ron�s school. I�m excited.

In an interview with Revive, you said this about Real Feels: �The music we play all
ties back to my roots as a simple, faith-centered Midwesterner.� I get the �faith-
centered Midwesterner,� but �simple�?

I�m seeing �simple� as maybe in comparison to the people I�m around in New York.
And Midwestern life is so much simpler than New York life.

Are you still struggling with living in New York?

Yeah, a little bit. Especially now with [baby daughter] Nora. [Wife] Dani and I
both love the Midwest, and we love Minneapolis. But I also love Brooklyn and where
I�m at and being around the people and things I�m around. There are definitely
trade-offs.

When I come home for vacation � granted, it�s vacation � life is simple here.
That�s what Real Feels feels like to me. It brings out that part of my personality
that�s comfortable, relaxed, and simple. I�m not distracted by the hustle and
bustle of the industry and the city, the press and labels. That�s how I feel coming
home. Not necessarily that I�m a simple individual.

With Real Feels, we�re pushing the music. But it�s not an urgent push. It�s more
like � let�s take it here. It�s more of a joyous surprise than a search, search,
dig, dig. I guess the ambitious part of me comes out in the �Foreign Territory�
music, and my domesticated fatherhood comes out in Real Feels. Something like that.

You�re enjoying being a dad?

Love it. It�s great. The best! It helps when you have a really great, sweet little
daughter. She�s been the best baby and she�s cute as heck.
I beam when I talk about her. Everybody says that. I go into full-on dad mode.

What are your hopes and expectations for 2016?

First, we�re doing a couple of tours. I�ve basically done all of the work myself,
which has been incredibly strenuous with a child. It was definitely overambitious,
and it has ground me down and worn me out.

While I�m excited to have done it and I think it�ll be great for me and the band, I
realize I can�t do things like that and have a sense of saneness and normalcy and
be a good dad and a good musician. It took too much time and energy. A lot of
hours, details, and organizing, contacting a lot of venues and a lot of schools.
I�m trying to branch out into other parts of the country where I haven�t been.
We�re playing at Dazzle in Denver, the Blue Whale in Los Angeles and the Royal Room
in Seattle.

I bought a whole bunch of Real Feels merch to sell. That�s a totally new thing, and
I�m taking a risk with it, but I�m excited to see what happens, especially with
this band, because I think this is the kind of music where people will be into the
merch thing.

I�ve taken a lot of risks in 2015 and done a lot of stuff. I feel like 2016 is
going to be a year when I�m recalibrating. I don�t think I�ll spend as much time or
effort booking big-scale things like tours because I want more time for the music.
2015 was a business experimentation year. In 2016, I want to keep advancing the
music, making smarter choices now that I have that experience and have taken those
risks.

What about your teaching?

I teach [at the United Nations International School] three days a week. Twenty-
three students, mostly private lessons, some paired lessons. I have the middle
school jazz band and a class of beginning fifth-grade trumpet players.

For a long time, I wanted teaching to be the side thing, but I�ve realized that
teaching is part of my identity. I want it to be more of a main thing, but not lack
depth and ambition with music, performing, writing and recording. I�ve realized in
the past six months how much I love teaching. The reason why is the connection with
the students, beyond music. My role is only half to teach them music. The other
half is to be a figure in their lives who can impact them and shape how they see
the world, how they see themselves. Teaching them what hard work looks like, and
what discipline looks like. I think that�s the father in me coming out.

Teaching is more rewarding to me sometimes than playing out. So I think 2016 will
be more of a year of being okay with that and maybe performing a little less. And
when I am performing, doing that with more depth and assertiveness.

Who inspires you these days?

Dave Douglas. Here�s a guy who admits that in his first five years in New York, he
wasn�t doing well and wasn�t getting called. I�m still not getting many calls to be
a side man, which has been hard. Dave kept doing his own thing, and now he is where
he is today.

I�ve gotten to know Jon Irabagon. I think he�s one of the most fascinating
musicians on the scene � all the stuff he does with different bands. He�s in Dave�s
band, and Mostly Other People Do the Killing, and he does his own stuff.
After that tour with Billy, Dan and Joe in September, I felt a strong sense that I
need to go back and do some homework with certain things, holes in my playing. I
got so into Lee Konitz, and I knew he was a [Lennie] Tristano man, but I�d never
really checked out Tristano. So I started to get into Tristano and I�ve been
obsessed with his order and melodicism. I�ve been digging in on a deeper level and
trying to get that into my playing.

I�m also really into Mark Turner. I transcribed a Mark Turner solo I really wanted
to check out, on a blues. I�ve been studying it, how he�s thinking about navigating
certain chord changes, certain parts of the form and phrasing. Turner got hooked on
Warren Marsh, who was a Tristano disciple.

One of my other goals � I�ve said this for a year now � is to get a lesson or two
with Lee Konitz. And Mark Turner.

What happens in a lesson with someone like Lee Konitz or Mark Turner?

I don�t know! I�m curious. I�ve heard that lessons with Lee are a lot of singing
and playing. And going back and listening to Lester Young. With Lee, a lesson could
last a few hours. With Mark, I�ll bet it will last an hour. I literally live a
block away from Mark, so it�s silly I haven�t contacted him up to now. I want to
pick his brain about how he adapted Tristano.

I think Mark is incredible. He�s one of those people who balances � Billy even said
this � the Coltrane virtuosity on the horn and a lyrical, melodic sense.

Along with becoming a father, what was the high point of the year for you?

I don�t think it was one moment, but a gradual thing of becoming more comfortable
in my own skin. Becoming a father helped that, because it made me realize on a
logistical level that I don�t have time for certain things anymore. It prioritizes
things. It also made me play music way better. It�s just more sacred to me now.

You�ve mentioned wanting to be more melodic.

We visited Nashville this summer � me and Dani and Nora � because they had an
exhibit on Bob Dylan and Johnny Cash. It was a cool experience for me because I
felt it was very much along the lines of what I�m into with Real Feels.

Are you drawn to country music?

I�m drawn to it in the sense that it�s about storytelling. White American music
traces back to country music, simple folk songs that tell stories about a time, a
place, a person or whatever. I�ve been drawn to that, trying to communicate that as
an improviser, trying to tell a story without words that gets across the same kind
of feeling that a Johnny Cash song does, or a Bob Dylan song.

When I think about what I can contribute to music, I feel like it�s going to be
down that road, in an instrumental, lyricless way. I�m going to spend a lot more
time this year composing. I haven�t composed much this year. One way I can make my
voice unique, assert myself more and grow is through my compositional voice.

This interview has been edited and condensed.

"Scarborough Fair" nods to both American folk-rock (Simon and Garfunkel) and the
traditional English song, yet wrapped in a modern jazz feel. Again the pairings of
lines and harmonic statements from flugelhorn and guitar, and the underlying pacing
from Stranahan (especially from the toms and cymbals), yields glorious
understatement. As if from the other side of the Earth, Dave Holland's "Blues for
CM" is given a swampy foundation via guitar and drums, like Mingus Meets Dave Torn.

The intro to "This Land Is Your Land" doesn't give much hint of the tune. Raymond's
whiney flugel, followed by agile twists from Hekselman, does not suggest "Redwood
Forests" but perhaps more "New York Island," more rush hour traffic than majestic
mountain trails! But the terrain is rugged and filled with ups and downs, twists
and turns, and the final recall of the melody does indeed feel like home. The final
track, "Blackbird" starts as a slow meander down a country lane or a float down a
lazy stream. Graced by Stranahan's fluttery brushes and cymbals, it's sweeter, more
nostaligic, than the original from Lennon and McCartney.

John Raymond
"I think it captures exactly who this band was at the time," notes John. "It was
pretty early on in the band's existence that we recorded this music, and so in a
lot of ways I feel like we've really evolved and deepened in our chemistry with one
another since we recorded it. I also feel like my vision and concept for the group
has really developed since then, too..." As for the next step in his evolution and
vision, John says, "I actually feel like both this and my last record [Foreign
Territory] were both in the 'seed' stage, and thus I'm sensing the need to continue
to grow each of them. I have tentative plans to record again with Billy, Dan and
Joe [Hart, Tepfer, Martin] for another quartet record in May, and I'd like to
record Real Feels again, maybe later in the year or early in 2017. But I'm
definitely going to keep focused on these two projects primarily and see where they
lead artistically and otherwise."

What unites these two directions is the creative searching of John Raymond as he
moves from "foreign territory" into the music that feels "real" -- ideas that have
solid roots in the musical traditions of the distant past as well as the broadly
defined present, and all that adds up to a very bright future.

John Raymond talks about intensity, disappointment, and his new Roots Trio

John Raymond by John Rogers

As I write this, I�m listening to jazz trumpeter/composer John Raymond�s next CD, a
not-yet-released collection of 10 tracks recorded earlier this year with the
acclaimed pianist Dan Tepfer, the in-demand bassist Joe Martin, and legendary
drummer Billy Hart.

It�s a group of musicians the Minnesota native and Eau Claire grad would not be
recording with if he hadn�t moved to New York in 2009, hit the ground running, and
been dead serious about certain things: learning, listening, finding mentors,
forming relationships, and evolving as a musician and as a human being.

He�s very good at all of those. His first CD, �Strength and Song,� came out in
2012, a solid debut. The new one, tentatively titled (for now) �Foreign Territory�
after the first track, is still his music, still his presence and clear, radiant
tone, but better. Stronger, smarter, more soaring and swinging.

Raymond returns to the Twin Cities this weekend with his New York-based Roots Trio
for a concert and another recording session. The trio features Raymond on
flugelhorn, guitarist Gilad Hekselman, and drummer Colin Stranahan. They�ll play
Saturday at Studio Z, the St. Paul listening room run by Zeitgeist, the new music
chamber ensemble.

We spoke when he was here in July, and before then in January (and also in March
2012, soon after the release of �Strength and Song�). In conversation, he�s open
and direct, confident in his abilities but without arrogance or attitude. This
piece combines parts of our two most recent exchanges. I asked the questions, but
he gave the answers, so I�ll get out of the way.
On intensity

JR: What I�ve realized in New York is that the intensity level is always there.
People play with so much intensity all the time that it took me a little bit to get
on that plane. Now that I�m there, now that I realize what that feels like, I hate
anything that doesn�t feel like that � The music is all that we as musicians have.
If you�re not going to put 100% into it, why do it? I don�t want to hear something
that lacks that intensity, that commitment.

There�s a certain rhythmic intensity that has to happen in jazz. A certain melodic
intensity. And harmonic intensity. After that, it�s all a personal stand � You just
want to do something that�s honest to you. What�s honest to me now looks different
than it did three years ago. And I have to honor that. If I�m committed to that, it
doesn�t matter what it sounds like, it�s going to work.

On learning to lead

In my first couple years in New York, I was doing a lot of reacting. I would be in
these musical situations, playing with people a lot better than me, and thinking I
wanted everybody to be on an equal playing field � for everybody to have a say in
what was happening in a given musical moment. I realize now that when I�m the
soloist, I direct where the music goes. As a bandleader, I have to direct and lead.
I�ve always felt like a capable leader, I�ve always realized I have those skills,
but now I have the tools to lead more fluidly and effectively.

On embracing the unknown

The people I love to make music with are people who push me into the unknown. I�ll
go into something where I don�t know what�s happening or what�s going to happen and
embrace it. My motto recently has been, �Just jump off the cliff. Just go.�

One of the big things I realized musically is that I was trying to control all of
these things � my sound, improvising, the arc of a solo I would take, or the arc of
a whole song. I wanted so much control! Then I saw that the people who are most
inspiring to me would abandon that control and go with something spontaneous and
unknown. That, to me, has been the thrill. I�ve gotten into not knowing what�s
going to happen next. At first, that was kind of terrifying. But now I�m okay with
it. The unknown is one of the most exciting parts about jazz.

On being himself

I�ve been getting together off-and-on with Matt Merewitz of Fully Altered Media.
He�s an important publicist on the jazz scene, and I felt that he would tell me
honestly and bluntly what he thought about me � One thing he told me right at the
beginning was, �You need to stop trying to be like Ambrose [Akinmusire]. You need
to think about who you are as a white, Minnesotan, Christian jazz musician.�

There was something about the white music/black music thing that made sense to me.
A voice in my head said �Stop trying to be who you�re not. Be who you are. You�re a
Minnesotan white dude who grew up in a Lutheran church.� So, what does that mean
for me? What does that look like? It�s changing how I�m playing, and how I try to
improvise.

When I started getting into Lee Konitz, I saw that Lee is not trying to be like
anybody else. He never has. He doesn�t care anything about what anybody else
thinks.

On playing the tune

I know what aspects I bring to the music, in terms of improvisation. I know I�m not
a super-free player like Taylor Ho Bynum. I�ve been bred to have a really great
sound, so in that way, I�m going to be different. I know that I think about music
in a certain way. I want people to hear that I understand the tradition, because I
do. So some of the things I�ve told myself over the last couple of years are, �Stop
playing to try to impress people. Be okay with just playing the tune, playing the
changes, playing something that is melodically really great.� What makes Lee Konitz
so great is that he plays a lot of amazing stuff, but it�s not like he�s
reinventing harmony or melody.

John McNeil [trumpeter and producer of Raymond�s new CD] has harped on me to get
more of a vocal quality in my sound and how I play. The people we tend to connect
most with as improvisers have a primal vocal quality. The music sings to you.

On who he�d like to work with someday

I desperately want to one day make a record with Dave King. To me, he�s a drummer
who�s the perfect combination of everything. Maybe it�s because I�m from [the Twin
Cities] and there�s a certain thing about that, but when I saw him at the Vanguard
with Billy Carrothers and Billy Peterson, it was incredible. I stayed for both
sets. I was going to go somewhere else after the first set, but I said to myself,
�You�re not going anywhere.�

I�d kill to work with Brian Blade. Brian Blade and Dave King are two people I would
love to record with at some point in my life.

On how his new Roots Trio came together

Last year, I ended up doing two different recordings. Both were with Gilad, and
ever since we recorded �Strength and Song� he was always my first-call guy. There�s
some kind of connection I feel with him � the way he makes music, and our
relationship. There�s something there that I really want to keep. So I pared it
down to a quartet � Gilad and I and a bass and drums. We recorded two different
times with different musicians, and both of those times I played only flugelhorn.

Both of those recordings didn�t turn out how I wanted them to. There was just
something about them that didn�t feel right.

For a while, I�d been thinking about doing a project with just a trio, with a
different instrumentation � something a little fresher, something I�m not used to
hearing or feeling. I emailed the guy who books The Bar Next Door in New York,
which is a trio venue with no piano. I was just trying to get a gig, and thinking
as I�m writing the email that I should propose a gig with me and guitar and drums.
The guy knows Gilad really well, and Gilad plays there a lot. We ended up booking a
gig. I had thought about Colin, but he couldn�t make that one, so Eric Doob, who�s
another great drummer in New York, ended up doing it.

Then I thought, let�s just scrap the whole originals thing. Let�s play songs that
people are familiar with, whether that�s folk songs or hymns or indie rock tunes,
and incorporate some standards in there, too. I spent a while getting the music
together, working out certain arrangements, but I didn�t work out too much. I just
wanted to throw it at people. And we did the gig, and it was a really special night
of music, and I could feel it, and Gilad felt it, too.

Part of the heartbeat of jazz is the joy that comes from the spontaneity. I have
known that intellectually for a while, but after the Roots trio gigs and playing
with Billy (Hart), it has come full circle. Something I�m telling myself a lot
these days is, �Just make it feel good. Have fun with it and be happy about the
music you make.� I notice a difference in how I feel and how everybody else reacts.

On the flugelhorn-guitar combination

I�ve transitioned to only playing flugelhorn with the trio. I think it sounds great
with guitar. That comes out of the Art Farmer/Jim Hall influence. Farmer is one of
the only people who�s known for playing mainly flugelhorn. I got a new flugelhorn,
and there�s something about it and just playing flugel in general that has brought
out a voice in me that I didn�t have playing trumpet.

The Art Farmer/Jim Hall groove inspired the whole pairing, and now I�m putting it
in a different context, which is kind of cool.

On what the Roots Trio will record

We�ll be doing an arrangement of �This Land Is Your Land,� and an arrangement of

�Blackbird,� the Paul McCartney tune. With a jazz sensibility. The nature of the
instrumentation, specifically flugelhorn and guitar, will lend a rootsy feel to
things, for lack of a better word, so I�m not as concerned about squeezing the jazz
out of it.

We�re doing an arrangement of �Scarborough Fair� by Simon and Garfunkel. An

original, �Thaddeus,� in dedication to Thad Jones, based on his song �Three and
One,� so it�s a contrafact. We�ll do a couple original songs of mine. Probably a
Chris Morrissey tune, �Minor Silverstein,� off his �North Hero� record. An
arrangement of �Amazing Grace,� an arrangement of �Be Still My Soul,� and an
arrangement of the hymn �I�ll Fly Away,� which most people have probably heard on
the soundtrack for �O Brother, Where Art Thou.� A Thom Yorke song that [Twin Cities
saxophonist] Chris Thomson introduced to me long ago that always stuck with me.

I think that�s it � 12 or 13 songs. I�m trying to plan compositionally and be smart

� use my intellect in a good way to keep things interesting and fresh, but also
leave a lot of space to let the musicians do their thing. That�s one of the
strengths of the band.

On his disappointment after �Strength and Song,� and what has changed since then

When I put out �Strength and Song� [in 2012], it was like � okay, I�ve got a record
now. I�m going to try to play all these festivals. I�m going to get an agent and
play all these clubs. I was so gung-ho to make a big splash. But I didn�t have much
success. It definitely opened a lot of doors, but it didn�t have the impact I was
hoping it would.

That was disappointing, and hard to go through. I didn�t get a DownBeat review or a
JazzTimes review. I didn�t get many good reviews from notable press. I was upset
about that at first, that I didn�t get those reviews.

Then I had a conversation with the sax player John Ellis. He lives pretty close to
me, and we�ve gotten together a few times for sessions or seeing each other at
gigs. I think we were riding the train home from some gig together, talking about a
whole bunch of things, and I was asking about the business side of music � we were
going down that road � and his thoughts on certain things. At one point he said to
me, �Remember that ultimately it�s not about any of that. It�s about the music. If
you put 100% of your energy into making your music the most honest and high-level
you possibly can, everything else will take care of itself.�

That conversation has stuck with me. Instead of thinking �I should�ve gotten this
review� or �I should�ve done this,� or �those people should�ve liked the record� or
whatever, just focus on the music. I�ve learned so much about how to take care of
the music, and how to invest the heart and soul of my energy into that. Nothing has
happened yet with the record with Billy, and we haven�t even recorded yet with
Gilad and Colin, but I can already sense that things are very different from me
than they were three years ago.

John Raymond talks about his music, his faith, and his new CD

John Raymond
The opening track of �Strength and Song,� the John Raymond Project�s first
recording, starts with a fanfare. Two crisp, insistent trumpet phrases, each played
four times, seem to say, �Here we are!� The song is titled �Already and Not Yet.�
Confidence mixed with humility, a fitting description of Raymond himself.

Jazz trumpeter/composer John Raymond grew up in Golden Valley, Minnesota, attended

the University of Wisconsin at Eau Claire (known for its jazz program), and earned
his master�s degree from SUNY Purchase. A finalist in the 2009 National Trumpet
Competition, he has played with many top jazz artists at venues across the US.
Raymond now lives in New York City and is planning his first European tour.

Produced by Jon Faddis, featuring Javier Santiago on piano and Fender Rhodes,
Gerald Clayton on piano, Gilad Hekselman on guitar, Tim Green on alto sax, Raviv
Markovitz on bass, and Cory Cox on drums, �Strength and Song� is a debut recording,
but it neither feels nor sounds like a freshman effort. The compositions are
melodic, thoughtful, and complete. Hear them once and you�ll know them when you
hear them again. Raymond�s tone is clear and direct, without affectation. Moods and
tempos vary, as they should, but this is largely upbeat, uplifting music.
Celebratory yet reflective. Rock-solid, with something to say.

�Strength and Song� was officially released on Feb. 28 and streamed on NextBop that
week. The Cornelia Street Caf� hosted a CD release event on March 22, and on
Thursday, March 29, the John Raymond Project will play the Dakota in Minneapolis.
Raymond�s band in Minneapolis will include Bryan Nichols on keys, Vinnie Rose on
guitar, Jeremy Boettcher on bass, and Miguel Hurtado on drums. I spoke with Raymond
by phone in mid-March.

PLE: How old were you when you started playing a musical instrument?

I was ten, in fifth grade. I started on piano in second or third grade. I dropped
it in sixth or seventh grade because I wanted to do more jazz things on piano and
my piano teacher wasn�t cool with that. She didn�t have the background.

Had you heard a lot of jazz by then?

No. I wouldn�t say my parents were nonmusical, but we didn�t have music playing in
the house all the time. I wasn�t exposed to a lot of music at home. It was more
through the opportunities I was given early on, especially by Liz Jackson and Mike
Whipkey, my elementary school band directors at Meadowbrook School in Golden
Valley.

The more I think about it, the more in awe I am of the number of performing
opportunities they got for us kids who were really into the music. They arranged
for us to play at master classes at the University of Minnesota�a jazz thing, a
brass quintet thing, all of these different things that gave us opportunities to
play. When I look back, I realize how unique it was for elementary school band
directors to be that gung ho. That had a huge impact.

In junior high, I started attending the Minnesota Institute for Talented Youth jazz
program directed by Scott Carter. That was huge for me, too. I did that for three
or four summers in a row. One teacher who helped me a lot was Chris Thomson. I
remember getting together a few times outside the regular camp day. He taught me
different jazz theory things, random lessons. I remember that being formative.
Fanning the flame.

Was there a moment when you knew this was the path you would take?

In the summer going into my junior year in high school, I attended the Minnesota
All-State Jazz Camp. The director that year was Bob Baca, who would eventually be
my teacher at Eau Claire. I went from practicing an hour a day to practicing three
to five hours a day. That was a huge jump for me. I didn�t know what I was getting
into, but I knew that I wanted to be a musician, and I think it was largely because
of him.

When did you know that you would eventually end up in New York?

I visited in high school, thinking I wanted to go there right away for my

undergraduate work. I hated it. I was not a fan of NYC. I visited again in my
senior year of college. Eau Claire has money set aside for students who want to go
study with great musicians for a few days. I was here for a week and got to study
with Terell Stafford. Once I was here, I thought�this isn�t as bad as I remember.

The following fall, I visited again to check out grad schools. By then I knew I
wanted to be in New York. There�s something about the tradition of how jazz
musicians pursue music and performing, how they grow as players and composers, that
New York has and other places don�t. SUNY Purchase had a light enough graduate
program that I only had to be at school three days a week. That allowed me to live
in the city.

How did you meet Jon Faddis, and how did he come to be the producer of �Strength
and Song�?

I studied with him at Purchase my first semester there. I was planning to audition
for Betty Carter�s Jazz Ahead program. You have to submit an audio recording, and I
brought in some of my compositions to show him. He said, �Let�s take you to Bennett
Studios and record these four tunes. It�s on me.� I was really taken aback. Here
was Jon Faddis, stepping out and doing something for me. We did a four- or six-hour
session and he paid for everything. That was the start. I knew I had a lot to
learn, but I could see that he wanted to invest in me as well. When it came time to
record the CD, I thought I should at least ask him if he would produce it. He said
yes. He even said he would do it pro bono, which totally blew my mind. I didn�t let
that happen�I paid him something.

How did Faddis help to shape �Strength and Song�?

He offered suggestions wherever they were most needed, and only if he thought they
would clearly make something more musical. He would comment on an arrangement, how
long an introduction was, or �let�s take out the piano solo on this tune��that sort
of thing. It was his idea to use the mute on �O Come, O Come Emmanuel� and �The
Poor Blind Man.� I never would have thought of it, but it worked.

John Raymond by John Whiting

In one of your EPK videos, you define Strength as �firmness, stability, what
sustains, what gives the ability to endure, what supports, what holds a person
together.� You define Song as �the outward expression, the proclamation, the
testimony of one�s strength.� And it all comes back to Isaiah 12:2: �For the Lord
God is my strength and song.� Have you always been a person of faith?

I grew up Lutheran, going to a Lutheran church in St. Louis Park with my family.
When I went to the All-State camp in high school, I met some people who lived in
Eagan. I started connecting with them, playing music with them, and going to their
youth group and different events at their churches. What I experienced there was
very different from what I had experienced growing up. There was a sense of life
and realness to their faith that I hadn�t known until then.

At the same time, things started happening with me musically. Both my music and my
faith grew in a short amount of time. That continued into college, where I was
active with the campus ministry at Eau Claire. I linked up with a church outside of
Eau Claire and one of the choir directors became my mentor and best friend. He was
one of my best men at my wedding; we became that close.

So I can look back and say yes, I grew up in a church, but what I experienced there
wasn�t the biblical Christianity that I know now. I�m not making any judgments on
people I grew up with, but I know that what I started to experience later was
definitely different.

Did you know you were looking for this kind of experience?

No.

Did you have issues with your parents?

No. They�re proud of me and interested that my faith has become such a central part
of my life. I�ve had a handful of friends who have had problems.

I didn�t start out to make an overtly Christian jazz album. I want to make music.
But for me, the �Strength and Song� title and all of this music is a statement
about who I am musically, and I think it should also be a statement about who I am
personally. Hiding that wouldn�t be honest. Every jazz musician goes for honesty.
You hear so many musicians say that. It�s right on with the essence of the music.

The guitarist on your CD, Gilad Hekselman, is from Israel. Did you have any issues
with him?

While doing the album together, we had some very civil conversations about faith
and Christianity. I was able to dispel some pretty severe misconceptions he had
about Christianity. I think that was helpful for him. He�s actually been great. I
don�t run into people a whole lot who have severe issues playing with me, or issues
in the after-the-gig-hang. This is true for ninety-nine percent of the people I
interact with.

Knowing about your faith, it becomes obvious, or seems obvious, that most of your
song titles have Biblical roots. Some examples: �The Rock.� There are rocks all
over the Bible. �Ebenezer� is the name of a rock in the Old Testament. �O Come, O
Come Emmanuel.� �Motivations of a Pharisee.� �Psalm 37.� What do your titles say
about the music?

Actually, �Ebenezer� is [pianist] Javier Santiago�s tune, and one of my favorites.

For the longest time, he wouldn�t give it a title. I would say, �Dude, you have to
think of a title! I�m about to print this.� Then it came to me that the song
resembled Ebenezer, a stone that served as a landmark for the Israelites, a symbol
of a time when God proved his faithfulness to them and his protection of them. When
they encountered future trials, they could look back on Ebenezer and not lose heart
or be discouraged. I emailed Javi and told him what I was thinking and he said,
�That�s cool.� On the CD, �Ebenezer� follows �The Rock,� which is very driving and
intense. �Ebenezer� feels like the calm after the storm.
John Raymond by John Whiting

What are you saying with �Motivations of a Pharisee�?

I get a lot of questions about that title. It�s loaded, and it sounds loaded. I
wrote that song the summer before we recorded. At the time, I was wrestling with
certain things spiritually. I was reading the Gospels and learning more about the
Pharisees and what they stood for. They were teachers and devout religious people,
but strictly opposed to Jesus and what he was saying and doing. Why were they so
opposed to him? In those days, the motivations were to be religious and follow the
rules and in that way please God. But Jesus was saying, �You can�t please God by
what you do, even if you do all the right things. Following the rules should be a
response to how good God is to you and how loving God is to you.�

What I had learned all my life was I had to be a good person and do certain things
because they were the Christian way. This goes back to my Lutheran roots. As I
started learning more about what the Bible actually teaches, it became a joy to
obey instead of a duty to obey. Instead of serving God because that�s what I should
do, it�s something I want to do�because of his love for me, grace to me, and
provision for me. So that tune happened as I was confronting my own pharisitical
motivations.

�Psalm 37: Anthem� combines music with a discussion of the psalm with someone named
Zac Martin. Who is Zac Martin? And what led you to end your first full-length CD in
this way? At least one reviewer thinks your CD would have better without this.

Zac Martin is our pastor here at our church in Brooklyn. I had written a tune and
titled it �Psalm 37� because I was challenged by that psalm, wrestling with it and
trying to embrace what was going on in it. Every time I played the tune in a
rehearsal or a show, we would treat it as a normal tune, and it never felt quite
right to me. But I wanted the tune on the CD�it has a concise melody I like�and
that�s where the idea of the dialogue happened.

I�m an instrumental musician. I want to let my music just be music, but at the same
time, I want it to have words. Music alone can�t change someone in the way that God
has changed me. What�s really changed me at a foundational level has been the
Bible, which has words, and my relationships with other people, which involve
discussion and conversation. So the idea of having words somewhere in my music is
important to me.

What about working with a lyricist, or with hymns?

One of the things I�m doing right now is a hymns project with Zach Foty, a friend
from high school who�s doing a lot of producing for a number of different artists
in the Twin Cities. We�re in the very early stages. We don�t even have any
arrangements yet. I�m thinking it will be loosely jazz�more rock, even indie rock.
With some electronic music as well, which is one of Zach�s interests.

I�ve started playing in our worship team at our church in Brooklyn. One thing I can
bring to the table is the idea of spontaneity and being in the moment, being able
to worship in the moment. What would music like that look like? Not so much jazz
arrangement as�jazz spirit?

What in particular were you (are you) trying to say with this collection of songs?

One of the goals jazz musicians have is to be honest in their music. For me, hiding
where my music comes from and what influenced it would be silly. My faith is
directly connected to what comes out of me musically. My EPK is a succinct way of
saying what I want to say�musically and verbally.
Do you think �Strength and Song� represents who you are right now, or are you
already moving beyond it?

I�m looking ahead. At the same time, I genuinely enjoy playing these songs. A lot
of them are actually pretty simple. There�s nothing too crazy going on. The music
is very accessible. People have mentioned that they�ll get these songs stuck in
their head. That�s one of the strengths of these songs, and one reason I like
playing them so much. Not to puff myself up, but I like the tunes. They�re fun to
play, and they yield themselves to good moments. So I don�t mind playing them. At
the same time, I�m working on new stuff, trying to envision what this might look
like as it evolves. I like the instrumentation of the band right now. So in a
sense, �Strength and Song� is who I am now. I think the concept will always remain
with me. It�s broad enough. At the same time, I know it will evolve. It will look a
lot different two albums from now.