I AM THAT

Dialogues of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

That in whom reside all beings and who resides in all beings, who is the
giver of grace to all, the Supreme Soul of the universe, the limitless being
-- I am that.
Amritbindu Upanishad

That which permeates all, which nothing transcends and which, like the
universal space around us, fills everything completely from within and
without, that Supreme non-dual Brahman -- that thou art.
Sankaracharya

The seeker is he who is in search of himself.

Give up all questions except one: Who am I? After all, the only fact you
are sure of is that you are. The I am is certain. The I am this is not.
Struggle to find out what you are in reality.
To know what you are, you must first investigate and know what you are
not.
Discover all that you are not -- body, feelings thoughts, time, space, this or
that -- nothing, concrete or abstract, which you perceive can be you. The
very act of perceiving shows that you are not what you perceive.
The clearer you understand on the level of mind you can be described in
negative terms only, the quicker will you come to the end of your search
and realise that you are the limitless being.
Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
Table of Contents
ForewordWho is Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj?
Translators NoteEditors Note
1. The Sense of I am
2. Obsession with the body3. The Living Present4. Real World is Beyond the Mind5
. What is Born must Die6. Meditation7. The Mind8. The Self Stands Beyond Mind9.
Responses of Memory10. Witnessing11. Awareness and Consciousness12. The Person i
s not Reality13. The Supreme, the Mind and the Body14. Appearances and the Reali
ty15. The Jnani16. Desirelessness, the Highest Bliss17. The Ever-Present18. To K
now What you Are, Find What you
Are Not19. Reality lies in Objectivity20. The Supreme is Beyond All21. Who am I?
22. Life is Love and Love is Life23. Discrimination leads to Detachment24. God i
s the All-doer, the Jnani a Non-doer25. Hold on to I am
26. Personality, an Obstacle27. The Beginningless Begins Forever28. All Sufferin
g is Born of Desire29. Living is Life s only Purpose30. You are Free NOW31. Do not
Undervalue Attention
52. Being Happy, Making Happy is the
Rhythm of Life53. Desires Fulfilled, Breed More Desires54. Body and Mind are Sym
ptoms of
Ignorance55. Give up All and You Gain All56. Consciousness Arising, World Arises
57. Beyond Mind there is no Suffering58. Perfection, Destiny of All59. Desire an
d Fear: Self-centred States60. Live Facts, not Fancies61. Matter is Consciousnes
s Itself62. In the Supreme the Witness Appears63. Notion of Doership is Bondage6
4. Whatever pleases you, Keeps you Back
65. A Quiet Mind is All You Need66. All Search for Happiness is Misery67. Experi
ence is not the Real Thing68. Seek the Source of Consciousness69. Transiency is
Proof of Unreality70. God is the End of All Desire and
Knowledge71. In Self-awareness you Learn about
Yourself72. What is Pure, Unalloyed, Unattached is
Real73. Death of the Mind is Birth of Wisdom74. Truth is Here and Now75. In Peac
e and Silence you Grow76. To Know that You do not Know, is True
Knowledge77. 'I' and 'Mine' are False Ideas
32. Life is the Supreme Guru33. Everything Happens by Itself34. Mind is restless
ness Itself35. Greatest Guru is Your Inner Self36. Killing Hurts the Killer, not
the Killed37. Beyond Pain and Pleasure there is Bliss38. Spiritual Practice is
Will Asserted and Re-
asserted39. By Itself Nothing has Existence40. Only the Self is Real41. Develop
the Witness Attitude42. Reality can not be Expressed43. Ignorance can be Recogni
sed, not Jnana44. 'I am' is True, all else is Inference45. What Comes and Goes h
as no Being46. Awareness of Being is Bliss47. Watch Your Mind48. Awareness is Fr
ee49. Mind Causes Insecurity50. Self-awareness is the Witness51. Be Indifferent
to Pain and Pleasure
78. All Knowledge is Ignorance79. Person, Witness and the Supreme80. Awareness81
. Root Cause of Fear82. Absolute Perfection is Here and Now83. The True Guru84.
Your Goal is Your Guru85. I am : The Foundation of all Experience86. The Unknown is
the Home of the Real87. Keep the Mind Silent and You shall
Discover88. Knowledge by the Mind, is not True
Knowledge89. Progress in Spiritual Life90. Surrender to Your Own Self91. Pleasur
e and Happiness92. Go Beyond the l-am-the-body Idea93. Man is not the Doer94. Yo
u are Beyond Space and Time95. Accept Life as it Comes96. Abandon Memories and E
xpectations97. Mind and the World are not Separate98. Freedom from Self-identifi
cation99. The Perceived can not be the Perceiver100. Understanding leads to Free
dom101. Jnani does not Grasp, nor Hold
Appendix-1: Who is Sri Nisargadatta MaharajAppendix-2: Navnath Sampradaya

Foreword
That there should be yet another addition of I AM THAT is not surprising, for th
e sublimity of the
words spoken by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, their directness and the lucidity with
which they refer to
the Highest have already made this book a literature of paramount importance. In
fact, many regard
it as the only book of spiritual teaching really worth studying.
There are various religions and systems of philosophy which claim to endow human
life with
meaning. But they suffer from certain inherent limitations. They couch into fine
-sounding words their
traditional beliefs and ideologies, theological or philosophical. Believers, how
ever, discover the
limited range of meaning and applicability of these words, sooner or later. They
get disillusioned
and tend to abandon the systems, in the same way as scientific theories are aban
doned, when they
are called in question by too much contradictory empirical data.
When a system of spiritual interpretation turns out to be unconvincing and not c
apable of being
rationally justified, many people allow themselves to be converted to some other
system. After a
while, however, they find limitations and contradictions in the other system als
o. In this unrewarding
pursuit of acceptance and rejection what remains for them is only scepticism and
agnosticism,
leading to a fatuous way of living, engrossed in mere gross utilities of life, j
ust consuming material
goods. Sometimes, however, though rarely, scepticism gives rise to an intuition
of a basic reality,
more fundamental than that of words, religions or philosophic systems. Strangely
, it is a positive
aspect of scepticism. It was in such a state of scepticism, but also having an i
ntuition of the basic
reality, that I happened to read Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj s I AM THAT. I was at on
ce struck by the
finality and unassailable certitude of his words. Limited by their very nature t
hough words are, I
found the utterances of Maharaj transparent, polished windows, as it were.
No book of spiritual teachings, however, can replace the presence of the teacher
himself. Only the
words spoken directly to you by the Guru shed their opacity completely. In a Gur
u s presence the
last boundaries drawn by the mind vanish. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj is indeed suc
h a Guru. He is
not a preacher, but he provides precisely those indications which the seeker nee
ds. The reality
which emanates from him is inalienable and Absolute. It is authentic. Having exp
erienced the verity
of his words in the pages of I AM THAT, and being inspired by it, many from the
West have found
their way to Maharaj to seek enlightenment.
Maharaj s interpretation of truth is not different from that of Jnana Yoga/Advaita
Vedanta. But, he
has a way of his own. The multifarious forms around us, says he, are constituted
of the five
elements. They are transient, and in a state of perpetual flux. Also they are go
verned by the law of
causation. All this applies to the body and the mind also, both of which are tra
nsient and subject to
birth and death. We know that only by means of the bodily senses and the mind ca
n the world be
known. As in the Kantian view, it is a correlate of the human knowing subject, a
nd, therefore, has
the fundamental structure of our way of knowing. This means that time, space and
causality are not
objective , or extraneous entities, but mental categories in which everything is mo
ulded. The
existence and form of all things depend upon the mind. Cognition is a mental pro
duct. And the world
as seen from the mind is a subjective and private world, which changes continuou
sly in accordance
with the restlessness of the mind itself.
In opposition to the restless mind, with its limited categories -- intentionalit
y, subjectivity, duality etc.
-- stands supreme the limitless sense of I am . The only thing I can be sure about
is that I am ; not
as a thinking I am in the Cartesian sense, but without any predicates. Again and a
gain Maharaj
draws our attention to this basic fact in order to make us realise our I am-ness a
nd thus get rid of
all self-made prisons. He says: The only true statement is I am . All else is mere
inference. By no
effort can you change the I am into I am-not .
Behold, the real experiencer is not the mind, but myself, the light in which eve
rything appears. Self
is the common factor at the root of all experience, the awareness in which every
thing happens. The
entire field of consciousness is only as a film, or a speck, in I am . This I am-nes
s is, being
conscious of consciousness, being aware of itself. And it is indescribable, beca
use it has no
attributes. It is only being my self, and being my self is all that there is. Ev
erything that exists, exists
as my self. There is nothing which is different from me. There is no duality and
, therefore, no pain.
There are no problems. It is the sphere of love, in which everything is perfect.
What happens,
happens spontaneously, without intentions -- like digestion, or the growth of th
e hair. Realise this,
and be free from the limitations of the mind.
Behold, the deep sleep in which there is no notion of being this or that. Yet I a
m remains. And
behold the eternal now. Memory seems to being things to the present out of the p
ast, but all that
happens does happen in the present only. It is only in the timeless now that phe
nomena manifest
themselves. Thus, time and causality do not apply in reality. I am prior to the
world, body and mind.
I am the sphere in which they appear and disappear. I am the source of them all,
the universal
power by which the world with its bewildering diversity becomes manifest.
In spite of its primevality, however, the sense of I am is not the Highest. It is
not the Absolute. The
sense, or taste of I am-ness is not absolutely beyond time. Being the essence of t
he five elements,
it, in a way, depends upon the world. It arises from the body, which, in its tur
n, is built by food,
consisting of the elements. It disappears when the body dies, like the spark ext
inguishes when the
incense stick burns out. When pure awareness is attained, no need exists any mor
e, not even for I
am , which is but a useful pointer, a direction-indicator towards the Absolute. Th
e awareness I am
then easily ceases. What prevails is that which cannot be described, that which
is beyond words. It
is this state which is most real, a state of pure potentiality, which is prior to
everything. The I am
and the universe are mere reflections of it. It is this reality which a jnani ha
s realised.
The best that you can do is listen attentively to the jnani -- of whom Sri Nisar
gadatta is a living
example -- and to trust and believe him. By such listening you will realise that
his reality is your
reality. He helps you in seeing the nature of the world and of the I am . He urges
you to study the
workings of the body and the mind with solemn and intense concentration, to reco
gnise that you are
neither of them and to cast them off. He suggests that you return again and agai
n to I am until it is
your only abode, outside of which nothing exists; until the ego as a limitation
of I am , has
disappeared. It is then that the highest realisation will just happen effortless
ly.
Mark the words of the jnani, which cut across all concepts and dogmas. Maharaj s
ays: until once
becomes self-realised, attains to knowledge of the self, transcends the self, un
til then, all these
cock-and-bull stories are provided, all these concepts. Yes, they are concepts, e
ven I am is, but
surely there are no concepts more precious. It is for the seeker to regard them
with the utmost
seriousness, because they indicate the Highest Reality. No better concepts are a
vailable to shed all
concepts.
I am thankful to Sudhakar S. Dikshit, the editor, for inviting me to write the F
oreword to this new
edition of I AM THAT and thus giving me an opportunity to pay my homage to Sri N
isargadatta
Maharaj, who has expounded highest knowledge in the simplest, clearest and the m
ost convincing
words.
Douwe TiemersmaPhilosophical FacultyErasmus UniversiteitRotterdam, HollandJune,
1981
Who is Nisargadatta Maharaj?
When asked about the date of his birth the Master replied blandly that he was ne
ver born!
Writing a biographical note on Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj is a frustrating and unr
ewarding task. For,
not only the exact date of his birth is unknown, but no verified facts concernin
g the early years of his
life are available. However, some of his elderly relatives and friends say that
he was born in the
month of March 1897 on a full moon day, which coincided with the festival of Han
uman Jayanti,
when Hindus pay their homage to Hanuman, also named Maruti, the monkey-god of Ra
mayana
fame. And to associate his birth with this auspicious day his parents named him
Maruti.
Available information about his boyhood and early youth is patchy and disconnect
ed. We learn that
his father, Shivrampant, was a poor man, who worked for some time as a domestic
servant in
Bombay and, later, eked out his livelihood as a petty farmer at Kandalgaon, a sm
all village in the
back woods of Ratnagiri district of Maharashtra. Maruti grew up almost without e
ducation. As a boy
he assisted his father in such labours as lay within his power -- tended cattle,
drove oxen, worked in
the fields and ran errands. His pleasures were simple, as his labours, but he wa
s gifted with an
inquisitive mind, bubbling over with questions of all sorts.
His father had a Brahmin friend named Vishnu Haribhau Gore, who was a pious man
and learned
too from rural standards. Gore often talked about religious topics and the boy M
aruti listened
attentively and dwelt on these topics far more than anyone would suppose. Gore w
as for him the
ideal man -- earnest, kind and wise.
When Maruti attained the age of eighteen his father died, leaving behind his wid
ow, four sons and
two daughters. The meagre income from the small farm dwindled further after the
old man s death
and was not sufficient to feed so many mouths. Maruti s elder brother left the vil
lage for Bombay in
search of work and he followed shortly after. It is said that in Bombay he worke
d for a few months
as a low-paid junior clerk in an office, but resigned the job in disgust. He the
n took petty trading as a
haberdasher and started a shop for selling children s clothes, tobacco and hand-ma
de country
cigarettes. This business is said to have flourished in course of time, giving h
im some sort of
financial security. During this period he got married and had a son and three da
ughters.
Childhood, youth, marriage, progeny -- Maruti lived the usual humdrum and eventl
ess life of a
common man till his middle age, with no inkling at all of the sainthood that was
to follow. Among his
friends during this period was one Yashwantrao Baagkar, who was a devotee of Sri
Siddharameshwar Maharaj, a spiritual teacher of the Navnath Sampradaya, a sect o
f Hinduism.
One evening Baagkar took Maruti to his Guru and that evening proved to be the tu
rning point in his
life. The Guru gave him a mantra and instructions in meditation. Early in his pr
actice he started
having visions and occasionally even fell into trances. Something exploded withi
n him, as it were,
giving birth to a cosmic consciousness, a sense of eternal life. The identity of
Maruti, the petty
shopkeeper, dissolved and the illuminating personality of Sri Nisargadatta emerg
ed.
Most people live in the world of self-consciousness and do not have the desire o
r power to leave it.
They exist only for themselves; all their effort is directed towards achievement
of self-satisfaction
and self-glorification. There are, however, seers, teachers and revealers who, w
hile apparently
living in the same world, live simultaneously in another world also -- the world
of cosmic
consciousness, effulgent with infinite knowledge. After his illuminating experie
nce Sri Nisargadatta
Maharaj started living such a dual life. He conducted his shop, but ceased to be
a profit-minded
merchant. Later, abandoning his family and business he became a mendicant, a pil
grim over the
vastness and variety of the Indian religious scene. He walked barefooted on his
way to the
Himalayas where he planned to pass the rest of his years in quest of a eternal l
ife. But he soon
retraced his steps and came back home comprehending the futility of such a quest
. Eternal life, he
perceived, was not to be sought for; he already had it. Having gone beyond the I
-am-the-body idea,
he had acquired a mental state so joyful, peaceful and glorious that everything
appeared to be
worthless compared to it. He had attained self-realisation.
Uneducated though the Master is, his conversation is enlightened to an extraordi
nary degree.
Though born and brought up in poverty, he is the richest of the rich, for he has
the limitless wealth
of perennial knowledge, compared to which the most fabulous treasures are mere t
insel. He is
warm-hearted and tender, shrewdly humorous, absolutely fearless and absolutely t
rue -- inspiring,
guiding and supporting all who come to him.
Any attempt to write a biographical not on such a man is frivolous and futile. F
or he is not a man
with a past or future; he is the living present -- eternal and immutable. He is
the self that has
become all things.
Translators Note
I met Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj some years back and was impressed with the sponta
neous
simplicity of his appearance and behaviour and his deep and genuine earnestness
in expounding
his experience.
However humble and difficult to discover his little tenement in the back lanes o
f Bombay, many
have found their way there. Most of them are Indians, conversing freely in their
native language, but
there were also many foreigners who needed a translator. Whenever I was present
the task would
fall to me. Many of the questions put and answers given were so interesting and
significant that a
tape-recorder was brought in. While most of the tapes were of the regular Marath
i-English variety,
some were polygot scrambles of several Indian and European languages. Later, eac
h tape was
deciphered and translated into English.
It was not easy to translate verbatim and at the same time avoid tedious repetit
ions and reiterations.
It is hoped that the present translation of the tape-recordings will not reduce
the impact of this clear-
minded, generous and in many ways an unusual human being.
A Marathi version of these talks, verified by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj himself,
has been separately
published.
Maurice FrydmanTranslatorBombayOctober 16, 1973
Editors Note
The present edition of I AM THAT is a revised and re-edited version of the 101 t
alks that appeared
in two volumes in earlier editions. Not only the matter has now been re-set in a
more readable
typeface and with chapter headings, but new pictures of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
have been
included and the appendices contain some hitherto unpublished valuable material.
I draw special attention to the reader to the contribution entitled Nisarga Yoga ,
in which my
esteemed friend, the late Maurice Frydman, has succinctly presented the teaching
of Maharaj.
Simplicity and humility are the keynotes of his teachings, as Maurice observes.
The Master does
not propound any intellectual concept or doctrine. He does not put forward any p
re-conditions
before the seekers and is happy with them as they are. In fact Sri Nisargadatta
Maharaj is peculiarly
free from all disparagement and condemnation; the sinner and the saint are merel
y exchanging
notes; the saint has sinned, the sinner can be sanctified. It is time that divid
es them; it is time that
will bring them together. The teacher does not evaluate; his sole concern is wit
h suffering and the
ending of suffering . He knows from his personal and abiding experience that the r
oots of sorrow are
in the mind and it is the mind that must be freed from its distorting and destru
ctive habits. Of these
the identification of the self with its projections is most fatal. By precept an
d example Sri
Nisargadatta Maharaj shows a short-cut, a-logical but empirically sound. It oper
ates, when
understood.
Revising and editing of I AM THAT has been for me a pilgrimage to my inner self
-- at once
ennobling and enlightening. I have done my work in a spirit of dedication, with
great earnestness. I
have treated the questions of every questioner as mine own questions and have im
bibed the
answers of the Master with a mind emptied of all it knew. However, in this proce
ss of what may be
called a two-voiced meditation, it is possible that at places I may have failed
in the cold-blooded
punctiliousness about the syntax and punctuation, expected of an editor. For suc
h lapses, if any, I
seek forgiveness of the reader.
Before closing, I wish to express my heart-felt thanks to Professor Douwe Tiemer
sma of the
Philosophical Faculty Erasmus, Universieit, Rottendam, Holland for contributing
a new Foreword to
this edition. That he acceeded to my request promptly makes me feel all the more
grateful.
Sudhakar S. DikshitEditorBombay,
July 1981
1. The Sense of I am
Questioner: It is a matter of daily experience that on waking up the world sudde
nly appears. Where
does it come from?
Maharaj: Before anything can come into being there must be somebody to whom it c
omes. All
appearance and disappearance presupposes a change against some changeless backgr
ound.
Q: Before waking up I was unconscious.
M: In what sense? Having forgotten, or not having experienced? Don t you experienc
e even when
unconscious? Can you exist without knowing? A lapse in memory: is it a proof of
non-existence?
And can you validly talk about your own non-existence as an actual experience? Y
ou cannot even
say that your mind did not exist. Did you not wake up on being called? And on wa
king up, was it not
the sense I am that came first? Some seed consciousness must be existing even duri
ng sleep, or
swoon. On waking up the experience runs: I am -- the body -- in the world. It may
appear to arise
in succession but in fact it is all simultaneous, a single idea of having a body
in a world. Can there
be the sense of I am without being somebody or other?
Q: I am always somebody with its memories and habits. I know no other I am .
M: Maybe something prevents you from knowing? When you do not know something whi
ch others
know, what do you do?
Q: I seek the source of their knowledge under their instruction.
M: Is it not important to you to know whether you are a mere body, or something
else? Or, maybe
nothing at all? Don t you see that all your problems are your body s problems -- foo
d, clothing,
shelter, family, friends, name, fame, security, survival -- all these lose their
meaning the moment
you realise that you may not be a mere body.
Q: What benefit is there in knowing that I am not the body?
M: Even to say that you are not the body is not quite true. In a way you are all
the bodies, hearts
and minds and much more. Go deep into the sense of I am and you will find. How do
you find a
thing you have mislaid or forgotten? You keep it in your mind until you recall i
t. The sense of being,
of 'I am' is the first to emerge. Ask yourself whence it comes, or just watch it
quietly. When the mind
stays in the 'I am' without moving, you enter a state which cannot be verbalised
but can be
experienced. All you need to do is try and try again. After all the sense I am is
always with you,
only you have attached all kinds of things to it -- body, feelings, thoughts, id
eas, possessions etc. All
these self-identifications are misleading. Because of them you take yourself to
be what you are not.
Q: Then what am I?
M: It is enough to know what you are not. You need not know what you are. For as
long as
knowledge means description in terms of what is already known, perceptual, or co
nceptual, there
can be no such thing as self-knowledge, for what you are cannot be described, ex
cept as except as
total negation. All you can say is: I am not this, I am not that . You cannot meani
ngfully say this is
what I am . It just makes no sense. What you can point out as 'this' or 'that' can
not be yourself.
Surely, you can not be 'something' else. You are nothing perceivable, or imagina
ble. Yet, without
you there can be neither perception nor imagination. You observe the heart feeli
ng, the mind
thinking, the body acting; the very act of perceiving shows that you are not wha
t you perceive. Can
there be perception, experience without you? An experience must belong'. Somebody
must come
and declare it as his own. Without an experiencer the experience is not real. It
is the experiencer
that imparts reality to experience. An experience which you cannot have, of what
value is it to you?
Q: The sense of being an experiencer, the sense of I am , is it not also an experie
nce?
M: Obviously, every thing experienced is an experience. And in every experience
there arises the
experiencer of it. Memory creates the illusion of continuity. In reality each ex
perience has its own
experiencer and the sense of identity is due to the common factor at the root of
all experiencer-
experience relations. Identity and continuity are not the same. Just as each flo
wer has its own
colour, but all colours are caused by the same light, so do many experiences app
ear in the
undivided and indivisible awareness, each separate in memory, identical in essen
ce. This essence
is the root, the foundation, the timeless and spaceless 'possibility' of all exp
erience.
Q: How do I get at it?
M: You need not get at it, for you are it. It will get at you, if you give it a
chance. Let go your
attachment to the unreal and the real will swiftly and smoothly step into its ow
n. Stop imagining
yourself being or doing this or that and the realisation that you are the source
and heart of all will
dawn upon you. With this will come great love which is not choice or predilectio
n, nor attachment,
but a power which makes all things love-worthy and lovable.
2. Obsession with the body
Questioner: Maharaj, you are sitting in front of me and I am here at your feet.
What is the basic
difference between us?
Maharaj: There is no basic difference.
Q: Still there must be some real difference, I come to you, you do not come to m
e.
M: Because you imagine differences, you go here and there in search of superior pe
ople.
Q: You too are a superior person. You claim to know the real, while I do not.
M: Did I ever tell you that you do not know and, therefore, you are inferior? Le
t those who invented
such distinctions prove them. I do not claim to know what you do not. In fact, I
know much less than
you do.
Q: Your words are wise, your behaviour noble, your grace all-powerful.
M: I know nothing about it all and see no difference between you and me. My life
is a succession of
events, just like yours. Only I am detached and see the passing show as a passin
g show, while you
stick to things and move along with them.
Q: What made you so dispassionate?
M: Nothing in particular. It so happened that I trusted my Guru. He told me I am
nothing but my self
and I believed him. Trusting him, I behaved accordingly and ceased caring for wh
at was not me, nor
mine.
Q: Why were you lucky to trust your teacher fully, while our trust is nominal an
d verbal?
M: Who can say? It happened so. Things happen without cause and reason and, afte
r all, what
does it matter, who is who? Your high opinion of me is your opinion only. Any mo
ment you may
change it. Why attach importance to opinions, even your own?
Q: Still, you are different. Your mind seems to be always quiet and happy. And m
iracles happen
round you.
M: I know nothing about miracles, and I wonder whether nature admits exceptions
to her laws,
unless we agree that everything is a miracle. As to my mind, there is no such th
ing. There is
consciousness in which everything happens. It is quite obvious and within the ex
perience of
everybody. You just do not look carefully enough. Look well, and see what I see.
Q: What do you see?
M: I see what you too could see, here and now, but for the wrong focus of your a
ttention. You give
no attention to your self. Your mind is all with things, people and ideas, never
with your self. Bring
your self into focus, become aware of your own existence. See how you function,
watch the motives
and the results of your actions. Study the prison you have built around yourself
by inadvertence. By
knowing what you are not, you come to know your self. The way back to your self
is through refusal
and rejection. One thing is certain: the real is not imaginary, it is not a prod
uct of the mind. Even the
sense I am is not continuous, though it is a useful pointer; it shows where to see
k, but not what to
seek. Just have a good look at it. Once you are convinced that you cannot say tr
uthfully about your
self anything except I am , and that nothing that can be pointed at, can be your se
lf, the need for
the I am is over -- you are no longer intent on verbalising what you are. All you
need is to get rid of
the tendency to define your self. All definitions apply to your body only and to
its expressions. Once
this obsession with the body goes, you will revert to your natural state, sponta
neously and
effortlessly. The only difference between us is that I am aware of my natural st
ate, while you are
bemused. Just like gold made into ornaments has no advantage over gold dust, exc
ept when the
mind makes it so, so are we one in being -- we differ only in appearance. We dis
cover it by being
earnest, by searching, enquiring, questioning daily and hourly, by giving one's
life to this discovery.
3. The Living Present
Questioner: As I can see, there is nothing wrong with my body nor with my real b
eing. Both are not
of my making and need not be improved upon. What has gone wrong is the inner body ,
call it
mind, consciousness, antahkarana, whatever the name.
Maharaj: What do you consider to be wrong with your mind?
Q: It is restless, greedy of the pleasant and afraid of the unpleasant.
M: What is wrong with its seeking the pleasant and shirking the unpleasant? Betw
een the banks of
pain and pleasure the river of life flows. It is only when the mind refuses to f
low with life, and gets
stuck at the banks, that it becomes a problem. By flowing with life I mean accep
tance -- letting come
what comes and go what goes. Desire not, fear not, observe the actual, as and wh
en it happens, for
you are not what happens, you are to whom it happens. Ultimately even the observ
er you are not.
You are the ultimate potentiality of which the all-embracing consciousness is th
e manifestation and
expression.
Q: Yet, between the body and the self there lies a cloud of thoughts and feeling
s, which neither
server the body nor the self. These thoughts and feelings are flimsy, transient
and meaningless,
mere mental dust that blinds and chokes, yet they are there, obscuring and destr
oying.
M: Surely, the memory of an event cannot pass for the event itself. Nor can the
anticipation. There
is something exceptional, unique, about the present event, which the previous, o
r the coming do not
have. There is a livingness about it, an actuality; it stands out as if illumina
ted. There is the stamp
of reality on the actual, which the past and the future do not have.
Q: What gives the present that 'stamp of reality ?
M: There is nothing peculiar in the present event to make it different from the
past and future. For a
moment the past was actual and the future will become so. What makes the present
so different?
Obviously, my presence. I am real for I am always now, in the present, and what
is with me now
shares in my reality. The past is in memory, the future -- in imagination. There
is nothing in the
present event itself that makes it stand out as real. It may be some simple, per
iodical occurrence,
like the striking of the clock. In spite of our knowing that the successive stro
kes are identical, the
present stroke is quite different from the previous one and the next -- as remem
bered, or expected.
A thing focussed in the now is with me, for I am ever present; it is my own real
ity that I impart to the
present event.
Q: But we deal with things remembered as if they were real.
M: We consider memories, only when they come into the present The forgotten is n
ot counted until
one is reminded -- which implies, bringing into the now.
Q: Yes, I can see there is in the now some unknown factor that gives momentary r
eality to the
transient actuality.
M: You need not say it is unknown, for you see it in constant operation. Since y
ou were born, has it
ever changed? Things and thoughts have been changing all the time. But the feeli
ng that what is
now is real has never changed, even in dream.
Q: In deep sleep there is no experience of the present reality.
M: The blankness of deep sleep is due entirely to the lack of specific memories.
But a general
memory of well-being is there. There is a difference in feeling when we say I was
deeply asleep
from I was absent .
Q: We shall repeat the question we began with: between life s source and life s expr
ession (which
is the body), there is the mind and its ever-changeful states. The stream of men
tal states is endless,
meaningless and painful. Pain is the constant factor. What we call pleasure is b
ut a gap, an interval
between two painful states. Desire and fear are the weft and warp of living, and
both are made of
pain. Our question is: can there be a happy mind?
M: Desire is the memory of pleasure and fear is the memory of pain. Both make th
e mind restless.
Moments of pleasure are merely gaps in the stream of pain. How can the mind be h
appy?
Q: That is true when we desire pleasure or expect pain. But there are moments of
unexpected,
unanticipated joy. Pure joy, uncontaminated by desire -- unsought, undeserved, G
od-given.
M: Still, joy is joy only against a background of pain.
Q: Is pain a cosmic fact, or purely mental?
M: The universe is complete and where there is completeness, where nothing lacks
, what can give
pain?
Q: The Universe may be complete as a whole, but incomplete in details.
M: A part of the whole seen in relation to the whole is also complete. Only when
seen in isolation it
becomes deficient and thus a seat of pain. What makes for isolation?
Q: Limitations of the mind, of course. The mind cannot see the whole for the par
t.
M: Good enough. The mind, by its very nature, divides and opposes. Can there be
some other
mind, which unites and harmonises, which sees the whole in the part and the part
as totally related
to the whole?
Q: The other mind -- where to look for it?
M: In the going beyond the limiting, dividing and opposing mind. In ending the m
ental process as
we know it. When this comes to an end, that mind is born.
Q: In that mind, the problem of joy and sorrow exist no longer?
M: Not as we know them, as desirable or repugnant. It becomes rather a question
of love seeking
expression and meeting with obstacles. The inclusive mind is love in action, bat
tling against
circumstances, initially frustrated, ultimately victorious.
Q: Between the spirit and the body, is it love that provides the bridge?
M: What else? Mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it.
4. Real World is Beyond the Mind
Questioner: On several occasions the question was raised as to whether the unive
rse is subject to
the law of causation, or does it exist and function outside the law. You seem to
hold the view that it
is uncaused, that everything, however small, is uncaused, arising and disappeari
ng for no known
reason whatsoever.
Maharaj: Causation means succession in time of events in space, the space being
physical or
mental. Time, space, causation are mental categories, arising and subsiding with
the mind.
Q: As long as the mind operates, causation is a valid law.
M: Like everything mental, the so-called law of causation contradicts itself. No
thing in existence
has a particular cause; the entire universe contributes to the existence of even
the smallest thing;
nothing could be as it is without the universe being what it is. When the source
and ground of
everything is the only cause of everything, to speak of causality as a universal
law is wrong. The
universe is not bound by its content, because its potentialities are infinite; b
esides it is a
manifestation, or expression of a principle fundamentally and totally free.
Q: Yes, one can see that ultimately to speak of one thing being the only cause o
f another thing is
altogether wrong. Yet, in actual life we invariably initiate action with a view
to a result.
M: Yes, there is a lot of such activity going on, because of ignorance. 'Would p
eople know that
nothing can happen unless the entire universe makes it happen, they would achiev
e much more
with less expenditure of energy.
Q: If everything is an expression of the totality of causes, how can we talk of
a purposeful action
towards an achievement?
M: The very urge to achieve is also an expression of the total universe. It mere
ly shows that the
energy potential has risen at a particular point. It is the illusion of time tha
t makes you talk of
causality. When the past and the future are seen in the timeless now, as parts o
f a common pattern,
the idea of cause-effect loses its validity and creative freedom takes its place
.
Q: Yet, I cannot see how can anything come to be without a cause.
M: When I say a thing is without a cause, I mean it can be without
a particular cause. Your own
mother was needed to give you birth; But you could not have been born without th
e sun and the
earth. Even these could not have caused your birth without your own desire to be
born. It is desire
that gives birth, that gives name and form. The desirable is imagined and wanted
and manifests
itself as something tangible or conceivable.
Thus is created the world in which we live, our personal
world. The real world is beyond the mind's ken; we see it through the net of our
desires,
divided into pleasure and pain, right and wrong, inner and outer. To see the uni
verse as it is, you
must step beyond the net. It is not hard to do so, for the net is full of holes.
Q: What do you mean by holes? And how to find them?
M: Look at the net and its many contradictions. You do and undo at every step. Y
ou want peace,
love, happiness and work hard to create pain, hatred and war. You want longevity
and overeat, you
want friendship and exploit. See your net as made of such contradictions and rem
ove them -- your
very seeing them will make them go.
Q: Since my seeing the contradiction makes it go, is there no causal link betwee
n my seeing and
its going?
M: Causality, even as a concept, does not apply to chaos.
Q: To what extent is desire a causal factor?
M: One of the many. For everything there are innumerable causal factors. But the
source of all that
is, is the Infinite Possibility, the Supreme Reality, which is in you and which
throws its power and
light and love on every experience. But, this source is not a cause and no cause
is a source.
Because of that, I say everything is uncaused. You may try to trace how a thing
happens, but you
cannot find out why a thing is as it is. A thing is as it is, because the univer
se is as it is.
5. What is Born must Die
Questioner: Is the witness-consciousness permanent or not?
Maharaj: It is not permanent. The knower rises and sets with the known. That in
which both the
knower and the known arise and set, is beyond time. The words permanent or etern
al do not apply.
Q: In sleep there is neither the known, nor the knower. What keeps the body sens
itive and
receptive?
M: Surely you cannot say the knower was absent. The experience of things and tho
ughts was not
there, that is all. But the absence of experience too is experience. It is like
entering a dark room and
saying: 'I see nothing'. A man blind from birth knows not what darkness means. S
imilarly, only the
knower knows that he does not know. Sleep is merely a lapse in memory. Life goes
on.
Q: And what is death?
M: It is the change in the living process of a particular body. Integration ends
and disintegration
sets in.
Q: But what about the knower. With the disappearance of the body, does the knowe
r disappear?
M: Just as the knower of the body appears at birth, so he disappears at death.
Q: And nothing remains?
M: Life remains. Consciousness needs a vehicle and an instrument for its manifes
tation. When life
produces another body, another knower comes into being,
Q: Is there a causal link between the successive bodyknowers,
or body-minds?
M: Yes, there is something that may be called the memory body, or causal body, a
record of all that
was thought, wanted and done. It is like a cloud of images held together
Q: What is this sense of a separate existence?
M: It is a reflection in a separate body of the one reality. In this reflection
the unlimited and the
limited are confused and taken to be the same. To undo this confusion is the pur
pose of Yoga.
Q: Does not death undo this confusion?
M: In death only the body dies. Life does not, consciousness does not, reality d
oes not. And the life
is never so alive as after death.
Q: But does one get reborn?
M: What was born must die. Only the unborn is deathless. Find what is it that ne
ver sleeps and
never wakes, and whose pale reflection is our sense of 'I'.
Q: How am I to go about this finding out?
M: How do you go about finding anything? By keeping your mind and heart in it. I
nterest there must
be and steady remembrance. To remember what needs to be remembered is the secret
of success.
You come to it through earnestness.
Q: Do you mean to say that mere wanting to find out is enough? Surely, both qual
ifications and
opportunities are needed.
M: These will come with earnestness. What is supremely important is to be free f
rom
contradictions: the goal and the way must not be on different levels; life and l
ight must not quarrel;
behaviour must not betray belief. Call it honesty, integrity, wholeness; you mus
t not go back, undo,
uproot, abandon the conquered ground. Tenacity of purpose and honesty in pursuit
will bring you to
your goal.
Q: Tenacity and honesty are endowments, surely! Not a trace of them I have.
M: All will come as you go on. Take the first step first. All blessings come fro
m within. Turn within. 'l
am' you know. Be with it all the time you can spare, until you revert to it spon
taneously. There is no
simpler and easier way.
6. Meditation
Questioner: All teachers advise to meditate. What is the purpose of meditation?
Maharaj: We know the outer world of sensations and actions, but of our inner wor
ld of thoughts and
feelings we know very little. The primary purpose of meditation is to become con
scious of, and
familiar with, our inner life. The ultimate purpose is to reach the source of li
fe and consciousness.
Incidentally practice of meditation affects deeply our character. We are slaves
to what we do not
know; of what we know we are masters. Whatever vice or weakness in ourselves we
discover and
understand its causes and its workings, we overcome
it by the very knowing; the unconscious
dissolves when brought into the conscious. The dissolution of the unconscious re
leases energy; the
mind feels adequate and become quiet.
Q: What is the use of a quiet mind?
M: When the mind is quiet, we come to know ourselves as the pure witness. We wit
hdraw from the
experience and its experiencer and stand apart in pure awareness, which is betwe
en and beyond
the two. The personality, based on self-identification, on imagining oneself to
be something: 'I am
this, I am that', continues, but only as a part of the objective world. Its iden
tification with the witness
snaps.
Q: As I can make out, I live on many levels and life on each level requires ener
gy. The self by its
very nature delights in everything and its energies flow outwards. Is it not the
purpose of meditation
to dam up the energies on the higher levels, or to push them back and up, so as
to enable the
higher levels to prosper also?
M: It is not so much the matter of levels as of gunas (qualities). Meditation is
a sattvic activity and
aims at complete elimination of tamas (inertia) and rajas (motivity). Pure sattv
a (harmony) is perfect
freedom from sloth and restlessness.
Q: How to strengthen and purify the sattva?
M: The sattva is pure and strong always. It is like the sun. It may seem obscure
d by clouds and
dust, but only from the point of view of the perceiver. Deal with the causes of
obscuration, not with
the sun.
Q: What is the use of sattva?
M: What is the use of truth, goodness, harmony, beauty? They are their own goal.
They manifest
spontaneously and effortlessly, when things are left to themselves, are not inte
rfered with, not
shunned, or wanted, or conceptualised, but just experienced in full awareness, s
uch awareness
itself is sattva. It does not make use of things and people -- it fulfils them.
Q: Since I cannot improve sattva, am I to deal with tamas and rajas only? How ca
n I deal with
them?
M: By watching their influence in you and on you. Be aware of them in operation,
watch their
expressions in your thoughts, words and deeds, and gradually their grip on you w
ill lessen and the
clear light of sattva will emerge. It is neither difficult, nor a protracted pro
cess; earnestness is the
only condition of success.
7. The Mind
Questioner: There are very interesting books written by apparently very competen
t people, in
which the illusoriness of the world is denied (though not its transitoriness). A
ccording to them, there
exists a hierarchy of beings, from the lowest to the highest; on each level the
complexity of the
organism enables and reflects the depth, breadth and intensity of consciousness,
without any
visible or knowable culmination. One law supreme rules throughout: evolution of
forms for the
growth and enrichment of consciousness and manifestation of its infinite potenti
alities.
Maharaj: This may or may not be so. Even if it is, it is only so from the mind s p
oint of view, but In
fact the entire universe (mahadakash) exists only in consciousness (chidakash),
while I have my
stand in the Absolute (paramakash). In pure being consciousness arises; in consc
iousness the
world appears and disappears. All there is is me, all there is is mine. Before a
ll beginnings, after all
endings -- I am. All has its being in me, in the I am , that shines in every living
being. Even not-
being is unthinkable without me. Whatever happens, I must be there to witness it
.
Q: Why do you deny being to the world?
M: I do not negate the world. I see it as appearing in consciousness, which is t
he totality of the
known in the immensity of the unknown.
What begins and ends is mere appearance. The world can be said to appear, but no
t to be. The
appearance may last very long on some scale of time, and be very short on anothe
r, but ultimately it
comes to the same. Whatever is time bound is momentary and has no reality.
Q: Surely, you see the actual world as it surrounds you. You seem to behave quit
e normally!
M: That is how it appears to you. What in your case occupies the entire field of
consciousness, is a
mere speck in mine. The world lasts, but for a moment. It is your memory that ma
kes you think that
the world continues. Myself, I don't live by memory. I see the world as it is, a
momentary
appearance in consciousness.
Q: In your consciousness?
M: All idea of me and mine , even of I am is in consciousness.
Q: Is then your absolute being (paramakash) un-consciousness?
M: The idea of un-consciousness exists in consciousness only.
Q: Then, how do you know you are in the supreme state?
M: Because I am in it. It is the only natural state.
Q: Can you describe it?
M: Only by negation, as uncaused, independent, unrelated, undivided, uncomposed,
unshakable,
unquestionable, unreachable by effort. Every positive definition is from memory
and, therefore,
inapplicable. And yet my state is supremely actual and, therefore, possible, rea
lisable, attainable.
Q: Are you not immersed timelessly in an abstraction?
M: Abstraction is mental and verbal and disappears in sleep, or swoon; it reappe
ars in time; I am in
my own state (swarupa) timelessly in the now. Past and future are in mind only -
- I am now.
Q: The world too is now.
M: Which world?
Q: The world around us.
M: It is your world you have in mind, not mine. What do you know of me, when eve
n my talk with
you is in your world only? You have no reason to believe that my world is identi
cal with yours. My
world is real, true, as it is perceived, while yours appears and disappears, acc
ording to the state of
your mind. Your world is something alien, and you are afraid of it. My world is
myself. I am at home.
Q: If you are the world, how can you be conscious of it? Is not the subject of c
onsciousness
different from its object?
M: Consciousness and the world appear and disappear together, hence they are two
aspects of
the same state.
Q: In sleep I am not, and the world continues.
M: How do you know?
Q: On waking up I come to know. My memory tells me.
M: Memory is in the mind. The mind continues in sleep.
Q: It is partly in abeyance.
M: But its world picture is not affected. As long as the mind is there, your bod
y and your world are
there. Your world is mind-made, subjective, enclosed within the mind, fragmentar
y, temporary,
personal, hanging on the thread of memory.
Q: So is yours?
M: Oh no. I live in a world of realities, while yours is of imagination. Your wo
rld is personal, private,
unshareable, intimately your own. Nobody can enter it, see as you see, hear as y
ou hear, feel your
emotions and think your thoughts. In your world you are truly alone, enclosed in
your ever-changing
dream, which you take for life. My world is an open world, common to all, access
ible to all. In my
world there is community, insight, love, real quality; the individual is the tot
al, the totality -- in the
individual. All are one and the One is all.
Q: Is your world full of things and people as is mine?
M: No, it is full of myself.
Q: But do you see and hear as we do?
M: Yes, l appear to hear and see and talk and act, but to me it just happens, as
to you digestion or
perspiration happens. The body-mind machine looks after it, but leaves me out of
it. Just as you do
not need to worry about growing hair, so I need not worry about words and action
s. They just
happen and leave me unconcerned, for in my world nothing ever goes wrong.
8. The Self Stands Beyond Mind
Questioner: As a child fairly often I experienced states of complete happiness,
verging on ecstasy:
later, they ceased, but since I came to India they reappeared, particularly afte
r I met you. Yet these
states, however wonderful, are not lasting. They come and go and there is no kno
wing when they
will come back.
Maharaj: How can anything be steady in a mind which itself is not steady?
Q: How can I make my mind steady?
M: How can an unsteady mind make itself steady? Of course it cannot. It is the n
ature of the mind
to roam about. All you can do is to shift the focus of consciousness beyond the
mind.
Q: How is it done?
M: Refuse all thoughts except one: the thought 'I am'. The mind will rebel in th
e beginning, but with
patience and perseverance it will yield and keep quiet. Once you are quiet, thin
gs will begin to
happen spontaneously and quite naturally without any interference on your part.
Q: Can I avoid this protracted battle with my mind?
M: Yes, you can. Just live your life as it comes, but alertly, watchfully, allow
ing everything to
happen as it happens, doing the natural things the natural way, suffering, rejoi
cing -- as life brings.
This also is a way.
Q: Well, then I can as well marry, have children, run a business be happy.
M: Sure. You may or may not be happy, take it in your stride.
Q: Yet I want happiness.
M: True happiness cannot be found in things that change and pass away. Pleasure
and pain
alternate inexorably. Happiness comes from the self and can be found in the self
only. Find your
real self (swarupa) and all else will come with it.
Q: If my real self is peace and love, why is it so restless?
M: It is not your real being that is restless, but its reflection in the mind ap
pears restless because
the mind is restless. It is just like the reflection of the moon in the water st
irred by the wind. The
wind of desire stirs the mind and the 'me', which is but a reflection of the Sel
f in the mind, appears
changeful. But these ideas of movement, of restlessness, of pleasure and pain ar
e all in the mind.
The Self stands beyond the mind, aware, but unconcerned.
Q: How to reach it?
M: You are the Self, here and now Leave the mind alone, stand aware and unconcer
ned and you
will realise that to stand alert but detached, watching events come and go, is a
n aspect of your real
nature.
Q: What are the other aspects?
M: The aspects are infinite in number. Realise one, and you will realise all.
Q: Tell me some thing that would help me.
M: You know best what you need!
Q: I am restless. How can I gain peace?
M: For what do you need peace?
Q: To be happy.
M: Are you not happy now?
Q: No, I am not.
M: What makes you unhappy?
Q: I have what I don t want, and want what I don t have.
M: Why don t you invert it: want what you have and care not for what you don t have?
Q: I want what is pleasant and don t want what is painful.
M: How do you know what is pleasant and what is not?
Q: From past experience, of course.
M: Guided by memory you have been pursuing the pleasant and shunning the unpleas
ant. Have
you succeeded?
Q: No, I have not. The pleasant does not last. Pain sets in again.
M: Which pain?
Q: The desire for pleasure, the fear of pain, both are states of distress. Is th
ere a state of
unalloyed pleasure?
M: Every pleasure, physical or mental, needs an instrument. Both the physical an
d mental
instruments are material, they get tired and worn out. The pleasure they yield i
s necessarily limited
in intensity and duration. Pain is the background of all your pleasures. You wan
t them because you
suffer. On the other hand, the very search for pleasure is the cause of pain. It
is a vicious circle.
Q: I can see the mechanism of my confusion, but I do not see my way out of it.
M: The very examination of the mechanism shows the way. After all, your confusio
n is only in your
mind, which never rebelled so far against confusion and never got to grips with
it. It rebelled only
against pain.
Q: So, all I can do is to stay confused?
M: Be alert. Question, observe, investigate, learn all you can about confusion,
how it operates,
what it does to you and others. By being clear about confusion you become clear
of confusion.
Q: When I look into myself, I find my strongest desire is to create a monument,
to build something
which will outlast me. Even when I think of a home, wife and child, it is becaus
e it is a lasting, solid,
testimony to myself.
M: Right, build yourself a monument. How do you propose to do it?
Q: It matters little what I build, as long as it is permanent.
M: Surely, you can see for yourself that nothing is permanent. All wears out, br
eaks down,
dissolves. The very ground on which you build gives way. What can you build that
will outlast all?
Q: Intellectually, verbally, I am aware that all is transient. Yet, somehow my h
eart wants
permanency. I want to create something that lasts.
M: Then you must build it of something lasting. What have you that is lasting? N
either your body
nor mind will last. You must look elsewhere.
Q: I long for permanency, but I find it nowhere.
M: Are you, yourself, not permanent?
Q: I was born, I shall die.
M: Can you truly say you were not before you were born and can you possibly say
when dead:
Now I am no more ? You cannot say from your own experience that you are not. You ca
n only say
I am . Others too cannot tell you you are not .
Q: There is no I am in sleep.
M: Before you make such sweeping statements, examine carefully your waking state
. You will soon
discover that it is full of gaps, when the min blanks out. Notice how little you
remember even when
fully awake. You just don t remember. A gap in memory is not necessarily a gap in
consciousness.
Q: Can I make myself remember my state of deep sleep?
M: Of course! By eliminating the intervals of inadvertence during your waking ho
urs you will
gradually eliminate the long interval of absent-mindedness, which you call sleep
. You will be aware
that you are asleep.
Q: Yet, the problem of permanency, of continuity of being, is not solved.
M: Permanency is a mere idea, born of the action of time. Time again depends of
memory. By
permanency you mean unfailing memory through endless time. You want to eternalis
e the mind,
which is not possible.
Q: Then what is eternal?
M: That which does not change with time. You cannot eternalise a transient thing
-- only the
changeless is eternal.
Q: I am familiar with the general sense of what you say. I do not crave for more
knowledge. All I
want is peace.
M: You can have for the asking all the peace you want.
Q: I am asking.
M: You must ask with an undivided heart and live an integrated life.
Q: How?
M: Detach yourself from all that makes your mind restless. Renounce all that dis
turbs its peace. If
you want peace, deserve it.
Q: Surely everybody deserves peace.
M: Those only deserve it, who don't disturb it.
Q: In what way do I disturb peace?
M: By being a slave to your desires and fears.
Q: Even when they are justified?
M: Emotional reactions, born of ignorance or inadvertence, are never justified.
Seek a clear mind
and a clean heart. All you need is to keep quietly alert, enquiring into the rea
l nature of yourself.
This is the only way to peace.
9. Responses of Memory
Questioner: Some say the universe was created. Others say that it always existed
and is for ever
undergoing transformation. Some say it is subject to eternal laws. Others deny e
ven causality.
Some say the world is real. Others -- that it has no being whatsoever.
Maharaj: Which world are you enquiring about?
Q: The world of my perceptions, of course.
M: The world you can perceive is a very small world indeed. And it is entirely p
rivate. Take it to be
a dream and be done with it.
Q: How can I take it to be a dream? A dream does not last.
M: How long will your own world last?
Q: After all, my little world is but a part of the total.
M: Is not the idea of a total world a part of your personal world? The universe
does not come to tell
you that you are a part of it. It is you who have invented a totality to contain
you as a part. In fact all
you know is your own private world, however well you have furnished it with your
imaginations and
expectations.
Q: Surely, perception is not imagination!
M: What else? Perception is recognition, is it not? Something entirely unfamilia
r can be sensed, but
cannot be perceived. Perception involves memory.
Q: Granted, but memory does not make it illusion.
M: Perception, imagination, expectation, anticipation, illusion -- all are based
on memory. There are
hardly any border lines between them. They just merge into each other. All are r
esponses of
memory.
Q: Still, memory is there to prove the reality of my world.
M: How much do you remember? Try to write down from memory what you were thinkin
g, saying
and doing on the 30th of the last month.
Q: Yes, there is a blank.
M: It is not so bad. You do remember a lot -- unconscious memory makes the world
in which you
live so familiar.
Q: Admitted that the world in which I live is subjective and partial. What about
you? In what kind of
world do you live?
M: My world is just like yours. I see, I hear, I feel, I think, I speak and act
in a world I perceive, just
like you. But with you it is all, with me it is nothing. Knowing the world to be
a part of myself, I pay it
no more attention than you pay to the food you have eaten. While being prepared
and eaten, the
food is separate from you and your mind is on it; once swallowed, you become tot
ally unconscious
of it. I have eaten up the world and I need not think of it any more.
Q: Don t you become completely irresponsible?
M: How could I? How can I hurt something which is one with me. On the contrary,
without thinking
of the world, whatever I do will be of benefit to it. Just as the body sets itse
lf right unconsciously, so
am I ceaselessly active in setting the world right.
Q: Nevertheless, you are aware of the immense suffering of the world?
M: Of course I am, much more than you are.
Q: Then what do you do?
M: I look at it through the eyes of God and find that all is well.
Q: How can you say that all is well? Look at the wars, the exploitation, the cru
el strife between the
citizen and the state.
M: All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man's power to put an end
to them. God
helps by facing man with the results of his actions and demanding that the balan
ce should be
restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the healing hand
of God.
10. Witnessing
Questioner: I am full of desires and want them fulfilled. How am I to get what I
want?
Maharaj: Do you deserve what you desire? In some way or other you have to work f
or the fulfilment
of your desires. Put in energy and wait for the results.
Q: Where am I to get the energy?
M: Desire itself is energy.
Q: Then why does not every desire get fulfilled?
M: Maybe it was not strong enough and lasting.
Q: Yes, that is my problem. I want things, but I am lazy when it comes to action
.
M: When your desire is not clear nor strong, it cannot take shape. Besides, if y
our desires are
personal, for your own enjoyment, the energy you give them is necessarily limite
d; it cannot
be
more than what you have.
Q: Yet, often ordinary persons do attain what they desire.
M: After desiring it very much and for a long time. Even then, their achievement
s are limited.
Q: And what about unselfish desires?
M: When you desire the common good, the whole world desires
with you. Make humanity's desire
your own and work for it. There you cannot fail,
Q: Humanity is God s work, not mine. I am concerned with myself. Have I not the ri
ght to see my
legitimate desires fulfilled? They will hurt no one. My desires are legitimate.
They are right desires,
why don t they come true?
M: Desires are right or wrong according to circumstances; it depends on how you
look at them. It is
only for the individual that a distinction between right and wrong is valid.
Q: What are the guide-lines for such distinction? How am I to know which of my d
esires are right
and which are wrong?
M: In your case desires that lead to sorrow are wrong and those which lead to ha
ppiness are right.
But you must not forget others. Their sorrow and happiness also count.
Q: Results are in the future. How can I know what they will be?
M: Use your mind. Remember. Observe. You are not different from others. Most of
their
experiences are valid for you too. Think clearly and deeply, go into the entire
structure of your
desires and their ramifications. They are a most important part of your mental a
nd emotional make-
up and powerfully affect your actions. Remember, you cannot abandon what you do
not know. To
go beyond yourself, you must know yourself.
Q: What does it mean to know myself? By knowing myself what exactly do I come to
know?
M: All that you are not.
Q: And not what I am?
M: What you are, you already are. By knowing what you are not, you are free of i
t and remain in
your own natural state. It all happens quite spontaneously and effortlessly.
Q: And what do I discover?
M: You discover that there is nothing to discover. You are what you are and that
is all.
Q: I do not understand!
M: It is your fixed idea that you must be something or other, that blinds you.
Q: How can I get rid of this idea?
M: If you trust me, believe when I tell you that you are the pure awareness that
illuminates
consciousness and its infinite content. Realise this and live accordingly. If yo
u do not believe me,
then go within, enquiring What an I ? or, focus your mind on I am , which is pure and
simple being.
Q: On what my faith in you depends?
M: On your insight into other people s hearts. If you cannot look into my heart, l
ook into your own.
Q: I can do neither.
M: Purify yourself by a well-ordered and useful life. Watch over your thoughts,
feelings, words and
actions. This will clear your vision.
Q: Must I not renounce every thing first, and live a homeless life?
M: You cannot renounce. You may leave your home and give trouble to your family,
but
attachments are in the mind and will not leave you until you know your mind in a
nd out. First thing
first -- know yourself, all else will come with it.
Q: But you already told me that I am the Supreme Reality. Is it not self-knowled
ge?
M: Of course you are the Supreme Reality! But what of it? Every grain of sand is
God; to know it is
important, but that is only the beginning.
Q: Well, you told me that I am the Supreme Reality. I believe you. What next is
there for me to do?
M: I told you already. Discover all you are not. Body, feelings, thoughts, ideas
, time, space, being
and not-being, this or that -- nothing concrete or abstract you can point out to
is you. A mere verbal
statement will not do -- you may repeat a formula endlessly without any result w
hatsoever. You
must watch yourself
continuously -- particularly your mind -- moment by moment, missing nothing.
This witnessing is essential for the separation of the self from the not-self.
Q: The witnessing -- is it not my real nature?
M: For witnessing, there must be something else to witness. We are still in dual
ity!
Q: What about witnessing the witness? Awareness of awareness?
M: Putting words together will not take you far. Go within and discover what you
are not. Nothing
else matters.
11. Awareness and Consciousness
Questioner: What do you do when asleep?
Maharaj: I am aware of being asleep.
Q: Is not sleep a state of unconsciousness?
M: Yes, I am aware of being unconscious.
Q: And when awake, or dreaming?
M: I am aware of being awake or dreaming.
Q: I do not catch you. What exactly do you mean? Let me make my terms clear: by
being asleep I
mean unconscious, by being awake I mean conscious, by dreaming I mean conscious
of one s
mind, but not of the surroundings.
M: Well, it is about the same with me, Yet, there seems to be a difference. In e
ach state you forget
the other two, while to me, there is but one state of being, including and trans
cending the three
mental states of waking, dreaming and sleeping.
Q: Do you see in the world a direction and a purpose?
M: The world is but a reflection of my imagination. Whatever I want to see, I ca
n see. But why
should I invent patterns of creation, evolution and destruction? I do not need t
hem and have no
desire to lock up the world in a mental picture.
Q: Coming back to sleep. Do you dream?
M: Of course.
Q: What are your dreams?
M: Echoes of the waking state.
Q: And your deep sleep?
M: The brain consciousness is suspended.
Q: Are you then unconscious?
M: Unconscious of my surroundings -- yes.
Q: Not quite unconscious?
M: I remain aware that I am unconscious.
Q: You use the words 'aware' and 'conscious'. Are they not the same?
M: Awareness is primordial; it is the original state, beginningless, endless, un
caused, unsupported,
without parts, without change. Consciousness is on contact, a reflection against
a surface, a state of
duality. There can be no consciousness without awareness, but there can be aware
ness without
consciousness, as in deep sleep. Awareness is absolute, consciousness is relativ
e to its content;
consciousness is always of something. Consciousness is partial and changeful, aw
areness is total,
changeless, calm and silent. And it is the common matrix of every experience.
Q: How does one go beyond consciousness into awareness?
M: Since it is awareness that makes consciousness possible, there is awareness i
n every state of
consciousness. Therefore the very consciousness of being conscious is already a
movement in
awareness. Interest in your stream of consciousness takes you to awareness. It i
s not a new state.
It is at once recognised as the original, basic existence, which is life itself,
and also love and joy.
Q: Since reality is all the time with us, what does self-realisation consist of?
M: Realisation is but the opposite of ignorance. To take the world as real and o
ne s self as unreal is
ignorance. The cause of sorrow. To know the self as the only reality and all els
e as temporal and
transient is freedom, peace and joy. It is all very simple. Instead of seeing th
ings as imagined, learn
to see them as they are. It is like cleansing a mirror. The same mirror that sho
ws you the world as it
is, will also show you your own face. The thought 'I am' is the polishing cloth.
Use it.
12. The Person is not Reality
Questioner: Kindly tell us how you realised.
Maharaj: I met my Guru when I was 34 and realised by 37.
Q: What happened? What was the change?
M: Pleasure and pain lost their sway over me. I was free from desire and fear. I
found myself full,
needing nothing. I saw that in the ocean of pure awareness, on the surface of th
e universal
consciousness, the numberless waves of the phenomenal worlds arise and subside b
eginninglessly
and endlessly. As consciousness, they are all me. As events they are all mine. T
here is a
mysterious power that looks after them. That power is awareness, Self, Life, God
, whatever name
you give it. It is the foundation, the ultimate support of all that is, just lik
e gold is the basis for all gold
jewellery. And it is so intimately ours! Abstract the name and shape from the je
wellery and the gold
becomes obvious. Be free of name and form and of the desires and fears they crea
te, then what
remains?
Q: Nothingness.
M: Yes, the void remains. But the void is full to the brim. It is the eternal po
tential as consciousness
is the eternal actual.
Q: By potential you mean the future?
M: Past, present and future -- they are all there. And infinitely more.
Q: But since the void is void, it is of little use to us.
M: How can you say so? Without breach in continuity how can there be rebirth? Ca
n there be
renewal without death? Even the darkness of sleep is refreshing and rejuvenating
. Without death
we would have been bogged up for ever in eternal senility.
Q: Is there no such thing as immortality?
M: When life and death are seen as essential to each other, as two aspects of on
e being, that is
immortality. To see the end in the beginning and beginning in the end is the int
imation of eternity.
Definitely, immortality is not continuity. Only the process of change continues.
Nothing lasts.
Q: Awareness lasts?
M: Awareness is not of time. Time exists in consciousness only. Beyond conscious
ness where are
time and space?
Q: Within the field of your consciousness there is your body also.
M: Of course. But the idea 'my body', as different from other bodies, is not the
re. To me it is 'a
body', not 'my body', 'a mind', not 'my mind'. The mind looks after the body all
right, I need not
interfere. What needs be done is being done, in the normal and natural way.
You may not be quite conscious of your physiological functions, but when it come
s to thoughts and
feelings, desires and fears you become acutely self-conscious. To me these too a
re largely
unconscious. I find myself talking to people, or doing things quite correctly an
d appropriately,
without being very much conscious of them. It looks as if I live my physical, wa
king life
automatically, reacting spontaneously and accurately.
Q: Does this spontaneous response come as a result of realisation, or by trainin
g?
M: Both. Devotion to you goal makes you live a clean and orderly life, given to
search for truth and
to helping people, and realisation makes noble virtue easy and spontaneous, by r
emoving for good
the obstacles in the shape of desires and fears and wrong ideas.
Q: Don t you have desires and fears any more?
M: My destiny was to be born a simple man, a commoner, a humble tradesman, with
little of formal
education. My life was the common kind, with common desires and fears. When, thr
ough my faith in
my teacher and obedience to his words, I realised my true being, I left behind m
y human nature to
look after itself, until its destiny is exhausted. Occasionally an old reaction,
emotional or mental,
happens in the mind, but it is at once noticed and discarded. After all, as long
as one is burdened
with a person, one is exposed to its idiosyncrasies and habits.
Q: Are you not afraid of death?
M: I am dead already.
Q: In what sense?
M: I am double dead. Not only am I dead to my body, but to my mind too.
Q: Well, you do not look dead at all!
M: That s what you say! You seem to know my state better than I do!
Q: Sorry. But I just do not understand. You say you are bodyless and mindless, w
hile I see you
very much alive and articulate.
M: A tremendously complex work is going on all the time in your brain and body,
are you conscious
of it? Not at all. Yet for an outsider all seems to be going on intelligently an
d purposefully. Why not
admit that one s entire personal life may sink largely below the threshold of cons
ciousness and yet
proceed sanely and smoothly?
Q: Is it normal?
M: What is normal? Is your life -- obsessed by desires and fears, full of strife
and struggle,
meaningless and joyless -- normal? To be acutely conscious of your body id it no
rmal? To be torn
by feelings, tortured by thoughts: is it normal? A healthy body, a healthy mind
live largely
unperceived by their owner; only occasionally, through pain or suffering they ca
ll for attention and
insight. Why not extend the same to the entire personal life? One can function r
ightly, responding
well and fully to whatever happens, without having to bring it into the focus of
awareness. When self-
control becomes second nature, awareness shifts its focus to deeper levels of ex
istence and action.
Q: Don t you become a robot?
M: What harm is there in making automatic, what is habitual and repetitive? It i
s automatic anyhow.
But when it is also chaotic, it causes pain and suffering and calls for attentio
n. The entire purpose of
a clean and well-ordered life is to liberate man from the thraldom of chaos and
the burden of sorrow.
Q: You seem to be in favour of a computerised life.
M: What is wrong with a life which is free from problems? Personality is merely
a reflection of the
real. Why should not the reflection be true to the original as a matter of cours
e, automatically? Need
the person have any designs of its own? The life of which it is an expression wi
ll guide it. Once you
realise that the person is merely a shadow of the reality, but not reality itsel
f, you cease to fret and
worry. You agree to be guided from within and life becomes a journey into the un
known.
13. The Supreme, the Mind and the Body
Questioner: From what you told us it appears that you are not quite conscious of
your
surroundings. To us you seem extremely alert and active. We cannot possibly beli
eve that you are
in a kind of hypnotic state, which leaves no memory behind. On the contrary, you
r memory seems
excellent. How are we to understand your statement that the world and all it inc
ludes does not exist,
as far as you are concerned.
Maharaj: It is all a matter of focus. Your mind is focussed in the world, mine i
s focussed in reality. It
is like the moon in daylight -- when the sun shines, the moon is hardly visible.
Or, watch how you
take your food. As long as it is in your mouth, you are conscious of it; once sw
allowed, it does not
concern you any longer. It would be troublesome to have it constantly in mind un
til it is eliminated.
The mind should be normally in abeyance -- incessant activity is a morbid state.
The universe works
by itself -- that I know. What else do I need to know?
Q: So a jnani knows what he is doing only when he turns his mind to it; otherwis
e he just acts,
without being concerned.
M: The average man is not conscious of his body as such. He is conscious of his
sensations,
feelings and thoughts. Even these, once detachment sets in, move away from the c
entre of
consciousness and happen spontaneously and effortlessly.
Q: What then is in the centre of consciousness?
M: That which cannot be given name and form, for it is without quality and beyon
d consciousness.
You may say it is a point in consciousness, which is beyond consciousness. Like
a hole in the paper
is both in the paper and yet not of paper, so is the supreme state in the very c
entre of
consciousness, and yet beyond consciousness. It is as if an opening in the mind
through which the
mind is flooded with light. The opening is not even the light. It is just an ope
ning.
Q: An opening is just void, absence.
M: Quite so. From the mind's point of view, it is but an opening for the light o
f awareness to enter
the mental space. By itself the light can only be compared to a solid, dense, ro
cklike, homogeneous
and changeless mass of pure awareness, free from the mental patterns of name and
shape.
Q: Is there any connection between the mental space and the supreme abode?
M: The supreme gives existence to the mind. The mind gives existence to the body
.
Q: And what lies beyond?
M: Take an example. A venerable Yogi, a master in the art of longevity, himself
over 1000 years
old, comes to teach me his art. I fully respect and sincerely admire his achieve
ments, yet all I can
tell him is: of what use is longevity to me? I am beyond time. However long a li
fe may be, it is but a
moment and a dream. In the same way I am beyond all attributes. They appear and
disappear in
my light, but cannot describe me. The universe is all names and forms, based on
qualities and their
differences, while I am beyond. The world is there because I am, but I am not th
e world.
Q: But you are living in the world!
M: That's what you say! I know there is a world, which includes this body and th
is mind, but I do not
consider them to be more mine than other minds and bodies. They are there, in time
and space,
but I am timeless and spaceless.
Q: But since all exists by your light, are you not the creator of the world?
M: I am neither the potentiality nor the actualisation, nor the actuality of thi
ngs. In my light they
come and go as the specks of dust dancing in the sunbeam. The light illumines th
e specks, but
does not depend on them. Nor can it be said to create them. It cannot be even sa
id to know them.
Q: I am asking you a question and you are answering. Are you conscious of the qu
estion and the
answer?
M: In reality I am neither hearing nor answering. In the world of events the que
stion happens and
the answer happens. Nothing happens to me. Everything just happens.
Q: And you are the witness?
M: What does witness mean? Mere knowledge. It rained and now the rain is over. I
did not get wet.
I know it rained, but I am not affected. I just witnessed the rain.
Q: The fully realised man, spontaneously abiding in the supreme state, appears t
o eat, drink and
so on. Is he aware of it, or not?
M: That in which consciousness happens, the universal consciousness or mind, we
call the ether of
consciousness. All the objects of consciousness form the universe. What is beyon
d both, supporting
both, is the supreme state, a state of utter stillness and silence. Whoever goes
there, disappears. It
is unreachable by words, or mind. You may call it God, or Parabrahman, or Suprem
e Reality, but
these are names given by the mind. It is the nameless, contentless, effortless a
nd spontaneous
state, beyond being and not being.
Q: But does one remain conscious?
M: As the universe is the body of the mind, so is consciousness the body of the
supreme. It is not
conscious, but it gives rise to consciousness.
Q: In my daily actions much goes by habit, automatically. I am aware of the gene
ral purpose, but
not of each movement in detail. As my consciousness broadens and deepens, detail
s tend to
recede, leaving me free for the general trends. Does not the same happens to a j
nani, but more so?
M: On the level of consciousness -- yes. In the supreme state, no. This state is
entirely one and
indivisible, a single solid block of reality. The only way of knowing it is to b
e it. The mind cannot
reach it. To perceive it does not need the senses; to know it, does not need the
mind.
Q: That is how God runs the world.
M: God is not running the world.
Q: Then who is doing it?
M: Nobody. All happens by itself. You are asking the question and you are supply
ing the answer.
And you know the answer when you ask the question. All is a play in consciousnes
s. All divisions
are illusory. You can know the false only. The true you must yourself be.
Q: There is the witnessed consciousness and there is the witnessing consciousnes
s. Is the
second the supreme?
M: There are the two -- the person and the witness, the observer. When you see t
hem as one, and
go beyond, you are in the supreme state. It is not perceivable, because it is wh
at makes perception
possible. It is beyond being and not being. It is neither the mirror nor the ima
ge in the mirror. It is
what is -- the timeless reality, unbelievably hard and solid.
Q: The jnani -- is he the witness or the Supreme?
M: He is the Supreme, of course, but he can also be viewed as the universal witn
ess.
Q: But he remains a person?
M: When you believe yourself to be a person, you see persons everywhere. In real
ity there are no
persons, only threads of memories and habits. At the moment of realisation the p
erson ceases.
Identity remains, but identity is not a person, it is inherent in the reality it
self. The person has no
being in itself; it is a reflection in the mind of the witness, the 'I am', whic
h again is a mode of being.
Q: Is the Supreme conscious?
M: Neither conscious nor unconscious, I am telling you from experience.
Q: Pragnanam Brahma. What is this Pragna?
M: It is the un-selfconscious knowledge of life itself.
Q: Is it vitality, the energy of life, livingness?
M: Energy comes first. For everything is a form of energy. Consciousness is most
differentiated in
the waking state. Less so in dream. Still less in sleep. Homogeneous -- in the f
ourth state. Beyond
is the inexpressible monolithic reality, the abode of the jnani.
Q: I have cut my hand. It healed. By what power did it heal?
M: By the power of life.
Q: What is that power?
M: It is consciousness. AII is conscious.
Q: What is the source of consciousness?
M: Consciousness itself is the source of everything.
Q: Can there be life without consciousness?
M: No, nor consciousness without life. They are both one. But in reality only th
e Ultimate is. The
rest is a matter of name and form. And as long as you cling to the idea that onl
y what has name and
shape exists, the Supreme will appear to you nonexisting.
When you understand that names and
shapes are hollow shells without any content whatsoever, and what is real is nam
eless and
formless, pure energy of life and light of consciousness, you will be at peace -
- immersed in the
deep silence of reality.
Q: If time and space are mere illusions and you are beyond, please tell me what
is the weather in
New York. Is it hot or raining there?
M: How can I tell you? Such things need special training. Or, just travelling to
New York. I may be
quite certain that I am beyond time and space, and yet unable to locate myself a
t will at some point
of time and space. I am not interested enough; I see no purpose in undergoing a
special Yogic
training. I have just heard of New York. To me it is a word. Why should I know m
ore than the word
conveys? Every atom may be a universe, as complex as ours. Must I know them all?
I can -- if I
train.
Q: In putting the question about the weather in New York, where did I make the m
istake?
M: The world and the mind are states of being. The supreme is not a state. It pe
rvades, all states,
but it is not a state of something else. It is entirely uncaused, independent, c
omplete in itself,
beyond time and space, mind and matter.
Q: By what sign do you recognise it?
M: That's the point that it leaves no traces. There is nothing to recognise it b
y. It must be seen
directly, by giving up all search for signs and approaches. When all names and f
orms have been
given up, the real is with you. You need not seek it. Plurality and diversity ar
e the play of the mind
only. Reality is one.
Q: If reality leaves no evidence, there is no speaking about it.
M: It is. It cannot be denied. It is deep and dark, mystery beyond mystery. But
it is, while all else
merely happens.
Q: Is it the Unknown?
M: It is beyond both, the known and the unknown. But I would rather call it the
known, than the
unknown. For whenever something is known, it is the real that is known.
Q: Is silence an attribute of the real?
M: This too is of the mind. All states and conditions are of the mind.
Q: What is the place of samadhi?
M: Not making use of one's consciousness is samadhi. You just leave your mind al
one. You want
nothing, neither-from your body nor from your mind.
14. Appearances and the Reality
Questioner: Repeatedly you have been saying that events are causeless, a thing j
ust happens and
no cause can be assigned to it. Surely everything has a cause, or several causes
. How am I to
understand the causelessness of things?
Maharaj: From the highest point of view the world has no cause.
Q: But what is your own experience?
M: Everything is uncaused. The world has no cause.
Q: I am not enquiring about the causes that led to the creation of the world. Wh
o has seen the
creation of the world? It may even be without a beginning, always existing. But
I am not talking of
the world. I take the world to exist -- somehow. It contains so many things. Sur
ely, each must have
a cause, or several causes.
M: Once you create for yourself a world in time and space, governed by causality
, you are bound to
search for and find causes for everything. You put the question and impose an an
swer.
Q: My question is very simple: I see all kinds of things and I understand that e
ach must have a
cause, or a number of causes. You say they are uncaused -- from your point of vi
ew. But, to you
nothing has being and, therefore, the question of causation does not arise. Yet
you seem to admit
the existence of things, but deny them causation. This is what I cannot grasp. O
nce you accept the
existence of things, why reject their causes?
M: I see only consciousness, and know everything to be but consciousness, as you
know the
picture on the cinema screen to be but light.
Q: Still, the movements of light have a cause.
M: The light does not move at all. You know very well that the movement is illus
ory, a sequence of
interceptions and colourings
in the film. What moves is the film -- which is the mind.
Q: This does not make the picture causeless. The film is there, and the actors w
ith the technicians,
the director, the producer, the various manufacturers. The world is governed by
causality.
Everything is inter-linked.
M: Of course, everything is inter-linked. And therefore everything has numberles
s causes. The
entire universe contributes to the least thing. A thing is as it is, because the
world is as it is. You
see, you deal in gold ornaments and I -- in gold. Between the different ornament
s there is no causal
relation. When you re-melt an ornament to make another, there is no causal relat
ion between the
two. The common factor is the gold. But you cannot say gold is the cause. It can
not be called a
cause, for it causes nothing by itself. It is reflected in the mind as 'I am', a
s the ornament's particular
name and shape. Yet all is only gold. In the same way reality makes everything p
ossible and yet
nothing that makes a thing what it is, its name and form, comes from reality.
But why worry so much about causation? What do causes matter, when things themse
lves are
transient? Let come what comes and let go what goes -- why catch hold of things
and enquire about
their causes?
Q: From the relative point of view, everything must have a cause.
M: Of what use is the relative view to you? You are able to look from the absolu
te point of view --
why go back to the relative? Are you afraid of the absolute?
Q: I am afraid. I am afraid of falling asleep over my so-called absolute certain
ties. For living a life
decently absolutes don't help. When you need a shirt, you buy cloth, call a tail
or and so on.
M: All this talk shows ignorance.
Q: And what is the knower's view?
M: There is only light and the light is all. Everything else is but a picture ma
de of light. The picture
is in the light and the light is in the picture. Life and death, self and not-se
lf --- abandon all these
ideas. They are of no use to you.
Q: From what point of view you deny causation? From the relative -- the universe
is the cause of
everything. From the absolute -- there is no thing at all.
M: From which state are you asking?
Q: From the daily waking state, in which alone all these discussions take place.
M: In the waking state all these problems arise, for such is its nature. But, yo
u are not always in
that state. What good can you do in a state into which you fall and from which y
ou emerge,
helplessly. In what way does it help you to know that things are causally relate
d -- as they may
appear to be in your waking state?
Q: The world and the waking state emerge and subside together.
M: When the mind is still, absolutely silent, the waking state is no more.
Q: Words like God, universe, the total, absolute, supreme are just noises in the
air, because no
action can be taken on them.
M: You are bringing up questions which you alone can answer.
Q: Don't brush me off like this! You are so quick to speak for the totality, the
universe and such
imaginary things! They cannot come and forbid you to talk on their behalf. I hat
e those irresponsible
generalizations! And you are so prone to personalise them. Without causality the
re will be no order;
nor purposeful action will be possible.
M: Do you want to know all the causes of each event? Is it possible?
Q: I know it is not possible! All I want to know is if there are causes for ever
ything and the causes
can be influenced, thereby affecting the events?
M: To influence events, you need not know the causes. What a roundabout way of d
oing things!
Are you not the source and the end of every event? Control it at the source itse
lf.
Q: Every morning I pick up the newspaper and read with dismay that the world's s
orrows --
poverty, hatred and wars -- continue unabated. My questions are concerning the f
act of sorrow, the
cause, the remedy. Don't brush me off saying that it is Buddhism! Don't label me
. Your insistence
on causelessness removes all hope of the world ever changing.
M: You are confused, because you believe that you are in the world, not the worl
d in you. Who
came first -- you or your parents? You imagine that you were born at a certain t
ime and place, that
you have a father and a mother, a body and a name. This is your sin and your cal
amity! Surely you
can change your world if you work at it. By all means, work. Who stops you? I ha
ve never
discouraged you. Causes or no causes, you have made this world and you can chang
e it.
Q: A causeless world is entirely beyond my control.
M: On the contrary, a world of which you are the only source and ground is fully
within your power
to change. What is created can be always dissolved and re-created. All will happ
en as you want it,
provided you really want it.
Q: All I want to know is how to deal with the world's sorrows.
M: You have created them out of your own desires and fears, you deal with them.
All is due to your
having forgotten your own being. Having given reality to the picture on the scre
en, you love its
people and suffer for them and seek to save them. It is just not so. You must be
gin with yourself.
There is no other way. Work, of course. There is no harm in working.
Q: Your universe seems to contain every possible experience. The individual trac
es a line through
it and experiences pleasant and unpleasant states. This gives rise to questionin
g and seeking,
which broaden the outlook and enable the individual to go beyond his narrow and
self-created world
limited and self-centred. This personal world can be changed -- in time. The uni
verse is timeless
and perfect.
M: To take appearance for reality is a grievous sin and the cause of all calamit
ies. You are the all-
pervading, eternal and infinitely creative awareness -- consciousness. All else
is local and
temporary. Don't forget what you are. In the meantime work to your heart's conte
nt. Work and
knowledge should go hand in hand.
Q: My own feeling is that my spiritual development is not in my hands. Making on
e's own plans
and carrying them out leads no where. I just run in circles round myself. When G
od considers the
fruit to be ripe, He will pluck it and eat it. Whichever fruit seems green to Hi
m will remain on the
world's tree for another day.
M: You think God knows you? Even the world He does not know.
Q: Yours is a different God. Mine is different. Mine is merciful. He suffers alo
ng with us.
M: You pray to save one, while thousands die. And if all stop dying, there will
be no space on earth
Q: I am not afraid of death. My concern is with sorrow and suffering. My God is
a simple God and
rather helpless. He has no power to compel us to be wise. He can only stand and
wait.
M: If you and your God are both helpless, does it not imply that the world is ac
cidental? And if it is.
the only thing you can do is to go beyond it.
15. The Jnani
Questioner: Without God's power nothing can be done. Even you would not be sitti
ng here and
talking to us without Him.
Maharaj: All is His doing, no doubt. What is it to me, since I want nothing? Wha
t can God give me,
or take away from me? What is mine is mine and was mine even when God was not. O
f course, it is
a very tiny little thing, a speck -- the sense 'I am', the fact of being. This i
s my own place, nobody
gave it to me. The earth is mine; what grows on it is God's.
Q: Did God take the earth on rent from you?
M: God is my devotee and did all this for me.
Q: Is there no God apart from you?
M: How can there be? 'I am' is the root, God is the tree. Whom am I to worship,
and what for?
Q: Are you the devotee or the object of devotion?
M: I am neither, I am devotion itself.
Q: There is not enough devotion in the world.
M: You are always after the improvement of the world. Do you really believe that
the world is
waiting for you to be saved?
Q: I just do not know how much I can do for the world. All I can do, is to try.
Is there anything else
you would like me to do?
M: Without you is there a world? You know all about the world, but about yoursel
f you know
nothing. You yourself are the tools of your work, you have no other tools. Why d
on't you take care of
the tools before you think of the work?
Q: I can wait, while the world cannot.
M: By not enquiring you keep the world waiting.
Q: Waiting for what?
M: For somebody who can save it.
Q: God runs the world, God will save it.
M: That's what you say! Did God come and tell you that the world is His creation
and concern and
not yours?
Q: Why should it be my sole concern?
M: Consider. The world in which you live, who else knows about it?
Q: You know. Everybody knows.
M: Did anybody come from outside of your world to tell you? Myself and everybody
else appear
and disappear in your world. We are all at your mercy.
Q: It cannot be so bad! I exist in your world as you exist in mine.
M: You have no evidence of my world. You are completely wrapped up in the world
of your own
making.
Q: I see. Completely, but -- hopelessly?
M: Within the prison of your world appears a man who tells you that the world of
painful
contradictions, which you have created, is neither continuous nor permanent and
is based on a
misapprehension. He pleads with you to get out of it, by the same way by which y
ou got into it. You
got into it by forgetting what you are and you will get out of it by knowing you
rself as you are.
Q: In what way does it affect the world?
M: When you are free of the world, you can do something about it. As long as you
are a prisoner of
it, you are helpless to change it. On the contrary, whatever you do will aggrava
te the situation.
Q: Righteousness will set me free.
M: Righteousness will undoubtedly make you and your world a comfortable, even ha
ppy place. But
what is the use? There is no reality in it. It cannot last.
Q: God will help.
M: To help you God must know your existence. But you and your world are dream st
ates. In dream
you may suffer agonies. None knows them, and none can help you.
Q: So all my questions, my search and study are of no use?
M: These are but the stirrings of a man who is tired of sleeping. They are not t
he causes of
awakening, but its early signs. But, you must not ask idle questions, to which y
ou already know the
answers.
Q: How am I to get a true answer?
M: By asking a true question -- non-verbally, but by daring to live according to
your lights. A man
willing to die for truth will get it.
Q: Another question. There is the person. There is the knower of the person. The
re is the witness.
Are the knower and the witness the same, or are they separate states?
M: The knower and the witness are two or one? When the knower is seen as separat
e from the
known, the witness stands alone. When the known and the knower are seen as one,
the witness
becomes one with them.
Q: Who is the jnani? The witness or the supreme?
M: The jnani is the supreme and also the witness. He is both being and awareness
. In relation to
consciousness he is awareness. In relation to the universe he is pure being.
Q: And what about the person? What comes first, the person or the knower.
M: The person is a very small thing. Actually it is a composite, it cannot be sa
id to exist by itself.
Unperceived, it is just not there. It is but the shadow of the mind, the sum tot
al of memories. Pure
being is reflected in the mirror of the mind, as knowing. What is known takes th
e shape of a person,
based on memory and habit. It is but a shadow, or a projection of the knower ont
o the screen of the
mind.
Q: The mirror is there, the reflection is there. But where is the sun?
M: The supreme is the sun.
Q: It must be conscious.
M: It is neither conscious nor unconscious. Don't think of it in terms of consci
ousness or
unconsciousness. It is the life, which contains both and is beyond both.
Q: Life is so intelligent. How can it be unconscious?
M: You talk of the unconscious when there is a lapse in memory. In reality there
is only
consciousness. All life is conscious, all consciousness -- alive.
Q: Even stones?
M: Even stones are conscious and alive.
Q: The worry with me is that I am prone to denying existence to what I cannot im
agine.
M: You would be wiser to deny the existence of what you imagine. It is the imagi
ned that is unreal.
Q: Is all imaginable unreal?
M: Imagination based on memories is unreal. The future is not entirely unreal.
Q: Which part of the future is real and which is not?
M: The unexpected and unpredictable is real.
16. Desirelessness, the Highest Bliss
Questioner: I have met many realised people, but never a liberated man. Have you
come across a
liberated man, or does liberation mean, among other things, also abandoning the
body?
Maharaj: What do you mean by realisation and liberation?
Q: By realisation I mean a wonderful experience of peace, goodness and beauty, w
hen the world
makes sense and there is an all-pervading unity of both substance and essence. W
hile such
experience does not last, it cannot be forgotten. It shines in the mind, both as
memory and longing.
I know what I am talking about, for I have had such experiences.
By liberation I mean to be permanently in that wonderful state. What I am asking
is whether
liberation is compatible with the survival of the body.
M: What is wrong with the body?
Q: The body is so weak and short-lived. It creates needs and cravings. It limits
one grievously.
M: So what? Let the physical expressions be limited. But liberation is of the se
lf from its false and
self-imposed ideas; it is not contained in some particular experience, however g
lorious.
Q: Does it last for ever?
M: All experience is time bound. Whatever has a beginning must have an end.
Q: So liberation, in my sense of the word, does not exist?
M: On the contrary, one is always free. You are, both conscious and free to be c
onscious. Nobody
can take this away from you. Do you ever know yourself non-existing, or unconsci
ous?
Q: I may not remember, but that does not disprove my being occasionally unconsci
ous.
M: Why not turn away from the experience to the experiencer and realise the full
import of the only
true statement you can make: 'I am'?
Q: How is it done?
M: There is no 'how' here. Just keep in mind the feeling 'I am', merge in it, ti
ll your mind and feeling
become one. By repeated attempts you will stumble on the right balance of attent
ion and affection
and your mind will be firmly established in the thought-feeling 'I am'. Whatever
you think, say, or do,
this sense of immutable and affectionate being remains as the ever-present backg
round of the mind.
Q: And you call it liberation?
M: I call it normal. What is wrong with being, knowing and acting effortlessly a
nd happily? Why
consider it so unusual as to expect the immediate destruction of the body? What
is wrong with the
body that it should die? Correct your attitude to your body and leave it alone.
Don't pamper, don't
torture. Just keep it going, most of the time below the threshold of conscious a
ttention.
Q: The memory of my wonderful experiences haunts me. I want them back.
M: Because you want them back, you cannot have them. The state of craving for an
ything blocks
all deeper experience. Nothing of value can happen to a mind which knows exactly
what it wants.
For nothing the mind can visualise and want is of much value.
Q: Then what is worth wanting?
M: Want the best. The highest happiness, the greatest freedom. Desirelessness is
the highest bliss.
Q: Freedom from desire is not the freedom I want. I want the freedom to fulfil m
y longings.
M: You are free to fulfil your longings. As a matter of fact, you are doing noth
ing else.
Q: I try, but there are obstacles which leave me frustrated.
M: Overcome them.
Q: I cannot, I am too weak.
M: What makes you weak? What is weakness? Others fulfil their desires, why don't
you?
Q: I must be lacking energy.
M: What happened to your energy? Where did it go? Did you not scatter it over so
many
contradictory desires and pursuits? You don't have an infinite supply of energy.
Q: Why not?
M: Your aims are small and low. They do not call for more. Only God's energy is
infinite -- because
He wants nothing for Himself. Be like Him and all your desires will be fulfilled
. The higher your aims
and vaster your desires, the more energy you will have for their fulfilment. Des
ire the good of all and
the universe will work with you. But if you want your own pleasure, you must ear
n it the hard way.
Before desiring, deserve.
Q: I am engaged in the study of philosophy, sociology and education. I think mor
e mental
development is needed before I can dream of self-realisation. Am I on the right
track?
M: To earn a livelihood some specialised knowledge is needed. General knowledge
develops the
mind, no doubt. But if you are going to spend your life in amassing knowledge, y
ou build a wall
round yourself. To go beyond the mind, a wellfurnished
mind is not needed.
Q: Then what is needed?
M: Distrust your mind, and go beyond.
Q: What shall I find beyond the mind?
M: The direct experience of being, knowing and loving.
Q: How does one go beyond the mind?
M: There are many starting points -- they all lead to the same goal. You may beg
in with selfless
work, abandoning the fruits of action; you may then give up thinking and end in
giving up all desires.
Here, giving up (tyaga) is the operational factor. Or, you may not bother about
any thing you want,
or think, or do and just stay put in the thought and feeling 'I am', focussing '
I am' firmly in your mind.
All kinds of experience may come to you -- remain unmoved in the knowledge that
all perceivable is
transient, and only the 'I am' endures.
Q: I cannot give all my life to such practices. I have my duties to attend to.
M: By all means attend to your duties. Action, in which you are not emotionally
involved and which
is beneficial and does not cause suffering will not bind you. You may be engaged
in several
directions and work with enormous zest, yet remain inwardly free and quiet, with
a mirror-like mind,
which reflects all, without being affected.
Q: Is such a state realisable?
M: I would not talk about it, if it were not. Why should I engage in fancies?
Q: Everybody quotes scriptures.
M: Those who know only scriptures know nothing. To know is to be. I know what I
am talking
about; it is not from reading, or hearsay.
Q: I am studying Sanskrit under a professor, but really I am only reading script
ures. I am in search
of self-realisation and I came to get the needed guidance. Kindly tell me what a
m I to do?
M: Since you have read the scriptures, why do you ask me?
Q: The scriptures show the general directions but the individual needs personal
instructions.
M: Your own self is your ultimate teacher (sadguru). The outer teacher (Guru) is
merely a
milestone. It is only your inner teacher, that will walk with you to the goal, f
or he is the goal.
Q: The inner teacher is not easily reached.
M: Since he is in you and with you, the difficulty cannot be serious. Look withi
n, and you will find
him.
Q: When I look within, I find sensations and perceptions, thoughts and feelings,
desires and fears,
memories and expectations. I am immersed in this cloud and see nothing else.
M: That which sees all this, and the nothing too, is the inner teacher. He alone
is, all else only
appears to be. He is your own self (swarupa), your hope and assurance of freedom
; find him and
cling to him and you will be saved and safe.
Q: I do believe you, but when it comes to the actual finding of this inner self,
I find it escapes me.
M: The idea 'it escapes me', where does it arise?
Q: In the mind.
M: And who knows the mind.
Q: The witness of the mind knows the mind.
M: Did anybody come to you and say: 'I am the witness of your mind'?
Q: Of course not. He would have been just another idea in the mind.
M: Then who is the witness?
Q: I am.
M: So, you know the witness because you are the witness. You need not see the wi
tness in front of
you. Here again, to be is to know.
Q: Yes, I see that I am the witness, the awareness itself. But in which way does
it profit me?
M: What a question! What kind of profit do you expect? To know what you are, is
it not good
enough?
Q: What are the uses of self-knowledge?
M: It helps you to understand what you are not and keeps you free from false ide
as, desires and
actions.
Q: If I am the witness only, what do right and wrong matter?
M: What helps you to know yourself is right. What prevents, is wrong. To know on
e's real self is
bliss, to forget -- is sorrow.
Q: Is the witness-consciousness the real Self?
M: It is the reflection of the real in the mind (buddhi). The real is beyond. Th
e witness is the door
through which you pass beyond.
Q: What is the purpose of meditation?
M: Seeing the false as the false, is meditation. This must go on all the time.
Q: We are told to meditate regularly.
M: Deliberate daily exercise in discrimination between the true and the false an
d renunciation of
the false is meditation. There are many kinds of meditation to begin with, but t
hey all merge finally
into one.
Q: Please tell me which road to self-realisation is the shortest.
M: No way is short or long, but some people are more in earnest and some are les
s. I can tell you
about myself. I was a simple man, but I trusted my Guru. What he told me to do,
I did. He told me to
concentrate on 'I am' -- I did. He told me that I am beyond all perceivables and
conceivables -- I
believed. I gave him my heart and soul, my entire attention and the whole of my
spare time (I had to
work to keep my family alive). As a result of faith and earnest application, I r
ealised my self
(swarupa) within three years.
You may choose any way that suits you; your earnestness will determine the rate
of progress.
Q: No hint for me?
M: Establish yourself firmly in the awareness of 'I am'. This is the beginning a
nd also the end of all
endeavour.
17. The Ever-Present
Questioner: The highest powers of the mind are understanding, intelligence and i
nsight. Man has
three bodies -- the physical, the mental and the causal (prana, mana, karana). T
he physical reflects
his being; the mental -- his knowing and the causal -- his joyous creativity. Of
course, these are all
forms in consciousness. But they appear to be separate, with qualities of their
own. Intelligence
(buddhi) is the reflection in the mind of the power to know (chit). It is what m
akes the mind
knowledgeable. The brighter the intelligence, the wider, deeper and truer the kn
owledge. To know
things, to know people and to know oneself are all functions of intelligence: th
e last is the most
important and contains the former two. Misunderstanding oneself and the world le
ads to false ideas
and desires, which again lead to bondage. Right understanding of oneself is nece
ssary for freedom
from the bondage of illusion. I understand all this in theory, but when it comes
to practice, I find that
I fail hopelessly in my responses to situations and people and by my inappropria
te reactions I
merely add to my bondage. Life is too quick for my dull and slow mind. I do unde
rstand but too late,
when the old mistakes have been already repeated.
Maharaj: What then is your problem?
Q: I need a response to life, not only intelligent, but also very quick. It cann
ot be quick unless it is
perfectly spontaneous. How can I achieve such spontaneity?
M: The mirror can do nothing to attract the sun. It can only keep bright. As soo
n as the mind is
ready, the sun shines in it.
Q: The light is of the Self, or of the mind?
M: Both. It is uncaused and unvarying by itself and coloured by the mind, as it
moves and changes.
It is very much like a cinema. The light is not in the film, but the film colour
s the light and makes it
appear to move by intercepting it.
Q: Are you now in the perfect state?
M: Perfection is a state of the mind, when it is pure. I am beyond the mind, wha
tever its state, pure
or impure. Awareness is my nature; ultimately I am beyond being and non-being.
Q: Will meditation help me to reach your state?
M: Meditation will help you to find your bonds, loosen them, untie them and cast
your moorings.
When you are no longer attached to anything, you have done your share. The rest
will be done for
you.
Q: By whom?
M: By the same power that brought you so far, that prompted your heart to desire
truth and your
mind to seek it. It is the same power that keeps you alive. You may call it Life
or the Supreme.
Q: The same power kills me in due course.
M: Were you not present at your birth? Will you not be present at your death? Fi
nd him who is
always present and your problem of spontaneous and perfect response will be solv
ed.
Q: realisation of the eternal and an effortless and adequate response to the eve
r-changing
temporary event are two different and separate questions. You seem to roll them
into one. What
makes you do so?
M: To realise the Eternal is to become the Eternal, the whole, the universe, wit
h all it contains.
Every event is the effect and the expression of the whole and is in fundamental
harmony with the
whole. All response from the whole must be right, effortless and instantaneous.
It cannot be otherwise, if it is right. Delayed response is wrong response. Thou
ght, feeling and
action must be one and simultaneous with the situation that calls for them.
Q: How does it come?
M: I told you already. Find him who was present at your birth and will witness y
our death.
Q: My father and mother?
M: Yes, your father-mother, the source from which you came. To solve a problem y
ou must trace it
to its source. Only in the dissolution of the problem in the universal solvents
of enquiry and
dispassion, can its right solution be found.
18. To Know What you Are, Find What you Are Not
Questioner: Your way of describing the universe as consisting of matter, mind an
d spirit is one of
the many. There are other patterns to which the universe is expected to conform,
and one is at a
loss to know which pattern is true and which is not. One ends in suspecting that
all patterns are only
verbal and that no pattern can contain reality. According to you, reality consis
ts of three expanses:
The expanse of matter-energy (mahadakash), the expanse of consciousness (chidaka
sh) and of
pure spirit (paramakash). The first is something that has both movement and iner
tia. That we
perceive. We also know that we perceive -- we are conscious and also aware of be
ing conscious.
Thus, we have two: matter-energy and consciousness. Matter seems to be in space
while energy is
always in time, being connected with change and measured by the rate of change.
Consciousness
seems to be somehow here and now, in a single point of time and space. But you s
eem to suggest
that consciousness too is universal -- which makes it timeless, spaceless and im
personal. I can
somehow understand that there is no contradiction between the timeless and space
less and the
here and now, but impersonal consciousness I cannot fathom. To me consciousness
is always
focalised, centred, individualised, a person. You seem to say that there can be
perceiving without a
perceiver, knowing without a knower, loving without a lover, acting without an a
ctor. I feel that the
trinity of knowing, knower and known can be seen in every movement of life. Cons
ciousness implies
a conscious being, an object of consciousness and the fact of being conscious. T
hat which is
conscious I call a person. A person lives in the world, is a part of it, affects
it and is affected by it.
Maharaj: Why don't you enquire how real are the world and the person?
Q: Oh, no! I need not enquire. Enough if the person is not less real than the wo
rld in which the
person exists.
M: Then what is the question?
Q: Are persons real, and universals conceptual, or are universals real and perso
ns imaginary?
M: Neither are real.
Q: Surely, I am real enough to merit your reply and I am a person.
M: Not when asleep.
Q: Submergence is not absence. Even though asleep, I am.
M: To be a person you must be self-conscious. Are you so always?
Q: Not when I sleep, of course, nor when I am in a swoon, or drugged.
M: During your waking hours are you continually self-conscious?
Q: No, Sometimes I am absent-minded, or just absorbed.
M: Are you a person during the gaps in self-consciousness?
Q: Of course I am the same person throughout. I remember myself as I was yesterd
ay and yester
year -- definitely, I am the same person.
M: So, to be a person, you need memory?
Q: Of course.
M: And without memory, what are you?
Q: Incomplete memory entails incomplete personality. Without memory I cannot exi
st as a person.
M: Surely you can exist without memory. You do so -- in sleep.
Q: Only in the sense of remaining alive. Not as a person.
M: Since you admit that as a person you have only intermittent existence, can yo
u tell me what are
you in the intervals in between experiencing yourself as a person?
Q: I am, but not as a person. Since I am not conscious of myself in the interval
s, I can only say
that I exist, but not as a person.
M: Shall we call it impersonal existence?
Q: I would call it rather unconscious existence; I am, but I do not know that I
am.
M: You have said just now: 'I am, but I do not know that I am'. Could you possib
ly say it about your
being in an unconscious state?
Q: No, I could not.
M: You can only describe it in the past tense: 'I did not know. I was unconsciou
s', in the sense of
not remembering.
Q: Having been unconscious, how could I remember and what?
M: Were you really unconscious, or you just do not remember?
Q: How am I to make out?
M: Consider. Do you remember every second of yesterday?
Q: Of course, not.
M: Were you then unconscious?
Q: Of course, not.
M: So, you are conscious and yet you do not remember?
Q: Yes.
M: Maybe you were conscious in sleep and just do not remember.
Q: No, I was not conscious. I was asleep. I did not behave like a conscious pers
on.
M: Again, how do you know?
Q: I was told so by those who saw me asleep.
M: All they can testify to is that they saw you lying quietly with closed eyes a
nd breathing regularly.
They could not make out whether you were conscious or not. Your only proof is yo
ur own memory.
A very uncertain proof it is!
Q: Yes, I admit that on my own terms I am a person only during my waking hours.
What I am in
between, I do not know.
M: At least you know that you do not know! Since you pretend not to be conscious
in the intervals
between the waking hours, leave the intervals alone. Let us consider the waking
hours only.
Q: I am the same person in my dreams.
M: Agreed. Let us consider them together waking and dreaming. The difference is
merely in
continuity. Were your dreams consistently continuous, bringing back night after
night the same
surroundings and the same people, you would be at a loss to know which is the wa
king and which
is the dream. Henceforward, when we talk of the waking state, we shall include t
he dream state too.
Q: Agreed. I am a person in a conscious relation with a world.
M: Are the world and the conscious relation with it essential to your being a pe
rson?
Q: Even immersed in a cave, I remain a person.
M: It implies a body and a cave. And a world in which they can exist.
Q: Yes. I can see. The world and the consciousness of the world are essential to
my existence as
a person.
M: This makes the person a part and parcel of the world, or vice versa. The two
are one.
Q: Consciousness stands alone. The person and the world appear in consciousness.
M: You said: appear. Could you add: disappear?
Q: No, I cannot. I can only be aware of my and my world's appearance. As a perso
n, I cannot say:
'the world is not'. Without a world I would not be there to say it. Because ther
e is a world, I am there
to say: 'there is a world'.
M: Maybe it is the other way round. Because of you, there is a world.
Q: To me such statement appears meaningless.
M: Its meaninglessness may disappear on investigation.
Q: Where do we begin?
M: All I know is that whatever depends, is not real. The real is truly independe
nt. Since the
existence of the person depends on the existence of the world and it is circumsc
ribed and defined
by the world, it cannot be real.
Q: It cannot be a dream, surely.
M: Even a dream has existence, when it is cognised and enjoyed, or endured. What
ever you think
and feel has being. But it may not be what you take it to be. What you think to
be a person may be
something quite different.
Q: I am what I know myself to be.
M: You cannot possibly say that you are what you think yourself to be! Your idea
s about yourself
change from day to day and from moment to moment. Your self-image is the most ch
angeful thing
you have. It is utterly vulnerable, at the mercy of a passer by. A bereavement,
the loss of a job, an
insult, and your image of yourself, which you call your person, changes deeply.
To know what you
are you must first investigate and know what you are not. And to know what you a
re not you must
watch yourself carefully, rejecting all that does not necessarily go with the ba
sic fact: 'I am'. The
ideas: I am born at a given place, at a given time, from my parents and now I am
so-and-so, living
at, married to, father of, employed by, and so on, are not inherent in the sense
'I am'. Our usual
attitude is of 'I am this'. Separate consistently and perseveringly the 'I am' f
rom 'this' or 'that', and try
to feel what it means to be, just to be, without being 'this' or 'that'. All our
habits go against it and the
task of fighting them is long and hard sometimes, but clear understanding helps
a lot. The clearer
you understand that on the level of the mind you can be described in negative te
rms only, the
quicker you will come to the end of your search and realise your limitless being
.
19. Reality lies in Objectivity
Questioner: I am a painter and I earn by painting pictures. Has it any value fro
m the spiritual point
of view?
Maharaj: When you paint what do you think about?
Q: When I paint, there is only the painting and myself.
M: What are you doing there?
Q: I paint.
M: No, you don't. You see the painting going on. You are watching only, all else
happens.
Q: The picture is painting itself? Or, is there some deeper 'me', or some god wh
o is painting?
M: Consciousness itself is the greatest painter. The entire world is a Picture.
Q: Who painted the picture of the world?
M: The painter is in the Picture.
Q: The picture is in the mind of the painter and the painter is in the picture,
which is in the mind of
the painter who is in the picture! Is not this infinity of states and dimensions
absurd? The moment
we talk of picture in the mind, which itself is in the picture, we come to an en
dless succession of
witnesses, the higher witness witnessing the lower. It is like standing between
two mirrors and
wondering at the crowd!
M: Quite right, you alone and the double mirror are there. Between the two, your
forms and names
are numberless.
Q: How do you look at the world?
M: I see a painter painting a picture. The picture I call the world, the painter
I call God. I am neither.
I do not create, nor am I created. I contain all, nothing contains me.
Q: When I see a tree, a face, a sunset, the picture is perfect. When I close my
eyes, the image in
my mind is faint and hazy. If it is my mind that projects the picture, why need
I open my eyes to see
a lovely flower and with eyes closed I see it vaguely?
M: It is because your outer eyes are better than your inner eyes. Your mind is a
ll turned outward.
As you learn to watch your mental world, you will find it even more colourful an
d perfect than what
the body can provide. Of course, you will need some training. But why argue? You
imagine that the
picture must come from the painter who actually painted it. All the time you loo
k for origins and
causes. Causality is in the mind, only; memory gives the illusion of continuity
and repetitiveness
creates the idea of causality. When things repeatedly happen together, we tend t
o see a causal link
between them. It creates a mental habit, but a habit is not a necessity.
Q: You have just said that the world is made by God.
M: Remember that language is an instrument of the mind; It is made by the mind,
for the mind.
Once you admit a cause, then God is the ultimate cause and the world the effect.
They are different,
but not separate.
Q: People talk of seeing God.
M: When you see the world you see God. There is no seeing God, apart from the wo
rld. Beyond
the world to see God is to be God. The light by which you see the world, which i
s God is the tiny
little spark: 'I am', apparently so small, yet the first and the last in every a
ct of knowing and loving.
Q: Must I see the world to see God?
M: How else? No world, no God.
Q: What remains?
M: You remain as pure being.
Q: And what becomes of the world and of God?
M: Pure being (avyakta).
Q: Is it the same as the Great Expanse (paramakash)?
M: You may call it so. Words do not matter, for they do not reach it. They turn
back in utter
negation.
Q: How can I see the world as God? What does it mean to see the world as God?
M: It is like entering a dark room. You see nothing -- you may touch, but you do
not see -- no
colours, no outlines. The window opens and the room is flooded with light. Colou
rs and shapes
come into being. The window is the giver of light, but not the source of it. The
sun is the source.
Similarly, matter is like the dark room; consciousness -- the window -- flooding
matter with
sensations and perceptions, and the Supreme is the sun the source both of matter
and of light. The
window may be closed, or open, the sun shines all the time. It makes all the dif
ference to the room,
but none to the sun. Yet all this is secondary to the tiny little thing which is
the 'I am'. Without the 'I
am' there is nothing. All knowledge is about the 'I am'. False ideas about this
'I am' lead to bondage,
right knowledge leads to freedom and happiness.
Q: Is 'I am' and 'there is' the same?
M: 'I am' denotes the inner, 'there is' -- the outer. Both are based on the sens
e of being.
Q: Is it the same as the experience of existence?
M: To exist means to be something, a thing, a feeling, a thought, an idea. All e
xistence is particular.
Only being is universal, in the sense that every being is compatible with every
other being.
Existences clash, being -- never. Existence means becoming, change, birth and de
ath and birth
again, while in being there is silent peace.
Q: If I create the world, why have I made it bad?
M: Everyone lives in his own world. Not all the worlds are equally good or bad.
Q: What determines the difference?
M: The mind that projects the world, colours it its own way. When you meet a man
, he is a
stranger. When you marry him, he becomes your own self. When you quarrel, he bec
omes your
enemy. It is your mind's attitude that determines what he is to you.
Q: I can see that my world is subjective. Does it make it also illusory?
M: It is illusory as long as it is subjective and to that extent only. Reality l
ies in objectivity.
Q: What does objectivity mean? You said the world is subjective and now you talk
of objectivity. Is
not everything subjective?
M: Everything is subjective, but the real is objective.
Q: In what sense?
M: It does not depend on memories and expectations, desires and fears, likes and
dislikes. All is
seen as it is.
Q: Is it what you call the fourth state (turiya)?
M: Call it as you like. It is solid, steady, changeless, beginningless and endle
ss, ever new, ever
fresh.
Q: How is it reached?
M: Desirelessness and fearlessness will take you there.
20. The Supreme is Beyond All
Questioner: You say, reality is one. Oneness, unity, is the attribute of the per
son. Is then reality a
person, with the universe as its body?
Maharaj: Whatever you may say will be both true and false. Words do not reach be
yond the mind.
Q: I am just trying to understand. You are telling us of the Person, the Self an
d the Supreme.
(vyakti, vyakta, avyakta). The light of Pure Awareness (pragna), focussed as 'I
am' in the Self
(jivatma), as consciousness (chetana) illumines the mind (antahkarana) and as li
fe (prana) vitalises
the body (deha). All this is fine as far as the words go. But when it comes to d
istinguishing in myself
the person from the Self and the Self from the Supreme, I get mixed up.
M: The person is never the subject. You can see a person, but you are not the pe
rson. You are
always the Supreme which appears at a given point of time and space as the witne
ss, a bridge
between the pure awareness of the Supreme and the manifold consciousness of the
person.
Q: When I look at myself, I find I am several persons fighting among themselves
for the use of the
body.
M: They correspond to the various tendencies (samskara) of the mind.
Q: Can I make peace between them?
M: How can you? They are so contradictory! See them as they are -- mere habits o
f thoughts and
feelings, bundles of memories and urges.
Q: Yet they all say 'I am'.
M: It is only because you identify yourself with them. Once you realise that wha
tever appears
before you cannot be yourself, and cannot say 'I am', you are free of all your '
persons' and their
demands. The sense 'I am' is your own. You cannot part with it, but you can impa
rt it to anything, as
in saying: I am young. I am rich etc. But such self-identifications are patently
false and the cause of
bondage.
Q: I can now understand that I am not the person, but that which, when reflected
in the person,
gives it a sense of being. Now, about the Supreme? In what way do I know myself
as the Supreme?
M: The source of consciousness cannot be an object in consciousness. To know the
source is to
be the source. When you realise that you are not the person, but the pure and ca
lm witness, and
that fearless awareness is your very being, you are the being. It is the source,
the Inexhaustible
Possibility.
Q: Are there many sources or one for all?
M: It depends how you look at it, from which end. The objects in the world are m
any, but the eye
that sees them is one. The higher always appears as one to the lower and the low
er as many to the
higher.
Q: Shapes and names are all of one and the same God?
M: Again, it all depends on how you look at it. On the verbal level everything i
s relative. Absolutes
should be experienced, not discussed.
Q: How is the Absolute experienced?
M: It is not an object to be recognised and stored up in memory. It is in the pr
esent and in feeling
rather. It has more to do with the 'how' than with the 'what'. It is in the qual
ity, in the value; being the
source of everything, it is in everything.
Q: If it is the source, why and how does it manifest itself?
M: It gives birth to consciousness. All else is in consciousness.
Q: Why are there so many centres of consciousness?
M: The objective universe (mahadakash) is in constant movement, projecting and d
issolving
innumerable forms. Whenever a form is infused with life (prana), consciousness (
chetana) appears
by reflection of awareness in matter.
Q: How is the Supreme affected?
M: What can affect it and how? The source is not affected by the vagaries of the
river nor is the
metal -- by the shape of the jewellery. Is the light affected by the picture on
the screen? The
Supreme makes everything possible, that is all.
Q: How is it that some things do happen and some don't?
M: Seeking out causes is a pastime of the mind. There is no duality of cause and
effect. Everything
is its own cause.
Q: No purposeful action is then possible?
M: All I say is that consciousness contains all. In consciousness all is possibl
e. You can have
causes if you want them, in your world. Another may be content with a single cau
se -- God's will.
The root cause is one: the sense 'I am'.
Q: What is the link between the Self (Vyakta) and the Supreme (Avyakta)?
M: From the self's point of view the world is the known, the Supreme -- the Unkn
own. The
Unknown gives birth to the known, yet remains Unknown. The known is infinite, bu
t the Unknown is
an infinitude of infinities. Just like a ray of light is never seen unless inter
cepted by the specs of
dust, so does the Supreme make everything known, itself remaining unknown.
Q: Does it mean that the Unknown is inaccessible?
M: Oh, no. The Supreme is the easiest to reach for it is your very being. It is
enough to stop
thinking and desiring anything, but the Supreme.
Q: And if I desire nothing, not even the Supreme?
M: Then you are as good as dead, or you are the Supreme.
Q: The world is full of desires: Everybody wants something or other. Who is the
desirer? The
person or the self?
M: The self. All desires, holy and unholy, come from the self; they all hang on
the sense 'I am'.
Q: I can understand holy desires (satyakama) emanating from the self. It may be
the expression of
the bliss aspect of the Sadchitananda (Beingness -- Awareness --Happiness) of th
e Self. But why
unholy desires?
M: All desires aim at happiness. Their shape and quality depend on the psyche (a
ntahkarana).
Where inertia (tamas) predominates, we find perversions. With energy (rajas), pa
ssions arise. With
lucidity (sattva) the motive behind the desire is goodwill, compassion, the urge
to make happy
rather than be happy. But the Supreme is beyond all, yet because of its infinite
permeability all
cogent desires can be fulfilled.
Q: Which desires are cogent?
M: Desires that destroy their subjects, or objects, or do not subside on satisfa
ction are self-
contradictory and cannot be fulfilled. Only desires motivated by love, goodwill
and compassion are
beneficial to both the subject and object and can be fully satisfied.
Q: All desires are painful, the holy as well as the unholy.
M: They are not the same and pain is not the same. Passion is painful, compassio
n -- never. The
entire universe strives to fulfil a desire born of compassion.
Q: Does the Supreme know itself? Is the Impersonal conscious?
M: The source of all has all. Whatever flows from it must be there already in se
ed form. And as a
seed is the last of innumerable seeds, and contains the experience and the promi
se of numberless
forests, so does the Unknown contain all that was, or could have been and all th
at shall or would
be. The entire field of becoming is open and accessible; past and future coexist
in the eternal now.
Q: Are you living in the Supreme Unknown?
M: Where else?
Q: What makes you say so?
M: No desire ever arises in my mind.
Q: Are you then unconscious?
M: Of course not! I am fully conscious, but since no desire or fear enters my mi
nd, there is perfect
silence.
Q: Who knows the silence?
M: Silence knows itself. It is the silence of the silent mind, when passions and
desires are silenced.
Q: Do you experience desires occasionally?
M: Desires are just waves in the mind. You know a wave when you see one. A desir
e is just a thing
among many. I feel no urge to satisfy it, no action needs be taken on it. Freedo
m from desire means
this: the compulsion to satisfy is absent.
Q: Why do desires arise at all?
M: Because you imagine that you were born, and that you will die if you do not t
ake care of your
body. Desire for embodied existence is the root-cause of trouble.
Q: Yet, so many jivas get into bodies. Surely it cannot be some error of judgeme
nt. There must be
a purpose. What could it be?
M: To know itself the self must be faced with its opposite -- the not-self. Desi
re leads to experience.
Experience leads to discrimination, detachment, self-knowledge -- liberation. An
d what is liberation
after all? To know that you are beyond birth and death. By forgetting who you ar
e and imagining
yourself a mortal creature, you created so much trouble for yourself that you ha
ve to wake up, like
from a bad dream.
Enquiry also wakes you up. You need not wait for suffering; enquiry into happine
ss is better, for the
mind is in harmony and peace.
Q: Who exactly is the ultimate experiencer -- the Self or the Unknown?
M: The Self, of course.
Q: Then why introduce the notion of the Supreme Unknown?
M: To explain the Self.
Q: But is there anything beyond the Self?
M: Outside the Self there is nothing. All is one and all is contained in 'I am'.
In the waking and
dream states it is the person. In deep sleep and turiya it is the Self. Beyond t
he alert intentness of
turiya lies the great, silent peace of the Supreme. But in fact all is one in es
sence and related in
appearance. In ignorance the seer becomes the seen and in wisdom he is the seein
g.
But why be concerned with the Supreme? Know the knowers and all will be known.
21. Who am I?
Questioner: We are advised to worship reality personified as God, or as the Perf
ect Man. We are
told not to attempt the worship of the Absolute, as it is much too difficult for
a braincentred
consciousness.
Maharaj: Truth is simple and open to all. Why do you complicate? Truth is loving
and lovable. It
includes all, accepts all, purifies all. It is untruth that is difficult and a s
ource of trouble. It always
wants, expects, demands. Being false, it is empty, always in search of confirmat
ion and
reassurance. It is afraid of and avoids enquiry. It identifies itself with any s
upport, however weak
and momentary. Whatever it gets, it loses and asks for more. Therefore put no fa
ith in the
conscious. Nothing you can see, feel, or think is so. Even sin and virtue, merit
and demerit are not
what they appear. Usually the bad and the good are a matter of convention and cu
stom and are
shunned or welcomed, according to how the words are used.
Q: Are there not good desires and bad, high desires and low?
M: All desires are bad, but some are worse than others. Pursue any desire, it wi
ll always give you
trouble.
Q: Even the desire to be free of desire?
M: Why desire at all? Desiring a state of freedom from desire will not set you f
ree. Nothing can set
you free, because you are free. See yourself with desireless clarity, that is al
l.
Q: It takes time to know oneself.
M: How can time help you? Time is a succession of moments; each moment appears o
ut of
nothing and disappears into nothing, never to reappear. How can you build on som
ething so
fleeting?
Q: What is permanent?
M: Look to yourself for the permanent. Dive deep within and find what is real in
you.
Q: How to look for myself?
M: Whatever happens, it happens to you. What you do, the doer is in you. Find th
e subject of all
that you are as a person.
Q: What else can I be?
M: Find out. Even if I tell you that you are the witness, the silent watcher, it
will mean nothing to
you, unless you find the way to your own being.
Q: My question is: How to find the way to one's own being?
M: Give up all questions except one: 'Who am l'? After all, the only fact you ar
e sure of is that you
are. The 'I am' is certain. The 'I am this' is not. Struggle to find out what yo
u are in reality.
Q: I am doing nothing else for the last 60 years.
M: What is wrong with striving? Why look for results? Striving itself is your re
al nature.
Q: Striving is painful.
M: You make it so by seeking results. Strive without seeking, struggle without g
reed.
Q: Why has God made me as I am?
M: Which God are you talking about? What is God? Is he not the very light by whi
ch you ask the
question? 'I am' itself is God. The seeking itself is God. In seeking you discov
er that you are neither
the body nor mind, and the love of the self in you is for the self in all. The t
wo are one. The
consciousness in you and the consciousness in me, apparently two, really one, se
ek unity and that
is love.
Q: How am I to find that love?
M: What do you love now? The 'I am'. Give your heart and mind to it, think of no
thing else. This,
when effortless and natural, is the highest state. In it love itself is the love
r and the beloved.
Q: Everybody wants to live, to exist. Is it not self-love?
M: All desire has its source in the self. It is all a matter of choosing the rig
ht desire.
Q: What is right and what is wrong varies with habit and custom. Standards vary
with societies.
M: Discard all traditional standards. Leave them to the hypocrites. Only what li
berates you from
desire and fear and wrong ideas is good. As long as you worry about sin and virt
ue you will have no
peace.
Q: I grant that sin and virtue are social norms. But there may be also spiritual
sins and virtues. I
mean by spiritual the absolute. Is there such a thing as absolute sin or absolut
e virtue?
M: Sin and virtue refer to a person only. Without a sinful or virtuous person wh
at is sin or virtue? At
the level of the absolute there are no persons; the ocean of pure awareness is n
either virtuous nor
sinful. Sin and virtue are invariably relative.
Q: Can I do away with such unnecessary notions?
M: Not as long as you think yourself to be a person.
Q: By what sign shall l know that I am beyond sin and virtue?
M: By being free from all desire and fear, from the very idea of being a person.
To nourish the
ideas: 'I am a sinner' 'I am not a sinner', is sin. To identify oneself with the
particular is all the sin
there is. The impersonal is real, the personal appears and disappears. 'I am' is
the impersonal
Being. 'I am this' is the person. The person is relative and the pure Being -- f
undamental.
Q: Surely pure Being is not unconscious, nor is it devoid of discrimination. How
can it be beyond
sin and virtue? Just tell us, please, has it intelligence or not?
M: All these questions arise from your believing yourself to be a person. Go bey
ond the personal
and see.
Q: What exactly do you mean when you ask me to stop being a person?
M: I do not ask you to stop being -- that you cannot. I ask you only to stop ima
gining that you were
born, have parents, are a body, will die and so on. Just try, make a beginning -
- it is not as hard as
you think.
Q: To think oneself as the personal is the sin of the impersonal.
M: Again the personal point of view! Why do you insist on polluting the imperson
al with your ideas
of sin and virtue? It just does not apply. The impersonal cannot be described in
terms of good and
bad. It is Being -- Wisdom -- Love -- all absolute. Where is the scope for sin t
here? And virtue is
only the opposite of sin.
Q: We talk of divine virtue.
M: True virtue is divine nature (swarupa). What you are really is your virtue. B
ut the opposite of sin
which you call virtue is only obedience born out of fear.
Q: Then why all effort at being good?
M: It keeps you on the move. You go on and on till you find God. Then God takes
you into Himself
-- and makes you as He is.
Q: The same action is considered natural at one point and a sin at another. What
makes it sinful?
M: Whatever you do against your better knowledge is sin.
Q: Knowledge depends on memory.
M: Remembering your self is virtue, forgetting your self is sin. It all boils do
wn to the mental or
psychological link between the spirit and matter. We may call the link psyche (a
ntahkarana). When
the psyche is raw, undeveloped, quite primitive, it is subject to gross illusion
s. As it grows in breadth
and sensitivity, it becomes a perfect link between pure matter and pure spirit a
nd gives meaning to
matter and expression to spirit.
There is the material world (mahadakash) and the spiritual (paramakash). Between
lies the
universal mind (chidakash) which is also the universal heart (premakash). It is
wise love that makes
the two one.
Q: Some people are stupid, some are intelligent. The difference is in their psyc
he. The ripe ones
had more experience behind them. Just like a child grows by eating and drinking,
sleeping and
playing, so is man's psyche shaped by all he thinks and feels and does, until it
is perfect enough to
serve as a bridge between the spirit and the body. As a bridge permits the traff
ic; between the
banks, so does the psyche bring together the source and its expression.
M: Call it love. The bridge is love.
Q: Ultimately all is experience. Whatever we think, feel, do is experience. Behi
nd it is the
experiencer. So all we know consists of these two, the experiencer and the exper
ience. But the two
are really one -- the experiencer alone is the experience. Still, the experience
r takes the experience
to be outside. In the same way the spirit and the body are one; they only appear
as two.
M: To the Spirit there is no second.
Q: To whom then does the second appear? It seems to me that duality is an illusi
on induced by
the imperfection of the psyche. When the psyche is perfect, duality is no longer
seen.
M: You have said it.
Q: Still I have to repeat my very simple question: who makes the distinction bet
ween sin and
virtue?
M: He who has a body, sins with the body, he who has a mind, sins with the mind.
Q: Surely, the mere possession of mind and body does not compel to sin. There mu
st be a third
factor at the root of it. I come back again and again to this question of sin an
d virtue, because now-
a-days young people keep on saying that there is no such thing as sin, that one
need not be
squermish and should follow the moment's desire readily. They will accept neithe
r tradition nor
authority and can be influenced only by solid and honest thought. If they refrai
n from certain actions,
it is through fear of police rather than by conviction. Undoubtedly there is som
ething in what they
say, for we can see how our values change from place to place and time to time.
For instance --
killing in war is great virtue today and may be considered a horrible crime next
century.
M: A man who moves with the earth will necessarily experience days and nights. H
e who stays
with the sun will know no darkness. My world is not yours. As I see it, you all
are on a stage
performing. There is no reality about your comings and goings. And your problems
are so unreal!
Q: We may be sleep-walkers, or subject to nightmares. Is there nothing you can d
o?
M: I am doing: I did enter your dreamlike state to tell you -- "Stop hurting you
rself and others, stop
suffering, wake up".
Q: Why then don't we wake up?
M: You will. I shall not be thwarted. It may take some time. When you shall begi
n to question your
dream, awakening will be not far away.
22. Life is Love and Love is Life
Questioner: Is the practice of Yoga always conscious? Or, can it be quite uncons
cious, below the
threshold of awareness?
Maharaj: In the case of a beginner the practice of Yoga is often deliberate and
requires great
determination. But those who are practising sincerely for many years, are intent
on self-realisation
all the time, whether conscious of it or not. Unconscious sadhana is most effect
ive, because it is
spontaneous and steady.
Q: What is the position of the man who was a sincere student of Yoga for some ti
me and then got
discouraged and abandoned all efforts?
M: What a man appears to do, or not to do, is often deceptive. His apparent leth
argy may be just a
gathering of strength. The causes of our behaviour are very subtle. One must not
be quick to
condemn, not even to praise. Remember that Yoga is the work of the inner self (v
yakta) on the
outer self (vyakti). All that the outer does is merely in response to the inner.
Q: Still the outer helps.
M: How much can it help and in what way? It has some control over the body and c
an improve its
posture and breathing. Over the mind's thoughts and feelings it has little maste
ry, for it is itself the
mind. It is the inner that can control the outer. The outer will be wise to obey
.
Q: If it is the inner that is ultimately responsible for man's spiritual develop
ment, why is the outer
so much exhorted and encouraged?
M: The outer can help by keeping quiet and free from desire and fear. You would
have noticed that
all advice to the outer is in the form of negations: don't, stop, refrain, foreg
o, give up, sacrifice,
surrender, see the false as false. Even the little description of reality that i
s given is through denials
-- 'not this, not this', (neti, neti). All positives belong to the inner self, a
s all absolutes -- to Reality.
Q: How are we to distinguish the inner from the outer in actual experience?
M: The inner is the source of inspiration, the outer is moved by memory. The sou
rce is untraceable,
while all memory begins somewhere. Thus the outer is always determined, while th
e inner cannot
be held in words. The mistake of students consists in their imagining the inner
to be something to
get hold of, and forgetting that all perceivables are transient and, therefore,
unreal. Only that which
makes perception possible, call it Life or Brahman, or what you like, is real.
Q: Must Life have a body for its self-expression?
M: The body seeks to live. It is not life that needs the body; it is the body th
at needs life.
Q: Does life do it deliberately?
M: Does love act deliberately? Yes and no. Life is love and love is life. What k
eeps the body
together but love? What is desire, but love of the self? What is fear but the ur
ge to protect? And
what is knowledge but the love of truth? The means and forms may be wrong, but t
he motive
behind is always love -- love of the me and the mine. The me and the mine may be
small, or may
explode and embrace the universe, but love remains.
Q: The repetition of the name of God is very common in India. Is there any virtu
e in it?
M: When you know the name of a thing, or a person, you can find it easily. By ca
lling God by His
name you make Him come to you.
Q: In what shape does He come?
M: According to your expectations. If you happen to be unlucky and some saintly
soul gives you a
mantra for good luck and you repeat it with faith and devotion, your bad luck is
bound to turn.
Steady faith is stronger than destiny. Destiny is the result of causes, mostly a
ccidental, and is
therefore loosely woven. Confidence and good hope will overcome it easily.
Q: When a mantra is chanted, what exactly happens?
M: The sound of mantra creates the shape which will embody the Self. The Self ca
n embody any
shape -- and operate through it. After all, the Self is expressing itself in act
ion -- and a mantra is
primarily energy in action. It acts on you, it acts on your surroundings.
Q: The mantra is traditional. Must it be so?
M: Since time immemorial a link was created between certain words and correspond
ing energies
and reinforced by numberless repetitions. It is just like a road to walk on. It
is an easy way -- only
faith is needed. You trust the road to take you to your destination.
Q: In Europe there is no tradition of a mantra, except in some contemplative ord
ers. Of what use is
it to a modern young Westerner?
M: None, unless he is very much attracted. For him the right procedure is to adh
ere to the thought
that he is the ground of all knowledge, the immutable and perennial awareness of
all that happens
to the senses and the mind. If he keeps it in mind all the time, aware and alert
, he is bound to break
the bounds of non-awareness and emerge into pure life, light and love. The idea
-- 'I am the witness
only' will purify the body and the mind and open the eye of wisdom. Then man goe
s beyond illusion
and his heart is free of all desires. Just like ice turns to water and water to
vapour, and vapour
dissolves in air and disappears in space, so does the body dissolve into pure aw
areness
(chidakash), then into pure being (paramakash), which is beyond all existence an
d non-existence.
Q: The realised man eats, drinks and sleeps. What makes him do so?
M: The same power that moves the universe, moves him too.
Q: All are moved by the same power: what is the difference?
M: This only: The realised man knows what others merely hear; but don't experien
ce. Intellectually
they may seem convinced, but in action they betray their bondage, while the real
ised man is always
right.
Q: Everybody says 'I am'. The realised man too says 'I am'. Where is the differe
nce?
M: The difference is in the meaning attached to the words 'I am'. With the reali
sed man the
experience: 'I am the world, the world is mine' is supremely valid -- he thinks,
feels and acts
integrally and in unity with all that lives. He may not even know the theory and
practice of self-
realisation, and be born and bred free of religious and metaphysical notions. Bu
t there will not be
the least flaw in his understanding and compassion.
Q: I may come across a beggar, naked and hungry and ask him 'Who are you?' He ma
y answer: 'I
am the Supreme Self'. 'Well', I say, 'suffice you are the Supreme, change your p
resent state'. What
will he do?
M: He will ask you: 'Which state? What is there that needs changing? What is wro
ng with me?
Q: Why should he answer so?
M: Because he is no longer bound by appearances, he does not identify himself wi
th the name and
shape. He uses memory, but memory cannot use him.
Q: Is not all knowledge based on memory?
M: Lower knowledge -- yes. Higher knowledge, knowledge of Reality, is inherent i
n man's true
nature.
Q: Can I say that I am not what I am conscious of, nor am I consciousness itself
?
M: As long as you are a seeker, better cling to the idea that you are pure consc
iousness, free from
all content. To go beyond consciousness is the supreme state.
Q: The desire for realisation, does it originate in consciousness or beyond?
M: In consciousness, of course. All desire is born from memory and is within the
realm of
consciousness. What is beyond is clear of all striving. The very desire to go be
yond consciousness
is still in consciousness.
Q: Is there any trace, or imprint, of the beyond on consciousness?
M: No, there cannot be.
Q: Then, what is the link between the two? How can a passage be found between tw
o states
which have nothing in common? Is not pure awareness the link between the two?
M: Even pure awareness is a form of consciousness.
Q: Then what is beyond? Emptiness?
M: Emptiness again refers only to consciousness. Fullness and emptiness are rela
tive terms. The
Real is really beyond -- beyond not in relation to consciousness, but beyond all
relations of
whatever kind. The difficulty comes with the word 'state'. The Real is not a sta
te of something else --
it is not a state of mind or consciousness or psyche -- nor is it something that
has a beginning and
an end, being and not being. All opposites are contained in it -- but it is not
in the play of opposites.
You must not take it to be the end of a transition. It is itself, after the cons
ciousness as such is no
more. Then words 'I am man', or 'I am God' have no meaning. Only in silence and
in darkness can it
be heard and seen.
23. Discrimination leads to Detachment
Maharaj: You are all drenched for it is raining hard. In my world it is always f
ine weather. There is
no night or day, no heat or cold. No worries beset me there, nor regrets. My min
d is free of
thoughts, for there are no desires to slave for.
Questioner: Are there two worlds?
M: Your world is transient, changeful. My world is perfect, changeless. You can
tell me what you
like about your world -- I shall listen carefully, even with interest, yet not f
or a moment shall I forget
that your world is not, that you are dreaming.
Q: What distinguishes your world from mine?
M: My world has no characteristics by which it can be identified. You can say no
thing about it. I am
my world. My world is myself. It is complete and perfect. Every impression is er
ased, every
experience -- rejected. I need nothing, not even myself, for myself I cannot los
e.
Q: Not even God?
M: All these ideas and distinctions exist in your world; in mine there is nothin
g of the kind. My world
is single and very simple.
Q: Nothing happens there?
M: Whatever happens in your world, only there it has validity and evokes respons
e. In my world
nothing happens.
Q: The very fact of your experiencing your own world implies duality inherent in
all experience.
M: Verbally -- yes. But your words do not reach me. Mine is a non-verbal world.
In your world the
unspoken has no existence. In mine -- the words and their contents have no being
. In your world
nothing stays, in mine -- nothing changes. My world is real, while yours is made
of dreams.
Q: Yet we are talking.
M: The talk is in your world. In mine -- there is eternal silence. My silence si
ngs, my emptiness is
full, I lack nothing. You cannot know my world until you are there.
Q: It seems as if you alone are in your world.
M: How can you say alone or not alone, when words do not apply? Of course, I am
alone for I am
all.
Q: Are you ever coming into our world?
M: What is coming and going to me? These again are words. I am. Whence am I to c
ome from and
where to go?
Q: Of what use is your world to me?
M: You should consider more closely your own world, examine it critically and, s
uddenly, one day
you will find yourself in mine.
Q: What do we gain by it?
M: You gain nothing. You leave behind what is not your own and find what you hav
e never lost --
your own being.
Q: Who is the ruler of your world?
M: There are no ruler and ruled here. There is no duality whatsoever. You are me
rely projecting
your own ideas. Your scriptures and your gods have no meaning here.
Q: Still you have a name and shape, display consciousness and activity.
M: In your world I appear so. In mine I have being only. Nothing else. You peopl
e are rich with your
ideas of possession, of quantity and quality. I am completely without ideas.
Q: In my world there is disturbance, distress and despair. You seem to be living
on some hidden
income, while I must slave for a living.
M: Do as you please. You are free to leave your world for mine.
Q: How is the crossing done?
M: See your world as it is, not as you imagine it to be. Discrimination will lea
d to detachment;
detachment will ensure right action; right action will build the inner bridge to
your real being. Action
is a proof of earnestness. Do what you are told diligently and faithfully and al
l obstacles will dissolve.
Q: Are you happy?
M: In your world I would be most miserable. To wake up, to eat, to talk, to slee
p again -- what a
bother!
Q: So you do not want to live even?
M: To live, to die -- what meaningless words are these! When you see me alive, I
am dead. When
you think me dead, I am alive. How muddled up you are!
Q: How indifferent you are? All the sorrows of our world are as nothing to you.
M: I am quite conscious of your troubles.
Q: Then what are you doing about them?
M: There is nothing I need doing. They come and go.
Q: Do they go by the very act of your giving them attention?
M: Yes. The difficulty may be physical, emotional or mental; but it is always in
dividual. Large scale
calamities are the sum of numberless individual destinies and take time to settl
e. But death is never
a calamity.
Q: Even when a man is killed?
M: The calamity is of the killer.
Q: Still, it seems there are two worlds, mine and yours.
M: Mine is real, yours is of the mind.
Q: Imagine a rock and a hole in the rock and a frog in the hole. The frog may sp
end its life in
perfect bliss, undistracted, undisturbed. Outside the rock the world goes on. If
the frog in the hole
were told about the outside world, he would say: 'There is no such thing. My wor
ld is of peace and
bliss. Your world is a word structure only, it has no existence'. It is the same
with you. When you tell
us that our world simply does not exist, there is no common ground for discussio
n. Or, take another
example. I go to a doctor and complain of stomach ache. He examines me and says:
'You are all
right'. 'But it pains' I say. 'Your pain is mental' he asserts. I say 'It does n
ot help me to know that my
pain is mental. You are a doctor, cure me of my pain. If you cannot cure me, you
are not my doctor.'
M: Quite right.
Q: You have built the railroad, but for lack of a bridge no train can pass. Buil
d the bridge.
M: There is no need of a bridge.
Q: There must be some link between your world and mine.
M: There is no need of a link between a real world and an imaginary world, for t
here cannot be any.
Q: So what are we to do?
M: Investigate your world, apply your mind to it, examine it critically, scrutin
ise every idea about it;
that will do.
Q: The world is too big for investigation. All I know is that I am the world is,
the world troubles me
and I trouble the world.
M: My experience is that everything is bliss. But the desire for bliss creates p
ain. Thus bliss
becomes the seed of pain. The entire universe of pain is born of desire. Give up
the desire for
pleasure and you will not even know what is pain.
Q: Why should pleasure be the seed of pain?
M: Because for the sake of pleasure you are committing many sins. And the fruits
of sin are
suffering and death.
Q: You say the world is of no use to us -- only a tribulation. I feel it cannot
be so. God is not such a
fool. The world seems to me a big enterprise for bringing the potential into act
ual, matter into life,
the unconscious into full awareness. To realise the supreme we need the experien
ce of the
opposites. Just as for building a temple we need stone and mortar, wood and iron
, glass and tiles,
so for making a man into a divine sage, a master of life and death, one needs th
e material of every
experience. As a woman goes to the market, buys provisions of every sort, comes
home, cooks,
bakes and feeds her lord, so we bake ourselves nicely in the fire of life and fe
ed our God.
M: Well, if you think so, act on it. Feed your God, by all means.
Q: A child goes to school and learns many things, which will be of no use to it
later. But in the
course of learning it grows. So do we pass through experiences without number an
d forget them all,
but in the meantime we grow all the time. And what is a jnani but a man with a g
enius for reality!
This world of mine cannot be an accident. It makes sense, there must be a plan b
ehind it. My God
has a plan.
M: If the world is false, then the plan and its creator are also false.
Q: Again, you deny the world. There is no bridge between us.
M: There is no need of a bridge. Your mistake lies in your belief that you are b
orn. You were never
born nor will you ever die, but you believe that you were born at a certain date
and place and that a
particular body is your own.
Q: The world is, I am. These are facts.
M: Why do you worry about the world before taking care of yourself? You want to
save the world,
don't you? Can you save the world before saving yourself? And what means being s
aved? Saved
from what? From illusion. Salvation is to see things as they are. I really do no
t see myself related to
anybody and anything. Not even to a self, whatever that self may be. I remain fo
rever -- undefined. I
am -- within and beyond -- intimate and unapproachable.
Q: How did you come to it?
M: By my trust in my Guru. He told me 'You alone are' and I did not doubt him. I
was merely
puzzling over it, until I realised that it is absolutely true.
Q: Conviction by repetition?
M: By self-realisation. I found that I am conscious and happy absolutely and onl
y by mistake I
thought I owed beingconsciousness-
bliss to the body and the world of bodies.
Q: You are not a learned man. You have not read much and what you read, or heard
did perhaps
not contradict itself. I am fairly well educated and have read a lot and I found
that books and
teachers contradict each other hopelessly. Hence whatever I read or hear, I take
it in a state of
doubt. 'It may be so, it may not be so' is my first reaction. And as my mind is
unable to decide what
is true and what is not, I am left high and dry with my doubts. In Yoga a doubti
ng mind is at a
tremendous disadvantage.
M: I am glad to hear it; but my Guru too taught me to doubt -- everything and ab
solutely. He said:
'deny existence to everything except your self.' Through desire you have created
the world with its
pains and pleasures.
Q: Must it be also painful?
M: What else? By its very nature pleasure is limited and transitory. Out of pain
desire is born, in
pain it seeks fulfilment, and it ends in the pain of frustration and despair. Pa
in is the background of
pleasure, all seeking of pleasure is born in pain and ends in pain.
Q: All you say is clear to me. But when some physical or mental trouble comes, m
y mind goes dull
and grey, or seeks frantically for relief.
M: What does it matter? It is the mind that is dull or restless, not you. Look,
all kinds of things
happen in this room. Do I cause them to happen? They just happen. So it is with
you -- the roll of
destiny unfolds itself and actualises the inevitable. You cannot change the cour
se of events, but you
can change your attitude and what really matters is the attitude and not the bar
e event. The world is
the abode of desires and fears. You cannot find peace in it. For peace you must
go beyond the
world. The rootcause
of the world is self-love. Because of it we seek pleasure and avoid pain.
Replace self-love by love of the Self and the picture changes. Brahma the Creato
r is the sum total
of all desires. The world is the instrument for their fulfilment. Souls take wha
tever pleasure they
desire and pay for them in tears. Time squares all accounts. The law of balance
reigns supreme.
Q: To be a superman one must be a man first. Manhood is the fruit of innumerable
experiences:
Desire drives to experience. Hence at its own time and level desire is right.
M: All this is true in a way. But a day comes when you have amassed enough and m
ust begin to
build. Then sorting out and discarding (viveka-vairagya) are absolutely necessar
y. Everything must
be scrutinised and the unnecessary ruthlessly destroyed. Believe me, there canno
t be too much
destruction. For in reality nothing is of value. Be passionately dispassionate -
- that is all.
24. God is the All-doer, the Jnani a Non-doer
Questioner: Some Mahatmas (enlightened beings) maintain that the world is neithe
r an accident
nor a play of God, but the result and expression of a mighty plan of work aiming
at awakening and
developing consciousness throughout the universe. From lifelessness to life, fro
m unconsciousness
to consciousness, from dullness to bright intelligence, from misapprehension to
clarity -- that is the
direction in which the world moves ceaselessly and relentlessly. Of course, ther
e are moments of
rest and apparent darkness, when the universe seems to be dormant, but the rest
comes to an end
and the work on consciousness is resumed. From our point of view the world is a
dale of tears, a
place to escape from, as soon as possible and by every possible means. To enligh
tened beings the
world is good and it serves a good purpose. They do not deny that the world is a
mental structure
and that ultimately all is one, but they see and say that the structure has mean
ing and serves a
supremely desirable purpose. What we call the will of God is not a capricious wh
im of a playful
deity, but the expression of an absolute necessity to grow in love and wisdom an
d power, to
actualise the infinite potentials of life and consciousness.
Just as a gardener grows flowers from a tiny seed to glorious perfection, so doe
s God in His own
garden grow, among other beings, men to supermen, who know and love and work alo
ng with Him.
When God takes rest (pralaya), those whose growth was not completed, become unco
nscious for a
time, while the perfect ones, who have gone beyond all forms and contents of con
sciousness,
remain aware of the universal silence. When the time comes for the emergence of
a new universe,
the sleepers wake up and their work starts. The more advanced wake up first and
prepare the
ground for the less advanced -- who thus find forms and patterns of behaviour su
itable for their
further growth.
Thus runs the story. The difference with your teaching is this: you insist that
the world is no good
and should be shunned. They say that distaste for the world is a passing stage,
necessary, yet
temporary, and is soon replaced by an all-pervading love, and a steady will to w
ork with God.
Maharaj: All you say is right for the outgoing (pravritti) path. For the path of
return (nivritti)
naughting oneself is necessary. My stand I take where nothing (paramakash) is; w
ords do not reach
there, nor thoughts. To the mind it is all darkness and silence. Then consciousn
ess begins to stir
and wakes up the mind (chidakash), which projects the world (mahadakash), built
of memory and
imagination. Once the world comes into being, all you say may be so. It is in th
e nature of the mind
to imagine goals, to strive towards them, to seek out means and ways, to display
vision, energy and
courage. These are divine attributes and I do not deny them. But I take my stand
where no
difference exists, where things are not, nor the minds that create them. There I
am at home.
Whatever happens, does not affect me -- things act on things, that is all. Free
from memory and
expectation, I am fresh, innocent and wholehearted. Mind is the great worker (ma
hakarta) and it
needs rest. Needing nothing, I am unafraid. Whom to be afraid of? There is no se
paration, we are
not separate selves. There is only one Self, the Supreme Reality, in which the p
ersonal and the
impersonal are one.
Q: All I want is to be able to help the world.
M: Who says you cannot help? You made up your mind about what help means and nee
ds and got
your self into a conflict between what you should and what you can, between nece
ssity and ability.
Q: But why do we do so?
M: Your mind projects a structure and you identify yourself with it. It is in th
e nature of desire to
prompt the mind to create a world for its fulfilment. Even a small desire can st
art a long line of
action; what about a strong desire? Desire can produce a universe; its powers ar
e miraculous. Just
as a small matchstick can set a huge forest on fire, so does a desire light the
fires of manifestation.
The very purpose of creation is the fulfilment of desire. The desire may be nobl
e, or ignoble, space
(akash) is neutral -- one can fill it with what one likes: You must be very care
ful as to what you
desire. And as to the people you want to help, they are in their respective worl
ds for the sake of
their desires; there is no way of helping them except through their desires. You
can only teach them
to have right desires so that they may rise above them and be free from the urge
to create and re-
create worlds of desires, abodes of pain and pleasure.
Q: A day must come when the show is wound up; a man must die, a universe come to
an end.
M: Just as a sleeping man forgets all and wakes up for another day, or he dies a
nd emerges into
another life, so do the worlds of desire and fear dissolve and disappear. But th
e universal witness,
the Supreme Self never sleeps and never dies. Eternally the Great Heart beats an
d at each beat a
new universe comes into being.
Q: Is he conscious?
M: He is beyond all that the mind conceives. He is beyond being and not being. H
e is the Yes and
No to everything, beyond and within, creating and destroying, unimaginably real.
Q: God and the Mahatma are they one or two?
M: They are one.
Q: There must be some difference.
M: God is the All-Doer, the jnani is a non-doer. God himself does not say: 'I am
doing all.' To Him
things happen by their own nature. To the jnani all is done by God. He sees no d
ifference between
God and nature. Both God and the jnani know themselves to be the immovable centr
e of the
movable, the eternal witness of the transient. The centre is a point of void and
the witness a point of
pure awareness; they know themselves to be as nothing, therefore nothing can res
ist them.
Q: How does this look and feel in your personal experience?
M: Being nothing, I am all. Everything is me, everything is mine. Just as my bod
y moves by my
mere thinking of the movement, so do things happen as I think of them. Mind you,
I do nothing. I
just see them happen.
Q: Do things happen as you want them to happen, or do you want them to happen as
they
happen?
M: Both. I accept and am accepted. I am all and all is me. Being the world I am
not afraid of the
world. Being all, what am I to be afraid of? Water is not afraid of water, nor f
ire of fire. Also I am not
afraid because I am nothing that can experience fear, or can be in danger. I hav
e no shape, nor
name. It is attachment to a name and shape that breeds fear. I am not attached.
I am nothing, and
nothing is afraid of no thing. On the contrary, everything is afraid of the Noth
ing, for when a thing
touches Nothing, it becomes nothing. It is like a bottomless well, whatever fall
s into it, disappears.
Q: Isn't God a person?
M: As long as you think yourself to be a person, He too is a person. When you ar
e all, you see Him
as all.
Q: Can I change facts by changing attitude?
M: The attitude is the fact. Take anger. I may be furious, pacing the room up an
d down; at the
same time I know what I am, a centre of wisdom and love, an atom of pure existen
ce. All subsides
and the mind merges into silence.
Q: Still, you are angry sometimes.
M: With whom am l to be angry and for what? Anger came and dissolved on my remem
bering
myself. It is all a play of gunas (qualities of cosmic matter). When I identify
myself with them, I am
their slave. When I stand apart, I am their master.
Q: Can you influence the world by your attitude? By separating yourself from the
world you lose all
hope of helping it.
M: How can it be? All is myself -- can't I help myself? I do not identify myself
with anybody in
particular, for I am all -- both the particular and the universal.
Q: Can you then help me, the particular person?
M: But I do help you always -- from within. My self and your self are one. I kno
w it, but you don't.
That is all the difference -- and it cannot last.
Q: And how do you help the entire world?
M: Gandhi is dead, yet his mind pervades the earth. The thought of a jnani perva
des humanity and
works ceaselessly for good. Being anonymous, coming from within, it is the more
powerful and
compelling. That is how the world improves -- the inner aiding and blessing the
outer. When a jnani
dies, he is no more, in the same sense in which a river is no more when it merge
s in the sea, the
name, the shape, are no more, but the water remains and becomes one with the oce
an. When a
jnani joins the universal mind, all his goodness and wisdom become the heritage
of humanity and
uplift every human being.
Q: We are attached to our personality. Our individuality, our being unlike other
s, we value very
much. You seem to denounce both as useless. Your unmanifested, of what use is it
to us?
M: Unmanifested, manifested, individuality, personality (nirguna, saguna, vyakta
, vyakti); all these
are mere words, points of view, mental attitudes. There is no reality in them. T
he real is experienced
in silence. You cling to personality -- but you are conscious of being a person
only when you are in
trouble -- when you are not in trouble you do not think of yourself.
Q: You did not tell me the uses of the Unmanifested.
M: Surely, you must sleep in order to wake up. You must die in order to live, yo
u must melt down to
shape anew. You must destroy to build, annihilate before creation. The Supreme i
s the universal
solvent, it corrodes every container, it burns through every obstacle. Without t
he absolute denial of
everything the tyranny of things would be absolute. The Supreme is the great har
moniser, the
guarantee of the ultimate and perfect balance -- of life in freedom. It dissolve
s you and thus re-
asserts your true being.
Q: It is all well on its own level. But how does it work in daily life?
M: The daily life is a life of action. Whether you like it or not, you must func
tion. Whatever you do
for your own sake accumulates and becomes explosive; one day it goes off and pla
ys havoc with
you and your world. When you deceive yourself that you work for the good of all,
it makes matters
worse, for you should not be guided by your own ideas of what is good for others
. A man who
claims to know what is good for others, is dangerous.
Q: How is one to work then?
M: Neither for yourself nor for others, but for the work's own sake. A thing wor
th doing is its own
purpose and meaning, Make nothing a means to something else. Bind not. God does
not create
one thing to serve another. Each is made for its own sake. Because it is made fo
r itself, it does not
interfere. You are using things and people for purposes alien to them and you pl
ay havoc with the
world and yourself.
Q: Our real being is all the time with us, you say. How is it that we do not not
ice it?
M: Yes, you are always the Supreme. But your attention is fixed on things, physi
cal or mental.
When your attention is off a thing and not yet fixed on another, in the interval
you are pure being.
When through the practice of discrimination and detachment (viveka-vairagya), yo
u lose sight of
sensory and mental states, pure being emerges as the natural state.
Q: How does one bring to an end this sense of separateness?
M: By focussing the mind on 'I am', on the sense of being, 'I am so-and-so' diss
olves; "I am a
witness only" remains and that too submerges in 'I am all'. Then the all becomes
the One and the
One -- yourself, not to be separate from me. Abandon the idea of a separate 'I'
and the question of
'whose experience?' will not arise.
Q: You speak from your own experience. How can I make it mine?
M: You speak of my experience as different from your experience, because you bel
ieve we are
separate. But we are not. On a deeper level my experience is your experience. Di
ve deep within
yourself and you will find it easily and simply. Go in the direction of 'I am'.
25. Hold on to I am
Questioner: Are you ever glad or sad? Do you know joy and sorrow?
Maharaj: Call them as you please. To me they are states of mind only, and I am n
ot the mind.
Q: Is love a state of mind?
M: Again, it depends what you mean by love. Desire is, of course, a state of min
d. But the
realisation of unity is beyond mind. To me, nothing exists by itself. All is the
Self, all is myself. To
see myself in everybody and everybody in myself most certainly is love.
Q: When I see something pleasant, I want it. Who exactly wants it? The self or t
he mind?
M: The question is wrongly put. There is no 'who'. There is desire, fear, anger,
and the mind says --
this is me, this is mine. There is no thing which could be called 'me' or 'mine'
. Desire is a state of the
mind, perceived and named by the mind. Without the mind perceiving and naming, w
here is desire?
Q: But is there such a thing as perceiving without naming?
M: Of course. Naming cannot go beyond the mind, while perceiving is consciousnes
s itself.
Q: When somebody dies what exactly happens?
M: Nothing happens. Something becomes nothing. Nothing was, nothing remains.
Q: Surely there is a difference between the living and the dead. You speak of th
e living as dead
and of the dead as living.
M: Why do you fret at one man dying and care little for the millions dying every
day? Entire
universes are imploding and exploding every moment -- am I to cry over them? One
thing is quite
clear to me: all that is, lives and moves and has its being in consciousness and
I am in and beyond
that consciousness. I am in it as the witness. I am beyond it as Being.
Q: Surely, you care when your child is ill, don't you?
M: I don't get flustered. I just do the needful. I do not worry about the future
. A right response to
every situation is in my nature. I do not stop to think what to do. I act and mo
ve on. Results do not
affect me. I do not even care, whether they are good or bad. Whatever they are,
they are -- if they
come back to me, I deal with them afresh. Or, rather, I happen to deal with them
afresh. There is no
sense of purpose in my doing anything. Things happens as they happen -- not beca
use I make
them happen, but it is because I am that they happen. In reality nothing ever ha
ppens. When the
mind is restless, it makes Shiva dance, like the restless waters of the lake mak
e the moon dance. It
is all appearance, due to wrong ideas.
Q: Surely, you are aware of many things and behave according to their nature. Yo
u treat a child as
a child and an adult as an adult.
M: Just as the taste of salt pervades the great ocean and every single drop of s
ea-water carries the
same flavour, so every experience gives me the touch of reality, the ever fresh
realisation of my
own being.
Q: Do I exist in your world, as you exist in mine?
M: Of course, you are and I am. But only as points in consciousness; we are noth
ing apart from
consciousness. This must be well grasped: the world hangs on the thread of consc
iousness; no
consciousness, no world.
Q: There are many points in consciousness; are there as many worlds?
M: Take dream for an example. In a hospital there may be many patients, all slee
ping, all
dreaming, each dreaming his own private, personal dreams unrelated, unaffected,
having one
single factor in common -- illness. Similarly, we have divorced ourselves in our
imagination from the
real world of common experience and enclosed ourselves in a cloud of personal de
sire and fears,
images and thoughts, ideas and concepts.
Q: This I can understand. But what could be the cause of the tremendous variety
of the personal
worlds?
M: The variety is not so great. All the dreams are superimposed over a common wo
rld. To some
extent they shape and influence each other. The basic unity operates in spite of
all. At the root of it
all lies self-forgetfulness; not knowing who I am.
Q: To forget, one must know. Did I know who I am, before I forgot it?
M: Of course. Self-forgetting is inherent in self-knowing. Consciousness and unc
onsciousness are
two aspects of one life. They co-exist. To know the world you forget the self --
to know the self you
forget the world. What is world after all? A collection of memories. Cling to on
e thing, that matters,
hold on to 'I am' and let go all else. This is sadhana. In realisation there is
nothing to hold on to and
nothing to forget. Everything is known, nothing is remembered.
Q: What is the cause of self-forgetting?
M: There is no cause, because there is no forgetting. Mental states succeed one
another, and each
obliterates the previous one. Self-remembering is a mental state and self-forget
ting is another. They
alternate like day and night. Reality is beyond both.
Q: Surely there must be a difference between forgetting and not knowing. Not kno
wing needs no
cause. Forgetting presupposes previous knowledge and also the tendency or abilit
y to forget. I
admit I cannot enquire into the reason for not-knowing, but forgetting must have
some ground.
M: There is no such thing as not-knowing. There is only forgetting. What is wron
g with forgetting? It
is as simple to forget as to remember.
Q: Is it not a calamity to forget oneself?
M: As bad as to remember oneself continuously. There is a state beyond forgettin
g and not-
forgetting -- the natural state. To remember, to forget -- these are all states
of mind, thoughtbound,
word-bound. Take for example, the idea of being born. I am told I was born. I do
not remember. I
am told I shall die I do not expect it. You tell me I have forgotten, or I lack
imagination. But I just
cannot remember what never happened, nor expect the patently impossible. Bodies
are born and
bodies die, but what is it to me? Bodies come and go in consciousness and consci
ousness itself
has its roots in me. I am life and mine are mind and body.
Q: You say at the root of the world is self-forgetfulness. To forget I must reme
mber What did I
forget to remember? I have not forgotten that I am.
M: This 'I am' too may be a part of the illusion.
Q. How can it be? You cannot prove to me that I am not. Even when convinced that
I am not -- I am.
M: Reality can neither be proved nor disproved. Within the mind you cannot, beyo
nd the mind you
need not. In the real, the question 'what is real?' does not arise. The manifest
ed (saguna) and
unmanifested (nirguna) are not different.
Q: In that case all is real.
M: I am all. As myself all is real. Apart from me, nothing is real.
Q: I do not feel that the world is the result of a mistake.
M: You may say so only after a full investigation, not before. Of course, when y
ou discern and let
go all that is unreal, what remains is real.
Q: Does anything remain?
M: The real remains. But don't be mislead by words!
Q: Since immemorial time, during innumerable births, I build and improve and bea
utify my world. It
is neither perfect, nor unreal. It is a process.
M: You are mistaken. The world has no existence apart from you. At every moment
it is but a
reflection of yourself. You create it, you destroy it.
Q: And build it again, improved.
M: To improve it, you must disprove it. One must die to live. There is no rebirt
h, except through
death.
Q: Your universe may be perfect. My personal universe is improving.
M: Your personal universe does not exist by itself. It is merely a limited and d
istorted view of the
real. It is not the universe that needs improving, but your way of looking.
Q: How do you view it?
M: It is a stage on which a world drama is being played. The quality of the perf
ormance is all that
matters; not what the actors say and do, but how they say and do it.
Q: I do not like this lila (play) idea I would rather compare the world to a wor
k-yard in which we are
the builders.
M: You take it too seriously. What is wrong with play? You have a purpose only a
s long as you are
not complete (purna); till then completeness, perfection, is the purpose. But wh
en you are complete
in yourself, fully integrated within and without, then you enjoy the universe; y
ou do not labour at it.
To the disintegrated you may seem working hard, but that is their illusion. Spor
tsmen seem to make
tremendous efforts: yet their sole motive is to play and display.
Q: Do you mean to say that God is just having fun, that he is engaged in purpose
less action?
M: God is not only true and good, he is also beautiful (satyam-shivam-sundaram).
He creates
beauty -- for the joy of It
Q: Well, then beauty is his purpose!
M: Why do you introduce purpose? Purpose implies movement, change, a sense of im
perfection.
God does not aim at beauty -- whatever he does is beautiful. Would you say that
a flower is trying to
be beautiful? It is beautiful by its very nature. Similarly God is perfection it
self, not an effort at
perfection.
Q: The purpose fulfils itself in beauty.
M: What is beautiful? Whatever is perceived blissfully is beautiful. Bliss is th
e essence of beauty.
Q: You speak of Sat-Chit-Ananda. That I am is obvious. That I know is obvious. T
hat I am happy is
not at all obvious. Where has my happiness gone?
M: Be fully aware of your own being and you will be in bliss consciously. Becaus
e you take your
mind off yourself and make it dwell on what you are not, you lose your sense of
well-being of being
well.
Q: There are two paths before us -- the path of effort (yoga marga), and the pat
h of ease (bhoga
marga). Both lead to the same goal -- liberation.
M: Why do you call bhoga a path? How can ease bring you perfection?
Q: The perfect renouncer (yogi) will find reality. The perfect enjoyer (bhogi) a
lso will come to it.
M: How can it be? Aren't they contradictory?
Q: The extremes meet. To be a perfect Bhogi is more difficult than to be a perfe
ct Yogi. I am a
humble man and cannot venture judgements of value. Both the Yogi and the Bhogi,
after all, are
concerned with the search for happiness. The Yogi wants it permanent, the Bhogi
is satisfied with
the intermittent. Often the Bhogi strives harder than the Yogi.
M: What is your happiness worth when you have to strive and labour for it? True
happiness is
spontaneous and effortless.
Q: All beings seek happiness. The means only differ. Some seek it within and are
therefore called
Yogis; some seek it without and are condemned as Bhogis. Yet they need each othe
r.
M: Pleasure and pain alternate. Happiness is unshakable. What you can seek and f
ind is not the
real thing. Find what you have never lost, find the inalienable.
26. Personality, an Obstacle
Questioner: As I can see, the world is a school of Yoga and life itself is Yoga
practice. Everybody
strives for perfection and what is Yoga but striving. There is nothing contempti
ble about the so-
called 'common' people and their 'common' lives. They strive as hard and suffer
as much as the
Yogi, only they are not conscious of their true purpose.
Maharaj: In what way are your common people -- Yogis?
Q: Their ultimate goal is the same. What the Yogi secures by renunciation (tyaga
) the common
man realises through experience (bhoga). The way of Bhoga is unconscious and, th
erefore,
repetitive and protracted, while the way of Yoga is deliberate and intense and,
therefore, can be
more rapid.
M: Maybe the periods of Yoga and Bhoga alternate. First Bhogi, then Yogi, then a
gain Bhogi, then
again Yogi.
Q: What may be the purpose?
M: Weak desires can be removed by introspection and meditation, but strong, deep
-rooted ones
must be fulfilled and their fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted.
Q: Why then should we pay tribute to Yogis and speak slightingly of Bhogis? All
are Yogis, in a
way.
M: On the human scale of values deliberate effort is considered praiseworthy. In
reality both the
Yogi and Bhogi follow their own nature, according to circumstances and opportuni
ties. The Yogi's
life is governed by a single desire -- to find the Truth; the Bhogi serves many
masters. But the Bhogi
becomes a Yogi and the Yogi may get a rounding up in a bout of Bhoga. The final
result is the same.
Q: Buddha is reported to have said that it is tremendously important to have hea
rd that there is
enlightenment, a complete reversal and transformation in consciousness. The good
news is
compared to a spark in a shipload of cotton; slowly but relentlessly the whole o
f it will turn to ashes.
Similarly the good news of enlightenment will, sooner or later, bring about a tr
ansformation.
M: Yes, first hearing (shravana), then remembering (smarana), pondering (manana)
and so on. We
are on familiar ground. The man who heard the news becomes a Yogi; while the res
t continue in
their Bhoga.
Q: But you agree that living a life -- just living the humdrum life of the world
, being born to die and
dying to be born -- advances man by its sheer volume, just like the river finds
its way to the sea by
the sheer mass of the water it gathers.
M: Before the world was, consciousness was. In consciousness it comes into being
, in
consciousness it lasts and into pure consciousness it dissolves. At the root of
everything, is the
feeling 'I am'. The state of mind: 'there is a world' is secondary, for to be, I
do not need the world,
the world needs me.
Q: The desire to live is a tremendous thing.
M: Still greater is the freedom from the urge to live.
Q: The freedom of the stone?
M: Yes, the freedom of the stone, and much more besides. Freedom unlimited and c
onscious.
Q: Is not personality required for gathering experience?
M: As you are now, the personality is only an obstacle. Selfidentification
with the body may be
good for an infant, but true growing up depends on getting the body out of the w
ay. Normally, one
should outgrow body-based desires early in life. Even the Bhogi, who does not re
fuse enjoyments,
need not hanker after the ones he has tasted. Habit, desire for repetition frust
rates both the Yogi
and the Bhogi.
Q: Why do you keep on dismissing the person (vyakti) as of no importance? Person
ality is the
primary fact of our existence. It occupies the entire stage.
M: As long as you do not see that it is mere habit, built on memory, prompted by
desire, you will
think yourself to be a person -- living, feeling, thinking, active, passive, ple
ased or pained. Question
yourself, ask yourself. 'Is it so?' 'Who am l'? 'What is behind and beyond all t
his?' And soon you will
see your mistake. And it is in the very nature of a mistake to cease to be, when
seen.
Q: The Yoga of living, of life itself, we may call the Natural Yoga (nisarga yog
a). It reminds me of
the Primal Yoga (adhi yoga), mentioned in the Rig-Veda which was described as th
e marrying of life
with mind.
M: A life lived thoughtfully, in full awareness, is by itself Nisarga Yoga.
Q: What does the marriage of life and mind mean?
M: Living in spontaneous awareness, consciousness of effortless living, being fu
lly interested in
one's life -- all this is implied.
Q: Sharada Devi, wife of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, used to scold his disciple
s for too much
effort. She compared them to mangoes on the tree which are being plucked before
they are ripe.
'Why hurry?' she used to say. 'Wait till you are fully ripe, mellow and sweet.'
M: How right she was! There are so many who take the dawn for the noon, a moment
ary
experience for full realisation and destroy even the little they gain by excess
of pride. Humility and
silence are essential for a sadhaka, however advanced. Only a fully ripened jnan
i can allow himself
complete spontaneity.
Q: It seems there are schools of Yoga where the student, after illumination, is
obliged to keep
silent for 7 or 12 or 15 or even 25 years. Even Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi imp
osed on himself
20 years of silence before he began to teach.
M: Yes, the inner fruit must ripen. Until then the discipline, the living in awa
reness, must go on.
Gradually the practice becomes more and more subtle, until it becomes altogether
formless.
Q: Krishnamurti too speaks of living in awareness.
M: He always aims directly at the 'ultimate'. Yes, ultimately all Yogas end in y
our adhi yoga, the
marriage of consciousness (the bride) to life (the bridegroom). Consciousness an
d being (sad-chit)
meet in bliss (ananda). For bliss to arise there must be meeting, contact, the a
ssertion of unity in
duality.
Q: Buddha too has said that for the attainment of nirvana one must go to living
beings.
Consciousness needs life to grow.
M: The world itself is contact -- the totality of all contacts actualised in con
sciousness. The spirit
touches matter and consciousness results. Such consciousness. when tainted with
memory and
expectation, becomes bondage. Pure experience does not bind; experience caught b
etween desire
and fear is impure and creates karma.
Q: Can there be happiness in unity? Does not all happiness imply necessarily con
tact, hence
duality?
M: There is nothing wrong with duality as long as it does not create conflict. M
ultiplicity and variety
without strife is joy. In pure consciousness there is light. For warmth, contact
is needed. Above the
unity of being is the union of love. Love is the meaning and purpose of duality.
Q: I am an adopted child. My own father I do not know. My mother died when I was
born. My
foster father, to please my foster mother, who was childless, adopted me -- almo
st by accident. He
is a simple man -- a truck owner and driver. My mother keeps the house. I am 24
years now. For
the last two and a half years I am travelling, restless, seeking. I want to live
a good life, a holy life.
What am I to do?
M: Go home, take charge of your father's business, look after your parents in th
eir old age. Marry
the girl who is waiting for you, be loyal, be simple, be humble. Hide your virtu
e, live silently. The five
senses and the three qualities (gunas) are your eight steps in Yoga. And 'I am'
is the Great
Reminder (mahamantra). You can learn from them all you need to know. Be attentiv
e, enquire
ceaselessly. That is all.
Q: If just living one's life liberates, why are not all liberated?
M: All are being liberated. It is not what you live, but how you live that matte
rs. The idea of
enlightenment is of utmost importance. Just to know that there is such possibili
ty, changes one's
entire outlook. It acts like a burning match in a heap of saw dust. All the grea
t teachers did nothing
else. A spark of truth can burn up a mountain of lies. The opposite is also true
; The sun of truth
remains hidden behind the cloud of self-identification with the body.
Q: This spreading the good news of enlightenment seems very important.
M: The very hearing of it, is a promise of enlightenment. The very meeting a Gur
u is the assurance
of liberation. Perfection is life-giving and creative.
Q: Does a realised man ever think: 'I am realised?' Is he not astonished when pe
ople make much
of him? Does he not take himself to be an ordinary human being?
M: Neither ordinary, nor extra-ordinary. Just being aware and affectionate -- in
tensely. He looks at
himself without indulging in self-definitions and self-identifications. He does
not know himself as
anything apart from the world. He is the world. He is completely rid of himself,
like a man who is
very rich, but continually gives away his riches. He is not rich, for he has not
hing; he is not poor, for
he gives abundantly. He is just propertyless. Similarly, the realised man is ego
less; he has lost the
capacity of identifying himself with anything. He is without location, placeless
, beyond space and
time, beyond the world. Beyond words and thoughts is he.
Q: Well, it is deep mystery to me. I am a simple man.
M: It is you who are deeply complex, mysterious, hard to understand. I am simpli
city itself,
compared to you: I am what is -- without any distinction whatsoever into inner a
nd outer, mine and
yours, good and bad. What the world is, I am; what I am the world is.
Q: How does it happen that each man creates his own world?
M: When a number of people are asleep, each dreams his own dream. Only on awaken
ing the
question of many different dreams arises and dissolves when they are all seen as
dreams, as
something imagined.
Q: Even dreams have a foundation.
M: In memory. Even then, what is remembered, is but another dream. The memory of
the false
cannot but give rise to the false. There is nothing wrong with memory as such. W
hat is false is its
content. Remember facts, forget opinions.
Q: What is a fact?
M: What is perceived in pure awareness, unaffected by desire.
27. The Beginningless Begins Forever
Questioner: The other day I was asking you about the two ways of growth -- renun
ciation and
enjoyment (yoga and bhoga). The difference is not so great as it looks -- the Yo
gi renounces to
enjoy; the Bhogi enjoys to renounce. The Yogi renounces first.
Maharaj: So what? Leave the Yogi to his Yoga and the Bhogi to Bhoga.
Q: The way of Bhoga seems to me the better one. The Yogi is like a green mango,
separated from
the tree prematurely and kept to open in a basket of straw. Airless and overheat
ed, it does get ripe,
but the true flavour and fragrance are lost. The mango left on the tree grows to
full size, colour and
sweetness. A joy in every way. Yet somehow Yoga gets all the praises, and Bhoga
-- all the curses.
As I see it, Bhoga is the better of the two.
M: What makes you say so?
Q: I watched the Yogis and their enormous efforts. Even when they realise, there
is something
bitter or astringent about it. They seem to spend much of their time in trances
and when they speak,
they merely voice their scriptures. At their best such jnanis are like flowers -
- perfect, but just little
flowers, shedding their fragrance within a short radius. There are some others,
who are like forests
-- rich, varied, immense, full of surprises, a world in themselves. There must b
e a reason for this
difference.
M: Well, you said it. According to you one got stunted in his Yoga, while the ot
her flourished in
Bhoga.
Q: Is it not so? The Yogi is afraid of life and seeks peace, while the Bhogi is
adventurous, full of
spirits, forward going. The Yogi is bound by an ideal, while the Bhogi is ever r
eady to explore.
M: It is a matter of wanting much or being satisfied with little. The Yogi is am
bitious while the Bhogi
is merely adventurous. Your Bhogi seems to be richer and more interesting, but i
t is not so in reality.
The Yogi is narrow as the sharp edge of the knife. He has to be -- to cut deep a
nd smoothly, to
penetrate unerringly the many layers of the false. The Bhogi worships at many al
tars; the Yogi
serves none but his own true Self.
There is no purpose in opposing the Yogi to the Bhogi. The way of outgoing (prav
ritti) necessarily
precedes the way of returning (nivritti). To sit in judgement and allot marks is
ridiculous. Everything
contributes to the ultimate perfection. Some say there are three aspects of real
ity -- Truth-Wisdom-
Bliss; He who seeks Truth becomes a Yogi, he who seeks wisdom becomes a jnani; h
e who seeks
happiness becomes the man of action.
Q: We are told of the bliss of non-duality.
M: Such bliss is more of the nature of a great peace. Pleasure and pain are the
fruits of actions --
righteous and unrighteous.
Q: What makes the difference?
M: The difference is between giving and grasping. Whatever the way of approach,
in the end all
becomes one.
Q: If there be no difference in the goal, why discriminate between various appro
aches?
M: Let each act according to his nature. The ultimate purpose will be served in
any case. All your
discriminations and classifications are quite all right, but they do not exist i
n my case. As the
description of a dream may be detailed and accurate, though without having any f
oundation, so
does your pattern fit nothing but your own assumptions. You begin with an idea a
nd you end with
the same idea under a different garb.
Q: How do you see things?
M: One and all are the same to me. The same consciousness (chit) appears as bein
g (sat) and as
bliss (ananda): Chit in movement is Ananda; Chit motionless is being.
Q: Still you are making a distinction between motion and motionlessness.
M: Non-distinction speaks in silence. Words carry distinctions. The unmanifested
(nirguna) has no
name, all names refer to the manifested (saguna). It is useless to struggle with
words to express
what is beyond words. Consciousness (chidananda) is spirit (purusha), consciousn
ess is matter
(prakriti). Imperfect spirit is matter, perfect matter is spirit. In the beginni
ng as in the end, all is one.
All division is in the mind (chitta); there is none in reality (chit). Movement
and rest are states of
mind and cannot be without their opposites. By itself nothing moves, nothing res
ts. It is a grievous
mistake to attribute to mental constructs absolute existence. Nothing exists by
itself.
Q: You seem to identify rest with the Supreme State?
M: There is rest as a state of mind (chidaram) and there is rest as a state of b
eing (atmaram). The
former comes and goes, while the true rest is the very heart of action. Unfortun
ately, language is a
mental tool and works only in opposites.
Q: As a witness, you are working or at rest?
M: Witnessing is an experience and rest is freedom from experience.
Q: Can't they co-exist, as the tumult of the waves and the quiet of the deep co-
exist in the ocean.
M: Beyond the mind there is no such thing as experience. Experience is a dual st
ate. You cannot
talk of reality as an experience. Once this is understood, you will no longer lo
ok for being and
becoming as separate and opposite. In reality they are one and inseparable, like
roots and
branches of the same tree. Both can exist only in the light of consciousness, wh
ich again, arises in
the wake of the sense 'I am'. This is the primary fact. If you miss it, you miss
all.
Q: Is the sense of being a product of experience only? The great saying (Mahavak
ya) tat-sat is it a
mere mode of mentation?
M: Whatever is spoken is speech only. Whatever is thought is thought only. The r
eal meaning is
unexplainable, though experienceable. The Mahavakya is true, but your ideas are
false, for all ideas
(kalpana) are false.
Q: Is the conviction: 'I am That' false?
M: Of course. Conviction is a mental state. In 'That' there is no 'I am'. With t
he sense 'I am'
emerging, 'That' is obscured, as with the sun rising the stars are wiped out. Bu
t as with the sun
comes light, so with the sense of self comes bliss (chidananda). The cause of bl
iss is sought in the
'not--I' and thus the bondage begins.
Q: In your daily life are you always conscious of your real state?
M: Neither conscious, nor unconscious. I do not need convictions. I live on cour
age. Courage is my
essence, which is love of life. I am free of memories and anticipations, unconce
rned with what I am
and what I am not. I am not addicted to selfdescriptions,
soham and brahmasmi ('I am He', 'I am
the Supreme') are of no use to me, I have the courage to be as nothing and to se
e the world as it is:
nothing. It sounds simple, just try it!
Q: But what gives you courage?
M: How perverted are your views! Need courage be given? Your question implies th
at anxiety is
the normal state and courage is abnormal. It is the other way round. Anxiety and
hope are born of
imagination -- I am free of both. I am simple being and I need nothing to rest o
n.
Q: Unless you know yourself, of what use is your being to you? To be happy with
what you are,
you must know what you are.
M: Being shines as knowing, knowing is warm in love. It is all one. You imagine
separations and
trouble yourself with questions. Don't concern yourself overmuch with formulatio
ns. Pure being
cannot be described.
Q: Unless a thing is knowable and enjoyable, it is of no use to me. It must beco
me a part of my
experience, first of all.
M: You are dragging down reality to the level of experience. How can reality dep
end on
experience, when it is the very ground (adhar) of experience. Reality is in the
very fact of
experience, not in its nature. Experience is, after all, a state of mind, while
being is definitely not a
state of mind.
Q: Again I am confused! Is being separate from knowing?
M: The separation is an appearance. Just as the dream is not apart from the drea
mer, so is
knowing not apart from being. The dream is the dreamer, the knowledge is the kno
wer, the
distinction is merely verbal.
Q: I can see now that sat and chit are one. But what about bliss (ananda)? Being
and
consciousness are always present together, but bliss flashes only occasionally.
M: The undisturbed state of being is bliss; the disturbed state is what appears
as the world. In non-
duality there is bliss; in duality -- experience. What comes and goes is experie
nce with its duality of
pain and pleasure. Bliss is not to be known. One is always bliss, but never blis
sful. Bliss is not an
attribute.
Q: I have another question to ask: Some Yogis attain their goal, but it is of no
use to others. They
do not know, or are not able to share. Those who can share out what they have, i
nitiate others.
Where lies the difference?
M: There is no difference. Your approach is wrong. There are no others to help.
A rich man, when
he hands over his entire fortune to his family, has not a coin left to give a be
ggar. So is the wise
man (jnani) stripped of all his powers and possessions. Nothing, literally nothi
ng, can be said about
him. He cannot help anybody for he is everybody. He is the poor and also his pov
erty, the thief and
also his thievery. How can he be said to help, when he is not apart? Who thinks
of himself as
separate from the world, let him help the world.
Q: Still, there is duality, there is sorrow, there is need of help. By denouncin
g it as mere dream
nothing is achieved.
M: The only thing that can help is to wake up from the dream.
Q: An awakener is needed.
M: Who again is in the dream. The awakener signifies the beginning of the end. T
here are no
eternal dreams.
Q: Even when it is beginningless?
M: Everything begins with you. What else is beginningless?
Q: I began at birth.
M: That is what you are told. Is it so? Did you see yourself beginning?
Q: I began just now. All else is memory.
M: Quite right. The beginningless begins forever. In the same way, I give eterna
lly, because I have
nothing. To be nothing, to have nothing, to keep nothing for oneself is the grea
test gift, the highest
generosity.
Q: Is there no self-concern left?
M: Of course I am self-concerned, but the self is all. In practice it takes the
shape of goodwill,
unfailing and universal. You may call it love, all-pervading, all-redeeming. Suc
h love is supremely
active -- without the sense of doing.
28. All Suffering is Born of Desire
Questioner: I come from a far off country. I had some inner experiences on my ow
n and I would
like to compare notes. Maharaj: By all means. Do you know yourself?
Q: I know that I am not the body. Nor am I the mind.
M: What makes you say so?
Q: I do not feel I am in the body. I seem to be all over the place everywhere. A
s to the mind, I can
switch it on and off, so to say. This makes me feel I am not the mind.
M: When you feel yourself everywhere in the world, do you remain separate from t
he world? Or,
are you the world?
Q: Both. Sometimes I feel myself to be neither mind nor body, but one single all
-seeing eye. When
I go deeper into it, I find myself to be all I see and the world and myself beco
me one.
M: Very well. What about desires? Do you have any?
Q: Yes, they come, short and superficial.
M: And what do you do about them?
Q: What can I do? They come, they go. l look at them. Sometimes I see my body an
d my mind
engaged in fulfilling them.
M: Whose desires are being fulfilled?
Q: They are a part of the world in which I live. They are just as trees and clou
ds are there.
M: Are they not a sign of some imperfection?
Q: Why should they be? They are as they are, and I am as I am. How can the appea
rance and
disappearance of desires affect me? Of course, they affect the shape and content
of the mind.
M: Very well. What is your work?
Q: I am a probation officer.
M: What does it mean?
Q: Juvenile offenders are let off on probation and there are special officers to
watch their
behaviour and to help them get training and find work.
M: Must you work?
Q: Who works? Work happens to take place.
M: Do you need to work?
Q: I need it for the sake of money. I like it, because it puts me in touch with
living beings.
M: What do you need them for?
Q: They may need me and it is their destinies that made me take up this work. It
is one life, after
all.
M: How did you come to your present state?
Q: Sri Ramana Maharshi's teachings have put me on my way. Then I met one Douglas
Harding
who helped me by showing me how to work on the 'Who am I ?'
M: Was it sudden or gradual?
Q: It was quite sudden. Like something quite forgotten, coming back into one's m
ind. Or, like a
sudden flash of understanding. 'How simple', I said, 'How simple; I'm not what I
thought I am! I'm
neither the perceived nor the perceiver; I'm the perceiving only'.
M: Not even the perceiving, but that which makes all this possible.
Q: What is love?
M: When the sense of distinction and separation is absent, you may call it love.
Q: Why so much stress on love between man and woman?
M: Because the element of happiness in it is so prominent.
Q: Is it not so in all love?
M: Not necessarily. Love may cause pain. You call it then compassion.
Q: What is happiness?
M: Harmony between the inner and the outer is happiness. On the other hand, self
-identification
with the outer causes is suffering.
Q. How does self-identification happen?
M: The self by its nature knows itself only. For lack of experience whatever it
perceives it takes to
be itself. Battered, it learns to look out (viveka) and to live alone (vairagya)
. When right behaviour
(uparati), becomes normal, a powerful inner urge (mukmukshutva) makes it seek it
s source. The
candle of the body is lighted and all becomes clear and bright.
Q: What is the real cause of suffering?
M: Self-identification with the limited (vyaktitva). Sensations as such, however
strong, do not cause
suffering. It is the mind bewildered by wrong ideas, addicted to thinking: 'I am
this' 'I am that', that
fears loss and craves gain and suffers when frustrated.
Q: A friend of mine used to have horrible dreams night after night. Going to sle
ep would terrorise
him. Nothing could help him.
M: Company of the truly good (satsang) would help him.
Q: Life itself is a nightmare.
M: Noble friendship (satsang) is the supreme remedy for all ills, physical and m
ental.
Q: Generally one cannot find such friendship.
M: Seek within. Your own self is your best friend.
Q: Why is life so full of contradictions?
M: It serves to break down mental pride. We must realise how poor and powerless
we are. As long
as we delude ourselves by what we imagine ourselves to be, to know, to have, to
do, we are in a
sad plight indeed. Only in complete self-negation there is a chance to discover
our real being.
Q: Why so much stress on self-negation?
M: As much as on self-realisation. The false self must be abandoned before the r
eal self can be
found.
Q: The self you choose to call false is to me most distressingly real. It is the
only self I know. What
you call the real self is a mere concept, a way of speaking, a creature of the m
ind, an attractive
ghost. My daily self is not a beauty, I admit, but it is my own and only self. Y
ou say I am, or have,
another self. Do you see it -- is it a reality to you, or do you want me to beli
eve what you yourself
don't see?
M: Don't jump to conclusions rashly. The concrete need not be the real, the conc
eived need not be
false. Perceptions based on sensations and shaped by memory imply a perceiver, w
hose nature
you never cared to examine. Give it your full attention, examine it with loving
care and you will
discover heights and depths of being which you did not dream of, engrossed as yo
u are in your
puny image of yourself.
Q: I must be in the right mood to examine myself fruitfully.
M: You must be serious, intent, truly interested. You must be full of goodwill f
or yourself.
Q: I am selfish all right.
M. You are not. You are all the time destroying yourself, and your own, by servi
ng strange gods,
inimical and false. By all means be selfish -- the right way. Wish yourself well
, labour at what is
good for you. Destroy all that stands between you and happiness. Be all -- love
all -- be happy --
make happy. No happiness is greater.
Q: Why is there so much suffering in love?
M: All suffering is born of desire. True love is never frustrated. How can the s
ense of unity be
frustrated? What can be frustrated is the desire for expression. Such desire is
of the mind. As with
all things mental, frustration is inevitable.
Q: What is the place of sex in love?
M: Love is a state of being. Sex is energy. Love is wise, sex is blind. Once the
true nature of love
and sex is understood there will be no conflict or confusion.
Q: There is so much sex without love.
M: Without love all is evil. Life itself without love is evil.
Q: What can make me love?
M: You are love itself -- when you are not afraid.
29. Living is Life s only Purpose
Questioner: What does it mean to fail in Yoga? Who is a failure in Yoga (yoga bh
rashta)?
Maharaj: It is only a question of incompletion. He who could not complete his Yo
ga for some
reason is called failed in Yoga. Such failure is only temporary, for there can b
e no defeat in Yoga.
This battle is always won, for it is a battle between the true and the false. Th
e false has no chance.
Q: Who fails? The person (vyakti) or the self (vyakta)?
M: The question is wrongly put. There is no question of failure, neither in the
short run nor in the
long. It is like travelling a long and arduous road in an unknown country. Of al
l the innumerable
steps there is only the last which brings you to your destination. Yet you will
not consider all
previous steps as failures. Each brought you nearer to your goal, even when you
had to turn back to
by-pass an obstacle. In reality each step brings you to your goal, because to be
always on the
move, learning, discovering, unfolding, is your eternal destiny. Living is life'
s only purpose. The self
does not identify itself with success or failure -- the very idea of becoming th
is or that is unthinkable.
The self understands that success and failure are relative and related, that the
y are the very warp
and weft of life. Learn from both and go beyond. If you have not learnt, repeat.
Q: What am I to learn?
M: To live without self-concern. For this you must know your own true being (swa
rupa) as
indomitable, fearless, ever victorious. Once you know with absolute certainty th
at nothing can
trouble you but your own imagination, you come to disregard your desires and fea
rs, concepts and
ideas and live by truth alone.
Q: What may be the reason that some people succeed and others fail in Yoga? Is i
t destiny or
character, or just accident?
M: Nobody ever fails in Yoga. It is all a matter of the rate of progress. It is
slow in the beginning and
rapid in the end. When one is fully matured, realisation is explosive. It takes
place spontaneously, or
at the slightest hint. The quick is not better than the slow. Slow ripening and
rapid flowering
alternate. Both are natural and right.
Yet, all this is so in the mind only. As I see it, there is really nothing of th
e kind. In the great mirror of
consciousness images arise and disappear and only memory gives them continuity.
And memory is
material -- destructible, perishable, transient. On such flimsy foundations we b
uild a sense of
personal existence -- vague, intermittent, dreamlike. This vague persuasion: 'I-
am-so-and-so'
obscures the changeless state of pure awareness and makes us believe that we are
born to suffer
and to die.
Q: Just as a child cannot help growing, so does a man, compelled by nature, make
progress. Why
exert oneself? Where is the need of Yoga?
M: There is progress all the time. Everything contributes to progress. But this
is the progress of
ignorance. The circles of ignorance may be ever widening, yet it remains a bonda
ge all the same. In
due course a Guru appears to teach and inspire us to practise Yoga and a ripenin
g takes place as a
result of which the immemorial night of ignorance dissolves before the rising su
n of wisdom. But in
reality nothing happened. The sun is always there, there is no night to it; the
mind blinded by the 'I
am the body' idea spins out endlessly its thread of illusion.
Q: If all is a part of a natural process, where is the need of effort?
M: Even effort is a part of it. When ignorance becomes obstinate and hard and th
e character gets
perverted, effort and the pain of it become inevitable. In complete obedience to
nature there is no
effort. The seed of spiritual life grows in silence and in darkness until its ap
pointed hour.
Q: We come across some great people, who, in their old age, become childish, pet
ty, quarrelsome
and spiteful. How could they deteriorate so much?
M: They were not perfect Yogis, having their bodies under complete control. Or,
they might not
have cared to protect their bodies from the natural decay. One must not draw con
clusions without
understanding all the factors. Above all, one must not make judgements of inferi
ority or superiority.
Youthfulness is more a matter of vitality (prana) than of wisdom (jnana) .
Q: One may get old, but why should one lose all alertness and discrimination?
M: Consciousness and unconsciousness, while in the body depend on the condition
of the brain.
But the self is beyond both, beyond the brain, beyond the mind. The fault of the
instrument is no
reflection on its user.
Q: I was told that a realised man will never do anything unseemly. He will alway
s behave in an
exemplary way.
M: Who sets the example? Why should a liberated man necessarily follow conventio
ns? The
moment he becomes predictable, he cannot be free. His freedom lies in his being
free to fulfil the
need of the moment, to obey the necessity of the situation. Freedom to do what o
ne likes is really
bondage, while being free to do what one must, what is right, is real freedom.
Q: Still there must be some way of making out who has realised and who has not.
If one is
indistinguishable from the other, of what use is he?
M: He who knows himself has no doubts about it. Nor does he care whether others
recognise his
state or not. Rare is the realised man who discloses his realisation and fortuna
te are those who
have met him, for he does it for their abiding welfare.
Q: When one looks round, one is appalled by the volume of unnecessary suffering
that is going
on. People who should be helped are not getting help. Imagine a big hospital war
d full of incurables,
tossing and moaning. Were you given the authority to kill them all and end their
torture, would you
not do so?
M: I would leave it to them to decide.
Q: But if their destiny is to suffer? How can you interfere with destiny?
M: Their destiny is what happens. There is no thwarting of destiny. You mean to
say everybody's
life is totally determined at his birth? What a strange idea! Were it so, the po
wer that determines
would see to it that nobody should suffer.
Q: What about cause and effect?
M: Each moment contains the whole of the past and creates the whole of the futur
e.
Q: But past and future exist?
M: In the mind only. Time is in the mind, space is in the mind. The law of cause
and effect is also a
way of thinking. In reality all is here and now and all is one. Multiplicity and
diversity are in the mind
only.
Q: Still, you are in favour of relieving suffering, even through destruction of
the incurably diseased
body.
M: Again, you look from outside while I look from within. I do not see a suffere
r, I am the sufferer. I
know him from within and do what is right spontaneously and effortlessly. I foll
ow no rules nor lay
down rules. I flow with life -- faithfully and irresistibly.
Q: Still you seem to be a very practical man in full control of your immediate s
urroundings.
M: What else do you expect me to be? A misfit?
Q: Yet you cannot help another much.
M: Surely, I can help. You too can help. Everybody can help. But the suffering i
s all the time
recreated. Man alone can destroy in himself the roots of pain. Others can only h
elp with the pain,
but not with its cause, which is the abysmal stupidity of mankind.
Q: Will this stupidity ever come to an end?
M: In man -- of course. Any moment. In humanity -- as we know it -- after very m
any years. In
creation -- never, for creation itself is rooted in ignorance; matter itself is
ignorance. Not to know,
and not to know that one does not know, is the cause of endless suffering.
Q: We are told of the great avatars, the saviours of the world.
M: Did they save? They have come and gone -- and the world plods on. Of course,
they did a lot
and opened new dimensions in the human mind. But to talk of saving the world is
an exaggeration.
Q: Is there no salvation for the world?
M: Which world do you want to save? The world of your own projection? Save it yo
urself. My
world? Show me my world and I shall deal with it. I am not aware of any world se
parate from
myself, which I am free to save or not to save. What business have you with savi
ng the world, when
all the world needs is to be saved from you? Get out of the picture and see whet
her there is
anything left to save.
Q: You seem to stress the point that without you your world would not have exist
ed and therefore
the only thing you can do for it is to wind up the show. This is not a way out.
Even if the world were
of my own creation, this knowledge does not save it. It only explains it. The qu
estion remains: why
did I create such a wretched world and what can I do to change it? You seem to s
ay: forget it all and
admire your own glory. Surely, you don't mean it. The description of a disease a
nd its causes does
not cure it. What we need is the right medicine.
M: The description and causation are the remedy for a disease caused by obtusene
ss and
stupidity. Just like a deficiency disease is cured through the supply of the mis
sing factor, so are the
diseases of living cured by a good dose of intelligent detachment. (viveka-vaira
gya).
Q: You cannot save the world by preaching counsels of perfection. People are as
they are. Must
they suffer?
M: As long as they are as they are, there is no escape from suffering. Remove th
e sense of
separateness and there will be no conflict.
Q: A message in print may be paper and ink only. It is the text that matters. By
analysing the world
into elements and qualities we miss the most important -- its meaning. Your redu
ction of everything
to dream disregards the difference between the dream of an insect and the dream
of a poet. All is
dream, granted. But not all are equal.
M: The dreams are not equal, but the dreamer is one. I am the insect. I am the p
oet -- in dream.
But in reality I am neither. I am beyond all dreams. I am the light in which all
dreams appear and
disappear. I am both inside and outside the dream. Just as a man having headache
knows the ache
and also knows that he is not the ache, so do I know the dream, myself dreaming
and myself not
dreaming -- all at the same time. I am what I am before, during and after the dr
eam. But what I see
in dream, l am not.
Q: It is all a matter of imagination. One imagines that one is dreaming, another
imagines one is not
dreaming. Are not both the same?
M: The same and not the same. Not dreaming, as an interval between two dreams, i
s of course, a
Part of dreaming. Not dreaming as a steady hold on, and timeless abidance in rea
lity has nothing to
do with dreaming. In that sense I never dream, nor ever shall.
Q: If both dream and escape from dream are imaginings, what is the way out?
M: There is no need of a way out! Don't you see that a way out is also a part of
the dream? All you
have to do is to see the dream as dream.
Q: If I start the practice of dismissing everything as a dream where will it lea
d me?
M: Wherever it leads you, it will be a dream. The very idea of going beyond the
dream is illusory.
Why go anywhere? Just realise that you are dreaming a dream you call the world,
and stop looking
for ways out. The dream is not your problem. Your problem is that you like one p
art of your dream
and not another. Love all, or none of it, and stop complaining. When you have se
en the dream as a
dream, you have done all that needs be done.
Q: Is dreaming caused by thinking?
M: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state free from ideation (nirvikalpa sa
madhi) nothing is
perceived. The root idea is: 'I am'. It shatters the state of pure consciousness
and is followed by the
innumerable sensations and perceptions, feeling and ideas which in their totalit
y constitute God and
His world. The 'I am' remains as the witness, but it is by the will of God that
everything happens.
Q: Why not by my will?
M: Again you have split yourself -- into God and witness. Both are one.
30. You are Free NOW
Questioner: There are so many theories about the nature of man and universe. The
creation
theory, the illusion theory, the dream theory -- any number of them. Which is tr
ue?
Maharaj: All are true, all are false. You can pick up whichever you like best.
Q: You seem to favour the dream theory.
M: These are all ways of putting words together. Some favour one way, some favou
r another.
Theories are neither right nor wrong. They are attempts at explaining the inexpl
icable. It is not the
theory that matters, but the way it is being tested. It is the testing of the th
eory that makes it fruitful.
Experiment with any theory you like -- if you are truly earnest and honest, the
attainment of reality
will be yours. As a living being you are caught in an untenable and painful situ
ation and you are
seeking a way out. You are being offered several plans of your prison, none quit
e true. But they all
are of some value, only if you are in dead earnest. It is the earnestness that l
iberates and not the
theory.
Q: Theory may be misleading and earnestness -- blind.
M: Your sincerity will guide you. Devotion to the goal of freedom and perfection
will make you
abandon all theories and systems and live by wisdom, intelligence and active lov
e. Theories may be
good as starting points, but must be abandoned, the sooner -- the better.
Q: There is a Yogi who says that for realisation the eightfold Yoga is not neces
sary; that will-power
alone will do. It is enough to concentrate on the goal with full confidence in t
he power of pure will to
obtain effortlessly and quickly what others take decades to achieve.
M: Concentration, full confidence, pure will! With such assets no wonder one att
ains in no time.
This Yoga of will is all right for the mature seeker, who has shed all desires b
ut one. After all, what
is will but steadiness of heart and mind. Given such steadfastness all can be ac
hieved.
Q: I feel the Yogi did not mean mere steadiness of purpose, resulting in ceasele
ss pursuit and
application. He meant that with will fixed on the goal no pursuit or application
are needed. The mere
fact of willing attracts its object.
M: Whatever name you give it: will, or steady purpose, or onepointedness
of the mind, you come
back to earnestness, sincerity, honesty. When you are in dead earnest, you bend
every incident,
every second of your life to your purpose. You do not waste time and energy on o
ther things. You
are totally dedicated, call it will, or love, or plain honesty. We are complex b
eings, at war within and
without. We contradict ourselves all the time, undoing today the work of yesterd
ay. No wonder we
are stuck. A little of integrity would make a lot of difference.
Q: What is more powerful, desire or destiny?
M: Desire shapes destiny.
Q: And destiny shapes desire. My desires are conditioned by heredity and circums
tances, by
opportunities and accidents, by what we call destiny.
M: Yes, you may say so.
Q: At what point am I free to desire what I want to desire?
M: You are free now. What is it that you want to desire? Desire it.
Q: Of course I am free to desire, but I am not free to act on my desire. Other u
rges will lead me
astray. My desire is not strong enough, even if it has my approval. Other desire
s, which I
disapprove of are stronger.
M: Maybe you are deceiving yourself. Maybe you are giving expression to your rea
l desires and the
ones you approve of are kept on the surface for the sake of respectability.
Q: It may be as you say, but this is another theory. The fact is that I do not f
eel free to desire what
I think I should, and when I seem to desire rightly, I do not act accordingly.
M: It is all due to weakness of the mind and disintegration of the brain. Collec
t and strengthen your
mind and you will find that your thoughts and feelings, words and actions will a
lign themselves in
the direction of your will.
Q: Again a counsel of perfection! To integrate and strengthen the mind is not an
easy task! How
does one begin?
M: You can start only from where you are. You are here and now, you cannot get o
ut of here and
now.
Q: But what can I do here and now?
M: You can be aware of your being -- here and now.
Q: That is all?
M: That is all. There is nothing more to it.
Q: All my waking and dreaming I am conscious of myself. It does not help me much
.
M: You were aware of thinking, feeling, doing. You were not aware of your being.
Q: What is the new factor you want me to bring in?
M: The attitude of pure witnessing, of watching the events without taking part i
n them.
Q: What will it do to me?
M: Weak-mindedness is due to lack of intelligence, of understanding, which again
is the result of
non-awareness. By striving for awareness you bring your mind together and streng
then it.
Q: I may be fully aware of what is going on, and yet quite unable to influence i
t in any way.
M: You are mistaken. What is going on is a projection of your mind. A weak mind
cannot control its
own projections. Be aware, therefore, of your mind and its projections. You cann
ot control what you
do not know. On the other hand, knowledge gives power. In practice it is very si
mple. To control
yourself -- know yourself.
Q: Maybe, I can come to control myself, but shall I be able to deal with the cha
os in the world?
M: There is no chaos in the world, except the chaos which your mind creates. It
is self-created in
the sense that at its very centre is the false idea of oneself as a thing differ
ent and separate from
other things. In reality you are not a thing, nor separate. You are the infinite
potentiality; the
inexhaustible possibility. Because you are, all can be. The universe is but a pa
rtial manifestation of
your limitless capacity to become.
Q: I find that I am totally motivated by desire for pleasure and fear of pain. H
owever noble my
desire and justified my fear, pleasure and pain are the two poles between which
my life oscillates.
M: Go to the source of both pain and pleasure, of desire and fear. Observe, inve
stigate, try to
understand.
Q: Desire and fear both are feelings caused by physical or mental factors. They
are there, easily
observable. But why are they there? Why do l desire pleasure and fear pain?
M: Pleasure and pain are states of mind. As long as you think you are the mind,
or rather, the body-
mind, you are bound to raise such questions.
Q: And when I realise that I am not the body, shall I be free from desire and fe
ar?
M: As long as there is a body and a mind to protect the body, attractions and re
pulsions will
operate. They will be there, out in the field of events, but will not concern yo
u. The focus of your
attention will be elsewhere. You will not be distracted.
Q: Still they will be there. Will one never be completely free?
M: You are completely free even now. What you call destiny (karma) is but the re
sult of your own
will to live. How strong is this will you can judge by the universal horror of d
eath.
Q: People die willingly quite often.
M: Only when the alternative is worse than death. But such readiness to die flow
s from the same
source as the will to live, a source deeper even than life itself. To be a livin
g being is not the
ultimate state; there is something beyond, much more wonderful, which is neither
being nor non-
being, neither living nor notliving.
It is a state of pure awareness, beyond the limitations of space
and time. Once the illusion that the body-mind is oneself is abandoned, death lo
ses its terror, it
becomes a part of living.
31. Do not Undervalue Attention
Questioner: As I look at you, you seem to be a poor man with very limited means,
facing all the
problems of poverty and old age, like everybody else.
Maharaj: Were I very rich, what difference would it make? I am what I am. What e
lse can I be? I am
neither rich nor poor, I am myself.
Q: Yet, you are experiencing pleasure and pain.
M: I am experiencing these in consciousness, but I am neither consciousness, nor
its content.
Q: You say that in our real being we are all equal. How is it that your experien
ce is so different
from ours.
M: My actual experience is not different. It is my evaluation and attitude that
differ. I see the same
world as you do, but not the same way. There is nothing mysterious about it. Eve
rybody sees the
world through the idea he has of himself. As you think yourself to be, so you th
ink the world to be. If
you imagine yourself as separate from the world, the world will appear as separa
te from you and
you will experience desire and fear. I do not see the world as separate from me
and so there is
nothing for me to desire, or fear.
Q: You are a point of light in the world. Not everybody is.
M: There is absolutely no difference between me and others, except in my knowing
myself as I am.
I am all. I know it for certain and you do not.
Q: So we differ all the same.
M: No, we do not. The difference is only in the mind and temporary. I was like y
ou, you will be like
me.
Q: God made a most diversified world.
M: The diversity is in you only. See yourself as you are and you will see the wo
rld as it is -- a single
block of reality, indivisible, indescribable. Your own creative power projects u
pon it a picture and all
your questions refer to the picture.
Q: A Tibetan Yogi wrote that God creates the world for a purpose and runs it acc
ording to a plan.
The purpose is good and the plan is most wise.
M: All this is temporary, while I am dealing with the eternal. Gods and their un
iverses come and go,
avatars follow each other in endless succession, and in the end we are back at t
he source. I talk
only of the timeless source of all the gods with all their universes, past, pres
ent and future.
Q: Do you know them all? Do you remember them?
M: When a few boys stage a play for fun, what is there to see and to remember?
Q: Why is half humanity male and half female?
M: For their happiness. The impersonal (avyakta) becomes the personal (vyakta) f
or the sake of
happiness in relationship. By the grace of my Guru I can look with equal eye on
the impersonal as
well as the personal. Both are one to me. In life the personal merges in the imp
ersonal.
Q: How does the personal emerge from the impersonal?
M: The two are but aspects of one Reality. It is not correct to talk of one prec
eding the other. All
these ideas belong to the waking state.
Q: What brings in the waking state?
M: At the root of all creation lies desire. Desire and imagination foster and re
inforce each other.
The fourth state (turiya) is a state of pure witnessing, detached awareness, pas
sionless and
wordless. It is like space, unaffected by whatever it contains. Bodily and menta
l troubles do not
reach it -- they are outside, 'there', while the witness is always 'here'.
Q: What is real, the subjective or the objective? I am inclined to believe that
the objective universe
is the real one and my subjective psyche is changeful and transient. You seem to
claim reality for
your inner, subjective states and deny all reality to the concrete, external wor
ld.
M: Both the subjective and the objective are changeful and transient. There is n
othing real about
them. Find the permanent in the fleeting, the one constant factor in every exper
ience.
Q: What is this constant factor?
M: My giving it various names and pointing it out in many ways will not help you
much, unless you
have the capacity to see. A dim-sighted man will not see the parrot on the branc
h of a tree, however
much you may prompt him to look. At best he will see your pointed finger. First
purify your vision,
learn to see instead of staring, and you will perceive the parrot. Also you must
be eager to see. You
need both clarity and earnestness for self-knowledge. You need maturity of heart
and mind, which
comes through earnest application in daily life of whatever little you have unde
rstood. There is no
such thing as compromise in Yoga.
If you want to sin, sin wholeheartedly and openly. Sins too have their lessons t
o teach the earnest
sinner, as virtues -- the earnest saint. It is the mixing up the two that is so
disastrous. Nothing can
block you so effectively as compromise, for it shows lack of earnestness, withou
t which nothing can
be done.
Q: I approve of austerity, but in practice I am all for luxury. The habit of cha
sing pleasure and
shunning pain is so ingrained in me, that all my good intentions, quite alive on
the level of theory,
find no roots in my day-to-day life. To tell me that I am not honest does not he
lp me, for I just do not
know how to make myself honest.
M: You are neither honest nor dishonest -- giving names to mental states is good
only for
expressing your approval or disapproval. The problem is not yours -- it is your
mind's only. Begin by
disassociating yourself from your mind. Resolutely remind yourself that you are
not the mind and
that its problems are not yours.
Q: I may go on telling myself: 'I am not the mind, I am not concerned with its p
roblems,' but the
mind remains and its problems remain just as they were. Now, please do not tell
me that it is
because I am not earnest enough and I should be more earnest! I know it and admi
t it and only ask
you -- how is it done?
M: At least you are asking! Good enough, for a start. Go on pondering, wondering
, being anxious
to find a way. Be conscious of yourself, watch your mind, give it your full atte
ntion. Don't look for
quick results; there may be none within your noticing. Unknown to you, your psyc
he will undergo a
change, there will be more clarity in your thinking, charity in your feeling, pu
rity in your behaviour.
You need not aim at these -- you will witness the change all the same. For, what
you are now is the
result of inattention and what you become will be the fruit of attention.
Q: Why should mere attention make all the difference?
M: So far your life was dark and restless (tamas and rajas). Attention, alertnes
s, awareness, clarity,
liveliness, vitality, are all manifestations of integrity, oneness with your tru
e nature (sattva). It is in
the nature of sattva to reconcile and neutralise tamas and rajas and rebuild the
personality in
accordance with the true nature of the self. Sattva is the faithful servant of t
he self; ever attentive
and obedient.
Q: And I shall come to it through mere attention?
M: Do not undervalue attention. It means interest and also love. To know, to do,
to discover, or to
create you must give your heart to it -- which means attention. All the blessing
s flow from it.
Q: You advise us to concentrate on 'I am'. Is this too a form of attention?
M: What else? Give your undivided attention to the most important in your life -
- yourself. Of your
personal universe you are the centre -- without knowing the centre what else can
you know?
Q: But how can I know myself? To know myself I must be away from myself. But wha
t is away
from myself cannot be myself. So, it looks that I cannot know myself, only what
I take to be myself.
M: Quite right. As you cannot see your face, but only its reflection in the mirr
or, so you can know
only your image reflected in the stainless mirror of pure awareness.
Q: How am I to get such stainless mirror?
M: Obviously, by removing stains. See the stains and remove them. The ancient te
aching is fully
valid.
Q: What is seeing and what is removing?
M: The nature of the perfect mirror is such that you cannot see it. Whatever you
can see is bound
to be a stain. Turn away from it, give it up, know it as unwanted.
Q: All perceivables, are they stains?
M: All are stains.
Q: The entire world is a stain.
M: Yes, it is.
Q: How awful! So, the universe is of no value?
M: It is of tremendous value. By going beyond it you realise yourself.
Q: But why did it come into being in the first instance?
M: You will know it when it ends.
Q: Will it ever end?
M: Yes, for you.
Q: When did it begin?
M: Now.
Q: When will it end?
M: Now.
Q: It does not end now?
M: You don't let it.
Q: I want to let it.
M: You don't. All your life is connected with it. Your past and future, your des
ires and fears, all have
their roots in the world. Without the world where are you, who are you?
Q: But that is exactly what I came to find out.
M: . And I am telling you exactly this: find a foothold beyond and all will be c
lear and easy.
32. Life is the Supreme Guru
Questioner: We two came from far off countries; one of us is British, the other
American. The world
in which we were born is falling apart and, being young, we are concerned. The o
ld people hope
they will die their own death, but the young have no such hope. Some of us may r
efuse to kill, but
none can refuse to be killed. Can we hope to set the world right within our life
time?
Maharaj: What makes you think that the world is going to perish?
Q: The instruments of destruction have become unbelievably potent. Also, our ver
y productivity
has become destructive of nature and of our cultural and social values.
M: You are talking of the present times. It has been so everywhere and always. B
ut the distressing
situation may be temporary and local. Once over, it will be forgotten.
Q: The scale of the impending catastrophe is unbelievably big. We live in the mi
dst of an explosion.
M: Each man suffers alone and dies alone. Numbers are irrelevant. There is as mu
ch death when
a million die as when one perishes.
Q: Nature kills by the millions, but this does not frighten me. There may be tra
gedy or mystery in it,
but no cruelty. What horrifies me is man-made suffering, destruction and desolat
ion. Nature is
magnificent in its doings and undoings. But there is meanness and madness in the
acts of man.
M: Right. So, it is not suffering and death that are your problem, but the meann
ess and madness at
their root. Is not meanness also a form of madness? And is not madness the misus
e of the mind?
Humanity's problem lies in this misuse of the mind only. All the treasures of na
ture and spirit are
open to man who will use his mind rightly.
Q: What is the right use of mind?
M: Fear and greed cause the misuse of the mind. The right use of mind is in the
service of love, of
life, of truth, of beauty.
Q: Easier said than done. Love of truth, of man, goodwill -- what luxury! We nee
d plenty of it to set
the world right, but who will provide?
M: You can spend an eternity looking elsewhere for truth and love, intelligence
and goodwill,
imploring God and man -- all in vain. You must begin in yourself, with yourself
-- this is the
inexorable law. You cannot change the image without changing the face. First rea
lise that your
world is only a reflection of yourself and stop finding fault with the reflectio
n. Attend to yourself, set
yourself right -- mentally and emotionally. The physical will follow automatical
ly. You talk so much of
reforms: economic, social, political. Leave alone the reforms and mind the refor
mer. What kind of
world can a man create who is stupid, greedy, heartless?
Q: If we have to wait for a change of heart, we shall have to wait indefinitely.
Yours is a counsel of
perfection, which is also a counsel of despair. When all are perfect, the world
will be perfect. What
useless truism!
M: I did not say it. I only said: You cannot change the world before changing yo
urself. I did not say
-- before changing everybody. It is neither necessary, nor possible to change ot
hers. But if you can
change yourself you will find that no other change is needed. To change the pict
ure you merely
change the film, you do not attack the cinema screen!
Q: How can you be so sure of yourself? How do you know that what you say is true
?
M: It is not of myself that I am sure, I am sure of you. All you need is to stop
searching outside what
can be found only within. Set your vision right before you operate. You are suff
ering from acute
misapprehension. Clarify your mind, purify your heart, sanctify your life -- thi
s is the quickest way to
a change of your world.
Q: So many saints and mystics lived and died. They did not change my world.
M: How could they? Your world is not theirs, nor is their yours.
Q: Surely there is a factual world common to all.
M: The world of things, of energy and matter? Even if there were such a common w
orld of things
and forces, it is not the world in which we live. Ours is a world of feelings an
d ideas, of attractions
and repulsions, of scales of values, of motives and incentives, a mental world a
ltogether.
Biologically we need very little, our problems are of a different order. Problem
s created by desires
and fears and wrong ideas can be solved only on the level of the mind. You must
conquer your own
mind and for this you must go beyond it.
Q: What does it mean to go beyond the mind.
M: You have gone beyond the body, haven't you? You do not closely follow your di
gestion,
circulation or elimination. These have become automatic. In the same way the min
d should work
automatically, without calling for attention. This will not happen unless the mi
nd works faultlessly.
We are, most of our time mind and body-conscious, because they constantly call f
or help. Pain and
suffering are only the body and the mind screaming for attention. To go beyond t
he body you must
be healthy: To go beyond the mind, you must have your mind in perfect order. You
cannot leave a
mess behind and go beyond. The mess will bog you up. 'Pick up your rubbish' seem
s to be the
universal law. And a just law too.
Q: Am I permitted to ask you how did you go beyond the mind?
M: By the grace of my Guru.
Q: What shape his grace took?
M: He told me what is true.
Q: What did he tell you?
M: He told me I am the Supreme Reality.
Q: What did you do about it?
M: I trusted him and remembered it.
Q: Is that all?
M: Yes, I remembered him; I remembered what he said.
Q: You mean to say that this was enough?
M: What more needs be done? It was quite a lot to remember the Guru and his word
s. My advice
to you is even less difficult than this -- just remember yourself. 'I am', is en
ough to heal your mind
and take you beyond. Just have some trust. I don't mislead you. Why should l? Do
I want anything
from you. I wish you well -- such is my nature. Why should I mislead you?
Commonsense too will tell you that to fulfil a desire you must keep your mind on
it. If you want to
know your true nature, you must have yourself in mind all the time, until the se
cret of your being
stands revealed.
Q: Why should self-remembrance bring one to self-realisation?
M: Because they are but two aspects of the same state. Selfremembrance
is in the mind, self-
realisation is beyond the mind. The image in the mirror is of the face beyond th
e mirror.
Q: Fair enough. But what is the purpose?
M: To help others, one must be beyond the need of help.
Q: All I want is to be happy.
M: Be happy to make happy.
Q: Let others take care of themselves.
M: Sir, you are not separate. The happiness you cannot share is spurious. Only t
he shareable is
truly desirable.
Q: Right. But do I need a Guru? What you tell me is simple and convincing. I sha
ll remember it.
This does not make you my Guru.
M: it is not the worship of a person that is crucial, but the steadiness and dep
th of your devotion to
the task. Life itself is the Supreme Guru; be attentive to its lessons and obedi
ent to its commands.
When you personalise their source, you have an outer Guru; when you take them fr
om life directly,
the Guru is within. Remember, wonder, ponder, live with it, love it, grow into i
t, grow with it, make it
your own -- the word of your Guru, outer or inner. Put in all and you will get a
ll. I was doing it. All my
time I was giving to my Guru and to what he told me.
Q: I am a writer by profession. Can you give me some advice, for me specifically
?
M: Writing is both a talent and a skill. Grow in talent and develop in skill. De
sire what is worth
desiring and desire it well. Just like you pick your way in a crowd, passing bet
ween people, so you
find your way between events, without missing your general direction. It is easy
, if you are earnest.
Q: So many times you mention the need of being earnest. But we are not men of si
ngle will. We
are congeries of desires and needs, instincts and promptings. They crawl over ea
ch other,
sometimes one, sometimes another dominating, but never for long.
M: There are no needs, desires only.
Q: To eat, to drink, to shelter one's body; to live?
M: The desire to live is the one fundamental desire. All else depends on it.
Q: We live, because we must.
M: We live, because we crave sensory existence.
Q: A thing so universal cannot be wrong.
M: Not wrong, of course. In its own place and time nothing is wrong. But when yo
u are concerned
with truth, with reality, you must question every thing, your very life. By asse
rting the necessity of
sensory and intellectual experience you narrow down your enquiry to search for c
omfort.
Q: I seek happiness, not comfort.
M: Beyond comfort of mind and body what happiness do you know?
Q: Is there any other?
M: Find out for yourself. Question every urge, hold no desire legitimate. Empty
of possession,
physical and mental, free of all self-concern, be open for discovery.
Q: It is a part of Indian spiritual tradition that mere living in the proximity
of a saint or sage is
conducive to liberation and no other means are needed. Why don't you organise an
Ashram so that
people could live near you?
M: The moment I create an institution I become its prisoner. As a matter of fact
I am available to all.
Common roof and food will not make people more welcome. 'Living near' does not m
ean breathing
the same air. It means trusting and obeying, not letting the good intentions of
the teacher go to
waste. Have your Guru always in your heart and remember his instructions -- this
is real abidance
with the true. Physical proximity is least important. Make your entire life an e
xpression of your faith
and love for your teacher -- this is real dwelling with the Guru.
33. Everything Happens by Itself
Questioner: Does a jnani die?
Maharaj: He is beyond life and death. What we take to be inevitable -- to be bor
n and to die --
appears to him but a way of expressing movement in the Immovable, change in the
changeless,
end in the endless. To the jnani it is obvious that nothing is born and nothing
dies, nothing lasts and
nothing changes, all is as it is -- timelessly.
Q: You say the jnani is beyond. Beyond what? Beyond knowledge?
M: Knowledge has its rising and setting. Consciousness comes into being and goes
out of being. It
is a matter of daily occurrence and observation. We all know that sometimes we a
re conscious and
sometimes not. When we are not conscious, it appears to us as a darkness or a bl
ank. But a jnani is
aware of himself as neither conscious nor unconscious, but purely aware, a witne
ss to the three
states of the mind and their contents.
Q: When does this witnessing begin?
M: To a jnani nothing has beginning or ending. As salt dissolves in water, so do
es everything
dissolve into pure being. Wisdom is eternally negating the unreal. To see the un
real is wisdom.
Beyond this lies the inexpressible.
Q: There is in me the conviction: 'I am the body' Granted, I am talking from unw
isdom. But the
state of feeling oneself the body, the body-mind, the mind-body, or even pure mi
nd -- when did it
begin?
M: You cannot speak of a beginning of consciousness. The very ideas of beginning
and time are
within consciousness. To talk meaningfully of the beginning of anything, you mus
t step out of it. And
the moment you step out, you realise that there is no such thing and never was.
There is only
reality, in which no thing' has any being on its own. Like waves are inseparable
from the ocean, so
is all existence rooted in being.
Q: The fact is that here and now I am asking you: when did the feeling 'I am the
body' arise? At my
birth? or this morning?
M: Now.
Q: But I remember having it yesterday too!
M: The memory of yesterday is now only.
Q: But surely I exist in time. I have a past and a future.
M: That is how you imagine -- now.
Q: There must have been a beginning.
M: Now.
Q: And what about ending?
M: What has no beginning cannot end.
Q: But I am conscious of my question.
M: A false question cannot be answered. It can only be seen as false.
Q: To me it is real.
M: When did it appear real to you? Now.
Q: Yes, it is quite real to me -- now.
M: What is real about your question? It is a state of mind. No state of mind can
be more real than
the mind itself. Is the mind real? It is but a collection of states, each of the
m transitory. How can a
succession of transitory states be considered real?
Q: Like beads on a string, events follow events -- for ever.
M: They are all strung on the basic idea: 'I am the body'. But even this is a me
ntal state and does
not last. It comes and goes like all other states. The illusion of being the bod
y-mind is there, only
because it is not investigated. Non-investigation is the thread on which all the
states of mind are
strung. It is like darkness in a closed room. It is there -- apparently. But whe
n the room is opened,
where does it go? It goes nowhere, because it was not there. All states of mind,
all names and
forms of existence are rooted in non-enquiry, non-investigation, in imagination
and credulity. It is
right to say 'I am', but to say 'I am this', 'I am that' is a sign of not enquir
ing, not examining, of
mental weakness or lethargy.
Q: If all is light, how did darkness arise? How can there be darkness in the mid
st of light?
M: There is no darkness in the midst of light. Self-forgetfulness is the darknes
s. When we are
absorbed in other things, in the not-self, we forget the self. There is nothing
unnatural about it. But,
why forget the self through excess of attachment? Wisdom lies in never forgettin
g the self as the
ever-present source of both the experiencer and his experience.
Q: In my present state the 'I am the body' idea comes spontaneously, while the '
I am pure being'
idea must be imposed on the mind as something true but not experienced.
M: Yes, sadhana (practice) consists in reminding oneself forcibly of one's pure
'being-ness', of not
being anything in particular, nor a sum of particulars, not even the totality of
all particulars, which
make up a universe. All exists in the mind, even the body is an integration in t
he mind of a vast
number of sensory perceptions, each perception also a mental state. If you say:
'I am the body',
show it.
Q: Here it is.
M: Only when you think of it. Both mind and body are intermittent states. The su
m total of these
flashes creates the illusion of existence. Enquire what is permanent in the tran
sient, real in the
unreal. This is sadhana.
Q: The fact is that I am thinking of myself as the body.
M: Think of yourself by all means. Only don't bring the idea of a body into the
picture. There is only
a stream of sensations, perceptions, memories and ideations. The body is an abst
raction, created
by our tendency to seek unity in diversity -- which again is not wrong.
Q: I am being told that to think 'I am the body' is a blemish in the mind.
M: Why talk like this? Such expressions create problems. The self is the source
of all, and of all --
the final destination. Nothing is external.
Q: When the body idea becomes obsessive, is it not altogether wrong?
M: There is nothing wrong in the idea of a body, nor even in the idea 'I am the
body'. But limiting
oneself to one body only is a mistake. In reality all existence, every form, is
my own, within my
consciousness. I cannot tell what I am because words can describe only what I am
not. I am, and
because I am, all is. But I am beyond consciousness and, therefore, in conscious
ness I cannot say
what I am. Yet, I am. The question 'Who am I' has no answer. No experience can a
nswer it, for the
self is beyond experience.
Q: Still, the question 'Who am I' must be of some use.
M: It has no answer in consciousness and, therefore, helps to go beyond consciou
sness.
Q: Here I am -- in the present moment. What is real in it, and what is not? Now,
please don't tell
me that my question is wrong. Questioning my questions leads me nowhere.
M: Your question is not wrong. It is unnecessary. You said: 'Here and now I am'.
Stop there, this is
real. Don't turn a fact into a question. There lies your mistake. You are neithe
r knowing nor not-
knowing, neither mind nor matter; don't attempt to describe yourself in terms of
mind and matter.
Q: Just now a boy came to you with a problem. You told him a few words and he we
nt away. Did
you help him?
M: Of course.
Q: Wow can you be so sure?
M: To help is my nature.
Q: How did you come to know It?
M: No need to know. It operates by itself.
Q: Still you have made a statement. On what is it based?
M: On what people tell me. But it is you who asks for proofs. I do not need them
. Setting things
right lies in my very nature, which is satyam, shivam, sundaram (the true, the g
ood, the beautiful).
Q: When a man comes to you for advice and you give him advice, wherefrom does it
come and by
what power does it help?
M: His own being affects his mind and induces a response.
Q: And what is your role?
M: In me the man and his self come together.
Q: Why does not the self help the man without you?
M: But I am the self! You imagine me as separate, hence your question. There is
no 'my self' and
'his self'. There is the Self, the only Self of all. Misled by the diversity of
names and shapes, minds
and bodies, you imagine multiple selves. We both are the self, but you seem to b
e unconvinced.
This talk of personal self and universal self is the learner's stage; go beyond,
don't be stuck in
duality.
Q: Let us come back to the man in need of help. He comes to you.
M: If he comes, he is sure to get help. Because he was destined to get help, he
came. There is
nothing fanciful about it. I cannot help some and refuse others. All who come ar
e helped, for such is
the law. Only the shape help takes varies according to the need.
Q: Why must he come here to get advice? Can't he get it from within?
M: He will not listen. His mind is turned outward. But in fact all experience is
in the mind, and even
his coming to me and getting help is all within himself. Instead of finding an a
nswer within himself,
he imagines an answer from without. To me there is no me, no man and no giving.
All this is merely
a flicker in the mind. I am infinite peace and silence in which nothing appears,
for all that appears --
disappears. Nobody comes for help, nobody offers help, nobody gets help. It is a
ll but a display in
consciousness.
Q: Yet the power to help is there and there is somebody or something that displa
ys that power,
call it God or Self or the Universal Mind. The name does not matter, but the fac
t does.
M: This is the stand the body-mind takes. The pure mind sees things as they are
-- bubbles in
consciousness. These bubbles are appearing, disappearing and reappearing -- with
out having real
being. No particular cause can be ascribed to them, for each is caused by all an
d affects all. Each
bubble is a body and all these bodies are mine.
Q: Do you mean to say, that you have the power to do everything rightly?
M: There is no power as separate from me. It is inherent in my very nature. Call
it creativity. Out of
a lump of gold you can make many ornaments -- each will remain gold. Similarly,
in whatever role I
may appear and whatever function I may perform -- I remain what I am: the 'I am'
immovable,
unshakable, independent. What you call the universe, nature, is my spontaneous c
reativity.
Whatever happens -- happens. But such is my nature that all ends in joy.
Q: I have a case of a boy gone blind because his stupid mother fed him methyl al
cohol. I am
requesting you to help him. You are full of compassion and, obviously, eager to
help. By what
power can you help him?
M: His case is registered in consciousness. It is there -- indelibly. Consciousn
ess will operate.
Q: Does it make any difference that I ask you to help?
M: Your asking is a part of the boy's blindness. Because he is blind, you ask. Y
ou have added
nothing.
Q: But your help will be a new factor?
M: No, all is contained in the boy's blindness. All is in it -- the mother, the
boy, you and me and all
else. It is one event.
Q: You mean to say that even our discussing the boy's case was predestined?
M: How else? All things contain their future. The boy appears in consciousness.
I am beyond. I do
not issue orders to consciousness. I know that it is in the nature of awareness
to set things right. Let
consciousness look after its creations! The boy's sorrow, your pity, my listenin
g and consciousness
acting -- all this is one single fact -- don't split it into components and then
ask questions.
Q: How strangely does your mind work?
M: You are strange, not me. I am normal. I am sane. I see things as they are, an
d therefore l am
not afraid of them. But you are afraid of reality.
Q: Why should l?
M: It is ignorance of yourself that makes you afraid and also unaware that you a
re afraid. Don't try
not to be afraid. Break down the wall of ignorance first.
People are afraid to die, because they do not know what is death. The jnani has
died before his
death, he saw that there was nothing to be afraid of. The moment you know your r
eal being, you are
afraid of nothing. Death gives freedom and power. To be free in the world, you m
ust die to the
world. Then the universe is your own, it becomes your body, an expression and a
tool. The
happiness of being absolutely free is beyond description. On the other hand, he
who is afraid of
freedom cannot die.
Q: You mean that one who cannot die, cannot live?
M: Put it as you like; attachment is bondage, detachment is freedom. To crave is
to slave.
Q: Does it follow that if you are saved, the world is saved?
M: As a whole the world does not need saving. Man makes mistakes and creates sor
row; when it
enters the field of awareness, the consciousness of a jnani, it is set right. Su
ch is his nature.
Q: We can observe what may be called spiritual progress. A selfish man turns rel
igious, controls
himself, refines his thoughts and feelings, takes to spiritual practice, realise
s his true being. Is such
progress ruled by causality, or is it accidental?
M: From my point of view everything happens by itself, quite spontaneously. But
man imagines that
he works for an incentive, towards a goal. He has always a reward in mind and st
rives for it.
Q: A crude, unevolved man will not work without a reward. Is it not right to off
er him incentives?
M: He will create for himself incentives anyhow. He does not know that to grow i
s in the nature of
consciousness. He will progress from motive to motive and will chase Gurus for t
he fulfilment of his
desires. When by the laws of his being he finds the way of return (nivritti) he
abandons all motives,
for his interest in the world is over. He wants nothing -- neither from others n
or from himself. He dies
to all and becomes the All. To want nothing and do nothing -- that is true creat
ion! To watch the
universe emerging and subsiding in one's heart is a wonder.
Q: The great obstacle to inner effort is boredom. The disciple gets bored.
M: Inertia and restlessness (tamas and rajas) work together and keep clarity and
harmony (sattva)
down. Tamas and Rajas must be conquered before Sattva can appear. It will all co
me in due
course, quite spontaneously.
Q: Is there no need of effort then?
M: When effort is needed, effort will appear. When effortlessness becomes essent
ial, it will assert
itself. You need not push life about. Just flow with it and give yourself comple
tely to the task of the
present moment, which is the dying now to the now. For living is dying. Without
death life cannot be.
Get hold of the main thing that the world and the self are one and perfect. Only
your attitude is faulty
and needs readjustment.
This process or readjustment is what you call sadhana. You come to it by putting
an end to
indolence and using all your energy to clear the way for clarity and charity. Bu
t in reality, these all
are signs of inevitable growth. Don't be afraid, don't resist, don't delay. Be w
hat you are. There is
nothing to be afraid of. Trust and try. Experiment honestly. Give your real bein
g a chance to shape
your life. You will not regret.
34. Mind is restlessness Itself
Questioner: I am a Swede by birth. Now I am teaching Hatha Yoga in Mexico and in
the States.
Maharaj: Where did you learn it?
Q: I had a teacher in the States, an Indian Swami.
M: What did it give you?
Q: It gave me good health and a means of livelihood.
M: Good enough. Is it all you want?
Q: I seek peace of mind. I got disgusted with all the cruel things done by the s
o-called Christians in
the name of Christ. For some time I was without religion. Then I got attracted t
o Yoga.
M: What did you gain?
Q: I studied the philosophy of Yoga and it did help me.
M: In what way did it help you? By what signs did you conclude that you have bee
n helped?
Q: Good health is something quite tangible.
M: No doubt it is very pleasant to feel fit. Is pleasure all you expected from Y
oga?
Q: The joy of well-being is the reward of Hatha Yoga. But Yoga in general yields
more than that. It
answers many questions.
M: What do you mean by Yoga?
Q: The whole teaching of India -- evolution, re-incarnation, karma and so on.
M: All right, you got all the knowledge you wanted. But in what way are you bene
fited by it?
Q: It gave me peace of mind.
M: Did it? Is your mind at peace? Is your search over?
Q: No, not yet.
M: Naturally. There will be no end to it, because there is no such thing as peac
e of mind. Mind
means disturbance; restlessness itself is mind. Yoga is not an attribute of the
mind, nor is it a state
of mind.
Q: Some measure of peace I did derive from Yoga.
M: Examine closely and you will see that the mind is seething with thoughts. It
may go blank
occasionally, but it does it for a time and reverts to its usual restlessness. A
becalmed mind is not a
peaceful mind. You say you want to pacify your mind. Is he, who wants to pacify
the mind, himself
peaceful?
Q: No. I am not at peace, I take the help of Yoga.
M: Don't you see the contradiction? For many years you sought your peace of mind
. You could not
find it, for a thing essentially restless cannot be at peace.
Q: There is some improvement.
M: The peace you claim to have found is very brittle any little thing can crack
it. What you call
peace is only absence of disturbance. It is hardly worth the name. The real peac
e cannot be
disturbed. Can you claim a peace of mind that is unassailable?
Q: l am striving.
M: Striving too is a form of restlessness.
Q: So what remains?
M: The self does not need to be put to rest. It is peace itself, not at peace. O
nly the mind is
restless. All it knows is restlessness, with its many modes and grades. The plea
sant are considered
superior and the painful are discounted. What we call progress is merely a chang
e over from the
unpleasant to the pleasant. But changes by themselves cannot bring us to the cha
ngeless, for
whatever has a beginning must have an end. The real does not begin; it only reve
als itself as
beginningless and endless, all-pervading, all-powerful, immovable prime mover, t
imelessly
changeless.
Q: So what has one to do?
M: Through Yoga you have accumulated knowledge and experience. This cannot be de
nied. But of
what use is it all to you? Yoga means union, joining. What have you re-united, r
e-joined?
Q: I am trying to rejoin the personality back to the real self.
M: The personality (vyakti) is but a product of imagination. The self (vyakta) i
s the victim of this
imagination. It is the taking yourself to be what you are not that binds you. Th
e person cannot be
said to exist on its own rights; it is the self that believes there is a person
and is conscious of being
it. Beyond the self (vyakta) lies the unmanifested (avyakta), the causeless caus
e of everything.
Even to talk of re-uniting the person with the self is not right, because there
is no person, only a
mental picture given a false reality by conviction. Nothing was divided and ther
e is nothing to unite.
Q: Yoga helps in the search for and the finding of the self.
M: You can find what you have lost. But you cannot find what you have not lost.
Q: Had I never lost anything, I would have been enlightened. But I am not. I am
searching. Is not
my very search a proof of my having lost something?
M: It only shows that you believe you have lost. But who believes it? And what i
s believed to be
lost? Have you lost a person like yourself? What is the self you are in search o
f? What exactly do
you expect to find?
Q: The true knowledge of the self.
M: The true knowledge of the self is not a knowledge. It is not something that y
ou find by
searching, by looking everywhere. It is not to be found in space or time. Knowle
dge is but a
memory, a pattern of thought, a mental habit. All these are motivated by pleasur
e and pain. It is
because you are goaded by pleasure and pain that you are in search of knowledge.
Being oneself
is completely beyond all motivation. You cannot be yourself for some reason. You
are yourself, and
no reason is needed.
Q: By doing Yoga I shall find peace.
M: Can there be peace apart from yourself? Are you talking from your own experie
nce or from
books only? Your book knowledge is useful to begin with, but soon it must be giv
en up for direct
experience, which by its very nature is inexpressible. Words can be used for des
truction also; of
words images are built, by words they are destroyed. You got yourself into your
present state
through verbal thinking; you must get out of it the same way.
Q: I did attain a degree of inner peace. Am I to destroy it?
M: What has been attained may be lost again. Only when you realise the true peac
e, the peace
you have never lost, that peace will remain with you, for it was never away. Ins
tead of searching for
what you do not have, find out what is it that you have never lost? That which i
s there before the
beginning and after the ending of everything; that to which there is no birth, n
or death. That
immovable state, which is not affected by the birth and death of a body or a min
d, that state you
must perceive.
Q: What are the means to such perception?
M: In life nothing can be had without overcoming obstacles. The obstacles to the
clear perception
of one's true being are desire for pleasure and fear of pain. It is the pleasure
-pain motivation that
stands in the way. The very freedom from all motivation, the state in which no d
esire arises is the
natural state.
Q: Such giving up of desires, does it need time?
M: If you leave it to time, millions of years will be needed. Giving up desire a
fter desire is a lengthy
process with the end never in sight. Leave alone your desires and fears, give yo
ur entire attention to
the subject, to him who is behind the experience of desire and fear. Ask: 'who d
esires?' Let each
desire bring you back to yourself.
Q: The root of all desires and fears is the same -- the longing for happiness.
M: The happiness you can think of and long for, is mere physical or mental satis
faction. Such
sensory or mental pleasure is not the real, the absolute happiness.
Q: Even sensory and mental pleasures and the general sense of well-being which a
rises with
physical and mental health, must have their roots in reality.
M: They have their roots in imagination. A man who is given a stone and assured
that it is a
priceless diamond will be mightily pleased until he realises his mistake; in the
same way pleasures
lose their tang and pains their barb when the self is known. Both are seen as th
ey are -- conditional
responses, mere reactions, plain attractions and repulsions, based on memories o
r pre-
conceptions. Usually pleasure and pain are experienced when expected. It is all
a matter of
acquired habits and convictions.
Q: Well, pleasure may be imaginary. But pain is real.
M: Pain and pleasure go always together. Freedom from one means freedom from bot
h. If you do
not care for pleasure, you will not be afraid of pain. But there is happiness wh
ich is neither, which is
completely beyond. The happiness you know is describable and measurable. It is o
bjective, so to
say. But the objective cannot be your own. It would be a grievous mistake to ide
ntify yourself with
something external. This churning up of levels leads nowhere. Reality is beyond
the subjective and
objective, beyond all levels, beyond every distinction. Most definitely it is no
t their origin, source or
root. These come from ignorance of reality, not from reality itself, which is in
describable, beyond
being and not-being.
Q: Many teachers have I followed and studied many doctrines, yet none gave me wh
at I wanted.
M: The desire to find the self will be surely fulfilled, provided you want nothi
ng else. But you must
be honest with yourself and really want nothing else. If in the meantime you wan
t many other things
and are engaged in their pursuit, your main purpose may be delayed until you gro
w wiser and
cease being torn between contradictory urges. Go within, without swerving, witho
ut ever looking
outward.
Q: But my desires and fears are still there.
M: Where are they but in your memory? realise that their root is in expectation
born of memory and
they will cease to obsess you.
Q: I have understood very well that social service is an endless task, because i
mprovement and
decay, progress and regress, go side by side. We can see it on all sides and on
every level. What
remains?
M: Whatever work you have undertaken -- complete it. Do not take up new tasks. u
nless it is called
for by a concrete situation of suffering and relief from suffering. Find yoursel
f first, and endless
blessings will follow. Nothing profits the world as much as the abandoning of pr
ofits. A man who no
longer thinks in terms of loss and gain is the truly non-violent man, for he is
beyond all conflict.
Q: Yes, I was always attracted by the idea of ahimsa (non-violence).
M: Primarily, ahimsa means what it says: 'don't hurt'. It is not doing good that
comes first, but
ceasing to hurt, not adding to suffering. Pleasing others is not ahimsa.
Q: I am not talking of pleasing, but I am all for helping others.
M: The only help worth giving is freeing from the need for further help. Repeate
d help is no help at
all. Do not talk of helping another, unless you can put him beyond all need of h
elp.
Q: How does one go beyond the need of help? And can one help another to do so?
M: When you have understood that all existence, in separation and limitation, is
painful, and when
you are willing and able to live integrally, in oneness with all life, as pure b
eing, you have gone
beyond all need of help. You can help another by precept and example and, above
all, by your
being. You cannot give what you do not have and you don't have what you are not.
You can only
give what you are -- and of that you can give limitlessly.
Q: But, is it true that all existence is painful?
M: What else can be the cause of this universal search for pleasure? Does a happ
y man seek
happiness? How restless people are, how constantly on the move! It is because th
ey are in pain
that they seek relief in pleasure. All the happiness they can imagine is in the
assurance of repeated
pleasure.
Q: If what I am, as I am, the person I take myself to be, cannot be happy, then
what am I to do?
M: You can only cease to be -- as you seem to be now. There is nothing cruel in
what I say. To
wake up a man from a nightmare is compassion. You came here because you are in p
ain, and all I
say is: wake up, know yourself, be yourself. The end of pain lies not in pleasur
e. When you realise
that you are beyond both pain and pleasure, aloof and unassailable, then the pur
suit of happiness
ceases and the resultant sorrow too. For pain aims at pleasure and pleasure ends
in pain,
relentlessly.
Q: In the ultimate state there can be no happiness?
M: Nor sorrow. Only freedom. Happiness depends on something or other and can be
lost; freedom
from everything depends on nothing and cannot be lost. Freedom from sorrow has n
o cause and,
therefore, cannot be destroyed. realise that freedom.
Q: Am I not born to suffer as a result of my past? Is freedom possible at all? W
as I born of my own
will? Am I not just a creature?
M: What is birth and death but the beginning and the ending of a stream of event
s in
consciousness? Because of the idea of separation and limitation they are painful
. Momentary relief
from pain we call pleasure -- and we build castles in the air hoping for endless
pleasure which we
call happiness. It is all misunderstanding and misuse. Wake up, go beyond, live
really.
Q: My knowledge is limited, my power negligible.
M: Being the source of both. the self is beyond both knowledge and power. The ob
servable is in
the mind. The nature of the self is pure awareness, pure witnessing, unaffected
by the presence or
absence of knowledge or liking.
Have your being outside this body of birth and death and all your problems will
be solved. They
exist because you believe yourself born to die. Undeceive yourself and be free.
You are not a
person.
35. Greatest Guru is Your Inner Self
Questioner: On all sides I hear that freedom from desires and inclinations is th
e first condition of
self-realisation. But I find the condition impossible of fulfilment. Ignorance o
f oneself causes desires
and desires perpetuate ignorance. A truly vicious circle!
Maharaj: There are no conditions to fulfil. There is nothing to be done, nothing
to be given up. Just
look and remember, whatever you perceive is not you, nor yours. It is there in t
he field of
consciousness, but you are not the field and its contents, nor even the knower o
f the field. It is your
idea that you have to do things that entangle you in the results of your efforts
-- the motive, the
desire, the failure to achieve, the sense of frustration -- all this holds you b
ack. Simply look at
whatever happens and know that you are beyond it.
Q: Does it mean I should abstain from doing anything?
M: You cannot! What goes on must go on. If you stop suddenly, you will crash.
Q: Is it a matter of the known and the knower becoming one?
M: Both are ideas in the mind, and words that express them. There is no self in
them. The self is
neither, between nor beyond. To look for it on the mental level is futile. Stop
searching, and see -- it
is here and now -- it is that 'I am' you know so well. All you need to do is to
cease taking yourself to
be within the field of consciousness. Unless you have already considered these m
atters carefully,
listening to me once will not do. Forget your past experiences and achievements,
stand naked,
exposed to the winds and rains of life and you will have a chance.
Q: Has devotion (bhakti) any place in your teaching?
M: When you are not well, you go to a physician who tells you what is wrong and
what is the
remedy. If you have confidence in him, it makes things simple: you take the medi
cine, follow the diet
restrictions and get well. But if you do not trust him, you may still take a cha
nce, or you may study
medicine yourself! In all cases it is your desire for recovery that moves you, n
ot the physician.
Without trust there is no peace. Somebody or other you always trust -- it may be
your mother, or
your wife. Of all the people the knower of the self, the liberated man, is the m
ost trust-worthy. But
merely to trust is not enough. You must also desire. Without desire for freedom
of what use is the
confidence that you can acquire freedom? Desire and confidence must go together.
The stronger
your desire, the easier comes the help. The greatest Guru is helpless as long as
the disciple is not
eager to learn. Eagerness and earnestness are all-important. Confidence will com
e with experience.
Be devoted to your goal -- and devotion to him who can guide you will follow. If
your desire and
confidence are strong, they will operate and take you to your goal, for you will
not cause delay by
hesitation and compromise.
The greatest Guru is your inner self. Truly, he is the supreme teacher. He alone
can take you to
your goal and he alone meets you at the end of the road. Confide in him and you
need no outer
Guru. But again you must have the strong desire to find him and do nothing that
will create
obstacles and delays. And do not waste energy and time on regrets. Learn from yo
ur mistakes and
do not repeat them.
Q: If you do not mind my asking a personal question...?
M: Yes, go ahead.
Q: I see you sitting on an antelope skin. How does it tally with non-violence?
M: All my working life I was a cigarette-maker, helping people to spoil their he
alth. And in front of
my door the municipality has put up a public lavatory, spoiling my health. In th
is violent world how
can one keep away from violence of some kind or other?
Q: Surely all avoidable violence should be avoided. And yet in India every holy
man has his tiger,
lion, leopard or antelope skin to sit on.
M: Maybe because no plastics were available in ancient times and a skin was best
to keep the
damp away. Rheumatism has no charm, even for a saint! Thus the tradition arose t
hat for lengthy
meditations a skin is needed. Just like the drum-hide in a temple, so is the ant
elope skin of a Yogi.
We hardly notice it.
Q: But the animal had to be killed.
M: I have never heard of a Yogi killing a tiger for his hide. The killers are no
t Yogis and the Yogis
are not killers.
Q: Should you not express your disapproval by refusing to sit on a skin?
M: What an idea! I disapprove of the entire universe, why only a skin?
Q: What is wrong with the universe?
M: Forgetting your Self is the greatest injury; all the calamities flow from it.
Take care of the most
important, the lesser will take care of itself. You do not tidy up a dark room.
You open the windows
first. Letting in the light makes everything easy. So, let us wait with improvin
g others until we have
seen ourselves as we are -- and have changed. There is no need to turn round and
round in
endless questioning; find yourself and everything will fall into its proper plac
e.
Q: The urge to return to the source is very rare. Is it at all natural?
M: Outgoing is natural in the beginning, ingoing -- in the end. But in reality t
he two are one, just like
breathing in and out are one.
Q: In the same way are not the body and the dweller in the body one?
M: Events in time and space -- birth and death, cause and effect -- these may be
taken as one; but
the body and the embodied are not of the same order of reality. The body exists
in time and space,
transient and limited, while the dweller is timeless and spaceless, eternal and
all-pervading. To
identify the two is a grievous mistake and the cause of endless suffering. You c
an speak of the mind
and body as one, but the body-mind is not the underlying reality.
Q: Whoever he may be, the dweller is in control of the body and, therefore, resp
onsible for it.
M: There is a universal power which is in control and is responsible.
Q: And so, I can do as I like and put the blame on some universal power? How eas
y!
M: Yes, very easy. Just realise the One Mover behind all that moves and leave al
l to Him. If you do
not hesitate, or cheat, this is the shortest way to reality. Stand without desir
e and fear, relinquishing
all control and all responsibility.
Q: What madness!
M: Yes, divine madness. What is wrong in letting go the illusion of personal con
trol and personal
responsibility? Both are in the mind only. Of course, as long as you imagine you
rself to be in
control, you should also imagine yourself to be responsible. One implies the oth
er.
Q: How can the universal be responsible for the particular?
M: All life on earth depends on the sun. Yet you cannot blame the sun for all th
at happens, though
it is the ultimate cause. Light causes the colour of the flower, but it neither
controls, nor is
responsible for it directly. It makes it possible, that is all.
Q: What I do not like in all this is taking refuge in some universal power.
M: You cannot quarrel with facts.
Q: Whose facts? Yours or mine?
M: Yours. You cannot deny my facts, for you do not know them. Could you know the
m, you would
not deny them. Here lies the trouble. You take your imagining for facts and my f
acts for imagination.
I know for certain that all is one. Differences do not separate. Either you are
responsible for nothing,
or for everything. To imagine that you are in control and responsible for one bo
dy only is the
aberration of the body-mind.
Q: Still, you are limited by your body.
M: Only in matters pertaining to the body. This I do not mind. It is like enduri
ng the seasons of the
year. They come, they go -- they hardly affect me. In the same way body-minds co
me and go -- life
is forever in search of new expressions.
Q: As long as you do not put all the burden of evil on God, I am satisfied. Ther
e may be a God for
all I know, but to me he is a concept projected by the human mind. He may be a r
eality to you, but
to me society is more real than God, for I am both its creature and its prisoner
. Your values are
wisdom and compassion; society's sagacious selfishness. I live in a world quite
different from yours.
M: None compels.
Q: None compels you, but I am compelled. My world is an evil world, full of tear
s, toil and pain. To
explain it away by the intellectualising, by putting forth theories of evolution
and karma is merely
adding insult to injury. The God of an evil world is a cruel God.
M: You are the god of your world and you are both stupid and cruel. Let God be a
concept -- your
own creation. Find out who you are, how did you come to live, longing for truth,
goodness and
beauty in a world full of evil. Of what use is your arguing for or against God.
when you just do not
know who is God and what are you talking about. The God born of fear and hope, s
haped by desire
and imagination, cannot be the Power That is, the Mind and the Heart of the univ
erse.
Q: I agree that the world I live in and the God I believe in are both creatures
of imagination. But in
what way are they created by desire? Why do I imagine a world so painful and a G
od so indifferent?
What is wrong with me that I should torture myself so cruelly? The enlightened m
an comes and tells
me: 'it is but a dream to put an end to', but is he not himself a part of the dr
eam? I find myself
trapped and see no way out. You say you are free. Of what are you free? For heav
en's sake, don't
feed me on words, enlighten me, help me to wake up, since it is you who sees me
tossing in my
sleep.
M: When I say I am free, I merely state a fact. If you are an adult, you are fre
e from infancy. I am
free from all description and identification. Whatever you may hear, see, or thi
nk of, I am not that. I
am free from being a percept, or a concept.
Q: Still, you have a body and you depend on it.
M: Again you assume that your point of view is the only correct one. I repeat: I
was not, am not,
shall not be a body. To me this is a fact. I too was under the illusion of havin
g been born, but my
Guru made me see that birth and death are mere ideas -- birth is merely the idea
: 'I have a body'.
And death -- 'I have lost my body'. Now, when I know I am not a body, the body m
ay be there or
may not -- what difference does it make? The bodymind
is like a room. It is there, but I need not
live in it all the time.
Q: Yet, there is a body and you do take care of it.
M: The power that created the body takes care of it.
Q: We are jumping from level to level all the time.
M: There are two levels to consider -- the physical -- of facts, and mental -- o
f ideas. I am beyond
both. Neither your facts, nor ideas are mine. What I see is beyond. Cross over t
o my side and see
with me.
Q: What I want to say is very simple. As long as I believe: 'I am the body', I m
ust not say: 'God will
look after my body'. God will not. He will let it starve, sicken and die.
M: What else do you expect from a mere body? Why are you so anxious about it?
Because you think you are the body, you want it indestructible. You can extend i
ts life considerably
by appropriate practices, but for what ultimate good?
Q: It is better to live long and healthy. It gives us a chance to avoid the mist
akes of childhood and
youth, the frustrations of adulthood, the miseries and imbecility of old age.
M: By all means live long. But you are not the master. Can you decide the days o
f your birth and
death? We are not speaking the same language. Yours is a make-believe talk, all
hangs on
suppositions and assumptions. You speak with assurance about things you are not
sure of.
Q: Therefore, I am here.
M: You are not yet here. I am here. Come in! But you don't. You want me to live
your life, feel your
way, use your language. I cannot, and it will not help you. You must come to me.
Words are of the
mind and the mind obscures and distorts. Hence the absolute need to go beyond wo
rds and move
over to my side.
Q: Take me over.
M: I am doing it, but you resist. You give reality to concepts, while concepts a
re distortions of
reality. Abandon all conceptualisation and stay silent and attentive. Be earnest
about it and all will
be well with you.
36. Killing Hurts the Killer, not the Killed
Questioner: A thousand years ago a man lived and died. His identity (antahkarana
) re-appeared in
a new body. Why does he not remember his previous life? And if he does, can the
memory be
brought into the conscious?
Maharaj: How do you know that the same person re-appeared in the new body? A new
body may
mean a new person altogether.
Q: Imagine a pot of ghee. (Indian clarified butter). When the pot breaks, the Gh
ee remains and
can be transferred to another pot. The old pot had its own scent, the new -- its
own. The Ghee will
carry the scents from pot to pot. In the same way the personal identity is trans
ferred from body to
body.
M: It is all right. When there is the body, its peculiarities affect the person.
Without the body we
have the pure identity in the sense of 'I am'. But when you are reborn in a new
body, where is the
world formerly experienced?
Q: Every body experiences its own world.
M: In the present body the old body -- is it merely an idea, or is it a memory?
Q: An idea, of course. How can a brain remember what it has not experienced?
M: You have answered your own question. Why play with ideas? Be content with wha
t you are
sure of. And the only thing you can be sure of is 'I am'. Stay with it, and reje
ct everything else. This
is Yoga.
Q: I can reject only verbally. At best I remember to repeat the formula: 'This i
s not me, this is not
mine. I am beyond all this'.
M: Good enough. First verbally, then mentally and emotionally, then in action. G
ive attention to the
reality within you and it will come to light. It is like churning the cream for
butter. Do it correctly and
assiduously and the result is sure to come.
Q: How can the absolute be the result of a process?
M: You are right, the relative cannot result in the absolute. But the relative c
an block the absolute,
just as the non-churning of the cream may prevent the butter from separating. It
is the real that
creates the urge; the inner prompts the outer and the outer responds in interest
and effort. But
ultimately there is no inner, nor outer; the light of consciousness is both the
creator and the
creature, the experiencer and the experience, the body and the embodied. Take ca
re of the power
that projects all this and your problems will come to an end.
Q: Which is the projecting power?
M: It is imagination prompted by desire.
Q: I know all this, but have no power over it.
M: This is another illusion of yours, born from craving for results.
Q: What is wrong with purposeful action?
M: It does not apply. In these matters there is no question of purpose, nor of a
ction. All you need is
to listen, remember, ponder. It is like taking food. All you can do is to bite o
ff, chew and swallow. All
else is unconscious and automatic. Listen, remember and understand -- the mind i
s both the actor
and the stage. All is of the mind and you are not the mind. The mind is born and
 reborn, not you.
The mind creates the world and all the wonderful variety of it. Just like in a g
ood play you have all
sorts of characters and situations, so you need a little of everything to make a
world.
Q: Nobody suffers in a play.
M: Unless one identifies himself with it. Don't identify yourself with the world
and you will not suffer.
Q: Others will.
M: Then make your world perfect, by all means. If you believe in God, work with
Him. It you do not,
become one. Either see the world as a play or work at it with all your might. Or
both.
Q: What about the identify of the dying man? What happens to it when he is dead?
Do you agree
that it continues in another body.
M: It continues and yet it does not. All depends how you look at it. What is ide
ntity, after all?
Continuity in memory? Can you talk of identity without memory?
Q: Yes, I can. The child may not know its parents, yet the hereditary characteri
stics will be there.
M: Who identifies them? Somebody with a memory to register and compare. Don't yo
u see that
memory is the warp of your mental life. And identity is merely a pattern of even
ts in time and space.
Change the pattern and you have changed the man.
Q: The pattern is significant and important. It has its own value. By saying tha
t a woven design is
merely coloured threads you miss the most important -- the beauty of it. Or by d
escribing a book as
paper with ink stains on it, you miss the meaning. Identity is valuable because
it is the basis of
individuality; that which makes us unique and irreplaceable. 'I am', is the intu
ition of uniqueness.
M: Yes and no. Identity, individuality, uniqueness -- they are the most valuable
aspects of the mind,
yet of the mind only. 'I am all there is' too is an experience equally valid. Th
e particular and the
universal are inseparable. They are the two aspects of the nameless, as seen fro
m without and
from within. Unfortunately, words only mention, but don't convey. Try to go beyo
nd the words.
Q: What dies with death?
M: The idea 'I am this body' dies; the witness does not.
Q: The Jains believe in a multiplicity of witnesses, forever separate.
M: That is their tradition based on the experience of some great people. The one
witness reflects
itself in the countless bodies as 'I am'. As long as the bodies, however subtle,
 last, the 'I am'
appears as many. Beyond the body there is only the One.
Q: God?
M: The Creator is a person whose body is the world. The Nameless one is beyond a
ll gods.
Q: Sri Ramana Maharshi died. What difference did it make to him?
M: None. What he was, he is -- the Absolute Reality.
Q: But to the common man death makes a difference.
M: What he thinks himself to be before death he continues to be after death. His
self-image
survives.
Q: The other day there was a talk about the use by the jnani of animal skins for
meditation etc. I
was not convinced. It is easy to justify everything by referring to custom and t
radition. Customs may
be cruel and tradition corrupt. They explain, but do not justify.
M: I never meant to say that lawlessness follows self-realisation. A liberated m
an is extremely law-
abiding. But his laws are the laws of his real self, not of his society. These h
e observes, or breaks
according to circumstances and necessity. But he will never be fanciful and diso
rderly.
Q: What I cannot accept is justification by custom and habit.
M: The difficulty lies in our differing points of view. You speak from the body-
mind's. Mine is of the
witness. The difference is basic.
Q: Still, cruelty is cruelty
M: None compels you to be cruel.
Q: Taking advantage of other people's cruelty is cruelty by proxy.
M: If you look into living process closely, you will find cruelty everywhere, fo
r life feeds on life. This
is a fact, but it does not make you feel guilty of being alive. You began a life
of cruelty by giving your
mother endless trouble. To the last day of your life you will compete for food,
clothing, shelter,
holding on to your body, fighting for its needs, wanting it to be secure, in a w
orld of insecurity and
death. From the animal's point of view being killed is not the worst form of dyi
ng; surely preferable
to sickness and senile decay. The cruelty lies in the motive, not in the fact. K
illing hurts the killer, not
the killed.
Q: Agreed; then one must not accept the services of hunters and butchers.
M: Who wants you to accept?
Q: You accept.
M: That is how you see me! How quickly you accuse, condemn, sentence and execute
! Why begin
with me and not with yourself?
Q: A man like you should set an example.
M: Are you ready to follow my example? I am dead to the world, I want nothing, n
ot even to live. Be
as I am, do as I do. You are judging me by my clothes and food; while I only loo
k at your motives; if
you believe to be the body and the mind and act on it you are guilty of the grea
test cruelty -- cruelty
to your own real being. Compared to it all other cruelties do not count.
Q; You are taking refuge in the claim that you are not the body. But you are in
control of the body
and responsible for all it does. To allow the body full autonomy would be imbeci
lity, madness!
M: Cool down. I am also against all killing of animals for flesh or fur, but I r
efuse to give it first
place. Vegetarianism is a worthy cause, but not the most urgent; all causes are
served best by the
man who has returned to his source.
Q: When I was at Sri Ramanashram, I felt Bhagwan all over the place, all-pervadi
ng, all-perceiving.
M: You had the necessary faith. Those who have true faith in him will see him ev
erywhere and at
all times. All happens according to your faith and your faith is the shape of yo
ur desire.
Q: The faith you have in yourself, is not that too a shape of a desire?
M: When I say: 'I am', I do not mean a separate entity with a body as its nucleu
s. I mean the totality
of being, the ocean of consciousness, the entire universe of all that is and kno
ws. I have nothing to
desire for I am complete forever.
Q: Can you touch the inner life of other people?
M: I am the people.
Q: I do not mean identity of essence or substance, nor similarity of form. I mea
n the actual
entering into the minds and hearts of others and participating in their personal
experiences. Can
you suffer and rejoice with me, or you only infer what I feel from observation a
nd analogy?
M: All beings are in me. But bringing down into the brain the content of another
brain requires
special training. There is nothing that cannot be achieved by training.
Q: I am not your projection, nor are you mine. I am on my own right, not merely
as your creation.
This crude philosophy of imagination and projection does not appeal to me. You a
re depriving me of
all reality. Who is the image of whom? You are my image or am I yours. Or am I a
n image in my
own image! No, something is wrong somewhere.
M: Words betray their hollowness. The real cannot be described, it must be exper
ienced. I cannot
find better words for what I am now. What I say may sound ridiculous. But what t
he words try to
convey is the highest truth. All is one, however much we quibble. And all is don
e to please the one
source and goal of every desire. whom we all know as the 'I am'.
Q: It is pain that is at the root of desire. The basic urge is to escape from pa
in.
M: What is the root of pain? Ignorance of yourself. What is the root of desire?
The urge to find
yourself. All creation toils for its self and will not rest until it returns to
it.
Q: When will it return?
M: It can return whenever you want it.
Q: And the world?
M: You can take it with you.
Q: Must I wait with helping the world until I reach perfection?
M: By all means help the world. You will not help much, but the effort will make
you grow. There is
nothing wrong in trying to help the world.
Q: Surely there were people, common people, who helped greatly.
M: When the time comes for the world to be helped, some people are given the wil
l, the wisdom
and the power to cause great changes.
37. Beyond Pain and Pleasure there is Bliss
Maharaj: You must realise first of all that you are the proof of everything, inc
luding yourself. None
can prove your existence, because his existence must be confirmed by you first.
Your being and
knowing you owe nobody. Remember, you are entirely on your own. You do not come
from
somewhere, you do not go anywhere. You are timeless being and awareness.
Questioner: There is a basic difference between us. You know the real while I kn
ow only the
workings of my mind. Therefore what you say is one thing, what I hear is another
. What you say is
true; what I understand is false, though the words are the same. There is a gap
between us. How to
close the gap?
M: Give up the idea of being what you think yourself to be and there will be no
gap. By imagining
yourself as separate you have created the gap. You need not cross it. Just don't
create it. All is you
and yours. There is nobody else. This is a fact.
Q: How strange! The very same words which to you are true, to me are false. 'The
re is nobody
else'. How obviously untrue!
M: Let them be true or untrue. Words don't matter. What matters is the idea you
have of yourself,
for it blocks you. Give it up.
Q: From early childhood I was taught to think that I am limited to my name and s
hape. A mere
statement to the contrary will not erase the mental groove. A regular brain-wash
ing is needed -- if at
all it can be done.
M: You call it brain-washing, I call it Yoga -- levelling up all the mental ruts
. You must not be
compelled to think the same thoughts again and again. Move on!
Q: Easier said than done.
M: Don't be childish! Easier to change, than to suffer. Grow out of your childis
hness, that is all.
Q: Such things are not done. They happen.
M: Everything happens all the time, but you must be ready for it. Readiness is r
ipeness. You do not
see the real because your mind is not ready for it.
Q: If reality is my real nature, how can I ever be unready?
M: Unready means afraid. You are afraid of what you are. Your destination is the
whole. But you
are afraid that you will lose your identity. This is childishness, clinging to t
he toys, to your desires
and fears, opinions and ideas. Give it all up and be ready for the real to asser
t itself. This self-
assertion is best expressed in words: 'I am'. Nothing else has being. Of this yo
u are absolutely
certain
Q: 'I am', of course, but 'I know' also. And I know that I am so and so, the own
er of the body, in
manifold relations with other owners.
M: It is all memory carried over into the now.
Q: I can be certain only of what is now. Past and future, memory and imagination
, these are
mental states, but they are all I know and they are now. You are telling me to a
bandon them. How
does one abandon the now?
M: You are moving into the future all the time whether you like it or not.
Q: I am moving from now into now -- I do not move at all. Everything else moves
-- not me.
M: Granted. But your mind does move. In the now you are both the movable and the
immovable.
So far you took yourself to be the movable and overlooked the immovable. Turn yo
ur mind inside
out. Overlook the movable and you will find yourself to be the ever-present, cha
ngeless reality,
inexpressible, but solid like a rock.
Q: If it is now, why am I not aware of it?
M: Because you hold on to the idea that you are not aware of it. Let go the idea
.
Q: It does not make me aware.
M: Wait. You want to be on both sides of the wall at the same time. You can, but
you must remove
the wall. Or realise that the wall and both sides of it are one single space, to
which no idea like
'here' or 'there' applies.
Q: Similes prove nothing. My only complaint is this: why do I not see what you s
ee, why your
words do not sound true in my mind. Let me know this much; all else can wait. Yo
u are wise and I
am stupid; you see, I don't. Where and how shall I find my wisdom?
M: If you know yourself to be stupid, you are not stupid at all!
Q: Just as knowing myself sick does not make me well, so knowing myself foolish
can not make
me wise.
M: To know that you are ill must you not be well initially?
Q: Oh, no. I know by comparison. If I am blind from birth and you tell me that y
ou know things
without touching them, while I must touch to know, I am aware that I am blind wi
thout knowing what
does it mean to see. Similarly, I know that I am lacking something when you asse
rt things which I
cannot grasp. You are telling me such wonderful things about myself; according t
o you I am eternal,
omnipresent, omniscient, supremely happy, creator, preserver and destroyer of al
l there is, the
source of all life, the heart of being, the lord and the beloved of every creatu
re. You equate me with
the Ultimate Reality, the source and the goal of all existence. I just blink, fo
r I know myself to be a
tiny little bundle of desires and fears, a bubble of suffering, a transient flas
h of consciousness in an
ocean of darkness.
M: Before pain was, you were. After pain had gone, you remained. Pain is transie
nt, you are not.
Q: I am sorry, but I do not see what you see. From the day I was born till the d
ay I die, pain and
pleasure will weave the pattern of my life. Of being before birth and after deat
h I know nothing. I
neither accept nor deny you. I hear what you say, but I do not know it.
M: Now you are conscious, are you not?
Q: Please do not ask me about before and after. I just know only what is now.
M: Good enough. You are conscious. Hold on to it. There are states when you are
not conscious.
Call it unconscious being.
Q: Being unconscious?
M: Consciousness and unconsciousness do not apply here. Existence is in consciou
sness,
essence is independent of consciousness.
Q: It is void? Is it silence?
M: Why elaborate? Being pervades and transcends consciousness. Objective conscio
usness is a
part of pure consciousness, not beyond it.
Q: How do you come to know a state of pure being which is neither conscious nor
unconscious?
All knowledge is in consciousness only. There may be such a state as the abeyanc
e of the mind.
Does consciousness then appear as the witness?
M: The witness only registers events. In the abeyance of the mind even the sense
'I am' dissolves.
There is no 'I am' without the mind.
Q: Without the mind means without thoughts. 'I am' as a thought subsides. 'I am'
as the sense of
being remains.
M: All experience subsides with the mind. Without the mind there can be no exper
iencer nor
experience.
Q: Does not the witness remain?
M: The witness merely registers the presence or absence of experience. It is not
an experience by
itself, but it becomes an experience when the thought: 'I am the witness' arises
.
Q: All I know is that sometimes the mind works and sometimes it stops. The exper
ience of mental
silence I call the abeyance of the mind.
M: Call it silence, or void, or abeyance, the fact is that the three -- experien
cer, experiencing,
experience -- are not. In witnessing, in awareness, self-consciousness, the sens
e of being this or
that, is not. Unidentified being remains.
Q: As a state of unconsciousness?
M: With reference to anything, it is the opposite. It is also between and beyond
all opposites. It is
neither consciousness nor unconsciousness, nor midway, nor beyond the two. It is
by itself, not with
reference to anything which may be called experience or its absence.
Q: How strange! You speak of it as if it were an experience.
M: When I think of it -- it becomes an experience.
Q: Like the invisible light, intercepted by a flower, becoming colour?
M: Yes, you may say so. It is in the colour but not the colour.
Q: The same old four-fold negation of Nagarjuna: neither this nor that, nor both
, nor either. My
mind reels!
M: Your difficulty stems from the idea that reality is a state of consciousness,
one among many.
You tend to say: "This is real. That is not real. And this is partly real, partl
y unreal", as if reality were
an attribute or quality to have in varying measures.
Q: Let me put it differently. After all, consciousness becomes a problem only wh
en it is painful. An
ever-blissful state does not give rise to questions. We find all consciousness t
o be a mixture of the
pleasant and the painful. Why?
M: All consciousness is limited and therefore painful. At the root of consciousn
ess lies desire, the
urge to experience.
Q: Do you mean to say that without desire there can be no consciousness? And wha
t is the
advantage of being unconscious? If I have to forego pleasure for the freedom fro
m pain, I better
keep both.
M: Beyond pain and pleasure there is bliss.
Q: Unconscious bliss, of what use is it?
M: Neither conscious nor unconscious. Real.
Q: What is your objection to consciousness?
M: It is a burden. Body means burden. Sensations, desires, thoughts -- these are
all burdens. All
consciousness is of conflict.
Q: Reality is described as true being, pure consciousness, infinite bliss. What
has pain to do with
it?
M: Pain and pleasure happen, but pain is the price of pleasure, pleasure is the
reward of pain. In
life too you often please by hurting and hurt by pleasing. To know that pain and
pleasure are one is
peace.
Q: All this is very interesting, no doubt, but my goal is more simple. I want mo
re pleasure and less
pain in life. What am I to do?
M: As long as there is consciousness, there must be pleasure and pain. It is in
the nature of the 'I
am', of consciousness, to identify itself with the opposites.
Q: Then of what use is all this to me? It does not satisfy.
M: Who are you, who is unsatisfied?
Q: I am, the pain-pleasure man.
M: Pain and pleasure are both ananda (bliss). Here I am sitting in front of you
and telling you --
from my own immediate and unchanging experience -- pain and pleasure are the cre
sts and valleys
of the waves in the ocean of bliss. Deep down there is utter fullness.
Q: Is your experience constant?
M: It is timeless and changeless.
Q: All I know is desire for pleasure and fear of pain.
M: That is what you think about yourself. Stop it. If you cannot break a habit a
ll at once, consider
the familiar way of thinking and see its falseness. Questioning the habitual is
the duty of the mind.
What the mind created, the mind must destroy. Or realise that there is no desire
outside the mind
and stay out.
Q: Honestly, I distrust this explaining everything as mind-made. The mind is onl
y an instrument, as
the eye is an instrument. Can you say that perception is creation? I see the wor
ld through the
window, not in the window. All you say holds well together because of the common
foundation, but I
do not know whether your foundation is in reality, or only in the mind. I can ha
ve only a mental
picture of it. What it means to you I do not know.
M: As long as you take your stand in the mind, you will see me in the mind.
Q: How inadequate are words for understanding!
M: Without words, what is there to understand? The need for understanding arises
from mis-
understanding. What I say is true, but to you it is only a theory. How will you
come to know that it is
true? Listen, remember, ponder, visualise, experience. Also apply it in your dai
ly life. Have patience
with me and, above all have patience with yourself, for you are your only obstac
le. The way leads
through yourself beyond yourself. As long as you believe only the particular to
be real, conscious
and happy and reject the non-dual reality as something imagined, an abstract con
cept, you will find
me doling out concepts and abstractions. But once you have touched the real with
in your own
being, you will find me describing what for you is the nearest and the dearest.
38. Spiritual Practice is Will Asserted and Re-asserted
Questioner: The Westerners who occasionally come to see you are faced with a pec
uliar difficulty.
The very notion of a liberated man, a realised man, a self-knower, a God-knower,
a man beyond the
world, is unknown to them. All they have in their Christian culture is the idea
of a saint: a pious man,
law-abiding, God-fearing, fellow-loving, prayerful, sometimes prone to ecstasies
and confirmed by a
few miracles. The very idea of a jnani is foreign to Western culture, something
exotic and rather
unbelievable. Even when his existence is accepted, he is looked at with suspicio
n, as a case of self-
induced euphoria caused by strange physical postures and mental attitudes. The v
ery idea of a new
dimension in consciousness seems to them implausible and improbable.
What will help them is the opportunity of hearing a jnani relate his own experie
nce of realisation, its
causes and beginnings, its progress and attainments and its actual practice in d
aily life. Much of
what he says may remain strange, even meaningless, yet there will remain a feeli
ng of reality, an
atmosphere of actual experiencing, ineffable, yet very real, a centre from which
an exemplary life
can be lived.
Maharaj: The experience may be incommunicable. Can one communicate an experience
?
Q: Yes, if one is an artist. The essence of art is communication of feeling, of
experience.
M: To receive communication, you must be receptive.
Q: Of course. There must be a receiver. But if the transmitter does not transmit
, of what use is the
receiver?
M: The jnani belongs to all. He gives himself tirelessly and completely to whoev
er comes to him. If
he is not a giver, he is not a jnani. Whatever he has, he shares.
Q: But can he share what he is?
M: You mean, can he make others into jnanis? Yes and no. No, since jnanis are no
t made, they
realise themselves as such, when they return to their source, their real nature.
I cannot make you
into what you already are. All I can tell you is the way I travelled and invite
you to take it.
Q: This does not answer my question. I have in mind the critical and sceptical W
esterner who
denies the very possibility of higher states of consciousness. Recently drugs ha
ve made a breach in
his disbelief, without affecting his materialistic outlook. Drugs or no drugs, t
he body remains the
primary fact and the mind is secondary. Beyond the mind, they see nothing. From
Buddha onwards
the state of self-realisation was described in negative terms, as 'not this, not
that'. Is it inevitable? Is
it not possible to illustrate it, if not describe. I admit, no verbal descriptio
n will do, when the state
described is beyond words. Yet it is also within words. Poetry is the art of put
ting into words the
inexpressible.
M: There is no lack of religious poets. Turn to them for what you want. As far a
s I am concerned,
my teaching is simple: trust me for a while and do what I tell you. If you perse
vere, you will find that
your trust was justified.
Q: And what to do with people who are interested, but cannot trust?
M: If they could stay with me, they would come to trust me. Once they trust me,
they will follow my
advice and discover for themselves.
Q: It is not for the training that I am asking just now, but for its results. Yo
u had both. You are
willing to tell us all about the training, but when it comes to results, you ref
use to share. Either you
tell us that your state is beyond words, or that there is no difference; that wh
ere we see a difference,
you see none. In both cases we are left without any insight into your state.
M: How can you have insight into my state when you are without insight into your
own? When the
very instrument of insight is lacking, is it not important to find it first? It
is like a blind man wanting to
learn painting before he regains his eyesight. You want to know my state -- but
do you know the
state of your wife or servant?
Q: I am asking for some hints only.
M: Well, I gave you a very significant clue -- where you see differences, I don'
t. To me it is enough.
If you think it is not enough, I can only repeat; it is enough. Think it out dee
ply and you will come to
see what I see. You seem to want instant insight, forgetting that the instant is
always preceded by a
long preparation. The fruit falls suddenly, but the ripening takes time. After a
ll, when I talk of trusting
me, it is only for a short time, just enough time to start you moving. The more
earnest you are, the
less belief you need, for soon you will find your faith in me justified. You wan
t me to prove to you
that I am trustworthy! How can I and why should l? After all, what I am offering
you is the
operational approach, so current in Western science. When a scientist describes
an experiment and
its results, usually you accept his statements on trust and repeat his experimen
t as he describes it.
Once you get the same or similar results, you need not trust him any more; you t
rust your own
experience. Encouraged, you proceed and arrive in the end at substantially ident
ical results.
Q: The Indian mind was made ready for metaphysical experiments by culture and nu
rture. To the
Indian words like 'direct perception of the Supreme Reality' make sense and brin
g out responses
from the very depths of his being. They mean little to a Westerner; even when br
ought up in his own
variety of Christianity, he does not think beyond conformity with God's commandm
ents and Christ's
injunctions. First-hand knowledge of reality is not only beyond ambition, but al
so beyond conceiving.
Some Indians tell me: 'Hopeless. The Westerner will not, for he cannot. Tell him
nothing about self-
realisation; let him live a useful life and earn a rebirth in India. Then only w
ill he have a chance'.
Some say: 'Reality is for all equally, but not all are equally endowed with the
capacity to grasp it.
The capacity will come with desire, which will grow into devotion and ultimately
into total self-
dedication. With integrity and earnestness and iron determination to overcome al
l obstacles, the
Westerner has the same chance as the Oriental man. All he needs is the rousing o
f interest'. To
rouse his interest in self-knowledge he needs to be convinced about its advantag
es.
M: You believe it is possible to transmit a personal experience?
Q: I do not know. You speak of unity, identity of the seer with the seen. When a
ll is one,
communication should be feasible.
M: To have the direct experience of a country one must go and live there. Don't
ask for the
impossible. A man's spiritual victory no doubt benefits mankind, but to benefit
another individual, a
close personal relation is required. Such relation is not accidental and not eve
rybody can claim it.
On the other hand, the scientific approach is for all. 'Trust-test-taste'. What
more do you need? Why
push the Truth down unwilling throats? It cannot be done, anyhow. Without a rece
iver what can the
giver do?
Q: The essence of art is to use the outer form to convey an inner experience. Of
course, one must
be sensitive to the inner, before the outer can be meaningful. How does one grow
in sensitivity?
M: Whichever way you put it, it comes to the same. Givers there are many; where
are the takers?
Q: Can you not share your own sensitivity?
M: Yes, I can, but sharing is a two-way street. Two are needed in sharing. Who i
s willing to take
what I am willing to give?
Q: You say we are one. Is this not enough?
M: I am one with you. Are you one with me? If you are, you will not ask question
s. If you are not, if
you do not see what I see, what can I do beyond showing you the way to improve y
our vision?
Q: What you cannot give is not your own.
M: I claim nothing as my own. When the 'I' is not, where is the 'mine'?. Two peo
ple look at a tree.
One sees the fruit hidden among the leaves and the other does not. Otherwise the
re is no
difference between the two. The one that sees knows that with a little attention
the other will also
see, but the question of sharing does not arise. Believe me, I am not close-fist
ed, holding back your
share of reality. On the contrary, I am all yours, eat me and drink me. But whil
e you repeat verbally:
'give, give', you do nothing to take what is offered. I am showing you a short a
nd easy way to being
able to see what I see, but you cling to your old habits of thought, feeling and
action and put all the
blame on me. I have nothing which you do not have. Self-knowledge is not a piece
of property to be
offered and accepted. It is a new dimension altogether, where there is nothing t
o give or take.
Q: Give us at least some insight into the content of your mind while you live yo
ur daily life. To eat,
to drink, to talk, to sleep -- how does it feel at your end?
M: The common things of life: I experience them just as you do. The difference l
ies in what I do not
experience. I do not experience fear or greed, hate or anger. I ask nothing, ref
use nothing, keep
nothing. In these matters I do not compromise. Maybe this is the outstanding dif
ference between us.
I will not compromise, I am true to myself, while you are afraid of reality.
Q: From the Westerner's point of view there is something disturbing in your ways
. To sit in a
corner all by oneself and keep on repeating: 'I am God, God I am', appears to be
plain madness.
How to convince a Westerner that such practices lead to supreme sanity?
M: The man who claims to be God and the man who doubts it -- both are deluded. T
hey talk in their
dream.
Q: If all is dreaming, what is waking?
M: How to describe the waking state in dreamland language? Words do not describe
, they are only
symbols.
Q: Again the same excuse that words cannot convey reality.
M: If you want words, I shall give you some of the ancient words of power. Repea
t any of them
ceaselessly; they can work wonders.
Q: Are you serious? Would you tell a Westerner to repeat 'Om' or 'Ram' or 'Hare
Krishna'
ceaselessly, though he lacks completely the faith and conviction born of the rig
ht cultural and
religious background. Without confidence and fervour, repeating mechanically the
same sounds,
will he ever achieve anything?
M: Why not? It is the urge, the hidden motive that matters, not the shape it tak
es. Whatever he
does, if he does it for the sake of finding his own real self, will surely bring
him to himself.
Q: No need of faith in the efficacy of the means?
M: No need of faith which is but expectation of results. Here the action only co
unts. Whatever you
do for the sake of truth, will take you to truth. Only be earnest and honest. Th
e shape it takes hardly
matters.
Q: Then where is the need of giving expression to one's longing?
M: No need. Doing nothing is as good. Mere longing, undiluted by thought and act
ion, pure,
concentrated longing, will take you speedily to your goal. It is the true motive
that matters, not the
manner.
Q: Unbelievable! How can dull repetition in boredom verging on despair, be effec
tive?
M: The very facts of repetition, of struggling on and on and of endurance and pe
rseverance, in
spite of boredom and despair and complete lack of conviction are really crucial.
They are not
important by themselves, but the sincerity behind them is all-important. There m
ust be a push from
within and pull from without.
Q: My questions are typical of the West. There people think in terms of cause an
d effect, means
and goals. They do not see what causal connection can there be between a particu
lar word and the
Absolute Reality.
M: None whatsoever. But there is a connection between the word and its meaning,
between the
action and its motive. Spiritual practice is will asserted and re-asserted. Who
has not the daring will
not accept the real even when offered. Unwillingness born out of fear is the onl
y obstacle.
Q: What is there to be afraid of?
M: The unknown. The not-being, not-knowing, not-doing. The beyond.
Q: You mean to say that while you can share the manner of your achievement, you
cannot share
the fruits?
M: Of course I can share the fruits and I am doing so all the time. But mine is
a silent language.
Learn to listen and understand.
Q: I do not see how one can begin without conviction.
M: Stay with me for some time, or give your mind to what I say and do and convic
tion will dawn.
Q: Not everybody has the chance of meeting you.
M: Meet your own self. Be with your own self, listen to it, obey it, cherish it,
keep it in mind
ceaselessly. You need no other guide. As long as your urge for truth affects you
r daily life, all is well
with you. Live your life without hurting anybody. Harmlessness is a most powerfu
l form of Yoga and
it will take you speedily to your goal. This is what I call nisarga yoga, the Na
tural yoga. It is the art of
living in peace and harmony, in friendliness and love. The fruit of it is happin
ess, uncaused and
endless.
Q: Still, all this presupposes some faith.
M: Turn within and you will come to trust yourself. In everything else confidenc
e comes with
experience.
Q: When a man tells me that he knows something I do not know, I have the right t
o ask: 'what is if
that you know, that I do not know?'
M: And if he tells you that it cannot be conveyed in words?
Q: Then I watch him closely and try to make out.
M: And this is exactly what I want you to do! Be interested, give attention, unt
il a current of mutual
understanding is established. Then the sharing will be easy. As a matter of fact
, all realisation is
only sharing. You enter a wider consciousness and share in it. Unwillingness to
enter and to share
is the only hindrance. I never talk of differences, for to me there are none. Yo
u do, so it is up to you
to show them to me. By all means, show me the differences. For this you will hav
e to understand
me, but then you will no longer talk of differences. Understand one thing well,
and you have arrived.
What prevents you from knowing is not the lack of opportunity, but the lack of a
bility to focus in your
mind what you want to understand. If you could but keep in mind what you do not
know, it would
reveal to you its secrets. But if you are shallow and impatient, not earnest eno
ugh to look and wait,
you are like a child crying for the moon.
39. By Itself Nothing has Existence
Questioner: As I listen to you I find that it is useless to ask you questions. W
hatever the question,
you invariably turn it upon itself and bring me to the basic fact that I am livi
ng in an illusion of my
own making and that reality is inexpressible in words. Words merely add to the c
onfusion and the
only wise course is the silent search within.
Maharaj: After all, it is the mind that creates illusion and it is the mind that
 gets free of it. Words
may aggravate illusion, words may also help dispel it. There is nothing wrong in
repeating the same
truth again and again until it becomes reality. Mother's work is not over with t
he birth of the child.
She feeds it day after day, year after year until it needs her no longer. People
need hearing words,
until facts speak to them louder than words.
Q: So we are children to be fed on words?
M: As long as you give importance to words, you are children.
Q: All right, then be our mother.
M: Where was the child before it was born? Was it not with the mother? Because i
t was already
with the mother it could be born.
Q: Surely, the mother did not carry the child when she was a child herself.
M: Potentially, she was the mother. Go beyond the illusion of time.
Q: Your answer is always the same. A kind of clockwork which strikes the same ho
urs again and
again.
M: It can not be helped. Just like the one sun is reflected in a billion dew dro
ps, so is the timeless
endlessly repeated. When l repeat: 'I am, I am', I merely assert and re-assert a
n ever-present fact.
You get tired of my words because you do not see the living truth behind them. C
ontact it and you
will find the full meaning of words and of silence -- both.
Q: You say that the little girl is already the mother of her future child. Poten
tially -- yes. Actually --
no.
M: The potential becomes actual by thinking. The body and its affairs exist in t
he mind.
Q: And the mind is consciousness in motion and consciousness is the conditioned
(saguna)
aspect of the Self. The unconditioned (nirguna) is another aspect and beyond lie
s the abyss of the
absolute (paramartha).
M: Quite right -- you have put it beautifully.
Q: But these are mere words to me. Hearing and repeating them is not enough, the
y must be
experienced.
M: Nothing stops you but preoccupation with the outer which prevents you from fo
cussing the
inner. It cannot be helped, you cannot skip your sadhana. You have to turn away
from the world and
go within, until the inner and the outer merge and you can go beyond the conditi
oned, whether inner
or outer.
Q: Surely, the unconditioned is merely an idea in the conditioned mind. By itsel
f it has no
existence.
M: By itself nothing has existence. Everything needs its own absence. To be, is
to be
distinguishable, to be here and not there, to be now and not then, to be thus an
d not otherwise. Like
water is shaped by the container, so is everything determined by conditions (gun
as). As water
remains water regardless of the vessels, as light remains itself regardless of t
he colours it brings
out, so does the real remain real, regardless of conditions in which it is refle
cted. Why keep the
reflection only in the focus of consciousness? Why not the real itself?
Q: Consciousness itself is a reflection. How can it hold the real?
M: To know that consciousness and its content are but reflections, changeful and
transient, is the
focussing of the real. The refusal to see the snake in the rope is the necessary
condition for seeing
the rope.
Q: Only necessary, or also sufficient?
M: One must also know that a rope exists and looks like a snake. Similarly, one
must know that the
real exists and is of the nature of witness-consciousness. Of course it is beyon
d the witness, but to
enter it one must first realise the state of pure witnessing. The awareness of c
onditions brings one
to the unconditioned.
Q: Can the unconditioned be experienced?
M: To know the conditioned as conditioned is all that can be said about the unco
nditioned. Positive
terms are mere hints and misleading.
Q: Can we talk of witnessing the real?
M: How can we? We can talk only of the unreal, the illusory, the transient, the
conditioned. To go
beyond, we must pass through total negation of everything as having independent
existence. All
things depend.
Q: On what do they depend?
M: On consciousness. And consciousness depends on the witness.
Q: And the witness depends on the real?
M: The witness is the reflection of the real in all its purity. It depends on th
e condition of the mind.
Where clarity and detachment predominate, the witness-consciousness comes into b
eing. It is just
like saying that where the water is clear and quiet, the image of the moon appea
rs. Or like daylight
that appears as sparkle in the diamond.
Q: Can there be consciousness without the witness?
M: Without the witness it becomes unconsciousness, just living. The witness is l
atent in every state
of consciousness, just like light in every colour. There can be no knowledge wit
hout the knower and
no knower without his witness. Not only you know, but you know that you know.
Q: If the unconditioned cannot be experienced, for all experience is conditioned
, then why talk of it
at all?
M: How can there be knowledge of the conditioned without the unconditioned? Ther
e must be a
source from which all this flows, a foundation on which all stands. Self-realisa
tion is primarily the
knowledge of one's conditioning and the awareness that the infinite variety of c
onditions depends
on our infinite ability to be conditioned and to give rise to variety. To the co
nditioned mind the
unconditioned appears as the totality as well as the absence of everything. Neit
her can be directly
experienced, but this does not make it not-existent.
Q: Is it not a feeling?
M: A feeling too is a state of mind. Just like a healthy body does not call for
attention, so is the
unconditioned free from experience. Take the experience of death. The ordinary m
an is afraid to
die, because he is afraid of change. The jnani is not afraid because his mind is
dead already. He
does not think: 'I live'. He knows: 'There is life'. There is no change in it an
d no death. Death
appears to be a change in time and space. Where there is neither time nor space,
how can there be
death? The jnani is already dead to name and shape. How can their loss affect hi
m? The man in the
train travels from place to place, but the man off the train goes nowhere, for h
e is not bound for a
destination. He has nowhere to go, nothing to do, nothing to become. Those who m
ake plans will be
born to carry them out. Those who make no plans need not be born.
Q: What is the purpose of pain and pleasure?
M: Do they exist by themselves, or only in the mind?
Q: Still, they exist. Never mind the mind.
M: Pain and pleasure are merely symptoms, the results of wrong knowledge and wro
ng feeling. A
result cannot have a purpose of its own.
Q: In God's economy everything must have a purpose.
M: Do you know God that you talk of him so freely? What is God to you? A sound,
a word on
paper, an idea in the mind?
Q: By his power I am born and kept alive.
M: And suffer, and die. Are you glad?
Q: It may be my own fault that I suffer and die. I was created unto life eternal
.
M: Why eternal in the future and not in the past. What has a beginning must have
an end. Only the
beginningless is endless.
Q: God may be a mere concept, a working theory. A very useful concept all the sa
me!
M: For this it must be free of inner contradictions, which is not the case. Why
not work on the
theory that you are your own creation and creator. At least there will be no ext
ernal God to battle
with.
Q: This world is so rich and complex -- how could I create it?
M: Do you know yourself enough to know what you can do and what you cannot? You
do not know
your own powers. You never investigated. Begin with yourself now.
Q: Everybody believes in God.
M: To me you are your own God. But if you think otherwise, think to the end. If
there be God, then
all is God's and all is for the best. Welcome all that comes with a glad and tha
nkful heart. And love
all creatures. This too will take you to your Self.
40. Only the Self is Real
Maharaj: The world is but a show, glittering and empty. It is, and yet is not. I
t is there as long as I
want to see it and take part in it. When I cease caring, it dissolves. It has no
cause and serves no
purpose. It just happens when we are absentminded.
It appears exactly as it looks, but there is no
depth in it, nor meaning. Only the onlooker is real. Call him Self or Atma. To t
he Self the world is but
a colourful show, which he enjoys as long as it lasts and forgets when it is ove
r. Whatever happens
on the stage makes him shudder in terror or roll with laughter, yet all the time
he is aware that it is
but a show. Without desire or fear he enjoys it, as it happens.
Questioner: The person immersed in the world has a life of many flavours. He wee
ps, he laughs,
loves and hates, desires and fears, suffers and rejoices. The desireless and fea
rless jnani, what life
has he? Is he not left high and dry in his aloofness?
M: His state is not so desolate. It tastes of the pure, uncaused, undiluted blis
s. He is happy and
fully aware that happiness is his very nature and that he need not do anything,
nor strive for
anything to secure it. It follows him, more real than the body, nearer than the
mind itself. You
imagine that without cause there can be no happiness. To me dependence on anythi
ng for
happiness is utter misery. Pleasure and pain have causes, while my state is my o
wn, totally
uncaused, independent, unassailable.
Q: Like a play on the stage?
M: The play was written, planned and rehearsed. The world just spouts into being
out of nothing
and returns to nothing.
Q: Is there no creator? Was not the world in the mind of Brahma, before it was c
reated?
M: As long as you are outside my state, you will have Creators, Preservers and D
estroyers, but
once with me you will know the Self only and see yourself in all.
Q: You function nevertheless.
M: When you are giddy, you see the world running circles round you. Obsessed wit
h the idea of
means and end, of work and purpose, you see me apparently functioning. In realit
y I only look.
Whatever is done, is done on the stage. Joy and sorrow life and death, they all
are real to the man
in bondage; to me they are all in the show, as unreal as the show itself.
I may perceive the world just like you, but you believe to be in it, while I see
it as an iridescent drop
in the vast expanse of consciousness.
Q: We are all getting old. Old age is not pleasant -- all aches and pains, weakn
ess and the
approaching end. How does a jnani feel as an old man? How does his inner self lo
ok at his own
senility.
M: As he gets older he grows more and more happy and peaceful. After all, he is
going home. Like
a traveller nearing his destination and collecting his luggage, he leaves the tr
ain without regret.
Q: Surely there is a contradiction. We are told the jnani is beyond all change.
His happiness
neither grows nor wanes. How can he grow happier because older, and that in spit
e of physical
weakness and so on?
M: There is no contradiction. The reel of destiny is coming to its end -- the mi
nd is happy. The mist
of bodily existence is lifting -- the burden of the body is growing less from da
y to day.
Q: Let us say, the jnani is ill. He has caught some flu and every joint aches an
d burns. What is his
state of mind?
M: Every sensation is contemplated in perfect equanimity. There is no desire for
it, nor refusal. It is
as it is and then he looks at it with a smile of affectionate detachment.
Q: He may be detached from his own suffering, but still it is there.
M: It is there, but it does not matter. Whatever state I am in, I see it as a st
ate of mind to be
accepted as it is.
Q: Pain is pain. You experience It all the same.
M: He who experiences the body, experiences its pains and pleasures. I am neithe
r the body, nor
the experiencer of the body.
Q: Let us say you are twenty-five years old. Your marriage is arranged and perfo
rmed, and the
household duties crowd upon you. How would you feel?
M: Just as I feel now. You keep on insisting that my inner state is moulded by o
uter events. It is just
not so. Whatever happens, I remain. At the root of my being is pure awareness, a
speck of intense
light. This speck, by its very nature, radiates and creates pictures in space an
d events in time --
effortlessly and spontaneously. As long as it is merely aware there are no probl
ems. But when the
discriminative mind comes into being and creates distinctions, pleasure and pain
arise. During sleep
the mind is in abeyance and so are pain and pleasure. The process of, creation c
ontinues, but no
notice is taken. The mind is a form of consciousness, and consciousness is an as
pect of life. Life
creates everything but the Supreme is beyond all.
Q: The Supreme is the master and consciousness -- his servant.
M: The master is in consciousness, not beyond it. In terms of consciousness the
Supreme is both
creation and dissolution, concretion and abstraction, the focal and the universa
l. It is also neither.
Words do not reach there, nor mind.
Q: The jnani seems to be a very lonely being, all by himself.
M: He is alone, but he is all. He is not even a being. He is the beingness of al
l beings. Not even
that. No words apply. He is what he is, the ground from which all grows.
Q: Are you not afraid to die?
M: I shall tell you how my Guru's Guru died. After announcing that his end was n
earing, he stopped
eating, without changing the routine of his daily life. On the eleventh day, at
prayer time he was
singing and clapping vigorously and suddenly died! Just like that, between two m
ovements, like a
blown out candle. Everybody dies as he lives. I am not afraid of death, because
I am not afraid of
life. I live a happy life and shall die a happy death. Misery is to be born, not
to die. All depends how
you look at it.
Q: There can be no evidence of your state. All I know about it is what you say.
All I see is a very
interesting old man.
M: You are the interesting old man, not me! I was never born. How can I grow old
? What I appear
to be to you exists only in your mind. I am not concerned with it.
Q: Even as a dream you are a most unusual dream.
M: I am a dream that can wake you up. You will have the proof of it in your very
waking up.
Q: Imagine, news reach you that I have died. Somebody tells you: 'You know so-an
d-so? He died'.
What would be your reaction?
M: I would be very happy to have you back home. Really glad to see you out of th
is foolishness.
Q: Which foolishness?
M: Of thinking that you were born and will die, that you are a body displaying a
mind and all such
nonsense. In my world nobody is born and nobody dies. Some people go on a journe
y and come
back, some never leave. What difference does it make since they travel in dream
lands, each
wrapped up in his own dream. Only the waking up is important. It is enough to kn
ow the 'I am' as
reality and also love.
Q: My approach is not so absolute, hence my question. Throughout the West people
are in search
of something real. They turn to science, which tells them a lot about matter, a
little about the mind
and nothing about the nature and purpose of consciousness. To them reality is ob
jective, outside
the observable and describable, directly or by inference; about the subjective a
spect of reality they
know nothing. It is extremely important to let them know that there is reality a
nd it is to be found in
the freedom of consciousness from matter and its limitations and distortions. Mo
st of the people in
the world just do not know that there is reality which can be found and experien
ced in
consciousness. It seems very important that they should hear the good news from
somebody who
has actually experienced. Such witnesses have always existed and their testimony
is precious.
M: Of course. The gospel of self-realisation, once heard, will never be forgotte
n. Like a seed left in
the ground, it will wait for the right season and sprout and grow into a mighty
tree.
41. Develop the Witness Attitude
Questioner: What is the daily and hourly state of mind of a realised man? How do
es he see, hear,
eat, drink, wake and sleep, work and rest? What proof is there of his state as d
ifferent from ours?
Apart from the verbal testimony of the so-called realised people, is there no wa
y of verifying their
state objectively. Are there not some observable differences in their physiologi
cal and nervous
responses, in their metabolism, or brain waves, or in their psychosomatic struct
ure?
Maharaj: You may find differences, or you may not. All depends on your capacity
of observation.
The objective differences are however, the least important. What matters is thei
r outlook, their
attitude, which is that of total detachment, aloofness, standing apart.
Q: Does not a jnani feel sorrow when his child dies, does he not suffer?
M: He suffers with those who suffer. The event itself is of little importance, b
ut he is full of
compassion for the suffering being, whether alive or dead, in the body or out of
it. After all, love and
compassion are his very nature. He is one with all that lives and love is that o
neness in action.
Q: People are very much afraid of death.
M: The jnani is afraid of nothing. But he pities the man who is afraid. After al
l to be born, to live and
to die is natural. To be afraid is not. To the event, of course, attention is gi
ven.
Q: Imagine you are ill -- high fever, aches, shivers. The doctor tells you the c
ondition is serious,
there are only a few days to live. What would be your first reaction?
M: No reaction. As it is natural for the incense stick to burn out, so it is nat
ural for the body to die.
Really, it is a matter of very little importance. What matters is that I am neit
her the body nor the
mind. I am.
Q: Your family will be desperate, of course. What would you tell them?
M: The usual stuff: fear not, life goes on, God will protect you, we shall be so
on together again and
so on. But to me the entire commotion is meaningless, for I am not the entity th
at imagines itself
alive or dead. I am neither born nor can I die. I have nothing to remember or to
forget.
Q: What about the prayers for the dead?
M: By all means pray for the dead. It pleases them very much. They are flattered
. The jnani does
not need your prayers. He is himself the answer to your prayers.
Q: How does the jnani fare after death?
M: The jnani is dead already. Do you expect him to die again?
Q: Surely, the dissolution of the body is an important event even to a jnani.
M: There are no important events for a jnani, except when somebody reaches the h
ighest goal.
Then only his heart rejoices. All else is of no concern. The entire universe is
his body, all life is his
life. As in a city of lights, when one bulb burns out, it does not affect the ne
twork, so the death of a
body does not affect the whole
Q: The particular may not matter to the whole, but it does matter to the particu
lar. The whole is an
abstraction, the particular, the concrete, is real.
M: That is what you say. To me it may be the other way -- the whole is real, the
part comes and
goes. The particular is born and reborn, changing name and shape, the jnani is t
he Changeless
Reality, which makes the changeful possible. But he cannot give you the convicti
on. It must come
with your own experience. With me all is one, all is equal.
Q: Are sin and virtue one and the same?
M: These are all man-made values! What are they to me? What ends in happiness is
virtue, what
ends in sorrow is sin. Both are states of mind. Mine is not a State of mind.
Q: We are like the blind people at a loss to understand what does it mean to see
.
M: You can put it as you like.
Q: Is the practice of silence as a sadhana effective?
M: Anything you do for the sake of enlightenment takes you nearer. Anything you
do without
remembering enlightenment puts you off. But why complicate? Just know that you a
re above and
beyond all things and thoughts. What you want to be, you are it already. Just ke
ep it in mind.
Q: I hear you saying it, but I cannot believe.
M: I was in the same position myself. But I trusted my Guru and he proved right.
Trust me, if you
can. Keep in mind what I tell you: desire nothing, for you lack nothing. The ver
y seeking prevents
you from finding.
Q: You seem to be so very indifferent to everything!
M: I am not indifferent, I am impartial. I give no preference to the me and the
mine. A basket of
earth and a basket of jewels are both unwanted. Life and death are all the same
to me.
Q: Impartiality makes you indifferent.
M: On the contrary, compassion and love are my very core. Void of all predilecti
ons, I am free to
love.
Q: Buddha said that the idea of enlightenment is extremely important. Most peopl
e go through
their lives not even knowing that there is such a thing as enlightenment, leave
alone the striving for
it. Once they have heard of it, a seed was sown which cannot die. Therefore, he
would send his
bhikhus to preach ceaselessly for eight months every year.
M: 'One can give food, clothes, shelter, knowledge, affection, but the highest g
ift is the gospel of
enlightenment', my Guru used to say. You are right, enlightenment is the highest
good. Once you
have it, nobody can take it away from you.
Q: If you would talk like this in the West, people would take you for mad.
M: Of course, they would! To the ignorant all that they can not understand is ma
dness. What of it?
Let them be as they are. I am as I am, for no merit of mine and they are as they
are, for no fault of
theirs. The Supreme Reality manifests itself in innumerable ways. Infinite in nu
mber are its names
and shapes. All arise, all merge in the same ocean, the source of all is one. Lo
oking for causes and
results is but the pastime of the mind. What is, is lovable. Love is not a resul
t, it is the very ground
of being. Wherever you go, you will find being, consciousness and love. Why and
what for make
preferences?
Q: When by natural causes thousands and millions of lives are extinguished (as i
t happens in
floods and earthquakes), I do not grieve. But when one man dies at the hand of m
an, I grieve
extremely. The inevitable has its own majesty, but killing is avoidable and, the
refore, ugly and
altogether horrible.
M: All happens as it happens. Calamities, whether natural or man-made, happen, a
nd there is no
need to feel horrified.
Q: How can anything be without cause?
M: In every event the entire universe is reflected. The ultimate cause is untrac
eable. The very idea
of causation is only a way of thinking and speaking. We cannot imagine, uncaused
emergence.
This, however, does not prove the existence of causation.
Q: Nature is mindless, hence irresponsible. But man has a mind. Why is it so per
verse?
M: The causes of perversity are also natural -- heredity, environment and so on.
You are too quick
to condemn. Do not worry about others. Deal with your own mind first. When you r
ealise that your
mind too is a part of nature, the duality will cease.
Q: There is some mystery in it which I cannot fathom. How can the mind be a part
of nature?
M: Because nature is in the mind; without the mind where is nature?
Q: If nature is in the mind and the mind is my own, I should be able to control
nature, which is not
really the case. Forces beyond my control determine my behaviour.
M: Develop the witness attitude and you will find in your own experience that de
tachment brings
control. The state of witnessing is full of power, there is nothing passive abou
t it.
42. Reality can not be Expressed
Questioner: I have noticed a new self emerging in me, independent of the old sel
f. They somehow
co-exist. The old self goes on its habitual ways; the new lets the old be, but d
oes not identify itself
with it.
Maharaj: What is the main difference between the old self and the new?
Q: The old self wants everything defined and explained. It wants things to fit e
ach other verbally.
The new does not care for verbal explanations -- it accepts things as they are a
nd does not seek to
relate them to things remembered.
M: Are you fully and constantly aware of the difference between the habitual and
the spiritual. What
is the attitude of the new self to the old?
Q: The new just looks at the old. It is neither friendly nor inimical. It just a
ccepts the old self along
with everything else. It does not deny its being, but does not accept its value
and validity.
M: The new is the total denial of the old. The permissive new is not really new.
It is but a new
attitude of the old. The really new obliterates the old completely. The two cann
ot be together. Is
there a process of self-denudation, a constant refusal to accept the old ideas a
nd values, or is there
just a mutual tolerance? What is their relation?
Q: There is no particular relation. They co-exist.
M: When you talk of the old self and new, whom do you have in mind? As there is
continuity in
memory between the two, each remembering the other, how can you speak of two sel
ves?
Q: One is a slave to habits, the other is not. One conceptualises, the other is
free from all ideas.
M: Why two selves? Between the bound and the free there can be no relationship.
The very fact of
co-existence proves their basic unity. There is but one self -- it is always now
. What you call the
other self -- old or new -- is but a modality, another aspect of the one self. T
he self is single. You are
that self and you have ideas of what you have been or will be. But an idea is no
t the self. Just now,
as you are sitting in front of me, which self are you? The old or the new?
Q: The two are in conflict.
M: How can there be conflict between what is and what is not? Conflict is the ch
aracteristic of the
old. When the new emerges the old is no longer. You cannot speak of the new and
the conflict in
the same breath. Even the effort of striving for the new self is of the old. Whe
rever there is conflict,
effort, struggle, striving, longing for a change, the new is not. To what extent
are you free from the
habitual tendency to create and perpetuate conflicts?
Q: I cannot say that I am now a different man. But I did discover new things abo
ut myself, states
so unlike what I knew before that I feel justified in calling them new.
M: The old self is your own self. The state which sprouts suddenly and without c
ause, carries no
stain of self; you may call it 'god'. What is seedless and rootless, what does n
ot sprout and grow,
flower and fruit, what comes into being suddenly and in full glory, mysteriously
and marvellously,
you may call that 'god'. It is entirely unexpected yet inevitable, infinitely fa
miliar yet most surprising,
beyond all hope yet absolutely certain. Because it is without cause, it is witho
ut hindrance. It obeys
one law only; the law of freedom. Anything that implies a continuity, a sequence
, a passing from
stage to stage cannot be the real. There is no progress in reality, it is final,
perfect, unrelated.
Q: How can I bring it about?
M: You can do nothing to bring it about, but you can avoid creating obstacles. W
atch your mind,
how it comes into being, how it operates. As you watch your mind, you discover y
our self as the
watcher. When you stand motionless, only watching, you discover your self as the
light behind the
watcher. The source of light is dark, unknown is the source of knowledge. That s
ource alone is. Go
back to that source and abide there. It is not in the sky nor in the all-pervadi
ng ether. God is all that
is great and wonderful; I am nothing, have nothing, can do nothing. Yet all come
s out of me -- the
source is me; the root, the origin is me.
When reality explodes in you, you may call it experience of God. Or, rather, it
is God experiencing
you. God knows you when you know yourself. Reality is not the result of a proces
s; it is an
explosion. It is definitely beyond the mind, but all you can do is to know your
mind well. Not that the
mind will help you, but by knowing your mind you may avoid your mind disabling y
ou. You have to
be very alert, or else your mind will play false with you. It is like watching a
thief -- not that you
expect anything from a thief, but you do not want to be robbed. In the same way
you give a lot of
attention to the mind without expecting anything from it.
Or, take another example. We wake and we sleep. After a day's work sleep comes.
Now, do I go to
sleep or does inadvertence -- characteristic of the sleeping state -- come to me
? In other words --
we are awake because we are asleep. We do not wake up into a really waking state
. In the waking
state the world emerges due to ignorance and takes one into a waking-dream state
. Both sleep and
waking are misnomers. We are only dreaming. True waking and true sleeping only t
he jnani knows.
We dream that we are awake, we dream that we are asleep. The three states are on
ly varieties of
the dream state. Treating everything as a dream liberates. As long as you give r
eality to dreams,
you are their slave. By imagining that you are born as so-and-so, you become a s
lave to the so-and-
so. The essence of slavery is to imagine yourself to be a process, to have past
and future, to have
history. In fact, we have no history, we are not a process, we do not develop, n
or decay; also see all
as a dream and stay out of it.
Q: What benefit do I derive from listening to you?
M: I am calling you back to yourself. All I ask you is to look at yourself, towa
rds yourself, into
yourself.
Q: To what purpose?
M: You live, you feel, you think. By giving attention to your living, feeling an
d thinking, you free
yourself from them and go beyond them. Your personality dissolves and only the w
itness remains.
Then you go beyond the witness. Do not ask how it happens. Just search within yo
urself.
Q: What makes the difference between the person and the witness?
M: Both are modes of consciousness. In one you desire and fear, in the other you
are unaffected
by pleasure and pain and are not ruffled by events. You let them come and go.
Q: How does one get established in the higher state, the state of pure witnessin
g?
M: Consciousness does not shine by itself. It shines by a light beyond it. Havin
g seen the
dreamlike quality of consciousness, look for the light in which it appears, whic
h gives it being. There
is the content of consciousness as well as the awareness of it.
Q: I know and I know that I know.
M: Quite so, provided the second knowledge is unconditional and timeless. Forget
the known, but
remember that you are the knower. Don't be all the time immersed in your experie
nces. Remember
that you are beyond the experience ever unborn and deathless. In remembering it,
the quality of
pure knowledge will emerge, the light of unconditional awareness.
Q: At what point does one experience reality?
M: Experience is of change, it comes and goes. Reality is not an event, it canno
t be experienced. It
is not perceivable in the same way as an event is perceivable. If you wait for a
n event to take place,
for the coming of reality, you will wait for ever, for reality neither comes nor
goes. It is to be
perceived, not expected. It is not to be prepared for and anticipated. But the v
ery longing and
search for reality is the movement, operation, action of reality. All you can do
 is to grasp the central
point, that reality is not an event and does not happen and whatever happens, wh
atever comes and
goes, is not reality. See the event as event only, the transient as transient, e
xperience as mere
experience and you have done all you can. Then you are vulnerable to reality, no
longer armoured
against it, as you were when you gave reality to events and experiences. But as
soon as there is
some like or dislike, you have drawn a screen.
Q: Would you say that reality expresses itself in action rather than in knowledg
e? Or, is it a feeling
of sorts?
M: Neither action, nor feeling, nor thought express reality. There is no such th
ing as an expression
of reality. You are introducing a duality where there is none. Only reality is,
there is nothing else.
The three states of waking, dreaming and sleeping are not me and I am not in the
m. When I die, the
world will say -- 'Oh, Maharaj is dead!' But to me these are words without conte
nt; they have no
meaning. When the worship is done before the image of the Guru, all takes place
as if he wakes
and bathes and eats and rests, and goes for a stroll and returns, blesses all an
d goes to sleep. All is
attended to in minutest details and yet there is a sense of unreality about it a
ll. So is the case with
me. All happens as it needs, yet nothing happens. I do what seems to be necessar
y, but at the
same time I know that nothing is necessary, that life itself is only a make-beli
ef.
Q: Why then live at all? Why all this unnecessary coming and going, waking and s
leeping, eating
and digesting?
M: Nothing is done by me, everything just happens I do not expect, I do not plan
, I just watch
events happening, knowing them to be unreal.
Q: Were you always like this from the first moment of enlightenment?
M: The three states rotate as usual -- there is waking and sleeping and waking a
gain, but they do
not happen to me. They just happen. To me nothing ever happens. There is somethi
ng changeless,
motionless, immovable, rocklike, unassailable; a solid mass of pure being-consci
ousness-bliss. I am
never out of it. Nothing can take me out of it, no torture, no calamity.
Q: Yet, you are conscious!
M: Yes and no. There is peace -- deep, immense, unshakeable. Events are register
ed in memory,
but are of no importance. I am hardly aware of them.
Q: If I understand you rightly, this state did not come by cultivation.
M: There was no coming. It was so -- always. There was discovery and it was sudd
en. Just as at
birth you discover the world suddenly, as suddenly I discovered my real being.
Q: Was it clouded over and your sadhana dissolved the mist? When your true state
became clear
to you, did it remain clear, or did it get obscured again? Is your condition per
manent or intermittent?
M: Absolutely steady. Whatever I may do, it stays like a rock -- motionless. Onc
e you have
awakened into reality, you stay in it. A child does not return to the womb! It i
s a simple state, smaller
than the smallest, bigger than the biggest. It is self-evident and yet beyond de
scription.
Q: Is there a way to it?
M: Everything can become a way, provided you are interested. Just puzzling over
my words and
trying to grasp their full meaning is a sadhana quite sufficient for breaking do
wn the wall. Nothing
troubles me. I offer no resistance to trouble -- therefore it does not stay with
me. On your side there
is so much trouble. On mine there is no trouble at all. Come to my side. You are
trouble-prone. I am
immune. Anything may happen -- what is needed is sincere interest. Earnestness d
oes it.
Q: Can I do it?
M: Of course. You are quite capable of crossing over. Only be sincere.
43. Ignorance can be Recognised, not Jnana
Questioner: From year to year your teaching remains the same. There seems to be
no progress in
what you tell us.
Maharaj: In a hospital the sick are treated and get well. The treatment is routi
ne, with hardly any
change, but there is nothing monotonous about health. My teaching may be routine
, but the fruit of it
is new from man to man.
Q: What is realisation? Who is a realised man? By what is the jnani recognised?
M: There are no distinctive marks of jnana. Only ignorance can be recognised, no
t jnana. Nor does
a jnani claim to be something special. AII those who proclaim their own greatnes
s and uniqueness
are not jnanis. They are mistaking some unusual development for realisation. The
jnani shows no
tendency to proclaim himself to be a jnani. He considers himself to be perfectly
normal, true to his
real nature. Proclaiming oneself to be an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipotent
deity is a clear
sign of ignorance.
Q: Can the jnani convey his experience to the ignorant? Can jnana be transmitted
from one man
to another?
M: Yes, it can. The words of a jnani have the power of dispelling ignorance and
darkness in the
mind. It is not the words that matter, but the power behind them.
Q: What is that power?
M: The power of conviction, based on personal realisation, on one's own direct e
xperience.
Q: Some realised people say that knowledge must be won, not got. Another can onl
y teach, but
the learning is one's own.
M: It comes to the same.
Q: There are many who have practiced Yoga for years and years without any result
. What may be
the cause of their failure?
M: Some are addicted to trances, with their consciousness in abeyance. Without f
ull consciousness
what progress can there be?
Q: Many are practicing samadhis (states of rapturous absorption). In samadhis co
nsciousness is
quite intense, yet they do not result in anything.
M: What results do you expect? And why should jnana be the result of anything? O
ne thing leads
to another, but jnana is not a thing to be bound by causes and results. It is be
yond causality
altogether. It is abidance in the self. The Yogi comes to know many wonders, but
of the self he
remains ignorant. The jnani may look and feel quite ordinary, but the self he kn
ows well.
Q: There are many who strive for self-knowledge earnestly, but with scant result
s. What may be
the cause of it?
M: They have not investigated the sources of knowledge sufficiently, their sensa
tions, feelings and
thoughts they do not know well enough. This may be one cause of delay. The other
: some desires
may still be alive.
Q: Ups and downs in sadhana are inevitable. Yet the earnest seeker plods on in s
pite of all. What
can the jnani do for such a seeker?
M: If the seeker is earnest, the light can be given. The light is for all and al
ways there, but the
seekers are few, and among those few, those who are ready are very rare. Ripenes
s of heart and
mind is indispensable.
Q: Did you get your own realisation through effort or by the grace of your Guru?
M: His was the teaching and mine was the trust. My confidence in him made me acc
ept his words
as true, go deep into them, live them, and that is how I came to realise what I
am. The Guru's
person and words made me trust him and my trust made them fruitful.
Q: But can a Guru give realisation without words, without trust, just like this,
without any
preparation?
M: Yes, one can, but where is the taker? You see, I was so attuned to my Guru, s
o completely
trusting him. there was so little of resistance in me, that it all happened easi
ly and quickly. But not
everybody is so fortunate. Laziness and restlessness often stand in the way and
until they are seen
and removed, the progress is slow. All those who have realised on the spot, by m
ere touch, look or
thought, have been ripe for it. But such are very few. The majority needs some t
ime for ripening.
Sadhana is accelerated ripening.
Q: What makes one ripe? What is the ripening factor?
M: Earnestness of course, one must be really anxious. After all, the realised ma
n is the most
earnest man. Whatever he does, he does it completely, without limitations and re
servations.
Integrity will take you to reality.
Q: Do you love the world?
M: When you are hurt, you cry. Why? Because you love yourself. Don't bottle up y
our love by
limiting it to the body, keep it open. It will be then the love for all. When al
l the false selfidentifications
are thrown away, what remains is all-embracing love. Get rid of all ideas about
yourself, even of the idea that you are God. No self-definition is valid.
Q: I am tired of promises. I am tired of sadhanas, which take all my time and en
ergy and bring
nothing. I want reality here and now. Can I have it?
M: Of course you can, provided you are really fed up with everything, including
your sadhanas.
When you demand nothing of the world, nor of God, when you want nothing, seek no
thing, expect
nothing then the Supreme State will come to you uninvited and unexpected!
Q: If a man engrossed in family life and in the affairs of the world does his sa
dhana strictly as
prescribed by his scriptures, will he get results?
M: Results he will get, but he will be wrapped up in them like in a cocoon.
Q: So many saints say that when you are ripe and ready, you will realise. Their
words may be true,
but they are of little use. There must be a way out, independent of ripening whi
ch needs time, of
sadhana which needs effort.
M: Don't call it a way; it is more a kind of skill. It is not even that. Stay op
en and quiet, that is all.
What you seek is so near you, that there is no place for a way.
Q: There are so many ignorant people in the world and so few jnanis. What may be
the cause of it?
M: Don't concern yourself with others, take care of yourself. You know that you
are. Don't burden
yourself with names, just be. Any name or shape you give yourself obscures your
real nature.
Q: Why should seeking end before one can realise?
M: The desire for truth is the highest of all desires, yet, it is still a desire
. All desires must be given
up to the real to be. Remember that you are. This is your working capital. Rotat
e it and there will be
much profit.
Q: Why should there be seeking at all.
M: Life is seeking, one cannot help seeking. When all search ceases, it is the S
upreme State.
Q: Why does the Supreme State come and go?
M: It neither comes nor goes. It is.
Q: Do you speak from your own experience?
M: Of course. It is a timeless state, ever present.
Q: With me it comes and goes, with you it does not. Why this difference?
M: Maybe because I have no desires. Or you do not desire the Supreme strongly en
ough. You
must feel desperate when your mind is out of touch.
Q: All my life I was striving and achieved so little. I was reading, I was liste
ning -- all in vain.
M: Listening and reading became a habit with you.
Q: I gave it up too. I do not read nowadays.
M: What you gave up is of no importance now. What have you not given up?. Find t
hat out and
give up that. Sadhana is a search for what to give up. Empty yourself completely
.
Q: How can a fool desire wisdom? One needs to know the object of desire, to desi
re it. When the
Supreme is not known, how can it be desired?
M: Man naturally ripens and becomes ready for realisation.
Q: But what is the ripening factor?
M: Self-remembrance, awareness of 'l am' ripens him powerfully and speedily. Giv
e up all ideas
about yourself and simply be.
Q: I am tired of all the ways and means and skills and tricks, of all these ment
al acrobatics. Is
there a way to perceive reality directly and immediately?
M: Stop making use of your mind and see what happens. Do this one thing thorough
ly. That is all.
Q: When I was younger, I had strange experiences, short but memorable, of being
nothing, just
nothing, yet fully conscious. But the danger is that one has the desire to recre
ate from memory the
moments that have passed.
M: This is all imagination. In the light of consciousness all sorts of things ha
ppen and one need not
give special importance to any. The sight of a flower is as marvellous as the vi
sion of God. Let them
be. Why remember them and then make memory into a problem? Be bland about them;
do not
divide them into high and low, inner and outer, lasting and transient. Go beyond
, go back to the
source, go to the self that is the same whatever happens. Your weakness is due t
o your conviction
that you were born into the world. In reality the world is ever recreated in you
and by you. See
everything as emanating from the light which is the source of your own being. Yo
u will find that in
that light there is love and infinite energy.
Q: If I am that light, why do I not know it?
M: To know, you need a knowing mind, a mind capable of knowing. But your mind is
ever on the
run, never still, never fully reflecting. How can you see the moon in all her gl
ory when the eye is
clouded with disease?
Q: Can we say that while the sun is the cause of the shadow one cannot see the s
un in the
shadow. One must turn round.
M: Again you have introduced the trinity of the sun, the body and shadow. There
is no such division
in reality. What I am talking about has nothing to do with dualities and triniti
es. Don't mentalise and
verbalise. Just see and be.
Q: Must I see, to be?
M: See what you are. Don't ask others, don't let others tell you about yourself.
Look within and see.
All the teacher can tell you is only this. There is no need of going from one to
another. The same
water is in all the wells. You just draw from the nearest. In my case the water
is within me and I am
the water.
44. 'I am' is True, all else is Inference
Maharaj: The perceiver of the world, is he prior to the world, or does he come i
nto being along with
the world?
Questioner: What a strange question! Why do you ask such questions?
M: Unless you know the correct answer, you will not find peace.
Q: When I wake up in the morning, the world is already there, waiting for me. Su
rely the world
comes into being first. I do, but much later, at the earliest at my birth. The b
ody mediates between
me and the world. Without the body there would be neither me nor the world.
M: The body appears in your mind, your mind is the content of your consciousness
; you are the
motionless witness of the river of consciousness which changes eternally without
changing you in
any way. Your own changelessness is so obvious that you do not notice it. Have a
good look at
yourself and all these misapprehensions and misconceptions will dissolve. Just a
s all the little
watery lives are in water and cannot be without water, so all the universe is in
you and cannot be
without you.
Q: We call it God.
M: God is only an idea in your mind. The fact is you. The only thing you know fo
r sure is: 'here and
now I am'. Remove, the 'here and now' the 'I am' remains, unassailable. The word
exists in memory,
memory comes into consciousness; consciousness exists in awareness and awareness
 is the
reflection of the light on the waters of existence.
Q: Still I do not see how can the world be in me when the opposite 'I am in the
world' is so obvious.
M: Even to say 'I am the world, the world is me', is a sign of ignorance. But wh
en I keep in mind
and confirm in life my identity with the world, a power arises in me which destr
oys the ignorance,
burns it up completely.
Q: Is the witness of ignorance separate from ignorance? Is not to say: 'I am ign
orant' a part of
ignorance?
M: Of course. All I can say truly is: 'I am', all else is inference. But the inf
erence has become a
habit. Destroy all habits of thinking and seeing. The sense 'I am' is the manife
station of a deeper
cause, which you may call self, God, reality or by any other name. The 'I am' is
in the world; but it is
the key which can open the door out of the world. The moon dancing on the water
is seen in the
water, but it is caused by the moon in the sky and not by the water.
Q: Still the main point seems to escape me. l can admit that the world in which
I live and move and
have my being is of my own creation, a projection of myself, of my imagination,
on the unknown
world, the world as it is, the world of 'absolute matter', whatever this matter
may be. The world of my
own creation may be quite unlike the ultimate, the real world, just like the cin
ema screen is quite
unlike the pictures projected onto it. Nevertheless, this absolute world exists,
quite independent of
myself.
M: Quite so, the world of Absolute Reality, onto which your mind has projected a
world of relative
unreality is independent of yourself, for the very simple reason that it is your
self.
Q: Is there no contradiction in terms? How can independence prove identity?
M: Examine the motion of change and you will see. What can change while you do n
ot change, can
be said to be independent of you. But what is changeless must be one with whatev
er else is
changeless. For, duality implies interaction and interaction meats change. In ot
her words, the
absolutely material and the absolutely spiritual, the totally objective and the
totally subjective are
identical, both in substance and essence.
Q: Like in a tri-dimensional picture, the light forms its own screen.
M: Any comparison will do. The main point to grasp is that you have projected on
to yourself a world
of your own imagination, based on memories, on desires and fears, and that you h
ave imprisoned
yourself in it. Break the spell and be free.
Q: How does one break the spell?
M: Assert your independence in thought and action. After all, all hangs on your
faith in yourself, on
the conviction that what you see and hear, think and feel is real. Why not quest
ion your faith? No
doubt, this world is painted by you on the screen of consciousness and is entire
ly your own private
world. Only your sense 'I am', though in the world, is not of the world. By no e
ffort of logic or
imagination can you change the 'I am' into 'I am not'. In the very denial of you
r being you assert it.
Once you realise that the world is your own projection, you are free of it. You
need not free yourself
of a world that does not exist, except in your own imagination! However is the p
icture, beautiful or
ugly, you are painting it and you are not bound by it. realise that there is nob
ody to force it on you,
that it is due to the habit of taking the imaginary to be real. See the Imaginar
y as imaginary and be
free of fear.
Just as the colours in this carpet are brought out by light but light is not the
colour, so is the world
caused by you but you are not the world.
That which creates and sustains the world, you may call it God or providence, bu
t ultimately you are
the proof that God exists, not the other way round. For, before any question abo
ut God can be put,
you must be there to put it.
Q: God is an experience in time, but the experiencer is timeless.
M: Even the experiencer is secondary. Primary is the infinite expanse of conscio
usness, the eternal
possibility, the immeasurable potential of all that was, is, and will be. When y
ou look at anything, it
is the ultimate you see, but you imagine that you see a cloud or a tree.
Learn to look without imagination, to listen without distortion: that is all. St
op attributing names and
shapes to the essentially nameless and formless, realise that every mode of perc
eption is
subjective, that what is seen or heard, touched or smelt, felt or thought, expec
ted or imagined, is in
the mind and not in reality, and you will experience peace and freedom from fear
.
Even the sense of 'I am' is composed of the pure light and the sense of being. T
he 'I' is there even
without the 'am'. So is the pure light there whether you say 'I' or not. Become
aware of that pure
light and you will never lose it. The beingness in being, the awareness in consc
iousness, the
interest in every experience -- that is not describable, yet perfectly accessibl
e, for there is nothing
else.
Q: You talk of reality directly -- as the all-pervading, ever-present, eternal,
all-knowing, all-
energizing first cause. There are other teachers, who refuse to discuss reality
at all. They say reality
is beyond the mind while all discussions are within the realm of the mind, which
is the home of the
unreal. Their approach is negative; they pinpoint the unreal and thus go beyond
it into the real.
M: The difference lies in the words only. After all, when l talk of the real, I
describe it as not-unreal,
space-less, time-less, cause-less, beginning-less and end-less. It comes to the
same. As long as it
leads to enlightenment, what does the wording matter? Does it matter whether you
pull the cart or
push it, as long as it is kept rolling? You may feel attracted to reality at one
time and repelled from
the false at another; these are only moods which alternate; both are needed for
perfect freedom.
You may go one way or another -- but each time it will be the right way at the m
oment; just go
whole-heartedly, don't waste time on doubting or hesitating. Many kinds of food
are needed to make
the child grow, but the act of eating is the same. Theoretically -- all approach
es are good. In
practice, and at a given moment, you proceed by one road only. Sooner or later y
ou are bound to
discover that if you really want to find, you must dig at one place only -- with
in.
Neither your body nor mind can give you what you seek -- the being and knowing y
our self and the
great peace that comes with it.
Q: Surely there is something valid and valuable in every approach.
M: In each case the value lies in bringing you to the need of seeking within. Pl
aying with various
approaches may be due to resistance to going within, to the fear of having to ab
andon the illusion of
being something or somebody in particular. To find water you do not dig small pi
ts all over the
place, but drill deep in one place only. Similarly, to find your self you have t
o explore yourself. When
you realise that you are the light of the world, you will also realise that you
are the love of it; that to
know is to love and to love is to know.
Of all the affections the love of oneself comes first. Your love of the world is
the reflection of your
love of yourself, for your world is of your own creation. Light and love are imp
ersonal, but they are
reflected in your mind as knowing and wishing oneself well. We are always friend
ly towards
ourselves. but not always wise. A Yogi is a man whose goodwill is allied to wisd
om.
45. What Comes and Goes has no Being
Questioner: I have come to be with you, rather than to listen. Little can be sai
d in words, much
more can be conveyed in silence.
Maharaj: First words, then silence. One must be ripe for silence.
Q: Can I live in silence?
M: Unselfish work leads to silence, for when you work selflessly, you don't need
to ask for help.
Indifferent to results, you are willing to work with the most inadequate means.
You do not care to be
much gifted and well equipped. Nor do you ask for recognition and assistance. Yo
u just do what
needs be done, leaving success and failure to the unknown. For everything is cau
sed by
innumerable factors, of which your personal endeavour is but one. Yet such is th
e magic of man's
mind and heart that the most improbable happens when human will and love pull to
gether.
Q: What is wrong with asking for help when the work is worthy?
M: Where is the need of asking? It merely shows weakness and anxiety. Work on, a
nd the
universe will work with you. After all the very idea of doing the right thing co
mes to you from the
unknown. Leave it to the unknown as far as the results go, just go through the n
ecessary
movements. You are merely one of the links in the long chain of causation. Funda
mentally, all
happens in the mind only. When you work for something whole-heartedly and steadi
ly, it happens,
for it is the function of the mind to make things happen. In reality nothing is
lacking and nothing is
needed, all work is on the surface only. In the depths there is perfect peace. A
ll your problems arise
because you have defined and therefore limited yourself. When you do not think y
ourself to be this
or that, all conflict ceases. Any attempt to do something about your problems is
bound to fail, for
what is caused by desire can be undone only in freedom from desire. You have enc
losed yourself in
time and space, squeezed yourself into the span of a lifetime and the volume of
a body and thus
created the innumerable conflicts of life and death, pleasure and pain, hope and
fear. You cannot
be rid of problems without abandoning illusions.
Q: A person is naturally limited.
M: There is no such thing as a person. There are only restrictions and limitatio
ns. The sum total of
these defines the person. You think you know yourself when you know what you are
. But you never
know who you are. The person merely appears to be, like the space within the pot
appears to have
the shape and volume and smell of the pot. See that you are not what you believe
yourself to be.
Fight with all the strength at your disposal against the idea that you are namea
ble and describable.
You are not. Refuse to think of yourself in terms of this or that. There is no o
ther way out of misery,
which you have created for yourself through blind acceptance without investigati
on. Suffering is a
call for enquiry, all pain needs investigation. Don't be too lazy to think.
Q: Activity is the essence of reality. There is no virtue in not working. Along
with thinking
something must be done.
M: To work in the world is hard, to refrain from all unnecessary work is even ha
rder.
Q: For the person I am all this seems impossible.
M: What do you know about yourself? You can only be what you are in reality; you
can only appear
what you are not. You have never moved away from perfection. All idea of self-im
provement is
conventional and verbal. As the sun knows not darkness, so does the self know no
t the non-self. It
is the mind, which by knowing the other, becomes the other. Yet the mind is noth
ing else but the
self. It is the self that becomes the other, the notself,
and yet remains the self. All else is an
assumption. Just as a cloud obscures the sun without in any way affecting it, so
does assumption
obscure reality without destroying it. The very idea of destruction of reality i
s ridiculous; the
destroyer is always more real than the destroyed. Reality is the ultimate destro
yer. All separation,
every kind of estrangement and alienation is false. All is one -- this is the ul
timate solution of every
conflict.
Q: How is it that in spite of so much instruction and assistance we make no prog
ress?
M: As long as we imagine ourselves to be separate personalities, one quite apart
from another, we
cannot grasp reality which is essentially impersonal. First we must know ourselv
es as witnesses
only, dimensionless and timeless centres of observation, and then realise that i
mmense ocean of
pure awareness, which is both mind and matter and beyond both.
Q: Whatever I may be in reality, yet I feel myself to be a small and separate pe
rson, one amongst
many.
M: Your being a person is due to the illusion of space and time; you imagine you
rself to be at a
certain point occupying a certain volume; your personality is due to your self-i
dentification with the
body. Your thoughts and feelings exist in succession, they have their span in ti
me and make you
imagine yourself, because of memory, as having duration. In reality time and spa
ce exist in you; you
do not exist in them. They are modes of perception, but they are not the only on
es. Time and space
are like words written on paper; the paper is real, the words merely a conventio
n. How old are you?
Q: Forty-eight!
M: What makes you say forty-eight? What makes you say: I am here? Verbal habits
born from
assumptions. The mind creates time and space and takes its own creations for rea
lity. All is here
and now, but we do not see it. Truly, all is in me and by me. There is nothing e
lse. The very idea of
'else' is a disaster and a calamity.
Q: What is the cause of personification, of self-limitation in time and space?
M: That which does not exist cannot have a cause. There is no such thing as a se
parate person.
Even taking the empirical point of view, it is obvious that everything is the ca
use of everything, that
everything is as it is, because the entire universe is as it is.
Q: Yet personality must have a cause.
M: How does personality, come into being? By memory. By identifying the present
with the past
and projecting it into the future. Think of yourself as momentary, without past
and future and your
personality dissolves.
Q: Does not 'I am' remain?
M: The word 'remain' does not apply. 'I am' is ever afresh. You do not need to r
emember in order to
be. As a matter of fact, before you can experience anything, there must be the s
ense of being. At
present your being is mixed up with experiencing. All you need is to unravel bei
ng from the tangle of
experiences. Once you have known pure being, without being this or that, you wil
l discern it among
experiences and you will no longer be misled by names and forms.
Self-limitation is the very essence of personality.
Q: How can I become universal?
M: But you are universal. You need not and you cannot become what you are alread
y. Only cease
imagining yourself to be the particular. What comes and goes has no being. It ow
es its very
appearance to reality. You know that there is a world, but does the world know y
ou? All knowledge
flows from you, as all being and all joy. realise that you are the eternal sourc
e and accept all as your
own. Such acceptance is true love.
Q: All you say sounds very beautiful. But how has one to make it into a way of l
iving?
M: Having never left the house you are asking for the way home. Get rid of wrong
ideas, that is all.
Collecting right ideas also will take you nowhere. Just cease imagining.
Q: It is not a matter of achievement, but of understanding.
M: Don't try to understand! Enough if you do not misunderstand. Don't rely on yo
ur mind for
liberation. It is the mind that brought you into bondage. Go beyond it altogethe
r.
What is beginningless cannot have a cause. It is not that you knew what you are
and then you have
forgotten. Once you know, you cannot forget. Ignorance has no beginning, but can
have an end.
Enquire: who is ignorant and ignorance will dissolve like a dream. The world is
full of contradictions,
hence your search for harmony and peace. These you cannot find in the world, for
the world is the
child of chaos. To find order you must search within. The world comes into being
only when you are
born in a body. No body -- no world. First enquire whether you are the body. The
understanding of
the world will come later.
Q: What you say sounds convincing, but of what use is it to the private person,
who knows itself to
be in the world and of the world?
M: Millions eat bread, but few know all about wheat. And only those who know can
improve the
bread. Similarly, only those who know the self, who have seen beyond the world,
can improve the
world. Their value to private persons is immense, for they are their only hope o
f salvation. What is in
the world cannot save the world; if you really care to help the world you must s
tep out of it.
Q: But can one step out of the world?
M: Who was born first, you or the world? As long as you give first place to the
world, you are bound
by it; once you realise, beyond all trace of doubt that the world is in you and
not you in the world,
you are out of it. Of course your body remains in the world and of the world, bu
t you are not deluded
by it. All scriptures say that before the world was, the Creator was. Who knows
the Creator? He
alone who was before the Creator, your own real being, the source of all the wor
lds with their
creators.
Q: All you say is held together by your assumption that the world is your own pr
ojection. You admit
that you mean your personal, subjective world, the world given you through your
senses and your
mind. In that sense each one of us lives in a world of his own projection. These
private worlds
hardly touch each other and they arise from and merge into the 'I am' at their c
entre. But surely
behind these private worlds there must be a common objective world, of which the
private worlds
are mere shadows. Do you deny the existence of such an objective world, common t
o all?
M: Reality is neither subjective nor objective, neither mind nor matter, neither
time nor space.
These divisions need somebody to whom to happen, a conscious separate centre. Bu
t reality is all
and nothing, the totality and the exclusion, the fullness and the emptiness, ful
ly consistent,
absolutely paradoxical. You cannot speak about it, you can only lose your self i
n it. When you deny
reality to anything, you come to a residue which cannot be denied .
All talk of jnana is a sign of ignorance. It is the mind that imagines that it d
oes not know and then
comes to know. Reality knows nothing of these contortions. Even the idea of God
as the Creator is
false. Do I owe my being to any other being? Because I am, all is.
Q: How can it be? A child is born into the world, not the world into the child.
The world is old and
the child is new.
M: The child is born into your world. Now, were you born into your world, or did
your world appear
to you? To be born means to create a world round yourself as the centre. But do
you ever create
yourself? Or did anyone create you? Everyone creates a world for himself and liv
es in it, imprisoned
by one's ignorance. All we have to do is to deny reality to our prison.
Q: Just as the waking state exists in seed form during sleep, so does the world
the child creates
on being born exist before its birth. With whom does the seed lie?
M: With him who is the witness of birth and death, but is neither born nor dies.
He alone is the seed
of creation as well as its residue. Don't ask the mind to confirm what is beyond
the mind. Direct
experience is the only valid confirmation.
46. Awareness of Being is Bliss
Questioner: By profession I am a physician. I began with surgery, continued with
psychiatry and
also wrote some books on mental health and healing by faith. I came to you to le
arn the laws of
spiritual health.
Maharaj: When you are trying to cure a patient, what exactly are you trying to c
ure? What is cure?
When can you say that a man is cured?
Q: I seek to cure the body as well as improve the link between the body and the
mind. I also seek
to set right the mind.
M: Did you investigate the connection between the mind and the body? At what poi
nt are they
connected?
Q: Between the body and the indwelling consciousness lies the mind.
M: Is not the body made of food? And can there be a mind without food?
Q: The body is built and maintained by food. Without food the mind usually goes
weak. But the
mind is not mere food. There is a transforming factor which creates a mind in th
e body. What is that
transforming factor?
M: Just like the wood produces fire which is not wood, so does the body produce
the mind which is
not the body. But to whom does the mind appear? Who is the perceiver of the thou
ghts and feelings
which you call the mind? There is wood, there is fire and there is the enjoyer o
f the fire. Who enjoys
the mind? Is the enjoyer also a result of food, or is it independent?
Q: The perceiver is independent.
M: How do you know? Speak from your own experience. You are not the body nor the
mind. You
say so. How do you know?
Q: I really do not know. I guess so.
M: Truth is permanent. The real is changeless. What changes is not real, what is
real does not
change. Now, what is it in you that does not change? As long as there is food, t
here is body and
mind. When the food is stopped, the body dies and the mind dissolves. But does t
he observer
perish?
Q: I guess it does not. But I have no proof.
M: You yourself are the proof. You have not, nor can you have any other proof. Y
ou are yourself,
you know yourself, you love yourself. Whatever the mind does, it does for the lo
ve of its own self.
The very nature of the self is love. It is loved, loving and lovable. It is the
self that makes the body
and the mind so interesting,
so very dear. The very attention given to them comes from the self.
Q: If the self is not the body nor the mind, can it exist without the body and t
he mind?
M: Yes, it can. It is a matter of actual experience that the self has being inde
pendent of mind and
body. It is being -- awareness -- bliss. Awareness of being is bliss.
Q: It may be a matter of actual experience to you, but it is not my case. How ca
n I come to the
same experience? What practices to follow, what exercises to take up?
M: To know that you are neither body nor mind, watch yourself steadily and live
unaffected by your
body and mind, completely aloof, as if you were dead. It means you have no veste
d interests, either
in the body or in the mind.
Q: Dangerous!
M: I am not asking you to commit suicide. Nor can you. You can only kill the bod
y, you cannot stop
the mental process, nor can you put an end to the person you think you are. Just
remain unaffected.
This complete aloofness, unconcern with mind and body is the best proof that at
the core of your
being you are neither mind nor body. What happens to the body and the mind may n
ot be within
your power to change, but you can always put an end to your imagining yourself t
o be body and
mind. Whatever
happens, remind yourself that only your body and mind are affected, not yourself
.
The more earnest you are at remembering what needs to be remembered, the sooner
will you be
aware of yourself as you are, for memory will become experience. Earnestness rev
eals being. What
is imagined and willed becomes actuality -- here lies the danger as well as the
way out.
Tell me, what steps have you taken to separate your real self, that in you which
is changeless, from
your body and mind?
Q: I am a medical man, I have studied a lot, I imposed on myself a strict discip
line in the way of
exercises and periodical fasts and I am a vegetarian.
M: But in the depth of your heart what is it that you want?
Q: I want to find reality.
M: What price are you willing to pay for reality? Any price?
Q: While in theory I am ready to pay any price, in actual life again and again I
am being prompted
to behave in ways which come in between me and reality. Desire carries me away.
M: Increase and widen your desires till nothing but reality can fulfil them. It
is not desire that is
wrong, but its narrowness and smallness. Desire is devotion. By all means be dev
oted to the real,
the infinite, the eternal heart of being. Transform desire into love. All you wa
nt is to be happy. All
your desires, whatever they may be, are expressions of your longing for happines
s. Basically, you
wish yourself well.
Q: I know that I should not
M: Wait! Who told you that you should not? What is wrong with wanting to be happ
y?
Q: The self must go, l know.
M: But the self is there. Your desires are there. Your longing to be happy is th
ere. Why? Because
you love yourself. By all means love yourself -- wisely. What is wrong is to lov
e yourself stupidly, so
as to make yourself suffer. Love yourself wisely. Both indulgence and austerity
have the same
purpose in view -- to make you happy. Indulgence is the stupid way, austerity is
the wise way.
Q: What is austerity?
M: Once you have gone through an experience, not to go through it again is auste
rity. To eschew
the unnecessary is austerity. Not to anticipate pleasure or pain Is austerity. H
aving things under
control at all times is austerity. Desire by itself is not wrong. It is life its
elf, the urge to grow in
knowledge and experience.
It is the choices you make that are wrong. To imagine that some little thing --
food. sex, power, fame
-- will make you happy is to deceive yourself. Only something as vast and deep a
s your real self can
make you truly and lastingly happy.
Q: Since there is nothing basically wrong in desire as an expression of love of
self, how should
desire be managed?
M: Live your life intelligently, with the interests of your deepest self always
in mind. After all, what
do you really want? Not perfection; you are already perfect. What you seek is to
express in action
what you are. For this you have a body and a mind. Take them in hand and make th
em serve you.
Q: Who is the operator here? Who is to take the body-mind in hand?
M: The purified mind is the faithful servant of the self. It takes charge of the
instruments, inner and
outer, and makes them serve their purpose.
Q: And what is their purpose?
M: The self is universal and its aims are universal. There is nothing personal a
bout the self. Live an
orderly life, but don't make it a goal by itself. It should be the starting poin
t for high adventure.
Q: Do you advise me to come to India repeatedly?
M: If you are earnest, you don't need moving about. You are yourself wherever yo
u are and you
create your own climate. Locomotion and transportation will not give you salvati
on. You are not the
body and dragging the body from place to place will take you nowhere. Your mind
is free to roam
the three worlds -- make full use of it.
Q: If I am free, why am I in a body?
M: you are not in the body, the body is in you! The mind is in you. They happen
to you. They are
there because you find them interesting. Your very nature has the infinite capac
ity to enjoy. It is full
of zest and affection. It sheds its radiance on all that comes within its focus
of awareness and
nothing is excluded. It does not know evil nor ugliness, it hopes, it trusts, it
loves. You people do not
know how much you miss by not knowing your own true self. You are neither the bo
dy nor the mind,
neither the fuel nor the fire. They appear and disappear according to their own
laws.
That which you are, your true self, you love it, and whatever you do, you do for
your own happiness.
To find it, to know it, to cherish it is your basic urge. Since time immemorial
you loved yourself, but
never wisely. Use your body and mind wisely in the service of the self, that is
all. Be true to your
own self, love your self absolutely. Do not pretend that you love others as your
self. Unless you have
realised them as one with yourself, you cannot love them Don't pretend to be wha
t you are not,
don't refuse to be what you are. Your love of others is the result of self-knowl
edge, not its cause.
Without self-realisation, no virtue is genuine. When you know beyond all doubtin
g that the same life
flows through all that is and you are that life, you will love all naturally and
spontaneously. When
you realise the depth and fullness of your love of yourself, you know that every
living being and the
entire universe are included in your affection. But when you look at anything as
separate from you,
you cannot love it for you are afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and fear dee
pens alienation. It is a
vicious circle. Only self-realisation can break it. Go for it resolutely.
47. Watch Your Mind
Questioner: In one's search for the essential, one soon realises one's inadequac
y and the need for
a guide or a teacher. This implies a certain discipline for you are expected to
trust your guide and
follow implicitly his advice and instruction. Yet the social urgencies and press
ures are so great,
personal desires and fears so powerful, that the simplicity of mind and will, es
sential in obedience,
are not forthcoming. How to strike a balance between the need for a Guru and the
difficulty in
obeying him implicitly?
Maharaj: What is done under pressure of society and circumstances does not matte
r much, for it is
mostly mechanical, mere reacting to impacts. It is enough to watch oneself dispa
ssionately to
isolate oneself completely from what is going on. What has been done without min
ding, blindly, may
add to one's karma (destiny), otherwise it hardly matters. The Guru demands one
thing only; clarity
and intensity of purpose, a sense of responsibility for oneself. The very realit
y of the world must be
questioned. Who is the Guru, after all? He who knows the state in which there is
neither the world
nor the thought of it, he is the Supreme Teacher. To find him means to reach the
state in which
imagination is no longer taken for reality. Please, understand that the Guru sta
nds for reality, for
truth, for what is. He is a realist in the highest sense of the term. He cannot
and shall not come to
terms with the mind and its delusions. He comes to take you to the real; don't e
xpect him to do
anything else.
The Guru you have in mind, one who gives you information and instructions, is no
t the real Guru.
The real Guru is he who knows the real, beyond the glamour of appearances. To hi
m your
questions about obedience and discipline do not make sense, for in his eyes the
person you take
yourself to be does not exist, your questions are about a non-existing person. W
hat exists for you
does not exist for him. What you take for granted, he denies absolutely. He want
s you to see
yourself as he sees you. Then you will not need a Guru to obey and follow, for y
ou will obey and
follow your own reality. realise that whatever you think yourself to be is just
a stream of events; that
while all happens, comes and goes, you alone are, the changeless among the chang
eful, the self-
evident among the inferred. Separate the observed from the observer and abandon
false
identifications.
Q: In order to find the reality, one should discard all that stands in the way.
On the other hand, the
need to survive within a given society compels one to do and endure many things.
Does one need
to abandon one's profession and one's social standing in order to find reality?
M: Do your work. When you have a moment free, look within. What is important is
not to miss the
opportunity when it presents itself. If you are earnest you will use your leisur
e fully. That is enough.
Q: In my search for the essential and discarding the unessential, is there any s
cope for creative
living? For instance, I love painting. Will it help me if I give my leisure hour
s to painting?
M: Whatever you may have to do, watch your mind. Also you must have moments of c
omplete
inner peace and quiet, when your mind is absolutely still. If you miss it, you m
iss the entire thing. If
you do not, the silence of the mind will dissolve and absorb all else.
Your difficulty lies in your wanting reality and being afraid of it at the same
time. You are afraid of it
because you do not know it. The familiar things are known, you feel secure with
them. The unknown
is uncertain and therefore dangerous. But to know reality is to be in harmony wi
th it. And in harmony
there is no place for fear.
An infant knows its body, but not the body-based distinctions. It is just consci
ous and happy. After
all, that was the purpose for which it was born. The pleasure to be is the simpl
est form of self-love,
which later grows into love of the self. Be like an infant with nothing standing
between the body and
the self. The constant noise of the psychic life is absent. In deep silence the
self contemplates the
body. It is like the white paper on which nothing is written yet. Be like that i
nfant, instead of trying to
be this or that, be happy to be. You will be a fully awakened witness of the fie
ld of consciousness.
But there should be no feelings and ideas to stand between you and the field.
Q: To be content with mere being seems to be a most selfish way of passing time.
M: A most worthy way of being selfish! By all means be selfish by foregoing ever
ything but the Self.
When you love the Self and nothing else, you go beyond the selfish and the unsel
fish. All
distinctions lose their meaning. Love of one and love of all merge together in l
ove, pure and simple,
addressed to none, denied to none. Stay in that love, go deeper and deeper into
it, investigate
yourself and love the investigation and you will solve not only your own problem
s but also the
problems of humanity. You will know what to do. Do not ask superficial questions
; apply yourself to
fundamentals, to the very roots of your being.
Q: Is there a way for me to speed up my self-realisation?
M: Of course there is.
Q: Who will do this speeding up? Will you do it for me?
M: Neither you will do it, nor me. It will just happen.
Q: My very coming here has proved it. Is this speeding up due to holy company? W
hen I left last
time, I hoped to come back. And I did! Now I am desperate that so soon I have to
leave for England.
M: You are like a newly born child. It was there before but not conscious of its
being. At its birth a
world arose in it, and with it the consciousness of being. Now you have just to
grow in
consciousness, that is all. The child is the king of the world -- when it grows
up, it takes charge of its
kingdom. Imagine that in its infancy it fell seriously ill and the physician cur
ed it. Does it mean that
the young king owes his kingdom to the physician? Only, perhaps as one of the co
ntributing factors.
There were so many others; all contributed. But the main factor, the most crucia
l, was the fact of
being born the son of a king. Similarly, the Guru may help. But the main thing t
hat helps is to have
reality within. It will assert itself. Your coming here definitely helped you. I
t is not the only thing that
is going to help you. The main thing is your own being. Your very earnestness te
stifies to it.
Q: Does my pursuing a vocation deny my earnestness?
M: I told you already. As long as you allow yourself an abundance of moments of
peace, you can
safely practice your most honourable profession. These moments of inner quiet wi
ll burn out all
obstacles without fail. Don't doubt its efficacy. Try it.
Q: But, I did try!
M: Never faithfully, never steadily. Otherwise you would not be asking such ques
tions. You are
asking because you are not sure of yourself. And you are not sure of yourself be
cause you never
paid attention to yourself, only to your experiences. Be interested in yourself
beyond all experience,
be with yourself, love yourself; the ultimate security is found only in self-kno
wledge. The main thing
is earnestness. Be honest with yourself and nothing will betray you. Virtues and
powers are mere
tokens for children to play with. They are useful in the world, but do not take
you out of it. To go
beyond, you need alert immobility, quiet attention.
Q: What then becomes of one's physical being?
M: As long as you are healthy, you live on.
Q: This life of inner immobility, will it not affect one's health?
M: Your body is food transformed. As your food, gross and subtle, so will be you
r health.
Q: And what happens to the sex instinct? How can it be controlled?
M: Sex is an acquired habit. Go beyond. As long as your focus is on the body, yo
u will remain in
the clutches of food and sex, fear and death. Find yourself and be free.
48. Awareness is Free
Questioner: I have just arrived from Sri Ramanashram. I have spent seven months
there.
Maharaj: What practice were you following at the Ashram?
Q: As far as I could, I concentrated on the 'Who am l'?
M: Which way were you doing it? Verbally?
Q: In my free moments during the course of the day. Sometimes I was murmuring to
myself 'Who
am l?' 'I am, but who am l?' Or, I did it mentally. Occasionally I would have so
me nice feeling, or get
into moods of quiet happiness. On the whole I was trying to be quiet and recepti
ve, rather than
labouring for experiences.
M: What were you actually experiencing when you were in the right mood?
Q: A sense of inner stillness, peace and silence.
M: Did you notice yourself becoming unconscious?
Q: Yes, occasionally and for a very short time. Otherwise I was just quiet, inwa
rdly and outwardly.
M: What kind of quiet was it? Something akin to deep sleep, yet conscious all th
e same. A sort of
wakeful sleep?
Q: Yes. Alertly asleep. (jagrit-sushupti).
M: The main thing is to be free of negative emotions -- desire, fear etc., the '
six enemies' of the
mind. Once the mind is free of them, the rest will come easily. Just as cloth ke
pt in soap water will
become clean, so will the mind get purified in the stream of pure feeling.
When you sit quiet and watch yourself, all kinds of things may come to the surfa
ce. Do nothing
about them, don't react to them; as they have come so will they go, by themselve
s. All that matters
is mindfulness, total awareness of oneself or rather, of one's mind.
Q: By 'oneself' do you mean the daily self?
M: Yes, the person, which alone is objectively observable. The observer is beyon
d observation.
What is observable is not the real self.
Q: I can always observe the observer, in endless recession.
M: You can observe the observation, but not the observer. You know you are the u
ltimate observer
by direct insight, not by a logical process based on observation. You are what y
ou are, but you
know what you are not. The self is known as being, the not-self is known as tran
sient. But in reality
all is in the mind. The observed, observation and observer are mental constructs
. The self alone is.
Q: Why does the mind create all these divisions?
M: To divide and particularise is in the mind's very nature. There is no harm in
dividing. But
separation goes against fact. Things and people are different, but they are not
separate. Nature is
one, reality is one. There are opposites, but no opposition.
Q: I find that by nature I am very active. Here I am advised to avoid activity.
The more I try to
remain inactive, the greater the urge to do something. This makes me not only ac
tive outwardly, but
also struggling inwardly to be what by nature I am not. Is there a remedy agains
t longing for work?
M: There is a difference between work and mere activity. All nature works. Work
is nature, nature is
work. On the other hand, activity is based on desire and fear, on longing to pos
sess and enjoy, on
fear of pain and annihilation. Work is by the whole for the whole, activity is b
y oneself for oneself.
Q: Is there a remedy against activity?
M: Watch it, and it shall cease. Use every opportunity to remind yourself that y
ou are in bondage,
that whatever happens to you is due to the fact of your bodily existence. Desire
, fear, trouble, joy,
they cannot appear unless you are there to appear to. Yet, whatever happens, poi
nts to your
existence as a perceiving centre. Disregard the pointers and be aware of what th
ey are pointing to.
It is quite simple, but it needs be done. What matters is the persistence with w
hich you keep on
returning to yourself.
Q: I do get into peculiar states of deep absorption into myself, but unpredictab
ly and momentarily. I
do not feel myself to be in control of such states.
M: The body is a material thing and needs time to change. The mind is but a set
of mental habits,
of ways of thinking and feeling, and to change they must be brought to the surfa
ce and examined.
This also takes time. Just resolve and persevere, the rest will take care of its
elf.
Q: I seem to have a clear idea of what needs be done, but I find myself getting
tired and
depressed and seeking human company and thus wasting time that should be given t
o solitude and
meditation.
M: Do what you feel like doing. Don't bully yourself. Violence will make you har
d and rigid. Do not
fight with what you take to be obstacles on your way. Just be interested in them
, watch them,
observe, enquire. Let anything happen -- good or bad. But don't let yourself be
submerged by what
happens.
Q: What is the purpose in reminding oneself all the time that one is the watcher
?
M: The mind must learn that beyond the moving mind there is the background of aw
areness, which
does not change. The mind must come to know the true self and respect it and cea
se covering it up,
like the moon which obscures the sun during solar eclipse. Just realise that not
hing observable, or
experienceable is you, or binds you. Take no notice of what is not yourself.
Q: To do what you tell me I must be ceaselessly aware.
M: To be aware is to be awake. Unaware means asleep. You are aware anyhow, you n
eed not try
to be. What you need is to be aware of being aware. Be aware deliberately and co
nsciously,
broaden and deepen the field of awareness. You are always conscious of the mind,
but you are not
aware of yourself as being conscious.
Q: As I can make out, you give distinct meanings to the words 'mind', 'conscious
ness', and
'awareness'.
M: Look at it this way. The mind produces thoughts ceaselessly, even when you do
not look at
them. When you know what is going on in your mind, you call it consciousness. Th
is is your waking
state -- your consciousness shifts from sensation to sensation, from perception
to perception, from
idea to idea, in endless succession. Then comes awareness, the direct insight in
to the whole of
consciousness, the totality of the mind. The mind is like a river, flowing cease
lessly in the bed of the
body; you identify yourself for a moment with some particular ripple and call it
: 'my thought'. All you
are conscious of is your mind; awareness is the cognisance of consciousness as a
whole.
Q: Everybody is conscious, but not everybody is aware.
M: Don't say: 'everybody is conscious'. Say: 'there is consciousness', in which
everything appears
and disappears. Our minds are just waves on the ocean of consciousness. As waves
they come
and go. As ocean they are infinite and eternal. Know yourself as the ocean of be
ing, the womb of all
existence. These are all metaphors of course; the reality is beyond description.
You can know it
only by being it.
Q: Is the search for it worth the trouble?
M: Without it all is trouble. If you want to live sanely, creatively and happily
and have infinite riches
to share, search for what you are.
While the mind is centred in the body and consciousness is centred in the mind,
awareness is free.
The body has its urges and mind its pains and pleasures. Awareness is unattached
and unshaken.
It is lucid, silent, peaceful, alert and unafraid, without desire and fear. Medi
tate on it as your true
being and try to be it in your daily life, and you shall realise it in its fulln
ess.
Mind is interested in what happens, while awareness is interested in the mind it
self. The child is
after the toy, but the mother watches the child, not the toy.
By looking tirelessly, I became quite empty and with that emptiness all came bac
k to me except the
mind. I find I have lost the mind irretrievably.
Q: As you talk to us just now, are you unconscious?
M: I am neither conscious nor unconscious, I am beyond the mind and its various
states and
conditions. Distinctions are created by the mind and apply to the mind only. I a
m pure
Consciousness itself, unbroken awareness of all that is. I am in a more real sta
te than yours. I am
undistracted by the distinctions and separations which constitute a person. As l
ong as the body
lasts, it has its needs like any other, but my mental process has come to an end
.
Q: You behave like a person who thinks.
M: Why not? But my thinking, like my digestion, is unconscious and purposeful.
Q: If your thinking is unconscious, how do you know that it is right?
M: There is no desire, nor fear to thwart it. What can make it wrong? Once I kno
w myself and what
I stand for, I do not need to check on myself all the time. When you know that y
our watch shows
correct time, you do not hesitate each time you consult it.
Q: At this very moment who talks, if not the mind?
M: That which hears the question, answers it.
Q: But who is it?
M: Not who, but what. I'm not a person in your sense of the word, though I may a
ppear a person to
you. I am that infinite ocean of consciousness in which all happens. I am also b
eyond all existence
and cognition, pure bliss of being. There is nothing I feel separate from, hence
I am all. No thing is
me, so I am nothing.
The same power that makes the fire burn and the water flow, the seeds sprout and
the trees grow,
makes me answer your questions. There is nothing personal about me, though the l
anguage and
the style may appear personal. A person is a set pattern of desires and thoughts
and resulting
actions; there is no such pattern in my case. There is nothing I desire or fear
-- how can there be a
pattern?
Q: Surely, you will die.
M: Life will escape, the body will die, but it will not affect me in the least.
Beyond space and time I
am, uncaused, uncausing, yet the very matrix of existence.
Q: May I be permitted to ask how did you arrive at your present condition?
M: My teacher told me to hold on to the sense 'I am' tenaciously and not to swer
ve from it even for
a moment. I did my best to follow his advice and in a comparatively short time I
realised within
myself the truth of his teaching. All I did was to remember his teaching, his fa
ce, his words
constantly. This brought an end to the mind; in the stillness of the mind I saw
myself as I am --
unbound.
Q: Was your realisation sudden or gradual.
M: Neither. One is what one is timelessly. It is the mind that realises as and w
hen it get cleared of
desires and fears.
Q: Even the desire for realisation?
M: The desire to put an end to all desires is a most peculiar desire, just like
the fear of being afraid
is a most peculiar fear. One stops you from grabbing and the other from running.
You may use the
same words, but the states are not the same. The man who seeks realisation is no
t addicted to
desires; he is a seeker who goes against desire, not with it. A general longing
for liberation is only
the beginning; to find the proper means and use them is the next step. The seeke
r has only one
goal in view: to find his own true being. Of all desires it is the most ambitiou
s, for nothing and
nobody can satisfy it; the seeker and the sought are one and the search alone ma
tters.
Q: The search will come to an end. The seeker will remain.
M: No, the seeker will dissolve, the search will remain. The search is the ultim
ate and timeless
reality.
Q: Search means lacking, wanting, incompleteness and imperfection.
M: No, it means refusal and rejection of the incomplete and the imperfect. The s
earch for reality is
itself the movement of reality. In a way all search is for the real bliss, or th
e bliss of the real. But
here we mean by search the search for oneself as the root of being conscious, as
the light beyond
the mind. This search will never end, while the restless craving for all else mu
st end, for real
progress to take place.
One has to understand that the search for reality, or God, or Guru and the searc
h for the self are
the same; when one is found, all are found. When 'I am' and 'God is' become in y
our mind
indistinguishable, then something will happen and you will know without a trace
of doubt that God is
because you are, you are because God is. The two are one.
Q: Since all is preordained, is our self-realisation also preordained? Or are we
free there at least?
M: Destiny refers only to name and shape. Since you are neither body nor mind, d
estiny has no
control over you. You are completely free. The cup is conditioned by its shape,
material, use and so
on. But the space within the cup is free. It happens to be in the cup only when
viewed in connection
with the cup. Otherwise it is just space. As long as there is a body, you appear
to be embodied.
Without the body you are not disembodied -- you Just are.
Even destiny is but an idea. Words can be put together in so many ways! Statemen
ts can differ, but
do they make any change in the actual? There are so many theories devised for ex
plaining things --
all are plausible, none is true. When you drive a car, you are subjected to the
laws of mechanics
and chemistry: step out of the car and you are under the laws of physiology and
biochemistry.
Q: What is meditation and what are its uses?
M: As long as you are a beginner certain formalised meditations, or prayers may
be good for you.
But for a seeker for reality there is only one meditation -- the rigorous refusa
l to harbour thoughts.
To be free from thoughts is itself meditation.
Q: How is it done?
M: You begin by letting thoughts flow and watching them. The very observation sl
ows down the
mind till it stops altogether. Once the mind is quiet, keep it quiet. Don't get
bored with peace, be in it,
go deeper into it.
Q: I heard of holding on to one thought in order to keep other thoughts away. Bu
t how to keep all
thoughts away? The very idea is also a thought.
M: Experiment anew, don't go by past experience. Watch your thoughts and watch y
ourself
watching the thoughts. The state of freedom from all thoughts will happen sudden
ly and by the bliss
of it you shall recognise it.
[picture]
Q: Are you not at all concerned about the state of the world? Look at the horror
s in East Pakistan
[1971, now Bangla Desh]. Do they not touch you at all?
M: I am reading newspapers, I know what is going on! But my reaction is not like
yours. You are
looking for a cure, while I am concerned with prevention. As long as there are c
auses, there must
also be results. As long as people are bent on dividing and separating, as long
as they are selfish
and aggressive, such things will happen. If you want peace and harmony in the wo
rld, you must
have peace and harmony in your hearts and minds. Such change cannot be imposed;
it must come
from within. Those who abhor war must get war out of their system. Without peace
ful people how
can you have peace in the world? As long as people are as they are, the world mu
st be as it is. I am
doing my part in trying to help people to know themselves as the only cause of t
heir own misery. In
that sense I am a useful man. But what I am in myself, what is my normal state c
annot be
expressed in terms of social consciousness and usefulness.
I may talk about it, use metaphors or parables, but I am acutely aware that it i
s just not so. Not that
it cannot be experienced. It is experiencing itself! But it cannot be described
in the terms of a mind
that must separate and oppose in order to know.
The world is like a sheet of paper on which something is typed. The reading and
the meaning will
vary with the reader, but the paper is the common factor, always present, rarely
perceived. When
the ribbon is removed, typing leaves no trace on the paper. So is my mind -- the
impressions keep
on coming, but no trace is left.
Q: Why do you sit here talking to people? What is your real motive?
M: No motive. You say I must have a motive. I am not sitting here, nor talking:
no need to search
for motives. Don't confuse me with the body. I have no work to do, no duties to
perform. That part of
me which you may call God will look after the world. This world of yours, that s
o much needs
looking after, lives and moves in your mind. Delve into it, you will find your a
nswers there and there
only. Where else do you expect them to come from? Outside your consciousness doe
s anything
exist?
Q: It may exist without my ever knowing it.
M: What kind of existence would it be? Can being be divorced from knowing? All b
eing, like all
knowing, relates to you. A thing is because you know it to be either in your exp
erience or in your
being. Your body and your mind exist as long as you believe so. Cease to think t
hat they are yours
and they will just dissolve. By all means let your body and mind function, but d
o not let them limit
you. If you notice imperfections, just keep on noticing: your very giving attent
ion to them will set
your heart and mind and body right.
Q: Can I cure myself of a serious illness by merely taking cognisance of it?
M: Take cognisance of the whole of it, not only of the outer symptoms. All illne
ss begins in the
mind. Take care of the mind first, by tracing and eliminating all wrong ideas an
d emotions. Then live
and work disregarding illness and think no more of it. With the removal of cause
s the effect is bound
to depart.
Man becomes what he believes himself to be. Abandon all ideas about yourself and
you will find
yourself to be the pure witness, beyond all that can happen to the body or the m
ind.
Q: If I become anything I think myself to be, and I start thinking that I am the
Supreme Reality, will
not my Supreme Reality remain a mere idea?
M: First reach that state and then ask the question.
49. Mind Causes Insecurity
Questioner: People come to you for advice. How do you know what to answer?
Maharaj: As I hear the question, so do I hear the answer.
Q: And how do you know that your answer is right?
M: Once I know the true source of the answers, I need not doubt them. From a pur
e source only
pure water will flow. I am not concerned with people's desires and fears. I am i
n tune with facts, not
with opinions. Man takes his name and shape to be himself, while I take nothing
to be myself. Were
I to think myself to be a body known by its name, I would not have been able to
answer your
questions. Were I to take you to be a mere body, there would be no benefit to yo
u from my
answers. No true teacher indulges in opinions. He sees things as they are and sh
ows them as they
are. If you take people to be what they think themselves to be, you will only hu
rt them, as they hurt
themselves so grievously all the time. But if you see them as they are in realit
y, it will do them
enormous good. If they ask you what to do, what practices to adopt, which way of
life to follow,
answer: 'Do nothing, just be. In being all happens naturally.'
Q: It seems to me that in your talks you use the words 'naturally' and 'accident
ally' indiscriminately.
I feel there is a deep difference in the meaning of the two words. The natural i
s orderly, subject to
law; one can trust nature; the accidental is chaotic, unexpected, unpredictable.
One could plead that
everything is natural, subject to nature's laws; to maintain that everything is
accidental, without any
cause, is surely an exaggeration.
M: Would you like it better if I use the word 'spontaneous' instead of 'accident
al'?
Q: You may use the word 'spontaneous' or 'natural' as opposed to 'accidental'. I
n the accidental
there is the element of disorder, of chaos. An accident is always a breach of ru
les, an exception, a
surprise.
M: Is not life itself a stream of surprises?
Q: There is harmony in nature. The accidental is a disturbance.
M: You speak as a person, limited in time and space, reduced to the contents of
a body and a
mind. What you like, you call 'natural' and what you dislike, you call 'accident
al'.
Q: I like the natural, and the law-abiding, the expected and I fear the law-brea
king, the disorderly,
the unexpected, the meaningless. The accidental is always monstrous. There may b
e so-called
'lucky accidents', but they only prove the rule that in an accident-prone univer
se life would be
impossible.
M: I feel there is a misunderstanding. By 'accidental' I mean something to which
no known law
applies. When I say everything is accidental, uncaused, I only mean that the cau
ses and the laws
according to which they operate are beyond our knowing, or even imagining. If yo
u call what you
take to be orderly, harmonious, predictable, to be natural, then what obeys high
er laws and is
moved by higher powers may be called spontaneous. Thus, we shall have two natura
l orders: the
personal and predictable and the impersonal, or super-personal, and unpredictabl
e. Call it lower
nature and higher nature and drop the word accidental. As you grow in knowledge
and insight, the
borderline between lower and higher nature keeps on receding, but the two remain
until they are
seen as one. For, in fact, everything is most wonderfully inexplicable!
Q: Science explains a lot.
M: Science deals with names and shapes, quantities and qualities, patterns and l
aws; it is all right
in its own place. But life is to be lived; there is no time for analysis. The re
sponse must be
instantaneous -- hence the importance of the spontaneous, the timeless. It is in
the unknown that
we live and move. the known is the past.
Q: I can take my stand on what I feel I am. I am an individual, a person among p
ersons. Some
people are integrated and harmonised, and some are not. Some live effortlessly,
respond
spontaneously to every situation correctly, doing full justice to the need of th
e moment, while others
fumble, err and generally make a nuisance of themselves. The harmonised people m
ay be called
natural, ruled by law, while the disintegrated are chaotic and subject to accide
nts.
M: The very idea of chaos presupposes the sense of the orderly, the organic, the
inter-related.
Chaos and cosmos: are they not two aspects of the same state?
Q: But you seem to say that all is chaos, accidental, unpredictable.
M: Yes, in the sense that not all the laws of being are known and not all events
are predictable.
The more you are able to understand, the more the universe becomes satisfactory,
emotionally and
mentally. Reality is good and beautiful; we create the chaos.
Q: If you mean to say that it is the free will of man that causes accidents, I w
ould agree. But we
have not yet discussed free will.
M: Your order is what gives you pleasure and disorder is what gives you pain.
Q: You may put it that way, but do not tell me that the two are one. Talk to me
in my own language
-- the language of an individual in search of happiness. I do not want to be mis
led by non-dualistic
talks.
M: What makes you believe that you are a separate individual?
Q: I behave as an individual. I function on my own. I consider myself primarily,
and others only in
relation to myself. In short, I am busy with myself.
M: Well, go on being busy with yourself. On what business have you come here?
Q: On my old business of making myself safe and happy. I confess I have not been
too
successful. I am neither safe nor happy. Therefore, you find me here. This place
is new to me, but
my reason for coming here is old: the search for safe happiness, happy safety. S
o far I did not find
it. Can you help me?
M: What was never lost can never be found. Your very search for safety and joy k
eeps you away
from them. Stop searching, cease losing. The disease is simple and the remedy eq
ually simple. It is
your mind only that makes you insecure and unhappy. Anticipation makes you insec
ure, memory --
unhappy. Stop misusing your mind and all will be well with you. You need not set
it right -- it will set
itself right, as soon as you give up all concern with the past and the future an
d live entirely in the
now.
Q: But the now has no dimension. I shall become a nobody, a nothing !
M: Exactly. As nothing and nobody you are safe and happy. You can have the exper
ience for the
asking. Just try.
But let us go back to what is accidental and what is spontaneous, or natural. Yo
u said nature is
orderly while accident is a sign of chaos. I denied the difference and said that
we call an event
accidental when its causes are untraceable. There is no place for chaos in natur
e. Only in the mind
of man there is chaos. The mind does not grasp the whole -- its focus is very na
rrow. It sees
fragments only and fails to perceive the picture. Just as a man who hears sounds
, but does not
understand the language, may accuse the speaker of meaningless jabbering, and be
altogether
wrong. What to one is a chaotic stream of sounds is a beautiful poem to another.
King Janaka once dreamt that he was a beggar. On waking up he asked his Guru --
Vasishta: Am I
a king dreaming of being a beggar, or a beggar dreaming of being a king? The Gur
u answered: You
are neither, you are both. You are, and yet you are not what you think yourself
to be. You are
because you behave accordingly; you are not because it does not last. Can you be
a king or a
beggar for ever? All must change. You are what does not change. What are you? Ja
naka said: Yes,
I am neither king nor beggar, I am the dispassionate witness. The Guru said. Thi
s is your last
illusion that you are a jnani, that you are different from, and superior to, the
common man. Again
you identify yourself with your mind, in this case a well-behaved and in every w
ay an exemplary
mind. As long as you see the least difference, you are a stranger to reality. Yo
u are on the level of
the mind. When the 'I am myself' goes, the 'I am all' comes. When the 'I am all'
goes, 'I am' comes.
When even 'I am' goes, reality alone is and in it every 'I am' is preserved and
glorified. Diversity
without separateness is the Ultimate that the mind can touch. Beyond that all ac
tivity ceases,
because in it all goals are reached and all purposes fulfilled.
Q: Once the Supreme State is reached, can it be shared with others?
M: The Supreme State is universal, here and now; everybody already shares in it.
It is the state of
being -- knowing and liking. Who does not like to be, or does not know his own e
xistence? But we
take no advantage of this joy of being conscious, we do not go into it and purif
y it of all that is
foreign to it. This work of mental self-purification, the cleansing of the psych
e, is essential. Just as a
speck in the eye, by causing inflammation, may wipe out the world, so the mistak
en idea: 'I am the
body-mind' causes the self-concern, which obscures the universe. It is useless t
o fight the sense of
being a limited and separate person unless the roots of it are laid bare. Selfis
hness is rooted in the
mistaken ideas of oneself. Clarification of the mind is Yoga.
50. Self-awareness is the Witness
Questioner: You told me that I can be considered under three aspects: the person
al (vyakti), the
super-personal (vyakta) and the impersonal (avyakta). The Avyakta is the univers
al and real pure 'I';
the Vyakta is its reflection in consciousness as I am'; the Vyakti is the totalit
y of physical and vital
processes. Within the narrow confines of the present moment, the super-personal
is aware of the
person, both in space and time; not only one person, but the long series of pers
ons strung together
on the thread of karma. It is essentially the witness as well as the residue of
the accumulated
experiences, the seat of memory, the connecting link (sutratma). It is man's cha
racter which life
builds and shapes from birth to birth. The universal is beyond all name and shap
e, beyond
consciousness and character, pure unselfconscious
being. Did I put down your views rightly?
Maharaj: On the level of the mind -- yes. Beyond the mental level not a word app
lies.
Q: I can understand that the person is a mental construct, a collective noun for
a set of memories
and habits. But, he to whom the person happens, the witnessing centre, is it men
tal too?
M: The personal needs a base, a body to identify oneself with, just as a colour
needs a surface to
appear on. The seeing of the colour is independent of the colour -- it is the sa
me whatever the
colour. One needs an eye to see a colour. The colours are many, the eye is singl
e. The personal is
like the light in the colour and also in the eye, yet simple, single, indivisibl
e and unperceivable,
except in its manifestations. Not unknowable, but unperceivable, un-objectival,
inseparable. Neither
material nor mental, neither objective nor subjective, it is the root of matter
and the source of
consciousness. Beyond mere living and dying, it is the all-inclusive, all-exclus
ive Life, in which birth
is death and death is birth.
Q: The Absolute or Life you talk about, is it real, or a mere theory to cover up
our ignorance?
M: Both. To the mind, a theory; in itself -- a reality. It is reality in its spo
ntaneous and total rejection
of the false. Just as light destroys darkness by its very presence, so does the
absolute destroy
imagination. To see that all knowledge is a form of ignorance is itself a moveme
nt of reality. The
witness is not a person. The person comes into being when there is a basis for i
t, an organism, a
body. In it the absolute is reflected as awareness. Pure awareness becomes self-
awareness. When
there is a self, self-awareness is the witness. When there is no self to witness
, there is no
witnessing either. It is all very simple; it is the presence of the person that
complicates. See that
there is no such thing as a permanently separate person and all becomes clear. A
wareness -- mind
-- matter -- they are one reality in its two aspects as immovable and movable, a
nd the three
attributes of inertia, energy and harmony.
Q: What comes first: consciousness or awareness?
M: Awareness becomes consciousness when it has an object. The object changes all
the time. In
consciousness there is movement; awareness by itself is motionless and timeless,
here and now.
Q: There is suffering and bloodshed in East Pakistan at the present moment. How
do you look at
it? How does it appear to you, how do you react to it?
M: In pure consciousness nothing ever happens.
Q: Please come down from these metaphysical heights! Of what use is it to a suff
ering man to be
told that nobody is aware of his suffering but himself? To relegate everything t
o illusion is insult
added to injury. The Bengali of East Pakistan is a fact and his suffering is a f
act. Please, do not
analyse them out of existence! You are reading newspapers, you hear people talki
ng about it. You
cannot plead ignorance. Now, what is your attitude to what is happening?
M: No attitude. Nothing is happening.
Q: Any day there may be a riot right in front of you, perhaps people killing eac
h other. Surely you
cannot say: nothing is happening and remain aloof.
M: I never talked of remaining aloof. You could as well see me jumping into the
fray to save
somebody and getting killed. Yet to me nothing happened.
Imagine a big building collapsing. Some rooms are in ruins, some are intact. Bu
t can you speak of
the space as ruined or intact? It is only the structure that suffered and the pe
ople who happened to
live in it. Nothing happened to space itself. Similarly, nothing happens to life
when forms break
down and names are wiped out. The goldsmith melts down old ornaments to make new
. Sometimes
a good piece goes with the bad. He takes it in his stride, for he knows that no
gold is lost.
Q: It is not death that I rebel against. It is the manner of dying.
M: Death is natural, the manner of dying is man-made. Separateness causes fear a
nd aggression,
which again cause violence. Do away with man-made separations and all this horro
r of people
killing each other will surely end. But in reality there is no killing and no dy
ing. The real does not die,
the unreal never lived. Set your mind right and all will be right. When you know
that the world is one,
that humanity is one, you will act accordingly. But first of all you must attend
to the way you feel,
think and live. Unless there is order in yourself, there can be no order in the
world.
In reality nothing happens. Onto the screen of the mind destiny forever projects
its pictures,
memories of former projections and thus illusion constantly renews itself. The p
ictures come and go
-- light intercepted by ignorance. See the light and disregard the picture.
Q: What a callous way of looking at things! People are killing and getting kille
d and here you talk of
pictures.
M: By all means go and get killed yourself -- if that is what you think you shou
ld do. Or even go and
kill, if you take it to be your duty. But that is not the way to end the evil. E
vil is the stench of a mind
that is diseased. Heal your mind and it will cease to project distorted, ugly pi
ctures.
Q: What you say I understand, but emotionally I cannot accept it. This merely id
ealistic view of life
repels me deeply. I just cannot think myself to be permanently in a state of dre
am.
M: How can anybody be permanently in a state caused by an impermanent body? The
misunderstanding is based on your idea that you are the body. Examine the idea,
see its inherent
contradictions, realise that your present existence is like a shower of sparks,
each spark lasting a
second and the shower itself -- a minute or two. Surely a thing of which the beg
inning is the end,
can have no middle. Respect your terms. Reality cannot be momentary. It is timel
ess, but
timelessness is not duration.
Q: I admit that the world in which I live is not the real world. But there is a
real world, of which I see
a distorted picture. The distortion may be due to some blemish in my body or min
d. But when you
say there is no real world, only a dream world in my mind, I just cannot take it
. I wish I could believe
that all horrors of existence are due to my having a body. Suicide would be the
way out.
M: As long as you pay attention to ideas, your own or of others, you will be in
trouble. But if you
disregard all teachings, all books, anything out into words and dive deeply with
in yourself and find
yourself, this alone will solve all your problems and leave you in full mastery
of every situation,
because you will not be dominated by your ideas about the situation. Take an exa
mple. You are in
the company of an attractive woman. You get ideas about her and this creates a s
exual situation. A
problem is created and you start looking for books on continence, or enjoyment.
Were you a baby,
both of you could be naked and together without any problem arising. Just stop t
hinking you are the
bodies and the problems of love and sex will lose their meaning. With all sense
of limitation gone,
fear, pain and the search for pleasure -- all cease. Only awareness remains.
51. Be Indifferent to Pain and Pleasure
Questioner: I am a Frenchman by birth and domicile and since about ten years I h
ave been
practicing Yoga.
Maharaj: After ten years of work are you anywhere nearer your goal?
Q: A little nearer, maybe. It is hard work, you know.
M: The Self is near and the way to it is easy. All you need doing is doing nothi
ng.
Q: Yet I found my sadhana very difficult.
M: Your sadhana is to be. The doing happens. Just be watchful. Where is the diff
iculty in
remembering that you are? Your are all the time.
Q: The sense of being is there all the time -- no doubt. But the field of attent
ion is often overrun by
all sorts of mental events -- emotions, images, ideas. The pure sense of being i
s usually crowded
out.
M: What is your procedure for clearing the mind of the unnecessary? What are you
r means, your
tools for the purification of the mind?
Q: Basically, man is afraid. He is afraid of himself most. I feel I am like a ma
n who is carrying a
bomb that is going to explode. He cannot defuse it, he cannot throw it away. He
is terribly frightened
and is searching frantically for a solution, which he cannot find. To me liberat
ion is getting rid of this
bomb. I do not know much about the bomb. I only know that it comes from early ch
ildhood. I feel
like the frightened child protesting passionately against not being loved. The c
hild is craving for love
and because he does not get it, he is afraid and angry. Sometimes I feel like ki
lling somebody or
myself. This desire is so strong that I am constantly afraid. And I do not know
how to get free from
fear.
You see there is a difference between a Hindu mind and a European mind. The Hind
u mind is
comparatively simple. The European is a much more complex being. The Hindu is ba
sically sattvic.
He does not understand the European s restlessness, hid tireless pursuit of what h
e thinks needs
be done; his greater general knowledge.
M: His reasoning capacity is so great, that he will reason himself out of all re
ason! His self-
assertiveness is due to his reliance on logic.
Q: But thinking, reasoning is the mind s normal state. The mind just cannot stop w
orking.
M: It may be the habitual state, but it need not be the normal state. A normal s
tate cannot be
painful, while a habit often leads to chronic pain.
Q: If it is not the natural, or normal state of mind, then how to stop it? There
must be a way to
quieten the mind. How often I tell myself: enough, please stop, enough of this e
ndless chatter of
sentences repeated round and round! But my mind would not stop. I feel that one
can stop it for a
while, but not for long. Even the so-called spiritual people use tricks to keep th
eir mind quiet. They
repeat formulas, they sing, pray, breathe forcibly or gently, shake, rotate, con
centrate, meditate,
chase trances, cultivate virtues -- working all the time, in order to cease work
ing, cease chasing,
cease moving. Were it not so tragic, it would be ridiculous.
M: The mind exists in two states: as water and as honey. The water vibrates at t
he least
disturbance, while the honey, however disturbed, returns quickly to immobility.
Q: By its very nature the mind is restless. It can perhaps be made quiet, but it
is not quiet by itself.
M: You may have a chronic fever and shiver all the time. It is desires and fears
that make the mind
restless. Free from all negative emotions it is quiet.
Q: You cannot protect the child from negative emotions. As soon as it is born it
learns pain and
fear. Hunger is a cruel master and teaches dependence and hate. The child loves
the mother
because she feeds it and hates her because she is late with food. Our unconsciou
s mind is full of
conflicts, which overflow into the conscious. We live on a volcano; we are alway
s in danger. I agree
that the company of people whose mind is peaceful has a very soothing affect, bu
t as soon as I am
away from them, the old trouble starts. This is why I come periodically to India
to seek the company
of my Guru.
M: You think you are coming and going, passing through various states and moods.
I see things as
they are, momentary events, presenting themselves to me in rapid succession, der
iving their being
from me, yet definitely neither me nor mine. Among phenomena I am not one, nor s
ubject to any. I
am independent so simply and totally, that your mind, accustomed to opposition a
nd denial, cannot
grasp it. I mean literally what I say; I do not need oppose, or deny, because it
is clear to me that I
cannot be the opposite or denial of anything. I am just beyond, in a different d
imension altogether.
Do not look for me in identification with, or opposition to something: I am wher
e desire, and fear are
not. Now, what is your experience? Do you also feel that you stand totally aloof
from all transient
things?
Q: Yes, I do -- occasionally. But at once a sense of danger sets in, I feel isol
ated, outside all
relationship with others. You see, here lies the difference in our mentalities.
With the Hindu, the
emotion follows the thought. Give a Hindu an idea and his emotions are roused. W
ith the Westerner
it is the opposite: give him an emotion and he will produce an idea. Your ideas
are very attractive --
intellectually, but emotionally I do not respond.
M: Set your intellect aside. Don't use it in these matters.
Q: Of what use is an advice which I cannot carry out? These are all ideas and yo
u want me to
respond feelingly to ideas, for without feelings there can be no action.
M: Why do you talk of action? Are you acting ever? Some unknown power acts and y
ou imagine
that you are acting. You are merely watching what happens, without being able to
influence it in any
way.
Q: Why is there such a tremendous resistance in me against accepting that I just
can do nothing?
M: But what can you do? You are like a patient under anaesthetics on whom a surg
eon performs
an operation. When you wake up you find the operation over; can you say you have
done
something?
Q: But it is me who has chosen to submit to an operation.
M: Certainly not. It is your illness on one side and the pressure of your physic
ian and family on the
other that have made you decide. You have no choice, only the illusion of it.
Q: Yet I feel I am not as helpless as you make me appear. I feel I can do everyt
hing I can think of,
only I do not know how. It is not the power I lack, but the knowledge.
M: Not knowing the means is admittedly as bad as not having the power! But let u
s drop the
subject for the moment; after all it is not important why we feel helpless, as l
ong as we see clearly
that for the time being we are helpless.
I am now 74 years old. And yet I feel that I am an infant. I feel clearly that i
n spite of all the changes
I am a child. My Guru told me: that child, which is you even now, is your real s
elf (swarupa). Go
back to that state of pure being, where the 'I am' is still in its purity before
it got contaminated with
'this I am' or 'that I am'. Your burden is of false self-identifications -- aban
don them all. My Guru told
me -- 'Trust me. I tell you; you are divine. Take it as the absolute truth. Your
joy is divine, your
suffering is divine too. All comes from God. Remember it always. You are God, yo
ur will alone is
done'. I did believe him and soon realised how wonderfully true and accurate wer
e his words. I did
not condition my mind by thinking: 'I am God, I am wonderful, I am beyond'. I si
mply followed his
instruction which was to focus the mind on pure being 'I am', and stay in it. I
used to sit for hours
together, with, nothing but the 'I am' in my mind and soon peace and joy and a d
eep all-embracing
love became my normal state. In it all disappeared -- myself, my Guru, the life
I lived, the world
around me. Only peace remained and unfathomable silence.
Q: It all looks very simple and easy, but it is just not so. Sometimes the wonde
rful state of joyful
peace dawns on me and I look and wonder: how easily it comes and how intimate it
seems, how
totally my own. Where was the need to strive so hard for a state so near at hand
? This time, surely,
it has come to stay. Yet how soon it all dissolves and leaves me wondering -- wa
s it a taste of reality
or another aberration. If it was reality, why did it go? Maybe some unique exper
ience is needed to
fix me for good in the new state and until the crucial experience comes, this ga
me of hide and seek
must continue.
M: Your expectation of something unique and dramatic, of some wonderful explosio
n, is merely
hindering and delaying your self-realisation. You are not to expect an explosion
, for the explosion
has already happened -- at the moment when you were born, when you realised your
self as being-
knowingfeeling.
There is only one mistake you are making: you take the inner for the outer and t
he
outer for the inner. What is in you, you take to be outside you and what is outs
ide, you take to be in
you. The mind and feelings are external, but you take them to be intimate. You b
elieve the world to
be objective, while it is entirely a projection of your psyche. That is the basi
c confusion and no new
explosion will set it right. You have to think yourself out of it. There is no o
ther way.
Q: How am I to think myself out when my thoughts come and go as they like. Their
endless chatter
distracts and exhausts me.
M: Watch your thoughts as you watch the street traffic. People come and go; you
register without
response. It may not be easy in the beginning, but with some practice you will f
ind that your mind
can function on many levels at the same time and you can be aware of them all. I
t is only when you
have a vested interest in any particular level, that your attention gets caught
in it and you black out
on other levels. Even then the work on the blacked out levels goes on, outside t
he field of
consciousness. Do not struggle with your memories and thoughts; try only to incl
ude in your field of
attention the other, more important questions, like 'Who am l?' 'How did I happe
n to be born?'
'Whence this universe around me?'. 'What is real and what is momentary?' No memo
ry will persist,
if you lose interest in it, it is the emotional link that perpetuates the bondag
e. You are always
seeking pleasure, avoiding pain, always after happiness and peace. Don't you see
that it is your
very search for happiness that makes you feel miserable? Try the other way: indi
fferent to pain and
pleasure, neither asking, nor refusing, give all your attention to the level on
which 'I am' is timelessly
present. Soon you will realise that peace and happiness are in your very nature
and it is only
seeking them through some particular channels, that disturbs. Avoid the disturba
nce, that is all. To
seek there is no need; you would not seek what you already have. You yourself ar
e God, the
Supreme Reality. To begin with, trust me, trust the Teacher. It enables you to m
ake the first step --
and then your trust is justified by your own experience. In every walk of life i
nitial trust is essential;
without it little can be done. Every undertaking is an act of faith. Even your d
aily bread you eat on
trust! By remembering what I told you you will achieve everything. I am telling
you again: You are
the all-pervading, all transcending reality. Behave accordingly: think, feel and
act in harmony with
the whole and the actual experience of what I say will dawn upon you in no time.
No effort is
needed. Have faith and act on it. Please see that I want nothing from you. It is
in your own interest
that l speak, because above all you love yourself, you want yourself secure and
happy. Don't be
ashamed of it, don't deny it. It is natural and good to love oneself. Only you s
hould know what
exactly do you love. It is not the body that you love, it is Life --perceiving,
feeling, thinking, doing,
loving, striving, creating. It is that Life you love, which is you, which is all
. realise it in its totality,
beyond all divisions and limitations, and all your desires will merge in it, for
the greater contains the
smaller. Therefore find yourself, for in finding that you find all.
Everybody is glad to be. But few know the fullness of it. You come to know by dw
elling in your mind
on 'I am', 'I know', 'I love' -- with the will of reaching the deepest meaning o
f these words.
Q: Can I think 'I am God'?
M: Don't identify yourself with an idea. If you mean by God the Unknown, then yo
u merely say: 'I do
not know what I am'. If you know God as you know your self, you need not say it.
Best is the simple
feeling 'I am'. Dwell on it patiently. Here patience is wisdom; don't think of f
ailure. There can be no
failure in this undertaking.
Q: My thoughts will not let me.
M: Pay no attention. Don't fight them. Just do nothing about them, let them be,
whatever they are.
Your very fighting them gives them life. Just disregard. Look through. Remember
to remember:
'whatever happens -- happens because I am'. All reminds you that you are. Take f
ull advantage of
the fact that to experience you must be. You need not stop thinking. Just cease
being interested. It
is disinterestedness that liberates. Don't hold on, that is all. The world is ma
de of rings. The hooks
are all yours. Make straight your hooks and nothing can hold you. Give up your a
ddictions. There is
nothing else to give up. Stop your routine of acquisitiveness, your habit of loo
king for results and the
freedom of the universe is yours. Be effortless.
Q: Life is effort. There are so many things to do.
M: What needs doing, do it. Don't resist. Your balance must be dynamic, based on
doing just the
right thing, from moment to moment. Don't be a child unwilling to grow up. Stere
otyped gestures
and postures will not help you. Rely entirely on your clarity of thought, purity
of motive and integrity
of action. You cannot possibly go wrong . Go beyond and leave all behind.
Q: But can anything be left for good?
M: You want something like a round-the-clock ecstasy. Ecstasies come and go, nec
essarily, for the
human brain cannot stand the tension for a long time. A prolonged ecstasy will b
urn out your brain,
unless it is extremely pure and subtle. In nature nothing is at stand-still, eve
rything pulsates,
appears and disappears. Heart, breath, digestion, sleep and waking -- birth and
death everything
comes and goes in waves. Rhythm, periodicity, harmonious alternation of extremes
is the rule. No
use rebelling against the very pattern of life. If you seek the Immutable, go be
yond experience.
When I say: remember 'I am' all the time, I mean: 'come back to it repeatedly'.
No particular thought
can be mind's natural state, only silence. Not the idea of silence, but silence
itself. When the mind is
in its natural state, it reverts to silence spontaneously after every experience
or, rather, every
experience happens against the background of silence.
Now, what you have learnt here becomes the seed. You may forget it -- apparently
. But it will live
and in due season sprout and grow and bring forth flowers and fruits. All will h
appen by itself. You
need not do anything, only don't prevent it.
52. Being Happy, Making Happy is the Rhythm of Life
Questioner: I came from Europe a few months ago on one of my periodical visits t
o my Guru near
Calcutta. Now I am on my way back home. I was invited by a friend to meet you an
d I am glad I
came.
Maharaj: What did you learn from your Guru and what practice did you follow?
Q: He is a venerable old man of about eighty. Philosophically he is a Vedantin a
nd the practice he
teaches has much to do with rousing the unconscious energies of the mind and bri
nging the hidden
obstacles and blockages into the conscious. My personal sadhana was related to m
y peculiar
problem of early infancy and childhood. My mother could not give me the feeling
of being secure
and loved, so important to the child's normal development. She was a woman not f
it to be a mother;
ridden with anxieties and neuroses, unsure of herself, she felt me to be a respo
nsibility and a
burden beyond her capacity to bear. She never wanted me to be born. She did not
want me to grow
and to develop, she wanted me back in her womb, unborn, nonexistent.
Any movement of life in
me she resisted, any attempt to go beyond the narrow circle of her habitual exis
tence she fought
fiercely. As a child I was both sensitive and affectionate. I craved for love ab
ove everything else and
love, the simple, instinctive love of a mother for her child was denied me. The
child's search for its
mother became the leading motive of my life and I never grew out of it. A happy
child, a happy
childhood became an obsession with me. Pregnancy, birth, infancy interested me p
assionately. I
became an obstetrician of some renown and contributed to the development of the
method of
painless childbirth. A happy child of a happy mother -- that was my ideal all my
life. But my mother
was always there -- unhappy herself, unwilling and incapable to see me happy. It
manifested itself
in strange ways. Whenever I was unwell, she felt better; when I was in good shap
e, she was down
again, cursing herself and me too. As if she never forgave me my crime of having
been born, she
made me feel guilty of being alive. 'You live because you hate me. If you love m
e -- die', was her
constant, though silent message. And so I spent my life, being offered death ins
tead of love.
Imprisoned, as I was, in my mother, the perennial infant, I could not develop a
meaningful relation
with a woman; the image of the mother would stand between, unforgiving, unforgiv
en. I sought
solace in my work and found much; but I could not move from the pit of infancy.
Finally, I turned to
spiritual search and I am on this line steadily for many years. But, in a way it
is the same old search
for mother's love, call it God or Atma or Supreme Reality. Basically I want to l
ove and be loved;
unfortunately the so-called religious people are against life and all for the mi
nd. When faced with
life's needs and urges, they begin by classifying, abstracting and conceptualisi
ng and then make the
classification more important than life itself. They ask to concentrate on and i
mpersonate a concept.
Instead of the spontaneous integration through love they recommend a deliberate
and laborious
concentration on a formula. Whether it is God or Atma, the me or the other, it c
omes to the same!
Something to think about, not somebody to love. It is not theories and systems t
hat I need; there are
many equally attractive or plausible. I need a stirring of the heart, a renewal
of life, and not a new
way of thinking. There are no new ways of thinking, but feelings can be ever fre
sh. When I love
somebody, I meditate on him spontaneously and powerfully, with warmth and vigour
, which my
mind cannot command.
Words are good for shaping feelings; words without feeling are like clothes with
no body inside --
cold and limp. This mother of mine -- she drained me of all feelings -- my sourc
es have run dry. Can
I find here the richness and abundance of emotions, which I needed in such ample
 measure as a
child?
M: Where is your childhood now? And what is your future?
Q: I was born, I have grown, I shall die.
M: You mean your body, of course. And your mind. I am not talking of your physio
logy and
psychology. They are a part of nature and are governed by nature's laws. I am ta
lking of your
search for love. Had it a beginning? Will it have an end?
Q: I really cannot say. It is there -- from the earliest to the last moment of m
y life. This yearning for
love -- how constant and how hopeless!
M: In your search for love what exactly are you searching for?
Q: Simply this: to love and to be loved.
M: You mean a woman?
Q: Not necessarily. A friend, a teacher, a guide -- as long as the feeling is br
ight and clear. Of
course, a woman is the usual answer. But it need not be the only one.
M: Of the two what would you prefer, to love or to be loved?
Q: I would rather have both! But I can see that to love is greater, nobler, deep
er. To be loved is
sweet, but it does not make one grow.
M: Can you love on your own, or must you be made to love?
Q: One must meet somebody lovable, of course. My mother was not only not loving,
she was also
not lovable.
M: What makes a person lovable? Is it not the being loved? First you love and th
en you look for
reasons.
Q: It can be the other way round. You love what makes you happy.
M: But what makes you happy?
Q: There is no rule about it. The entire subject is highly individual and unpred
ictable.
M: Right. Whichever way you put it, unless you love there is no happiness. But,
does love make
you always happy? Is not the association of love with happiness a rather early,
infantile stage?
When the beloved suffers, don't you suffer too? And do you cease to love, becaus
e you suffer?
Must love and happiness come and go together? Is love merely the expectation of
pleasure?
Q: Of course not. There can be much suffering in love.
M: Then what is love? Is it not a state of being rather than a state of mind? Mu
st you know that you
love in order to love? Did you. not love your mother unknowingly? Your craving f
or her love, for an
opportunity to love her, is it not the movement of love? Is not love as much a p
art of you, as
consciousness of being? You sought the love of your mother, because you loved he
r.
Q: But she would not let me!
M: She could not stop you.
Q: Then, why was I unhappy all my life?
M: Because you did not go down to the very roots of your being. It is your compl
ete ignorance of
yourself, that covered up your love and happiness and made you seek for what you
had never lost.
Love is will, the will to share your happiness with all. Being happy -- making h
appy -- this is the
rhythm of love.
53. Desires Fulfilled, Breed More Desires
Questioner: I must confess I came today in a rebellious mood. I got a raw deal a
t the airlines office.
When faced with such situations everything seems doubtful, everything seems usel
ess.
Maharaj: This is a very useful mood. Doubting all, refusing all, unwilling to le
arn through another. It
is the fruit of your long sadhana. After all one does not study for ever.
Q: Enough of it. It took me nowhere.
M: Don't say 'nowhere'. It took you where you are -- now.
Q: It is again the child and its tantrums. I have not moved an inch from where I
was.
M: You began as a child and you will end as a child. Whatever you have acquired
in the meantime
you must lose and start at the beginning.
Q: But the child kicks. When it is unhappy or denied anything it kicks.
M: Let it kick. Just look at the kicking. And if you are too afraid of the socie
ty to kick convincingly
look at that too. I know it is a painful business. But there is no remedy -- exc
ept one -- the search for
remedies must cease.
If you are angry or in pain, separate yourself from anger and pain and watch the
m. Externalisation
is the first step to liberation. Step away and look. The physical events will go
on happening, but by
themselves they have no importance. It is the mind alone that matters. Whatever
happens, you
cannot kick and scream in an airline office or in a Bank. Society does not allow
it. If you do not like
their ways, or are not prepared to endure them, don't fly or carry money. Walk,
and if you cannot
walk, don't travel. If you deal with society you must accept its ways, for its w
ays are your ways. Your
needs and demands have created them. Your desires are so complex and contradicto
ry -- no
wonder the society you create is also complex and contradictory.
Q: I do see and admit that the outer chaos is merely a reflection of my own inne
r disharmony. But
what is the remedy?
M: Don't seek remedies.
Q: Sometimes one is in a 'state of grace' and life is happy and harmonious. But
such a state does
not last! The mood changes and all goes wrong.
M: If you could only keep quiet, clear of memories and expectations, you would b
e able to discern
the beautiful pattern of events. It is your restlessness that causes chaos.
Q: For full three hours that I spent in the airline office I was practising pati
ence and forbearance. It
did not speed up matters.
M: At least it did not slow them down, as your kicking would have surely done! Y
ou want immediate
results! We do not dispense magic here. Everybody does the same mistake: refusin
g the means,
but wanting the ends. You want peace and harmony in the world, but refuse to hav
e them in
yourself. Follow my advice implicitly and you will not be disappointed. I cannot
solve your problem
by mere words. You have to act on what I told you and persevere. It is not the r
ight advice that
liberates, but the action based on it. Just like a doctor, after giving the pati
ent an injection, tells him:
'Now, keep quiet. Do nothing more, just keep quiet,' I am telling you: you have
got your 'injection',
now keep quiet, just keep quiet. You have nothing else to do. My Guru did the sa
me. He would tell
me something and then said: 'Now keep quiet. Don't go on ruminating all the time
. Stop. Be silent'.
Q: I can keep quiet for an hour in the morning. But the day is long and many thi
ngs happen that
throw me out of balance. It is easy to say 'be silent', but to be silent when al
l is screaming in me and
round me -- please tell me how it is done.
M: All that needs doing can be done in peace and silence. There is no need to ge
t upset.
Q: It is all theory which does not fit the facts. I am returning to Europe with
nothing to do there. My
life is completely empty.
M: If you just try to keep quiet, all will come -- the work, the strength for wo
rk, the right motive. Must
you know everything beforehand? Don't be anxious about your future -- be quiet n
ow and all will fall
in place. The unexpected is bound to happen, while the anticipated may never com
e. Don't tell me
you cannot control your nature. You need not control it. Throw it overboard. Hav
e no nature to fight,
or to submit to. No experience will hurt you, provided you don't make it into a
habit. Of the entire
universe you are the subtle cause. All is because you are. Grasp this point firm
ly and deeply and
dwell on it repeatedly. To realise this as absolutely true, is liberation.
Q: If I am the seed of my universe, then a rotten seed I am! By the fruit the se
ed is known.
M: What is wrong with your world that you swear at it?
Q: It is full of pain.
M: Nature is neither pleasant nor painful. It is all intelligence and beauty. Pa
in and pleasure are in
the mind. Change your scale of values and all will change. Pleasure and pain are
mere
disturbances of the senses; treat them equally and there will be only bliss. And
the world is, what
you make it; by all means make it happy. Only contentment can make you happy --
desires fulfilled
breed more desires. Keeping away from all desires and contentment in what comes
by itself is a
very fruitful state -- a precondition to the state of fullness. Don't distrust i
ts apparent sterility and
emptiness. Believe me, it is the satisfaction of desires that breeds misery. Fre
edom from desires is
bliss.
Q: There are things we need.
M: What you need will come to you, if you do not ask for what you do not need. Y
et only few
people reach this state of complete dispassion and detachment. It is a very high
state, the very
threshold of liberation.
Q: I have been barren for the last two years, desolate and empty and often was I
praying for death
to come.
M: Well, with your coming here events have started rolling. Let things happen as
they happen --
they will sort themselves out nicely in the end. You need not strain towards the
future -- the future
will come to you on its own. For some time longer you will remain sleep-walking,
as you do now,
bereft of meaning and assurance; but this period will end and you will find your
work both fruitful
and easy. There are always moments when one feels empty and estranged. Such mome
nts are
most desirable for it means the soul had cast its moorings and is sailing for di
stant places. This is
detachment -- when the old is over and the new has not yet come. If you are afra
id, the state may
be distressing; but there is really nothing to be afraid of. Remember the instru
ction: whatever you
come across -- go beyond.
Q: The Buddhas rule: to remember what needs to be remembered. But I find it so d
ifficult to
remember the right thing at the right moment. With me forgetting seems to be the
rule!
M: It is not easy to remember when every situation brings up a storm of desires
and fears. Craving
born of memory is also the destroyer of memory.
Q: How am I to fight desire? There is nothing stronger.
M: The waters of life are thundering over the rocks of objects -- desirable or h
ateful. Remove the
rocks by insight and detachment and the same waters will flow deep and silent an
d swift, in greater
volume and with greater power. Don't be theoretical about it, give time to thoug
ht and consideration;
if you desire to be free, neglect not the nearest step to freedom. It is like cl
imbing a mountain: not a
step can be missed. One step less -- and the summit is not reached.
54. Body and Mind are Symptoms of Ignorance
Questioner: We were discussing one day the person -- the witness -- the absolute
(vyakti-vyakta-
avyakta). As far as I remember, you said that the absolute alone is real and the
witness is absolute
only at a given point of space and time. The person is the organism, gross and s
ubtle, illumined by
the presence of the witness. I do not seem to grasp the matter clearly; could we
discuss it again?
You also use the terms mahadakash, chidakash and paramakash. How are they relate
d to person,
witness, and the absolute?
Maharaj: Mahadakash is nature, the ocean of existences, the physical space with
all that can be
contacted through the senses. Chidakash is the expanse of awareness, the mental
space of time,
perception and cognition. Paramakash is the timeless and spaceless reality, mind
less,
undifferentiated, the infinite potentiality, the source and origin, the substanc
e and the essence, both
matter and consciousness -- yet beyond both. It cannot be perceived, but can be
experienced as
ever witnessing the witness, perceiving the perceiver, the origin and the end of
all manifestation, the
root of time and space, the prime cause in every chain of causation.
Q: What is the difference between vyakta and avyakta?
M: There is no difference. It is like light and daylight. The universe is full o
f light which you do not
see; but the same light you see as daylight. And what the daylight reveals is th
e vyakti, The person
is always the object, the witness is the subject and their relation of mutual de
pendence is the
reflection of their absolute identity. You imagine that they are distinct and se
parate states. They are
not. They are the same consciousness at rest and in movement, each state conscio
us of the other.
In chit man knows God and God knows man. In chit the man shapes the world and th
e world
shapes man. Chit is the link, the bridge between extremes, the balancing and uni
ting factor in every
experience. The totality of the perceived is what you call matter. The totality
of all perceivers is what
you call the universal mind. The identity of the two, manifesting itself as perc
eptibility and
perceiving, harmony and intelligence, loveliness and loving, reasserts itself et
ernally.
Q: The three gunas, sattva--rajas--tamas, are they only in matter, or also in th
e mind?
M: In both, of course, because the two are not separate. It is only the absolute
that is beyond
gunas. In fact, these are but points of view, ways of looking. They exist only i
n the mind. Beyond the
mind all distinctions cease.
Q: Is the universe a product of the senses?
M: Just as you recreate your world on waking up, so is the universe unrolled. Th
e mind with its five
organs of perception, five organs of action, and five vehicles of consciousness
appears as memory,
thought, reason and selfhood.
Q: The sciences have made much progress. We know the body and the mind much bett
er than
our ancestors. Your traditional way, describing and analysing mind and matter, i
s no longer valid.
M: But where are your scientists with their sciences? Are they not again images
in your own mind?
Q: Here lies the basic difference! To me they are not my own projections. They w
ere before I was
born and shall be there when I am dead.
M: Of course. Once you accept time and space as real, you will consider yourself
minute and short-
lived. But are they real? Do they depend on you, or you on them? As body, you ar
e in space. As
mind, you are in time. But are you mere body with a mind in it? Have you ever in
vestigated?
Q: I had neither the motive nor the method.
M: I am suggesting both. But the actual work of insight and detachment (viveka-v
airagya) is yours.
Q: The only motive I can perceive is my own causeless and timeless happiness. An
d what is the
method?
M: Happiness is incidental. The true and effective motive is love. You see peopl
e suffer and you
seek the best way of helping them. The answer is obvious -- first put yourself b
eyond the need of
help. Be sure your attitude is of pure goodwill, free of expectation of any kind
.
Those who seek mere happiness may end up in sublime indifference, while love wil
l never rest.
As to method, there is only one -- you must come to know yourself -- both what y
ou appear to be
and what you are. Clarity and charity go together -- each needs and strengthens
the other.
Q: Compassion implies the existence of an objective world, full of avoidable sor
row.
M: The world is not objective and the sorrow of it is not avoidable. Compassion
is but another word
for the refusal to suffer for imaginary reasons.
Q: If the reasons are imaginary, why should the suffering be inevitable?
M: It is always the false that makes you suffer, the false desires and fears, th
e false values and
ideas, the false relationships between people. Abandon the false and you are fre
e of pain; truth
makes happy -- truth liberates.
Q: The truth is that I am a mind imprisoned in a body and this is a very unhappy
truth.
M: You are neither the body nor in the body -- there is no such thing as body. Y
ou have grievously
misunderstood yourself; to understand rightly -- investigate.
Q: But I was born as a body, in a body and shall die with the body, as a body.
M: This is your misconception. Enquire, investigate, doubt yourself and others.
To find truth, you
must not cling to your convictions; if you are sure of the immediate, you will n
ever reach the
ultimate. Your idea that you were born and that you will die is absurd: both log
ic and experience
contradict it.
Q: All right, I shall not insist that I am the body. You have a point here. But
here and now, as I talk
to you, I am in my body -- obviously. The body may not be me, but it is mine.
M: The entire universe contributes incessantly to your existence. Hence the enti
re universe is your
body. In that sense -- I agree.
Q: My body influences me deeply. In more than one way my body is my destiny. My
character, my
moods, the nature of my reactions, my desires and fears -- inborn or acquired --
they are all based
on the body. A little alcohol, some drug or other and all changes. Until the dru
g wears off I become
another man.
M: All this happens because you think yourself to be the body. realise your real
self and even drugs
will have no power over you.
Q: You smoke?
M: My body kept a few habits which may as well continue till it dies. There is n
o harm in them.
Q: You eat meat?
M: I was born among meat-eating people and my children are eating meat. I eat ve
ry little -- and
make no fuss.
Q: Meat-eating implies killing.
M: Obviously. I make no claims of consistency. You think absolute consistency is
possible; prove it
by example. Don't preach what you do not practise.
Coming back to the idea of having been born. You are stuck with what your parent
s told you: all
about conception, pregnancy and birth, infant, child, youngster, teenager, and s
o on. Now, divest
yourself of the idea that you are the body with the help of the contrary idea th
at you are not the
body. It is also an idea, no doubt; treat it like something to be abandoned when
its work is done.
The idea that I am not the body gives reality to the body, when in fact, there i
s no such thing as
body, it is but a state of mind. You can have as many bodies and as diverse as y
ou like; just
remember steadily what you want and reject the incompatibles.
Q: I am like a box within box, within box, the outer box acting as the body and
the one next to it --
as the indwelling soul. Abstract the outer box and the next becomes the body and
the one next to it
the soul. It is an infinite series, an endless opening of boxes, is the last one
the ultimate soul?
M: If you have a body, you must have a soul; here your simile of a nest of boxes
applies. But here
and now, through all your bodies and souls shines awareness, the pure light of c
hit. Hold on to it
unswervingly. Without awareness, the body would not last a second. There is in t
he body a current
of energy, affection and intelligence, which guides, maintains and energises the
body. Discover that
current and stay with it.
Of course, all these are manners of speaking. Words are as much a barrier, as a
bridge. Find the
spark of life that weaves the tissues of your body and be with it. It is the onl
y reality the body has.
Q: What happens to that spark of life after death?
M: It is beyond time. Birth and death are but points in time. Life weaves eterna
lly its many webs.
The weaving is in time, but life itself is timeless. Whatever name and shape you
give to its
expressions, it is like the ocean -- never changing, ever changing.
Q: All you say sounds beautifully convincing. yet my feeling of being just a per
son in a world
strange and alien, often inimical and dangerous, does not cease. Being a person,
limited in space
and time, how can I possibly realise myself as the opposite; a de-personalised,
universalised
awareness of nothing in particular?
M: You assert yourself to be what you are not and deny yourself to be what you a
re. You omit the
element of pure cognition, of awareness free from all personal distortions. Unle
ss you admit the
reality of chit, you will never know yourself.
Q: What am I to do? I do not see myself as you see me. Maybe you are right and I
am wrong, but
how can I cease to be what I feel I am?
M: A prince who believes himself to be a beggar can be convinced conclusively in
one way only: he
must behave as a prince and see what happens. Behave as if what I say is true an
d judge by what
actually happens. All I ask is the little faith needed for making the first step
. With experience will
come confidence and you will not need me any more. I know what you are and I am
telling you.
Trust me for a while.
Q: To be here and now, I need my body and its senses. To understand, I need a mi
nd.
M: The body and the mind are only symptoms of ignorance, of misapprehension. Beh
ave as if you
were pure awareness, bodiless and mindless, spaceless and timeless, beyond 'wher
e' and 'when'
and 'how'. Dwell on it, think of it, learn to accept its reality. Don't oppose i
t and deny it all the time.
Keep an open mind at least. Yoga is bending the outer to the inner. Make your mi
nd and body
express the real which is all and beyond all. By doing you succeed, not by argui
ng.
Q: Kindly allow me to come back to my first question. How does the error of bein
g a person
originate?
M: The absolute precedes time. Awareness comes first. A bundle of memories and m
ental habits
attracts attention, awareness gets focalised and a person suddenly appears. Remo
ve the light of
awareness, go to sleep or swoon away -- and the person disappears. The person (v
yakti) flickers,
awareness (vyakta) contains all space and time, the absolute (avyakta) is.
55. Give up All and You Gain All
Questioner: What is your state at the present moment?
Maharaj: A state of non-experiencing. In it all experience is included
Q: Can you enter into the mind and heart of another man and share his experience
?
M: No. Such things require special training. I am like a dealer In wheat. I know
little about breads
and cakes. Even the taste of a wheat-gruel I may not know. But about the wheat g
rain I know all
and well. I know the source of all experience. But the innumerable particular fo
rms experience can
take I do not know. Nor do I need to know. From moment to moment, the little I n
eed to know to live
my life, I somehow happen to know.
Q: Your particular existence and my particular existence, do they both exist in
the mind of Brahma?
M: The universal is not aware of the particular. The existence as a person is a
personal matter. A
person exists in time and space, has name and shape, beginning and end; the univ
ersal includes all
persons and the absolute is at the root of and beyond all.
Q: I am not concerned with the totality. My personal consciousness and your pers
onal
consciousness -- what is the link between the two?
M: Between two dreamers what can be the link?
Q: They may dream of each other.
M: That is what people are doing. Everyone imagines 'others' and seeks a link wi
th them. The
seeker is the link, there is none other.
Q: Surely there must be something in common between the many points of conscious
ness we are.
M: Where are the many points? In your mind. You insist that your world is indepe
ndent of your
mind. How can it be? Your desire to know other people's minds is due to your not
knowing your own
mind. First know your own mind and you will find that the question of other mind
s does not arise at
all, for there are no other people. You are the common factor, the only link bet
ween the minds.
Being is consciousness; 'I am' applies to all.
Q: The Supreme Reality (Parabrahman) may be present in all of us. But of what us
e is it to us?
M: You are like a man who says: 'I need a place where to keep my things, but of
what use is space
to me?' or 'I need milk, tea, coffee or soda, but for water I have no use'. Don'
t you see that the
Supreme Reality is what makes everything possible? But if you ask of what use is
it to you, I must
answer: 'None'. In matters of daily life the knower of the real has no advantage
: he may be at a
disadvantage rather: being free from greed and fear, he does not protect himself
. The very idea of
profit is foreign to him; he abhors accretions; his life is constant divesting o
neself, sharing, giving.
Q: If there is no advantage in gaining the Supreme, then why take the trouble?
M: There is trouble only when you cling to something. When you hold on to nothin
g, no trouble
arises. The relinquishing of the lesser is the gaining of the greater. Give up a
ll and you gain all.
Then life becomes what it was meant to be: pure radiation from an inexhaustible
source. In that light
the world appears dimly like a dream.
Q: If my world is merely a dream and you are a part of it, what can you do for m
e? If the dream is
not real, having no being, how can reality affect it?
M: While it lasts, the dream has temporary being. It is your desire to hold on t
o it, that creates the
problem. Let go. Stop imagining that the dream is yours.
Q: You seem to take for granted that there can be a dream without a dreamer and
that I identify
myself with the dream of my own sweet will. But I am the dreamer and the dream t
oo. Who is to
stop dreaming?
M: Let the dream unroll itself to its very end. You cannot help it. But you can
look at the dream as a
dream, refuse it the stamp of reality.
Q: Here am I, sitting before you. I am dreaming and you are watching me talking
in my dream.
What is the link between us?
M: My intention to wake you up is the link. My heart wants you awake. I see you
suffer in your
dream and I know that you must wake up to end your woes. When you see your dream
as dream,
you wake up. But in your dream itself I am not interested. Enough for me to know
that you must
wake up. You need not bring your dream to a definite conclusion, or make it nobl
e, or happy, or
beautiful; all you need is to realise that you are dreaming. Stop imagining, sto
p believing. See the
contradictions, the incongruities, the falsehood and the sorrow of the human sta
te, the need to go
beyond. Within the immensity of space floats a tiny atom of consciousness and in
it the entire
universe is contained.
Q: There are affections in the dream which seem real and everlasting. Do they di
sappear on
waking up?
M: In dream you love some and not others. On waking up you find you are love its
elf, embracing
all. Personal love, however intense and genuine, invariably binds; love in freed
om is love of all.
Q: People come and go. One loves whom one meets, one cannot love all.
M: When you are love itself, you are beyond time and numbers. In loving one you
love all, in loving
all, you love each. One and all are not exclusive.
Q: You say you are in a timeless state. Does it mean that past and future are op
en to you? Did
you meet Vashishta Muni, Rama's Guru?
M: The question is in time and about time. Again you are asking me about the con
tents of a dream.
Timelessness is beyond the illusion of time, it is not an extension in time. He
who called himself
Vashishta knew Vashishta. I am beyond all names and shapes. Vashishta is a dream
in your
dream. How can I know him? You are too much concerned with past and future. It i
s all due to your
longing to continue, to protect yourself against extinction. And as you want to
continue, you want
others to keep you company, hence your concern with their survival. But what you
call survival is
but the survival of a dream. Death is preferable to it . There is a chance of wa
king up .
Q: You are aware of eternity, therefore you are not concerned with survival.
M: It is the other way round. Freedom from all desire is eternity. All attachmen
t implies fear, for all
things are transient. And fear makes one a slave. This freedom from attachment d
oes not come
with practice; it is natural, when one knows one's true being. Love does not cli
ng; clinging is not love.
Q: So there is no way to gain detachment?
M: There is nothing to gain. Abandon all imaginings and know yourself as you are
. Self-knowledge
is detachment. All craving is due to a sense of insufficiency. When you know tha
t you lack nothing,
that all there is, is you and yours, desire ceases.
Q: To know myself must I practise awareness?
M: There is nothing to practise. To know yourself, be yourself. To be yourself,
stop imagining
yourself to be this or that. Just be. Let your true nature emerge. Don't disturb
your mind with
seeking.
Q: It will take much time if I Just wait for self-realisation.
M: What have you to wait for when it is already here and now? You have only to l
ook and see.
Look at your self, at your own being. You know that you are and you like it. Aba
ndon all imagining,
that is all. Do not rely on time. Time is death. Who waits -- dies. Life is now
only. Do not talk to me
about past and future -- they exist only in your mind.
Q: You too will die.
M: I am dead already. Physical death will make no difference in my case. I am ti
meless being. I am
free of desire or fear, because I do not remember the past, or imagine the futur
e. Where there are
no names and shapes, how can there be desire and fear? With desirelessness comes
timelessness. I am safe, because what is not, cannot touch what is. You feel uns
afe, because you
imagine danger. Of course, your body as such is complex and vulnerable and needs
protection. But
not you. Once you realise your own unassailable being, you will be at peace.
Q: How can I find peace when the world suffers?
M: The world suffers for very valid reasons. If you want to help the world, you
must be beyond the
need of help. Then all your doing as well as not doing will help the world most
effectively.
Q: How can non-action be of use where action is needed?
M: Where action is needed, action happens. Man is not the actor. His is to be aw
are of what is
going on. His very presence is action. The window is the absence of the wall and
it gives air and
light because it is empty. Be empty of all mental content, of all imagination an
d effort, and the very
absence of obstacles will cause reality to rush in. If you really want to help a
person, keep away. If
you are emotionally committed to helping, you will fail to help. You may be very
busy and be very
pleased with your charitable nature, but not much will be done. A man is really
helped when he is
no longer in need of help. All else is just futility.
Q: There is not enough time to sit and wait for help to happen. One must do some
thing.
M: By all means -- do. But what you can do is limited; the self alone is unlimit
ed. Give limitlessly --
of yourself. All else you can give in small measures only. You alone are immeasu
rable. To help is
your very nature. Even when you eat and drink you help your body. For yourself y
ou need nothing.
You are pure giving, beginning-less, endless, inexhaustible. When you see sorrow
and suffering, be
with it. Do not rush into activity. Neither learning nor action can really help.
 Be with sorrow and lay
bare its roots -- helping to understand is real help.
Q: My death is nearing.
M: Your body is short of time, not you. Time and space are in the mind only. You
are not bound.
Just understand yourself -- that itself is eternity.
56. Consciousness Arising, World Arises
Questioner: When an ordinary man dies, what happens to him?
Maharaj: According to his belief it happens, As life before death is but imagina
tion, so is life after.
The dream continues.
Q: And what about the jnani?
M: The jnani does not die because he was never born.
Q: He appears so to others.
M: But not to himself. In himself he is free of things -- physical and mental.
Q: Still you must know the state of the man who died. At least from your own pas
t lives.
M: Until I met my Guru I knew so many things. Now I know nothing, for all knowle
dge is in dream
only and not valid. I know myself and I find no life nor death in me, only pure
being -- not being this
or that, but just being. But the moment the mind, drawing on its stock of memori
es, begins to
imagine, it fills the space with objects and time with events. As I do not know
even this birth, how
can I know past births? It is the mind that, itself in movement, sees everything
moving, and having
created time, worries about the past and future. All the universe is cradled in
consciousness (maha
tattva), which arises where there is perfect order and harmony (maha sattva). As
all waves are in
the ocean, so are all things physical and mental in awareness. Hence awareness i
tself is all
important, not the content of it. Deepen and broaden your awareness of yourself
and all the
blessings will flow. You need not seek anything, all will come to you most natur
ally and effortlessly.
The five senses and the four functions of the mind -- memory, thought, understan
ding and selfhood;
the five elements -- earth, water, fire, air and ether; the two aspects of creat
ion -- matter and spirit,
all are contained in awareness.
Q: Yet, you must believe in having lived before.
M: The scriptures say so, but I know nothing about it. I know myself as I am; as
I appeared or will
appear is not within my experience. It is not that I do not remember. In fact th
ere is nothing to
remember. Reincarnation implies a reincarnating self. There is no such thing. Th
e bundle of
memories and hopes, called the 'I', imagines itself existing everlastingly and c
reates time to
accommodate its false eternity: To be, I need no past or future. All experience
is born of
imagination; I do not imagine, so no birth or death happens to me. Only those wh
o think themselves
born can think themselves re-born. You are accusing me of having been born -- I
plead not guilty!
All exists in awareness and awareness neither dies nor is reborn.
It is the changeless reality itself.
All the universe of experience is born with the body and dies with the body; it
has its beginning and
end in awareness, but awareness knows no beginning, nor end. If you think it out
carefully and
brood over it for a long time, you will come to see the light of awareness in al
l its clarity and the
world will fade out of your vision. It is like looking at a burning incense stic
k, you see the stick and
the smoke first; when you notice the fiery point, you realise that it has the po
wer to consume
mountains of sticks and fill the universe with smoke. Timelessly the self actual
ises itself, without
exhausting its infinite possibilities. In the incense stick simile the stick is
the body and the smoke is
the mind. As long as the mind is busy with its contortions, it does not perceive
its own source. The
Guru comes and turns your attention to the spark within. By its very nature the
mind is outward
turned; it always tends to seek for the source of things among the things themse
lves; to be told to
look for the source within, is, in a way, the beginning of a new life. Awareness
takes the place of
consciousness; in consciousness there is the 'I', who is conscious while awarene
ss is undivided;
awareness is aware of itself. The 'I am' is a thought, while awareness is not a
thought, there is no 'I
am aware' in awareness. Consciousness is an attribute while awareness is not; on
e can be aware
of being conscious, but not conscious of awareness. God is the totality of consc
iousness, but
awareness is beyond all -- being as well as not-being.
Q: I had started with the question about the condition of a man after death. Whe
n his body is
destroyed, what happens to his consciousness? Does he carry his senses of seeing
, hearing etc.
along with him or does he leave them behind? And, if he loses his senses, what b
ecomes to his
consciousness?
M: Senses are mere modes of perception. As the grosser modes disappear, finer st
ates of
consciousness emerge.
Q: Is there no transition to awareness after death?
M: There can be no transition from consciousness to awareness, for awareness is
not a form of
consciousness. Consciousness can only become more subtle and refined and that is
what happens
after death. As the various vehicles of man die off, the modes of consciousness
induced by them
also fade away.
Q: Until only unconsciousness remains?
M: Look at yourself talking of unconsciousness as something that comes and goes!
Who is there to
be conscious of unconsciousness? As long as the window is open, there is sunligh
t in the room.
With the windows shut, the sun remains, but does it see the darkness in the room
? Is there anything
like darkness to the sun? There is no such thing as unconsciousness, for unconsc
iousness is not
experienceable. We infer unconsciousness when there is a lapse in memory or comm
unication. If I
stop reacting, you will say that I am unconscious. In reality I may be most acut
ely conscious, only
unable to communicate or remember.
Q: I am asking a simple question: there are about four billion people in the wor
ld and they are all
bound to die. What will be their condition after death -- not physically, but ps
ychologically? Will their
consciousness continue? And if it does, in what form? Do not tell me that I am n
ot asking the right
question, or that you do not know the answer, or that in your world my question
is meaningless; the
moment you start talking about your world and my world as different and incompat
ible, you build a
wall between us. Either we live in one world or your experience is of no use to
us.
M: Of course we live in one world. Only I see it as it is, while you don't. You
see yourself in the
world, while I see the world in myself. To you, you get born and die, while to m
e, the world appears
and disappears. Our world is real, but your view of it is not. There is no wall
between us, except the
one built by you. There is nothing wrong with the senses, it is your imagination
that misleads you. It
covers up the world as it is, with what you imagine it to be -- something existi
ng independently of
you and yet closely following your inherited, or acquired patterns. There is a d
eep contradiction in
your attitude, which you do not see and which is the cause of sorrow. You cling
to the idea that you
were born into a world of pain and sorrow; I know that the world is a child of l
ove, having its
beginning, growth and fulfilment in love. But I am beyond love even.
Q: If you have created the world out of love, why is it so full of pain?
M: You are right -- from the body's point of view. But you are not the body. You
are the immensity
and infinity of consciousness. Don't assume what is not true and you will see th
ings as I see them.
Pain and pleasure, good and bad, right and wrong: these are relative terms and m
ust not be taken
absolutely. They are limited and temporary.
Q: In the Buddhist tradition it is stated that a Nirvani, an enlightened Buddha,
has the freedom of
the universe. He can know and experience for himself all that exists. He can com
mand, interfere
with nature, with the chain of causation, change the sequence of events, even un
do the past! The
world is still with him but he is free in it.
M: What you describe is God. Of course, where there is a universe, there will al
so be its
counterpart, which is God. But I am beyond both. There was a kingdom in search o
f a king. They
found the right man and made him king. In no way had he changed. He was merely g
iven the title,
the rights and the duties of a king. His nature was not affected, only his actio
ns. Similarly, with the
enlightened man; the content of his consciousness undergoes a radical transforma
tion. But he is
not misled. He knows the changeless.
Q: The changeless cannot be conscious. Consciousness is always of change. The ch
angeless
leaves no trace in consciousness.
M: Yes and no. The paper is not the writing, yet it carries the writing. The ink
is not the message,
nor is the reader's mind the message -- but they all make the message possible.
Q: Does consciousness come down from reality or is it an attribute of matter?
M: Consciousness as such is the subtle counterpart of matter. Just as inertia (t
amas) and energy
(rajas) are attributes of matter, so does harmony (sattva) manifest itself as co
nsciousness. You may
consider it in a way as a form of very subtle energy. Wherever matter organises
itself into a stable
organism, consciousness appears spontaneously. With the destruction of the organ
ism
consciousness disappears.
Q: Then what survives?
M: That, of which matter and consciousness are but aspects, which is neither bor
n nor dies.
Q: If it is beyond matter and consciousness, how can it be experienced?
M: It can be known by its effects on both; look for it in beauty and in bliss. B
ut you will understand
neither body nor consciousness, unless you go beyond both.
Q: Please tell us squarely: are you conscious or unconscious?
M: The enlightened (jnani) is neither. But in his enlightenment (jnana) all is c
ontained. Awareness
contains every experience. But he who is aware is beyond every experience. He is
beyond
awareness itself.
Q: There is the background of experience, call it matter. There is the experienc
er, call it mind.
What makes the bridge between the two?
M: The very gap between is the bridge. That, which at one end looks like matter
and at the other as
mind, is in itself the bridge. Don't separate reality into mind and body and the
re will be no need of
bridges.
Consciousness arising, the world arises. When you consider the wisdom and the be
auty of the
world, you call it God. Know the source of it all, which is in yourself, and you
will find all your
questions answered.
Q: The seer and the seen: are they one or two?
M: There is only seeing; both the seer and the seen are contained in it. Don't c
reate differences
where there are none.
Q: I began with the question about the man who died. You said that his experienc
es will shape
themselves according to his expectations and beliefs.
M: Before you were born you expected to live according to a plan, which you your
self had laid
down. Your own will was the backbone of your destiny.
Q: Surely, karma interfered.
M: Karma shapes the circumstances: the attitudes are your own. Ultimately your c
haracter shapes
your life and you alone can shape your character.
Q: How does one shape one's character?
M: By seeing it as it is, and being sincerely sorry. This integral seeing-feelin
g can work miracles. It
is like casting a bronze image; metal alone, or fire alone will not do; nor will
the mould be of any
use; you have to melt down the metal in the heat of the fire and cast it in the
mould.
57. Beyond Mind there is no Suffering
Questioner: I see you sitting in your son's house waiting for lunch to be served
. And I wonder
whether the content of your consciousness is similar to mine, or partly differen
t, or totally different.
Are you hungry and thirsty as I am, waiting rather impatiently for the meals to
be served, or are you
in an altogether different state of mind?
Maharaj: There is not much difference on the surface, but very much of it in dep
th. You know
yourself only through the senses and the mind. You take yourself to be what they
suggest; having
no direct knowledge of yourself, you have mere ideas; all mediocre, second-hand,
by hearsay.
Whatever you think you are you take it to be true; the habit of imagining yourse
lf perceivable and
describable is very strong with you.
I see as you see, hear as you hear, taste as you taste, eat as you eat. I also f
eel thirst and hunger
and expect my food to be served on time. When starved or sick, my body and mind
go weak. All this
I perceive quite clearly, but somehow I am not in it, I feel myself as if floati
ng over it, aloof and
detached. Even not aloof and detached. There is aloofness and detachment as ther
e is thirst and
hunger; there is also the awareness of it all and a sense of Immense distance, a
s if the body and
the mind and all that happens to them were somewhere far out on the horizon. I a
m like a cinema
screen -- clear and empty -- the pictures pass over it and disappear, leaving it
as clear and empty
as before. In no way is the screen affected by the pictures, nor are the picture
s affected by the
screen. The screen intercepts and reflects the pictures, it does not shape them.
It has nothing to do
with the rolls of films. These are as they are, lumps of destiny (prarabdha), bu
t not my destiny; the
destinies of the people on the screen.
Q: You do not mean to say that the people in a picture have destinies! They belo
ng to the story,
the story is not theirs.
M: And what about you? Do you shape your life or are you shaped by it?
Q: Yes, you are right. A life story unrolls itself of which I am one of the acto
rs. I have no being
outside it, as it has no being without me. I am merely a character, not a person
.
M: The character will become a person, when he begins to shape his life instead
of accepting it as
it comes, and identifying himself with it.
Q: When I ask a question and you answer, what exactly happens?
M: The question and the answer -- both appear on the screen. The lips move, the
body speaks --
and again the screen is clear and empty.
Q: When you say: clear and empty, what do you mean?
M: I mean free of all contents. To myself I am neither perceivable nor conceivab
le; there is nothing
I can point out and say: 'this I am'. You identify yourself with everything so e
asily, I find it
impossible. The feeling: 'I am not this or that, nor is anything mine' is so str
ong in me that as soon
as a thing or a thought appears, there comes at once the sense 'this I am not'.
Q: Do you mean to say that you spend your time repeating 'this I am not, that I
am not'?
M: Of course not. I am merely verbalizing for your sake. By the grace of my Guru
I have realised
once and for good that I am neither object nor subject and I do not need to remi
nd myself all the
time.
Q: I find it hard to grasp what exactly do you mean by saying that you are neith
er the object nor
the subject. At this very moment, as we talk, am I not the object of your experi
ence, and you the
subject?
M: Look, my thumb touches my forefinger. Both touch and are touched. When my att
ention; is on
the thumb, the thumb is the feeler and the forefinger -- the self. Shift the foc
us of attention and the
relationship is reversed. I find that somehow, by shifting the focus of attentio
n, I become the very
thing I look at and experience the kind of consciousness it has; I become the in
ner witness of the
thing. I call this capacity of entering other focal points of consciousness -- l
ove; you may give it any
name you like. Love says: 'I am everything'. Wisdom says: 'I am nothing' Between
the two my life
flows. Since at any point of time and space I can be both the subject and the ob
ject of experience, I
express it by saying that I am both, and neither, and beyond both.
Q: You make all these extraordinary statements about yourself. What makes you sa
y those
things? What do you mean by saying that you are beyond space and time?
M: You ask and the answer comes. I watch myself -- I watch the answer and see no
contradiction.
It is clear to me that I am telling you the truth. It is all very simple. Only y
ou must trust me that I
mean what I say, that I am quite serious. As I told you already, my Guru showed
me my true nature
-- and the true nature of the world. Having realised that I am one with, and yet
beyond the world, I
became free from all desire and fear. I did not reason out that I should be free
-- I found myself free
-- unexpectedly, without the least effort. This freedom from desire and fear rem
ained with me since
then. Another thing I noticed was that I do not need to make an effort; the deed
follows the thought,
without delay and friction. I have also found that thoughts become self-fulfilli
ng; things would fall in
place smoothly and rightly. The main change was in the mind; it became motionles
s and silent,
responding quickly, but not perpetuating the response. Spontaneity became a way
of life, the real
became natural and the natural became real. And above all, infinite affection, l
ove, dark and quiet,
radiating in all directions, embracing all, making all interesting and beautiful
, significant and
auspicious.
Q: We are told that various Yogic powers arise spontaneously in a man who has re
alised his own
true being. What is your experience in these matters?
M: Man's fivefold body (physical etc.) has potential powers beyond our wildest d
reams. Not only is
the entire universe reflected in man, but also the power to control the universe
 is waiting to be used
by him. The wise man is not anxious to use such powers, except when the situatio
n calls for them.
He finds the abilities and skills of the human personality quite adequate for th
e business of daily
living. Some of the powers can be developed by specialised training, but the man
who flaunts such
powers is still in bondage. The wise man counts nothing as his own. When at some
time and place
some miracle is attributed to some person, he will not establish any causal link
between events and
people, nor will he allow any conclusions to be drawn. All happened as it happen
ed because it had
to happen everything happens as it does, because the universe is as it is.
Q: The universe does not seem a happy place to live in. Why is there so much suf
fering?
M: Pain is physical; suffering is mental. Beyond the mind there is no suffering.
Pain is merely a
signal that the body is in danger and requires attention. Similarly, suffering w
arns us that the
structure of memories and habits, which we call the person (vyakti), is threaten
ed by loss or
change. Pain is essential for the survival of the body, but none compels you to
suffer. Suffering is
due entirely to clinging or resisting; it is a sign of our unwillingness to move
on, to flow with life.
As a sane life is free of pain, so is a saintly life free from suffering.
Q: Nobody has suffered more than saints.
M: Did they tell you, or do you say so on your own? The essence of saintliness i
s total acceptance
of the present moment, harmony with things as they happen. A saint does not want
things to be
different from what they are; he knows that, considering all factors, they are u
navoidable. He is
friendly with the inevitable and,. therefore, does not suffer. Pain he may know,
but it does not
shatter him. If he can, he does the needful to restore the lost balance -- or he
lets things take their
course.
Q: He may die.
M: So what? What does he gain by living on and what does he lose by dying? What
was born,
must die; what was never born cannot die. It all depends on what he takes himsel
f to be.
Q: Imagine you fall mortally ill. Would you not regret and resent?
M: But I am dead already, or, rather, neither alive nor dead. You see my body be
having the
habitual way and draw your own conclusions. You will not admit that your conclus
ions bind nobody
but you. Do see that the image you have of me may be altogether wrong. Your imag
e of yourself is
wrong too, but that is your problem. But you need not create problems for me and
then ask me to
solve them. I am neither creating problems nor solving them.
58. Perfection, Destiny of All
Questioner: When asked about the means for self-realisation, you invariably stre
ss the importance
of the mind dwelling on the sense 'I am'. Where is the causal factor? Why should
this particular
thought result in self-realisation? How does the contemplation of 'I am' affect
me?
Maharaj: The very fact of observation alters the observer and the observed. Afte
r all, what prevents
the insight into one's true nature is the weakness and obtuseness of the mind an
d its tendency to
skip the subtle and focus on the gross only. When you follow my advice and try t
o keep your mind
on the notion of 'I am' only, you become fully aware of your mind and its vagari
es. Awareness,
being lucid harmony (sattva) in action, dissolves dullness and quietens the rest
lessness of the mind
and gently, but steadily changes its very substance. This change need not be spe
ctacular; it may be
hardly noticeable; yet it is a deep and fundamental shift from darkness to light
, from inadvertence to
awareness.
Q: Must it be the 'I am' formula? Will not any other sentence do? If I concentra
te on 'there is a
table', will it not serve the same purpose?
M: As an exercise in concentration -- yes. But it will not take you beyond the i
dea of a table. You
are not interested in tables, you want to know yourself. For this keep steadily
in the focus of
consciousness the only clue you have: your certainty of being. Be with it, play
with it, ponder over it,
delve deeply into it, till the shell of ignorance breaks open and you emerge int
o the realm of reality.
Q: Is there any causal link between my focussing the 'I am' and the breaking of
the shell?
M: The urge to find oneself is a sign that you are getting ready. The impulse al
ways comes from
within. Unless your time has come, you will have neither the desire nor the stre
ngth to go for self-
enquiry whole-heartedly.
Q: Is not the grace of the Guru responsible for the desire and its fulfilment? I
s not the Guru's
radiant face the bait on which we are caught and pulled out of this mire of sorr
ow?
M: It is the Inner Guru (sadguru) who takes you to the Outer Guru, as a mother t
akes her child to a
teacher. Trust and obey your Guru, for he is the messenger of your Real Self.
Q: How do I find a Guru whom I can trust?
M: Your own heart will tell you. There is no difficulty in finding a Guru, becau
se the Guru is in
search of you. The Guru is always ready; you are not ready. You have to be ready
to learn; or you
may meet your Guru and waste your chance by sheer inattentiveness and obstinacy.
Take my
example; there was nothing in me of much promise, but when I met my Guru, I list
ened, trusted and
obeyed.
Q: Must I not examine the teacher before I put myself entirely into his hands?
M: By all means examine! But what can you find out? Only as he appears to you on
your own level.
Q: I shall watch whether he is consistent, whether there is harmony between his
life and his
teaching.
M: You may find plenty of disharmony -- so what? It proves nothing. Only motives
matter. How will
you know his motives?
Q: I should at least expect him to be a man of self-control who lives a righteou
s life.
M: Such you will find many -- and of no use to you. A Guru can show the way back
home, to your
real self. What has this to do with the character, or temperament of the person
he appears to be?
Does he not clearly tell you that he is not the person? The only way you can jud
ge is by the change
in yourself when you are in his company. If you feel more at peace and happy, if
you understand
yourself with more than usual clarity and depth, it means you have met the right
man. Take your
time, but once you have made up your mind to trust him, trust him absolutely and
follow every
instruction fully and faithfully. It does not matter much if you do not accept h
im as your Guru and are
satisfied with his company only. Satsang alone can also take you to your goal, p
rovided it is
unmixed and undisturbed. But once you accept somebody as your Guru, listen, reme
mber and
obey. Half-heartedness is a serious drawback and the cause of much self-created
sorrow. The
mistake is never the Guru's; it is always the obtuseness and cussedness of the d
iscipline that is at
fault.
Q: Does the Guru then dismiss, or disqualify a disciple?
M: He would not be a Guru if he did! He bides his time and waits till the discip
le, chastened and
sobered, comes back to him in a more receptive mood.
Q: What is the motive? Why does the Guru take so much trouble?
M: Sorrow and the ending of sorrow. He sees people suffering in their dreams and
he wants them
to wake up. Love is intolerant of pain and suffering. The patience of a Guru has
no limits and,
therefore, it cannot be defeated. The Guru never fails.
Q: Is my first Guru also my last, or do I have to pass from Guru to Guru?
M: The entire universe is your Guru. You learn from everything, if you are alert
and intelligent.
Were your mind clear and your heart clean, you would learn from every passer-by;
. It is because
you are indolent or restless, that your inner Self manifests as the outer Guru a
nd makes you trust
him and obey.
Q: Is a Guru inevitable?
M: It is like asking 'Is a mother inevitable?' To rise in consciousness from one
dimension to
another, you need help. The help may not always be in the shape of a human perso
n, it may be a
subtle presence, or a spark of intuition, but help must come. The inner Self is
watching and waiting
for the son to return to his father. At the right time he arranges everything af
fectionately and
effectively. Where a messenger is needed, or a guide, he sends the Guru to do th
e needful.
Q: There is one thing I cannot grasp. You speak of the inner self as wise and go
od and beautiful
and in every way perfect, and of the person as mere reflection without a being o
f its own. On the
other hand you take so much trouble in helping the person to realise itself. If
the person is so
unimportant, why be so concerned with its welfare? Who cares for a shadow?
M: You have brought in duality where there is none. There is the body and there
is the Self.
Between them is the mind, in which the Self is reflected as 'I am'. Because of t
he imperfections of
the mind, its crudity and restlessness, lack of discernment and insight, it take
s itself to be the body,
not the Self. All that is needed is to purify the mind so that it can realise it
s identity with the Self.
When the mind merges in the Self, the body presents no problems. It remains what
it is, an
instrument of cognition and action, the tool and the expression of the creative
fire within: The
ultimate value of the body is that it serves to discover the cosmic body, which
is the universe in its
entirety. As you realise yourself in manifestation, you keep on discovering that
you are ever more
than what you have imagined.
Q: Is there no end to self-discovery?
M: As there is no beginning, there is no end. But what I have discovered by the
grace of my Guru
is: I am nothing that can be pointed at. I am neither a 'this' nor a 'that'. Thi
s holds absolutely.
Q: Then, where comes in the never-ending discovery, the endless transcending one
self into hew
dimensions?
M: All this belongs to the realm of manifestation; it is in the very structure o
f the universe, that the
higher can be had only through the freedom from the lower.
Q: What is lower and what is higher?
M: Look at it in terms of awareness. Wider and deeper consciousness is higher. A
ll that lives,
works for protecting, perpetuating and expanding consciousness. This is the worl
d's sole meaning
and purpose. It is the very essence of Yoga -- ever raising the level of conscio
usness, discovery of
new dimensions, with their properties, qualities and powers. In that sense the e
ntire universe
becomes a school of Yoga (yogakshetra).
Q: Is perfection the destiny of all human beings?
M: Of all living beings -- ultimately. The possibility becomes a certainty when
the notion of
enlightenment appears in the mind. Once a living being has heard and understood
that deliverance
is within his reach, he will never forget, for it is the first message from with
in. It will take roots and
grow and in due course take the blessed shape of the Guru.
Q: So all we are concerned with is the redemption of the mind?
M: What else? The mind goes astray, the mind returns home. Even the word 'astray
' is not proper.
The mind must know itself in every mood. Nothing is a mistake unless repeated.
59. Desire and Fear: Self-centred States
Questioner: I would like to go again into the question of pleasure and pain, des
ire and fear. I
understand fear which is memory and anticipation of pain. It is essential for th
e preservation of the
organism and its living pattern. Needs, when felt, are painful and their anticip
ation is full of fear; we
are rightly afraid of not being able to meet our basic needs. The relief experie
nced when a need is
met, or an anxiety allayed is entirely due to the ending of pain. We may give it
positive names like
pleasure, or joy, or happiness, but essentially it is relief from pain. It is th
is fear of pain that holds
together our social, economic and political institutions.
What puzzles me is that we derive pleasure from things and states of mind, which
have nothing to
do with survival. On the contrary, our pleasures are usually destructive. They d
amage or destroy the
object, the instrument and also the subject of pleasure. Otherwise, pleasure and
pursuit of pleasure
would be no problem. This brings me to the core of my question: why is pleasure
destructive? Why,
in spite of its destructiveness, is it wanted?
I may add, I do not have in mind the pleasure-pain pattern by which nature compe
ls us to go her
way. I think of the man-made pleasures, both sensory and subtle, ranging from th
e grossest, like
overeating, to the most refined. Addiction to pleasure, at whatever cost, is so
universal that there
must be something significant at the root of it.
Of course, not every activity of man must be utilitarian, designed to meet a nee
d. Play, for example,
is natural and man is the most playful animal in existence. Play fulfils the nee
d for self-discovery
and self-development. But even on his play man becomes destructive of nature, ot
hers and himself.
Maharaj: In short, you do not object to pleasure, but only to its price in pain
and sorrow.
Q: If reality itself is bliss, then pleasure in some way must be related to it.
M: Let us not proceed by verbal logic. The bliss of reality does not exclude suf
fering. Besides, you
know only pleasure, not the bliss of pure being. So let us examine pleasure at i
ts own level.
If you look at yourself in your moments of pleasure or pain, you will invariably
find that it is not the
thing in itself that is pleasant or painful, but the situation of which it is a
part. Pleasure lies in the
relationship between the enjoyer and the enjoyed. And the essence of it is accep
tance. Whatever
may be the situation, if it is acceptable, it is pleasant. If it is not acceptab
le, it is painful. What makes
it acceptable is not important; the cause may be physical, or psychological, or
untraceable;
acceptance is the decisive factor. Obversely, suffering is due to nonacceptance.

Q: Pain is not acceptable.

M: Why not? Did you ever try? Do try and you will find in pain a joy which pleas
ure cannot yield, for
the simple reason that acceptance of pain takes you much deeper than pleasure do
es. The
personal self by its very nature is constantly pursuing pleasure and avoiding pa
in. The ending of this
pattern is the ending of the self. The ending of the self with its desires and f
ears enables you to
return to your real nature, the source of all happiness and peace. The perennial
desire for pleasure
is the reflection of the timeless harmony within. It is an observable fact that
one becomes self-
conscious only when caught in the conflict between pleasure and pain, which dema
nds choice and
decision. It is this clash between desire and fear that causes anger, which is t
he great destroyer of
sanity in life. When pain is accepted for what it is, a lesson and a warning, an
d deeply looked into
and heeded, the separation between pain and pleasure breaks down, both become ex
perience --
painful when resisted, joyful when accepted.
Q: Do you advise shunning pleasure and pursuing pain?
M: No, nor pursuing pleasure and shunning pain. Accept both as they come, enjoy
both while they
last, let them go, as they must.
Q: How can I possibly enjoy pain? Physical pain calls for action.
M: Of course. And so does Mental. The bliss is in the awareness of it, in not sh
rinking, or in any
way turning away from it. All happiness comes from awareness. The more we are co
nscious, the
deeper the joy. Acceptance of pain, non-resistance, courage and endurance -- the
se open deep
and perennial sources of real happiness, true bliss.
Q: Why should pain be more effective than pleasure?
M: Pleasure is readily accepted, while all the powers of the self reject pain. A
s the acceptance of
pain is the denial of the self, and the self stands in the way of true happiness
, the wholehearted
acceptance of pain releases the springs of happiness.
Q: Does the acceptance of suffering act the same way?
M: The fact of pain is easily brought within the focus of awareness. With suffer
ing it is not that
simple. To focus suffering is not enough, for mental life, as we know it, is one
continuous stream of
suffering. To reach the deeper layers of suffering you must go to its roots and
uncover their vast
underground network, where fear and desire are closely interwoven and the curren
ts of life's energy
oppose, obstruct and destroy each other.
Q: How can I set right a tangle which is entirely below the level of my consciou
sness?
M: By being with yourself, the 'I am'; by watching yourself in your daily life w
ith alert interest, with
the intention to understand rather than to judge, in full acceptance of whatever
may emerge,
because it is there, you encourage the deep to come to the surface and enrich yo
ur life and
consciousness with its captive energies. This is the great work of awareness; it
removes obstacles
and releases energies by understanding the nature of life and mind. Intelligence
is the door to
freedom and alert attention is the mother of intelligence.
Q: One more question. Why does pleasure end in pain?
M: Everything has a beginning and an end and so does pleasure. Don't anticipate
and don't regret,
and there will be no pain. it is memory and imagination that cause suffering.
Of course pain after pleasure may be due to the misuse of the body or the mind.
The body knows
its measure, but the mind does not. Its appetites are numberless and limitless.
Watch your mind
with great diligence, for there lies your bondage and also the key to freedom.
Q: My question is not yet fully answered: Why are man's pleasures destructive? W
hy does he find
so much pleasure in destruction? Life's concern lies in protection, perpetuation
and expansion of
itself. In this it is guided by pain and pleasure. At what point do they become
destructive?
M: When the mind takes over, remembers and anticipates, it exaggerates, it disto
rts, it overlooks.
The past is projected into future and the future betrays the expectations. The o
rgans of sensation
and action are stimulated beyond capacity and they inevitably break down. The ob
jects of pleasure
cannot yield what is expected of them and get worn out, or destroyed, by misuse.
It results in
excess of pain where pleasure was looked for.
Q: We destroy not only ourselves, but others too!
M: Naturally, selfishness is always destructive. Desire and fear, both are self-
centred states.
Between desire and fear anger arises, with anger hatred, with hatred passion for
destruction. War is
hatred in action, organised and equipped with all the instruments of death.
Q: Is there a way to end these horrors?
M: When more people come to know their real nature, their influence, however sub
tle, will prevail
and the world's emotional atmosphere will sweeten up. People follow their leader
s and when among
the leaders appear some, great in heart and mind, and absolutely free from self-
seeking, their
impact will be enough to make the crudities and crimes of the present age imposs
ible. A new
golden age may come and last for a time and succumb to its own perfection. For,
ebb begins when
the tide is at its highest.
Q: Is there no such thing as permanent perfection?
M: Yes, there is, but it includes all imperfection. It is the perfection of our
self-nature which makes
everything possible, perceivable, interesting. It knows no suffering, for it nei
ther likes nor dislikes;
neither accepts nor rejects. Creation and destruction are the two poles between
which it weaves its
ever-changing pattern. Be free from predilections and preferences and the mind w
ith its burden of
sorrow will be no more.
Q: But I am not alone to suffer. There are others.
M: When you go to them with your desires and fears, you merely add to their sorr
ows. First be free
of suffering yourself and then only hope of helping others. You do not even need
to hope -- your
very existence will be the greatest help a man can give his fellowmen.
60. Live Facts, not Fancies
Questioner: You say that whatever you see is yourself. You also admit that you s
ee the world as
we see it. Here is today's newspaper with All the horrors going on. Since the wo
rld is yourself, how
can you explain such misbehaviour?
Maharaj: Which world do you have in mind?
Q: Our common world, in which we live.
M: Are you sure we live in the same world? I do not mean nature, the sea and the
land, plants and
animals. They are not the problem, nor the endless space, the infinite time, the
inexhaustible power.
Do not be misled by my eating and smoking, reading and talking. My mind is not h
ere, my life is not
here. Your world, of desires and their fulfilments, of fears and their escapes,
is definitely not my
world. I do not even perceive it, except through what you tell me about it. It i
s your private dream
world and my only reaction to it is to ask you to stop dreaming.
Q: Surely, wars and revolutions are not dreams. Sick mothers and starving childr
en are not
dreams. Wealth, ill-gotten and misused, is not a dream.
M: What else?
Q: A dream cannot be shared.
M: Nor can the waking state. All the three states -- of waking, dreaming and sle
eping -- are
subjective, personal, intimate. They all happen to and are contained within the
little bubble in
consciousness, called 'I'. The real world lies beyond the self.
Q: Self or no self, facts are real.
M: Of course facts are real! I live among them. But you live with fancies, not w
ith facts. Facts never
clash, while your life and world are full of contradictions. Contradiction is th
e mark of the false; the
real never contradicts itself.
For instance, you complain that people are abjectly poor. Yet you do not share y
our riches with
them. You mind the war next door, but you hardly give it a thought when it is in
some far off country.
The shifting fortunes of your ego determine your values; 'I think', 'I want', 'I
must' are made into
absolutes.
Q: Nevertheless, the evil is real.
M: Not more real than you are. Evil is in the wrong approach to problems created
by
misunderstanding and misuse. It is a vicious circle.
Q: Can the circle be broken?
M: A false circle need not be broken. It is enough to see it as it is -- non-exi
stent.
Q: But, real enough to make us submit to and inflict indignities and atrocities.
M: Insanity is universal. Sanity is rare. Yet there is hope, because the moment
we perceive our
insanity, we are on the way to sanity. This is the function of the Guru -- to ma
ke us see the
madness of our daily living. Life makes you conscious, but the teacher makes you
aware.
Q: Sir, you are neither the first nor the last. Since immemorial times people we
re breaking into
reality. Yet how little it affected our lives! The Ramas and the Krishnas, the B
uddhas and the Christs
have come and gone and we are as we were; wallowing in sweat and tears. What hav
e the great
ones done, whose lives we witnessed? What have you done, Sir, to alleviate the w
orld's thrall?
M: You alone can undo the evil you have created. Your own callous selfishness is
at the root of it.
Put first your own house in order and you will see that your work is done.
Q: The men of wisdom and of love, who came before us, did set themselves right,
often at a
tremendous cost. What was the outcome? A shooting star, however bright, does not
make the night
less dark.
M: To judge them and their work you must become one of them. A frog in a well kn
ows nothing
about the birds in the sky.
Q: Do you mean to say that between good and evil there is no wall?
M: There is no wall, because there is no good and no evil. In every concrete sit
uation there is only
the necessary and the unnecessary. The needful is right, the needless is wrong.
Q: Who decides?
M: The situation decides. Every situation is a challenge which demands the right
response. When
the response is right, the challenge is met and the problem ceases. If the respo
nse is wrong, the
challenge is not met and the problem remains unsolved. Your unsolved problems --
that is what
constitutes your karma. Solve them rightly and be free.
Q: You seem to drive me always back into myself. Is there no objective solution
to the world's
problems?
M: The world problems were created by numberless people like you, each full of h
is own desires
and fears. Who can free you of your past, personal and social, except yourself?
And how will you do
it unless you see the urgent need of your being first free of cravings born of i
llusion? How can you
truly help, as long as you need help yourself?
Q: In what way did the ancient sages help? In what way do you help? A few indivi
duals profit, no
doubt; your guidance and example may mean a lot to them; but in what way do you
affect humanity,
the totality of life and consciousness? You say that you are the world and the w
orld is you; what
impact have you made on it?
M: What kind of Impact do you expect?
Q: Man is stupid, selfish, cruel.
M: Man is also wise, affectionate and kind.
Q: Why does not goodness prevail?
M: It does -- in my real world. In my world even what you call evil is the serva
nt of the good and
therefore necessary. It is like boils and fevers that clear the body of impuriti
es. Disease is painful,
even dangerous, but if dealt with rightly, it heals.
Q: Or kills.
M: In some cases death is the best cure. A life may be worse than death, which i
s but rarely an
unpleasant experience, whatever the appearances. Therefore, pity the living, nev
er the dead. This
problem of things, good and evil in themselves, does not exist in my world. The
needful is good and
the needless is evil. In your world the pleasant is good and the painful is evil
.
Q: What is necessary?
M: To grow is necessary. To outgrow is necessary. To leave behind the good for t
he sake of the
better is necessary.
Q: To what end?
M: The end is in the beginning. You end where you start -- in the Absolute.
Q: Why all this trouble then? To come back to where I started?
M: Whose trouble? Which trouble? Do you pity the seed that is to grow and multip
ly till it becomes
a mighty forest? Do you kill an infant to save him from the bother of living? Wh
at is wrong with life,
ever more life? Remove the obstacles to growing and all your personal, social, e
conomic and
political problems will just dissolve. The universe is perfect as a whole and th
e part's striving for
perfection is a way of joy. Willingly sacrifice the imperfect to the perfect and
there will be no more
talk about good and evil.
Q: Yet we are afraid of the better and cling to the worse.
M: This is our stupidity, verging on insanity.
61. Matter is Consciousness Itself
Questioner: I was lucky to have holy company all my life. Is it enough for self-
realisation?
Maharaj: It depends what you make of it.
Q: I was told that the liberating action of satsang is automatic. Just like a ri
ver carries one to the
estuary, so the subtle and silent influence of good people will take me to reali
ty.
M: It will take you to the river, but the crossing is your own. Freedom cannot b
e gained nor kept
without will-to-freedom. You must strive for liberation; the least you can do is
uncover and remove
the obstacles diligently. If you want peace you must strive for it. You will not
get peace just by
keeping quiet.
Q: A child just grows. He does not make plans for growth, nor has he a pattern;
nor does he grow
by fragments, a hand here a leg there; he grows integrally and unconsciously.
M: Because he is free of imagination. You can also grow like this, but you must
not indulge in
forecasts and plans, born of memory and anticipation. It is one of the peculiari
ties of a jnani that he
is not concerned with the future. Your concern with future is due to fear of pai
n and desire for
pleasure, to the jnani all is bliss: he is happy with whatever comes.
Q: Surely, there are many things that would make even a jnani miserable
M: A jnani may meet with difficulties, but they do not make him suffer. Bringing
up a child from birth
to maturity may seem a hard task, but to a mother the memories of hardships are
a joy. There is
nothing wrong with the world. What is wrong is in the way you look at it. It is
your own imagination
that misleads you. Without imagination there is no world. Your conviction that y
ou are conscious of
a world is the world. The world you perceive is made of consciousness; what you
call matter is
consciousness Itself. You are the space (akash) in which it moves, the time in w
hich it lasts, the
love that gives it life. Cut off imagination and attachment and what remains?
Q: The world remains. I remain.
M: Yes. But how different it is when you can see it as it is, not through the sc
reen of desire and fear.
Q: What for are all these distinctions -- reality and illusion, wisdom and ignor
ance, saint and
sinner? Everyone is in search of happiness, everyone strives desperately; everyo
ne is a Yogi and
his life a school of wisdom. Each learns his own way the lessons he needs. Socie
ty approves of
some, disapproves of others; there are no rules that apply everywhere and for al
l time.
M: In my world love is the only law. I do not ask for love, I give it. Such is m
y nature.
Q: I see you living your life according to a pattern. You run a meditation class
in the morning,
lecture and have discussions regularly; twice daily there is worship (puja) and
religious singing
(bhajan) in the evening. You seem to adhere to the routine scrupulously.
M: The worship and the singing are as I found them and I saw no reason to interf
ere. The general
routine is according to the wishes of the people with whom I happen to live or w
ho come to listen.
They are working people, with many obligations and the timings are for their con
venience. Some
repetitive routine is inevitable. Even animals and plants have their time-tables
.
Q: Yes, we see a regular sequence in all life. Who maintains the order? Is there
an inner ruler,
who lays down laws and enforces order?
M: Everything moves according to its nature. Where is the need of a policeman? E
very action
creates a reaction, which balances and neutralises the action. Everything happen
s, but there is a
continuous cancelling out, and in the end it is as if nothing happened.
Q: Do not console me with final harmonies. The accounts tally, but the loss is m
ine.
M: Wait and see. You may end up with a profit good enough to justify the outlays
.
Q: There is a long life behind me and I often wonder whether its many events too
k place by
accident, or there was a plan. Was there a pattern laid down before I was born b
y which I had to live
my life? If yes, who made the plans and who enforced them? Could there be deviat
ions and
mistakes? Some say destiny is immutable and every second of life is predetermine
d; others say
that pure accident decides everything.
M: You can have it as you like. You can distinguish in your life a pattern or se
e merely a chain of
accidents. Explanations are meant to please the mind. They need not be true. Rea
lity is indefinable
and indescribable.
Q: Sir, you are escaping my question! I want to know how you look at it. Whereve
r we look we find
structure of unbelievable intelligence and beauty. How can I believe that the un
iverse is formless
and chaotic? Your world, the world in which you live, may be formless, but it ne
ed not be chaotic.
M: The objective universe has structure, is orderly and beautiful. Nobody can de
ny it. But structure
and pattern, imply constraint and compulsion. My world is absolutely free; every
thing in it is self-
determined. Therefore I keep on saying that all happens by itself. There is orde
r in my world too, but
it is not Imposed from outside. It comes spontaneously and immediately, because
of its
timelessness. Perfection is not in the future. It is now.
Q: Does your world affect mine?
M: At one point only -- at the point of the now. It gives it momentary being, a
fleeting sense of
reality. In full awareness the contact is established. It needs effortless, un-s
elf-conscious attention.
Q: Is not attention an attitude of mind?
M: Yes, when the mind is eager for reality, it gives attention. There is nothing
wrong with your
world, it is your thinking yourself to be separate from it that creates disorder
. Selfishness is the
source of all evil.
Q: I am coming back to my question. Before I was born, did my inner self decide
the details of my
life, or was it entirely accidental and at the mercy of heredity and circumstanc
es?
M: Those who claim to have selected their father and mother and decided how they
are going to
live their next life may know for themselves. I know for myself. I was never bor
n.
Q: I see you sitting in front of me and replying my questions.
M: You see the body only which, of course, was born and will die.
Q: It is the life-story of thus body-mind that I am interested in. Was it laid d
own by you or
somebody else, or did it happen accidentally?
M: There is a catch in your very question. I make no distinction between the bod
y and the universe.
Each is the cause of the other; each is the other, in truth. But I am out of it
all. When I am telling you
that I was never born, why go on asking me what were my preparations for the nex
t birth? The
moment you allow your imagination to spin, it at once spins out a universe. It i
s not at all as you
imagine and I am not bound by your imaginings.
Q: It requires intelligence and energy to build and maintain a living body. Wher
e do they come
from?
M: There is only imagination. The intelligence and power are all used up in your
imagination. It has
absorbed you so completely that you just cannot grasp how far from reality you h
ave wandered. No
doubt imagination is richly creative. Universe within universe are built on it.
Yet they are all in space
and time, past and future, which just do not exist.
Q: I have read recently a report about a little girl who was very cruelly handle
d in her early
childhood. She was badly mutilated and disfigured and grew up in an orphanage, c
ompletely
estranged from its surroundings. This little girl was quiet and obedient, but co
mpletely indifferent.
One of the nuns who were looking after the children, was convinced that the girl
was not mentally
retarded, but merely withdrawn, irresponsive. A psychoanalyst was asked to take
up the case and
for full two years he would see the child once a week and try to break the wall
of isolation. She was
docile and well-behaved, but would give no attention to her doctor. He brought h
er a toy house, with
rooms and movable furniture and dolls representing father, mother and their chil
dren. It brought out
a response, the girl got interested. One day the old hurts revived and came to t
he surface.
Gradually she recovered, a number of operations brought back her face and body t
o normal and
she grew into an efficient and attractive young woman. It took the doctor more t
han five years, but
the work was done. He was a real Guru! He did not put down conditions nor talk a
bout readiness
and eligibility. Without faith, without hope, out of love only he tried and trie
d again.
M: Yes, that is the nature of a Guru. He will never give up. But, to succeed, he
must not be met
with too much resistance. Doubt and disobedience necessarily delay. Given confid
ence and
pliability, he can bring about a radical change in the disciple speedily. Deep i
nsight in the Guru and
earnestness in the disciple, both are needed. Whatever was her condition, the gi
rl in your story
suffered for lack of earnestness in people. The most difficult are the intellect
uals. They talk a lot, but
are not serious.
What you call realisation is a natural thing. When you are ready, your Guru will
be waiting. Sadhana
is effortless. When the relationship with your teacher is right you grow. Above
all, trust him. He
cannot mislead you.
Q: Even when he asks me to do something patently wrong?
M: Do it. A Sanyasi had been asked by his Guru to marry. He obeyed and suffered
bitterly. But his
four children were all saints and seers, the greatest in Maharashtra. Be happy w
ith whatever comes
from your Guru and you will grow to perfection without striving.
Q: Sir, have you any wants or wishes. Can I do anything for you?
M: What can you give me that I do not have? Material things are needed for conte
ntment. But I am
contented with myself. What else do I need?
Q: Surely, when you are hungry you need food and when sick you need medicine.
M: Hunger brings the food and illness brings the medicine. It is all nature's wo
rk.
Q: lf I bring something I believe you need, will you accept it?
M: The love that made you offer will make me accept.
Q: If somebody offers to build you a beautiful Ashram?
M: Let him, by all means. Let him spend a fortune, employ hundreds, feed thousan
ds.
Q: Is it not a desire?
M: Not at all. I am only asking him to do it properly, not stingily, half-hearte
dly. He is fulfilling his
own desire, not mine. Let him do it well and be famous among men and gods.
Q: But do you want it?
M: I do not want it.
Q: Will you accept it?
M: I don't need it.
Q: Will you stay in it?
M: If I am compelled.
Q: What can compel you?
M: Love of those who are in search of light.
Q: Yes, I see your point. Now, how am I to go into samadhi?
M: If you are in the right state, whatever you see will put you into samadhi. Af
ter all, samadhi is
nothing unusual. When the mind is intensely interested, it becomes one with the
object of interest --
the seer and the seen become one in seeing, the hearer and the heard become one
in hearing, the
lover and the loved become one in loving. Every experience can be the ground for
samadhi.
Q: Are you always in a state of samadhi?
M: Of course not Samadhi is a state of mind, after all. I am beyond all experien
ce, even of
samadhi. I am the great devourer and destroyer: whatever I touch dissolves into
void (akash).
Q: I need samadhis for self-realisation.
M: You have all the self-realisation you need, but you do not trust it. Have cou
rage, trust yourself,
go, talk, act; give it a chance to prove itself. With some, realisation comes im
perceptibly, but
somehow they need convincing. They have changed, but they do not notice it. Such
non-
spectacular cases are often the most reliable.
Q: Can one believe himself to be realised and be mistaken?
M: Of course. The very idea 'I am self-realised' is a mistake. There is no 'I am
this'. 'I am that' in the
Natural State.
62. In the Supreme the Witness Appears
Questioner: Some forty years ago J. Krishnamurti said that there is life only an
d all talk of
personalities and individualities has no foundation in reality. He did not attem
pt to describe life -- he
merely said that while life need not and cannot be described, it can be fully ex
perienced, if the
obstacles to its being experienced are removed. The main hindrance lies in our i
dea of, and
addiction to, time, in our habit of anticipating a future in the light of the pa
st. The sum total of the
past becomes the 'I was', the hoped for future becomes the 'I shall be' and life
is a constant effort of
crossing over from what 'I was' to what I shall be'. The present moment, the. 'no
w' is lost sight of.
Maharaj speaks of 'I am'. Is it an illusion, like 'I was' and 'I shall be', or i
s there something real about
it? And if the I am' too is an illusion, how does one free oneself from it? The v
ery notion of I am free
of 'I am' is an absurdity. Is there something real, something lasting about the
'I am' in distinction
from the 'I was', or I shall be', which change with time, as added memories creat
e new
expectations?
Maharaj: The present 'I am' is as false as the 'I was' and 'I shall be'. It is m
erely an idea in the mind,
an impression left by memory, and the separate identity it creates is false. thi
s habit of referring to a
false centre must be done away with, the notion 'I see', 'I feel', 'I think', 'I
do', must disappear from
the field of consciousness; what remains when the false is no more, is real.
Q: What is this big talk about elimination of the self? How can the self elimina
te itself? What kind
of metaphysical acrobatics can lead to the disappearance of the acrobat? In the
end he will
reappear, mightily proud of his disappearing.
M: You need not chase the 'I am' to kill it. You cannot. All you need is a since
re longing for reality.
We call it atma-bhakti, the love of the Supreme: or moksha-sankalpa, the determi
nation to be free
from the false. Without love, and will inspired by love, nothing can be done. Me
rely talking about
Reality without doing anything about it is self-defeating. There must be love in
the relation between
the person who says 'I am' and the observer of that 'I am'. As long as the obser
ver, the inner self,
the 'higher' self, considers himself apart from the observed, the 'lower' self,
despises it and
condemns it, the situation is hopeless. It is only when the observer (vyakta) ac
cepts the person
(vyakti) as a projection or manifestation of himself, and, so to say, takes the
self into the Self, the
duality of 'I' and 'this' goes and in the identity of the outer and the inner th
e Supreme Reality
manifests itself.
This union of the seer and the seen happens when the seer becomes conscious of h
imself as the
seer, he is not merely interested in the seen, which he is anyhow, but also inte
rested in being
interested, giving attention to attention, aware of being aware. Affectionate aw
areness is the crucial
factor that brings Reality into focus.
Q: According to the Theosophists and allied occultists, man consists of three as
pects: personality,
individuality and spirituality. Beyond spirituality lies divinity. The personali
ty is strictly temporary and
valid for one birth only. It begins with the birth of the body and ends with the
birth of the next body.
Once over, it is over for good; nothing remains of it except a few sweet or bitt
er lessons.
The individuality begins with the animal-man and ends with the fully human. The
split between the
personality and individuality is characteristic of our present-day humanity. On
one side the
individuality with its longing for the true, the good and the beautiful; on the
other side an ugly
struggle between habit and ambition, fear and greed, passivity and violence.
The spirituality aspect is still in abeyance. It cannot manifest itself in an at
mosphere of duality. Only
when the personality is reunited with the individuality and becomes a limited, p
erhaps, but true
expression of it, that the light and love and beauty of the spiritual come into
their own.
You teach of the vyakti, vyakta, avyakta (observer, observed and ground of obser
vation). Does it
tally with the other view?
M: Yes, when the vyakti realises its non-existence in separation from the vyakta
, and the vyakta
sees the vyakti as his own expression, then the peace and silence of the avyakta
state come into
being. In reality, the three are one: the vyakta and the avyakta are inseparable
, while the vyakti is
the sensing-feeling-thinking process, based on the body made of and fed by the f
ive elements.
Q: What is the relation between the vyakta and the avyakta?
M: How can there be relation when they are one? All talk of separation and relat
ion is due to the
distorting and corrupting influence of 'I-am-the-body' idea. The outer self (vya
kti) is merely a
projection on the body-mind of the inner self (vyakta), which again is only an e
xpression of the
Supreme Self (avyakta) which is all and none.
Q: There are teachers who will not talk of the higher self and lower self. They
address the man as
if only the lower self existed. Neither Buddha nor Christ ever mentioned a highe
r self. J.
Krishnamurti too fights shy of any mention of the higher self. Why is it so?
M: How can there be two selves in one body? The 'I am' is one. There is no higher
I-am' and lower
I-am'. All kinds of states of mind are presented to awareness and there is self-
identification with
them. The objects of observation are not what they appear to be and the attitude
s they are met with
are not what they need be. If you think that Buddha, Christ or Krishnamurti spea
k to the person, you
are mistaken. They know well that the vyakti, the outer self, is but a shadow of
the vyakta, the inner
self, and they address and admonish the vyakta only. They tell him to give atten
tion to the outer
self, to guide and help it, to feel responsible for it; in short, to be fully aw
are of it. Awareness comes
from the Supreme and pervades the inner self; the so-called outer self is only t
hat part of one's
being of which one is not aware. One may be conscious, for every being is consci
ous, but one is not
aware. What is included in awareness becomes the inner and partakes of the inner
. You may put it
differently: the body defines the outer self, consciousness the inner, and in pu
re awareness the
Supreme is contacted.
Q: You said the body defines the outer self. Since you have a body, do you have
also an outer
self?
M: I would, were I attached to the body and take it to be myself.
Q: But you are aware of it and attend to its needs.
M: The contrary is nearer to truth -- the body knows me and is aware of my needs
. But neither is
really so. This body appears in your mind; in my mind nothing is.
Q: Do you mean to say you are quite unconscious of having a body?
M: On the contrary, I am conscious of not having a body.
Q: I see you smoking!
M: Exactly so. You see me smoking. Find out for yourself how did you come to see
me Smoking,
and you will easily realise that it is your 'I-am-the-body' state of mind that i
s responsible for this 'I-
see-you-smoking' idea.
Q: There is the body and there is myself. I know the body. Apart from it, what a
m l?
M: There is no 'I' apart from the body, nor the world. The three appear and disa
ppear together. At
the root is the sense 'I am'. Go beyond it. The idea: 'I-am-not-the-body' is mer
ely an antidote to the
idea 'I-am-the-body' which is false. What is that 'I am ? Unless you know yourself
, what else can you
know?
Q: From what you say I conclude that without the body there can be no liberation
. If the idea: 'I-am-
not-the-body' leads to liberation, the presence of the body is essential.
M: Quite right. Without the body, how can the idea: I-am-not-the-body' come into
being? The idea
I-am-free' is as false as the idea 'I-am-in-bondage'. Find out the I am' common to
both and go
beyond.
Q: All is a dream only.
M: All are mere words, of what use are they to you? You are entangled in the web
of verbal
definitions and formulations. Go beyond your concepts and ideas; in the silence
of desire and
thought the truth is found.
Q: One has to remember not to remember. What a task!
M: It cannot be done, of course. It must happen. But it does happen when you tru
ly see the need of
it. Again, earnestness is the golden key.
Q: At the back of my mind there is a hum going on all the time. Numerous weak th
oughts swarm
and buzz and this shapeless cloud is always with me. Is it the same with you? Wh
at is at the back
of your mind?
M: Where there is no mind, there is no back to it. I am all front, no back! The
void speaks, the void
remains.
Q: Is there no memory left?
M: No memory of past pleasure or pain is left. Each moment is newly born.
Q: Without memory you cannot be conscious.
M: Of course I am conscious, and fully aware of it. I am not a block of wood! Co
mpare
consciousness and its content to a cloud. You are inside the cloud, while I look
at. You are lost in it,
hardly able to see the tips of your fingers, while I see the cloud and many othe
r clouds and the blue
sky too and the sun, the moon, the stars. Reality is one for both of us, but for
you it is a prison and
for me it is a home.
Q: You spoke of the person (vyakti), the witness (vyakta) and the Supreme (avyak
ta). Which
comes first?
M: In the Supreme the witness appears. The witness creates the person and thinks
itself as
separate from it. The witness sees that the person appears in consciousness whic
h again appears
in the witness. This realisation of the basic unity is the working of the Suprem
e. It is the power
behind the witness, the source from which all flows. It cannot be contacted, unl
ess there is unity and
love and mutual help between the person and the witness, unless the doing is in
harmony with the
being and the knowing. The Supreme is both the source and the fruit of such harm
ony. As I talk to
you, I am in the state of detached but affectionate awareness (turiya). When thi
s awareness turns
upon itself, you may call it the Supreme State, (turiyatita). But the fundamenta
l reality is beyond
awareness, beyond the three states of becoming, being and not-being.
Q: How is it that here my mind is engaged in high topics and finds dwelling on t
hem easy and
pleasant. When I return home I find myself forgetting all l have learnt here, wo
rrying and fretting,
unable to remember my real nature even for a moment. What may be the cause?
M: It is your childishness you are returning to. You are not fully grown up; the
re are levels left
undeveloped because unattended. Just give full attention to what in you is crude
and primitive,
unreasonable and unkind, altogether childish, and you will ripen. It is the matu
rity of heart and mind
that is essential. It comes effortlessly when the main obstacle is removed -- in
attention,
unawareness. In awareness you grow.
63. Notion of Doership is Bondage
Questioner: We have been staying at the Satya Sai Baba Ashram for some time. We
have also
spent two months at Sri Ramanashram at Tiruvannamalai. Now we are on our way bac
k to the
United States.
Maharaj: Did India cause any change in you?
Q: We feel we have shed our burden. Sri Satya Sai Baba told us to leave everythi
ng to him and
just live from day to day as righteously as possible. 'Be good and leave the res
t to me', he used to
tell us.
M: What were you doing at the Sri Ramanashram?
Q: We were going on with the mantra given to us by the Guru. We also did some me
ditation.
There was not much of thinking or study; we were just trying to keep quiet. We a
re on the bhakti
path and rather poor in philosophy. We have not much to think about -- just trus
t our Guru and live
our lives.
M: Most of the bhaktas trust their Guru only as long as all is well with them. W
hen troubles come,
they feel let down and go out in search of another Guru.
Q: Yes, we were warned against this danger. We are trying to take the hard along
with the soft.
The feeling: 'All is Grace' must be very strong. A sadhu was walking eastwards,
from where a
strong wind started blowing. The sadhu just turned round and walked west. We hop
e to live just like
that -- adjusting ourselves to circumstances as sent us by our Guru.
M: There is only life. There is nobody who lives a life.
Q: That we understand, yet constantly we make attempts to live our lives instead
of just living.
Making plans for the future seems to be an inveterate habit with us.
M: Whether you plan or don't, life goes on. But in life itself a little whorl ar
ises in the mind, which
indulges in fantasies and imagines itself dominating and controlling life. Life
itself is desireless. But
the false self wants to continue -- pleasantly. Therefore it is always engaged i
n ensuring one's
continuity. Life is unafraid and free. As long as you have the idea of influenci
ng events, liberation is
not for you: The very notion of doership, of being a cause, is bondage.
Q: How can we overcome the duality of the doer and the done?
M: Contemplate life as infinite, undivided, ever present, ever active, until you
realise yourself as
one with it. It is not even very difficult, for you will be returning only to yo
ur own natural condition.
Once you realise that all comes from within, that the world in which you live ha
s not been projected
onto you but by you, your fear comes to an end. Without this realisation you ide
ntify yourself with
the externals, like the body, mind, society, nation, humanity, even God or the A
bsolute. But these
are all escapes from fear. It is only when you fully accept your responsibility
for the little world in
which you live and watch the process of its creation, preservation and destructi
on, that you may be
free from your imaginary bondage.
Q: Why should I imagine myself so wretched?
M: You do it by habit only. Change your ways of feeling and thinking, take stock
of them and
examine them closely. You are in bondage by inadvertence. Attention liberates. Y
ou are taking so
many things for granted. Begin to question. The most obvious things are the most
doubtful. Ask
yourself such questions as: Was I really born?' 'Am I really so-and-so? 'How do I
know that I exist?
'Who are my parents? 'Have they created me, or have I created them?' 'Must I beli
eve all I am told
about myself?' Who am I, anyhow?'. You have put so much energy into building a pr
ison for
yourself. Now spend as much on demolishing it. In fact, demolition is easy, for
the false dissolves
when it is discovered. All hangs on the idea 'I am'. Examine it very thoroughly.
It lies at the root of
every trouble. It is a sort of skin that separates you from the reality. The rea
l is both within and
without the skin, but the skin itself is not real. This 'I am' idea was not born
with you. You could have
lived very well without it. It came later due to your self-identification with t
he body. It created an
illusion of separation where there was none. It made you a stranger in your own
world and made
the world alien and inimical. Without the sense of 'I am' life goes on. There ar
e moments when we
are without the sense of 'I am'. at peace and happy. With the return of the 'I a
m' trouble starts.
Q: How is one to be free from the 'I'-sense?
M: You must deal with the 'I'-sense if you want to be free of it. Watch it in op
eration and at peace,
how it starts and when it ceases, what it wants and how it gets it, till you see
clearly and understand
fully. After all, all the Yogas, whatever their source and character, have only
one aim: to save you
from the calamity of separate existence, of being a meaningless dot in a vast an
d beautiful picture.
You suffer because you have alienated yourself from reality and now you seek an
escape from this
alienation. You cannot escape from your own obsessions. You can only cease nursi
ng them.
It is because the I am' is false that it wants to continue. Reality need not cont
inue -- knowing itself
indestructible, it is indifferent to the destruction of forms and expressions. T
o strengthen, and
stabilise the 'I am' we do all sorts of things -- all in vain, for the 'I am' is
being rebuilt from moment to
moment. It is unceasing work and the only radical solution is to dissolve the se
parative sense of 'I
am such-and-such person' once and for good. Being remains, but not self-being.
Q: I have definite spiritual ambitions. Must I not work for their fulfilment?
M: No ambition is spiritual. All ambitions are for the sake of the 'I am'. If yo
u want to make real
progress you must give up all idea of personal attainment. The ambitions of the
so-called Yogis are
preposterous. A man's desire for a woman is innocence itself compared to the lus
ting for an
everlasting personal bliss. The mind is a cheat. The more pious it seems, the wo
rse the betrayal.
Q: People come to you very often with their worldly troubles and ask for help. H
ow do you know
what to tell them?
M: I just tell them what comes to my mind at the moment. I have no standardised
procedure in
dealing with people.
Q: You are sure of yourself. But when people come to me for advice, how am I to
be sure that my
advice is right?
M: Watch in what state you are, from what level you talk. If you talk from the m
ind, you may be
wrong. If you talk from full insight into the situation, with your own mental ha
bits in abeyance your
advice may be a true response. The main point is to be fully aware that neither
you nor the man in
front of you are mere bodies; If your awareness is clear and full. a mistake is
less probable.
64. Whatever pleases you, Keeps you Back
Questioner: I am a retired chartered accountant and my wife is engaged in social
work for poor
women. Our son is leaving for the United States and we came to see him off. We a
re Panjabis but
we live in Delhi. We have a Guru of the Radha-Soami faith and we value satsang h
ighly. We feel
very fortunate to be brought here. We have met many holy people and we are glad
to meet one
more.
Maharaj: You have met many anchorites and ascetics, but a fully realised man con
scious of his
divinity (swarupa) is hard to find. The saints and Yogis, by immense efforts and
sacrifices, acquire
many miraculous powers and can do much good in the way of helping people and ins
piring faith, yet
it does not make them perfect. It is not a way to reality, but merely an enrichm
ent of the false. All
effort leads to more effort; whatever was built up must be maintained, whatever
was acquired must
be protected against decay or loss. Whatever can be lost is not really one's own
; and what is not
your own of what use can it be to you? In my world nothing is pushed about, all
happens by itself.
All existence is in space and time, limited and temporary. He who experiences ex
istence is also
limited and temporary. I am not concerned either with 'what exists' or with 'who
exists'. I take my
stand beyond, where I am both and neither.
The persons who, after much effort and penance, have fulfilled their ambitions a
nd secured higher
levels of experience and action, are usually acutely conscious of their standing
; they grade people
into hierarchies, ranging from the lowest non-achiever to the highest achiever.
To me all are equal.
Differences in appearance and expression are there, but they do not matter. Just
as the shape of a
gold ornament does not affect the gold, so does man's essence remain unaffected.
Where this
sense of equality is lacking it means that reality had not been touched.
Mere knowledge is not enough; the knower must be known. The Pandits and the Yogi
s may know
many things, but of what use is mere knowledge when the self is not known? It wi
ll be certainly
misused. Without the knowledge of the knower there can be no peace.
Q: How does one come to know the knower?
M: I can only tell you what I know from my own experience. When I met my Guru, h
e told me: 'You
are not what you take yourself to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense 'I
am', find your real
self'. I obeyed him, because I trusted him. I did as he told me. All my spare ti
me I would spend
looking at myself in silence. And what a difference it made, and how soon! It to
ok me only three
years to realise my true nature. My Guru died soon after I met him, but it made
no difference. I
remembered what he told me and persevered. The fruit of it is here, with me.
Q: What is it?
M: I know myself as I am in reality. I am neither the body, nor the mind, nor th
e mental faculties. I
am beyond all these.
Q: Are you just nothing?
M: Come on, be reasonable. Of course I am, most tangibly. Only I am not what you
may think me
to be. This tells you all.
Q: It tells me nothing.
M: Because it cannot be told. You must gain your own experience. You are accusto
med to deal
with things, physical and mental. I am not a thing, nor are you. We are neither
matter nor energy,
neither body nor mind. Once you have a glimpse of your own being, you will not f
ind me difficult to
understand.
We believe in so many things on hearsay. We believe in distant lands and people,
in heavens and
hells, in gods and goddesses, because we were told. Similarly, we were told abou
t ourselves, our
parents, name, position, duties and so on. We never cared to verify. The way to
truth lies through
the destruction of the false. To destroy the false, you must question your most
inveterate beliefs. Of
these the idea that you are the body is the worst. With the body comes the world
, with the world --
God, who is supposed to have created the world and thus it starts -- fears, reli
gions, prayers,
sacrifices, all sorts of systems -- all to protect and support the child-man, fr
ightened out of his wits
by monsters of his own making. realise that what you are cannot be born nor die
and with the fear
gone all suffering ends.
What the mind invents, the mind destroys. But the real is not invented and canno
t be destroyed.
Hold on to that over which the mind has no power. What I am telling you about is
neither in the past
nor in the future. Nor is it in the daily life as it flows in the now. It is tim
eless and the total
timelessness of it is beyond the mind. My Guru and his words: 'You are myself' a
re timelessly with
me. In the beginning I had to fix my mind on them, but now it has become natural
and easy. The
point when the mind accepts the words of the Guru as true and lives by them spon
taneously and in
every detail of daily life is the threshold of realisation. In a way it is salva
tion by faith, but the faith
must be intense and lasting.
However, you must not think that faith itself is enough. Faith expressed in acti
on is a sure means to
realisation. Of all the means it is the most effective. There are teachers who d
eny faith and trust
reason only. Actually it is not faith they deny, but blind beliefs. Faith is not
blind. It is the willingness
to try.
Q: We were told that of all forms of spiritual practices the practice of the att
itude of a mere witness
is the most efficacious. How does it compare with faith?
M: The witness attitude is also faith; it is faith in oneself. You believe that
you are not what you
experience and you look at everything as from a distance. There is no effort in
witnessing. You
understand that you are the witness only and the understanding acts. You need no
thing more, just
remember that you are the witness only. If in the state of witnessing you ask yo
urself: 'Who am I?',
the answer comes at once, though it is wordless and silent. Cease to be the obje
ct and become the
subject of all that happens; once having turned within, you will find yourself b
eyond the subject.
When you have found yourself, you will find that you are also beyond the object,
that both the
subject and the object exist in you, but you are neither.
Q: You speak of the mind, of the witnessing consciousness beyond the mind and of
the Supreme,
which is beyond awareness. Do you mean to say that even awareness is not real?
M: As long as you deal in terms: real -- unreal; awareness is the only reality t
hat can be. But the
Supreme is beyond all distinctions and to it the term 'real' does not apply, for
in it all is real and,
therefore, need not be labelled as such. It is the very source of reality, it im
parts reality to whatever
it touches. It just cannot be understood through words. Even a direct experience
, however sublime,
merely bears testimony, nothing more.
Q: But who creates the world?
M: The Universal Mind (chidakash) makes and unmakes everything. The Supreme (par
amakash)
imparts reality to whatever comes into being. To say that it is the universal lo
ve may be the nearest
we can come to it in words. Just like love it makes everything real, beautiful,
desirable.
Q: Why desirable?
M: Why not? Wherefrom come all the powerful attractions that make all created th
ings respond to
each other, that bring people together, if not from the Supreme? Shun not desire
; see only that it
flows into the right channels. Without desire you are dead. But with low desires
you are a ghost.
Q: What is the experience which comes nearest to the Supreme?
M: Immense peace and boundless love. realise that whatever there is true, noble
and beautiful in
the universe, it all comes from you, that you yourself are at the source of it.
The gods and
goddesses that supervise the world may be most wonderful and glorious beings; ye
t they are like
the gorgeously dressed servants who proclaim the power and the riches of their m
aster.
Q: How does one reach the Supreme State?
M: By renouncing all lesser desires. As long as you are pleased with the lesser,
you cannot have
the highest. Whatever pleases you, keeps you back. Until you realise the unsatis
factoriness of
everything, its transiency and limitation, and collect your energies in one grea
t longing, even the first
step is not made. On the other hand, the integrity of the desire for the Supreme
is by itself a call
from the Supreme. Nothing, physical or mental, can give you freedom. You are fre
e once you
understand that your bondage is of your own making and you cease forging the cha
ins that bind
you.
Q: How does one find the faith in a Guru?
M: To find the Guru and also the trust in him is rare luck. It does not happen o
ften.
Q: Is it destiny that ordains?
M: Calling it destiny explains little. When it happens you cannot say why it hap
pens and you merely
cover up your ignorance by calling it karma or Grace, or the Will of God.
Q: Krishnamurti says that Guru is not needed.
M: Somebody must tell you about the Supreme Reality and the way that leads to it
. Krishnamurti is
doing nothing else. In a way he is right -- most of the so-called disciples do n
ot trust their Gurus;
they disobey them and finally abandon them. For such disciples it would have bee
n infinitely better
if they had no Guru at all and just looked within for guidance. to find a living
Guru is a rare
opportunity and a great responsibility. One should not treat these matters light
ly. You people are out
to buy yourself the heaven and you imagine that the Guru will supply it for a pr
ice. You seek to
strike a bargain by offering little but asking much. You cheat nobody except you
rselves.
Q: You were told by your Guru that you are the Supreme and you trusted him and a
cted on it.
What gave you this trust?
M: Say, I was just reasonable. It would have been foolish to distrust him. What
interest could he
possibly have in misleading me?
Q: You told a questioner that we are the same, that we are equals. I cannot beli
eve it. Since I do
not believe it, of what use is your statement to me?
M: Your disbelief does not matter. My words are true and they will do their work
. This is the beauty
of noble company (satsang).
Q: Just sitting near you can it be considered spiritual practice?
M: Of course. The river of life is flowing. Some of its water is here, but so mu
ch of it has already
reached its goal. You know only the present. I see much further into the past an
d future, into what
you are and what you can be. I cannot but see you as myself. It is in the very n
ature of love to see
no difference.
Q: How can I come to see myself as you see me?
M: It is enough if you do not imagine yourself to be the body. It is the 'I-am-t
he-body' idea that is so
calamitous. It blinds you completely to your real nature. Even for a moment do n
ot think that you are
the body. Give yourself no name, no shape. In the darkness and the silence reali
ty is found.
Q: Must not I think with some conviction that I am not the body? Where am I to f
ind such
conviction?
M: Behave as if you were fully convinced and the confidence will come. What is t
he use of mere
words? A formula, a mental pattern will not help you. But unselfish action, free
from all concern with
the body and its interests will carry you into the very heart of Reality.
Q: Where am I to get the courage to act without conviction?
M: Love will give you the courage. When you meet somebody wholly admirable, love
-worthy,
sublime, your love and admiration will give you the urge to act nobly.
Q: Not everybody knows to admire the admirable. Most of the people are totally i
nsensitive.
M: Life will make them appreciate. The very weight of accumulated experience wil
l give them eyes
to see. When you meet a worthy man, you will love and trust him and follow his a
dvice. This is the
role of the realised people -- to set an example of perfection for others to adm
ire and love. Beauty of
life and character is a tremendous contribution to the common good.
Q: Must we not suffer to grow?
M: It is enough to know that there is suffering, that the world suffers. By them
selves neither
pleasure nor pain enlighten. Only understanding does. Once you have grasped the
truth that the
world is full of suffering, that to be born is a calamity, you will find the urg
e and the energy to go
beyond it. Pleasure puts you to sleep and pain wakes you up. If you do not want
to suffer, don't go
to sleep. You cannot know yourself through bliss alone, for bliss is your very n
ature. You must face
the opposite, what you are not, to find enlightenment.
65. A Quiet Mind is All You Need
Questioner: I am not well. I feel rather weak. What am I to do?
Maharaj: Who is unwell, you or the body?
Q: My body, of course.
M: Yesterday you felt well. What felt well?
Q: The body.
M: You were glad when the body was well and you are sad when the body is unwell.
Who is glad
one day and sad the next?
Q: The mind.
M: And who knows the variable mind?
Q: The mind.
M: The mind is the knower. Who knows the knower?
Q: Does not the knower know itself?
M: The mind is discontinuous. Again and again it blanks out, like in sleep or sw
oon, or distraction.
There must be something continuous to register discontinuity.
Q: The mind remembers. This stands for continuity.
M: Memory is always partial, unreliable and evanescent. It does not explain the
strong sense of
identity pervading consciousness, the sense 'I am'. Find out what is at the root
of it.
Q: However deeply I look, I find only the mind. Your words 'beyond the mind' giv
e me no clue.
M: While looking with the mind, you cannot go beyond it. To go beyond, you must
look away from
the mind and its contents.
Q: In what direction am I to look?
M: All directions are within the mind! I am not asking you to look in any partic
ular direction. Just
look away from all that happens in your mind and bring it to the feeling 'I am'.
The 'I am' is not a
direction. It is the negation of all direction. Ultimately even the 'I am' will
have to go, for you need not
keep on asserting what is obvious. Bringing the mind to the feeling 'I am' merel
y helps in turning the
mind away from everything else.
Q: Where does it all lead me?
M: When the mind is kept away from its preoccupations, it becomes quiet. If you
do not disturb this
quiet and stay in it, you find that it is permeated with a light and a love you
have never known; and
yet you recognise it at once as your own nature. Once you have passed through th
is experience,
you will never be the same man again; the unruly mind may break its peace and ob
literate its vision;
but it is bound to return, provided the effort is sustained; until the day when
all bonds are broken,
delusions and attachments end and life becomes supremely concentrated in the pre
sent.
Q: What difference does it make?
M: The mind is no more. There is only love in action.
Q: How shall I recognise this state when I reach it?
M: There will be no fear.
Q: Surrounded by a world full of mysteries and dangers, how can I remain unafrai
d?
M: Your own little body too is full of mysteries and dangers, yet you are not af
raid of it, for you take
it as your own. What you do not know is that the entire universe is your body an
d you need not be
afraid of it. You may say you have two bodies; the personal and the universal. T
he personal comes
and goes, the universal is always with you. The entire creation is your universa
l body. You are so
blinded by what is personal, that you do not see the universal. This blindness w
ill not end by itself --
it must be undone skilfully and deliberately. When all illusions are understood
and abandoned, you
reach the error-free and perfect state in which all distinctions between the per
sonal and the
universal are no more.
Q: I am a person and therefore limited in space and time. I occupy little space
and last but a few
moments; I cannot even conceive myself to be eternal and all-pervading.
M: Nevertheless you are. As you dive deep into yourself in search of your true n
ature, you will
discover that only your body is small and only your memory is short; while the v
ast ocean of life is
yours.
Q: The very words 'I' and 'universal' are contradictory. One excludes the other.
M: They don't. The sense of identity pervades the universal. Search and you shal
l discover the
Universal Person, who is yourself and infinitely more.
Anyhow, begin by realising that the world is in you, not you in the world.
Q: How can it be? I am only a part of the world. How can the whole world be cont
ained in the part,
except by reflection, mirror like?
M: What you say is true. Your personal body is a part in which the whole is wond
erfully reflected.
But you have also a universal body. You cannot even say that you do not know it,
because you see
and experience it all the time. Only you call it 'the world' and are afraid of i
t.
Q: I feel I know my little body, while the other I do not know, except through s
cience.
M: Your little body is full of mysteries and wonders which you do not know. Ther
e also science is
your only guide. Both anatomy and astronomy describe you.
Q: Even If I accept your doctrine of the universal body as a working theory, in
what way can I test
it and of what use is it to me?
M: Knowing yourself as the dweller in both the bodies you will disown nothing. A
ll the universe will
be your concern; every living thing you will love and help most tenderly and wis
ely. There will be no
clash of interests between you and others. All exploitation will cease absolutel
y. Your every action
will be beneficial, every movement will be a blessing.
Q: It is all very tempting, but how am I to proceed to realise my universal bein
g?
M: You have two ways: you can give your heart and mind to self-discovery, or you
accept my
words on trust and act accordingly. In other words, either you become totally se
lf-concerned, or
totally un-self-concerned. It is the word 'totally' that is important. You must
be extreme to reach the
Supreme.
Q: How can I aspire to such heights, small and limited as I am?
M: realise yourself as the ocean of consciousness in which all happens. This is
not difficult. A little
of attentiveness, of close observation of oneself, and you will see that no even
t is outside your
consciousness.
Q: The world is full of events which do not appear in my consciousness.
M: Even your body is full of events which do not appear in your consciousness. T
his does not
prevent you from claiming your body to be your own. You know the world exactly a
s you know your
body -- through your senses. It is your mind that has separated the world outsid
e your skin from the
world inside and put them in opposition. This created fear and hatred and all th
e miseries of living.
Q: What I do not follow is what you say about going beyond consciousness. I unde
rstand the
words, but I cannot visualise the experience. After all, you yourself have said
that all experience is
in consciousness.
M: You are right, there can be no experience beyond consciousness. Yet there is
the experience of
just being. There is a state beyond consciousness, which is not unconscious. Som
e call it super-
consciousness, or pure consciousness, or supreme consciousness. It is pure aware
ness free from
the subject object nexus.
Q: I have studied Theosophy and I find nothing familiar in what you say. I admit
Theosophy deals
with manifestation only. It describes the universe and its inhabitants in great
details. It admits many
levels of matter and corresponding levels of experience, but it does not seem to
go beyond. What
you say goes beyond all experience. If it is not experienceable, why at all talk
about it?
M: Consciousness is intermittent, full of gaps. Yet there is the continuity of i
dentity. What is this
sense of identity due to, if not to something beyond consciousness?
Q: If I am beyond the mind, how can I change myself?
M: Where is the need of changing anything? The mind is changing anyhow all the t
ime. Look at
your mind dispassionately; this is enough to calm it. When it is quiet, you can
go beyond it. Do not
keep it busy all the time. Stop it -- and just be. If you give it rest, it will
settle down and recover its
purity and strength. Constant thinking makes it decay.
Q: If my true being is always with me, how is it that I am ignorant of it?
M: Because it is very subtle and your mind is gross, full of gross thoughts and
feelings. Calm and
clarify your mind and you will know yourself as you are.
Q: Do I need the mind to know myself?
M: You are beyond the mind, but you know with your mind. It is obvious that the
extent, depth and
character of knowledge depend on what instrument you use. Improve your instrumen
t and your
knowledge will improve.
Q: To know perfectly I need a perfect mind.
M: A quiet mind is all you need. All else will happen rightly, once your mind is
quiet. As the sun on
rising makes the world active, so does self-awareness affect changes in the mind
. In the light of
calm and steady self-awareness inner energies wake up and work miracles without
any effort on
your part.
Q: You mean to say that the greatest work is done by not working?
M: Exactly. Do understand that you are destined for enlightenment. Co-operate wi
th your destiny,
don't go against it, don t thwart it. Allow it to fulfil itself. All you have to d
o is to give attention to the
obstacles created by the foolish mind.
66. All Search for Happiness is Misery
Questioner: I have come frown England and I am on my way to Madras. There I shal
l meet my
father and we shall go by car overland to London. I am to study psychology, but
I do not yet know
what I shall do when I get my degree. I may try industrial psychology, or psycho
therapy. My father is
a general physician, I may follow the same line.
But this does not exhaust my interests. There are certain questions which do not
change with time. I
understand you have some answers to such questions and this made me come to see
you.
Maharaj: I wonder whether I am the right man to answer your questions. I know li
ttle about things
and people. I know only that I am, and that much you also know. We are equals.
Q: Of course I know that I am. But I do not know what it means.
M: What you take to be the 'I' in the 'I am' is not you. To know that you are is
natural, to know what
you are is the result of much investigation. You will have to explore the entire
field of consciousness
and go beyond it. For this you must find the right teacher and create the condit
ions needed for
discovery. Generally speaking, there are two ways: external and internal. Either
you live with
somebody who knows the Truth and submit yourself entirely to his guiding and mou
lding influence,
or you seek the inner guide and follow the inner light wherever it takes you. In
both cases your
personal desires and fears must be disregarded. You learn either by proximity or
by investigation,
the passive or the active way. You either let yourself be carried by the river o
f life and love
represented by your Guru, or you make your own efforts, guided by your inner sta
r. In both cases
you must move on, you must be earnest. Rare are the people who are lucky to find
somebody
worthy of trust and love. Most of them must take the hard way, the way of intell
igence and
understanding, of discrimination and detachment (viveka-vairagya). This is the w
ay open to all.
Q: I am lucky to have come here: though I am leaving tomorrow, one talk with you
may affect my
entire life.
M: Yes, once you say 'I want to find Truth', all your life will be deeply affect
ed by it. All your mental
and physical habits, feelings and emotions, desires and fears, plans and decisio
ns will undergo a
most radical transformation.
Q: Once I have made up my mind to find The Reality, what do I do next?
M: It depends on your temperament. If you are earnest, whatever way you choose w
ill take you to
your goal. It is the earnestness that is the decisive factor.
Q: What is the source of earnestness?
M: It is the homing instinct, which makes the bird return to its nest and the fi
sh to the mountain
stream where it was born. The seed returns to the earth, when the fruit is ripe.
Ripeness is all.
Q: And what will ripen me? Do I need experience?
M: You already have all the experience you need, otherwise you would not have co
me here. You
need not gather any more, rather you must go beyond experience. Whatever effort
you make,
whatever method (sadhana) you follow, will merely generate more experience, but
will not take you
beyond. Nor will reading books help you. They will enrich your mind, but the per
son you are will
remain intact. If you expect any benefits from your search, material, mental or
spiritual, you have
missed the point. Truth gives no advantage. It gives you no higher status, no po
wer over others; all
you get is truth and the freedom from the false.
Q: Surely truth gives you the power to help others.
M: This is mere imagination, however noble! In truth you do not help others, bec
ause there are no
others. You divide people into noble and ignoble and you ask the noble to help t
he ignoble. You
separate, you evaluate, you judge and condemn -- in the name of truth you destro
y it. Your very
desire to formulate truth denies it, because it cannot be contained in words. Tr
uth can be expressed
only by the denial of the false -- in action. For this you must see the false as
false (viveka) and
reject it (vairagya). Renunciation of the false is liberating and energizing. It
lays open the road to
perfection.
Q: When do I know that I have discovered truth?
M: When the idea 'this is true', 'that is true' does not arise. Truth does not a
ssert itself, it is in the
seeing of the false as false and rejecting it. It is useless to search for truth
, when the mind is blind to
the false. It must be purged of the false completely before truth can dawn on It
.
Q: But what is false?
M: Surely, what has no being is false.
Q: What do you mean by having no being? The false is there, hard as a nail.
M: What contradicts itself, has no being. Or it has only momentary being, which
comes to the
same. For, what has a beginning and an end has no middle. It is hollow. It has o
nly the name and
shape given to it by the mind, but it has neither substance nor essence.
Q: If all that passes has no being, then the universe has no being either.
M: Who ever denies it? Of course the universe has no being.
Q: What has?
M: That which does not depend for its existence, which does not arise with the u
niverse arising, nor
set with the universe setting, which does not need any proof, but imparts realit
y to all it touches. It is
the nature of the false that it appears real for a moment. One could say that th
e true becomes the
father of the false. But the false is limited in time and space and is produced
by circumstances.
Q: How am I to get rid of the false and secure the real?
M: To what purpose?
Q: In order to live a better, a more satisfactory life, integrated and happy.
M: Whatever is conceived by the mind must be false, for it is bound to be relati
ve and limited. The
real is inconceivable and cannot be harnessed to a purpose. It must be wanted fo
r its own sake.
Q: How can I want the inconceivable?
M: What else is there worth wanting? Granted, the real cannot be wanted, as a th
ing is wanted. But
you can see the unreal as unreal and discard it. It is the discarding the false
that opens the way to
the true.
Q: I understand, but how does it look in actual daily life?
M: Self-interest and self-concern are the focal points of the false. Your daily
life vibrates between
desire and fear. Watch it intently and you will see how the mind assumes innumer
able names and
shapes, like a river foaming between the boulders. Trace every action to its sel
fish motive and look
at the motive intently till it dissolves.
Q: To live, one must look after oneself, one must earn money for oneself.
M: You need not earn for yourself, but you may have to -- for a woman and a chil
d. You may have
to keep on working for the sake of others. Even just to keep alive can be a sacr
ifice. There is no
need whatsoever to be selfish. Discard every self-seeking motive as soon as it i
s seen and you
need not search for truth; truth will find you.
Q: There is a minimum of needs.
M: Were they not supplied since you were conceived? Give up the bondage of self-
concern and be
what you are -- intelligence and love in action.
Q: But one must survive!
M: You can't help surviving! The real you is timeless and beyond birth and death
. And the body will
survive as long as it is needed. It is not important that it should live long. A
full life is better than a
long life.
Q: Who is to say what is a full life? It depends on my cultural background.
M: If you seek reality you must set yourself free of all backgrounds, of all cul
tures, of all patterns of
thinking and feeling. Even the idea of being man or woman, or even human, should
be discarded.
The ocean of life contains all, not only humans. So, first of all abandon all se
lf-identification, stop
thinking of yourself as such-and-such, so-and-so, this or that. Abandon all self
-concern, worry not
about your welfare, material or spiritual, abandon every desire, gross or subtle
, stop thinking of
achievement of any kind. You are complete here and now, you need absolutely noth
ing.
It does not mean that you must be brainless and foolhardy, improvident or indiff
erent; only the basic
anxiety for oneself must go. You need some food, clothing and shelter for you an
d yours, but this
will not create problems as long as greed is not taken for a need. Live in tune
with things as they
are and not as they are imagined.
Q: What am I if not human?
M: That which makes you think that you are a human is not human. It is but a dim
ensionless point
of consciousness, a conscious nothing; all you can say about yourself is: 'I am.
' You are pure being
-- awareness -- bliss. To realise that is the end of all seeking. You come to it
when you see all you
think yourself to be as mere imagination and stand aloof in pure awareness of th
e transient as
transient, imaginary as imaginary, unreal as unreal. It is not at all difficult,
but detachment is
needed. It is the clinging to the false that makes the true so difficult to see.
Once you understand
that the false needs time and what needs time is false, you are nearer the Reali
ty, which is timeless,
ever in the now. Eternity in time is mere repetitiveness, like the movement of a
clock. It flows from
the past into the future endlessly, an empty perpetuity. Reality is what makes t
he present so vital,
so different from the past and future, which are merely mental. If you need time
to achieve
something, it must be false. The real is always with you; you need not wait to b
e what you are. Only
you must not allow your mind to go out of yourself in search. When you want some
thing, ask
yourself: do I really need it? and if the answer is no, then just drop it.
Q: Must I not be happy? I may not need a thing, yet if it can make me happy, sho
uld I not grasp it?
M: Nothing can make you happier than you are. All search for happiness is misery
and leads to
more misery. The only happiness worth the name is the natural happiness of consc
ious being.
Q: Don't I need a lot of experience before I can reach such a high level of awar
eness?
M: Experience leaves only memories behind and adds to the burden which is heavy
enough. You
need no more experiences. The past ones are sufficient. And if you feel you need
more, look into
the hearts of people around you. You will find a variety of experiences which yo
u would not be able
to go through in a thousand years. Learn from the sorrows of others and save you
rself your own. It
is not experience that you need, but the freedom from all experience. Don't be g
reedy for
experience; you need none.
Q: Don't you pass through experiences yourself?
M: Things happen round me, but I take no part in them. An event becomes an exper
ience only
when I am emotionally involved. I am in a state which is complete, which seeks n
ot to improve on
itself. Of what use is experience to me?
Q: One needs knowledge, education.
M: To deal with things knowledge of things is needed. To deal with people, you n
eed insight,
sympathy. To deal with yourself you need nothing. Be what you are: conscious bei
ng and don't
stray away from yourself.
Q: University education is most useful.
M: No doubt, It helps you to earn a living. But it does not teach you how to liv
e. You are a student
of psychology. It may help you in certain situations. But can you live by psycho
logy? Life is worthy
of the name only when it reflects Reality in action. No university will teach yo
u how to live so that
when the time of dying comes, you can say: I lived well I do not need to live ag
ain. Most of us die
wishing we could live again. So many mistakes committed, so much left undone. Mo
st of the people
vegetate, but do not live. They merely gather experience and enrich their memory
. But experience
is the denial of Reality, which is neither sensory nor conceptual, neither of th
e body, nor of the mind,
though it includes and transcends both.
Q: But experience is most useful. By experience you learn not to touch a flame.
M: I have told you already that knowledge is most useful in dealing with things.
But it does not tell
you how to deal with people and yourself, how to live a life. We are not talking
. of driving a car, or
earning money. For this you need experience. But for being a light unto yourself
material knowledge
will not help you. You need something much more intimate and deeper than mediate
knowledge, to
be your self in the true sense of the word. Your outer life is unimportant. You
can become a night
watchman and live happily. It is what you are inwardly that matters. Your inner
peace and joy you
have to earn. It is much more difficult than earning money. No university can te
ach you to be
yourself. The only way to learn is by practice. Right away begin to be yourself.
Discard all you are
not and go ever deeper. Just as a man digging a well discards what is not water,
until he reaches
the water-bearing strata, so must you discard what is not your own, till nothing
is left which you can
disown. You will find that what is left is nothing which the mind can hook on to
. You are not even a
human being. You just are -- a point of awareness, co-extensive with time and sp
ace and beyond
both, the ultimate cause, itself uncaused. If you ask me: 'Who are you?' My answ
er would be:
'Nothing in particular. Yet, I am.'
Q: If you are nothing in particular, then you must be the universal.
M: What is to be universal -- not as a concept, but as a way of life? Not to sep
arate, not to oppose,
but to understand and love whatever contacts you, is living universally. To be a
ble to say truly: I am
the world., the world is me, I am at home in the world, the world is my own. Eve
ry existence is my
existence, every consciousness is my consciousness, every sorrow is my sorrow an
d every joy is
my joy -- this is universal life. Yet, my real being, and yours too, is beyond t
he universe and,
therefore, beyond the categories of the particular and the universal. It is what
it is, totally self-
contained and independent.
Q: I find it hard to understand.
M: You must give yourself time to brood over these things. The old grooves must
be erased in your
brain, without forming new ones. You must realise yourself as the immovable, beh
ind and beyond
the movable, the silent witness of all that happens.
Q: Does it mean that I must give up all idea of an active life?
M: Not at all. There will be marriage, there will be children, there will be ear
ning money to maintain
a family; all this will happen in the natural course of events, for destiny must
fulfil itself; you will go
through it without resistance, facing tasks as they come, attentive and thorough
, both in small things
and big. But the general attitude will be of affectionate detachment, enormous g
oodwill, without
expectation of return, constant giving without asking. In marriage you are neith
er the husband nor
the wife; you are the love between the two. You are the clarity and kindness tha
t makes everything
orderly and happy. It may seem vague to you, but if you think a little, you will
find that the mystical is
most practical, for it makes your life creatively happy. Your consciousness is r
aised to a higher
dimension, from which you see everything much clearer and with greater intensity
. You realise that
the person you became at birth and will cease to be at death is temporary and fa
lse. You are not
the sensual, emotional and intellectual person, gripped by desires and fears. Fi
nd out your real
being. What am l? is the fundamental question of all philosophy and psychology.
Go into it deeply.
67. Experience is not the Real Thing
Maharaj: The seeker is he who is in search of himself. Soon he discovers that hi
s own body he
cannot be. Once the conviction: 'I am not the body' becomes so well grounded tha
t he can no
longer feel, think and act for and on behalf of the body, he will easily discove
r that he is the
universal being, knowing, acting, that in him and through him the entire univers
e is real, conscious
and active. This is the heart of the problem. Either you are body-conscious and
a slave of
circumstances, or you are the universal consciousness itself -- and in full cont
rol of every event.
Yet consciousness, individual or universal, is not my true abode; I am not in it
, it is not mine, there is
no 'me' in it. I am beyond, though it is not easy to explain how one can be neit
her conscious, nor
unconscious, but just beyond. I cannot say that I am in God or I am God; God is
the universal light
and love, the universal witness: I am beyond the universal even.
Questioner: In that case you are without name and shape. What kind of being have
you?
M: I am what I am, neither with form nor formless, neither conscious nor unconsc
ious. I am outside
all these categories.
Q: You are taking the neti-neti (not this, not this) approach.
M: You cannot find me by mere denial. I am as well everything, as nothing. Nor b
oth, nor either.
These definitions apply to the Lord of the Universe, not to me.
Q: Do you intend to convey that you are just nothing.
M: Oh, no! I am complete and perfect. I am the beingness of being, the knowingne
ss of knowing,
the fullness of happiness. You cannot reduce me to emptiness!
Q: If you are beyond words, what shall we talk about? Metaphysically speaking, w
hat you say
holds together; there is no inner contradiction. But there is no food for me in
what you say. It is so
completely beyond my urgent needs. When I ask for bread, you are giving jewels.
They are
beautiful, no doubt, but I am hungry.
M: It is not so. I am offering you exactly what you need -- awakening. You are n
ot hungry and you
need no bread. You need cessation, relinquishing, disentanglement. What you beli
eve you need is
not what you need. Your real need I know, not you. You need to return to the sta
te in which I am --
your natural state. Anything else you may think of is an illusion and an obstacl
e. Believe me, you
need nothing except to be what you are. You imagine you will increase your value
by acquisition. It
is like gold imagining that an addition of copper will improve it. Elimination a
nd purification,
renunciation of all that is foreign to your nature is enough. All else is vanity
.
Q: It is easier said than done. A man comes to you with stomach-ache and you adv
ise him to
disgorge his stomach. Of course, without the mind there will be no problems. But
the mind is there
-- most tangibly.
M: It is the mind that tells you that the mind is there. Don't be deceived. All
the endless arguments
about the mind are produced by the mind itself, for its own protection, continua
tion and expansion. It
is the blank refusal to consider the convolutions and convulsions of the mind th
at can take you
beyond it.
Q: Sir, I am an humble seeker, while you are the Supreme Reality itself. Now the
seeker
approaches the Supreme in order to be enlightened. What does the Supreme do?
M: Listen to what I keep on telling you and do not move away from it. Think of i
t all the time and of
nothing else. Having reached that far, abandon all thoughts, not only of the wor
ld, but of yourself
also. Stay beyond all thoughts, in silent being-awareness. It is not progress, f
or what you come to is
already there in you, waiting for you.
Q: So you say I should try to stop thinking and stay steady in the idea: 'I am'.
M: Yes, and whatever thoughts come to you in connection with the 'I am', empty t
hem of all
meaning, pay them no attention.
Q: I happen to meet many young people coming from the West and I find that there
is a basic
difference when I compare them to the Indians. It looks as if their psyche (anta
hkarana) is different.
Concepts like Self, Reality, pure mind, universal consciousness the Indian mind
grasps easily. They
ring familiar, they taste sweet. The Western mind does not respond, or just reje
cts them. It
concretises and wants to utilise at once in the service of accepted values. Thes
e values are often
personal: health, well-being, prosperity; sometimes they are social -- a better
society, a happier life
for all; all are connected with worldly problems, personal or impersonal. Anothe
r difficulty one
comes across quite often in talking with the Westerners is that to them everythi
ng is experience --
as they want to experience food, drink and women, art and travels, so do they wa
nt to experience
Yoga, realisation and liberation. To them it is just another experience, to be h
ad for a price. They
imagine such experience can be purchased and they bargain about the cost. When o
ne Guru
quotes too high, in terms of time and effort, they go to another, who offers ins
talment terms,
apparently very easy, but beset with unfulfillable conditions. It is the old sto
ry of not thinking of the
grey monkey when taking the medicine! In this case it is not thinking of the wor
ld, 'abandoning all
self-hood', 'extinguishing every desire', 'becoming perfect celibates' etc. Natu
rally there is vast
cheating going on all levels and the results are nil. Some Gurus in sheer desper
ation abandon all
discipline, prescribe no conditions, advise effortlessness, naturalness, simply
living in passive
awareness, without any pattern of 'must' and 'must not' And there are many disci
ples whose past
experiences brought them to dislike themselves so badly that they just do not wa
nt to look at
themselves. If they are not disgusted, they are bored. They have surfeit of self
-knowledge, they
want something else.
M: Let them not think of themselves, if they do not like it. Let them stay with
a Guru, watch him,
think of him. Soon they will experience a kind of bliss, quite new, never experi
enced before, except,
maybe, in childhood. The experience is so unmistakably new, that it will attract
their attention and
create interest; once the interest is roused, orderly application will follow.
Q: These people are very critical and suspicious. They cannot be otherwise, havi
ng passed
through much learning and much disappointment. On one hand they want experience,
on the other
they mistrust it. How to reach them, God alone knows!
M: True insight and love will reach them.
Q: When they have some spiritual experience, another difficulty arises. They com
plain that the
experience does not last, that it comes and goes in a haphazard way. Having got
hold of the
lollipop, they want to suck it all the time.
M: Experience, however sublime, is not the real thing. By its very nature it com
es and goes. Self-
realisation is not an acquisition. It is more of the nature of understanding. On
ce arrived at, it cannot
be lost. On the other hand, consciousness is changeful, flowing, undergoing tran
sformation from
moment to moment. Do not hold on to consciousness and its contents. Consciousnes
s held,
ceases. To try to perpetuate a flash of insight, or a burst of happiness is dest
ructive of what it wants
to preserve. What comes must go. The permanent is beyond all comings and goings.
Go to the root
of all experience, to the sense of being. Beyond being and not-being lies the im
mensity of the real.
Try and try again.
Q: To try one needs faith.
M: There must be the desire first. When the desire is strong, the willingness to
try will come. You
do not need assurance of success, when the desire is strong. You are ready to ga
mble.
Q: Strong desire, strong faith -- it comes to the same. These people do not trus
t either their
parents or the society, or even themselves. All they touched turned to ashes. Gi
ve them one
experience absolutely genuine, indubitable, beyond the argumentations of the min
d and they will
follow you to the world's end.
M: But I am doing nothing else! Tirelessly I draw their attention to the one inc
ontrovertible factor --
that of being. Being needs no proofs -- it proves all else. If only they go deep
ly into the fact of being
and discover the vastness and the glory to which the 'I am' is the door, and cro
ss the door and go
beyond, their life will be full of happiness and light. Believe me, the effort n
eeded is as nothing when
compared with the discoveries arrived at.
Q: What you say is right. But these people have neither confidence nor patience.
Even a short
effort tires them. It is really pathetic to see them groping blindly and yet una
ble to hold on to the
helping hand. They are such nice people fundamentally but totally bewildered. I
tell them: you
cannot have truth on your own terms. You must accept the conditions. To this the
y answer: Some
will accept the conditions and some will not. Acceptance or non-acceptance are s
uperficial and
accidental; reality is in all; there must be a way for all to tread -- with no c
onditions attached.
M: There is such a way, open to all, on every level, in every walk of life. Ever
ybody is aware of
himself. The deepening and broadening of self-awareness is the royal way. Call i
t mindfulness, or
witnessing, or just attention -- it is for all. None is unripe for it and none c
an fail.
But, of course, your must not be merely alert. Your mindfulness must include the
mind also.
Witnessing is primarily awareness of consciousness and its movements.
68. Seek the Source of Consciousness
Questioner: We were talking the other day about the ways of the modern Western m
ind and the
difficulty it finds in submitting to the moral and intellectual discipline of th
e Vedanta. One of the
obstacles lies in the young European's or American's preoccupation with the disa
strous condition of
the world and the urgent need of setting it right.
They have no patience with people like you who preach personal improvement as a
pre-condition
for the betterment of the world. They say it is neither possible nor necessary.
Humanity is ready for
a change of systems -- social, economic, political. A world-government, world-po
lice, world-planning
and the abolition of all physical and ideological barriers: this is enough, no p
ersonal transformation
is needed. No doubt, people shape society, but society shapes people too. In a h
umane society
people will be humane; besides, science provides the answer to many questions wh
ich formerly
were in the domain of religion.
Maharaj: No doubt, striving for the improvement of the world is a most praisewor
thy occupation.
Done selflessly, it clarifies the mind and purifies the heart. But soon man will
realise that he pursues
a mirage. Local and temporary improvement is always possible and was achieved ag
ain and again
under the influence of a great king or teacher; but it would soon come to an end
, leaving humanity
in a new cycle of misery. It is in the nature of all manifestation that the good
and the bad follow each
other and in equal measure. The true refuge is only in the unmanifested.
Q: Are you not advising escape?
M: On the contrary. The only way to renewal lies through destruction. You must m
elt down the old
jewellery into formless gold before you can mould a new one. Only the people who
have gone
beyond the world can change the world. It never happened otherwise. The few whos
e impact was
long lasting were all knowers of reality. Reach their level and then only talk o
f helping the world.
Q: It is not the rivers and mountains that we want to help, but the people
M: There is nothing wrong with the world, but for the people who make it bad. Go
and ask them to
behave.
Q: Desire and fear make them behave as they do.
M: Exactly. As long as human behaviour is dominated by desire and fear, there is
not much hope.
And to know how to approach the people effectively, you must yourself be free of
all desire and fear.
Q: Certain basic desires and fears are inevitable, such as are connected with fo
od, sex and death.
M: These are needs and, as needs, they are easy to meet.
Q: Even death is a need?
M: Having lived a long and fruitful life you feel the need to die. Only when wro
ngly applied, desire
and fear are destructive. By all means desire the right and fear the wrong. But
when people desire
what is wrong and fear what is right, they create chaos and despair.
Q: What is right and what is wrong?
M: Relatively, what causes suffering is wrong, what alleviates it is right. Abso
lutely, what brings you
back to reality is right and what dims reality is wrong.
Q: When we talk of helping humanity, we mean a struggle against disorder and suf
fering.
M: You merely talk of helping. Have you ever helped, really helped, a single man
? Have you ever
put one soul beyond the need of further help? Can you give a man character, base
d on full
realisation of his duties and opportunities at least, if not on the insight into
his true being? When you
do not know what is good for yourself, how can you know what is good for others?
Q: The adequate supply of means of livelihood is good for all. You may be God hi
mself, but you
need a well-fed body to talk to us.
M: It is you that need my body to talk to you. I am not my body, nor do I need i
t. I am the witness
only. I have no shape of my own. You are so accustomed to think of yourselves as
bodies having
consciousness that you just cannot imagine consciousness as having bodies. Once
you realise that
bodily existence is but a state of mind, a movement in consciousness, that the o
cean of
consciousness is infinite and eternal, and that, when in touch with consciousnes
s, you are the
witness only, you will be able to withdraw beyond consciousness altogether.
Q: We are told there are many levels of existences. Do you exit and function on
all the levels?
While you are on earth, are you also in heaven (swarga)?
M: ! am nowhere to be found! I am not a thing to be given a place among other th
ings. All things
are in me, but I am not among things. You are telling me about the superstructur
e while I am
concerned with the foundations. The superstructures rise and fall, but the found
ations last. I am not
interested in the transient, while you talk of nothing else.
Q: Forgive me a strange question. If somebody with a razor sharp sword would sud
denly severe
your head, what difference would it make to you?
M: None whatsoever. The body will lose its head, certain lines of communication
will be cut, that is
all. Two people talk to each other on the phone and the wire is cut. Nothing hap
pens to the people,
only they must look for some other means of communication. The Bhagavad Gita say
s: "the sword
does not cut it". It is literally so. It is in the nature of consciousness to su
rvive its vehicles. It is like
fire. It burns up the fuel, but not itself. Just like a fire can outlast a mount
ain of fuel, so does
consciousness survive innumerable bodies.
Q: The fuel affects the flame.
M: As long as it lasts. Change the nature of the fuel and the colour and appeara
nce of the flame
will change.
Now we are talking to each other. For this presence is needed; unless we are pre
sent, we cannot
talk. But presence by itself is not enough. There must also he the desire to tal
k.
Above all, we want to remain conscious. We shall bear every suffering and humili
ation, but we shall
rather remain conscious. Unless we revolt against this craving for experience an
d let go the
manifested altogether, there can be no relief. We shall remain trapped.
Q: You say you are the silent witness and also you are beyond consciousness. Is
there no
contradiction in it? If you are beyond consciousness, what are you witnessing to
?
M: I am conscious and unconscious, both conscious and unconscious, neither consc
ious nor
unconscious -- to all this I am witness -- but really there is no witness, becau
se there is nothing to
be a witness to. I am perfectly empty of all mental formations, void of mind --
yet fully aware. This I
try to express my saying that I am beyond the mind.
Q: How can I reach you then?
M: Be aware of being conscious and seek the source of consciousness. That is all
. Very little can
be conveyed in words. It is the doing as I tell you that will bring light, not m
y telling you. The means
do not matter much; it is the desire, the urge, the earnestness that count.
69. Transiency is Proof of Unreality
Questioner: My friend is a German and I was born in England from French parents.
I am in India
since over a year wandering from Ashram to Ashram.
Maharaj: Any spiritual practices (sadhanas)?
Q: Studies and meditation.
M: What did you meditate on?
Q: On what I read.
M: Good.
Q: What are you doing, sir?
M: Sitting.
Q: And what else?
M: Talking.
Q: What are you talking about?
M: Do you want a lecture? Better ask something that really touches you, so that
you feel strongly
about it. Unless you are emotionally involved, you may argue with me, but there
will be no real
understanding between us. If you say: 'nothing worries me, I have no problems',
it is all right with
me, we can keep quiet. But if something really touches you, then there is purpos
e in talking.
Shall I ask you? What is the purpose of your moving from place to place?
Q: To meet people, to try to understand them.
M: What people are you trying to understand? What exactly are you after?
Q: Integration.
M: If you want integration, you must know whom you want to integrate.
Q: By meeting people and watching them, one comes to know oneself also. It goes
together.
M: It does not necessarily go together.
Q: One improves the other.
M: It does not work that way. The mirror reflects the image, but the image does
not improve the
mirror. You are neither the mirror nor the image in the mirror. Having perfected
the mirror so that it
reflects correctly, truly, you can turn the mirror round and see in it a true re
flection of yourself -- true
as far as the mirror can reflect. But the reflection is not yourself -- you are
the seer of the reflection.
Do understand it clearly -- whatever you may perceive you are not what you perce
ive.
Q: I am the mirror and the world is the image?
M: You can see both the image and the mirror. You are neither. Who are you? Don'
t go by
formulas. The answer is not in words. The nearest you can say in words is: I am
what makes
perception possible, the life beyond the experiencer and his experience.
Now, Can you separate yourself both from the mirror and the image in the mirror
and stand
completely alone, all by yourself?
Q: No, I cannot.
M: How do you know that you cannot? There are so many things you are doing witho
ut knowing
how to do it. You digest, you circulate your blood and lymph, you move your musc
les -- all without
knowing how. In the same way, you perceive, you feel, you think without knowing
the why and how
of it. Similarly you are yourself without knowing it. There is nothing wrong wit
h you as the Self. It is
what it is to perfection. It is the mirror that is not clear and true and, there
fore, gives you false
images. You need not correct yourself -- only set right your idea of yourself. L
earn to separate
yourself from the image and the mirror, keep on remembering: I am neither the mi
nd nor its ideas:
do it patiently and with convictions and you will surely come to the direct visi
on of yourself as the
source of being -- knowing -- loving, eternal, all-embracing all-pervading. You
are the infinite
focussed in a body. Now you see the body only. Try earnestly and you will come t
o see the infinite
only.
Q: The experience of reality, when it Comes, does it last?
M: All experience is necessarily transient. But the ground of all experience is
immovable. Nothing
that may be called an event will last. But some events purify the mind and some
stain it. Moments of
deep insight and all-embracing love purify the mind, while desires and fears, en
vies and anger,
blind beliefs and intellectual arrogance pollute and dull the psyche.
Q: Is self-realisation so important?
M: Without it you will be consumed by desires and fears, repeating themselves me
aninglessly in
endless suffering. Most of the people do not know that there can be an end to pa
in. But once they
have heard the good news, obviously going beyond all strife and struggle is the
most urgent task
that can be. You know that you can be free and now it is up to you. Either you r
emain forever
hungry and thirsty, longing, searching, grabbing, holding, ever losing and sorro
wing, or go out
whole-heartedly in search of the state of timeless perfection to which nothing c
an be added, from
which nothing -- taken away. In it all desires and fears are absent, not because
they were given up,
but because they have lost their meaning.
Q: So far I have been following you. Now, what am I expected to do?
M: There is nothing to do. Just be. Do nothing. Be. No climbing mountains and si
tting in caves. I do
not even say: 'be yourself', since you do not know yourself. Just be. Having see
n that you are
neither the 'outer' world of perceivables, nor the 'inner' world of thinkables,
that you are neither body
nor mind -- just be.
Q: Surely, there are degrees of realisation.
M: There are no steps to self-realisation. There is nothing gradual about it. It
happens suddenly
and is irreversible. You rotate into a new dimension, seen from which the previo
us ones are mere
abstractions. Just like on sunrise you see things as they are, so on self-realis
ation you see
everything as it is. The world of illusions is left behind.
Q: In the state of realisation do things change? They become colourful and full
of meaning?
M: The experience is quite right, but it is not the experience of reality (sadan
ubhav), but of harmony
(satvanubhav) of the universe.
Q: Nevertheless, there is progress.
M: There can be progress only in the preparation (sadhana). realisation is sudde
n. The fruit ripens
slowly, but falls suddenly and without return.
Q: I am physically and mentally at peace. What more do I need?
M: Yours may not be the ultimate state. You will recognise that you have returne
d to your natural
state by a complete absence of all desire and fear. After all, at the root of al
l desire and fear is the
feeling of not being what you are. Just as a dislocated joint pains only as long
as it is out of shape,
and is forgotten as soon as it is set right, so is all self-concern a symptom of
mental distortion which
disappears as soon as one is in the normal state.
Q: Yes, but what is the sadhana for achieving the natural state?
M: Hold on to the sense 'I am' to the exclusion of everything else. When thus th
e mind becomes
completely silent, it shines with a new light and vibrates with new knowledge. I
t all comes
spontaneously, you need only hold on to the 'I am'. Just like emerging from slee
p or a state of
rapture you feel rested and yet you cannot explain why and how you come to feel
so well, in the
same way on realisation you feel complete, fulfilled, free from the pleasure-pai
n complex, and yet
not always able to explain what happened, why and how. You can put it only in ne
gative terms:
'Nothing is wrong with me any longer.' It is only by comparison with the past th
at you know that you
are out of it. Otherwise -- you are just yourself. Don't try to convey it to oth
ers. If you can, it is not
the real thing. Be silent and watch it expressing itself in action.
Q: If you could tell me what I shall become, it may help me to watch over my dev
elopment.
M: How can anybody tell you what you shall become when there is no becoming? You
merely
discover what you are. All moulding oneself to a pattern is a grievous waste of
time. Think neither of
the past nor of the future, just be.
Q: How can I just be? Changes are inevitable.
M: Changes are inevitable in the changeful, but you are not subject to them. You
are the
changeless background, against which changes are perceived.
Q: Everything changes, the background also changes. There is no need of a change
less
background to notice changes. The self is momentary -- it is merely the point wh
ere the past meets
the future.
M: Of course the self based on memory is momentary. But such self demands unbrok
en continuity
behind it. You know from experience that there are gaps when your self is forgot
ten. What brings it
back to life? What wakes you up in the morning? There must be some constant fact
or bridging the
gaps in consciousness. If you watch carefully you will find that even your daily
consciousness is in
flashes, with gaps intervening all the time. What is in the gaps? What can there
be but your real
being, that is timeless; mind and mindlessness are one to it.
Q: Is there any particular place you would advise me to go to for spiritual atta
inment?
M: The only proper place is within. The outer world neither can help nor hinder.
No system, no
pattern of action will take you to your goal. Give up all working for a future,
concentrate totally on
the now, be concerned only with your response to every movement of life as it ha
ppens.
Q: What is the cause of the urge to roam about?
M: There is no cause. You merely dream that you roam about. In a few years your
stay in India will
appear as a dream to you. You will dream some other dream at that time. Do reali
se that it is not
you who moves from dream to dream, but the dreams flow before you and you are th
e immutable
witness. No happening affects your real being -- this is the absolute truth.
Q: Cannot I move about physically and keep steady inwardly?
M: You can, but what purpose does it serve? If you are earnest, you will find th
at in the end you will
get fed up with roaming and regret the waste of energy and time. To find your se
lf you need not
take a single step.
Q: Is there any difference between the experience of the Self (atman) and of the
Absolute
(brahman)?
M: There can be no experience of the Absolute as it is beyond all experience. On
the other hand,
the self is the experiencing factor in every experience and thus, in a way, vali
dates the multiplicity of
experiences. The world may be full of things of great value, but if there is nob
ody to buy them, they
have no price. The Absolute contains everything experienceable, but without the
experience they
are as nothing. That which makes the experience possible is the Absolute. That w
hich makes it
actual is the Self.
Q: Don't we reach the Absolute through a gradation of experiences? Beginning wit
h the grossest,
we end with the most sublime.
M: There can be no experience without desire for it. There can be gradation betw
een desires, but
between the most sublime desire and the freedom from all desire there is an abys
s which must be
crossed. The unreal may look real, but it is transient. The real is not afraid o
f time.
Q: Is not the unreal the expression of the real?
M: How can it be? It is like saying that truth expresses itself in dreams. To th
e real the unreal is not.
It appears to be real only because you believe in it. Doubt it, and it ceases. W
hen you are in love
with somebody, you give it reality -- you imagine your love to be all-powerful a
nd everlasting. When
it comes to an end, you say: 'I thought it was real, but it wasn't'. Transiency
is the best proof of
unreality. What is limited in time and space, and applicable to one person only,
is not real. The real
is for all and forever.
Above everything else you cherish yourself. You would accept nothing in exchange
for your
existence. The desire to be is the strongest of all desires and will go only on
the realisation of your
true nature.
Q: Even in the unreal there is a touch of reality.
M: Yes, the reality you impart to it by taking it to be real. Having convinced y
ourself, you are bound
by your conviction. When the sun shines, colours appear. When it sets, they disa
ppear. Where are
the colours without the light?
Q: This is thinking in terms of duality.
M: All thinking is in duality. In identity no thought survives.
70. God is the End of All Desire and Knowledge
Maharaj: Where are you coming from? What have you come for?
Questioner: I come from America and my friend is from the Republic of Ireland. I
came about six
months ago and I was travelling from Ashram to Ashram. My friend came on his own
.
M: What have you seen?
Q: I have been at Sri Ramanashram and also I have visited Rishikesh. Can I ask y
ou what is your
opinion of Sri Ramana Maharshi?
M: We are both in the same ancient state. But what do you know of Maharshi? You
take yourself to
be a name and a body, so all you perceive are names and bodies.
Q: Were you to meet the Maharshi, what would happen?
M: Probably we would feel quite happy. We may even exchange a few words.
Q: But would he recognise you as a liberated man?
M: Of course. As a man recognises a man, so a jnani recognises a jnani. You cann
ot appreciate
what you have not experienced. You are what you think yourself to be, but you ca
nnot think yourself
to be what you have not experienced.
Q: To become an engineer I must learn engineering. To become God, what must I le
arn?
M: You must unlearn everything. God is the end of all desire and knowledge.
Q: You mean to say that I become God merely by giving up the desire to become Go
d?
M: All desires must be given up, because by desiring you take the shape of your
desires. When no
desires remain, you revert to your natural state.
Q: How do I come to know that I have achieved perfection?
M: You can not know perfection, you can know only imperfection. For knowledge to
be, there must
be separation and disharmony. You can know what you are not, but you can not kno
w your real
being. You can be only what you are. The entire approach is through understandin
g, which is in the
seeing of the false as false. But to understand, you must observe from outside.
Q: The Vedantic concept of Maya, illusion, applies to the manifested. Therefore
our knowledge of
the manifested is unreliable. But we should be able to trust our knowledge of th
e unmanifested.
M: There can be no knowledge of the unmanifested. The potential is unknowable. O
nly the actual
can be known.
Q: Why should the knower remain unknown?
M: The knower knows the known. Do you know the knower? Who is the knower of the
knower?
You want to know the unmanifested. Can you say you know the manifested?
Q: I know things and ideas and their relations. It is the sum total of all my ex
periences.
M: All?
Q: Well, all actual experiences. I admit I cannot know what did not happen.
M: If the manifested is the sum total of all actual experiences, including their
experiencers, how
much of the total do you know? A very small part indeed. And what is the little
you know?
Q: Some sensory experiences as related to myself.
M: Not even that. You only know that you react. Who reacts and to what, you do n
ot know. You
know on contact that you exist -- 'I am'. The 'I am this', 'I am that' are imagi
nary.
Q: I know the manifested because I participate in it. I admit, my part in it is
very small, yet it is as
real as the totality of it. And what is more important, I give it meaning. Witho
ut me the world is dark
and silent.
M: A firefly illumining the world! You don't give meaning to the world, you find
it. Dive deep into
yourself and find the source from where all meaning flows. Surely it is not the
superficial mind that
can give meaning.
Q: What makes me limited and superficial?
M: The total is open and available, but you will not take it. You are attached t
o the little person you
think yourself to be. Your desires are narrow, your ambitions -- petty. After al
l, without a centre of
perception where would be the manifested? Unperceived, the manifested is as good
as the
unmanifested. And you are the perceiving point, the non-dimensional source of al
l dimensions.
Know yourself as the total.
Q: How can a point contain a universe?
M: There is enough space in a point for an infinity of universes. There is no la
ck of capacity. Self-
limitation is the only problem. But you cannot run away from yourself. However f
ar you go, you
come back to yourself and to the need of understanding this point, which is as n
othing and yet the
source of everything.
Q: I came to India in search of a Yoga teacher. I am still in search.
M: What kind of Yoga do you want to practice, the Yoga of getting, or the Yoga o
f giving up?
Q: Don't they come to the same in the end?
M: How can they? One enslaves, the other liberates. The motive matters supremely
. Freedom
comes through renunciation. All possession is bondage.
Q: What I have the strength and the courage to hold on to, why should I give up?
And if I have not
the strength, how can I give up? I do not understand this need of giving up. Whe
n I want something,
why should I not pursue it? Renunciation is for the weak.
M: If you do not have the wisdom and the strength to give up, just look at your
possessions. Your
mere looking will burn them up. If you can stand outside your mind, you will soo
n find that total
renunciation of possessions and desires is the most obviously reasonable thing t
o do. You create
the world and then worry about it. Becoming selfish makes you weak. If you think
you have the
strength and courage to desire, it is because you are young and inexperienced. I
nvariably the object
of desire destroys the means of acquiring it and then itself withers away. It is
all for the best,
because it teaches you to shun desire like poison.
Q: How am I to practice desirelessness?
M: No need of practice. No need of any acts of renunciation. Just turn your mind
away, that is all.
Desire is merely the fixation of the mind on an idea. Get it out of its groove b
y denying it attention.
Q: That is all?
M: Yes, that is all. Whatever may be the desire or fear, don't dwell upon it. Tr
y and see for yourself.
Here and there you may forget, it does not matter. Go back to your attempts till
the brushing away
of every desire and fear, of every reaction becomes automatic.
Q: How can one live without emotions?
M: You can have all the emotions you want, but beware of reactions, of induced e
motions. Be
entirely self-determined and ruled from within, not from without. Merely giving
up a thing to secure a
better one is not true relinquishment. Give it up because you see its valuelessn
ess. As you keep on
giving up, you will find that you grow spontaneously in intelligence and power a
nd inexhaustible love
and joy.
Q: Why so much insistence on relinquishing all desires and fears? Are they not n
atural?
M: They are not. They are entirely mind-made. You have to give up everything to
know that you
need nothing, not even your body. Your needs are unreal and your efforts are mea
ningless. You
imagine that your possessions protect you. In reality they make you vulnerable.
realise yourself as
away from all that can be pointed at as 'this' or 'that'. You are unreachable by
any sensory
experience or verbal construction. Turn away from them. Refuse to impersonate.
Q: After I have heard you, what am I to do?
M: Only hearing will not help you much. You must keep it in mind and ponder over
it and try to
understand the state of mind which makes me say what I say. I speak from truth;
stretch your hand
and take it. You are not what you think yourself to be, I assure you. The image
you have of yourself
is made up from memories and is purely accidental.
Q: What I am is the result of my karma.
M: What you appear to be, you are not. Karma is only a word you have learnt to r
epeat. You have
never been, nor shall ever be a person. Refuse to consider yourself as one. But
as long as you do
not even doubt yourself to be a Mr. S0-and-so, there is little hope. When you re
fuse to open your
eyes, what can you be shown?
Q: I imagine karma to be a mysterious power that urges me towards perfection.
M: That's what people told you. You are already perfect, here and now. The perfe
ctible is not you.
You imagine yourself to be what you are not -- stop it. It is the cessation that
is important, not what
you are going to stop.
Q: Did not karma compel me to become what I am?
M: Nothing compels. You are as you believe yourself to be. Stop believing.
Q: Here you are sitting on your seat and talking to me. What compels you is your
karma.
M: Nothing compels me. I do what needs doing. But you do so many unnecessary thi
ngs. It is your
refusal to examine that creates karma. It is the indifference to your own suffer
ing that perpetuates it.
Q: Yes, it is true. What can put an end to this indifference?
M: The urge must come from within as a wave of detachment, or compassion.
Q: Could I meet this urge half way?
M: Of course. See your own condition, see the condition of the world.
Q: We were told about karma and reincarnation, evolution and Yoga, masters and d
isciples. What
are we to do with all this knowledge?
M: Leave it all behind you. Forget it. Go forth, unburdened with ideas and belie
fs. Abandon all
verbal structures, all relative truth, all tangible objectives. The Absolute can
be reached by absolute
devotion only. Don't be half-hearted.
Q: I must begin with some absolute truth. Is there any?
M: Yes, there is, the feeling: 'I am'. Begin with that.
Q: Nothing else is true?
M: All else is neither true nor false. It seems real when it appears, it disappe
ars when it is denied. A
transient thing is a mystery.
Q: I thought the real is the mystery.
M: How can it be? The real is simple, open, clear and kind, beautiful and joyous
. It is completely
free of contradictions. It is ever new, ever fresh, endlessly creative. Being an
d non-being, life and
death, all distinctions merge in it.
Q: I can admit that all is false. But, does it make my mind nonexistent?
M: The mind is what it thinks. To make it true, think true.
Q: If the shape of things is mere appearance, what are they in reality?
M: In reality there is only perception. The perceiver and the perceived are conc
eptual, the fact of
perceiving is actual.
Q: Where does the Absolute come in?
M: The Absolute is the birthplace of Perceiving. It makes perception possible.
But too much analysis leads you nowhere. There is in you the core of being which
is beyond
analysis, beyond the mind. You can know it in action only. Express it in daily l
ife and its light will
grow ever brighter.
The legitimate function of the mind is to tell you what is not. But if you want
positive knowledge, you
must go beyond the mind.
Q: In all the universe is there one single thing of value?
M: Yes, the power of love.
71. In Self-awareness you Learn about Yourself
Questioner: It is our repeated experience that the disciples do much harm to the
ir Gurus. They
make plans and carry them out, without considering the Guru's wishes. In the end
there is only
endless worry for the Guru and bitterness for his disciples.
Maharaj: Yes, it does happen.
Q: Who compels the Guru to submit to these indignities?
M: The Guru is basically without desire. He sees what happens, but feels no urge
to interfere. He
makes no choices, takes no decisions. As pure witness, he watches what is going
on and remains
unaffected.
Q: But his work suffers.
M: Victory is always his -- in the end. He knows that if the disciples do not le
arn from his words,
they will learn from their own mistakes. Inwardly he remains quiet and silent. H
e has no sense of
being a separate person. The entire universe is his own, including his disciples
with their petty
plans. Nothing in particular affects him, or, which comes to the same, the entir
e universe affects him
in equal measure.
Q: Is there no such thing as the Guru's grace?
M: His grace is constant and universal. It is not given to one and denied to ano
ther.
Q: How does it affect me personally?
M: It is by The Guru's grace that your mind is engaged in search for truth and i
t is by his grace that
you will find it. It works unwaringly towards your ultimate good. And it is for
all.
Q: Some disciples are ready, mature, and some are not. Must not the Guru exercis
e choice and
make decisions?
M: The Guru knows the Ultimate and relentlessly propels the disciple towards it.
The disciple is full
of obstacles, which he himself must overcome. The Guru is not very much concerne
d with the
superficialities of the disciple's life. It is like gravitation The fruit must f
all -- when no longer held
back.
Q: If the disciple does not know the goal, how can he make out the obstacles?
M: The goal is shown by the Guru, obstacles are discovered by the disciple. The
Guru has no
preferences, but those who have obstacles to overcome seem to be lagging behind.
In reality the disciple is not different from the Guru. He is the same dimension
less centre of
perception and love in action. It is only his imagination and self-identificatio
n with the imagined, that
encloses him and converts him into a person. The Guru is concerned little with t
he person. His
attention is on the inner watcher. It is the task of the watcher to understand a
nd thereby eliminate
the person. While there is grace on one side, there must be dedication to the ta
sk on the other.
Q: But the person does not want to be eliminated.
M: The person is merely the result of a misunderstanding. In reality, there is n
o such thing.
Feelings, thoughts and actions race before the watcher in endless succession, le
aving traces in the
brain and creating an illusion of continuity. A reflection of the watcher in the
mind creates the sense
of 'I' and the person acquires an apparently independent existence. In reality t
here is no person,
only the watcher identifying himself with the 'I' and the 'mine'. The teacher te
lls the watcher: you are
not this, there is nothing of yours in this, except the little point of 'I am',
which is the bridge between
the watcher and his dream. I am this, I am that' is dream, while pure 'I am' has
the stamp of reality
on it. You have tasted so many things -- all came to naught. Only the sense 'I a
m' persisted --
unchanged. Stay with the changeless among the changeful, until you are able to g
o beyond.
Q: When will it happen?
M: It will happen as soon as you remove the obstacles.
Q: Which obstacles?
M: Desire for the false and fear of the true. You, as the person, imagine that t
he Guru is interested
in you as a person. Not at all. To him you are a nuisance and a hindrance to be
done away with. He
actually aims at your elimination as a factor in consciousness.
Q: If I am eliminated, what will remain?
M: Nothing will remain, all will remain. The sense of identity will remain, but
no longer identification
with a particular body. Being -- awareness -- love will shine in full splendour.
Liberation is never of
the person, it is always from the person.
Q: And no trace remains of the person?
M: A vague memory remains, like the memory of a dream, or early childhood. After
all, what is
there to remember? A flow of events, mostly accidental and meaningless. A sequen
ce of desires
and fears and inane blunders. Is there anything worth remembering? The person is
but a shell
imprisoning you. Break the shell.
Q: Whom are you asking to break the shell? Who is to break the shell?
M: Break the bonds of memory and self-identification and the shell will break by
itself. There is a
centre that imparts reality to whatever it perceives. All you need is to underst
and that you are the
source of reality, that you give reality instead of getting it, that you need no
support and no
confirmation. Things are as they are, because you accept them as they are. Stop
accepting them
and they will dissolve. Whatever you think about with desire or fear appears bef
ore you as real.
Look at it without desire or fear and it does lose substance. Pleasure and pain
are momentary. It is
simpler and easier to disregard them than to act on them.
Q: If all things come to an end, why did they appear at all?
M: Creation is in the very nature of consciousness. Consciousness causes appeara
nces. Reality is
beyond consciousness.
Q: While we are conscious of appearances, how is it that we are not conscious th
at these are
mere appearances?
M: The mind covers up reality, without knowing it. To know the nature of the min
d, you need
intelligence, the capacity to look at the mind in silent and dispassionate aware
ness.
Q: If I am of the nature of all-pervading consciousness, how could ignorance and
illusion happen
to me?
M: Neither ignorance nor illusion ever happened to you. Find the self to which y
ou ascribe
ignorance and illusion and your question will be answered. You talk as if you kn
ow the self and see
it to be under the sway of ignorance and illusion. But, in fact, you do not know
the self, nor are you
aware of ignorance. By all means become aware -- this will bring you to the self
and you will realise
that there is neither ignorance nor delusion in it. It is like saying: if there
is sun, how can darkness
be? As under a stone there will be darkness, however strong the sunlight, so in
the shadow of the 'I-
am-the-body' consciousness there must be ignorance and illusion.
Q: But why did the body consciousness come into being?
M: Don't ask 'why', ask 'how'. It is in the nature of creative imagination to id
entify itself with its
creations. You can stop it any moment by switching off attention. Or through inv
estigation.
Q: Does creation come before investigation?
M: First you create a world, then the 'I am' becomes a person, who is not happy
for various
reasons. He goes out in search of happiness, meets a Guru who tells him: 'You ar
e not a person,
find who you are'. He does it and goes beyond.
Q: Why did he not do it at the very start?
M: It did not occur to him. He needed somebody to tell him.
Q: Was that enough?
M: It was enough.
Q: Why does it not work in my case?
M: You do not trust me.
Q: Why is my faith weak?
M: Desires and fears have dulled your mind. It needs some scrubbing.
Q: How can I clear my mind?
M: By watching it relentlessly. Inattention obscures, attention clarifies.
Q: Why do the Indian teachers advocate inactivity?
M: Most of people's activities are valueless, if not outright destructive. Domin
ated by desire and
fear, they can do nothing good. Ceasing to do evil precedes beginning to do good
. Hence the need
for stopping all activities for a time, to investigate one's urges and their mot
ives, see all that is false
in one's life, purge the mind of all evil and then only restart work, beginning
with one's obvious
duties. Of course, if you have a chance to help somebody, by all means do it and
promptly too, don't
keep him waiting till you are perfect. But do not become a professional do-goode
r.
Q: I do not feel there are too many do-gooders among disciples. Most of those I
met are too
absorbed in their own petty conflicts. They have no heart for others.
M: Such self-centeredness is temporary. Be patient with such people. For so many
years they gave
attention to everything but themselves. Let them turn to themselves for a change
.
Q: What are the fruits of self-awareness?
M: You grow more intelligent. In awareness you learn. In self-awareness you lear
n about yourself.
Of course, you can only learn what you are not. To know what you are, you must g
o beyond the
mind.
Q: Is not awareness beyond the mind?
M: Awareness is the point at which the mind reaches out beyond itself into reali
ty. In awareness
you seek not what pleases, but what is true.
Q: I find that awareness brings about a state of inner silence, a state of psych
ic void.
M: It is all right as it goes, but it is not enough. Have you felt the all-embra
cing emptiness in which
the universe swims like a cloud in the blue sky?
Q: Sir, let me first come to know well my own inner space.
M: Destroy the wall that separates, the 'I-am-the-body' idea and the inner and t
he outer will
become one.
Q: Am I to die?
M: Physical destruction is meaningless. It is the clinging to sensate life that
binds you. If you could
experience the inner void fully, the explosion into the totality would be near.
Q: My own spiritual experience has its seasons. Sometimes I feel glorious, then
again I am down. I
am like a little boy -- going up, going down, going up, going down.
M: All changes in consciousness are due to the 'I-am-the-body' idea. Divested of
this idea the mind
becomes steady. There is pure being, free of experiencing anything in particular
. But to realise it
you must do what your teacher tells you. Mere listening, even memorizing, is not
enough. If you do
not struggle hard to apply every word of it in your daily life, don't complain t
hat you made no
progress. All real progress is irreversible. Ups and downs merely show that the
teaching has not
been taken to heart and translated into action fully.
Q: The other day you told us that there is no such thing as karma. Yet we see th
at every thing has
a cause and the sum total of all the causes may be called karma.
M: As long as you believe yourself to be a body, you will ascribe causes to ever
ything. I do not say
things have no causes. Each thing has innumerable causes. It is as it is, becaus
e the world is as it
is. Every cause in its ramifications covers the universe.
When you realise that you are absolutely free to be what you consent to be, that
you are what you
appear to be because of ignorance or indifference, you are free to revolt and ch
ange. You allow
yourself to be what you are not. You are looking for the causes of being what yo
u are not! It is a
futile search. There are no causes, but your ignorance of your real being, which
is perfect and
beyond all causation. For whatever happens, all the universe is responsible and
you are the source
of the universe.
Q: I know nothing about being the cause of the universe.
M: Because you do not investigate. Enquire, search within and you will know.
Q: How can a speck like me create the vast universe?
M: When you are infected with the 'I-am-the-body' virus; a whole universe spring
s into being. But
when you have had enough of it, you cherish some fanciful ideas about liberation
 and pursue lines
of action totally futile. You concentrate, you meditate, you torture your mind a
nd body, you do all
sorts of unnecessary things, but you miss the essential which is the elimination
of the person.
Q: In the beginning we may have to pray and meditate for some time before we are
ready for self-
enquiry.
M: If you believe so, go on. To me, all delay is a waste of time. You can skip a
ll the preparation and
go directly for the ultimate search within. Of all the Yogas it is the simplest
and the shortest.
72. What is Pure, Unalloyed, Unattached is Real
Maharaj: You are back in India! Where have you been, what have you seen?
Questioner: I come from Switzerland. I stayed there with a remarkable man who cl
aims to have
realised. He has done many Yogas in his past and had many experiences that passe
d away. Now
he claims no special abilities, nor knowledge; the only unusual thing about him
is connected with
sensations; he is unable to separate the seer from the seen. For instance, when
he sees a car
rushing at him, he does not know whether the car is rushing at him, or he at a c
ar. He seems to be
both at the same time, the seer and the seen. They become one. Whatever he sees,
he sees
himself. When I asked him some Vedantic questions he said: 'I really cannot answ
er. I do not know.
All I know is this strange identity with whatever I perceive. You know, I expect
ed anything but this.'
He is on the whole a humble man; he makes no disciples and in no way puts himsel
f on a pedestal.
He is willing to talk about his strange condition, but that is all.
M: Now he knows what he knows. All else is over. At least he still talks. Soon h
e may cease talking.
Q: What will he do then?
M: Immobility and silence are not inactive. The flower fills the space with perf
ume, the candle --
with light. They do nothing yet they change everything by their mere presence. Y
ou can photograph
the candle, but not its light. You can know the man, his name and appearance, bu
t not his influence.
His very presence is action.
Q: Is it not natural to be active?
M: Everybody wants to be active, but where do his actions originate? There is no
central point each
action begets another, meaninglessly and painfully, in endless succession. The a
lternation of work
and pause is not there. First find the immutable centre where all movement takes
birth. Just like a
wheel turns round an axle, so must you be always at the axle in the centre and n
ot whirling at the
periphery.
Q: How do I go about it in practice?
M: Whenever a thought or emotion of desire or fear comes to your mind, just turn
away from it.
Q: By suppressing my thoughts and feelings I shall provoke a reaction.
M: I am not talking of suppression. Just refuse attention.
Q: Must I not use effort to arrest the movements of the mind?
M: It has nothing to do with effort. Just turn away, look between the thoughts,
rather than at the
thoughts. When you happen to walk in a crowd, you do not fight every man you mee
t -- you just find
your way between.
Q: If I use my will to control the mind, it only strengthens the ego.
M: Of course. When you fight, you invite a fight. But when you do not resist, yo
u meet with no
resistance. When you refuse to play the game, you are out of it.
Q: How long will it take me to get free of the mind?
M: It may take a thousand years, but really no time is required. All you need is
to be in dead
earnest. Here the will is the deed. If you are sincere, you have it. After all,
it is a matter of attitude.
Nothing stops you from being a jnani here and now, except fear. You are afraid o
f being impersonal,
of impersonal being. It is all quite simple. Turn away from your desires and fea
rs and from the
thoughts they create and you are at once in your natural state.
Q: No question of reconditioning, changing, or eliminating the mind?
M: Absolutely none. Leave your mind alone, that is all. Don't go along with it.
After all, there is no
such thing as mind apart from thoughts which come and go obeying their own laws,
not yours. They
dominate you only because you are interested in them. It is exactly as Christ sa
id 'Resist not evil'.
By resisting evil you merely strengthen it.
Q: Yes, I see now. All I have to do is to deny existence to evil. Then it fades
away. But does it not
boil down to some kind of auto-suggestion?
M: The auto-suggestion is in full swing now, when you think yourself to be a per
son, caught
between good and evil. What I am asking you to do is to put an end to it, to wak
e up and see things
as they are.
About your stay in Switzerland with that strange friend of yours: what did you g
ain in his company?
Q: Nothing absolutely. His experience did not affect me at all. One thing I have
understood: there
is nothing to search for. Wherever I may go, nothing waits for me at the end of
the journey.
Discovery is not the result of transportation.
M: Yes, you are quite apart from anything that can be gained or lost.
Q: Do you call it vairagya, relinquishment, renunciation?
M: There is nothing to renounce. Enough if you stop acquiring. To give you must
have, and to have
you must take. Better don't take. It is simpler than to practice renunciation, w
hich leads to a
dangerous form of 'spiritual' pride.
All this weighing, selecting, choosing, exchanging -- it is all shopping in some
'spiritual' market.
What is your business there? What deal are you out to strike? When you are not o
ut for business,
what is the use of this endless anxiety of choice? Restlessness takes you nowher
e. Something
prevents you from seeing that there is nothing you need. Find it out and see its
falseness. It is like
having swallowed some poison and suffering from unquenchable craving for water.
Instead of
drinking beyond all measure, why not eliminate the poison and be free of this bu
rning thirst?
Q: I shall have to eliminate the ego!
M: The sense 'I am a person in time and space' is the poison. In a way, time its
elf is the poison. In
time all things come to an end and new are born, to be devoured in their turn. D
o not identify
yourself with time, do not ask anxiously: 'what next, what next?' Step out of ti
me and see it devour
the world. Say: 'Well, it is in the nature of time to put an end to everything.
Let it be. It does not
concern me. I am not combustible, nor do I need to collect fuel'.
Q: Can the witness be without the things to witness?
M: There is always something to witness. If not a thing, then its absence. Witne
ssing is natural and
no problem. The problem is excessive interest, leading to self-identification. W
hatever you are
engrossed in you take to be real.
Q: Is the 'I am' real or unreal? Is the 'I am' the witness? Is the witness real
or unreal?
M: What is pure, unalloyed, unattached, is real. What is tainted, mixed up, depe
ndent and transient
is unreal. Do not be misled by words -- one word may convey several and even con
tradictory
meanings. The 'I am that pursues the pleasant and shuns the unpleasant is false;
the 'I am' that
sees pleasure and pain as inseparable sees rightly. The witness that is enmeshed
in what he
perceives is the person; the witness who stands aloof, unmoved and untouched, is
the watch-tower
of the real, the point at which awareness, inherent in the unmanifested, contact
s the manifested.
There can be no universe without the witness, there can be no witness without th
e universe.
Q: Time consumes the world. Who is the witness of time?
M: He who is beyond time -- the Un-nameable. A glowing ember, moved round and ro
und quickly
enough, appears as a glowing circle. When the movement ceases, the ember remains
. Similarly,
the 'I am' in movement creates the world. The 'I am' at peace becomes the Absolu
te. You are like a
man with an electric torch walking through a gallery. You can see only what is w
ithin the beam. The
rest is in darkness.
Q: If I project the world, I should be able to change it.
M: Of course, you can. But you must cease identifying yourself with it and go be
yond. Then you
have the power to destroy and re-create.
Q: All I want is to be free.
M: You must know two things: What are you to be free from and what keeps you bou
nd.
Q: Why do you want to annihilate the universe?
M: I am not concerned with the universe. Let it be or not be. It is enough if I
know myself.
Q: If you are beyond the world, then you are of no use to the world.
M: Pity the self that is, not the world that is not! Engrossed in a dream you ha
ve forgotten your true
self.
Q: Without the world there is no place for love.
M: Quite so. All these attributes; being, consciousness, love and beauty are ref
lections of the real
in the world. No real -- no reflection.
Q: The world is full of desirable things and people. How can I imagine it non-ex
istent?
M: Leave the desirable to those who desire. Change the current of your desire fr
om taking to
giving. The passion for giving, for sharing, will naturally wash the idea of an
external world out of
your mind, and of giving as well. Only the pure radiance of love will remain, be
yond giving and
receiving.
Q: In love there must be duality, the lover and the beloved.
M: In love there is not the one even, how can there be two? Love is the refusal
to separate, to
make distinctions. Before you can think of unity, you must first create duality.
When you truly love,
you do not say: 'I love you'; where there is mentation, there is duality.
Q: What is it that brings me again and again to India? It cannot be only the com
parative
cheapness of life here? Nor the colourfulness and variety of impressions. There
must be some
more important factor.
M: There is also the spiritual aspect. The division between the outer and the in
ner is less in India. It
is easier here to express the inner in the outer. Integration is easier. Society
is not so oppressive.
Q: Yes, in the West it is all tamas and rajas. In India there is more of sattva,
of harmony and
balance.
M: Can't you go beyond the gunas? Why choose the sattva? Be what you are, wherev
er you are
and worry not about gunas.
Q: I have not the strength.
M: It merely shows that you have gained little in India. What you truly have you
cannot lose. Were
you well-grounded in your self, change of place would not affect it.
Q: In India spiritual life is easy. It is not so in the West. One has to conform
to environment to a
much greater extent.
M: Why don't you create your own environment? The world has only as much power o
ver you as
you give it. Rebel. Go beyond duality, make no difference between east and west.
Q: What can one do when one finds oneself in a very unspiritual environment?
M: Do nothing. Be yourself. Stay out. Look beyond.
Q: There may be clashes at home. Parents rarely understand.
M: When you know your true being, you have no problems. You may please your pare
nts or not,
marry or not, make a lot of money or not; it is all the same to you. Just act ac
cording to
circumstances, yet in close touch with the facts, with the reality in every situ
ation.
Q: Is it not a very high state?
M: Oh no, it is the normal state. You call it high because you are afraid of it.
First be free from fear.
See that there is nothing to be afraid of. Fearlessness is the door to the Supre
me.
Q: No amount of effort can make me fearless.
M: Fearlessness comes by itself, when you see that there is nothing to be afraid
of. When you walk
in a crowded street, you just bypass people. Some you see, some you just glance
at, but you do not
stop. It is the stopping that creates the bottleneck. Keep moving! Disregard nam
es and shapes,
don't be attached to them; your attachment is your bondage.
Q: What should I do when a man slaps me on my face?
M: You will react according to your character, inborn or acquired.
Q: Is it inevitable? Am I, is the world, condemned to remain as we are?
M: A jeweller who wants to refashion an ornament, first melts it town to shapele
ss gold. Similarly,
one must return to one's original state before a new name and form can emerge. D
eath is essential
for renewal.
Q: You are always stressing the need of going beyond, of aloofness, of solitude.
You hardly ever
use the words 'right' and 'wrong'. Why is it so?
M: It is right to be oneself, it is wrong not to be. All else is conditional. Yo
u are eager to separate
right from wrong, because you need some basis for action. You are always after d
oing something or
other. But, personally motivated action, based on some scale of values, aiming a
t some result is
worse than inaction, for its fruits are always bitter.
Q: Are awareness and love one and the same?
M: Of course. Awareness is dynamic, love is being. Awareness is love in action.
By itself the mind
can actualise any number of possibilities, but unless they are prompted by love,
they are valueless.
Love precedes creation. Without it there is only chaos.
Q: Where is the action in awareness?
M: You are so incurably operational! Unless there is movement, restlessness, tur
moil, you do not
call it action. Chaos is movement for movement's sake. True action does not disp
lace; it transforms.
A change of place is mere transportation; a change of heart is action. Just reme
mber, nothing
perceivable is real. Activity is not action. Action is hidden, unknown, unknowab
le. You can only
know the fruit.
Q: Is not God the all-doer?
M: Why do you bring in an outer doer? The world recreates itself out of itself.
It is an endless
process, the transitory begetting the transitory. It is your ego that makes you
think that there must
be a doer. You create a God to your own Image, however dismal the image. Through
the film of
your mind you project a world and also a God to give it cause and purpose. It is
all imagination --
step out of it.
Q: How difficult it is to see the world as purely mental! The tangible reality o
f it seems so very
convincing.
M: This is the mystery of imagination, that it seems to be so real. You may be c
elibate or married, a
monk or a family man; that is not the point. Are you a slave of your imagination
, or are you not?
Whatever decision you take, whatever work you do, it will be invariably based on
imagination, on
assumptions parading as facts.
Q: Here I am sitting in front of you. What part of it is imagination?
M: The whole of it. Even space and time are imagined.
Q: Does it mean that I don't exist?
M: I too do not exist. All existence is imaginary.
Q: Is being too imaginary?
M: Pure being, filling all and beyond all, is not existence which is limited. Al
l limitation is imaginary,
only the unlimited is real.
Q: When you look at me, what do you see?
M: I see you imagining yourself to be.
Q: There are many like me. Yet each is different.
M: The totality of all projections is what is called maha-maya, the Great Illusi
on.
Q: But when you look at yourself, what do you see?
M: It depends how I look. When I look through the mind, I see numberless people.
When I look
beyond the mind, I see the witness. Beyond the witness there is the infinite int
ensity of emptiness
and silence.
Q: How to deal with people?
M: Why make plans and what for? Such questions show anxiety. Relationship is a l
iving thing. Be
at peace with your inner self and you will be at peace with everybody.
realise that you are not the master of what happens, you cannot control the futu
re except in purely
technical matters. Human relationship cannot be planned, it is too rich and vari
ed. Just be
understanding and compassionate, free of all self seeking.
Q: Surely, I am not the master of what happens. Its slave rather.
M: Be neither master, nor slave. Stand aloof.
Q: Does it imply avoidance of action?
M: You cannot avoid action. It happens, like everything else.
Q: My actions, surely, I can control.
M: Try. You will soon see that you do what you must.
Q: I can act according to my will.
M: You know your will only after you have acted.
Q: I remember my desires, the choices made, the decisions taken and act accordin
gly.
M: Then your memory decides, not you.
Q: Where do I come in?
M: You make it possible by giving it attention.
Q: Is there no such thing as free will? Am I not free to desire?
M: Oh no, you are compelled to desire. In Hinduism the very idea of free will is
non-existent, so
there is no word for it. Will is commitment, fixation, bondage.
Q: I am free to choose my limitations.
M: You must be free first. To be free in the world you must be free of the world
. Otherwise your
past decides for you and your future. Between what had happened and what must ha
ppen you are
caught. Call it destiny or karma, but never -- freedom. First return to your tru
e being and then act
from the heart of love.
Q: Within the manifested what is the stamp of the unmanifested?
M: There is none. The moment you begin to look for the stamp of the unmanifested
, the manifested
dissolves. If you try to understand the unmanifested with the mind, you at once
go beyond the mind,
like when you stir the fire with a wooden stick, you burn the stick. Use the min
d to investigate the
manifested. Be like the chick that pecks at the shell. Speculating about life ou
tside the shell would
have been of little use to it, but pecking at the shell breaks the shell from wi
thin and liberates the
chick. Similarly, break the mind from within by investigation and exposure of it
s contradictions and
absurdities.
Q: The longing to break the shell, where does it come from?
M: From the unmanifested.
73. Death of the Mind is Birth of Wisdom
Questioner: Before one can realise one's true nature need not one be a person? D
oes not the ego
have its value?
Maharaj: The person is of little use. It is deeply involved in its own affairs a
nd is completely ignorant
of its true being. Unless the witnessing consciousness begins to play on the per
son and it becomes
the object of observation rather than the subject, realisation is not feasible.
It is the witness that
makes realisation desirable and attainable.
Q: There comes a point in a person's life when it becomes the witness.
M: Oh, no. The person by itself will not become the witness. It is like expectin
g a cold candle to
start burning in the course of time. The person can stay in the darkness of igno
rance forever, unless
the flame of awareness touches it.
Q: Who lights the candle?
M: The Guru. His words, his presence. In India it is very often the mantra. Once
 the candle is
lighted, the flame will consume the candle.
Q: Why is the mantra so effective?
M: Constant repetition of the mantra is something the person does not do for one
's own sake. The
beneficiary is not the person. Just like the candle which does not increase by b
urning.
Q: Can the person become aware of itself by itself?
M: Yes, it happens sometimes as a result of much suffering The Guru wants to sav
e you the
endless pain. Such is his grace. Even when there is no discoverable outer Guru,
there is always the
sadguru, the inner Guru, who directs and helps from within. The words 'outer' an
d 'inner' are relative
to the body only; in reality all is one, the outer being merely a projection of
the inner. Awareness
comes as if from a higher dimension.
Q: Before the spark is lit and after, what is the difference?
M: Before the spark is lit there is no witness to perceive the difference. The p
erson may be
conscious, but is not aware of being conscious. It is completely identified with
what it thinks and
feels and experiences. The darkness that is in it is of its own creation. When t
he darkness is
questioned, it dissolves. The desire to question is planted by the Guru. In othe
r words, the
difference between the person and the witness is as between not knowing and know
ing oneself.
The world seen in consciousness is to be of the nature of consciousness, when th
ere is harmony
(sattva); but when activity and passivity (rajas and tamas) appear, they obscure
and distort and you
see the false as real.
Q: What can the person do to prepare itself for the coming of the Guru.
M: The very desire to be ready means that the Guru had come and the flame is lig
hted. It may be a
stray word, or a page in a book; the Guru's grace works mysteriously.
Q: Is there no such thing as self-preparation? We hear so much about yoga sadhan
a?
M: It is not the person that is doing sadhana. The person is in unrest and resis
tance to the very
end. It is the witness that works on the person, on the totality of its illusion
s, past, present and future.
Q: How can we know that what you say is true? While it is self contained and fre
e from inner
contradictions, how can we know that it is not a product of fertile imagination,
nurtured and enriched
by constant repetition?
M: The proof of the truth lies in its effect on the listener.
Q: Words can have a most powerful effect. By hearing, or repeating words, one ca
n experience
various kinds of trances. The listener's experiences may be induced and cannot b
e considered as a
proof.
M: The effect need not necessarily be an experience. It can be a change in chara
cter, in
motivation, in relationship to people and one's self. Trances and visions induce
d by words, or drugs,
or any other sensory or mental means are temporary and inconclusive. The truth o
f what is said
here is immovable and everlasting. And the proof of it is in the listener, in th
e deep and permanent
changes in his entire being. It is not something he can doubt, unless he doubts
his own existence,
which is unthinkable. When my experience becomes your own experience also, what
better proof
do you want?
Q: The experiencer is the proof of his experience.
M: Quite, but the experiencer needs no proof. 'I am, and I know I am'. You canno
t ask for further
proofs.
Q: Can there be true knowledge of things?
M: Relatively -- yes. Absolutely -- there are no things. To know that nothing is
is true knowledge.
Q: What is the link between the relative and the absolute?
M: They are identical.
Q: From which point of view are they identical?
M: When the words are spoken, there is silence. When the relative is over, the a
bsolute remains.
The silence before the words were spoken, is it different from the silence that
comes after? The
silence is one and without it the words could not have been heard. It is always
there -- at the back of
the words. Shift your attention from words to silence and you will hear it. The
mind craves for
experience, the memory of which it takes for knowledge. The jnani is beyond all
experience and his
memory is empty of the past. He is entirely unrelated to anything in particular.
But the mind craves
for formulations and definitions, always eager to squeeze reality into a verbal
shape. Of everything it
wants an idea, for without ideas the mind is not. Reality is essentially alone,
but the mind will not
leave it alone -- and deals instead with the unreal. And yet it is all the mind
can do -- discover the
unreal as unreal.
Q: And seeing the real as real?
M: There is no such state as seeing the real. Who is to see what? You can only b
e the real -- which
you are, anyhow. The problem is only mental. Abandon false ideas, that is all. T
here is no need of
true ideas. There aren't any.
Q: Why then are we encouraged to seek the real?
M: The mind must have a purpose. To encourage it to free itself from the unreal
it is promised
something in return. In reality, there is no need of purpose. Being free from th
e false is good in
itself, it wants no reward. It is just like being clean -- which is its own rewa
rd.
Q: Is not self-knowledge the reward?
M: The reward of self-knowledge is freedom from the personal self. You cannot kn
ow the knower,
for you are the knower. The fact of knowing proves the knower. You need no other
proof. The
knower of the known is not knowable. Just like the light is known in colours onl
y, so is the knower
known in knowledge.
Q: Is the knower an inference only?
M: You know your body, mind and feelings. Are you an inference only?
Q: I am an inference to others. but not to myself.
M: So am I. An inference to you, but not to myself. I know myself by being mysel
f. As you know
yourself to be a man by being one. You do not keep on reminding yourself that yo
u are a man. It is
only when your humanity is questioned that you assert it. Similarly, I know that
I am all. I do not
need to keep on repeating: 'I am all, I am all'. Only when you take me to be a p
articular, a person, I
protest. As you are a man all the time, so I am what I am -- all the time. Whate
ver you are
changelessly, that you are beyond all doubt.
Q: When I ask how do you know that you are a jnani, you answer: 'I find no desir
e in me. Is this
not a proof?'
M: Were I full of desires, I would have still been what I am.
Q: Myself, full of desires and you, full of desires; what difference would there
be?
M: You identify yourself with your desires and become their slave. To me desires
are things among
other things, mere clouds in the mental sky, and I do not feel compelled to act
on them.
Q: The knower and his knowledge, are they one or two?
M: They are both. The knower is the unmanifested, the known is the manifested. T
he known is
always on the move, it changes, it has no shape of its own, no dwelling place. T
he knower is the
immutable support of all knowledge; Each needs the other, but reality lies beyon
d. The jnani cannot
be known, because there is nobody to be known. When there is a person, you can t
ell something
about it, but when there is no self-identification with the particular, what can
be said? You may tell a
jnani anything; his question will always be: 'about whom are you talking? There
is no such person'.
Just as you cannot say anything about the universe because it includes everythin
g, so nothing can
be said about a jnani, for he is all and yet nothing in particular. You need a h
ook to hang your
picture on; when there is no hook, on what will the picture hang? To locate a th
ing you need space,
to place an event you need time; but the timeless and spaceless defies all handl
ing. It makes
everything perceivable, yet itself it is beyond perception. The mind cannot know
 what is beyond the
mind, but the mind is known by what is beyond it. The jnani knows neither birth
nor death; existence
and non-existence are the same to him.
Q: When your body dies, you remain.
M: Nothing dies. The body is just imagined. There is no such thing.
Q: Before another century will pass, you will be dead to all around you. Your bo
dy will be covered
with flowers, then burnt and the ashes scattered. That will be our experience. W
hat will be yours?
M: Time will come to an end. This is called the Great Death (mahamrityu), the de
ath of time.
Q: Does it mean that the universe and its contents will come to an end?
M: The universe is your personal experience. How can it be affected? You might h
ave been
delivering a lecture for two hours; where has it gone when it is over? It has me
rged into silence in
which the beginning, middle and end of the lecture are all together. Time has co
me to a stop, it was,
but is no more. The silence after a life of talking and the silence after a life
of silence is the same
silence. Immortality is freedom from the feeling: 'I am'. Yet it is not extincti
on. On the contrary, it is a
state infinitely more real, aware and happy than you can possibly think of. Only
self-consciousness
is no more.
Q: Why does the Great Death of the mind coincide with the 'small death' of the b
ody?
M: It does not! You may die a hundred deaths without a break in the mental turmo
il. Or, you may
keep your body and die only in the mind. The death of the mind is the birth of w
isdom.
Q: The person goes and only the witness remains.
M: Who remains to say: 'I am the witness'. When there is no 'I am', where is the
witness? In the
timeless state there is no self to take refuge in.
The man who carries a parcel is anxious not to lose it -- he is parcel-conscious
. The man who
cherishes the feeling 'I am' is self-conscious. The jnani holds on to nothing an
d cannot be said to be
conscious. And yet he is not unconscious. He is the very heart of awareness. We
call him
digambara clothed in space, the Naked One, beyond all appearance. There is no na
me and shape
under which he may be said to exist, yet he is the only one that truly is.
Q: I cannot grasp it.
M: Who can? The mind has its limits. It is enough to bring you to the very front
iers of knowledge
and make you face the immensity of the unknown. To dive in it is up to you.
Q: What about the witness? Is it real or unreal?
M: It is both. The last remnant of illusion, the first touch of the real. To say
: I am only the witness is
both false and true: false because of the 'I am', true because of the witness. I
t is better to say: 'there
is witnessing'. The moment you say: 'I am', the entire universe comes into being
 along with its
creator.
Q: Another question: can we visualise the person and the self as two brothers sm
all and big? The
little brother is mischievous and selfish, rude and restless, while the big brot
her is intelligent and
kind, reasonable and considerate, free from body consciousness with its desires
and fears. The big
brother knows the little one. but the small one is ignorant of the big one and t
hinks itself to be
entirely on its own. The Guru comes and tells the smaller one: 'You are not alon
e, you come from a
very good family, your brother is a very remarkable man, wise and kind, and he l
oves you very
much. Remember him, think of him, find him, serve him, and you will become one w
ith him'. Now,
the question is are there two in us, the personal and the individual, the false
self and the true self, or
is it only a simile?
M: It is both. They appear to be two, but on investigation they are found to be
one. Duality lasts
only as long as it is not questioned. The trinity: mind, self and spirit (vyakti
, vyakta, avyakta), when
looked into, becomes unity. These are only modes of experiencing: of attachment,
of detachment,
of transcendence.
Q: Your assumption that we are in a dream state makes your position unassailable
. Whatever
objection we raise, you just deny its validity. One cannot discuss with you!
M: The desire to discuss is also mere desire. The desire to know, to have the po
wer, even the
desire to exist are desires only. Everybody desires to be, to survive, to contin
ue, for no one is sure
of himself. But everybody is immortal. You make yourself mortal by taking yourse
lf to be the body.
Q: Since you have found your freedom, will you not give me a little of it?
M: Why little? Take the whole. Take it, it is there for the taking. But you are
afraid of freedom!
Q: Swami Ramdas had to deal with a similar request. Some devotees collected roun
d him one day
and began to ask for liberation. Ramdas listened smilingly and then suddenly he
became serious
and said: You can have it, here and now, freedom absolute and permanent. Who wan
ts it, come
forward. Nobody moved. Thrice he repeated the offer. None accepted. Then he said
: 'The offer is
withdrawn'.
M: Attachment destroys courage. The giver is always ready to give. The taker is
absent. Freedom
means letting go. People just do not care to let go everything. They do not know
that the finite is the
price of the infinite, as death is the price of immortality. Spiritual maturity
lies in the readiness to let
go everything. The giving up is the first step. But the real giving up is in rea
lising that there is
nothing to give up, for nothing is your own. It is like deep sleep -- you do not
give up your bed when
you fall sleep -- you just forget it.
74. Truth is Here and Now
Questioner: My question is: What is the proof of truth? Followers of every relig
ion, metaphysical or
political, philosophical or ethical, are convinced that theirs is the only truth
, that all else is false and
they take their own unshakable conviction for the proof of truth. 'I am convince
d, so it must be true',
they say. It seems to me, that no philosophy or religion, no doctrine or ideolog
y, however complete,
free from inner contradictions and emotionally appealing, can be the proof of it
s own truth. They are
like clothes men put on, which vary with times and circumstances and follow the
fashion trends.
Now, can there be a religion or philosophy which is true and which does not depe
nd on somebody's
conviction? Nor on scriptures, because they again depend on somebody's faith in
them? Is there a
truth which does not depend on trusting, which is not subjective?
Maharaj: What about science?
Q: Science is circular, it ends where it starts, with the senses. It deals with
experience, and
experience is subjective. No two persons can have the same experience, though th
ey may express
it in the same words.
M: You must look for truth beyond the mind.
Q: Sir, I have had enough of trances. Any drug can induce them cheaply and quick
ly. Even the
classical samadhis, caused by breathing or mental exercises, are not much differ
ent. There are
oxygen samadhis and carbon dioxide samadhis and self induced samadhis, caused by
repetition of
a formula or a chain of thoughts. Monotony is soporific. I cannot accept samadhi
, however glorious,
as a proof of truth.
M: Samadhi is beyond experience. It is a qualityless state.
Q: The absence of experience is due to inattention. It reappears with attention.
Closing one's eyes
does not disprove light. Attributing reality to negative states will not take us
far. The very negation
contains an affirmation.
M: In a way you are right. But don't you see, you are asking for the proof of tr
uth, without explaining
what is the truth you have in mind and what proof will satisfy you? You can prov
e anything, provided
you trust your proof. But what will prove that your proof is true? I can easily
drive you into an
admission that you know only that you exist -- that you are the only proof you c
an have of anything.
But I do not identify mere existence with reality. Existence is momentary, alway
s in time and space,
while reality is changeless and all-pervading.
Q: Sir, I do not know what is truth and what can prove it. Do not throw me on my
own resources. I
have none. Here you are the truth-knower, not me.
M: You refuse testimony as the proof of truth: the experience of others is of no
use to you, you
reject all inference from the concurring statements of a vast number of independ
ent witnesses; so it
is for you to tell me what is the proof that will satisfy you, what is your test
of a valid proof?
Q: Honestly, I do not know what makes a proof.
M: Not even your own experience?
Q: Neither my experience, nor even existence. They depend on my being conscious.
M: And your being conscious depends on what?
Q: I do not know. Formerly, I would have said: on my body; now I can see that th
e body is
secondary, not primary, and cannot be considered as an evidence of existence.
M: I am glad you have abandoned the l-am-the-body idea, the main source of error
and suffering.
Q: I have abandoned it intellectually, but the sense of being the particular, a
person, is still with
me. I can say: 'I am', but what I am I cannot say. I know I exist, but I do not
know what exists.
Whichever way I put it, I face the unknown.
M: Your very being is the real.
Q: Surely, we are not talking of the same thing. I am not some abstract being. I
am a person,
limited and aware of its limitations. I am a fact, but a most unsubstantial fact
I am. There is nothing I
can build on my momentary existence as a person.
M: Your words are wiser than you are! As a person, your existence is momentary.
But are you a
person only? Are you a person at all?
Q: How am I to answer? My sense of being proves only that I am; it does not prov
e anything which
is independent of me. I am relative, both creature and creator of the relative.
The absolute proof of
the absolute truth -- what is it, where is it? Can the mere feeling 'I am' be th
e proof of reality?
M: Of course not. 'I am' and 'the world is' are related and conditional. They ar
e due to the tendency
of the mind to project names and shapes.
Q: Names and shapes and ideas and convictions, but not truth. But for you, I wou
ld have accepted
the relativity of everything, including truth, and learnt to live by assumptions
. But then I meet you
and hear you talking of the Absolute as within my reach and also as supremely de
sirable. Words
like peace, bliss, eternity, immortality, catch my attention, as offering freedo
m from pain and fear.
My inborn instincts: pleasure seeking and curiosity are roused and I begin to ex
plore the realm you
have opened. All seems most attractive and naturally I ask. Is it attainable? Is
it real?
M: You are like a child that says: Prove that the sugar is sweet then only I sha
ll have it. The proof
of the sweetness is in the mouth not in the sugar. To know it is sweet, you must
taste it, there is no
other way. Of course, you begin by asking: Is it sugar? Is it sweet? and you acc
ept my assurance
until you taste it. Then only all doubts dissolve and your knowledge becomes fir
st hand and
unshakable. I do not ask you to believe me. Just trust me enough to begin with.
Every step proves
or disproves itself. You seem to want the proof of truth to precede truth. And w
hat will be the proof
of the proof? You see, you are falling into a regress. To cut it you must put a
stop to asking for
proofs and accept, for a moment only, something as true. It does not really matt
er what it is. It may
be God, or me, or your own self. In each case you accept something, or somebody,
 unknown as
true. Now, if you act on the truth you have accepted, even for a moment, very so
on you will be
brought to the next step. It is like climbing a tree in the dark -- you can get
hold of the next branch
only when you are perched on the previous one. In science it is called the exper
imental approach.
To prove a theory you carry out an experiment according to the operational instr
uctions, left by
those who have made the experiment before you. In spiritual search the chain of
experiments one
has to make is called Yoga.
Q: There are so many Yogas, which to choose?
M: Of course, every jnani will suggest the path of his own attainment as the one
he knows most
intimately. But most of them are very liberal and adapt their advice to the need
s of the enquirer. All
the paths take you to the purification of the mind. The impure mind is opaque to
truth; the pure mind
is transparent. Truth can be seen through it easily and clearly.
Q: I am sorry, but I seem unable to convey my difficulty. I and asking about the
proof of truth and
am being given the methods of attaining it. Assuming I follow the methods and at
tain some most
wonderful and desirable state, how do I come to know that my state is true? Ever
y religion begins
with faith and promises some ecstasy. Is the ecstasy of the real, or the product
of faith? For, if it is
an induced state, I shall have nothing to do with it. Take Christianity that say
s: Jesus is your
Saviour, believe and be saved from sin. When I ask a sinning Christian how is it
that he has not
been saved from sin in spite of his faith in Christ, he answers: My faith is not
perfect. Again we are
in the vicious circle -- without perfect faith -- no salvation, without salvatio
n -- no perfect faith, hence
no salvation. Conditions are imposed which are unfulfillable and then we are bla
med for not fulfilling
them.
M: You do not realise that your present waking state is one of ignorance. Your q
uestion about the
proof of truth is born from ignorance of reality. You are contacting your sensor
y and mental states in
consciousness, at the point of 'I am', while reality is not mediated, not contac
ted, not experienced.
You are taking duality so much for granted, that you do not even notice it, whil
e to me variety and
diversity do not create separation. You imagine reality to stand apart from name
s and forms, while
to me names and forms are the ever changing expressions of reality and not apart
from it. You ask
for the proof of truth while to me all existence is the proof. You separate exis
tence from being and
being from reality, while to me it is all one. However much you are convinced of
the truth of your
waking state, you do not claim it to be permanent and changeless, as I do when I
talk of mine. Yet I
see no difference between us, except that you are imagining things, while I do n
ot.
Q: First you disqualify me from asking about truth, then you accuse me of imagin
ation! What is
imagination to you is reality to me.
M: Until you investigate. I am not accusing you of anything. I am only asking yo
u to question
wisely. Instead of searching for the proof of truth, which you do not know, go t
hrough the proofs you
have of what you believe to know. You will find you know nothing for sure -- you
trust on hearsay.
To know the truth, you must pass through your own experience.
Q: I am mortally afraid of samadhis and other trances, whatever their cause. A d
rink, a smoke, a
fever, a drug, breathing, singing, shaking, dancing, whirling, praying, sex or f
asting, mantras or
some vertiginous abstraction can dislodge me from my waking state and give me so
me experience,
extraordinary because unfamiliar. But when the cause ceases, the effect dissolve
s and only a
memory remains, haunting but fading.
Let us give up all means and their results, for the results are bound by the mea
ns; let us put the
question anew; can truth be found?
M: Where is the dwelling place of truth where you could go in search of it? And
how will you know
that you have found it? What touchstone do you bring with you to test it? You ar
e back at your initial
question: What is the proof of truth? There must be something wrong with the que
stion itself, for you
tend to repeat it again and again. Why do you ask what are the proofs of truth?
Is it not because
you do not know truth first hand and you are afraid that you may be deceived? Yo
u imagine that
truth is a thing which carries the name 'truth' and that it is advantageous to h
ave it, provided it is
genuine. Hence your fear of being cheated. You are shopping for truth, but you d
o not trust the
merchants. You are afraid of forgeries and imitations.
Q: I am not afraid of being cheated. I am afraid of cheating myself.
M: But you are cheating yourself in your ignorance of your true motives. You are
asking for truth,
but in fact you merely seek comfort, which you want to last for ever. Now, nothi
ng, no state of mind,
can last for ever. In time and space there is always a limit, because time and s
pace themselves are
limited. And in the timeless the words 'for ever' have no meaning. The same with
the 'proof of truth'.
In the realm of non-duality everything is complete, its own proof, meaning and p
urpose. Where all is
one, no supports are needed. You imagine that permanence is the proof of truth,
that what lasts
longer is somehow more true. Time becomes the measure of truth. And since time i
s in the mind,
the mind becomes the arbiter and searches within itself for the proof of truth -
- a task altogether
impossible and hopeless!
Q: Sir, were you to say: Nothing is true, all is relative, I would agree with yo
u. But you maintain
there is truth, reality, perfect knowledge, therefore I ask: What is it and how
do you know? And what
will make me say: Yes, Maharaj was right?
M: You are holding on to the need for a proof, a testimony, an authority. You st
ill imagine that truth
needs pointing at and telling you: 'Look, here is truth'. It is not so. Truth is
not the result of an effort,
the end of a road. It is here and now, in the very longing and the search for it
. It is nearer than the
mind and the body, nearer than the sense 'I am'. You do not see it because you l
ook too far away
from yourself, outside your innermost being. You have objectified truth and insi
st on your standard
proofs and tests, which apply only to things and thoughts.
Q: All I can make out from what you say is that truth is beyond me and I am not
qualified to talk
about it.
M: You are not only qualified, but you are truth itself. Only you mistake the fa
lse for the true.
Q: You seem to say: Don't ask for proofs of truth. Concern yourself with untruth
only.
M: The discovery of truth is in the discernment of the false. You can know what
is not. What is --
you can only be. Knowledge is relative to the known. In a way it is the counterp
art of ignorance.
Where ignorance is not, where is the need of knowledge? By themselves neither ig
norance nor
knowledge have being. They are only states of mind, which again is but an appear
ance of
movement in consciousness which is in its essence immutable.
Q: Is truth within the realm of the mind or beyond?
M: It is neither, it is both. It cannot be put into words.
Q: This is what I hear all the time -- inexpressible (anirvachaniya). It does no
t make me wiser.
M: It is true that it often covers sheer ignorance. The mind can operate with te
rms of its own
making, it just cannot go beyond itself. That which is neither sensory nor menta
l, and yet without
which neither sensory nor the mental can exist, cannot be contained in them. Do
understand that
the mind has its limits; to go beyond, you must consent to silence.
Q: Can we say that action is the proof of truth? It may not be verbalised, but i
t may be
demonstrated.
M: Neither action nor inaction. It is beyond both.
Q: Can a man ever say: 'Yes, this is true'? Or is he limited to the denial of th
e false? In other
words, is truth pure negation? Or, does a moment come when it becomes assertion?
M: Truth cannot be described, but it can be experienced.
Q: Experience is subjective, it cannot be shared. Your experiences leaves me whe
re I am.
M: Truth can be experienced, but it is not mere experience. I know it and I can
convey it, but only if
you are open to it. To be open means to want nothing else.
Q: I am full of desires and fears. Does it mean that I am not eligible for truth
?
M: Truth is not a reward for good behaviour, nor a prize for passing some tests.
It cannot be
brought about. It is the primary, the unborn, the ancient source of all that is.
You are eligible
because you are. You need not merit truth. It is your own. Just stop running awa
y by running after.
Stand still, be quiet.
Q: Sir, if you want the body to be still and the mind -- quiet, tell me how it i
s done. In self-
awareness I see the body and the mind moved by causes beyond my control. Heredit
y and
environment dominate me absolutely. The mighty 'I am', the creator of the univer
se, can be wiped
out by a drug temporarily, or a drop of poison -- permanently.
M: Again, you take yourself to be the body.
Q: Even if I dismiss this body of bones, flesh and blood as not-me, still I rema
in with the subtle
body made up of thoughts and feelings, memories and imaginations. If I dismiss t
hese also as not-
me, I still remain with consciousness, which also is a kind of body.
M: You are quite right, but you need not stop there. Go beyond. Neither consciou
sness, nor the 'I
am' at the centre of it are you. Your true being is entirely un-self-conscious,
completely free from all
self-identification with whatever it may be, gross, subtle or transcendental.
Q: I can imagine myself to be beyond. But what proof have l? To be, I must be so
mebody.
M: It is the other way round. To be, you must be nobody. To think yourself to be
something, or
somebody, is death and hell.
Q: I have read that in ancient Egypt people were admitted to some mysteries wher
e, under the
influence of drugs or incantations, they would be expelled from their bodies and
could actually
experience standing outside and looking at their own prostrate forms. This was i
ntended to
convince them of the reality of the after-death existence and create in them a d
eep concern with
their ultimate destiny, so profitable to the state and temple. The self-identifi
cation with the person
owning the body remained.
M: The body is made of food, as the mind is made of thoughts. See them as they a
re. Non-
identification, when natural and spontaneous, is liberation. You need not know w
hat you are.
Enough to know what you are not. What you are you will never know, for every dis
covery reveals
new dimensions to conquer. The unknown has no limits.
Q: Does it imply ignorance for ever?
M: It means that ignorance never was. Truth is in the discovery not in the disco
vered. And to
discovery there is no beginning and no end. Question the limits, go beyond, set
yourself tasks
apparently impossible -- this is the way.
75. In Peace and Silence you Grow
Questioner: The Indian tradition tells us that the Guru is indispensable. What i
s he indispensable
for? A mother is indispensable for giving the child a body. But the soul she doe
s not give. Her role is
limited. How is it with the Guru? Is his role also limited, and if so, to what?
Or is he indispensable
generally, even absolutely?
Maharaj: The innermost light, shining peacefully and timelessly in the heart, is
the real Guru. All
others merely show the way.
Q: I am not concerned with the inner Guru. only with the one that shows the way.
There are
people who believe that without a Guru Yoga is inaccessible. They are ever in se
arch of the right
Guru, changing one for another. Of what value are such Gurus?
M: They are temporary, time-bound Gurus. You find them in every walk of life. Yo
u need them for
acquiring any knowledge or skill.
Q: A mother is only for a lifetime, she begins at birth and ends at death. She i
s not for ever.
M:. Similarly, the time-bound Guru is not for ever. He fulfils his purpose and y
ields his place to the
next. It is quite natural and there is no blame attached to it.
Q: For every kind of knowledge, or skill, do I need a separate Guru?
M: There can be no rule in these matters, except one 'the outer is transient, th
e innermost --
permanent and changeless', though ever new in appearance and action.
Q: What is the relation between the inner and the outer Gurus?
M: The outer represent the inner, the inner accepts the outer -- for a time.
Q: Whose is the effort?
M: The disciple's, of course. The outer Guru gives the instructions, the inner s
ends the strength;
the alert application is the disciple's. Without will, intelligence and energy o
n the part of the disciple
the outer Guru is helpless. The inner Guru bids his chance. Obtuseness and wrong
pursuits bring
about a crisis and the disciple wakes up to his own plight. Wise is he who does
not wait for a shock,
which can be quite rude.
Q: Is it a threat?
M: Not a threat, a warning. The inner Guru is not committed to non-violence. He
can be quite
violent at times, to the point of destroying the obtuse or perverted personality
. Suffering and death,
as life and happiness, are his tools of work. It is only in duality that non-vio
lence becomes the
unifying law.
Q: Has one to be afraid of his own self?
M: Not afraid, for the self means well.. But it must be taken seriously. It call
s for attention and
obedience; when it is not listened to, it turns from persuasion to compulsion, f
or while it can wait, it
shall not be denied. The difficulty lies not with the Guru, inner or outer. The
Guru is always
available. It is the ripe disciple that is lacking. When a person is not ready,
what can be done?
Q: Ready or willing?
M: Both. It comes to the same. In India we call it adhikari. It means both capab
le and entitled.
Q: Can the outer Guru grant initiation (diksha)?
M: He can give all kinds of initiations, but the initiation into Reality must co
me from within.
Q: Who gives the ultimate initiation?
M: It is self-given.
Q: I feel we are running in circles. After all, I know one self only, the presen
t, empirical self. The
inner or higher self is but an idea conceived to explain and encourage. We talk
of it as having
independent existence. It hasn't.
M: The outer self and the inner both are imagined. The obsession of being an 'I'
needs another
obsession with a 'super-l' to get cured, as one needs another thorn to remove a
thorn, or another
poison to neutralise a poison. All assertion calls for a denial, but this is the
first step only. The next
is to go beyond both.
Q: I do understand that the outer Guru is needed to call my attention to myself
and to the urgent
need of doing something about myself. I also understand how helpless he is when
it comes to any
deep change in me. But here you bring in the sadguru, the inner Guru, beginningl
ess, changeless,
the root of being, the standing promise, the certain goal. Is he a concept or a
reality?
M: He is the only reality. All else is shadow, cast by the body mind (deha-buddh
i) on the face of
time. Of course, even a shadow is related to reality, but by itself it is not re
al.
Q: I am the only reality I know. The sadguru is there as long as I think of him.
What do I gain by
shifting reality to him?
M: Your loss is your gain. When the shadow is seen to be a shadow only, you stop
following it. You
turn round and discover the sun which was there all the time -- behind your back
!
Q: Does the inner Guru also teach?
M: He grants the conviction that you are the eternal, changeless, reality-consci
ousness-love, within
and beyond all appearances.
Q: A conviction is not enough. There must be certainty.
M: Quite right. But in this case certainty takes the shape of courage. Fear ceas
es absolutely. This
state of fearlessness is so unmistakably new, yet felt deeply as one's own, that
it cannot be denied.
It is like loving one's own child. Who can doubt it?
Q: We hear of progress in our spiritual endeavours. What kind of progress do you
have in mind?
M: When you go beyond progress, you will know what is progress.
Q: What makes us progress?
M: Silence is the main factor. In peace and silence you grow.
Q: The mind is so absolutely restless. For quieting it what is the way?
M: Trust the teacher. Take my own case. My Guru ordered me to attend to the sens
e 'I am' and to
give attention to nothing else. I just obeyed. I did not follow any particular c
ourse of breathing, or
meditation, or study of scriptures. Whatever happened, I would turn away my atte
ntion from it and
remain with the sense I am', it may look too simple, even crude. My only reason f
or doing it was
that my Guru told me so. Yet it worked! Obedience is a powerful solvent of all d
esires and fears.
Just turn away from all that occupies the mind; do whatever work you have to com
plete, but avoid
new obligations; keep empty, keep available, resist not what comes uninvited.
In the end you reach a state of non-grasping, of joyful non-attachment, of inner
ease and freedom
indescribable, yet wonderfully real.
Q: When a truth-seeker earnestly practices his Yogas, does his inner Guru guide
and help him or
does he leave him to his own resources, just waiting for the outcome?
M: All happens by itself. Neither the seeker. nor the Guru do anything. Things h
appen as they
happen; blame or praise are apportioned later, after the sense of doership appea
ring.
Q: How strange! Surely the doer comes before the deed.
M: It is the other way round; the deed is a fact, the doer a mere concept. Your
very language
shows that while the deed is certain, the doer is dubious; shifting responsibili
ty is a game peculiarly
human. Considering the endless list of factors required for anything to happen,
one can only admit
that everything is responsible for everything, however remote. Doership is a myt
h born from the
illusion of 'me' and 'the mine'.
Q: How powerful the illusion?
M: No doubt, because based on reality.
Q: What is real in it?
M: Find out, by discerning and rejecting all that is unreal.
Q: I have not understood well the role of the inner self in spiritual endeavour.
Who makes the
effort? Is it the outer self, or the inner?
M: You have invented words like effort, inner, outer, self, etc. and seek to imp
ose them on reality.
Things just happen to be as they are, but we want to build them into a pattern,
laid down by the
structure of our language. So strong is this habit, that we tend to deny reality
to what cannot be
verbalised. We just refuse to see that words are mere symbols, related by conven
tion and habit to
repeated experiences.
Q: What is the value of spiritual books?
M: They help in dispelling ignorance. They are useful in the beginning, but beco
me a hindrance in
the end. One must know when to discard them.
Q: What is the link between atma and sattva, between the self and the universal
harmony?
M: As between the sun and its rays. Harmony and beauty, understanding and affect
ion are all
expressions of reality. It is reality in action, the impact of the spirit on mat
ter. Tamas obscures, rajas
distorts, sattva harmonises. With the maturing of the sattva all desires and fea
rs come to an end.
The real being is reflected in the mind undistorted. Matter is redeemed, spirit
-- revealed. The two
are seen as one. They were always one, but the imperfect mind saw them as two. P
erfection of the
mind is the human task, for matter and spirit meet in the mind.
Q: I feel like a man before a door. I know the door is open but it is guarded by
the dogs of desire
and fear. What am I to do?
M: Obey the teacher and brave the dogs. Behave as if they were not there. Again,
obedience is the
golden rule. Freedom is won by obedience. To escape from prison one must unquest
ioningly obey
instructions sent by those who work for one's release.
Q: The words of the Guru, when merely heard, have little power. One must have fa
ith to obey
them. What creates such faith?
M: When the time comes, faith comes. Everything comes in time. The Guru is alway
s ready to
share, but there are no takers.
Q: Yes, Sri Ramana Maharshi used to say: Gurus there are many, but where are the
disciples?
M: Well, in the course of time everything happens. All will come through, not a
single soul (jiva)
shall be lost.
Q: I am very much afraid of taking intellectual understanding for realisation. I
may talk of truth
without knowing it, and may know it without a single word said.
I understand these conversations are going to be published. What will be their e
ffect on the reader?
M: In the attentive and thoughtful reader they will ripen and bring out flowers
and fruits. Words
based on truth, if fully tested, have their own power.
76. To Know that You do not Know, is True Knowledge
Maharaj: There is the body. Inside the body appears to be an observer and outsid
e -- a world under
observation. The observer and his observation as well as the world observed all
appear and
disappear together. Beyond it all, there is void. This void is one for all.
Questioner: What you say appears simple, but not everyone would say it. It is yo
u, and you alone,
who talks of the three and the void beyond. I see the world only, which includes
all.
M: Even the 'I am'?
Q: Even the 'I am'. The 'I am' is there because the world is there.
M: And the world is there because the 'I am' is there.
Q: Yes, it goes both ways. I cannot separate the two, nor go beyond, I cannot sa
y something is,
unless I experience it, as I cannot say something is not, because I do not exper
ience it. What is it
that you experience that makes you speak with such assurance?
M: I know myself as I am -- timeless, spaceless, causeless. You happen not to kn
ow, being
engrossed as you are in other things.
Q: Why am I so engrossed?
M: Because you are interested.
Q: What makes me interested?
M: Fear of pain, desire for pleasure. Pleasant is the ending of pain and painful
the end of pleasure.
They just rotate in endless succession. Investigate the vicious circle till you
find yourself beyond it.
Q: Don't I need your grace to take me beyond?
M: The grace of your Inner Reality is timelessly with you. Your very asking for
grace is a sign of it.
Do not worry about my grace, but do what you are told. The doing is the proof of
earnestness, not
the expecting of grace.
Q: What am I to be earnest about?
M: Assiduously investigate everything that crosses your field of attention. With
practice the field will
broaden and investigation deepen, until they become spontaneous and limitless.
Q: Are you not making realisation the result of practice? Practice operates with
in the limitations of
physical existence. How can it give birth to the unlimited?
M: Of course, there can be no causal connection between practice and wisdom. But
the obstacles
to wisdom are deeply affected by practice.
Q: What are the obstacles?
M: Wrong ideas and desires leading to wrong actions, causing dissipation and wea
kness of mind
and body. The discovery and abandonment of the false remove what prevents the re
al entering the
mind.
Q: I can distinguish two states of mind: 'I am' and 'the world is ; they arise and
subside together.
People say: 'I am, because the world is'. You seem to say: 'The world is, becaus
e I am'. Which is
true?
M: Neither. The two are one and the same state, in space and time. Beyond, there
is the timeless.
Q: What is the connection between time and the timeless?
M: The timeless knows the time, the time does not know the timeless. All conscio
usness is in time
and to it the timeless appears unconscious. Yet, it is what makes consciousness
possible. Light
shines in darkness. In light darkness is not visible. Or, you can put it the oth
er way -- in the endless
ocean of light, clouds of consciousness appear -- dark and limited, perceivable
by contrast. These
are mere attempts to express in words something very simple, yet altogether inex
pressible.
Q: Words should serve as a bridge to cross over.
M: Word refers to a state of mind, not to reality. The river, the two banks, the
bridge across -- these
are all in the mind. Words alone cannot take you beyond the mind. There must be
the immense
longing for truth, or absolute faith in the Guru. Believe me, there is no goal,
nor a way to reach it.
You are the way and the goal, there is nothing else to reach except yourself. Al
l you need is to
understand and understanding is the flowering of the mind. The tree is perennial
, but the flowering
and the fruit bearing come in season. The seasons change, but not the tree. You
are the tree. You
have grown numberless branches and leaves in the past and you may grow them also
in the future
-- yet you remain. Not what was, or shall be, must you know, but what is. Yours
is the desire that
creates the universe. Know the world as your own creation and be free.
Q: You say the world is the child of love. When I know the horrors the world is
full of, the wars, the
concentration camps, the inhuman exploitations, how can I own it as my own creat
ion? However
limited I am, I could not have created so cruel a world.
M: Find to whom this cruel world appears and you will know why it appears so cru
el. Your
questions are perfectly legitimate, but just cannot be answered unless you know
whose is the world.
To find out the meaning of a thing you must ask its maker. I am telling you: You
are the maker of
the world in which you live -- you alone can change it, or unmake it.
Q: How can you say I have made the world? I hardly know it.
M: There is nothing in the world that you cannot know, when you know yourself. T
hinking yourself
to be the body you know the world as a collection of material things. When you k
now yourself as a
centre of consciousness, the world appears as the ocean of the mind. When you kn
ow yourself as
you are in reality, you know the world as yourself.
Q: It all sounds very beautiful, but does not answer my question. Why is there s
o much suffering in
the world?
M: If you stand aloof as observer only, you will not suffer. You will see the wo
rld as a show. a most
entertaining show indeed.
Q: Oh, no! This lila theory I shall not have. The suffering is too acute and all
-pervading. What a
perversion to be entertained by a spectacle of suffering! What a cruel God are y
ou offering me!
M: The cause of suffering is in the identification of the perceiver with the per
ceived. Out of it desire
is born and with desire blind action, unmindful of results. Look round and you w
ill see -- suffering is
a man-made thing.
Q: Were a man to create his own sorrow only, I would agree with you. But in his
folly he makes
others suffer. A dreamer has his own private nightmare and none suffers but hims
elf. But what kind
of dream is it that plays havoc in the lives of others?
M: Descriptions are many and contradictory. Reality is simple -- all is one, har
mony is the eternal
law, none compels to suffer. It is only when you try to describe and explain, th
at the words fail you.
Q: I remember Gandhiji telling me once that the Self is not bound by the law of
non-violence
(ahimsa). The Self has the freedom to impose suffering on its expressions in ord
er to set them right.
M: On the level of duality it may be so, but in reality there is only the source
, dark in itself, making
everything shine. Unperceived, it causes perception. Unfelt, it causes feeling.
Unthinkable, it causes
thought. Non-being, it gives birth to being. It is the immovable background of m
otion. Once you are
there you are at home everywhere.
Q: If I am that, then what causes me to be born?
M: The memory of the past unfulfilled desires traps energy, which manifests itse
lf as a person.
When its charge gets exhausted, the person dies. Unfulfilled desires are carried
over into the next
birth. Self-identification with the body creates ever fresh desires and there is
no end to them, unless
this mechanism of bondage is clearly seen. It is clarity that is liberating, for
you cannot abandon
desire, unless its causes and effects are clearly seen. I do not say that the sa
me person is reborn. It
dies and dies for good. But its memories remain and their desires and fears. The
y supply the
energy for a new person. The real takes no part in it, but makes it possible by
giving it, the light.
Q: My difficulty is this. As I can see, every experience is its own reality. It
is there -- experienced.
The moment I question it and ask to whom it happens, who is the observer and so
on, the
experience is over and all I can investigate is only the memory of it. I just ca
nnot investigate the
living moment -- the now. My awareness is of the past, not of the present. When
I am aware, I do
not really live in the now, but only in the past. Can there really be an awarene
ss of the present?
M: What you are describing is not awareness at all, but only thinking about the
experience. True
awareness (samvid) is a state of pure witnessing, without the least attempt to d
o anything about the
event witnessed. Your thoughts and feelings, words and actions may also be a par
t of the event;
you watch all unconcerned in the full light of clarity and understanding. You un
derstand precisely
what is going on, because it does not affect you. It may seem to be an attitude
of cold aloofness,
but it is not really so. Once you are in it, you will find that you love what yo
u see, whatever may be
its nature. This choiceless love is the touchstone of awareness. If it is not th
ere, you are merely
interested -- for some personal reasons.
Q: As long as there are pain and pleasure, one is bound to be interested.
M: And as long as one is conscious, there will be pain and pleasure. You cannot
fight pain and
pleasure on the level of consciousness. To go beyond them you must go beyond con
sciousness,
which is possible only when you look at consciousness as something that happens
to you and not in
you, as something external, alien, superimposed. Then, suddenly you are free of
consciousness,
really alone, with nothing to intrude. And that is your true state. Consciousnes
s is an itching rash
that makes you scratch. Of course, you cannot step out of consciousness for the
very idea of
stepping out is in consciousness. But if you learn to look at your consciousness
as a sort of fever,
personal and private, in which you are enclosed like a chick in its shell, out o
f this very attitude will
come the crisis which will break the shell.
Q: Buddha said that life is suffering.
M: He must have meant that all consciousness is painful, which is obvious.
Q: And does death offer delivery?
M: One who believes himself as having been born is very much afraid of death. On
the other hand,
to him who knows himself truly, death is a happy event.
Q: The Hindu tradition says that suffering is brought by destiny and destiny is
merited. Look at the
immense calamities, natural or man-made, floods and earthquakes, wars and revolu
tions. Can we
dare to think that each suffers for his own sins, of which he can have no idea?
The billions who
suffer, are they all criminals justly punished?
M: Must one suffer only for one's own sins? Are we really separate? In this vast
ocean of life we
suffer for the sins of others, and make others suffer for our sins. Of course, t
he law of balance rules
Supreme and accounts are squared in the end. But while life lasts, we affect eac
h other deeply.
Q: Yes, as the poet says: 'No man is an island'.
M: At the back of every experience is the Self and its interest in the experienc
e. Call it desire, call it
love -- words do not matter.
Q: Can I desire suffering? Can I deliberately ask for pain? Am I not like a man
who made for
himself a downy bed hoping for a good night of sleep and then he is visited by a
nightmare and he
tosses and screams in his dream? Surely, it is not the love that produces nightm
ares.
M: All suffering is caused by selfish isolation, by insularity and greed. When t
he cause of suffering
is seen and removed, suffering ceases.
Q: I may remove my causes of sorrow, but others will be left to suffer.
M: To understand suffering, you must go beyond pain and pleasure. Your own desir
es and fears
prevent you from understanding and thereby helping others. In reality there are
no others, and by
helping yourself you help everybody else. If you are serious about the suffering
s of mankind, you
must perfect the only means of help you have -- Yourself.
Q: You keep on saying that I am the creator, preserver and destroyer of this wor
ld, omnipresent,
omniscient, omnipotent. When I ponder over what you say, I ask myself: 'How is i
t that there is so
much evil in my world'.
M: There is no evil, there is no suffering; the joy of living is paramount. Look
, how everything clings
to life, how dear the existence is.
Q: On the screen of my mind images follow each other in endless succession. Ther
e is nothing
permanent about me.
M: Have a better look at yourself. The screen is there -- it does not change. Th
e light shines
steadily. Only the film in between keeps moving and causes pictures to appear. Y
ou may call the
film -- destiny (prarabdha).
Q: What creates destiny?
M: Ignorance is the cause of inevitability.
Q: Ignorance of what?
M: Ignorance of yourself primarily. Also, ignorance of the true nature of things
, of their causes and
effects. You look round without understanding and take appearances for reality.
You believe you
know the world and yourself -- but it is only your ignorance that makes you say:
I know. Begin with
the admission that you do not know and start from there.
There is nothing that can help the world more than your putting an end to ignora
nce. Then, you
need not do anything in particular to help the world. Your very being is a help,
action or no action.
Q: How can ignorance be known? To know ignorance presupposes knowledge.
M: Quite right. The very admission: 'I am ignorant' is the dawn of knowledge. An
ignorant man is
ignorant of his ignorance. You can say that ignorance does not exist, for the mo
ment it is seen it is
no more. Therefore, you may call it unconsciousness or blindness. All you see ar
ound and within
you is what you do not know and do not understand, without even knowing that you
do not know
and do not understand. To know that you do not know and do not understand is tru
e knowledge, the
knowledge of an humble heart.
Q: Yes, Christ said: Blessed are the poor in spirit...
M: Put it as you like; the fact is that knowledge is of ignorance only. You know
that you do not know.
Q: Will ignorance ever end?
M: What is wrong with not knowing? You need not know all. Enough to know what yo
u need to
know. The rest can look after itself, without your knowing how it does it. What
is important is that
your unconscious does not work against the conscious, that there is integration
on all levels. To
know is not so very important.
Q: What you say is correct psychologically. But when it comes to knowing others,
knowing the
world, my knowing that I do not know does not help much.
M: Once you are inwardly integrated, outer knowledge comes to you spontaneously.
 At every
moment of your life you know what you need to know. In the ocean of the universa
l mind all
knowledge is contained; it is yours on demand. Most of it you may never need to
know -- but it is
yours all the same.
As with knowledge, so it is with power.
Whatever you feel needs be done happens unfailingly. No doubt, God attends to th
is business of
managing the universe; but He is glad to have some help. When the helper is self
less and
intelligent, all the powers of the universe are for him to command.
Q: Even the blind powers of nature?
M: There are no blind powers. Consciousness is power. Be aware of what needs be
done and it
will be done. Only keep alert -- and quiet. Once you reach your destination and
Know your real
nature, your existence becomes a blessing to all. You may not know, nor will the
world know, yet
the help radiates. There are people in the world who do more good than all the s
tatesmen and
philanthropists put together. They radiate light and peace with no intention or
knowledge. When
others tell them about the miracles they worked, they also are wonder struck. Ye
t, taking nothing as
their own, they are neither proud, nor do they crave for reputation. They are ju
st unable to desire
anything for themselves, not even the joy of helping others knowing that God is
good they are at
peace.
77. 'I' and 'Mine' are False Ideas
Questioner: I am very much attached to my family and possessions. How can I conq
uer this
attachment?
Maharaj: This attachment is born along with the sense of 'me' and 'mine'. Find t
he true meaning of
these words and you will be free of all bondage. You have a mind which is spread
in time. One after
another all things happen to you and the memory remains. There is nothing wrong
in it. The
problem arises only when the memory of past pains and pleasures -- which are ess
ential to all
organic life -- remains as a reflex, dominating behaviour. This reflex takes the
shape of 'I' and uses
the body and the mind for its purposes, which are invariably in search for pleas
ure or flight from
pain. When you recognise the 'I' as it is, a bundle of desires and fears, and th
e sense of 'mine', as
embracing all things and people needed for the purpose of avoiding pain and secu
ring pleasure,
you will see that the 'I' and the 'mine' are false ideas, having no foundation i
n reality. Created by the
mind, they rule their creator as long as it takes them to be true; when question
ed, they dissolve.
The 'I' and 'mine', having no existence in themselves, need a support which they
find in the body.
The body becomes their point of reference. When you talk of 'my' husband and 'my
' children, you
mean the body's husband and the body's children. Give up the idea of being the b
ody and face the
question: Who am l? At once a process will be set in motion which will bring bac
k reality, or, rather,
will take the mind to reality. Only, you must not be afraid.
Q: What am I to be afraid of?
M: For reality to be, the ideas of 'me' and 'mine' must go. They will go if you
let them. Then your
normal natural state reappears, in which you are neither the body nor the mind,
neither the 'me nor
the 'mine', but in a different state of being altogether. It is pure awareness o
f being, without being
this or that, without any self-identification with anything in particular, or in
general. In that pure light
of consciousness there is nothing, not even the idea of nothing. There is only l
ight.
Q: There are people whom I love. Must I give them up?
M: You only let go your hold on them. The rest is up to them. They may lose inte
rest in you, or may
not.
Q: How could they? Are they not my own?
M: They are your body's, not your own. Or, better, there is none who is not your
own.
Q: And what about my possessions?
M: When the 'mine' is no more, where are your possessions?
Q: Please tell me, must I lose all by losing the 'I'?
M: You may or you may not. It will be all the same to you. Your loss will be som
ebody's gain. You
will not mind.
Q: If I do not mind, I shall lose all!
M: Once you have nothing you have no problems.
Q: I am left with the problem of survival.
M: It is the body's problem and it will solve it by eating, drinking and sleepin
g. There is enough for
all, provided all share.
Q: Our society is based on grabbing, not on sharing.
M: By sharing you will change it.
Q: I do not feel like sharing. Anyhow, I am being taxed out of my possessions.
M: This is not the same as voluntary sharing. Society will not change by compuls
ion. It requires a
change of heart. Understand that nothing is your own, that all belongs to all. T
hen only society will
change.
Q: One man's understanding will not take the world far.
M: The world in which you live will be affected deeply. it will be a healthy and
happy world, which
will radiate and communicate, increase and spread. The power of a true heart is
immense.
Q: Please tell us more.
M: Talking is not my hobby. Sometimes I talk, sometimes I do not. My talking, or
not talking, is a
part of a given situation and does not depend on me. When there is a situation i
n which I have to
talk, I hear myself talking. In some other situation I may not hear myself talki
ng. It is all the same to
me. Whether I talk or not, the light and love of being what I am are not affecte
d, nor are they under
my control. They are, and I know they are. There is a glad awareness, but nobody
who is glad. Of
course, there is a sense of identity, but it is the identity of a memory track,
like the identity of a
sequence of pictures on the ever-present screen. Without the light and the scree
n there can be no
picture. To know the picture as the play of light on the screen, gives freedom f
rom the idea that the
picture is real. All you have to do is to understand that you love the self and
the self loves you and
that the sense 'I am' is the link between you both, a token of identity in spite
of apparent diversity.
Look at the 'I am' as a sign of love between the inner and the outer, the real a
nd the appearance.
Just like in a dream all is different, except the sense of 'I', which enables yo
u to say 'I dreamt', so
does the sense of 'I am' enable you to say 'I am my real Self again . I do nothing
, nor is anything
done to me. I am what I am and nothing can affect me. I appear to depend on ever
ything, but in fact
all depends on me.
Q: How can you say you do nothing? Are you not talking to me?
M: I do not have the feeling that I am talking. There is talking going on, that
is all.
Q: I talk.
M: Do you? You hear yourself talking and you say: I talk.
Q: Everybody says: 'I work, I come, I go'.
M: I have no objection to the conventions of your language, but they distort and
destroy reality. A
more accurate way of saying would have been: 'There is talking, working, coming,
going'. For
anything to happen, the entire universe must coincide. It is wrong to believe th
at anything in
particular can cause an event. Every cause is universal. Your very body would no
t exist without the
entire universe contributing to its creation and survival. I am fully aware that
things happen as they
happen because the world is as it is. To affect the course of events I must brin
g a new factor into
the world and such factor can only be myself, the power of love and understandin
g focussed in me.
When the body is born, all kinds of things happen to it and you take part in the
m, because you take
yourself to be the body. You are like the man in the cinema house, laughing and
crying with the
picture, though knowing fully well that he is all the time in his seat and the p
icture is but the play of
light. It is enough to shift attention from the screen to oneself to break the s
pell. When the body
dies, the kind of life you live now -- succession of physical and mental events
-- comes to an end. It
can end even now -- without waiting for the death of the body -- it is enough to
shift attention to the
Self and keep it there. All happens as if there is a mysterious power that creat
es and moves
everything. realise that you are not the mover, only the observer, and you will
be at peace.
Q: Is that power separate from me?
M: Of course not. But you must begin by being the dispassionate observer. Then o
nly will you
realise your full being as the universal lover and actor. As long as you are enm
eshed in the
tribulations of a particular personality, you can see nothing beyond it. But ult
imately you will come to
see that you are neither the particular nor the universal, you are beyond both.
As the tiny point of a
pencil can draw innumerable pictures, so does the dimensionless point of awarene
ss draw the
contents of the vast universe. Find that point and be free.
Q: Out of what do I create this world?
M: Out of your own memories. As long as you are ignorant of yourself as the crea
tor, your world is
limited and repetitive. Once you go beyond your self-identification with your pa
st, you are free to
create a new world of harmony and beauty. Or you just remain -- beyond being and
non-being.
Q: What will remain with me if I let go my memories?
M: Nothing will remain.
Q: I am afraid.
M: You will be afraid until you experience freedom and its blessings. Of course,
some memories
are needed to identify and guide the body and such memories do remain, but there
is no
attachment left to the body as such; it is no longer the ground for desire or fe
ar. All this is not very
difficult to understand and practice, but you must be interested. Without intere
st nothing can be
done.
Having seen that you are a bundle of memories held together by attachment, step
out and look from
the outside. You may perceive for the first time something which is not memory.
You cease to be a
Mr-so-and-so, busy about his own affairs. You are at last at peace. You realise
that nothing was
ever wrong with the world -- you alone were wrong and now it is all over. Never
again will you be
caught in the meshes of desire born of ignorance.
78. All Knowledge is Ignorance
Questioner: Are we permitted to request you to tell us the manner of your realis
ation?
Maharaj: Somehow it was very simple and easy in my case. My Guru, before he died
, told me:
Believe me, you are the Supreme Reality. Don't doubt my words, don't disbelieve
me. I am telling
you the truth -- act on it. I could not forget his words and by not forgetting -
- I have realised.
Q: But what were you actually doing?
M: Nothing special. I lived my life, plied my trade, looked after my family, and
every free moment I
would spend just remembering my Guru and his words. He died soon after and I had
only the
memory to fall back on. It was enough.
Q: It must have been the grace and power of your Guru.
M: His words were true and so they came true. True words always come true. My Gu
ru did nothing;
his words acted because they were true. Whatever I did, came from within, un-ask
ed and
unexpected.
Q: The Guru started a process without taking any part in it?
M: Put it as you like. Things happen as they happen -- who can tell why and how?
I did nothing
deliberately. All came by itself -- the desire to let go, to be alone, to go wit
hin.
Q: You made no efforts whatsoever?
M: None. Believe it or not, I was not even anxious to realise. He only told me t
hat I am the
Supreme and then died. I just could not disbelieve him. The rest happened by its
elf. I found myself
changing -- that is all. As a matter of fact, I was astonished. But a desire aro
se in me to verify his
words. I was so sure that he, could not possibly have told a lie, that I felt I
shall either realise the full
meaning of his words or die. I was feeling quite determined, but did not know wh
at to do. I would
spend hours thinking of him and his assurance, not arguing, but just remembering
what he told me.
Q: What happened to you then? How did you know that you are the Supreme?
M: Nobody came to tell me. Nor was I told so inwardly. In fact, it was only in t
he beginning when I
was making efforts, that I was passing through some strange experiences; seeing
lights, hearing
voices, meeting gods and goddesses and conversing with them. Once the Guru told
me: 'You are
the Supreme Reality', I ceased having visions and trances and became very quiet
and simple. I
found myself desiring and knowing less and less, until I could say in utter asto
nishment: 'I know
nothing, I want nothing.'
Q: Were you genuinely free of desire and knowledge, or did you impersonate a jna
ni according to
the image given to you by your Guru?
M: I was not given any image, nor did I have one. My Guru never told me what to
expect.
Q: More things may happen to you. Are you at the end of your journey?
M: There was never any journey. I am, as I always was.
Q: What was the Supreme Reality you were supposed to reach?
M: I was undeceived, that is all. I used to create a world and populate it -- no
w I don't do it any
more.
Q: Where do you live, then?
M: In the void beyond being and non-being, beyond consciousness. This void is al
so fullness; do
not pity me. It is like a man saying: 'I have done my work, there is nothing lef
t to do'.
Q: You are giving a certain date to your realisation. It means something did hap
pen to you at that
date. What happened?
M: The mind ceased producing events. The ancient and ceaseless search stopped --
l wanted
nothing, expected nothing -- accepted nothing as my own. There was no 'me' left
to strive for. Even
the bare 'I am' faded away. The other thing that I noticed was that I lost all m
y habitual certainties.
Earlier I was sure of so many things, now I am sure of nothing. But I feel that
I have lost nothing by
not knowing, because all my knowledge was false. My not knowing was in itself kn
owledge of the
fact that all knowledge is ignorance, that 'I do not know' is the only true stat
ement the mind can
make. Take the idea 'I was born'. You may take it to be true. It is not. You wer
e never born, nor will
you ever die. It is the idea that was born and shall die, not you. By identifyin
g yourself with it you
became mortal. Just like in a cinema all is light, so does consciousness become
the vast world.
Look closely, and you will see that all names and forms are but transitory waves
on the ocean of
consciousness, that only consciousness can be said to be, not its transformation
s.
In the immensity of consciousness a light appears, a tiny point that moves rapid
ly and traces
shapes, thoughts and feelings, concepts and ideas, like the pen writing on paper
. And the ink that
leaves a trace is memory. You are that tiny point and by your movement the world
is ever re-
created. Stop moving, and there will be no world. Look within and you will find
that the point of light
is the reflection of the immensity of light in the body, as the sense 'I am'. Th
ere is only light, all else
appears.
Q: Do you know that light? Have you seen it?
M: To the mind it appears as darkness. It can be known only through its reflecti
ons. All is seen in
daylight -- except daylight.
Q: Have I to understand that our minds are similar?
M: How can it be? You have your own private mind, woven with memories, held toge
ther by
desires and fears. I have no mind of my own; what I need to know the universe br
ings before me, as
it supplies the food I eat.
Q: Do you know all you want to know?
M: There is nothing I want to know. But what I need to know, I come to know.
Q: Does this knowledge come to you from within or from outside?
M: It does not apply. My inner is outside and my outer is inside. I may get from
you the knowledge
needed at the moment, but you are not apart from me.
Q: What is turiya, the fourth state we hear about?
M: To be the point of light tracing the world is turiya. To be the light itself
is turiyatita. But of what
use are names when reality is so near?
Q: Is there any progress in your condition? When you compare yourself yesterday
with yourself
today, do you find yourself changing, making progress? Does your vision of reali
ty grow in width
and depth?
M: Reality is immovable and yet in constant movement. It is like a mighty river
-- it flows and yet it
is there -- eternally. What flows is not the river with its bed and banks, but i
ts water, so does the
sattva guna, the universal harmony, play its games against tamas and rajas, the
forces of darkness
and despair. In sattva there is always change and progress, in rajas there is ch
ange and regress,
while tamas stands for chaos. The three Gunas play eternally against each other
-- it is a fact and
there can be no quarrel with a fact.
Q: Must I always go dull with tamas and desperate with rajas? What about sattva?
M: Sattva is the radiance of your real nature. You can always find it beyond the
mind and its many
worlds. But if you want a world, you must accept the three gunas as inseparable
-- matter -- energy
-- life -- one in essence, distinct in appearance. They mix and flow -- in consc
iousness. In time and
space there is eternal flow, birth and death again, advance, retreat, another ad
vance, again retreat
-- apparently without a beginning and without end; reality being timeless, chang
eless, bodyless,
mindless awareness is bliss.
Q: I understand that, according to you, everything is a state of consciousness.
The world is full of
things -- a grain of sand is a thing, a planet is a thing. How are they related
to consciousness?
M: Where consciousness does not reach, matter begins. A thing is a form of being
which we have
not understood. It does not change -- it is always the same -- it appears to be
there on its own --
something strange and alien. Of course it is in the chit, consciousness, but app
ears to be outside
because of its apparent changelessness. The foundation of things is in memory --
without memory
there would be no recognition. Creation -- reflection -- rejection: Brahma -- Vi
shnu -- Shiva: this is
the eternal process. All things are governed by it.
Q: Is there no escape?
M: I am doing nothing else, but showing the escape. Understand that the One incl
udes the Three
and that you are the One, and you shall be free of the world process.
Q: What happens then to my consciousness?
M: After the stage of creation, comes the stage of examination and reflection an
d, finally, the stage
of abandonment and forgetting. The consciousness remains, but in a latent, quiet
state.
Q: Does the state of identity remain?
M: The state of identity is inherent in reality and never fades. But identity is
 neither the transient
personality (vyakti), nor the karma-bound individuality (vyakta). It is what rem
ains when all self-
identification is given up as false -- pure consciousness, the sense of being al
l there is, or could be.
Consciousness is pure in the beginning and pure in the end; in between it gets c
ontaminated by
imagination which is at the root of creation. At all times consciousness remains
the same. To know
it as it is, is realisation and timeless peace.
Q: Is the sense 'I am' real or unreal?
M: Both. It is unreal when we say: 'I am this, I am that'. It is real when we me
an 'I am not this, nor
that'.
The knower comes and goes with the known, and is transient; but that which knows
that it does not
know, which is free of memory and anticipation, is timeless.
Q: Is 'I am' itself the witness, or are they separate?
M: Without one the other cannot be. Yet they are not one. It is like the flower
and its colour. Without
flower -- no colours; without colour -- the flower remains unseen. Beyond is the
light which on
contact with the flower creates the colour. realise that your true nature is tha
t of pure light only, and
both the perceived and the perceiver come and go together. That which makes both
possible, and
yet is neither, is your real being, which means not being a 'this' or 'that', bu
t pure awareness of
being and not-being. When awareness is turned on itself, the feeling is of not k
nowing. When it is
turned outward, the knowables come into being. To say: 'I know myself' is a cont
radiction in terms
for what is 'known' cannot be 'myself'.
Q: If the self is for ever the unknown, what then is realised in self-realisatio
n?
M: To know that the known cannot be me nor mine, is liberation enough. Freedom f
rom self-
identification with a set of memories and habits, the state of wonder at the inf
inite reaches of the
being, its inexhaustible creativity and total transcendence, the absolute fearle
ssness born from the
realisation of the illusoriness and transiency of every mode of consciousness --
flow from a deep
and inexhaustible source. To know the source as source and appearance as appeara
nce, and
oneself as the source only is self-realisation.
Q: On what side is the witness? Is it real or unreal?
M: Nobody can say: I am the witness'. The I am' is always witnessed. The state of
detached
awareness is the witness-consciousness, the 'mirror-mind'. It rises and sets wit
h its object and thus
it is not quite the real. Whatever its object, it remains the same, hence it is
also real. It partakes of
both the real and the unreal and is therefore a bridge between the two.
Q: If all happens only to the 'I am', if the 'I am' is the known and the knower
and the knowledge
itself, what does the witness do? Of what use is it?
M: It does nothing and is of no use whatsoever.
Q: Then why do we talk of it?
M: Because it is there. The bridge serves one purpose only -- to cross over. You
don't build houses
on a bridge. The 'I am' looks at things, the witness sees through them. It sees
them as they are --
unreal and transient. To say 'not me, not mine' is the task of the witness.
Q: Is it the manifested (saguna) by which the unmanifested (nirguna) is represen
ted?
M: The unmanifested is not represented. Nothing manifested can represent the unm
anifested.
Q: Then why do you talk of it?
M: Because it is my birthplace.
79. Person, Witness and the Supreme
Questioner: We have a long history of drug-taking behind us, mostly drugs of the
consciousness-
expanding variety. They gave us the experience of other states of consciousness,
high and low, and
also the conviction, that drugs are unreliable and, at best, transitory and, at
worst, destructive of
organism and personality. We are in search of better means for developing consci
ousness and
transcendence. We want the fruits of our search to stay with us and enrich our l
ives, instead of
turning to pale memories and helpless regrets. If by the spiritual we mean self-
investigation and
development, our purpose in coming to India is definitely spiritual. The happy h
ippy stage is behind
us; we are serious now and on the move. We know there is reality to be found, bu
t we do not know
how to find and hold on to it. We need no convincing, only guidance. Can you hel
p us?
Maharaj: You do not need help, only advice. What you seek is already in you. Tak
e my own case. I
did nothing for my realisation. My teacher told me that the reality is within me
; I looked within and
found it there, exactly as my teacher told me. To see reality is as simple as to
see one's face in a
mirror. Only the mirror must be clear and true. A quiet mind, undistorted by des
ires and fears, free
from ideas and opinions, clear on all the levels, is needed to reflect the reali
ty. Be clear and quiet --
alert and detached, all else will happen by itself.
Q: You had to make your mind clear and quiet before you could realise the truth.
How did you do
it?
M: I did nothing. It just happened. I lived my life, attending to my family's ne
eds. Nor did my Guru
do it. It just happened, as he said it will.
Q: Things do not just happen. There must be a cause for everything.
M: All that happens is the cause of all that happens. Causes are numberless; the
idea of a sole
cause is an illusion.
Q: You must have been doing something specific -- some meditation or Yoga. How c
an you say
that realisation will happen on its own?
M: Nothing specific. I just lived my life.
Q: I am amazed!
M: So was I. But what was there to be amazed at? My teacher's words came true. S
o what? He
knew me better than I knew myself, that is all. Why search for causes? In the ve
ry beginning I was
giving some attention and time to the sense 'I am', but only in the beginning. S
oon after my Guru
died, I lived on. His words proved to be true. That is all. It is all one proces
s. You tend to separate
things in time and then look for causes.
Q: What is your work now? What are you doing?
M: You imagine being and doing as identical. It is not so. The mind and the body
move and change
and cause other minds and bodies to move and change and that is called doing, ac
tion. I see that it
is in the nature of action to create further action like fire that continues by
burning. I neither act nor
cause others to act; I am timelessly aware of what is going on.
Q: In your mind, or also in other minds?
M: There is only one mind, which swarms with ideas; 'I am this, I am that, this
is mine, that is mine'.
I am not the mind, never was, nor shall be.
Q: How did the mind come into being?
M: The world consists of matter, energy and intelligence. They manifest themselv
es in many ways.
Desire and imagination create the world and intelligence reconciles the two and
causes a sense of
harmony and peace To me it all happens; I am aware, yet unaffected.
Q: You cannot be aware, yet unaffected. There is a contradiction in terms. Perce
ption is change.
Once you have experienced a sensation, memory will not allow you to return to th
e former state.
M: Yes, what is added to memory cannot be erased easily. But it can surely be do
ne and, in fact, I
am doing it all the time. Like a bird on its wings, I leave no footprints.
Q: Has the witness name and form, or is it beyond these?
M: The witness is merely a point in awareness. It has no name and form. It is li
ke the reflection of
the sun in a drop of dew. The drop of dew has name and form, but the little poin
t of light is caused
by the sun. The clearness and smoothness of the drop is a necessary condition bu
t not sufficient by
itself. Similarly clarity and silence of the mind are necessary for the reflecti
on of reality to appear in
the mind, but by themselves they are not sufficient. There must be reality beyon
d it. Because reality
is timelessly present, the stress is on the necessary conditions.
Q: Can it happen that the mind is clear and quiet and yet no reflection appears?
M: There is destiny to consider. The unconscious is in the grip of destiny, it i
s destiny, in fact. One
may have to wait. But however heavy may be the hand of destiny, it can be lifted
by patience and
self-control. Integrity and purity remove the obstacles and the vision of realit
y appears in the mind.
Q: How does one gain self-control? I am so weak-minded!
M: Understand first that you are not the person you believe yourself to be. What
you think yourself
to be is mere suggestion or imagination. You have no parents, you were not born,
nor will you die.
Either trust me when I tell you so, or arrive to it by study and investigation.
The way of total faith is
quick, the other is slow but steady. Both must be tested in action. Act on what
you think is true --
this is the way to truth.
Q: Are deserving the truth and destiny one and the same?
M: Yes, both are in the unconscious. Conscious merit is mere vanity. Consciousne
ss is always of
obstacles; when there are no obstacles, one goes beyond it.
Q: Will the understanding that I am not the body give me the strength of charact
er needed for self-
control?
M: When you know that you are neither body nor mind, you will not be swayed by t
hem. You will
follow truth, wherever it takes you, and do what needs be done, whatever the pri
ce to pay.
Q: Is action essential for self-realisation?
M: For realisation, understanding is essential. Action is only incidental. A man
of steady
understanding will not refrain from action. Action is the test of truth.
Q: Are tests needed?
M: If you do not test yourself all the time, you will not be able to distinguish
between reality and
fancy. Observation and close reasoning help to some extent, but reality is parad
oxical. How do you
know that you have realised unless you watch your thoughts and feelings, words a
nd actions and
wonder at the changes occurring in you without your knowing why and how? It is e
xactly because
they are so surprising that you know that they are real. The foreseen and expect
ed is rarely true.
Q: How does the person come into being?
M: Exactly as a shadow appears when light is intercepted by the body, so does th
e person arise
when pure self-awareness is obstructed by the 'I-am-the-body' idea. And as the s
hadow changes
shape and position according to the lay of the land, so does the person appear t
o rejoice and suffer,
rest and toil, find and lose according to the pattern of destiny. When the body
is no more, the
person disappears completely without return, only the witness remains and the Gr
eat Unknown.
The witness is that which says 'I know'. The person says 'I do'. Now, to say 'I
know' is not untrue -- it
is merely limited. But to say 'I do' is altogether false, because there is nobod
y who does; all
happens by itself, including the idea of being a doer.
Q: Then what is action?
M: The universe is full of action, but there is no actor. There are numberless p
ersons small and big
and very big, who, through identification, imagine themselves as acting, but it
does not change the
fact that the world of action (mahadakash) is one single whole in which all depe
nds on, and affects
all. The stars affect us deeply and we affect the stars. Step back from action t
o consciousness,
leave action to the body and the mind; it is their domain. Remain as pure witnes
s, till even
witnessing dissolves in the Supreme.
Imagine a thick jungle full of heavy timber. A plank is shaped out of the timber
and a small pencil to
write on it. The witness reads the writing and knows that while the pencil and t
he plank are distantly
related to the jungle, the writing has nothing to do with it. It is totally supe
r-imposed and its
disappearance just does not matter. The dissolution of personality is followed a
lways by a sense of
great relief, as if a heavy burden has fallen off.
Q: When you say, I am in the state beyond the witness, what is the experience th
at makes you say
so? In what way does it differ from the stage of being a witness only?
M: It is like washing printed cloth. First the design fades, then the background
and in the end the
cloth is plain white. The personality gives place to the witness, then the witne
ss goes and pure
awareness remains. The cloth was white in the beginning and is white in the end;
the patterns and
colours just happened -- for a time.
Q: Can there be awareness without an object of awareness?
M: Awareness with an object we called witnessing. When there is also self-identi
fication with the
object, caused by desire or fear, such a state is called a person. In reality th
ere is only one state;
when distorted by self-identification it is called a person, when coloured with
the sense of being, it is
the witness; when colourless and limitless, it is called the Supreme.
Q: I find that I am always restless, longing, hoping, seeking, finding, enjoying
, abandoning,
searching again. What is it that keeps me on the boil?
M: You are really in search of yourself, without knowing it. You are love-longin
g for the love-worthy,
the perfectly lovable. Due to ignorance you are looking for it in the world of o
pposites and
contradictions. When you find it within, your search will be over.
Q: There will be always this sorrowful world to contend with.
M: Don't anticipate. You do not know. It is true that all manifestation is in th
e opposites. Pleasure
and pain, good and bad, high and low, progress and regress, rest and strife they
all come and go
together -- and as long as there is a world, its contradictions will be there. T
here may also be
periods of perfect harmony, of bliss and beauty, but only for a time. What is pe
rfect, returns to the
source of all perfection and the opposites play on.
Q: How am I to reach perfection?
M: Keep quiet. Do your work in the world, but inwardly keep quiet. Then all will
 come to you. Do not
rely on your work for realisation. It may profit others, but not you. Your hope
lies in keeping silent in
your mind and quiet in your heart. realised people are very quiet.
80. Awareness
Questioner: Does it take time to realise the Self, or time cannot help to realis
e? Is self-realisation a
matter of time only, or does it depend on factors other than time?
Maharaj: All waiting is futile. To depend on time to solve our problems is self-
delusion. The future,
left to itself merely repeats the past. Change can only happen now, never in the
future.
Q: What brings about a change?
M: With crystal clarity see the need of change. This is all.
Q: Does self-realisation happen in matter, or beyond? Is it not an experience de
pending on the
body and the mind for its occurrence?
M: All experience is illusory, limited and temporal. Expect nothing from experie
nce. realisation by
itself is not an experience, though it may lead to a new dimension of experience
s. Yet the new
experiences, however interesting, are not more real than the old. Definitely rea
lisation is not a new
experience. It is the discovery of the timeless factor in every experience. It i
s awareness, which
makes experience possible. Just like in all the colours light is the colourless
factor, so in every
experience awareness is present, yet it is not an experience.
Q: If awareness is not an experience, how can it be realised?
M: Awareness is ever there. It need not be realised. Open the shutter of the min
d, and it will be
flooded with light.
Q: What is matter?
M: What you do not understand is matter.
Q: Science understands matter.
M: Science merely pushes back the frontiers of our ignorance.
Q: And what is nature?
M: The totality of conscious experiences is nature. As a conscious self you are
a part of nature. As
awareness, you are beyond. Seeing nature as mere consciousness is awareness.
Q: Are there levels of awareness?
M: There are levels in consciousness, but not in awareness. It is of one block,
homogeneous. Its
reflection in the mind is love and understanding. There are levels of clarity in
understanding and
intensity in love, but not in their source. The source is simple and single, but
its gifts are infinite.
Only do not take the gifts for the source. realise yourself as the source and no
t as the river; that is
all.
Q: I am the river too.
M: Of course, you are. As an 'I am' you are the river, flowing between the banks
of the body. But
you are also the source and the ocean and the clouds in the sky. Wherever there
is life and
consciousness, you are. Smaller than the smallest, bigger than the biggest, you
are, while all else
appears.
Q: The sense of being and the sense of living -- are they one and the same, or d
ifferent?
M: The identity in space creates one, the continuity in time creates the other.
Q: You said once that the seer, seeing and the seen are one single thing, not th
ree. To me the
three are separate. I do not doubt your words, only I do not understand.
M: Look closely and you will see that the seer and the seen appear only when the
re is seeing.
They are attributes of seeing. When you say 'I am seeing this'. 'I am' and 'this
' come with seeing,
not before. You cannot have an unseen 'this' nor an unseeing 'I am'.
Q: I can say: 'I do not see'.
M: The 'I am seeing this' has become 'l am seeing my not seeing', or 'I am seein
g darkness'. The
seeing remains. In the triplicity: the known, knowing and the knower, only the k
nowing is a fact. The
'I am' and 'this' are doubtful. Who knows? What is known? There is no certainty,
except that there is
knowing.
Q: Why am I sure of knowing, but not of the knower?
M: Knowing is a reflection of your true nature along with being and loving. The
knower and the
known are added by the mind. It is in the nature of the mind to create a subject
-object duality, where
there is none.
Q: What is the cause of desire and fear?
M: Obviously, the memory of past pains and pleasures. There is no great mystery
about it. Conflict
arises only when desire and fear refer to the same object.
Q: How to put an end to memory?
M: It is neither necessary, nor possible. realise that all happens in consciousn
ess and you are the
root, the source, the foundation of consciousness. The world is but a succession
of experiences and
you are what makes them conscious, and yet remain beyond all experience. It is l
ike the heat, the
flame and the burning wood. The heat maintains the flame, the flame consumes the
wood. Without
heat there would be neither flame nor fuel. Similarly, without awareness there w
ould be no
consciousness, nor life, which transforms matter into a vehicle of consciousness
.
Q: You maintain that without me there would be no world, and that the world and
my knowledge of
the world are identical. Science has come to a quite different conclusion: the w
orld exists as
something concrete and continuous, while I am a by-product of biological evoluti
on of the nervous
system, which is primarily not so much a seat of consciousness, as a mechanism o
f survival as
individual and species. Yours is altogether a subjective view, while science tri
es to describe
everything in objective terms. Is this contradiction inevitable?
M: The confusion is apparent and purely verbal. What is, is. It is neither subje
ctive nor objective.
Matter and mind are not separate, they are aspects of one energy. Look at the mi
nd as a function of
matter and you have science; look at matter as the product of the mind and you h
ave religion.
Q: But what is true? What comes first, mind or matter?
M: Neither comes first. for neither appears alone. Matter is the shape, mind is
the name. Together
they make the world. Pervading and transcending is Reality, pure being -- awaren
ess -- bliss, your
very essence.
Q: All I know is the stream of consciousness, an endless succession of events. T
he river of time
flows, bringing and carrying away relentlessly. Transformation of the future int
o past is going on all
the time.
M: Are you not the victim of your language? You speak about the flow of time, as
if you were
stationary. But the events you have witnessed yesterday somebody else may see to
morrow. It is
you who are in movement and not time. Stop moving and time will cease.
Q: What does it mean -- time will cease?
M: Past and future will merge in the eternal now.
Q: But what does it mean in actual experience? How do you know that for you time
has ceased?
M: It may mean that past and future do not matter any more. It may also mean tha
t all that
happened and will happen becomes an open book to be read at will.
Q: I can imagine a sort of cosmic memory, accessible with some training. But how
can the future
be known? The unexpected is inevitable.
M: What is unexpected on one level may be certain to happen, when seen from a hi
gher level After
all, we are within the limits of the mind. In reality nothing happens, there is
no past nor future; all
appears and nothing is.
Q: What does it mean, nothing is? Do you turn blank, or go to sleep? Or do you d
issolve the world
and keep us all in abeyance, until we are brought back to life at the next flick
er of your thought?
M: Oh, no, it is not that bad. The world of mind and matter, of names and shapes
, continues, but it
does not matter to me at all. It is like having a shadow. It is there -- followi
ng me wherever I go, but
not hindering me in any way. It remains a world of experiences, but not of names
and forms related
to me by desires and fears. The experiences are qualityless, pure experiences, i
f I may say so. I call
them experiences for the lack of a better word. They are like the waves on the s
urface of the ocean,
the ever-present, but not affecting its peaceful power.
Q: You mean to say an experience can be nameless, formless, undefined?
M: In the beginning all experience is such. It is only desire and fear, born of
memory, that give it
name and form and separate it from other experiences. It is not a conscious expe
rience, for it is not
in opposition to other experiences, yet it is an experience all the same.
Q: If it is not conscious, why talk about it?
M: Most of your experiences are unconscious. The conscious ones are very few. Yo
u are unaware
of the fact because to you only the conscious ones count. Become aware of the un
conscious .
Q: Can one be aware of the unconscious? How is it done?
M: Desire and fear are the obscuring and distorting factors. When mind is free o
f them the
unconscious becomes accessible.
Q: Does it mean that the unconscious becomes conscious?
M: It is rather the other way round. The conscious becomes one with the unconsci
ous. The
distinction ceases, whichever way you look at it.
Q: I am puzzled. How can one be aware and yet unconscious?
M: Awareness is not limited to consciousness. It is of all that is. Consciousnes
s is of duality. There
is no duality in awareness. It is one single block of pure cognition. In the sam
e way one can talk of
the pure being and pure creation -- nameless, formless, silent and yet absolutel
y real, powerful,
effective. Their being indescribable does not affect them in the least. While th
ey are unconscious,
they are essential. The conscious cannot change fundamentally, it can only modif
y. Any thing, to
change, must pass through death, through obscuration and dissolution. Gold jewel
lery must be
melted down before it is cast into another shape. What refuses to die cannot be
reborn.
Q: Barring the death of the body, how does one die?
M: Withdrawal, aloofness, letting go is death. To live fully, death is essential
; every ending makes a
new beginning. On the other hand, do understand, that only the dead can die, not
the living. That
which is alive in you, is immortal.
Q: From where does desire draw its energy?
M: Its name and shape it draws from memory. The energy flows from the source.
Q: Some desires are altogether wrong. How can wrong desires flow from a sublime
source?
M: The source is neither right nor wrong. Nor is desire by itself right or wrong
. It is nothing but
striving for happiness. Having identified yourself with a speck of a body you fe
el lost and search
desperately for the sense of fullness and completeness you call happiness.
Q: When did I lose it? I never had it.
M: You had it before you woke up this morning. Go beyond your consciousness and
you will find it.
Q: How am I to go beyond?
M: You know it already; do it.
Q: That's what you say. I know nothing about it.
M: Yet I repeat -- you know it. Do it. Go beyond, back to your normal, natural,
supreme state.
Q: I'm puzzled.
M: A speck in the eye makes you think you are blind. Wash it out and look.
Q: I do look! I see only darkness.
M: Remove the speck and your eyes will be flooded with light. The light is there
-- waiting. The
eyes are there -- ready. The darkness you see is but the shadow of the tiny spec
k. Get rid of it and
come back to your natural state.
81. Root Cause of Fear
Maharaj: Where do you come from?
Questioner: I am from the United States, but I live mostly in Europe. To India I
came recently. I was
in Rishikesh, in two Ashrams. I was taught meditation and breathing.
M: How long were you there?
Q: Eight days in one, six days in another. I was not happy there and I left. The
n for three weeks I
was with the Tibetan Lamas. But they were all wrapped up in formulas and rituals
.
M: And what was the net result of it all?
Q: Definitely there was an increase of energy. But before I left for Rishikesh,
I did some fasting
and dieting at a Nature Cure Sanatorium at Pudukkotai in South India. It has don
e me enormous
good.
M: Maybe the access of energy was due to better health.
Q: I cannot say. But as a result of all these attempts some fires started burnin
g in various places in
my body and I heard chants and voices where there were none.
M: And what are you after now?
Q: Well, what are we all after? Some truth, some inner certainty, some real happ
iness. In the
various schools of self-realisation there is so much talk of awareness, that one
ends with the
impression that awareness itself is the supreme reality. Is it so? The body is l
ooked after by the
brain, the brain is illumined by consciousness; awareness watches over conscious
ness; is there
anything beyond awareness?
M: How do you know that you are aware?
Q: I feel that I am. I cannot express it otherwise.
M: When you follow it up carefully from brain through consciousness to awareness
, you find that
the sense of duality persists. When you go beyond awareness, there is a state of
non-duality, in
which there is no cognition, only pure being, which may be as well called non-be
ing, if by being you
mean being something in particular.
Q: What you call pure being is it universal being, being everything?
M: Everything implies a collection of particulars. In pure being the very idea o
f the particular is
absent.
Q: Is there any relationship between pure being and particular being?
M: What relationship can there be between what is and what merely appears to be?
Is there any
relationship between the ocean and its waves? The real enables the unreal to app
ear and causes it
to disappear. the succession of transient moments creates the illusion of time,
but the timeless
reality of pure being is not in movement, for all movement requires a motionless
background. It is
itself the background. Once you have found it in yourself, you know that you had
never lost that
independent being, independent of all divisions and separations. But don't look
for it in
consciousness, you will not find it there. Don't look for it anywhere, for nothi
ng contains it. On the
contrary, it contains everything and manifests everything. It is like the daylig
ht that makes
everything visible while itself remaining invisible.
Q: Sir, of what use to me is your telling me that reality cannot be found in con
sciousness? Where
else am I to look for it? How do you apprehend it?
M: It is quite simple. If I ask you what is the taste of your mouth all you can
do is to say: it is neither
sweet nor bitter, nor sour nor astringent; it is what remains when all these tas
tes are not. Similarly,
when all distinctions and reactions are no more, what remains is reality, simple
and solid.
Q: All that I understand is that I am in the grip of a beginningless illusion. A
nd I do not see how it
can come to an end. If it could, it would -- long ago. I must have had as many o
pportunities in the
past as I shall have in the future. What could not happen cannot happen. Or, if
it did, it could not
last. Our very deplorable state after all these untold millions of years carries
, at best, the promise of
ultimate extinction, or, which is worse, the threat of an endless and meaningles
s repetition.
M: What proof have you that your present state is beginningless and endless? How
were you
before you were born? How will you be after death? And of your present state --
how much do you
know? You do not know even what was your condition before you woke up this morni
ng? You only
know a little of your present state and from it you draw conclusions for all tim
es and places. You
may be just dreaming and imagining your dream to be eternal.
Q: Calling it a dream does not change the situation. I repeat my question: what
hope is left which
the eternity behind me could not fulfil? Why should my future be different from
my past?
M: In your fevered state, you project a past and a future and take them to be re
al. In fact, you know
only your present moment. Why not investigate what is now, instead of questionin
g the imaginary
past and future? Your present state is neither beginningless nor endless. If is
over in a flash. Watch
carefully from where it comes and where it goes. You will soon discover the time
less reality behind
it.
Q: Why have I not done it before?
M: Just as every wave subsides into the ocean, so does every moment return to it
s source.
realisation consists in discovering the source and abiding there.
Q: Who discovers?
M: The mind discovers.
Q: Does it find the answers?
M: It finds that it is left without questions, that no answers are needed.
Q: Being born is a fact. Dying is another fact. How do they appear to the witnes
s?
M: A child was born; a man has died -- just events in the course of time.
Q: Is there any progress in the witness? Does awareness evolve?
M: What is seen may undergo many changes when the light of awareness is focussed
on it, but it
is the object that changes, not the light. Plants grow in sunlight, but the sun
does not grow. By
themselves both the body and the witness are motionless, but when brought togeth
er in the mind,
both appear to move.
Q: Yes, I can see that what moves and changes is the 'I am' only. Is the 'I am'
needed at all?
M: Who needs it? It is there -- now. It had a beginning it will have an end.
Q: What remains when the I am goes?
M: What does not come and go -- remains. It is the ever greedy mind that creates
ideas of
progress and evolution towards perfection. It disturbs and talks of order, destr
oys and seeks
security.
Q: Is there progress in destiny, in karma?
M: Karma is only a store of unspent energies, of unfulfilled desires and fears n
ot understood. The
store is being constantly replenished by new desires and fears. It need not be s
o for ever.
Understand the root cause of your fears -- estrangement from yourself: and of de
sires -- the longing
for the self, and your karma will dissolve like a dream. Between earth and heave
n life goes on.
Nothing is affected, only bodies grow and decay.
Q: Between the person and the witness, what is the relation?
M: There can be no relation between them because they are one. Don't separate an
d don't look for
relationship.
Q: If the seer and the seen are one, how did the separation occur?
M: Fascinated by names and forms, which are by their very nature distinct and di
verse, you
distinguish what is natural and separate what is one. The world is rich in diver
sity, but your feeling
strange and frightened is due to misapprehension. It is the body that is in dang
er, not you.
Q: I can see that the basic biological anxiety, the flight instinct, takes many
shapes and distorts my
thoughts and feelings. But how did this anxiety come into being?
M: It is a mental state caused by the 'I-am-the-body' idea. It can be removed by
the contrary idea: 'I-
am-not-the-body'. Both the ideas are false, but one removes the other. realise t
hat no ideas are
your own, they all come to you from outside. You must think it all out for yours
elf, become yourself
the object of your meditation. The effort to understand yourself is Yoga. Be a Y
ogi, give your life to
it, brood, wonder, search, till you come to the root of error and to the truth b
eyond the error.
Q: In meditation, who meditates, the person or the witness?
M: Meditation is a deliberate attempt to pierce into the higher states of consci
ousness and finally
go beyond it. The art of meditation is the art of shifting the focus of attentio
n to ever subtler levels,
without losing one's grip on the levels left behind. In a way it is like having
death under control. One
begins with the lowest levels: social circumstances, customs and habits; physica
l surroundings, the
posture and the breathing of the body, the senses, their sensations and percepti
ons; the mind, its
thoughts and feelings; until the entire mechanism of personality is grasped and
firmly held. The final
stage of meditation is reached when the sense of identity goes beyond the 'I-am-
so-and-so', beyond
'so-l-am', beyond 'I-am-the-witness-only', beyond 'there-is', beyond all ideas i
nto the impersonally
personal pure being. But you must be energetic when you take to meditation. It i
s definitely not a
part-time occupation. Limit your interests and activities to what is needed for
you and your
dependents' barest needs. Save all your energies and time for breaking the wall
your mind had built
around you. Believe me, you will not regret.
Q: How do I come to know that my experience is universal?
M: At the end of your meditation all is known directly, no proofs whatsoever are
required. Just as
every drop of the ocean carries the taste of the ocean, so does every moment car
ry the taste of
eternity. Definitions and descriptions have their place as useful incentives for
further search, but you
must go beyond them into what is undefinable and indescribable, except in negati
ve terms.
After all, even universality and eternity are mere concepts, the opposites of be
ing place and time-
bound. Reality is not a concept, nor the manifestation of a concept. It has noth
ing to do with
concepts. Concern yourself with your mind, remove its distortions and impurities
. Once you had the
taste of your own self, you will find it everywhere and at all times. Therefore,
it is so important that
you should come to it. Once you know it, you will never lose it.
But you must give yourself the opportunity through intensive, even arduous medit
ation.
Q: What exactly do you want me to do?
M: Give your heart and mind to brooding over the 'I am', what is it, how is it,
what is its source, its
life, its meaning. It is very much like digging a well. You reject all that is n
ot water, till you reach the
life-giving spring.
Q: How shall I know that I am moving in the right direction?
M: By your progress in intentness, in clarity and devotion to the task.
Q: We, Europeans, find it very difficult to keep quiet. The world is too much wi
th us.
M: Oh, no, you are dreamers too. We differ only in the contents of our dreams. Y
ou are after
perfection -- in the future. We are intent on finding it -- in the now. The limi
ted only is perfectible.
The unlimited is already perfect. You are perfect, only you don't know it. Learn
to know yourself and
you will discover wonders.
All you need is already within you, only you must approach your self with revere
nce and love. Self-
condemnation and self-distrust are grievous errors. Your constant flight from pa
in and search for
pleasure is a sign of love you bear for your self, all I plead with you is this:
make love of your self
perfect. Deny yourself nothing -- glue your self infinity and eternity and disco
ver that you do not
need them; you are beyond.
82. Absolute Perfection is Here and Now
Questioner: The war is on. What is your attitude to it?
Maharaj: In some place or other, in some form or other, the war is always on. Wa
s there a time
when there was no war? Some say it is the will of God. Some say it is God's play
. It is another way
of saying that wars are inevitable and nobody is responsible.
Q: But what is your own attitude?
M: Why impose attitudes on me? I have no attitude to call my own.
Q: Surely somebody is responsible for this horrible and senseless carnage. Why d
o people kill
each other so readily?
M: Search for the culprit within. The ideas of 'me' and 'mine' are at the root o
f all conflict. Be free of
them and you will be out of conflict.
Q: What of it that I am out of conflict? It will not affect the war. If I am the
cause of war, I am ready
to be destroyed. Yet, it stands to reason that the disappearance of a thousand l
ike me will not stop
wars. They did not start with my birth nor will end with my death. I am not Resp
onsible. Who is?
M: Strife and struggle are a part of existence. Why don't you enquire who is res
ponsible for
existence?
Q: Why do you say that existence and conflict are inseparable? Can there be no e
xistence without
strife? I need not fight others to be myself.
M: You fight others all the time for your survival as a separate body-mind, a pa
rticular name and
form. To live you must destroy. From the moment you were conceived you started a
war with your
environment -- a merciless war of mutual extermination, until death sets you fre
e.
Q: My question remains unanswered. You are merely describing what I know -- life
and its
sorrows. But who is responsible, you do not say. When I press you, you throw the
blame on God, or
karma, or on my own greed and fear -- which merely invites further questions. Gi
ve me the final
answer.
M: The final answer is this: nothing is. All is a momentary appearance in the fi
eld of the universal
consciousness; continuity as name and form is a mental formation only, easy to d
ispel.
Q: I am asking about the immediate, the transitory, the appearance. Here is a pi
cture of a child
killed by soldiers. It is a fact -- staring at you. You cannot deny it. Now, who
is responsible for the
death of the child?
M: Nobody and everybody. The world is what it contains and each thing affects al
l others. We all
kill the child and we all die with it. Every event has innumerable causes and pr
oduces numberless
effects. It is useless to keep accounts, nothing is traceable.
Q: Your people speak of karma and retribution.
M: It is merely a gross approximation: in reality we are all creators and creatu
res of each other,
causing and bearing each other's burden.
Q: So, the innocent suffers for the guilty?
M: In our ignorance we are innocent; in our actions we are guilty. We sin withou
t knowing and
suffer without understanding. Our only hope: to stop, to look, to understand and
to get out of the
traps of memory. For memory feeds imagination and imagination generates desire a
nd fear.
Q: Why do I imagine at all?
M: The light of consciousness passes through the film of memory and throws pictu
res on your
brain. Because of the deficient and disordered state of your brain, what you per
ceive is distorted
and coloured by feelings of like and dislike. Make your thinking orderly and fre
e from emotional
overtones, and you will see people and things as they are, with clarity and char
ity.
The witness of birth, life and death is one and the same. It is the witness of p
ain and of love. For
while the existence in limitation and separation is sorrowful, we love it. We lo
ve it and hate it at the
same time. We fight, we kill, we destroy life and property and yet we are affect
ionate and self-
sacrificing. We nurse the child tenderly and orphan it too. Our life is full of
contradictions. Yet we
cling to it. This clinging is at the root of everything. Still, it is entirely s
uperficial. We hold on to
something or somebody, with all our might and next moment we forget it; like a c
hild that shapes its
mud-pies and abandons them light-heartedly. Touch them -- it will scream with an
ger, divert the
child and he forgets them. For our life is now, and the love of it is now. We lo
ve variety, the play of
pain and pleasure, we are fascinated by contrasts. For this we need the opposite
s and their
apparent separation. We enjoy them for a time and then get tired and crave for t
he peace and
silence of pure being. The cosmic heart beats ceaselessly. I am the witness and
the heart too.
Q: I can see the picture, but who is the painter? Who is responsible for this te
rrible and yet
adorable experience?
M: The painter is in the picture. You separate the painter from the picture and
look for him. Don't
separate and don't put false questions. Things are as they are and nobody in par
ticular is
responsible. The idea of personal responsibility comes from the illusion of agen
cy. 'Somebody must
have done it, somebody is responsible'. Society as it is now, with its framework
of laws and
customs, is based on the idea of a separate and responsible personality, but thi
s is not the only
form a society can take. There may be other forms, where the sense of separation
is weak and
responsibility diffused.
Q: An individual with a weak sense of personality -- is he nearer self-realisati
on?
M: Take the case of a young child. The sense of 'I-am' is not yet formed, the pe
rsonality is
rudimentary. The obstacles to self knowledge are few, but the power and the clar
ity of awareness,
its width and depth are lacking. In the course of years awareness will grow stro
nger, but also the
latent personality will emerge and obscure and complicate. Just as the harder th
e wood, the hotter
the flame, so the stronger the personality, brighter the light generated from it
s destruction.
Q: Have you no problems?
M: I do have problems. I told you already. To be, to exist with a name and form
is painful, yet I love
it.
Q: But you love everything!
M: In existence everything is contained. My very nature is to love; even the pai
nful is lovable.
Q: It does not make it less painful. Why not remain in the unlimited?
M: It is the instinct of exploration, the love of the unknown, that brings me in
to existence. It is in the
nature of being to see adventure in becoming, as it is in the very nature of bec
oming to seek peace
in being. This alteration of being and becoming is inevitable; but my home is be
yond.
Q: Is your home in God?
M: To love and worship a god is also ignorance. My home is beyond all notions, h
owever sublime.
Q: But God is not a notion! It is the reality beyond existence.
M: You may use any word you like. Whatever you may think of am beyond it.
Q: Once you know your home, why not stay in it? What takes you out of it?
M: Out of love for corporate existence one is born and once born, one gets invol
ved in destiny.
Destiny is inseparable from becoming. The desire to be the particular makes you
into a person with
all its personal past and future. Look at some great man, what a wonderful man h
e was! And yet
how troubled was his life and limited its fruits. How utterly dependent is the p
ersonality of man and
how indifferent is its world. And yet we love it and protect it for its very ins
ignificance.
Q: The war is on and there is chaos and you are being asked to take charge of a
feeding centre.
You are given what is needed, it is only a question of getting through the job.
Will you refuse it?
M: To work, or not to work, is one and the same to me. I may take charge, or may
not. There may
be others, better endowed for such tasks, than I am -- professional caterers for
instance. But my
attitude is different. I do not look at death as a calamity as I do not rejoice
at the birth of a child. The
child is out for trouble while the dead is out of it. Attachment to life is atta
chment to sorrow. We love
what gives us pain. Such is our nature.
For me the moment of death will be a moment of jubilation, not of fear. I cried
when I was born and I
shall die laughing.
Q: What is the change in consciousness at the moment of death?
M: What change do you expect? When the film projection ends all remains the same
as when it
started. The state before you were born was also the state after death, if you r
emember.
Q: I remember nothing.
M: Because you never tried. It is only a question of tuning in the mind. It requ
ires training, of course.
Q: Why don't you take part in social work?
M: But I am doing nothing else all the time! And what is the social work you wan
t me to do?
Patchwork is not for me. My stand is clear: produce to distribute, feed before y
ou eat, give before
you take, think of others, before you think of yourself. Only a selfless society
based on sharing can
be stable and happy. This is the only practical solution. If you do not want it
-- fight.
Q: It is all a matter of gunas. Where tamas and rajas predominate, there must be
war. Where
sattva rules, there will be peace.
M: Put it whichever way you like, it comes to the same. Society is built on moti
ves. Put goodwill into
the foundations and you will not need specialised social workers.
Q: The world is getting better.
M: The world had all the time to get better, yet it did not. What hope is there
for the future? Of
course, there have been and will be periods of harmony and peace, when sattva wa
s in
ascendance, but things get destroyed by their own perfection. A perfect society
is necessarily static
and, therefore, it stagnates and decays. From the summit all roads lead downward
s. Societies are
like people -- they are born, they grow to some point of relative perfection and
then decay and die.
Q: Is there not a state of absolute perfection which does not decay?
M: Whatever has a beginning must have an end. In the timeless all is perfect, he
re and now.
Q: But shall we reach the timeless in due course?
M: In due course we shall come back to the starting point. Time cannot take us o
ut of time, as
space cannot take us out of space. All you get by waiting is more waiting. Absol
ute perfection is
here and now, not in some future, near or far. The secret is in action -- here a
nd now. It is your
behaviour that blinds you to yourself. Disregard whatever you think yourself to
be and act as if you
were absolutely perfect -- whatever your idea of perfection may be. All you need
is courage.
Q: Where do I find such courage?
M: In yourself, of course. Look within.
Q: Your grace will help
M: My grace is telling you now: look within. All you need you have. Use it. Beha
ve as best you
know, do what you think you should. Don't be afraid of mistakes; you can always
correct them, only
intentions matter. The shape things take is not within your power; the motives o
f your actions are.
Q: How can action born from imperfection lead to perfection?
M: Action does not lead to perfection; perfection is expressed in action. As lon
g as you judge
yourself by your expressions give them utmost attention; when you realise your o
wn being your
behaviour will be perfect -- spontaneously.
Q: If I am timelessly perfect, then why was I born at all? What is the purpose o
f this life?
M: It is like asking: what does it profit gold to be made into an ornament? The
ornament gets the
colour and the beauty of gold; gold is not enriched. Similarly, reality expresse
d in action makes the
action meaningful and beautiful.
Q: What does the real gain through its expressions?
M: What can it gain? Nothing whatsoever. But it is in the nature of love to expr
ess itself, to affirm
itself, to overcome difficulties. Once you have understood that the world is lov
e in action, you will
look at it quite differently. But first your attitude to suffering must change.
Suffering is primarily a call
for attention, which itself is a movement of love. More than happiness, love wan
ts growth, the
widening and deepening of consciousness and being. Whatever prevents becomes a c
ause of pain,
and love does not shirk from pain. Sattva, the energy that works for righteousne
ss and orderly
development, must not be thwarted. When obstructed it turns against itself and b
ecomes
destructive. Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war beco
mes inevitable.
Our indifference to our neighbour s sorrow brings suffering to our door.
83. The True Guru
Questioner: You were saying the other day that at the root of your realisation w
as the trust in your
Guru. He assured you that you were already the Absolute Reality and there was no
thing more to be
done. You trusted him and left it at that, without straining, without striving.
Now, my question is:
without trust in your Guru would you have realised? After all, what you are, You
are, whether your
mind trusts or not; would doubt obstruct the action of the Guru's words and make
them inoperative?
Maharaj: You have said it -- they would have been made inoperative -- for a time
.
Q: And what would happen to the energy, or power in the Guru's words?
M: It would remain latent, unmanifested. But the entire question is based on a m
isunderstanding.
The master, the disciple, the love and trust between them, these are one fact, n
ot so many
independent facts. Each is a part of the other. Without love and trust there wou
ld have been no
Guru nor disciple, and no relationship between them. It is like pressing a switc
h to light an electric
lamp. It is because the lamp, the wiring, the switch, the transformer, the trans
mission lines and the
power house form a single whole, that you get the light. Any one factor missing
and there would be
no light. You must not separate the inseparable. Words do not create facts; they
either describe
them or distort. The fact is always non-verbal.
Q: I still do not understand; can the Guru's word remain unfulfilled or will it
invariably prove true?
M: Words of a realised man never miss their purpose. They wait for the right con
ditions to arise
which may take some time, and. this is natural, for there is a season for sowing
and a season for
harvesting. But the word of a Guru is a seed that cannot perish. Of course, the
Guru must be a real
one, who is beyond the body and the mind, beyond consciousness itself, beyond sp
ace and time,
beyond duality and unity, beyond understanding and description. The good people
who have read a
lot and have a lot to say, may teach you many useful things, but they are not th
e real Gurus whose
words invariably come true. They also may tell you that you are the ultimate rea
lity itself, but what of
it?
Q: Nevertheless, if for some reason I happen to trust them and obey, shall I be
the loser?
M: If you are able to trust and obey, you will soon find your real Guru, or rath
er, he will find you.
Q: Does every knower of the Self become a Guru, or can one be a knower of Realit
y without being
able to take others to it?
M: If you know what you teach, you can teach what you know, Here seership and te
achership are
one. But the Absolute Reality is beyond both. The self-styled Gurus talk of ripe
ness and effort, of
merits and achievements, of destiny and grace; all these are mere mental formati
ons, projections of
an addicted mind. Instead of helping, they obstruct.
Q: How can I make out whom to follow and whom to mistrust?
M: Mistrust all, until you are convinced. The true Guru will never humiliate you
, nor will he estrange
you from yourself. He will constantly bring you back to the fact of your inheren
t perfection and
encourage you to seek within. He knows you need nothing, not even him, and is ne
ver tired of
reminding you. But the self appointed Guru is more concerned with himself than w
ith his disciples.
Q: You said that reality is beyond the knowledge and the teaching of the real. I
s not the knowledge
of reality the supreme itself and teaching the proof of its attainment?
M: The knowledge of the real, or the self, is a state of mind. Teaching another
is a movement in
duality. They concern the mind only; sattva is a Guna all the same.
Q: What is real then?
M: He who knows the mind as non-realised and realised, who knows ignorance and k
nowledge as
states of mind, he is the real. When you are given diamonds mixed with gravel, y
ou may either miss
the diamonds or find them. It is the seeing that matters. Where is the greyness
of the gravel and the
beauty of the diamond, without the power to see? The known is but a shape and kn
owledge is but a
name. The knower is but a state of mind. The real is beyond.
Q: Surely, objective knowledge and ideas of things and self knowledge are not on
e and the same
thing. One needs a brain, the other does not.
M: For the purpose of discussion you can arrange words and give them meaning, bu
t the fact
remains that all knowledge is a form of ignorance. The most accurate map is yet
only paper. All
knowledge is in memory; it is only recognition, while reality is beyond the dual
ity of the knower and
the known.
Q: Then by what is reality known?
M: How misleading is your language! You assume, unconsciously, that reality also
is approachable
through knowledge. And then you will bring in a knower of reality beyond reality
! Do understand that
to be, reality need not be known. Ignorance and knowledge are in the mind, not i
n the real.
Q: If there is no such thing as the knowledge of the real, then how do I reach i
t?
M: You need not reach out for what is already with you. Your very reaching out m
akes you miss it.
Give up the idea that you have not found it and just let it come into the focus
of direct perception,
here and now, by removing all that is of the mind.
Q: When all that can go, goes, what remains?
M: Emptiness remains, awareness remains, pure light of the conscious being remai
ns. It is like
asking what remains of a room when all the furniture is removed? A most servicea
ble room
remains. And when even the walls are pulled down, space remains. Beyond space an
d time is the
here and the now of reality.
Q: Does the witness remain?
M: As long as there is consciousness, its witness is also there. The two appear
and disappear
together.
Q: If the witness too is transient, why is he given so much importance?
M: Just to break the spell of the known, the illusion that only the perceivable
is real.
Q: Perception is primary, the witness -- secondary.
M: This is the heart of the matter. As long as you believe that only the outer w
orld is real, you
remain its slave. To become free, your attention must be drawn to the 'I am', th
e witness. Of course,
the knower and the known are one not two, but to break the spell of the known th
e knower must be
brought to the forefront. Neither is primary, both are reflections in memory of
the ineffable
experience, ever new and ever now, untranslatable, quicker than the mind.
Q: Sir, I am an humble seeker, wandering from Guru to Guru in search of release.
My mind is sick,
burning with desire, frozen with fear. My days flit by, red with pain, grey with
boredom. My age is
advancing, my health decaying, my future dark and frightening. At this rate I sh
all live in sorrow and
die in despair. Is there any hope for me? Or have I come too late?
M: Nothing is wrong with you, but the ideas you have of yourself are altogether
wrong. It is not you
who desires, fears and suffers, it is the person built on the foundation of your
body by
circumstances and influences. You are not that person. This must be clearly esta
blished in your
mind and never lost sight of. Normally, it needs a prolonged sadhana, years of a
usterities and
meditation.
Q: My mind is weak and vacillating. I have neither the strength nor the tenacity
for sadhana. My
case, is hopeless.
M: In a way yours is a most hopeful case. There is an alternative to sadhana, wh
ich is trust. If you
cannot have the conviction born from fruitful search, then take advantage of my
discovery, which I
am so eager to share with you. I can see with the utmost clarity that you have n
ever been, nor are,
nor will be estranged from realty, that you are the fullness of perfection here
and now and that
nothing can deprive you of your heritage, of what you are. You are in no way dif
ferent from me, only
you do not know it. You do not know what you are and therefore you imagine your
self to be what
you are not. Hence desires and fear and overwhelming despair. And meaningless ac
tivity in order to
escape.
Just trust me and live by trusting me. I shall not mislead you. You are the Supr
eme Reality beyond
the world and its creator, beyond consciousness and its witness, beyond all asse
rtions and denials.
Remember it, think of it, act on it. Abandon all sense of separation, see yourse
lf in all and act
accordingly. With action bliss will come and, with bliss, conviction. After all,
you doubt yourself
because you are in sorrow. Happiness, natural, spontaneous and lasting cannot be
imagined. Either
it is there, or it is not. Once you begin to experience the peace, love and happ
iness which need no
outer causes, all your doubts will dissolve. Just catch hold of what I told you
and live by it.
Q: You are telling me to live by memory?
M: You are living by memory anyhow. I am merely asking you to replace the old me
mories by the
memory of what I told you. As you were acting on your old memories, act on the n
ew one. Don't be
afraid. For some time there is bound to be a conflict between the old and the ne
w, but if you put
yourself resolutely on the side of the new, the strife will soon come to an end
and you will realise the
effortless state of being oneself, of not being deceived by desires and fears bo
rn of illusion.
Q: Many Gurus have the habit of giving tokens of their grace -- their head cloth
, or their sticks, or
begging bowl, or robe, thus transmitting or confirming the self-realisation of t
heir disciples. I can see
no value in such practices. It is not self-realisation that is transmitted, but
self-importance. Of what
earthly use is being told something very flattering, but not true? On one hand y
ou are warning me
against the many self-styled Gurus, on the other you want me to trust you. Why d
o you claim to be
an exception?
M: I do not ask you to trust me. Trust my words and remember them, I want your h
appiness, not
mine. Distrust those who put a distance between you and your true being and offe
r themselves as a
go-between. I do nothing of the kind. I do not even make any promises. I merely
say: if you trust my
words and put them to test, you will for yourself discover how absolutely true t
hey are. If you ask for
a proof before you venture, I can only say: I am the proof. I did trust my teach
er's words and kept
them in my mind and I did find that he was right, that I was, am and shall be th
e Infinite Reality,
embracing all, transcending all.
As you say, you have neither the time nor the energy for lengthy practices. I of
fer you an alternative.
Accept my words on trust and live anew, or live and die in sorrow.
Q: It seems too good to be true.
M: Don't be misled by the simplicity of the advice. '\very few are those who hav
e the courage to
trust the innocent and the simple. To know that you are a prisoner of your mind,
that you live in an
imaginary world of your own creation is the dawn of wisdom. To want nothing of i
t, to be ready to
abandon it entirely, is earnestness. Only such earnestness, born of true despair
, will make you trust
me.
Q: Have l not suffered enough?
M: Suffering has made you dull, unable to see its enormity. Your first task is t
o see the sorrow in
you and around you; your next to long intensely for liberation. The very intensi
ty of longing will guide
you; you need no other guide.
Q: Suffering has made me dull, indifferent even to itself.
M: Maybe it is not sorrow but pleasure that made you dull. Investigate.
Q: Whatever may be the cause; I am dull. I have neither the will nor the energy.
M: Oh, no. You have enough for the first step. And each step will generate enoug
h energy for the
next. Energy comes with confidence and confidence comes with experience.
Q: Is it right to change Gurus?
M: Why not change? Gurus are like milestones? It is natural to move on from one
to another. Each
tells you the direction and the distance, while the sadguru, the eternal Guru, i
s the road itself. Once
you realise that the road is the goal and that you are always on the road, not t
o reach a goal, but to
enjoy its beauty and its wisdom, life ceases to be a task and becomes natural an
d simple, in itself
an ecstasy.
Q: So, there is no need to worship, to pray, to practice Yoga?
M: A little of daily sweeping, washing and bathing can do no harm. Self-awarenes
s tells you at
every step what needs be done. When all is done, the mind remains quiet.
Now you are in the waking state, a person with name and shape, joys and sorrows.
The person was
not there before you were born, nor will be there after you die. Instead of stru
ggling with the person
to make it become what it is not, why not go beyond the waking state and leave t
he personal life
altogether? It does not mean the extinction of the person; it means only seeing
it in right perspective.
Q: One more question. You said that before I was born I was one with the pure be
ing of reality; if
so, who decided that I should be born?
M: In reality you were never born and never shall die. But now you imagine that
you are, or have a
body and you ask what has brought about this state. Within the limits of illusio
n the answer is:
desire born from memory attracts you to a body and makes you think as one with i
t. But this is true
only from the relative point of view. In fact, there is no body, nor a world to
contain it; there is only a
mental condition, a dream-like state, easy to dispel by questioning its reality.
Q: After you die, will you come again? If I live long enough, will I meet you ag
ain.
M: To you the body is real, to me there is none. I, as you see me, exist in your
imagination only.
Surely, you will see me again, if and when you need me. It does not affect me, a
s the Sun is not
affected by sunrises and sunsets. Because it is not affected, it is certain to b
e there when needed.
You are bent on knowledge, I am not. I do not have that sense of insecurity that
makes you crave to
know. I am curious, like a child is curious. But there is no anxiety to make me
seek refuge in
knowledge. Therefore, I am not concerned whether I shall be reborn, or how long
will the world last.
These are questions born of fear.
84. Your Goal is Your Guru
Questioner: You were telling us that there are many self-styled Gurus, but a rea
l Guru is very rare.
There are many jnani who imagine themselves realised, but all they have is book
knowledge and a
high opinion of themselves. Sometimes they impress, even fascinate, attract disc
iples and make
them waste their time in useless practices. After some years, when the disciple
takes stock of
himself, he finds no change. When he complains to his teacher, he gets the usual
rebuke that he
did not try hard enough. The blame is on the lack of faith and love in the heart
of the disciple, while
in reality the blame is on the Guru, who had no business in accepting disciples
and raising their
hopes. How to protect oneself from such Gurus?
Maharaj: Why be so concerned with others? Whoever may be the Guru, if he is pure
of heart and
acts in good faith, he will do his disciples no harm. If there is no progress, t
he fault lies with the
disciples, their laziness and lack of self-control. On the other hand, if the di
sciple is earnest and
applies himself intelligently and with zest to his sadhana, he is bound to meet
a more qualified
teacher, who will take him further. Your question flows from three false assumpt
ions: that one needs
concern oneself with others; that one can evaluate another and that the progress
of the disciple is
the task and responsibility of his Guru. In reality, the Guru's role is only to
instruct and encourage;
the disciple is totally responsible for himself.
Q: We are told that total surrender to the Guru is enough, that the Guru will do
the rest.
M: Of course, when there is total surrender, complete relinquishment of all conc
ern with one's past,
presents and future, with one's physical and spiritual security and standing, a
new life dawns, full of
love and beauty; then the Guru is not important, for the disciple has broken the
shell of self-defence.
Complete self-surrender by itself is liberation.
Q: When both the disciple and his teacher are inadequate, what will happen?
M: In the long run all will be well. After all, the real Self of both is not aff
ected by the comedy they
play for a time. They will sober up and ripen and shift to a higher level of rel
ationship.
Q: Or, they may separate.
M: Yes, they may separate. After all, no relationship is forever. Duality is a t
emporary state.
Q: Is it by accident that I met you and by another accident shall we separate ne
ver to meet again?
Or is my meeting you a part of some cosmic pattern, a fragment in the great dram
a of our lives?
M: The real is meaningful and the meaningful relates to reality. If our relation
ship is meaningful to
you and me, it cannot be accidental. The future affects the present as much, as
the past.
Q: How can I make out who is a real saint and who is not?
M: You cannot, unless you have a clear insight into the heart of man. Appearance
s are deceptive.
To see clearly, your mind must be pure and unattached. Unless you know yourself
well, how can
you know another? And when you know yourself -- you are the other.
Leave others alone for some time and examine yourself. There are so many things
you do not know
about yourself -- what are you, who are you, how did you come to be born, what a
re you doing now
and why, where are you going, what is the meaning and purpose of your life, your
death, your
future? Have you a past, have you a future? How did you come to live in turmoil
and sorrow, while
your entire being strives for happiness and peace? These are weighty matters and
have to be
attended to first. You have no need, nor time for finding who is a jnani and who
is not?
Q: I must select my guru rightly.
M: Be the right man and the right Guru will surely find you.
Q: You are not answering my question: how to find the right Guru?
M: But I did answer your question. Do not look for a Guru, do not even think of
one. Make your goal
your Guru. After all, the Guru is but a means to an end, not the end in itself.
He is not important, it is
what you expect of him that matters to you. Now, what do you expect?
Q: By his grace I shall be made happy, powerful and peaceful.
M: What ambitions! How can a person limited in time and space, a mere body-mind,
a gasp of pain
between birth and death, be happy? The very conditions of its arising make happi
ness impossible.
Peace, power, happiness, these are never personal states, nobody can say my peace ,
my power
-- because mine implies exclusivity, which is fragile and insecure.
Q: I know only my conditioned existence; there is nothing else.
M: Surely, you cannot say so. In deep sleep you are not conditioned. How ready a
nd willing you
are to go to sleep, how peaceful, free and happy you are when asleep!
Q: I know nothing of it.
M: Put it negatively. When you sleep, you are not in pain, nor bound, nor restle
ss.
Q: I see your point. While awake, I know that I am, but am not happy; in sleep I
am, I am happy,
but I don t know it. All I need is to know that I am free and happy.
M: Quite so. Now, go within, into a state which you may compare to a state of wa
king sleep, in
which you are aware of yourself, but not of the world. In that state you will kn
ow, without the least
trace of doubt, that at the root of your being you are free and happy. The only
trouble is that you are
addicted to experience and you cherish your memories. In reality it is the other
way round; what is
remembered is never real; the real is now.
Q: All this I grasp verbally, but it does not become a part of myself. It remain
s as a picture in my
mind to be looked at. Is it not the task of the Guru to give life to the picture
?
M: Again, it is the other way round. The picture is alive; dead is the mind. As
the mind is made of
words and images, so is every reflection in the mind. It covers up reality with
verbalisation and then
complains. You say a Guru is needed, to do miracles with you. You are playing wi
th words only.
The Guru and the disciple are one single thing, like the candle and its flame. U
nless the disciple is
earnest, he cannot be called a disciple. Unless a Guru is all love and self-givi
ng, he cannot be
called a Guru. Only reality begets reality, not the false.
Q: I can see that I am false. Who will make me true?
M: The very words you said will do it. The sentence: I can see that I am false co
ntains all you
need for liberation. Ponder over it, go into it deeply, go to the root of it; it
will operate. The power is
in the word, not in the person.
Q: I do not grasp you fully. On one hand you say a Guru is needed; on the other
-- the Guru can
only give advice, bit the effort is mine. Please state clearly -- can one realis
e the Self without a
Guru, or is the finding of a true Guru essential?
M: More essential is the finding of a true disciple. Believe me, a true disciple
is very rare, for in no
time he goes beyond the need for a Guru, by finding his own self. Don t waste your
time on trying to
make out whether the advice you get flows from knowledge only, or from valid exp
erience! Just
follow it faithfully. Life will bring you another Guru, if another one is needed
. Or deprive you of all
outer guidance and leave you to your own lights. It is very important to underst
and that it is the
teaching that matters, not the person or the Guru. You get a letter that makes y
ou laugh or cry. It is
not the postman who does it. The Guru only tells you the good news about your re
al Self and shows
you the way back to it. In a way the Guru is its messenger. There will be many m
essengers, but the
message is one: be what you are. Or, you can put it differently: Until you reali
se yourself, you
cannot know who is your real Guru. When you realise, you find that all the Gurus
you had have
contributed to your awakening. Your realisation is the proof that your Guru was
real. Therefore, take
him as he is, do what he tells you, with earnestness and zeal and trust your hea
rt to warn you if
anything goes wrong. If doubt sets in, don t fight it. Cling to what is doubtless
and leave the doubtful
alone.
Q: I have a Guru and I love him very much. But whether he is my true Guru I do n
ot know.
M: Watch yourself. If you see yourself changing, growing, it means you have foun
d the right man.
He may be beautiful or ugly, pleasant or unpleasant, flattering you or scolding;
nothing matters
except the one crucial fact of inward growth. If you don t, well, he may be your f
riend, but not your
Guru.
Q: When I meet a European with some education and talk to him about a Guru and h
is teachings,
his reaction is: the man must be mad to teach such nonsense . What am I to tell him
?
M: Take him to himself. Show him, how little he knows himself, how he takes the
most absurd
statements about himself for holy truth. He is told that he is the body, was bor
n, will die, has
parents, duties, learns to like what others like and fear what others fear. Tota
lly a creature of
heredity and society, he lives by memory and acts by habits. Ignorant of himself
and his true
interests, he pursues false aims and is always frustrated. His life and death ar
e meaningless and
painful, and there seems to be no way out. Then tell him, there is a way out wit
hin his easy reach,
not a conversion to another set of ideas, but a liberation from all ideas and pa
tterns of living. Don t
tell him about Gurus and disciples -- this way of thinking is not for him. His i
s an inner path, he is
moved by an inner urge and guided by an inner light. Invite him to rebel and he
will respond. Do not
try to impress on him that so-and-so is a realised man and can be accepted as a
Guru. As long as
he does not trust himself, he cannot trust another. And confidence will come wit
h experience.
Q: How strange! I cannot imagine life without a Guru.
M: It is a matter of temperament. You too are right. For you, singing the praise
s of God is enough.
You need not desire realisation or take up a sadhana. God s name is all the food y
ou need. Live on
it.
Q: This constant repetition of a few words, is it not a kind of madness?
M: It is madness, but it is a deliberate madness. All repetitiveness is tamas, b
ut repeating the name
of God is sattva-tamas due to its high purpose. Because of the presence of sattv
a, the tamas will
wear out and will take the shape of complete dispassion, detachment, relinquishm
ent, aloofness,
immutability. Tamas becomes the firm foundation on which an integrated life can
be lived.
Q: The immutable -- does it die?
M: It is changing that dies. The immutable neither lives nor dies; it is the tim
eless witness of life and
death. You cannot call it dead, for it is aware. Nor can you call it alive, for
it does not change. It is
just like your tape-recorder. It records, it reproduces -- all by itself. You on
ly listen. Similarly, I watch
all that happens, including my talking to you. It is not me who talks, the words
appear in my mind
and then I hear them said.
Q: Is it not the case with everybody?
M: Who said no? But you insist that you think, you speak, while to me there is t
hinking, there is
speaking.
Q: There are two cases to consider. Either I have found a Guru, or I have not. I
n each case what is
the right thing to do?
M: You are never without a Guru, for he is timelessly present in your heart. Som
etimes he
externalises himself and comes to you as an uplifting and reforming factor in yo
ur life, a mother, a
wife, a teacher; or he remains as an inner urge toward righteousness and perfect
ion. All you have to
do is obey him and do what he tells you. What he wants you to do is simple, lear
n self-awareness,
self-control, self-surrender. It may seem arduous, but it is easy if you are ear
nest. And quite
impossible if you are not. Earnestness is both necessary and sufficient. Everyth
ing yields to
earnestness.
Q: What makes one earnest?
M: Compassion is the foundation of earnestness. Compassion for yourself and othe
rs, born of
suffering, your own and others.
Q: Must I suffer to be earnest?
M: You need not, if you are sensitive and respond to the suffering of others, as
Buddha did. But if
you are callous and without pity, your own suffering will make you ask the inevi
table questions.
Q: I find myself suffering, but not enough. Life is unpleasant, but bearable. My
little pleasures
compensate me for my small pains and on the whole I am better off than most of t
he people I know.
I know that my condition is precarious, that a calamity can overtake me any mome
nt. Must I wait for
a crisis to put me on my way to truth?
M: The moment you have seen how fragile is your condition, you are already alert
. Now, keep alert,
give attention, enquire, investigate, discover your mistakes of mind and body an
d abandon them.
Q: Where is the energy to come from? I am like a paralysed man in a burning hous
e.
M: Even paralysed people sometimes find their legs in a moment of danger! But yo
u are not
paralysed, you merely imagine so. Make the first step and you will be on your wa
y.
Q: I feel my hold on the body is so strong that I just cannot give up the idea t
hat I am the body. It
will cling to me as long as the body lasts. There are people who maintain that n
o realisation is
possible while alive and I feel inclined to agree with them.
M: Before you agree or disagree, why not investigate the very idea of a body? Do
es the mind
appear in the body or the body in the mind? Surely there must be a mind to conce
ive the I-am-the-
body idea. A body without a mind cannot be my body . My body is invariably absent when
the
mind is in abeyance. It is also absent when the mind is deeply engaged in though
ts and feelings.
Once you realise that the body depends on the mind, and the mind on consciousnes
s, and
consciousness on awareness and not the other way round, your question about wait
ing for self-
realisation till you die is answered. It is not that you must be free from I-am-t
he-body idea first, and
then realise the self. It is definitely the other way round -- you cling to the
false, because you do not
know the true. Earnestness, not perfection, is a precondition to self-realisatio
n. Virtues and powers
come with realisation, not before.
85. I am : The Foundation of all Experience
Questioner: I hear you making statements about yourself like: I am timeless, immu
table beyond
attributes , etc. How do you know these things? And what makes you say them?
Maharaj: I am only trying to describe the state before the I am arose, but the sta
te itself, being
beyond the mind and language, is indescribable.
Q: The I am is the foundation of all experience. What you are trying to describe m
ust also be an
experience, limited and transitory. You speak of yourself as immutable. I hear t
he sound of the
word, I remember its dictionary meaning, but the experience of being immutable I
do not have. How
can I break through the barrier and know personally, intimately, what it means t
o be immutable?
M: The word itself is the bridge. Remember it, think of it, explore it, go round
it, look at it from all
directions, dive into it with earnest perseverance: endure all delays and disapp
ointments till
suddenly the mind turns round, away from the word, towards the reality beyond th
e word. It is like
trying to find a person knowing his name only. A day comes when your enquiries b
ring you to him
and the name becomes reality. Words are valuable, for between the word and its m
eaning there is a
link and if one investigates the word assiduously, one crosses beyond the concep
t into the
experience at the root of it. As a matter of fact, such repeated attempts to go
beyond the words is
called meditation. Sadhana is but a persistent attempt to cross over from the ve
rbal to the non-
verbal. The task seems hopeless until suddenly all becomes clear and simple and
so wonderfully
easy. But, as long as you are interested in your present way of living, you will
shirk from the final
leap into the unknown.
Q: Why should the unknown interest me? Of what use is the unknown?
M: Of no use whatsoever. But it is worthwhile to know what keeps you within the
narrow confines of
the known. It is the full and correct knowledge of the known that takes you to t
he unknown. You
cannot think of it in terms of uses and advantages; to be quite detached, beyond
the reach of all self-
concern, all selfish consideration, is an inescapable condition of liberation. Y
ou may call it death; to
me it is living at its most meaningful and intense, for I am one with life in it
s totality and fullness --
intensity, meaningfulness, harmony; what more do you want?
Q: Nothing more is needed, of course. But you are talking of the knowable.
M: Of the unknowable only silence talks. The mind can talk only of what it knows
. If you diligently
investigate the knowable, it dissolves and only the unknowable remains. But with
the first flicker of
imagination and interest the unknowable is obscured and the known comes to the f
ore-front. The
known, the changeable, is what you live with -- the unchangeable is of no use to
you. It is only when
you are satiated with the changeable and long for the unchangeable, that you are
ready for the
turning round and stepping into what can be described, when seen from the level
of the mind, as
emptiness and darkness. For the mind craves for content and variety, while reali
ty is, to the mind,
contentless and invariable.
Q: It looks like death to me.
M: It is. It is also all-pervading, all-conquering, intense beyond words. No ord
inary brain can stand
it without being shattered; hence the absolute need for sadhana. Purity of body
and clarity of mind,
non-violence and selflessness in life are essential for survival as an intellige
nt and spiritual entity.
Q: Are there entities in reality?
M: Identity is Reality, Reality is identity. Reality is not shapeless mass, a wo
rdless chaos. It is
powerful, aware, blissful; compared to it your life is like a candle to the sun.
Q: By the grace of God and your teacher s you lost all desire and fear and reached
the immovable
state. My question is simple -- how do you know that your state is immovable?
M: Only the changeable can be thought of and talked about. The unchangeable can
only be
realised in silence. Once realised, it will deeply affect the changeable, itself
remaining unaffected.
Q: How do you know that you are the witness?
M: I do not know, I am. I am, because to be everything must be witnessed.
Q: Existence can also be accepted on hearsay.
M: Still, finally you come to the need of a direct witness. Witnessing, if not p
ersonal and actual,
must at least be possible and feasible. Direct experience is the final proof.
Q: Experience may be faulty and misleading.
M: Quite, but not the fact of an experience. Whatever may be the experience, tru
e or false, the fact
of an experience taking place cannot be denied. It is its own proof. Watch yours
elf closely and you
will see that whatever be the content of consciousness, the witnessing of it doe
s not depend on the
content. Awareness is itself and does not change with the event. The event may b
e pleasant or
unpleasant, minor or important, awareness is the same. Take note of the peculiar
nature of pure
awareness, its natural self-identity, without the least trace of self-consciousn
ess, and go to the root
of it and you will soon realise that awareness is your true nature and nothing y
ou may be aware of,
you can call your own.
Q: Is not consciousness and its content one and the same?
M: Consciousness is like a cloud in the sky and the water drops are the content.
The cloud needs
the sun to become visible, and consciousness needs being focussed in awareness.
Q: Is not awareness a form of consciousness?
M: When the content is viewed without likes and dislikes, the consciousness of i
t is awareness. But
still there is a difference between awareness as reflected in consciousness and
pure awareness
beyond consciousness. Reflected awareness, the sense I am aware is the witness, wh
ile pure
awareness is the essence of reality. Reflection of the sun in a drop of water is
the reflection of the
sun, no doubt, but not the sun itself. Between awareness reflected in consciousn
ess as the witness
and pure awareness there is a gap, which the mind cannot cross.
Q: Does it not depend on the way you look at it? The mind says there is a differ
ence. The heart
says there is none.
M: Of course there is no difference. The real sees the real in the unreal. It is
the mind that creates
the unreal and it is the mind that sees the false as false.
Q: I understood that the experience of the real follows seeing the false as fals
e.
M: There is no such thing as the experience of the real. The real is beyond expe
rience. All
experience is in the mind. You know the real by being real.
Q: If the real is beyond words and mind, why do we talk so much about it?
M: For the joy of it, of course. The real is bliss supreme. Even to talk of it i
s happiness.
Q: I hear you talking of the unshakable and blissful. What is in your mind when
you use these
words?
M: There is nothing in my mind. As you hear the words, so do I hear them. The po
wer that makes
everything happen makes them also happen.
Q: But you are speaking, not me.
M: That is how it appears to you. As I see it, two body-minds exchange symbolic
noises. In reality
nothing happens.
Q: Listen Sir. I am coming to you because I am in trouble. I am a poor soul lost
in a world I do not
understand. I am afraid of Mother Nature who wants me to grow, procreate and die
. When I ask for
the meaning and purpose of all this, she does not answer. I have come to you bec
ause I was told
that you are kind and wise. You talk about the changeable as false and transient
and this I can
understand. But when you talk of the immutable, I feel lost. Not this, not that,
beyond knowledge, of
no use -- why talk of it all? Does it exist, or is it a concept only, a verbal op
posite to the changeable?
M: It is, it alone is. But in your present state it is of no use to you. Just li
ke the glass of water near
your bed if of no use to you, when you dream that you are dying of thirst in a d
esert. I am trying to
wake you up, whatever your dream.
Q: Please don t tell me that I am dreaming and that I will soon wake up. I wish it
were so. But I am
awake and in pain. You talk of a painless state, but you add that I cannot have
it in my present
condition. I feel lost.
M: Don t feel lost. I only say that to find the immutable and blissful you must gi
ve up your hold on
the mutable and painful. You are concerned with your own happiness and I am tell
ing you that there
is no such thing. Happiness is never your own, it is where the I is not. I do not
say it is beyond your
reach; you have only to reach out beyond yourself, and you will find it.
Q: If I have to go beyond myself, why did I get the I am idea in the first instanc
e?
M: The mind needs a centre to draw a circle. The circle may grow bigger and with
every increase
there will be a change in the sense I am . A man who took himself in hand, a Yogi,
will draw a
spiral, yet the centre will remain, however vast the spiral. A day comes when th
e entire enterprise is
seen as false and given up. The central point is no more and the universe become
s the centre.
Q: Yes, maybe. But what am I to do now?
M: Assiduously watch your ever-changing life, probe deeply into the motives beyo
nd your actions
and you will soon prick the bubble in which you are enclosed. A chic needs the s
hell to grow, but a
day comes when the shell must be broken. If it is not, there will be suffering a
nd death.
Q: Do you mean to say that if I do not take to Yoga, I am doomed to extinction?
M: There is the Guru who will come to your rescue. In the meantime be satisfied
with watching the
flow of your life; if your watchfulness is deep and steady, ever turned towards
the source, it will
gradually move upstream till suddenly it becomes the source. Put your awareness
to work, not your
mind. The mind is not the right instrument for this task. The timeless can be re
ached only by the
timeless. Your body and your mind are both subject to time; Only awareness is ti
meless, even in the
now. In awareness you are facing facts and reality is fond of facts.
Q: You rely entirely on my awareness to take me over and not on the Guru and God
.
M: God gives the body and the mind and the Guru shows the way to use them. But r
eturning to the
source is your own task.
Q: God has created me, he will look after me.
M: There are innumerable gods, each in his own universe. They create and re-crea
te eternally. Are
you going to wait for them to save you? What you need for salvation is already w
ithin your reach.
Use it. Investigate what you know to its very end and you will reach the unknown
layers of your
being. Go further and the unexpected will explode in you and shatter all.
Q: Does it mean death?
M: It means life -- at last.
86. The Unknown is the Home of the Real
Questioner: Who is the Guru and who is the supreme Guru?
Maharaj: All that happens in your consciousness is your Guru. And pure awareness
beyond
consciousness is the supreme Guru.
Q: My Guru is Sri Babaji. What is your opinion of him?
M: What a question to ask! The space in Bombay is asked what is its opinion of t
he space in
Poona. The names differ, but not the space. The word Babaji is merely as address.
Who lives
under the address? You ask questions when you are in trouble. Enquire who is giv
ing trouble and to
whom.
Q: I understand everybody is under the obligation to realise. Is it his duty, or
his destiny?
M: Realisation is of the fact that you are not a person. Therefore, it cannot be
the duty of the
person whose destiny is to disappear. Its destiny is the duty of him who imagine
s himself to be the
person. Find out who he is and the imagined person will dissolve. Freedom is fro
m something. What
are you to be free from? Obviously, you must be free from the person, you take y
ourself to be, for it
is the idea you have of yourself that keeps you in bondage.
Q: How is the person removed?
M: By determination. Understand that it must go and wish it to go -- it shall go
if you are earnest
about it. Somebody, anybody, will tell you that you are pure consciousness, not
a body-mind.
Accept it as a possibility and investigate earnestly. You may discover that it i
s not so, that you are
not a person bound in space and time. Think of the difference it would make!
Q: If I am not a person, then what am I?
M: Wet cloth looks, feels, smells differently as long as it is wet. When dry it
is again the normal
cloth. Water has left it and who can make out that it was wet? Your real nature
is not like what you
appear to be. Give up the idea of being a person, that is all. You need not beco
me what you are
anyhow. There is the identity of what you are and there is the person superimpos
ed on it. All you
know is the person, the identity -- which is not a person -- you do not know, fo
r you never doubted,
never asked yourself the crucial question -- Who am I . The identity is the witness
of the person and
sadhana consists in shifting the emphasis from the superficial and changeful per
son to the
immutable and ever-present witness.
Q: How is it that the question Who am I attracts me little? I prefer to spend my t
ime in the sweet
company of saints.
M: Abiding in your own being is also holy company. If you have no problem of suf
fering and release
from suffering, you will not find the energy and persistence needed for self-enq
uiry. You cannot
manufacture a crisis. It must be genuine.
Q: How does a genuine crisis happen?
M: It happens every moment, but you are not alert enough. A shadow on your neigh
bour s face, the
immense and all-pervading sorrow of existence is a constant factor in your life,
but you refuse to
take notice. You suffer and see others suffer, but you don t respond.
Q: What you say is true, but what can I do about it? Such indeed is the situatio
n. My helplessness
and dullness are a part of it.
M: Good enough. Look at yourself steadily -- it is enough. The door that locks y
ou in, is also the
door that lets you out. The I am is the door. Stay at it until it opens. As a matt
er of fact, it is open,
only you are not at it. You are waiting at the non-existent painted doors, which
will never open.
Q: Many of us were taking drugs at some time, and to some extent. People told us
to take drugs in
order to break through into higher levels of consciousness. Others advised us to
have abundant sex
for the same purpose. What is your opinion in the matter?
M: No doubt, a drug that can affect your brain can also affect your mind, and gi
ve you all the
strange experiences promised. But what are all the drugs compared to the drug th
at gave you this
most unusual experience of being born and living in sorrow and fear, in search o
f happiness, which
does not come, or does not last. You should enquire into the nature of this drug
and find an antidote.
Birth, life, death -- they are one. Find out what had caused them. Before you we
re born, you were
already drugged. What kind of drug was it? You may cure yourself of all diseases
, but if you are still
under the influence of the primordial drug, of what use are the superficial cure
s?
Q: Is it not karma that causes rebirth?
M: You may change the name, but the fact remains. What is the drug which you cal
l karma or
destiny? It made you believe yourself to be what you are not. What is it, and ca
n you be free of it?
Before you go further you must accept, at least as a working theory, that you ar
e not what you
appear to be, that you are under the influence of a drug. Then only will you hav
e the urge and the
patience to examine the symptoms and search for their common cause. All that a G
uru can tell you
is: My dear Sir, you are quite mistaken about yourself. You are not the person yo
u think yourself to
be. Trust nobody, not even yourself. Search, find out, remove and reject every as
sumption till you
reach the living waters and the rock of truth. Until you are free of the drug, a
ll your religions and
sciences, prayers and Yogas are of no use to you, for based on a mistake, they s
trengthen it. But if
you stay with the idea that you are not the body nor the mind, not even their wi
tness, but altogether
beyond, your mind will grow in clarity, your desires -- in purity, your actions
-- in charity and that
inner distillation will take you to another world, a world of truth and fearless
love. Resist your old
habits of feeling and thinking; keep on telling yourself: No, not so, it cannot b
e so; I am not like this,
I do not need it, I do not want it , and a day will surely come when the entire st
ructure of error and
despair will collapse and the ground will be free for a new life. After all, you
must remember, that all
your preoccupations with yourself are only in your waking hours and partly in yo
ur dreams; in sleep
all is put aside and forgotten. It shows how little important is your waking lif
e, even to yourself, that
merely lying down and closing the eyes can end it. Each time you go to sleep you
do so without the
least certainty of waking up and yet you accept the risk.
Q: When you sleep, are you conscious or unconscious?
M: I remain conscious, but not conscious of being a particular person.
Q: Can you give us the taste of the experience of self-realisation?
M: Take the whole of it! It is here for the asking. But you do not ask. Even whe
n you ask, you do
not take. Find out what prevents you from taking.
Q: I know what prevents -- my ego.
M: Then get busy with your ego -- leave me alone. As long as you are locked up w
ithin your mind,
my state is beyond your grasp.
Q: I find I have no more questions to ask.
M: Were you really at war with your ego, you would have put many more questions.
You are short
of questions because you are not really interested. At present you are moved by
the pleasure-pain
principle which is the ego. You are going along with the ego, you are not fighti
ng it. You are not
even aware how totally you are swayed by personal considerations. A man should a
lways revolt
against himself, for the ego, like a crooked mirror, narrows down and distorts.
It is the worst of all
the tyrants, it dominates you absolutely.
Q: When there is no I who is free?
M: The world is free of a mighty nuisance. Good enough.
Q: Good for whom?
M: Good for everybody. It is like a rope stretched across the street, it snarls
up the traffic. Roll up, it
is there, as mere identity, useful when needed. Freedom from the ego-self is the
fruit of self-enquiry.
Q: There was a time when I was most displeased with myself. Now I have met my Gu
ru and I am
at peace, after having surrendered myself to him completely.
M: If you watch your daily life you will see that you have surrendered nothing.
You have merely
added the word surrender to your vocabulary and made your Guru into a peg to hang
your
problems on. Real surrender means doing nothing, unless prompted by your Guru. Y
ou step, so to
say, aside and let your Guru live your life. You merely watch and wonder how eas
ily he solves the
problems which to you seemed insoluble.
Q: As I sit here, I see the room, the people. I see you too. How does it look at
your end? What do
you see?
M: Nothing. I look, but I do not see in the sense of creating images clothed wit
h judgements. I do
not describe nor evaluate. I look, I see you, but neither attitude nor opinion c
loud my vision. And
when I turn my eyes away, my mind does not allow memory to linger; it is at once
free and fresh for
the next impression.
Q: As I am here, looking at you, I cannot locate the event in space and time. Th
ere is something
eternal and universal about the transmission of wisdom that is taking place. Ten
thousand years
earlier, or later, make no difference -- the event itself is timeless.
M: Man does not change much over the ages. Human problems remain the same and ca
ll for the
same answers. Your being conscious of what you call transmission of wisdom shows
that wisdom
has not yet been transmitted. When you have it, you are no longer conscious of i
t. What is really
your own, you are not conscious of. What you are conscious of is neither you nor
yours. Yours is
the power of perception, not what you perceive. It is a mistake to take the cons
cious to be the whole
of man. Man is the unconscious, conscious and the super-conscious, but you are n
ot the man.
Yours is the cinema screen, the light as well as the seeing power, but the pictu
re is not you.
Q: Must I search for the Guru, or shall I stay with whomever I have found?
M: The very question shows that you have not yet found one. As long as you have
not realised,
you will move from Guru to Guru, but when you have found yourself, the search wi
ll end. A Guru is
a milestone. When you are on the move, you pass so many milestones. When you hav
e reached
your destination, it is the last alone that mattered. In reality all mattered at
their own time and none
matters now.
Q: You seem to give no importance to the Guru. He is merely an incident among ot
hers.
M: All incidents contribute, but none is crucial. On the road each step helps yo
u reach your
destination, and each is as crucial as the other, for each step must be made, yo
u cannot skip it. If
you refuse to make it, you are stuck!
Q: Everybody sings the glories of the Guru, while you compare him to a milestone
. Don t we need
a Guru?
M: Don t we need a milestone? Yes and no. Yes, if we are uncertain, no if we know
our way. Once
we are certain in ourselves, the Guru is no longer needed, except in a technical
sense. Your mind is
an instrument, after all, and you should know how to use it. As you are taught t
he uses of your
body, so you should know how to use your mind.
Q: What do I gain by learning to use my mind?
M: You gain freedom from desire and fear, which are entirely due to wrong uses o
f the mind. Mere
mental knowledge is not enough. The known is accidental, the unknown is the home
 of the real. To
live in the known is bondage, to live in the unknown is liberation.
Q: I have understood that all spiritual practice consists in the elimination of
the personal self. Such
practice demands iron determination and relentless application. Where to find th
e integrity and
energy for such work?
M: You find it in the company of the wise?
Q: How do I know who is wise and who is merely clever?
M: If your motives are pure, if you seek truth and nothing else, you will find t
he right people. Finding
them is easy, what is difficult is to trust them and take full advantage of thei
r advice and guidance.
Q: Is the waking state more important for spiritual practice than sleep?
M: On the whole we attach too much importance, to the waking state. Without slee
p the waking
state would be impossible; without sleep one goes mad or dies; why attach so muc
h importance to
waking consciousness, which is obviously dependent on the unconscious? Not only
the conscious
but the unconscious as well should be taken care of in our spiritual practice.
Q: How does one attend to the unconscious?
M: Keep the I am in the focus of awareness, remember that you are, watch yourself
ceaselessly
and the unconscious will flow into the conscious without any special effort on y
our part. Wrong
desires and fears, false ideas, social inhibitions are blocking and preventing i
ts free interplay with
the conscious. Once free to mingle, the two become one and the one becomes all.
The person
merges into the witness, the witness into awareness, awareness into pure being,
yet identity is not
lost, only its limitations are lost. It is transfigured, and becomes the real Se
lf, the sadguru, the
eternal friend and guide. You cannot approach it in worship. No external activit
y can reach the inner
self; worship and prayers remain on the surface only; to go deeper meditation is
essential, the
striving to go beyond the states of sleep, dream and waking. In the beginning th
e attempts are
irregular, then they recur more often, become regular, then continuous and inten
se, until all
obstacles are conquered.
Q: Obstacles to what?
M: To self-forgetting.
Q: If worship and prayers are ineffectual why do you worship daily, with songs a
nd music, the
image of your Guru!
M: Those who want it, do it. I see no purpose in interfering.
Q: But you take part in it.
M: Yes, it appears so. But why be so concerned with me? Give all your attention
to the question:
What is it that makes me conscious? , until your mind becomes the question itself a
nd cannot think
of anything else.
Q: All and sundry are urging me to meditate. I find no zest in meditation, but I
am interested in
many other things; some I want very much and my mind goes to them; my attempts a
t meditation
are so half-hearted. What am I to do?
M: Ask yourself: To whom it all happens? Use everything as an opportunity to go wi
thin. Light your
way by burning up obstacles in the intensity of awareness. When you happen to de
sire or fear, it is
not the desire or fear that are wrong and must go, but the person who desires an
d fears. There is
no point in fighting desires and fears which may be perfectly natural and justif
ied; It is the person,
who is swayed by them, that is the cause of mistakes, past and future. The perso
n should be
carefully examined and its falseness seen; then its power over you will end. Aft
er all, it subsides
each time you go to sleep. In deep sleep you are not a self-conscious person, ye
t you are alive.
When you are alive and conscious, but no longer self-conscious, you are not a pe
rson anymore.
During the waking hours you are, as if, on the stage, playing a role, but what a
re you when the play
is over? You are what you are; what you were before the play began you remain wh
en it is over.
Look at yourself as performing on the stage of life. The performance may be sple
ndid or clumsy, but
you are not in it, you merely watch it; with interest and sympathy, of course, b
ut keeping in mind all
the time that you are only watching while the play -- life -- is going on.
Q: You are always stressing the cognition aspect of reality. You hardly ever men
tion affection, and
will -- never?
M: Will, affection, bliss, striving and enjoying are so deeply tainted with the
personal, that they
cannot be trusted. The clarification and purification needed at the very start o
f the journey, only
awareness can give. Love and will shall have their turn, but the ground must be
prepared. The sun
of awareness must rise first -- all else will follow.
87. Keep the Mind Silent and You shall Discover
Questioner: Once I had a strange experience. I was not, nor was the world, there
was only light --
within and without -- and immense peace. This lasted for four days and then I re
turned to the every-
day consciousness.
Now I have a feeling that all I know is merely a scaffolding, covering and hidin
g the building under
construction. The architect, the design, the plans, the purpose -- nothing I kno
w; some activity is
going on, things are happening; that is all I can say. I am that scaffolding, so
me thing very flimsy
and short-lived; when the building is ready, the scaffolding will be dismantled
and removed. The I
am and the What am I are of no importance, because once the building is ready, the I
will go as a
matter of course, leaving no questions about itself to answer.
Maharaj: Are you not aware of all this? Is not the fact of awareness the constan
t factor?
Q: My sense of permanency and identity is due to memory, which is so evanescent
and unreliable.
How little I remember, even of the recent past! I have lived a life-time, and no
w what is left with me?
A bundle of events, at best a short story.
M: All this takes place within your consciousness.
Q: Within and without. In daytime -- within; in the night -- without. Consciousn
ess is not all. So
many things happen beyond its reach. To say that what I am not conscious of does
not exist, is
altogether wrong.
M: What you say is logical, but actually you know only what is in your conscious
ness. What you
claim exists outside conscious experience is inferred.
Q: It may be inferred and yet it is more real than the sensory.
M: Be careful. The moment you start talking you create a verbal universe, a univ
erse of words,
ideas, concepts and abstractions, interwoven and inter-dependent, most wonderful
ly generating,
supporting and explaining each other and yet all without essence or substance, m
ere creations of
the mind. Words create words, reality is silent.
Q: When you talk, I hear you. Is it not a fact?
M: That you hear is a fact. What you hear -- is not. The fact can be experienced
, and in that sense
the sound of the word and the mental ripples it causes are experienced. There is
no other reality
behind it. Its meaning is purely conventional, to be remembered; a language can
be easily
forgotten, unless practiced.
Q: If words have no reality in them why talk at all?
M: They serve their limited purpose of inter-personal communication. Words do no
t convey facts,
they signal them. Once you are beyond the person, you need no words.
Q: What can take me beyond the person? How to go beyond consciousness?
M: Words and questions come from the mind and hold you there. To go beyond the m
ind, you must
be silent and quiet. Peace and silence, silence and peace -- this is the way bey
ond. Stop asking
questions.
Q: Once I give up asking questions, what am I to do?
M: What can you do but wait and watch?
Q: What am I to wait for?
M: For the centre of your being to emerge into consciousness. The three states -
- sleeping,
dreaming and waking are all in consciousness, the manifested; what you call unco
nsciousness will
also be manifested -- in time; beyond consciousness altogether lies the unmanife
sted. And beyond
all, and pervading all, is the heart of being which beats steadily -- manifested
-unmanifested;
manifested-unmanifested (saguna-nirguna).
Q: On the verbal level it sounds all right. I can visualise myself as the seed o
f being, a point in
consciousness, with my sense I am pulsating, appearing and disappearing alternatel
y. But what
am I to do to realise it as a fact, to go beyond into the changeless, wordless R
eality?
M: You can do nothing. What time has brought about, time will take away.
Q: Why then all these exhortations to practice Yoga and seek reality? They make
me feel
empowered and responsible, while in fact it is time that does all.
M: This is the end of Yoga -- to realise independence. All that happens, happens
in and to the
mind, not to the source of the I am . Once you realise that all happens by itself,
(call it destiny, or
the will of God or mere accident), you remain as witness only, understanding and
enjoying, but not
perturbed.
Q: If I cease trusting words altogether, what will be my condition?
M: There is a season for trusting and for distrusting. Let the seasons do their
work, why worry?
Q: Somehow I feel responsible for what happens around me.
M: You are responsible only for what you can change. All you can change is only
your attitude.
There lies your responsibility.
Q: You are advising me to remain indifferent to the sorrows of others!
M: It is not that you are indifferent. All the sufferings of mankind do not prev
ent you from enjoying
your next meal. The witness is not indifferent. He is the fullness of understand
ing and compassion.
Only as the witness you can help another.
Q: All my life I was fed on words. The number of words I have heard and read go
into the billions.
Did it benefit me? Not at all!
M: The mind shapes the language and the language shapes the mind. Both are tools
, use them but
don t misuse them. Words can bring you only unto their own limit; to go beyond, yo
u must abandon
them. Remain as the silent witness only.
Q: How can I? The world disturbs me greatly.
M: It is because you think yourself big enough to be affected by the world. It i
s not so. You are so
small that nothing can pin you down. It is your mind that gets caught, not you.
Know yourself as you
are -- a mere point in consciousness, dimensionless and timeless. You are like t
he point of the
pencil -- by mere contact with you the mind draws its picture of the world. You
are single and simple
-- the picture is complex and extensive. Don t be misled by the picture -- remain
aware of the tiny
point -- which is everywhere in the picture.
What is, can cease to be; what is not, can come to be; but what neither is nor i
s not, but on which
being and non-being depend, is unassailable; know yourself to be the cause of de
sire and fear,
itself free from both.
Q: How am I the cause of fear?
M: All depends on you. It is by your consent that the world exists. Withdraw you
r belief in its reality
and it will dissolve like a dream. Time can bring down mountains; much more you,
who are the
timeless source of time. For without memory and expectation there can be no time
.
Q: Is the I am the Ultimate?
M: Before you can say: I am , you must be there to say it. Being need not be self-c
onscious. You
need not know to be, but you must be to know.
Q: Sir, I am getting drowned in a sea of words! I can see that all depends on ho
w the words are
out together, but there must be somebody to put them together -- meaningfully. B
y drawing words at
random the Ramayana, Mahabharata and Bhagavata could never be produced. The theo
ry of
accidental emergence is not tenable. The origin of the meaningful must be beyond
it. What is the
power that creates order out of chaos? Living is more than being, and consciousn
ess is more than
living. Who is the conscious living being?
M: Your question contains the answer: a conscious living being is a conscious li
ving being. The
words are most appropriate, but you do not grasp their full import. Go deep into
the meaning of the
words: being, living, conscious, and you will stop running in circles, asking qu
estions, but missing
answers. Do understand that you cannot ask a valid question about yourself, beca
use you do not
know whom you are asking about. In the question Who am I? the I is not known and the
question
can be worded as: I do not know what I mean by I What you are, you must find out. I
can only tell
you what you are not. You are not of the world, you are not even in the world. T
he world is not, you
alone are. You create the world in your imagination like a dream. As you cannot
separate the dream
from yourself, so you cannot have an outer world independent of yourself. You ar
e independent, not
the world. Don t be afraid of a world you yourself have created. Cease from lookin
g for happiness
and reality in a dream and you will wake up. You need not know why and how , there is
no end to
questions. Abandon all desires, keep your mind silent and you shall discover.
88. Knowledge by the Mind, is not True Knowledge
Questioner: Do you experience the three states of waking, dreaming and sleeping
just as we do, or
otherwise?
Maharaj: All the three states are sleep to me. My waking state is beyond them. A
s I look at you, you
all seem asleep, dreaming up words of your own. I am aware, for I imagine nothin
g. It is not
samadhi which is but a kind of sleep. It is just a state unaffected by the mind,
free from the past and
future. In your case it is distorted by desire and fear, by memories and hopes;
in mine it is as it is --
normal. To be a person is to be asleep.
Q: Between the body and pure awareness stands the inner organ , antahkarana, the sub
tle body ,
the mental body , whatever the name. Just as a whirling mirror converts sunlight in
to a manifold
pattern of streaks and colours, so does the subtle body convert the simple light
of the shining Self
into a diversified world. Thus I have understood your teaching. What I cannot gr
asp is how did this
subtle body arise in the first instance?
M: It is created with the emergence of the I am idea. The two are one.
Q: How did the I am appear?
M: In your world everything must have a beginning and an end. If it does not, yo
u call it eternal. In
my view there is no such thing as beginning or end -- these are all related to t
ime. Timeless being is
entirely in the now.
Q: The antahkarana, or the subtle body , is it real or unreal?
M: It is momentary. Real when present, unreal when over.
Q: What kind of reality? Is it momentary?
M: Call it empirical, or actual, or factual. It is the reality of immediate expe
rience, here and now,
which cannot be denied. You can question the description and the meaning, but no
t the event itself.
Being and non-being alternate and their reality is momentary. The Immutable Real
ity lies beyond
space and time. Realise the momentariness of being and non-being and be free fro
m both.
Q: Things may be transient, yet they are very much with us, in endless repetitio
n.
M: Desires are strong. It is desire that causes repetition. There is no recurren
ce where desire is not.
Q: What about fear?
M: Desire is of the past, fear is of the future. The memory of past suffering an
d the fear of its
recurrence make one anxious about the future.
Q: There is also fear of the unknown.
M: Who has not suffered is not afraid.
Q: We are condemned to fear?
M: Until we can look at fear and accept it as the shadow of personal existence,
as persons we are
bound to be afraid. Abandon all personal equations and you shall be free from fe
ar. It is not difficult.
Desirelessness comes on its own when desire is recognised as false. You need not
struggle with
desire. Ultimately, it is an urge to happiness, which is natural as long as ther
e is sorrow. Only see
that there is no happiness in what you desire.
Q: We settle for pleasure.
M: Each pleasure is wrapped in pain. You soon discover that you cannot have one
without the
other.
Q: There is the experiencer and there is his experience. What created the link b
etween the two?
M: Nothing created it. It is. The two are one.
Q: I feel there is a catch somewhere, but I do not know where.
M: The catch is in your mind, which insists on seeing duality where there is non
e.
Q: As I listen to you, my mind is all in the now and I am astonished to find mys
elf without questions.
M: You can know reality only when you are astonished.
Q: I can make out that the cause of anxiety and fear is memory. What are the mea
ns for putting an
end to memory?
M: Don t talk of means, there are no means. What you see as false, dissolves. It i
s the very nature
of illusion to dissolve on investigation. Investigate -- that is all. You cannot
destroy the false, for you
are creating it all the time. Withdraw from it, ignore it, go beyond, and it wil
l cease to be.
Q: Christ also speaks of ignoring evil and being child-like.
M: Reality is common to all. Only the false is personal.
Q: As I watch the sadhakas and enquire into the theories by which they live, I f
ind they have
merely replaced material cravings by spiritual ambitions. From what you tell us it
looks as if the
words: spiritual and ambition are incompatible. If spirituality implies freedom from
mbition, what
will urge the seeker on? The Yogis speak of the desire for liberation as essenti
al. Is it not the
highest form of ambition?
M: Ambition is personal, liberation is from the personal. In liberation both the
subject and the object
of ambition are no longer. Earnestness is not a yearning for the fruits of one s e
ndeavours. It is an
expression of an inner shift of interest away from the false, unessential, the p
ersonal.
Q: You told us the other day that we cannot even dream of perfection before real
isation, for the
Self is the source of all perfection and not the mind. If it is not excellence i
n virtue that is essential
for liberation, then what is?
M: Liberation is not the result of some means skilfully applied, nor of circumst
ances. It is beyond
the causal process. Nothing can compel it, nothing can prevent it.
Q: Then why are we not free here and now?
M: But we are free here and now . It is only the mind that imagines bondage.
Q: What will put an end to imagination?
M: Why should you want to put an end to it? Once you know your mind and its mira
culous powers,
and remove what poisoned it -- the idea of a separate and isolated person -- you
 just leave it alone
to do its work among things to which it is well suited. To keep the mind in its
own place and on its
own work is the liberation of the mind.
Q: What is the work of the mind?
M: The mind is the wife of the heart and the world their home -- to be kept brig
ht and happy.
Q: I have not yet understood why, if nothing stands in the way of liberation, it
does not happen
here and now.
M: Nothing stands in the way of your liberation and it can happen here and now,
but for your being
more interested in other things. And you cannot fight with your interests. You m
ust go with them,
see through them and watch them reveal themselves as mere errors of judgement an
d appreciation.
Q: Will it not help me if I go and stay with some great and holy man?
M: Great and holy people are always within your reach, but you do not recognise
them. How will
you know who is great and holy? By hearsay? Can you trust others in these matter
s, or even
yourself? To convince you beyond the shadow of doubt you need more than a commen
dation, more
even than a momentary rapture. You may come across a great and holy man or women
and not
even know for a long time your good fortune. The infant son of a great man for m
any years will not
know the greatness of his father. You must mature to recognise greatness and pur
ify your heart for
holiness. Or you will spend your time and money in vain and also miss what life
offers you. There
are good people among your friends -- you can learn much from them. Running afte
r saints is
merely another game to play. Remember yourself instead and watch your daily life
relentlessly. Be
earnest, and you shall not fail to break the bonds of inattention and imaginatio
n.
Q: Do you want me to struggle all alone?
M: You are never alone. There are powers and presences who serve you all the tim
e most
faithfully. You may or may not perceive them, nevertheless they are real and act
ive. When you
realise that all is in your mind and that you are beyond the mind, that you are
truly alone; then all is
you.
Q: What is omniscience? Is God omniscient? Are you omniscient? We hear the expre
ssion --
universal witness. What does it mean? Does self-realisation imply omniscience? O
r is it a matter of
specialised training?
M: To lose entirely all interest in knowledge results in omniscience. It is but
the gift of knowing what
needs to be known, at the right moment, for error-free action. After all, knowle
dge is needed for
action and if you act rightly, spontaneously, without bringing in the conscious,
so much the better.
Q: Can one know the mind of another person?
M: Know you own mind first. It contains the entire universe and with space to sp
are!
Q: Your working theory seems to be that the waking state is not basically differ
ent from dream and
the dreamless sleep. The three states are essentially a case of mistaken self-id
entification with the
body. Maybe it is true, but, I feel, it is not the whole truth.
M: Do not try to know the truth, for knowledge by the mind is not true knowledge
. But you can know
what is not true -- which is enough to liberate you from the false. The idea tha
t you know what is
true is dangerous, for it keeps you imprisoned in the mind. It is when you do no
t know, that you are
free to investigate. And there can be no salvation, without investigation, becau
se non-investigation
is the main cause of bondage.
Q: You say that the illusion of the world begins with the sense I am , but when I a
sk about the
origin of the sense I am , you answer that it has no origin, for on investigation i
t dissolves. What is
solid enough to build the world on cannot be mere illusion. The I am is the only c
hangeless factor I
am conscious of; how can it be false?
M: It is not the I am that is false, but what you take yourself to be. I can see,
beyond the least
shadow of doubt, that you are not what you believe yourself to be. Logic or no l
ogic, you cannot
deny the obvious. You are nothing that you are conscious of. Apply yourself dili
gently to pulling
apart the structure you have built in your mind. What the mind has done the mind
must undo.
Q: You cannot deny the present moment, mind or no mind. What is now, is. You may
question the
appearance, but not the fact. What is at the root of the fact?
M: The I am is at the root of all appearance and the permanent link in the success
ion of events
that we call life; but I am beyond the I am .
Q: I have found that the realised people usually describe their state in terms b
orrowed from their
religion. You happen to be a Hindu, so you talk of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and
use Hindu
approaches and imagery. Kindly tell us, what is the experience behind your words
? What reality do
they refer to?
M: It is my way of talking, a language I was taught to use.
Q: But what is behind the language?
M: How can I put it into words, except in negating them? Therefore, I use words
like timeless,
spaceless, causeless. These too are words, but as they are empty of meaning, the
y suit my
purpose.
Q: If they are meaningless, why use them?
M: Because you want words where no words apply.
Q: I can see your point. Again, you have robbed me of my question!
89. Progress in Spiritual Life
Questioner: We are two girls from England, visiting India. We know little about
Yoga and we are
here because we were told that spiritual teachers play an important role in Indi
an life.
Maharaj: You are welcome. There is nothing new you will find here. The work we a
re doing is
timeless. It was the same ten thousand years ago. Centuries roll on, but the hum
an problem does
not change -- the problem of suffering and the ending of suffering.
Q: The other day seven young foreigners have turned up asking for a place to sle
ep for a few
nights. They came to see their Guru who was lecturing in Bombay. I met him -- a
very pleasant
looking young man is he -- apparently very matter-of-fact and efficient, but wit
h an atmosphere of
peace and silence about him. His teaching is traditional with stress on karma Yo
ga, selfless work,
service of the Guru etc. Like the Gita, he says that selfless work will result i
n salvation. He is full of
ambitious plans: training workers who will start spiritual centres in many count
ries. It seems he
gives them not only the authority, but also the power to do the work in his name
.
M: Yes, there is such a thing as transmission of power.
Q: When I was with them I had a strange feeling of becoming invisible. The devot
ees, in their
surrender to their Guru surrendered me also! Whatever I did for them was their G
uru s doing and I
was not considered, except as a mere instrument. I was merely a tap to turn left
or right. There was
no personal relationship whatsoever. They tried a little to convert me to their
faith; as soon as they
felt resistance, they just dropped me from the field of their attention. Even be
tween themselves they
did not appear very much related; it is their common interest in their Guru that
kept them together. I
found it rather cold, almost inhuman. To consider oneself an instrument in God s h
ands is one thing;
to be denied all attention and consideration because all is God may lead to indiff
erence verging on
cruelty. After all, all wars are made in the name of God . The entire history of ma
nkind is a
succession of holy wars . One is never so impersonal as in war!
M: To insist, to resist, are contained in the will to be. Remove the will to be
and what remains?
Existence and non-existence relate to something in space and time; here and now,
there and then,
which again are in the mind. The mind plays a guessing game; it is ever uncertai
n; anxiety-ridden
and restless. You resent being treated as a mere instrument of some god, or Guru
, and insist on
being treated as a person, because you are not sure of your own existence and do
not want to give
up the comfort and assurance of a personality. You may not be what you believe y
ourself to be, but
it gives you continuity, your future flows into the present and becomes the past
without jolts. To be
denied personal existence is frightening, but you must face it and find your ide
ntity with the totality
of life. Then the problem of who is used by whom is no more.
Q: All the attention I got was an attempt to convert me to their faith. When I r
esisted they lost all
interest in me.
M: One does not become a disciple by conversion, or by accident. There is usuall
y an ancient link,
maintained through many lives and flowering as love and trust, without which the
re is no
discipleship.
Q: What made you decide to become a teacher?
M: I was made into one by being called so. Who am I to teach and whom? What I am
, you are, and
what you are -- I am. The I am is common to us all; beyond the I am there is the imm
ensity of light
and love. We do not see it because we look elsewhere; I can only point at the sk
y; seeing of the star
is your own work. Some take more time before they see the star, some take less;
it depends on the
clarity of their vision and their earnestness in search. These two must be their
own -- I can only
encourage.
Q: What am I expected to do when I become a disciple?
M: Each teacher has his own method, usually patterned on his Guru s teachings and
on the way he
himself has realised, and his own terminology as well. Within that framework adj
ustments to the
personality of the disciple are made. The disciple is given full freedom of thou
ght and enquiry and
encouraged to question to his heart s content. He must be absolutely certain of th
e standing and
competence of his Guru, otherwise his faith will not be absolute nor his action
complete. It is the
absolute in you that takes you to the absolute beyond you -- absolute truth, lov
e selflessness are
the decisive factors in self-realisation. With earnestness these can be reached.
Q: I understand one must give up one s family and possessions to become a disciple
.
M: It varies with the Guru. Some expect their mature disciples to become ascetic
s and recluses;
some encourage family life and duties. Most of them consider a model family life
more difficult than
renunciation, suitable for a personality more mature and better balanced. At the
early stages the
discipline of monastic life may be advisable. Therefore, in the Hindu culture st
udents up to the age
of 25 are expected to live like monks -- in poverty, chastity and obedience -- t
o give them a chance
to build a character able to meet the hardships and temptations of married life.
Q: Who are the people in this room? Are they your disciples?
M: Ask them. It is not on the verbal level that one becomes a disciple, but in t
he silent depths of
one s being. You do not become a disciple by choice; it is more a matter of destin
y than self-will. It
does not matter much who is the teacher -- they all wish you well. It is the dis
ciple that matters -- his
honesty and earnestness. The right disciple will always find the right teacher.
Q: I can see the beauty and feel the blessedness of a life devoted to search for
truth under a
competent and loving teacher. Unfortunately, we have to return to England.
M: Distance does not matter. If your desires are strong and true, they will moul
d your life for their
fulfilment. Sow you seed and leave it to the seasons.
Q: What are the signs of progress in spiritual life?
M: Freedom from anxiety; a sense of ease and joy; deep peace within and abundant
energy
without.
Q: How did you get it?
M: I found it all in the holy presence of my Guru -- I did nothing on my own. He
told me to be quiet
-- and I did it -- as much as I could.
Q: Is your presence as powerful as his?
M: How am I to know? For me -- his is the only presence. If you are with me, you
are with him.
Q: Each Guru will refer me to his own Guru. Where is the starting point?
M: There is a power in the universe working for enlightenment -- and liberation.
We call it
Sadashiva, who is ever present in the hearts of men. It is the unifying factor.
Unity -- liberates.
Freedom -- unites. Ultimately nothing is mine or yours -- everything is ours. Ju
st be one with
yourself and you will be one with all, at home in the entire universe.
Q: You mean to say that all these glories will come with the mere dwelling on th
e feeling I am ?
M: It is the simple that is certain, not the complicated. Somehow, people do not
trust the simple, the
easy, the always available. Why not give an honest trial to what I say? It may l
ook very small and
insignificant, but it is like a seed that grows into a mighty tree. Give yoursel
f a chance!
Q: I see so many people sitting here -- quietly. What for have they come?
M: To meet themselves. At home the world is too much with them. Here nothing dis
turbs them;
they have a chance to take leave of their daily worries and contact the essentia
l in themselves.
Q: What is the course of training in self-awareness?
M: There is no need of training. Awareness is always with you. The same attentio
n that you give to
the outer, you turn to the inner. No new, or special kind of awareness is needed
.
Q: Do you help people personally?
M: People come to discuss their problems. Apparently they derive some help, or t
hey would not
come.
Q: Are the talks with people always in public, or will you talk to them privatel
y also?
M: It is according to their wish. Personally, I make no distinction between publ
ic and private.
Q: Are you always available, or have you other work to do?
M: I am always available, but the hours in the morning and late afternoon are th
e most convenient.
Q: I understand that no work ranks higher than the work of a spiritual teacher.
M: The motive matters supremely.
90. Surrender to Your Own Self
Questioner: I was born in the United States, and the last fourteen months I have
spent in Sri
Ramanashram; now I am on my way back to the States where my mother is expecting
me.
Maharaj: What are your plans?
Q: I may qualify as a nurse, or just marry and have babies.
M: What makes you want to marry?
Q: providing a spiritual home is the highest form of social service I can think
of. But, of course, life
may shape otherwise. I am ready for whatever comes.
M: These fourteen months at Sri Ramanashram, what did they give you? In what way
are you
different from what you were when you arrived there?
Q: I am no longer afraid. I have found some peace.
M: What kind of peace is it? The peace of having what you want, or not wanting w
hat you do not
have?
Q: A little of both, I believe. It was not easy at all. While the Ashram is a ve
ry peaceful place,
inwardly I was in agonies.
M: When you realise that the distinction between inner and outer is in the mind
only, you are no
longer afraid.
Q: Such realisation comes and goes with me. I have not yet reached the immutabil
ity of absolute
completeness.
M: Well, as long as you believe so, you must go on with your sadhana, to dispers
e the false idea of
not being complete. Sadhana removes the super-impositions. When you realise your
self as less
than a point in space and time, something too small to be cut and too short-live
d to be killed, then,
and then only, all fear goes. When you are smaller than the point of a needle, t
hen the needle
cannot pierce you -- you pierce the needle!
Q: Yes, that is how I feel sometimes -- indomitable. I am more than fearless --
I am fearlessness
itself.
M: What made you go to the Ashram?
Q: I had an unhappy love affair and suffered hell. Neither drink nor drugs could
help me. I was
groping and came across some books on Yoga. From book to book, from clue to clue
-- I came to
Ramanashram.
M: Were the same tragedy to happen to you again, would you suffer as much, consi
dering your
present state of mind?
Q: Oh no, I would not let myself suffer again. I would kill myself.
M: So you are not afraid to die!
Q: I am afraid of dying, not of death itself. I imagine the dying process to be
painful and ugly.
M: How do you know? It need not be so. It may be beautiful and peaceful. Once yo
u know that
death happens to the body and not to you, you just watch your body falling off l
ike a discarded
garment.
Q: I am fully aware that my fear of death is due to apprehension and not knowled
ge.
M: Human beings die every second, the fear and the agony of dying hangs over the
world like a
cloud. No wonder you too are afraid. But once you know that the body alone dies
and not the
continuity of memory and the sense of I am reflected in it, you are afraid no long
er.
Q: Well, let us die and see.
M: Give attention and you will find that birth and death are one, that life puls
ates between being
and non-being, and that each needs the other for completeness. You are born to d
ie and you die to
be reborn.
Q: Does not detachment stop the process?
M: With detachment the fear goes, but not the fact.
Q: Shall I be compelled to be reborn? How dreadful!
M: There is no compulsion. You get what you want. You make your own plans and yo
u carry them
out.
Q: Do we condemn ourselves to suffer?
M: We grow through investigation, and to investigate we need experience. We tend
to repeat what
we have not understood. If we are sensitive and intelligent, we need not suffer.
Pain is a call for
attention and the penalty of carelessness. Intelligent and compassionate action
is the only remedy.
Q: It is because I have grown in intelligence that I would not tolerate my suffe
ring again. What is
wrong with suicide?
M: Nothing wrong, if it solves the problem. What, if it does not? Suffering caus
ed by extraneous
factors -- some painful and incurable disease, or unbearable calamity -- may pro
vide some
justification, but where wisdom and compassion are lacking, suicide cannot help.
 A foolish death
means foolishness reborn. Besides there is the question of karma to consider. En
durance is usually
the wisest course.
Q: Must one endure suffering, however acute and hopeless?
M: Endurance is one thing and helpless agony is another. Endurance is meaningful
and fruitful,
while agony is useless.
Q: Why worry about karma? It takes care of itself anyhow.
M: Most of our karma is collective. We suffer for the sins of others, as others
suffer for ours.
Humanity is one. Ignorance of this fact does not change it. We could have been m
uch happier
people ourselves, but for our indifference to the sufferings of others.
Q: I find I have grown much more responsive.
M: Good. When you say it, what do you have in mind? Yourself, as a responsive pe
rson within a
female body?
Q: There is a body and there is compassion and there is memory and a number of t
hings and
attitudes; collectively they may be called a person.
M: Including the I am idea?
Q: The I am is like a basket that holds the many things that make a person.
M: Or, rather, it is the willow of which the basket is woven. When you think of
yourself as a women,
do you mean that you are a women, or that your body is described as female?
Q: It depends on my mood. Sometimes I feel myself to be a mere centre of awarene
ss.
M: Or, an ocean of awareness. But are there moments when you are neither man nor
women, not
the accidental, occasioned by circumstances and conditions?
Q: Yes, there are, but I feel shy to talk about it.
M: A hint is all that one can expect. You need not say more.
Q: Am I allowed to smoke in your presence? I know that it is not the custom to s
moke before a
sage and more so for a women.
M: By all means, smoke, nobody will mind. We understand.
Q: I feel the need of cooling down.
M: It is very often so with Americans and Europeans. After a stretch of sadhana
they become
charged with energy and frantically seek an outlet. They organise communities, b
ecome teachers of
Yoga, marry, write books -- anything except keeping quiet and turning their ener
gies within, to find
the source of the inexhaustible power and learn the art of keeping it under cont
rol.
Q: I admit that now I want to go back and live a very active life, because I fee
l full of energy.
M: You can do what you like, as long as you do not take yourself to be the body
and the mind. It is
not so much a question of actual giving up the body and all that goes with it, a
s a clear
understanding that you are not the body. A sense of aloofness, of emotional non-
involvement.
Q: I know what you mean. Some four years ago I passed through a period of reject
ion of the
physical; I would not buy myself clothes, would eat the simplest foods, sleep on
bare planks. It is
the acceptance of the privations that matters, not the actual discomfort. Now I
have realised that
welcoming life as it comes and loving all it offers, is best of it. I shall acce
pt with glad heart whatever
comes and make the best of it. If I can do nothing more than give life and true
culture to a few
children -- good enough; though my heart goes out to every child, I cannot reach
all.
M: You are married and a mother only when you are man-women conscious. When you
do not
take yourself to be the body, then the family life of the body, however intense
and interesting, is
seen only as a play on the screen of the mind, with the light of awareness as th
e only reality.
Q: Why do you insist on awareness as the only real? Is not the object of awarene
ss as real, while
it lasts?
M: But it does not last! Momentary reality is secondary; it depends on the timel
ess.
Q: Do you mean continuous, or permanent?
M: There can be no continuity in existence. Continuity implies identity in past,
present and future.
No such identity is possible, for the very means of identification fluctuate and
change. Continuity,
permanency, these are illusions created by memory, mere mental projections of a
pattern where no
pattern can be; Abandon all ideas of temporary or permanent, body or mind, man o
r women; what
remains? What is the state of your mind when all separation is given up? I am no
t talking of giving
up distinctions, for without them there is no manifestation.
Q: When I do not separate, I am happily at peace. But somehow I lose my bearings
again and
again and begin to seek happiness in outer things. Why is my inner peace not ste
ady, I cannot
understand.
M: Peace, after all, is also a condition of the mind.
Q: Beyond the mind is silence. There is nothing to be said about it.
M: Yes, all talk about silence is mere noise.
Q: Why do we seek worldly happiness, even after having tasted one s own natural sp
ontaneous
happiness?
M: When the mind is engaged in serving the body, happiness is lost. To regain it
, it seeks pleasure.
The urge to be happy is right, but the means of securing it are misleading, unre
liable and
destructive of true happiness.
Q: Is pleasure always wrong?
M: The right state and use of the body and the mind are intensely pleasant. It i
s the search for
pleasure that is wrong. Do not try to make yourself happy, rather question your
very search for
happiness. It is because you are not happy that you want to be happy. Find out w
hy you are
unhappy. Because you are not happy you seek happiness in pleasure; pleasure brin
gs in pain and
therefore you call it worldly; you then long for some other pleasure, without pa
in, which you call
divine. In reality, pleasure is but a respite from pain. Happiness is both world
ly and unworldly, within
and beyond all that happens. Make no distinction, don t separate the inseparable a
nd do not
alienate yourself from life.
Q: How well I understand you now! Before my stay at Ramanashram I was tyrannised
by
conscience, always sitting in judgement of myself. Now I am completely relaxed,
fully accepting
myself as I am. When I return to the States, I shall take life as it comes, as B
hagavan s grace, and
enjoy the bitter along with the sweet. This is one of the things I have learnt i
n the Ashram -- to trust
Bhagavan. I was not like this before. I could not trust.
M: Trusting Bhagavan is trusting yourself. Be aware that whatever happens, happe
ns to you, by
you, through you, that you are the creator, enjoyer and destroyer of all you per
ceive and you will not
be afraid. Unafraid, you will not be unhappy, nor will you seek happiness.
In the mirror of your mind all kinds of pictures appear and disappear. Knowing t
hat they are entirely
your own creations, watch them silently come and go, be alert, but not perturbed
. This attitude of
silent observation is the very foundation of Yoga. You see the picture, but you
are not the picture.
Q: I find that the thought of death frightens me because I do not want to be reb
orn. I know that
none compels, yet the pressure of unsatisfied desires is overwhelming and I may
not be able to
resist.
M: The question of resistance does not arise. What is born and reborn is not you
. Let it happen,
watch it happen.
Q: Why then be at all concerned?
M: But you are concerned! And you will be concerned as long as the picture clash
es with your own
sense of truth, love and beauty. The desire for harmony and peace is in eradicab
le. But once it is
fulfilled, the concern ceases and physical life becomes effortless and below the
level of attention.
Then, even in the body you are not born. To be embodied or bodyless is the same
to you. You
reach a point when nothing can happen to you. Without body, you cannot be killed
; without
possessions you cannot be robbed; without mind, you cannot be deceived. There is
no point where
a desire or fear can hook on. As long as no change can happen to you, what else
matters?
Q: Somehow I do not like the idea of dying.
M: It is because you are so young. The more you know yourself the less you are a
fraid. Of course,
the agony of dying is never pleasant to look at, but the dying man is rarely con
scious.
Q: Does he return to consciousness?
M: It is very much like sleep. For a time the person is out of focus and then it
returns.
Q: The same person?
M: The person, being a creature of circumstances, necessarily changes along with
them, like the
flame that changes with the fuel. Only the process goes on and on, creating time
and space.
Q: Well, God will look after me. I can leave everything to Him.
M: Even faith in God is only a stage on the way. Ultimately you abandon all, for
you come to
something so simple that there are no words to express it.
Q: I am just beginning. At the start I had no faith, no trust; I was afraid to l
et things happen. The
world seemed to be a very dangerous and inimical place. Now, at least I can talk
of trusting the
Guru or God. Let me grow. Don t drive me on. Let me proceed at my own pace.
M: By all means proceed. But you don t. You are still stuck in the ideas of man an
d women, old and
young, life and death. Go on, go beyond. A thing recognised is a thing transcend
ed.
Q: Sir, wherever I go people take it to be their duty to find faults with me and
goad me on. I am fed
up with this spiritual fortune making. What is wrong with my present that it sho
uld be sacrificed to a
future, however glorious? You say reality is in the now. I want it. I do not wan
t to be eternally
anxious about my stature and its future. I do not want to chase the more and the
better. Let me love
what I have.
M: You are quite right; do it. Only be honest -- just love what you love -- don t
strive and strain.
Q: This is what I call surrender to the Guru.
M: Why exteriorise? Surrender to your own self, of which everything is an expres
sion.
91. Pleasure and Happiness
Questioner: A friend of mine, a young man about twenty-five, was told that he is
suffering from an
incurable heart disease. He wrote to me that instead of slow death he preferred
suicide. I replied to
him that a disease incurable by Western medicine may be cured in some other way.
There are
yogic powers that can bring almost instantaneous changes in the human body. Effe
cts of repeated
fasting also verge on the miraculous. I wrote to him not to be in a hurry to die
; rather to give a trial to
other approaches.
There is a Yogi living not far from Bombay who possesses some miraculous powers.
He has
specialised in the control of the vital forces governing the body. I met some of
his disciples and sent
through to the Yogi my friend s letter and photo. Let us see what happens.
Maharaj: Yes, miracles often take place. But there must be the will to live. Wit
hout it the miracles
will not happen.
Q: Can such a desire be instilled?
M: Superficial desire, yes. But it will wear out. Fundamentally, nobody can comp
el another to live.
Besides, there were cultures in which suicide had its acknowledged and respected
place.
Q: Is it not obligatory to live out one s natural span of life?
M: Natural -- spontaneously -- easy -- yes. But disease and suffering are not na
tural. There is noble
virtue in unshakable endurance of whatever comes, but there is also dignity in t
he refusal of
meaningless torture and humiliation.
Q: I was given a book written by a siddha. He describes in it many of his strang
e, even amazing
experiences. According to him the way of a true sadhaka ends with his meeting hi
s Guru and
surrendering to him body, mind and heart. Henceforth the Guru takes over and bec
omes
responsible for even the least event in the disciple s life, until the two become
one. One may call it
realisation through identification. The disciple is taken over by a power he can
not control, nor resist,
and feels as helpless as a leaf in the storm. The only thing that keeps him safe
from madness and
death is his faith in the love and power of his Guru.
M: Every teacher teaches according to his own experience. Experience is shaped b
y belief and
belief is shaped by experience. Even the Guru is shaped by the disciple to his o
wn image. It is the
disciple that makes the Guru great. Once the Guru is seen to be the agent of a l
iberating power,
which works both from within and without, whole-hearted surrender becomes natura
l and easy. Just
as a man gripped by pain puts himself completely in the hands of a surgeon, so d
oes the disciple
entrust himself without reservation to his Guru. It is quite natural to seek hel
p when its need is felt
acutely. But, however powerful the Guru may be, he should not impose his will on
the disciple. On
the other hand, a disciple that distrusts and hesitates is bound to remain unful
filled for no fault of his
Guru.
Q: What happens then?
M: Life teaches, where all else fails. But the lessons of life take a long time
to come. Much delay
and trouble is saved by trusting and obeying. But such trust comes only when ind
ifference and
restlessness give place to clarity and peace. A man who keeps himself in low est
eem, will not be
able to trust himself, nor anybody else. Therefore, in the beginning the teacher
tries his best to
reassure the disciple as to his high origin, noble nature and glorious destiny.
He relates to him the
experiences of some saints as well as his own, instilling confidence in himself
and in his infinite
possibilities. When self-confidence and trust in the teacher come together, rapi
d and far-going
changes in the disciple s character and life can take place.
Q: I may not want to change. My life is good enough as it is.
M: You say so because you have not seen how painful is the life you live. You ar
e like a child
sleeping with a lollypop in its mouth. You may feel happy for a moment by being
totally self-centred,
but it is enough to have a good look at human faces to perceive the universality
of suffering. Even
your own happiness is so vulnerable and short-lived, at the mercy of a bank-cras
h, or a stomach
ulcer. It is just a moment of respite, a mere gap between two sorrows. Real happ
iness is not
vulnerable, because it does not depend on circumstances.
Q: Are you talking from your own experience? Are you too unhappy?
M: I have no personal problems. But the world is full of living beings whose liv
es are squeezed
between fear and craving. They are like cattle driven to the slaughter house, ju
mping and frisking,
carefree and happy, yet dead and skinned within an hour.
You say you are happy. Are you really happy, or are you merely trying to convinc
e yourself. Look at
yourself fearlessly and you will at once realise that your happiness depends on
conditions and
circumstances, hence it is momentary, not real. Real happiness flows from within
.
Q: Of what use is your happiness to me? It does not make me happy.
M: You can have the whole of it and more for the mere asking. But you do not ask
; you don t seem
to want.
Q: Why do you say so? I do want to be happy.
M: You are quite satisfied with pleasures. There is no place for happiness. Empt
y your cup and
clean it. It cannot be filled otherwise. Others can give you pleasure, but never
happiness.
Q: A chain of pleasurable events is good enough.
M: Soon it ends in pain, if not in disaster. What is Yoga after all, but seeking
lasting happiness
within?
Q: You can speak only for the East. In the West the conditions are different and
what you say
does not apply.
M: There is no East and West in sorrow and fear. The problem is universal -- suf
fering and the
ending of suffering. The cause of suffering is dependence and independence is th
e remedy. Yoga is
the science and the art of self-liberation through self-understanding.
Q: I do not think I am fit for Yoga.
M: What else are you fit for? All your going and coming, seeking pleasure, lovin
g and hating -- all
this shows that you struggle against limitations, self-imposed or accepted. In y
our ignorance you
make mistakes and cause pain to yourself and others, but the urge is there and s
hall not be denied.
The same urge that seeks birth, happiness and death shall seek understanding and
liberation. It is
like a spark of fire in a cargo of cotton. You may not know about it, but sooner
or later the ship will
burst in flames. Liberation is a natural process and in the long run, inevitable
. But it is within your
power to bring it into the now.
Q: Then why are so few liberated people in the world?
M: In a forest only some of the trees are in full bloom at a given moment, yet e
very one will have its
turn.
Sooner or later your physical and mental resources will come to an end. What wil
l you do then?
Despair? All right, despair. You will get tired of despairing and begin to quest
ion. At that moment
you will be fit for conscious Yoga.
Q: I find all this seeking and brooding most unnatural.
M: Yours is the naturalness of a born cripple. You may be unaware but it does no
t make you
normal. What it means to be natural or normal you do not know, nor do you know t
hat you do not
know.
At present you are drifting and therefore in danger, for to a drifter any moment
anything may
happen. It would be better to wake up and see your situation. That you are -- yo
u know. What you
are -- you don't know. Find out what you are.
Q: Why is there so much suffering in the world?
M: Selfishness is the cause of suffering. There is no other cause.
Q: I understood that suffering is inherent in limitation.
M: Differences and distinctions are not the causes of sorrow. Unity in diversity
is natural and good.
It is only with separateness and self-seeking that real suffering appears in the
world.
92. Go Beyond the l-am-the-body Idea
Questioner: We are like animals, running about in vain pursuits and there seems
to be no end to it.
Is there a way out?
Maharaj: Many ways will be offered to you which will but take you round and brin
g you back to your
starting point. First realise that your problem exists in your waking state only
, that however painful it
is, you are able to forget it altogether when you go to sleep. When you are awak
e you are
conscious; when you are asleep, you are only alive. Consciousness and life -- bo
th you may call
God; but you are beyond both, beyond God, beyond being and not-being. What preve
nts you from
knowing yourself as all and beyond all, is the mind based on memory. It has powe
r over you as long
as you trust it; don't struggle with it; just disregard it. Deprived of attentio
n, it will slow down and
reveal the mechanism of its working. Once you know its nature and purpose, you w
ill not allow it to
create imaginary problems.
Q: Surely, not all problems are imaginary. There are real problems.
M: What problems can there be which the mind did not create? Life and death do n
ot create
problems; pains and pleasures come and go, experienced and forgotten. It is memo
ry and
anticipation that create problems of attainment or avoidance, coloured by like a
nd dislike. Truth and
love are man's real nature and mind and heart are the means of its expression.
Q: How to bring the mind under control? And the heart, which does not know what
it wants?
M: They cannot work in darkness. They need the light of pure awareness to functi
on rightly. All
effort at control will merely subject them to the dictates of memory. Memory is
a good servant, but a
bad master. It effectively prevents discovery. There is no place for effort in r
eality. It is selfishness,
due to a self-identification with the body, that is the main problem and the cau
se of all other
problems. And selfishness cannot be removed by effort, only by clear insight int
o its causes and
effects. Effort is a sign of conflict between incompatible desires. They should
be seen as they are --
then only they dissolve.
Q: And what remains?
M: That which cannot change, remains. The great peace, the deep silence, the hid
den beauty of
reality remain. While it can not be conveyed through words, it is waiting for yo
u to experience for
yourself.
Q: Must not one be fit and eligible for realisation? Our nature is animal to the
core. Unless it is
conquered, how can we hope for reality to dawn?
M: Leave the animal alone. Let it be. Just remember what you are. Use every inci
dent of the day to
remind you that without you as the witness there would be neither animal nor God
. Understand that
you are both, the essence and the substance of all there is. and remain firm in
your understanding.
Q: Is understanding enough? Don't I need more tangible proofs?
M: It is your understanding that will decide about the validity of proofs. But w
hat more tangible
proof do you need than your own existence? Wherever you go you find yourself. Ho
wever far you
reach out in time, you are there.
Q: Obviously, I am not all-pervading and eternal. I am only here and now.
M: Good enough. The 'here' is everywhere and the now -- always. Go beyond the 'I
-am-the-body'
idea and you will find that space and time are in you and not you in space and t
ime. Once you have
understood this, the main obstacle to realisation is removed.
Q: What is the realisation which is beyond understanding?
M: Imagine a dense forest full of tigers and you in a strong steel cage. Knowing
that you are well
protected by the cage, you watch the tigers fearlessly. Next you find the tigers
in the cage and
yourself roaming about in the jungle. Last -- the cage disappears and you ride t
he tigers!
Q: I attended one of the group meditation sessions, held recently in Bombay, and
witnessed the
frenzy and self-abandon of the participants. Why do people go for such things?
M: These are all inventions of a restless mind pampering to people in search of
sensations. Some
of them help the unconscious to disgorge suppressed memories and longings and to
that extent
they provide relief. But ultimately they leave the practitioner where he was --
or worse.
Q: I have read recently a book by a Yogi on his experiences in meditation. It is
full of visions and
sounds, colours and melodies; quite a display and a most gorgeous entertainment!
In the end they
all faded out and only the feeling of utter fearlessness remained. No wonder --
a man who passed
through all these experiences unscathed need not be afraid of anything! Yet I wa
s wondering of
what use is such book to me?
M: Of no use, probably, since it does not attract you. Others may be impressed.
People differ. But
all are faced with the fact of their own existence. 'I am' is the ultimate fact;
'Who am l?' is the
ultimate question to which everybody must find an answer.
Q: The same answer?
M: The same in essence, varied in expression.
Each seeker accepts, or invents, a method which suits him, applies it to himself
with some
earnestness and effort, obtains results according to his temperament and expecta
tions, casts them
into the mound of words, builds them into a system, establishes a tradition and
begins to admit
others into his 'school of Yoga'. It is all built on memory and imagination. No
such school is
valueless, nor indispensable; in each one can progress up to the point, when all
desire for progress
must be abandoned to make further progress possible. Then all schools are given
up, all effort
ceases; in solitude and darkness the vast step is made which ends ignorance and
fear forever.
The true teacher, however, will not imprison his disciple in a prescribed set of
ideas, feelings and
actions; on the contrary, he will show him patiently the need to be free from al
l ideas and set
patterns of behaviour, to be vigilant and earnest and go with life wherever it t
akes him, not to enjoy
or suffer, but to understand and learn.
Under the right teacher the disciple learns to learn, not to remember and obey.
Satsang, the
company of the noble, does not mould, it liberates. Beware of all that makes you
dependent. Most
of the so-called 'surrenders to the Guru' end in disappointment, if not in trage
dy. Fortunately, an
earnest seeker will disentangle himself in time, the wiser for the experience.
Q: Surely, self-surrender has its value.
M: Self-surrender is the surrender of all self-concern. It cannot be done, it ha
ppens when you
realise your true nature. Verbal self-surrender, even when accompanied by feelin
g, is of little value
and breaks down under stress. At the best it shows an aspiration, not an actual
fact.
Q: In the Rigveda there is the mention of the adhi yoga, the Primordial Yoga, co
nsisting of the
marriage of pragna with Prana, which, as I understand, means the bringing togeth
er of wisdom and
life. Would you say it means also the union of Dharma and Karma, righteousness a
nd action?
M: Yes, provided by righteousness you mean harmony with one's true nature and by
action -- only
unselfish and desireless action.
In adhi yoga life itself is the Guru and the mind -- the disciple. The mind atte
nds to life, it does not
dictate. Life flows naturally and effortlessly and the mind removes the obstacle
s to its even flow.
Q: Is not life by its very nature repetitive? Will not following life lead to st
agnation?
M: By itself life is immensely creative. A seed, in course of time, becomes a fo
rest. The mind is like
a forester -- protecting and regulating the immense vital urge of existence.
Q: Seen as the service of life by the mind, the adhi yoga is a perfect democracy
. Everyone is
engaged in living a life to his best capacity and knowledge, everyone is a disci
ple of the same Guru.
M: You may say so. It may be so -- potentially. But unless life is loved and tru
sted, followed with
eagerness and zest, it would be fanciful to talk of Yoga, which is a movement in
consciousness,
awareness in action.
Q: Once I watched a mountain-stream flowing between the boulders. At each boulde
r the
commotion was different, according to the shape and size of the boulder. Is not
every person a
mere commotion over a body, while life is one and eternal?
M: The commotion and the water are not separate. It is the disturbance that make
s you aware of
water. Consciousness is always of movement, of change. There can be no such thin
g as
changeless consciousness. Changelessness wipes out consciousness immediately. A
man
deprived of outer or inner sensations blanks out, or goes beyond consciousness a
nd
unconsciousness into the birthless and deathless state. Only when spirit and mat
ter come together
consciousness is born.
Q: Are they one or two?
M: It depends on the words you use: they are one, or two, or three. On investiga
tion three become
two and two become one. Take the simile of face -- mirror -- image. Any two of t
hem presuppose
the third which unites the two. In sadhana you see the three as two, until you r
ealise the two as one.
A long as you are engrossed in the world, you are unable to know yourself: to kn
ow yourself, turn
away your attention from the world and turn it within.
Q: I cannot destroy the world.
M: There is no need. Just understand that what you see is not what is. Appearanc
es will dissolve
on investigation and the underlying reality will come to the surface. You need n
ot burn the house to
get out of it. You just walk out. It is only when you cannot come and go freely
that the house
becomes a jail. I move in and out of consciousness easily and naturally and ther
efore to me the
world is a home, not a prison.
Q: But ultimately is there a world, or is there none?
M: What you see is nothing but your self. Call it what you like, it does not cha
nge the fact. Through
the film of destiny your own light depicts pictures on the screen. You are the v
iewer, the light, the
picture and the screen. Even the film of destiny (prarabdha) is self-selected an
d self-imposed. The
spirit is a sport and enjoys to overcome obstacles. The harder the task the deep
er and wider his self-
realisation.
93. Man is not the Doer
Questioner: From the beginning of my life I am pursued by a sense of incompleten
ess. From
school to college, to work, to marriage, to affluence, I imagined that the next
thing will surely give
me peace, but there was no peace. This sense of unfulfillment keeps on growing a
s years pass by.
Maharaj: As long as there is the body and the sense of identity with the body, f
rustration is
inevitable. Only when you know yourself as entirely alien to and different from
the body, will you find
respite from the mixture of fear and craving inseparable from the 'I-am-the-body
' idea. Merely
assuaging fears and satisfying desires will not remove this sense of emptiness y
ou are trying to
escape from; only self-knowledge can help you. By self-knowledge I mean full kno
wledge of what
you are not. Such knowledge is attainable and final; but to the discovery of wha
t you are there can
be no end. The more you discover, the more there remains to discover.
Q: For this we must have different parents and schools, live in a different soci
ety.
M: You; cannot change your circumstances, but your attitudes you can change. You
need not be
attached to the non-essentials. Only the necessary is good. There is peace only
in the essential.
Q: It is truth I seek, not peace.
M: You cannot see the true unless you are at peace. A quiet mind is essential fo
r right perception,
which again is required for self-realisation.
Q: I have so much to do. I just cannot afford to keep my mind quiet.
M: It is because of your illusion that you are the doer. In reality things are d
one to you, not by you.
Q: If I just let things happen, how can I be sure that they will happen my way?
Surely I must bend
them to my desire.
M: Your desire just happens to you along with its fulfilment, or non-fulfilment.
 You can change
neither. You may believe that you exert yourself, strive and struggle. Again, it
all merely happens,
including the fruits of the work. Nothing is by you and for you. All is in the p
icture exposed on the
cinema screen, nothing in the light, including what you take yourself to be, the
person. You are the
light only.
Q: If I am light only, how did I come to forget it?
M: You have not forgotten. It is in the picture on the screen that you forget an
d then remember.
You never cease to be a man because you dream to be a tiger. Similarly you are p
ure light
appearing as a picture on the screen and also becoming one with it.
Q: Since all happens, why should I worry?
M: Exactly. Freedom is freedom from worry. Having realised that you cannot influ
ence the results,
pay no attention to your desires and fears. Let them come and go. Don't give the
m the nourishment
of interest and attention.
Q: If I turn my attention from what happens, what am I to live by?
M: Again it is like asking: 'What shall I do, if I stop dreaming?' Stop and see.
You need not be
anxious: 'What next?' There is always the next. Life does not begin nor, end: im
movable -- it moves,
momentary -- it lasts. Light can not be exhausted even if innumerable pictures a
re projected by it.
So does life fill every shape to the brim and return to its source, when the sha
pe breaks down.
Q: If life is so wonderful, how could ignorance happen?
M: You want to treat the disease without having seen the patient! Before you ask
about ignorance,
why don't you enquire first, who is the ignorant? When you say you are ignorant,
you do not know
that you have imposed the concept of ignorance over the actual state of your tho
ughts and feelings.
Examine them as they occur, give them your full attention and you will find that
there is nothing like
ignorance, only inattention. Give attention to what worries you, that is all. Af
ter all, worry is mental
pain and pain is invariably a call for attention. The moment you give attention,
the call for it ceases
and the question of ignorance dissolves. Instead of waiting for an answer to you
r question, find out
who is asking the question and what makes him ask it. You will soon find that it
is the mind, goaded
by fear of pain, that asks the question. And in fear there is memory and anticip
ation, past and
future. Attention brings you back to the present, the now, and the presence in t
he now is a state
ever at hand, but rarely noticed.
Q: You are reducing sadhana to simple attention. How is it that other teachers t
each complete,
difficult and time-consuming courses?
M: The Gurus usually teach the sadhanas by which they themselves have reached th
eir goal,
whatever their goal may be. This is but natural, for their own sadhana they know
intimately. I was
taught to give attention to my sense of 'I am and I found it supremely effective.
Therefore, I can
speak of it with full confidence. But often people come with their bodies, brain
and minds so
mishandled, perverted and weak, that the state of formless attention is beyond t
hem. In such cases,
some simpler token of earnestness is appropriate. The repetition of a mantra, or
gazing at a picture
will prepare their body and mind for a deeper and more direct search. After all,
it is earnestness that
is indispensable, the crucial factor. Sadhana is only a vessel and it must be fi
lled to the brim with
earnestness, which is but love in action. For nothing can be done without love.
Q: We love only ourselves.
M: Were it so, it would be splendid! Love your self wisely and you will reach th
e summit of
perfection. Everybody loves his body, but few love their real being.
Q: Does my real being need my love?
M: Your real being is love itself and your many loves are its reflections accord
ing to the situation at
the moment.
Q: We are selfish, we know only self-love.
M: Good enough for a start. By all means wish yourself well. Think over, feel ou
t deeply what is
really good for you and strive for it earnestly. Very soon you will find that th
e real is your only good.
Q: Yet I do not understand why the various Gurus insist on prescribing complicat
ed and difficult
sadhanas. Don't they know better?
M: It is not what you do, but what you stop doing that matters. The people who b
egin their sadhana
are so feverish and restless, that they have to be very busy to keep themselves
on the track. An
absorbing routine is good for them. After some time they quieten down and turn a
way from effort. In
peace and silence the skin of the 'I' dissolves and the inner and the outer beco
me one. The real
sadhana is effortless.
Q: I have sometimes the feeling that space itself is my body.
M: When you are bound by the illusion: 'I am this body', you are merely a point
in space and a
moment in time. When the self-identification with the body is no more, all space
and time are in your
mind, which is a mere ripple in consciousness, which is awareness reflected in n
ature. Awareness
and matter are the active and the passive aspects of pure being, which is in bot
h and beyond both.
Space and time are the body and the mind of the universal existence. My feeling
is that all that
happens in space and time happens to me, that every experience is my experience
every form is
my form. What I take myself to be, becomes my body and all that happens to that
body becomes
my mind. But at the root of the universe there is pure awareness, beyond space a
nd time, here and
now. Know it to be your real being and act accordingly.
Q: What difference will it make in action what I take myself to be. Actions just
happen according to
circumstances.
M: Circumstances and conditions rule the ignorant. The knower of reality is not
compelled. The
only law he obeys is that of love.
94. You are Beyond Space and Time
Questioner: You keep on saying that I was never born and will never die. If so,
how is it that I see
the world as one which has been born and will surely die?
Maharaj: You believe so because you have never questioned your belief that you a
re the body
which, obviously, is born and dies. While alive, it attracts attention and fasci
nates so completely that
rarely does one perceive one's real nature. It is like seeing the surface of the
ocean and completely
forgetting the immensity beneath. The world is but the surface of the mind and t
he mind is infinite.
What we call thoughts are just ripples in the mind. When the mind is quiet it re
flects reality. When it
is motionless through and through, it dissolves and only reality remains. This r
eality is so concrete,
so actual, so much more tangible than mind and matter, that compared to it even
diamond is soft
like butter. This overwhelming actuality makes the world dreamlike, misty, irrel
evant.
Q: This world, with so much suffering in it, how can you see it as irrelevant. W
hat callousness!
M: It is you who is callous, not me. If your world is so full of suffering, do s
omething about it; don't
add to it through greed or indolence. I am not bound by your dreamlike world. In
my world the seeds
of suffering, desire and fear are not sown and suffering does not grow. My world
is free from
opposites, of mutually distinctive discrepancies; harmony pervades; its peace is
rocklike; this peace
and silence are my body.
Q: What you say reminds me of the dharmakaya of the Buddha.
M: Maybe. We need not run off with terminology. Just see the person you imagine
yourself to be as
a part of the world you perceive within your mind and look at the mind from the
outside, for you are
not the mind. After all, your only problem is the eager self-identification with
whatever you perceive.
Give up this habit, remember that you are not what you perceive, use your power
of alert aloofness.
See yourself in all that lives and your behaviour will express your vision. Once
you realise that there
is nothing in this world, which you can call your own, you look at it from the o
utside as you look at a
play on the stage, or a picture on the screen, admiring and enjoying, but really
unmoved. As long as
you imagine yourself to be something tangible and solid, a thing among things, a
ctually existing in
time and space, short-lived and vulnerable, naturally you will be anxious to sur
vive and increase.
But when you know yourself as beyond space and time -- in contact with them only
at the point of
here and now, otherwise all-pervading and all-containing, unapproachable, unassa
ilable,
invulnerable -- you will be afraid no longer. Know yourself as you are -- agains
t fear there is no
other remedy.
You have to learn to think and feel on these lines, or you will remain indefinit
ely on the personal
level of desire and fear, gaining and losing, growing and decaying. A personal p
roblem cannot be
solved on its own level. The very desire to live is the. messenger of death, as
the longing to be
happy is the outline of sorrow. The world is an ocean of pain and fear, of anxie
ty and despair.
Pleasures are like the fishes, few and swift, rarely come, quickly gone. A man o
f low intelligence
believes, against all evidence, that he is an exception and that the world owes
him happiness. But
the world cannot give what it does not have; unreal to the core, it is of no use
for real happiness. It
cannot be otherwise. We seek the real because we are unhappy with the unreal. Ha
ppiness is our
real nature and we shall never rest until we find it. But rarely we know where t
o seek it. Once you
have understood that the world is but a mistaken view of reality, and is not wha
t it appears to be,
you are free of its obsessions. Only what is compatible with your real being can
make you happy
and the world, as you perceive it, is its outright denial.
Keep very quiet and watch what comes to the surface of the mind. Reject the know
n, welcome the
so far unknown and reject it in its turn. Thus you come to a state in which ther
e is no knowledge,
only being, in which being itself is knowledge. To know by being is direct knowl
edge. It is based on
the identity of the seer and the seen. Indirect knowledge is based on sensation
and memory, on
proximity of the perceiver and his percept, confined with the contrast between t
he two. The same
with happiness. Usually you have to be sad to know gladness and glad to know sad
ness. True
happiness is uncaused and this cannot disappear for lack of stimulation. It is n
ot the opposite of
sorrow, it includes all sorrow and suffering.
Q: How can one remain happy among so much suffering?
M: One cannot help it -- the inner happiness is overwhelmingly real. Like the su
n in the sky, its
expressions may be clouded, but it is never absent.
Q: When we are in trouble, we are bound to be unhappy.
M: Fear is the only trouble. Know yourself as independent and you will be free f
rom fear and its
shadows.
Q: What is the difference between happiness and pleasure?
M: Pleasure depends on things, happiness does not.
Q: If happiness is independent, why are we not always happy?
M: As long as we believe that we need things to make us happy, we shall also bel
ieve that in their
absence we must be miserable. Mind always shapes itself according to its beliefs
. Hence the
importance of convincing oneself that one need not be prodded into happiness; th
at, on the
contrary, pleasure is a distraction and a nuisance, for it merely increases the
false conviction that
one needs to have and do things to be happy when in reality it is just the oppos
ite.
But why talk of happiness at all? You do not think of happiness except when you
are unhappy. A
man who says: 'Now I am happy', is between two sorrows -- past and future. This
happiness is
mere excitement caused by relief from pain. Real happiness is utterly unselfcons
cious. It is best
expressed negatively as: 'there is nothing wrong with me. I have nothing to worr
y about'. After all,
the ultimate purpose of all sadhana is to reach a point, when this conviction, i
nstead of being only
verbal, is based on the actual and ever-present experience.
Q: Which experience?
M: The experience of being empty, uncluttered by memories and expectations; it i
s like the
happiness of open spaces, of being young, of having all the time and energy for
doing things, for
discovery, for adventure.
Q: What remains to discover?
M: The universe without and the immensity within as they are in reality, in the
great mind and heart
of God. The meaning and purpose of existence, the secret of suffering, life's re
demption from
ignorance.
Q: If being happy is the same as being free from fear and worry, cannot it be sa
id that absence of
trouble is the cause of happiness?
M: A state of absence, of non-existence cannot be a cause; the pre-existence of
a cause is implied
in the notion. Your natural state, in which nothing exists, cannot be a cause of
becoming; the
causes are hidden in the great and mysterious power of memory. But your true hom
e is in
nothingness, in emptiness of all content.
Q: Emptiness and nothingness -- how dreadful!
M: You face it most cheerfully, when you go to sleep! Find out for yourself the
state of wakeful
sleep and you will find it quite in harmony with your real nature. Words can onl
y give you the idea
and the idea is not the experience. All I can say is that true happiness has no
cause and what has
no cause is immovable. Which does not mean it is perceivable, as pleasure. What
is perceivable is
pain and pleasure; the state of freedom from sorrow can be described only negati
vely. To know it
directly you must go beyond the mind addicted to causality and the tyranny of ti
me.
Q: If happiness is not conscious and consciousness -- not happy, what is the lin
k between the two?
M: Consciousness being a product of conditions and circumstances, depends on the
m and
changes along with them. What is independent, uncreated, timeless and changeless
, and yet ever
new and fresh, is beyond the mind. When the mind thinks of it, the mind dissolve
s and only
happiness remains.
Q: When all goes, nothingness remains.
M: How can there be nothing without something? Nothing is only an idea, it depen
ds on the
memory of something. Pure being is quite independent of existence, which is defi
nable and
describable.
Q: Please tell us; beyond the mind does consciousness continue, or does it end w
ith the mind?
M: Consciousness comes and goes, awareness shines immutably.
Q: Who is aware in awareness?
M: When there is a person, there is also consciousness. 'I am' mind, consciousne
ss denote the
same state. If you say 'I am aware', it only means: 'I am conscious of thinking
about being aware'.
There is no 'I am' in awareness.
Q: What about witnessing?
M: Witnessing is of the mind. The witness goes with the witnessed. In the state
of non-duality all
separation ceases.
Q: What about you? Do you continue in awareness?
M: The person, the 'I am this body, this mind, this chain of memories, this bund
le of desires and
fears' disappears, but something you may call identity, remains. It enables me t
o become a person
when required. Love creates its own necessities, even of becoming a person.
Q: It is said that Reality manifests itself as existence -- consciousness -- bli
ss. Are they absolute or
relative?
M: They are relative to each other and depend on each other. Reality is independ
ent of its
expressions.
Q: What is the relation between reality and its expressions?
M: No relation. In reality all is real and identical. As we put it, saguna and n
irguna are one in
Parabrahman. There is only the Supreme. In movement, it Is saguna. Motionless, i
t is nirguna. But it
is only the mind that moves or does not move. The real is beyond, you are beyond
. Once you have
understood that nothing perceivable, or conceivable can be yourself, you are fre
e of your
imaginations. To see everything as imagination, born of desire, is necessary for
self-realisation. We
miss the real by lack of attention and create the unreal by excess of imaginatio
n.
You have to give your heart and mind to these things and brood over them repeate
dly. It is like
cooking food. You must keep it on the fire for some time before it is ready.
Q: Am I not under the sway of destiny, of my karma? What can I do against it? Wh
at I am and
what I do is pre-determined. Even my so-called free choice is predetermined; onl
y I am not aware of
it and imagine myself to be free.
M: Again, it all depends how you look at it. Ignorance is like a fever -- it mak
es you see things
which are not there. karma is the divinely prescribed treatment. Welcome it and
follow the
instructions faithfully and you will get well. A patient will leave the hospital
after he recovers. To
insist on immediate freedom of choice and action will merely postpone recovery.
Accept your
destiny and fulfil it -- this is the shortest way to freedom from destiny, thoug
h not from love and its
compulsions. To act from desire and fear is bondage, to act from love is freedom
.
95. Accept Life as it Comes
Questioner: I was here last year. Now I am again before you. What makes me come
I really ~o not
know, but somehow I cannot forget you.
Maharaj: Some forget, some do not, according to their destinies, which you may c
all chance, if you
prefer.
Q: Between chance and destiny there is a basic difference.
M: Only in your mind. In fact, you do not know what causes what? Destiny is only
a blanket word to
cover up your ignorance. Chance is another word.
Q: Without knowledge of causes and their results can there be freedom?
M: Causes and results are infinite in number and variety. Everything affects eve
rything. In this
universe, when one thing changes, everything changes. Hence the great power of m
an in changing
the world by changing himself.
Q: According to your own words, you have, by the grace of your Guru, changed rad
ically some
forty years ago. Yet the world remains as it had been before.
M: My world has changed completely. Yours remains the same, for you have not cha
nged.
Q: How is it that your change has not affected me?
M: Because there was no communion between us. Do not consider yourself as separa
te from me
and we shall at once share in the common state.
Q: I have some property in the United States which I intend to sell and buy some
land in the
Himalayas. I shall build a house, lay out a garden, get two or three cows and li
ve quietly. People tell
me that property and quiet are not compatible, that I shall at once get into tro
uble with officials,
neighbours and thieves. Is it inevitable?
M: The least you can expect is an endless succession of visitors who will make y
our abode into a
free and open guesthouse. Better accept your life as it shapes, go home and look
after your wife
with love and care. Nobody else needs you. Your dreams of glory will land you in
more trouble.
Q: It is not glory that I seek. I seek Reality.
M: For this you need a well-ordered and quiet life, peace of mind and immense ea
rnestness. At
every moment whatever comes to you unasked, comes from God and will surely help
you, if you
make the fullest use of it. It is only what you strive for, out of your own imag
ination and desire, that
gives you trouble.
Q: Is destiny the same as grace?
M: Absolutely. Accept life as it comes and you will find it a blessing.
Q: I can accept my own life. How can I accept the sort of life others are compel
led to live?
M: You are accepting it anyhow. The sorrows of others do not interfere with your
pleasures. If you
were really compassionate, you would have abandoned long ago all self-concern an
d entered the
state from which alone you can really help.
Q: If I have a big house and enough land, I may create an Ashram, with individua
l rooms; common
meditation hall, canteen, library, office etc.
M: Ashrams are not made, they happen. You cannot start nor prevent them, as you
cannot start or
stop a river. Too many factors are involved in the creation of a successful Ashr
am and your inner
maturity is only one of them. Of course, if you are ignorant of your real being,
whatever you do must
turn to ashes. You cannot imitate a Guru and get away with it. All hypocrisy wil
l end in disaster.
Q: What is the harm in behaving like a saint even before being one?
M: Rehearsing saintliness is a sadhana. It is perfectly all right. provided no m
erit is claimed.
Q: How can I know whether I am able to start an Ashram unless I try?
M: As long as you take yourself to be a person, a body and a mind, separate from
the stream of
life, having a will of its own, pursuing its own aims, you are living merely on
the surface and
whatever you do will be short-lived and of little value, mere straw to feed the
flames of vanity. You
must put in true worth before you can expect something real. What is your worth?
Q: By what measure shall I measure it?
M: Look at the content of your mind. You are what you think about. Are you not m
ost of the time
busy with your own little person and its daily needs?
The value of regular meditation is that it takes you away from the humdrum of da
ily routine and
reminds you that you are not what you believe yourself to be. But even rememberi
ng is not enough
-- action must follow conviction. Don't be like the rich man who has made a deta
iled will, but refuses
to die.
Q: Is not gradualness the law of life?
M: Oh, no. The preparation alone is gradual, the change itself is sudden and com
plete. Gradual
change does not take you to a new level of conscious being. You need courage to
let go.
Q: I admit it is courage that I lack.
M: It is because you are not fully convinced. Complete conviction generates both
desire and
courage. And meditation is the art of achieving faith through understanding. In
meditation you
consider the teaching received, in all its aspects and repeatedly, until out of
clarity confidence is
born and, with confidence, action. Conviction and action are inseparable. If act
ion does not follow
conviction, examine your convictions, don't accuse yourself of lack of courage.
Self-depreciation will
take you nowhere. Without clarity and emotional assent of what use is will?
Q: What do you mean by emotional assent? Am I not to act against my desires?
M: You will not act against your desires. Clarity is not enough. Energy comes fr
om love -- you must
love to act -- whatever the shape and object of your love. Without clarity and c
harity courage is
destructive. People at war are often wonderfully courageous, but what of it?
Q: I see quite clearly that all I want is a house in a garden where I shall live
in peace. Why should I
not act on my desire?
M: By all means, act. But do not forget the inevitable, unexpected. Without rain
your garden will not
flourish. You need courage for adventure.
Q: I need time to collect my courage, don't hustle me. Let me ripen for action.
M: The entire approach is wrong. Action delayed is action abandoned. There may b
e other
chances for other actions, but the present moment is lost -- irretrievably lost.
All preparation is for
the future -- you cannot prepare for the present.
Q: What is wrong with preparing for the future?
M: Acting in the now is not much helped by your preparations. Clarity is now, ac
tion is now.
Thinking of being ready impedes action. And action is the touchstone of reality.
Q: Even when we act without conviction?
M: You cannot live without action, and behind each action there is some fear or
desire. Ultimately,
all you do is based on your conviction that the world is real and independent of
yourself. Were you
convinced of the contrary, your behaviour would have been quite different.
Q: There is nothing wrong with my convictions; my actions are shaped by circumst
ances.
M: In other words, you are convinced of the reality of your circumstances, of th
e world in which you
live. Trace the world to its source and you will find that before the world was,
you were and when
the world is no longer, you remain. Find your timeless being and your action wil
l bear it testimony.
Did you find it?
Q: No, I did not.
M: Then what else have you to do? Surely, this is the most urgent task. You cann
ot see yourself as
independent of everything unless you drop everything and remain unsupported and
undefined.
Once you know yourself, it is immaterial what you do, but to realise your indepe
ndence, you must
test it by letting go all you were dependent on. The realised man lives on the l
evel of the absolutes;
his wisdom, love and courage are complete, there is nothing relative about him.
Therefore he must
prove himself by tests more stringent, undergo trials more demanding. The tester
, the tested and
the set up for testing are all within; it is an inner drama to which none can be
a party.
Q: Crucifixion, death and resurrection -- we are on familiar grounds! I have rea
d, heard and talked
about it endlessly, but to do it I find myself incapable.
M: Keep quiet, undisturbed, and the wisdom and the power will come on their own.
 You need not
hanker. Wait in silence of the heart and mind. It is very easy to be quiet, but
willingness is rare. You
people want to become supermen overnight. Stay without ambition, without the lea
st desire,
exposed, vulnerable, unprotected, uncertain and alone, completely open to and we
lcoming life as it
happens, without the selfish conviction that all must yield you pleasure or prof
it, material or so-
called spiritual.
Q: I respond to what you say, but I just do not see how it is done.
M: If you know how to do it, you will not do it. Abandon every attempt, just be;
don't strive, don't
struggle, let go every support, hold on to the blind sense of being, brushing of
f all else. This is
enough.
Q: How is this brushing done? The more I brush off, the more it comes to the sur
face.
M: Refuse attention, let things come and go. Desires and thoughts are also thing
s. Disregard them.
Since immemorial time the dust of events was covering the clear mirror of your m
ind, so that only
memories you could see. Brush off the dust before it has time to settle; this wi
ll lay bare the old
layers until the true nature of your mind is discovered. It is all very simple a
nd comparatively easy;
be earnest and patient, that is all. Dispassion, detachment, freedom from desire
and fear, from all
self-concern, mere awareness -- free from memory and expectation -- this is the
state of mind to
which discovery can happen. After all, liberation is but the freedom to discover
.
96. Abandon Memories and Expectations
Questioner: I am an American by birth and for the last one year I was staying in
an Ashram in
Madhya Pradesh, studying Yoga in its many aspects. We had a teacher, whose Guru,
a disciple of
the great Sivananda Saraswati, stays in Monghyr. I stayed at Ramanashram also. W
hile in Bombay
I went through an intensive course of Burmese meditation managed by one Goenka.
Yet I have not
found peace. There is an improvement in self-control and day-to-day discipline,
but that is all. I
cannot say exactly what caused what. I visited many holy places. How each acted
on me, I cannot
say.
Maharaj: Good results will come, sooner or later. At Sri Ramanashram did you get
some
instructions?
Q: Yes, some English people were teaching me and also an Indian follower of jnan
a yoga, residing
there permanently, was giving me lessons.
M: What are your plans?
Q: I have to return to the States because of visa difficulties. I intend to comp
lete my B.Sc., study
Nature Cure and make it my profession.
M: A good profession, no doubt.
Q: Is there any danger in pursuing the path of Yoga at all cost?
M: Is a match-stick dangerous when the house is on fire? The search for reality
is the most
dangerous of all undertakings for it will destroy the world in which you live. B
ut if your motive is love
of truth and life, you need not be afraid.
Q: I am afraid of my own mind. It is so unsteady!
M: In the mirror of your mind images appear and disappear. The mirror remains. L
earn to
distinguish the immovable in the movable, the unchanging in the changing, till y
ou realise that all
differences are in appearance only and oneness is a fact. This basic identity --
you may call God, or
Brahman, or the matrix (Prakriti), the words matters little -- is only the reali
sation that all is one.
Once you can say with confidence born from direct experience: 'I am the world, t
he world is myself',
you are free from desire and fear on one hand and become totally responsible for
the world on the
other. The senseless sorrow of mankind becomes your sole concern.
Q: So even a jnani has his problems!
M: Yes, but they are no longer of his own creation. His suffering is not poisone
d by a sense of guilt.
There is nothing wrong with suffering for the sins of others. Your Christianity
is based on this.
Q: Is not all suffering self-created?
M: Yes, as long as there is a separate self to create it. In the end you know th
at there is no sin, no
guilt, no retribution, only life in its endless transformations. With the dissol
ution of the personal 'I'
personal suffering disappears. What remains is the great sadness of compassion,
the horror of the
unnecessary pain.
Q: Is there anything unnecessary in the scheme of things?
M: Nothing is necessary, nothing is inevitable. Habit and passion blind and misl
ead.
Compassionate awareness heals and redeems. There is nothing we can do, we can on
ly let things
happen according to their nature.
Q: Do you advocate complete passivity?
M: Clarity and charity is action. Love is not lazy and clarity directs. You need
not worry about
action, look after your mind and heart. Stupidity and selfishness are the only e
vil.
Q: What is better -- repetition of God's name, or meditation?
M: Repetition will stabilise your breath. With deep and quiet breathing vitality
will improve, which
will influence the brain and help the mind to grow pure and stable and fit for m
editation. Without
vitality little can be done, hence the importance of its protection and increase
. Posture and
breathing are a part of Yoga, for the body must be healthy and well under contro
l, but too much
concentration on the body defeats its own purpose, for it is the mind that is pr
imary in the beginning.
When the mind has been put to rest and disturbs no longer the inner space (chida
kash), the body
acquires a new meaning and its transformation becomes both necessary and possibl
e.
[picture]
Q: I have been wandering all over India, meeting many Gurus and learning in drib
lets several
Yogas. Is it all right to have a taste of everything?
M: No, this is but an introduction. You will meet a man who will help you find y
our own way.
Q: I feel that the Guru of my own choice can not be my real Guru. To be real he
must come
unexpected and be irresistible.
M: Not to anticipate is best. The way you respond is decisive.
Q: Am I the master of my responses?
M: Discrimination and dispassion practised now will yield their fruits at the pr
oper time. If the roots
are healthy and well-watered, the fruits are sure to be sweet. Be pure, be alert
, keep ready.
Q: Are austerities and penances of any use?
M: To meet all the vicissitudes of life is penance enough! You need not invent t
rouble. To meet
cheerfully whatever life brings is all the austerity you need.
Q: What about sacrifice?
M: Share willingly and gladly all you have with whoever needs -- don't invent se
lf-inflicted cruelties.
Q: What is self-surrender?
M: Accept what comes.
Q: I feel I am too weak to stand on my own legs. I need the holy company of a Gu
ru and of good
people. Equanimity is beyond me. To accept what comes as it comes, frightens me.
I think of my
returning to the States with horror.
M: Go back and make the best use of your opportunities. Get your B.Sc. degree fi
rst. You can
always return to India for your Nature Cure studies.
Q: I am quite aware of the opportunities in the States. It is the loneliness tha
t frightens me.
M: You have always the company of your own self -- you need not feel alone. Estr
anged from it
even in India you will feel lonely. All happiness comes from pleasing the self.
Please it, after return
to the States, do nothing that may be unworthy of the glorious reality within yo
ur heart and you shall
be happy and remain happy. But you must seek the self and, having found it, stay
with it.
Q: Will compete solitude be of any benefit?
M: It depends on your temperament. You may work with others and for others, aler
t and friendly,
and grow more fully than in solitude, which may make you dull or leave you at th
e mercy of your
mind's endless chatter. Do not imagine that you can change through effort. Viole
nce, even turned
against yourself, as in austerities and penance, will remain fruitless.
Q: Is there no way of making out who is realised and who is not?
M: Your only proof is in yourself. If you find that you turn to gold, it will be
a sign that you have
touched the philosopher's stone. Stay with the person and watch what happens to
you. Don't ask
others. Their man may not be your Guru. A Guru may be universal in his essence,
but not in his
expressions. He may appear to be angry or greedy or over-anxious about his Ashra
m or his family,
and you may be misled by appearances, while others are not.
Q: Have I not the right to expect all-round perfection, both inner and outer?
M: Inner --- yes. But outer perfection depends on circumstances, on the state of
the body, personal
and social, and other innumerable factors.
Q: I was told to find a jnani so that I may learn from him the art of achieving
jnana and now I am
told that the entire approach is false, that I cannot make out a jnani, nor can
jnana be conquered by
appropriate means. It is all so confusing!
M: It is all due to your complete misunderstanding of reality. Your mind is stee
ped in the habits of
evaluation and acquisition and will not admit that the incomparable and unobtain
able are waiting
timelessly within your own heart for recognition. All you have to do is to aband
on all memories and
expectations. Just keep yourself ready in utter nakedness and nothingness.
Q: Who is to do the abandoning?
M: God will do it. Just see the need of being abandoned. Don't resist, don't hol
d on to the person
you take yourself to be. Because you imagine yourself to be a person you take th
e jnani to be a
person too, only somewhat different, better informed and more powerful. You may
say that he is
eternally conscious and happy, but it is far from expressing the whole truth. Do
n't trust definitions
and descriptions -- they are grossly misleading.
Q: Unless I am told what to do and how to do it, I feel lost.
M: By all means do feel lost! As long as you feel competent and confident, reali
ty is beyond your
reach. Unless you accept inner adventure as a way of life, discovery will not co
me to you.
Q: Discovery of what?
M: Of the centre of your being, which is free of all directions, all means and e
nds.
Q: Be all, know all, have all?
M: Be nothing, know nothing, have nothing. This is the only life worth living, t
he only happiness
worth having.
Q: I may admit that the goal is beyond my comprehension. Let me know the way at
least.
M: You must find your own way. Unless you find it yourself it will not be your o
wn way and will take
you nowhere. Earnestly live your truth as you have found it -- act on the little
you have understood.
It is earnestness that will take you through, not cleverness -- your own or anot
her's.
Q: I am afraid of mistakes. So many things I tried -- nothing came out of them.
M: You gave too little of yourself, you were merely curious, not earnest.
Q: I don't know any better.
M: At least that much you know. Knowing them to be superficial, give no value to
your experiences,
forget them as soon as they are over. Live a clean, selfless life, that is all.
Q: Is morality so important?
M: Don't cheat, don't hurt -- is it not important? Above all you need inner peac
e -- which demands
harmony between the inner and the outer. Do what you believe in and believe in w
hat you do. All
else is a waste of energy and time.
97. Mind and the World are not Separate
Questioner: I see here pictures of several saints and I am told that they are yo
ur spiritual
ancestors. Who are they and how did it all begin?
Maharaj: We are called collectively the 'Nine Masters'. The legend says that our
first teacher was
Rishi Dattatreya, the great incarnation of the Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shi
va. Even the 'Nine
Masters' (Navnath) are mythological.
Q: What is the peculiarity of their teaching?
M: Its simplicity, both in theory and practice.
Q: How does one become a Navnath? By initiation or by succession?
M: Neither. The Nine Masters' tradition, Navnath Parampara, is like a river -- it
flows into the ocean
of reality and whoever enters it is carried along.
Q: Does it imply acceptance by a living master belonging to the same tradition?
M: Those who practise the sadhana of focussing their minds on I am' may feel rela
ted to others
who have followed the same sadhana and succeeded. They may decide to verbalise t
heir sense of
kinship by calling themselves Navnaths. It gives them the pleasure of belonging
to an established
tradition.
Q: Do they in any way benefit by joining?
M: The circle of satsang, the 'company of saints', expands in numbers as time pa
sses.
Q: Do they get hold thereby of a source of power and grace from which they would
have been
barred otherwise?
M: Power and grace are for all and for the asking. Giving oneself a particular n
ame does not help.
Call yourself by any name -- as long as you are intensely mindful of yourself, t
he accumulated
obstacles to self-knowledge are bound to be swept away.
Q: If I like your teaching and accept your guidance, can I call myself a Navnath
?
M: Please your word-addicted mind! The name will not change you. At best it may
remind you to
behave. There is a succession of Gurus and their disciples, who in turn train mo
re disciples and
thus the line is maintained. But the continuity of tradition is informal and vol
untary. It is like a family
name, but here the family is spiritual.
Q: Do you have to realise to join the Sampradaya?
M: The Navnath Sampradaya is only a tradition, a way of teaching and practice. I
t does not denote
a level of consciousness. If you accept a Navnath Sampradaya teacher as your Gur
u, you join his
Sampradaya. Usually you receive a token of his grace -- a look, a touch, or a wo
rd, sometimes a
vivid dream or a strong remembrance. Sometimes the only sign of grace is a signi
ficant and rapid
change in character and behaviour.
Q: I know you now for some years and I meet you regularly. The thought of you is
never far from
my mind. Does it make me belong to your Sampradaya?
M: Your belonging is a matter of your own feeling and conviction. After all, it
is all verbal and
formal. In reality there is neither Guru nor disciple, neither theory nor practi
ce, neither ignorance nor
realisation. It all depends on what you take yourself to be. Know yourself corre
ctly. There is no
substitute to self-knowledge.
Q: What proof will I have that I know myself correctly?
M: You need no proofs. The experience is unique and unmistakable. It will dawn o
n you suddenly,
when the obstacles are removed to some extent. It is like a frayed rope snapping
. Yours is to work
at the strands. The break is bound to happen. It can be delayed, but not prevent
ed.
Q: I am confused by your denial of causality. Does it mean that none is responsi
ble for the world
as it is?
M: The idea of responsibility is in your mind. You think there must be something
or somebody
solely responsible for all that happens. There is a contradiction between a mult
iple universe and a
single cause. Either one or the other must be false. Or both. As I see it, it is
all day-dreaming. There
is no reality in ideas. The fact is that without you, neither the universe nor i
ts cause could have
come into being.
Q: I cannot make out whether I am the creature or the creator of the universe.
M: 'I am' is an ever-present fact, while 'I am created' is an idea. Neither God
nor the universe have
come to tell you that they have created you. The mind obsessed by the idea of ca
usality invents
creation and then wonders 'who is the creator?' The mind itself is the creator.
Even this is not quite
true, for the created and its creator are one. The mind and the world are not se
parate. Do
understand that what you think to be the world is your own mind.
Q: Is there a world beyond, or outside the mind?
M: All space and time are in the mind. Where will you locate a supramental world
? There are many
levels of the mind and each projects its own version, yet all are in the mind an
d created by the mind.
Q: What is your attitude to sin? How do you look at a sinner, somebody who break
s the law, inner
or outer? Do you want him to change or you just pity him? Or, are you indifferen
t to him because of
his sins?
M: I know no sin, nor sinner. Your distinction and valuation do not bind me. Eve
rybody behaves
according to his nature. It cannot be helped, nor need it be regretted.
Q: Others suffer.
M: Life lives on life. In nature the process is compulsory, in society it should
be voluntary. There
can be no life without sacrifice. A sinner refuses to sacrifice and invites deat
h. This is as it is, and
gives no cause for condemnation or pity.
Q: Surely you feel at least compassion when you see a man steeped in sin.
M: Yes, I feel I am that man and his sins are my sins.
Q: Right, and what next?
M: By my becoming one with him he becomes one with me. It is not a conscious pro
cess, it
happens entirely by itself. None of us can help it. What needs changing shall ch
ange anyhow;
enough to know oneself as one is, here and now. Intense and methodical investiga
tion into one's
mind is Yoga.
Q: What about the chains of destiny forged by sin?
M: When ignorance, the mother of sin, dissolves, destiny, the compulsion to sin
again, ceases.
Q: There are retributions to make.
M: With ignorance coming to an end all comes to an end. Things are then seen as
they are and
they are good.
Q: If a sinner, a breaker of the law, comes before you and asks for your grace,
what will be your
response?
M: He will get what he asks for.
Q: In spite of being a very bad man?
M: I know no bad people, I only know myself. I see no saints nor sinners, only l
iving beings. I do
not hand out grace. There is nothing I can give, or deny, which you do not have
already in equal
measure. Just be aware of your riches and make full use of them. As long as you
imagine that you
need my grace, you will be at my door begging for it.
My begging for grace from you would make as little sense! We are not separate, t
he real is common.
Q: A mother comes to you with a tale of woe. Her only son has taken to drugs and
sex and is
going from bad to worse. She is asking for your grace. What shall be your respon
se?
M: Probably I shall hear myself telling her that all will be well.
Q: That's all?
M: That's all. What more do you expect?
Q: But will the son of the woman change?
M: He may or he may not.
Q: The people who collect round you, and who know you for many years, maintain t
hat when you
say 'it will be all right' it invariably happens as you say.
M: You may as well say that it is the mother's heart that saved the child. For e
verything there are
innumerable causes.
Q: I am told that the man who wants nothing for himself is all-powerful. The ent
ire universe is at
his disposal.
M: If you believe so, act on it. Abandon every personal desire and use the power
thus saved for
changing the world!
Q: All the Buddhas and Rishis have not succeeded in changing the world.
M: The world does not yield to changing. By its very nature it is painful and tr
ansient. See it as it is
and divest yourself of all desire and fear. When the world does not hold and bin
d you, it becomes
an abode of joy and beauty. You can be happy in the world only when you are free
of it.
Q: What is right and what is wrong?
M: Generally, what causes suffering is wrong and what removes it, is right. The
body and the mind
are limited and therefore vulnerable; they need protection which gives rise to f
ear. As long as you
identify yourself with them you are bound to suffer; realise your independence a
nd remain happy. I
tell you, this is the secret of happiness. To believe that you depend on things
and people for
happiness is due to ignorance of your true nature; to know that you need nothing
to be happy,
except self-knowledge, is wisdom.
Q: What comes first, being or desire?
M: With being arising in consciousness, the ideas of what you are arise in your
mind as well as
what you should be. This brings forth desire and action and the process of becom
ing begins.
Becoming has, apparently, no beginning and no end, for it restarts every moment.
With the
cessation of imagination and desire, becoming ceases and the being this or that
merges into pure
being, which is not describable, only experienceable.
The world appears to you so overwhelmingly real, because you think of it all the
time; cease
thinking of it and it will dissolve into thin mist. You need not forget; when de
sire and fear end,
bondage also ends. It is the emotional involvement, the pattern of likes and dis
likes which we call
character and temperament, that create the bondage.
Q: Without desire and fear what motive is there for action?
M: None, unless you consider love of life, of righteousness, of beauty, motive e
nough. Do not be
afraid of freedom from desire and fear. It enables you to live a life so differe
nt from all you know, so
much more intense and interesting, that, truly, by losing all you gain all.
Q: Since you count your spiritual ancestry from Rishi Dattatreya, are we right i
n believing that you
and all your predecessors are reincarnations of the Rishi?
M: You may believe in whatever you like and if you act on your belief, you will
get the fruits of it; but
to me it has no importance. I am what I am and this is enough for me. I have no
desire to identify
myself with anybody, however illustrious. Nor do I feel the need to take myths f
or reality. I am only
interested in ignorance and the freedom from ignorance. The proper role of a Gur
u is to dispel
ignorance in the hearts and minds of his disciples. Once the disciple has unders
tood, the confirming
action is up to him. Nobody can act for another. And if he does not act rightly,
it only means that he
has not understood and that the Guru's work is not over.
Q: There must be some hopeless cases too?
M: None is hopeless. Obstacles can be overcome. What life cannot mend, death wil
l end, but the
Guru cannot fail.
Q: What gives you the assurance?
M: The Guru and man's inner reality are really one and work together towards the
same goal -- the
redemption and salvation of the mind They cannot fail. Out of the very boulders
that obstruct them
they build their bridges. Consciousness is not the whole of being -- there are o
ther levels on which
man is much more co-operative. The Guru is at home on all levels and his energy
and patience are
inexhaustible.
Q: You keep on telling me that I am dreaming and that it is high time I should w
ake up. How does
it happen that the Maharaj, who has come to me in my dreams, has not succeeded i
n waking me
up? He keeps on urging and reminding, but the dream continues.
M: It is because you have not really understood that you are dreaming. This is t
he essence of
bondage -- the mixing of the real with unreal. In your present state only the se
nse 'I am' refers to
reality; the 'what' and the 'how I am' are illusions imposed by destiny, or acci
dent.
Q: When did the dream begin?
M: It appears to be beginningless, but in fact it is only now. From moment to mo
ment you are
renewing it. Once you have seen that you are dreaming, you shall wake up. But yo
u do not see,
because you want the dream to continue. A day will come when you will long for t
he ending of the
dream, with all your heart and mind, and be willing to pay any price; the price
will be dispassion and
detachment, the loss of interest in the dream itself.
Q: How helpless I am. As long as the dream of existence lasts, I want it to cont
inue. As long as I
want it to continue, it will last.
M: Wanting it to continue is not inevitable. See clearly your condition, your ve
ry clarity will release
you.
Q: As long as I am with you, all you say seems pretty obvious; but as soon as I
am away from you
I run about restless and anxious.
M: You need not keep away from me, in your mind at least. But your mind is after
the world's
welfare!
Q: The world is full of troubles, no wonder my mind too is full of them.
M: Was there ever a world without troubles? Your being as a person depends on vi
olence to
others. Your very body is a battlefield, full of the dead and dying. Existence i
mplies violence.
Q: As a body -- yes. As a human being -- definitely no. For humanity non-violenc
e is the law of life
and violence of death.
M: There is little of non-violence in nature.
Q: God and nature are not human and need not be humane. I am concerned with man
alone. To
be human I must be compassionate absolutely.
M: Do you realise that as long as you have a self to defend, you must be violent
?
Q: I do. To be truly human I must be self-less. As long as I am selfish, I am su
b-human, a
humanoid only.
M: So, we are all sub-human and only a few are human. Few or many, it is again '
clarity and
charity' that make us human. The sub-human -- the 'humanoids' -- are dominated b
y tamas and
rajas and the humans by sattva. Clarity and charity is sattva as it affects mind
and action. But the
real is beyond sattva. Since I have known you, you seem to be always after helpi
ng the world. How
much did you help?
Q: Not a bit. Neither the world has changed, nor have I. But the world suffers a
nd I suffer along
with it. To struggle against suffering is a natural reaction. And what is civili
zation and culture,
philosophy and religion, but a revolt against suffering. Evil and the ending of
evil -- is it not your own
main preoccupation? You may call it ignorance -- it comes to the same.
M: Well, words do not matter, nor does it matter in what shape you are just now.
Names and
shapes change incessantly. Know yourself to be the changeless witness of the cha
ngeful mind.
That is enough.
98. Freedom from Self-identification
Maharaj: Can you sit on the floor? Do you need a pillow? Have you any questions
to ask? Not that
you need to ask, you can as well be quiet. To be, just be, is important. You nee
d not ask anything,
nor do anything. Such apparently lazy way of spending time is highly regarded in
India. It means
that for the time being you are free from the obsession with 'what next'. When y
ou Are not in a hurry
and the mind is free from anxieties, it becomes quiet and in the silence somethi
ng may be heard
which is ordinarily too fine and subtle for perception. The mind must be open an
d quiet to see. What
we are trying to do here is to bring our minds into the right state for understa
nding what is real.
Questioner: How do we learn to cut out worries?
M: You need not worry about your worries. Just be. Do not try to be quiet; do no
t make 'being quiet'
into a task to be performed. Don't be restless about 'being quiet', miserable ab
out 'being happy'.
Just be aware that you are and remain aware -- don't say: 'yes, I am; what next?
' There is no 'next'
in 'I am'. It is a timeless state.
Q: If it is a timeless state, it will assert itself anyhow.
M: You are what you are, timelessly, but of what use is it to you unless you kno
w it and act on it?
Your begging bowl may be of pure gold, but as long as you do not know it, you ar
e a pauper. You
must know your inner worth and trust it and express it in the daily sacrifice of
desire and fear.
Q: If I know myself, shall I not desire and fear?
M: For some time the mental habits may linger in spite of the new vision, the ha
bit of longing for the
known past and fearing the unknown future. When you know these are of the mind o
nly, you can go
beyond them. As long as you have all sorts of ideas about yourself, you know you
rself through the
mist of these ideas; to know yourself as you are, give up all ideas. You cannot
imagine the taste of
pure water, you can only discover it by abandoning all flavourings.
As long as you are interested in your present way of living, you will not abando
n it. Discovery
cannot come as long as you cling to the familiar. It is only when you realise fu
lly the immense
sorrow of your life and revolt against it, that a way out can be found.
Q: I can now see that the secret of India's eternal life lies in these dimension
s of existence, of
which India was always the custodian.
M: It is an open secret and there were always people willing and ready to share
it. Teachers --
there are many, fearless disciples -- very few.
Q: I am quite willing to learn.
M: Learning words is not enough. You may know the theory, but without the actual
experience of
yourself as the impersonal and unqualified centre of being, love and bliss, mere
verbal knowledge is
sterile.
Q: Then, what am I to do?
M: Try to be, only to be. The all-important word is 'try'. Allot enough time dai
ly for sitting quietly and
trying, just trying, to go beyond the personality, with its addictions and obses
sions. Don't ask how, it
cannot be explained. You just keep on trying until you succeed. If you persevere
, there can be no
failure. What matters supremely is sincerity, earnestness; you must really have
had surfeit of being
the person you are, now see the urgent need of being free of this unnecessary se
lf-identification
with a bundle of memories and habits. This steady resistance against the unneces
sary is the secret
of success.
After all, you are what you are every moment of your life, but you are never con
scious of it, except,
maybe, at the point of awakening from sleep. All you need is to be aware of bein
g, not as a verbal
statement, but as an ever-present fact. The a awareness that you are will open y
our eyes to what
you are. It is all very simple. First of all, establish a constant contact with
your self, be with yourself
all the time. Into self-awareness all blessings flow. Begin as a centre of obser
vation, deliberate
cognisance, and grow into a centre of love in action. 'I am' is a tiny seed whic
h will grow into a
mighty tree -- quite naturally, without a trace of effort.
Q: I see so much evil in myself. Must I not change it?
M: Evil is the shadow of inattention. In the light of self-awareness it will wit
her and fall off.
All dependence on another is futile, for what others can give others will take a
way. Only what is
your own at the start will remain your own in the end. Accept no guidance but fr
om within, and even
then sift out all memories for they will mislead you. Even if you are quite igno
rant of the ways and
the means, keep quiet and look within; guidance is sure to come. You are never l
eft without
knowing what your next step should be. The trouble is that you may shirk it. The
Guru is there for
giving you courage because of his experience and success. But only what you disc
over through
your own awareness, your own effort, will be of permanent use to you.
Remember, nothing you perceive is your own. Nothing of value can come to you fro
m outside; it is
only your own feeling and understanding that are relevant and revealing. Words,
heard or read, will
only create images in your mind, but you are not a mental image. You are the pow
er of perception
and action behind and beyond the image.
Q: You seem to advise me to be self-centred to the point of egoism. Must I not y
ield even to my
interest in other people?
M: Your interest in others is egoistic, self-concerned, self-oriented. You are n
ot interested in others
as persons, but only as far as they enrich, or ennoble your own image of yoursel
f. And the ultimate
in selfishness is to care only for the protection, preservation and multiplicati
on of one's own body.
By body I mean all that is related to your name and shape -- your family, tribe,
country, race, etc. To
be attached to one's name and shape is selfishness. A man who knows that he is n
either body nor
mind cannot be selfish, for he has nothing to be selfish for. Or, you may say, h
e is equally 'selfish'
on behalf of everybody he meets; everybody's welfare is his own. The feeling 'I
am the world, the
world is myself' becomes quite natural; once it is established, there is just no
way of being selfish.
To be selfish means to covet, acquire, accumulate on behalf of the part against
the whole.
Q: One may be rich with many possessions, by inheritance, or marriage, or just g
ood luck.
M: If you do not hold on to, it will be taken away from you.
Q: In your present state can you love another person as a person?
M: I am the other person, the other person is myself; in name and shape we are d
ifferent, but there
is no separation. At the root of our being we are one.
Q: Is it not so whenever there is love between people?
M: It is, but they are not conscious of it. They feel the attraction, but do not
know the reason.
Q: Why is love selective?
M: Love is not selective, desire is selective. In love there are no strangers. W
hen the centre of
selfishness is no longer, all desires for pleasure and fear of pain cease; one i
s no longer interested
in being happy; beyond happiness there is pure intensity, inexhaustible energy,
the ecstasy of
giving from a perennial source.
Q: Mustn't I begin by solving for myself the problem of right and wrong?
M: What is pleasant people take it to be good and what is painful they take it t
o be bad.
Q: Yes, that is how it is with us, ordinary people. But how is it with you, at t
he level of oneness?
For you what is good and what is bad?
M: What increases suffering is bad and what removes it is good.
Q: So you deny goodness to suffering itself. There are religions in which suffer
ing is considered
good and noble.
M: Karma, or destiny, is an expression of a beneficial law: the universal trend
towards balance,
harmony and unity. At every moment, whatever happens now, is for the best. It ma
y appear painful
and ugly, a suffering bitter and meaningless, yet considering the past and the f
uture it is for the
best, as the only way out of a disastrous situation.
Q: Does one suffer only for one's own sins?
M: One suffers along with what one thinks oneself to be. If you feel one with hu
manity, you suffer
with humanity.
Q: And since you claim to be one with the sufferers, there is no limit in time o
r space to your
suffering!
M: To be is to suffer. The narrower the circle of my self-identification, the mo
re acute the suffering
caused by desire and fear.
Q: Christianity accepts suffering as purifying and ennobling, while Hinduism loo
ks at it with
distaste.
M: Christianity is one way of putting words together and Hinduism is another. Th
e real is, behind
and beyond words, incommunicable, directly experienced, explosive in its effect
on the mind. It is
easily had when nothing else is wanted. The innards created by imagination and p
erpetuated by
desire.
Q: Can there be no suffering that is necessary and good?
M: Accidental or incidental pain is inevitable and transitory; deliberate pain,
inflicted with even the
best of intentions, is meaningless and cruel.
Q: You would not punish crime?
M: Punishment is but legalised crime. In a society built on prevention, rather t
han retaliation, there
would be very little crime. The few exceptions will be treated medically, as of
unsound mind and
body.
Q: You seem to have little use for religion.
M: What is religion? A cloud in the sky. I live in the sky, not in the clouds, w
hich are so many words
held together. Remove the verbiage and what remains? Truth remains. My home is i
n the
unchangeable, which appears to be a state of constant reconciliation and integra
tion of opposites.
People come here to learn about the actual existence of such a state, the obstac
les to its
emergence, and, once perceived, the art of stabilising it in consciousness, so t
hat there is no clash
between understanding and living. The state itself is beyond the mind and need n
ot be learnt. The
mind can only focus the obstacles; seeing an obstacle as an obstacle is effectiv
e, because it is the
mind acting on the mind. Begin from the beginning: give attention to the fact th
at you are. At no time
can you say 'I was not' all you can say: 'I do not remember'. You know how unrel
iable is memory.
Accept that, engrossed in petty personal affairs you have forgotten what you are
; try to bring back
the lost memory through the elimination of the known. You cannot be told what wi
ll happen, nor is it
desirable; anticipation will create illusions. In the inner search the unexpecte
d is inevitable; the
discovery is invariably beyond all imagination. Just as an unborn child cannot k
now life after birth,
for it has nothing in its mind with which to form a valid picture, so is the min
d unable to think of the
real in terms of the unreal, except by negation: Not this, not that'. The accepta
nce of the unreal as
real is the obstacle; to see the false as false and abandon the false brings rea
lity into being. The
states of utter clarity, immense love, utter fearlessness; these are mere words
at the present,
outlines without colour, hints at what can be. You are like a blind man expectin
g to see as a result of
an operation -- provided you do not shirk the operation! The state I am in words
do not matter at all.
Nor is there any addiction to words. Only facts matter.
Q: There can be no religion without words.
M: Recorded religions are mere heaps of verbiage. Religions show their true face
in action, in silent
action. To know what man believes, watch how he acts. For most of the people ser
vice of their
bodies and their minds is their religion. They may have religious ideas, but the
y do not act on them.
They play with them, they are often very fond of them, but they will not act on
them.
Q: Words are needed for communication.
M: For exchange of information -- yes. But real communication between people is
not verbal. For
establishing and maintaining relationship affectionate awareness expressed in di
rect action is
required. Not what you say, but what you do is that matters. Words are made by t
he mind and are
meaningful only on the level of the mind. The word bread : neither can you eat nor
live by it; it
merely conveys an idea. It acquires meaning only with the actual eating. In the
same sense am I
telling you that the Normal State is not verbal. I may say it is wise love expre
ssed in action, but
these words convey little, unless you experience them in their fullness and beau
ty.
Words have their limited usefulness, but we put no limits to them and bring ours
elves to the brink of
disaster. Our noble ideas are finely balanced by ignoble actions. We talk of God
, Truth and Love,
but instead of direct experience we have definitions. Instead of enlarging and d
eepening action we
chisel our definitions. And we imagine that we know what we can define!
Q: How can one convey experience except through words?
M: Experience cannot be conveyed through words. It comes with action. A man who
is intense in
his experience will radiate confidence and courage. Others too will act and gain
experience born out
of action. Verbal teaching has its use, it prepares the mind for voiding itself
of its accumulations.
A level of mental maturity is reached when nothing external is of any value and
the heart is ready to
relinquish all. Then the real has a chance and it grasps it. Delays, if any, are
caused by the mind
being unwilling to see or to discard.
Q: Are we so totally alone?
M: Oh, no, we are not. Those who have, can give. And such givers are many. The w
orld itself is a
supreme gift, maintained by loving sacrifice. But the right receivers, wise and
humble, are so few.
'Ask and you shall be given' is the eternal law.
So many words you have learnt, so many you have spoken. You know everything, but
you do not
know yourself. For the self is not known through words -- only direct insight wi
ll reveal it. Look
within, search within.
Q: It is very difficult to abandon words. Our mental life is one continuous stre
am of words.
M: It is not a matter of easy, or difficult. You have no alternative. Either you
try or you don't. It is up
to you.
Q: I have tried many times and failed.
M: Try again. If you keep on trying, something may happen. But if you don't, you
are stuck. You
may know all the right words, quote the scriptures, be brilliant in your discuss
ions and yet remain a
bag of bones. Or you may be inconspicuous and humble, an insignificant person al
together, yet
glowing with loving kindness and deep wisdom.
99. The Perceived can not be the Perceiver
Questioner: I have been moving from place to place investigating the various Yog
as available for
practice and I could not decide which will suit me best. I should be thankful fo
r some competent
advice. At present, as a result of all this searching, I am just tired of the id
ea of finding truth. It
seems to me, both unnecessary and troublesome. Life is enjoyable as it is and I
see no purpose in
improving on it.
Maharaj: You are welcome to stay in your contentment, but can you? Youth, vigour
, money -- all
will pass away sooner than you expect. Sorrow, shunned so far, will pursue you.
If you want to be
beyond suffering, you must meet it half way and embrace it. Relinquish your habi
ts and addictions,
live a simple and sober life, don't hurt a living being; this is the foundation
of Yoga. To find reality
you must be real in the smallest daily action; there can be no deceit in the sea
rch for truth. You say
you find your life enjoyable. Maybe it is -- at present. But who enjoys it?
Q: I confess I do not know the enjoyer nor the enjoyed. I only know the enjoymen
t.
M: Quite right. But enjoyment is a state of mind -- it comes and goes. Its very
impermanence
makes it perceivable. You cannot be conscious of what does not change. All consc
iousness is
consciousness of change. But the very perception of change -- does it not necess
itate a changeless
background?
Q: Not at all. The memory of the last state -- compared to the actuality of the
present state gives
the experience of change.
M: Between the remembered and the actual there is a basic difference which can b
e observed
from moment to moment. At no point of time is the actual the remembered. Between
the two there
is a difference in kind, not merely in intensity. The actual is unmistakably so.
By no effort of will or
imagination can you interchange the two. Now, what is it that gives this unique
quality to the actual?
Q: The actual is real, while there is a good deal of uncertainty about the remem
bered.
M: Quite so, but why? A moment back the remembered was actual, in a moment the a
ctual will be
the remembered. What makes the actual unique? Obviously, it is your sense of bei
ng present. In
memory and anticipation there is a clear feeling that it is a mental state under
observation, while in
the actual the feeling is primarily of being present and aware.
Q: Yes I can see. It is awareness that makes the difference between the actual a
nd the
remembered. One thinks of the past or the future, but one is present in the now.
M: Wherever you go, the sense of here and now you carry with you all the time. I
t means that you
are independent of space and time, that space and time are in you, not you in th
em. It is your self-
identification with the body, which, of course, is limited in space and time, th
at gives you the feeling
of finiteness. In reality you are infinite and eternal.
Q: This infinite and eternal self of mine, how am I to know it?
M: The self you want to know, is it some second self? Are you made of several se
lves? Surely,
there is only one self and you are that self. The self you are is the only self
there is. Remove and
abandon your wrong ideas about yourself and there it is, in all its glory. It is
only your mind that
prevents self-knowledge.
Q: How am I to be rid of the mind? And is life without mind at all possible on t
he human level?
M: There is no such thing as mind. There are ideas and some of them are wrong. A
bandon the
wrong ideas, for they are false and obstruct your vision of yourself.
Q: Which ideas are wrong and which are true?
M: Assertions are usually wrong and denials -- right.
Q: One cannot live by denying everything!
M: Only by denying can one live. Assertion is bondage. To question and deny is n
ecessary. It is the
essence of revolt and without revolt there can be no freedom.
There is no second, or higher self to search for. You are the highest self, only
give up the false
ideas you have about your self. Both faith and reason tell you that you are neit
her the body, nor its
desires and fears, nor are you the mind with its fanciful ideas, nor the role so
ciety compels you to
play, the person you are supposed to be. Give up the false and the true will com
e into its own.
You say you want to know your self. You are your self -- you cannot be anything
but what you are.
Is knowing separate from being? Whatever you can know with your mind is of the m
ind, not you;
about yourself you can only say: 'I am, I am aware, I like It'.
Q: I find being alive a painful state.
M: You cannot be alive for you are life itself. It is the person you imagine you
rself to be that suffers,
not you. Dissolve it in awareness. It is merely a bundle of memories and habits.
From the
awareness of the unreal to the awareness of your real nature there is a chasm wh
ich you will easily
cross, once you have mastered the art of pure awareness.
Q: All I know is that I do not know myself.
M: How do you know, that you do not know your self? Your direct insight tells yo
u that yourself you
know first, for nothing exists to you without your being there to experience its
existence. You
imagine you do not know your self, because you cannot describe your self. You ca
n always say: 'I
know that I am' and you will refuse as untrue the statement: 'I am not'. But wha
tever can be
described cannot be your self, and what you are cannot be described. You can onl
y know your self
by being yourself without any attempt at self-definition and self-description. O
nce you have
understood that you are nothing perceivable or conceivable, that whatever appear
s in the field of
consciousness cannot be your self, you will apply yourself to the eradication of
all self-identification,
as the only way that can take you to a deeper realisation of your self. You lite
rally progress by
rejection -- a veritable rocket. To know that you are neither in the body nor in
the mind, though
aware of both, is already self-knowledge.
Q: If I am neither the body nor mind, how am I aware of them? How can I perceive
something
quite foreign to myself?
M: 'Nothing is me,' is the first step. 'Everything is me' is the next. Both hang
on the idea: 'there is a
world'. When this too is given up, you remain what you are -- the non-dual Self.
You are it here and
now, but your vision is obstructed by your false ideas about your self.
Q: Well, I admit that I am, I was, I shall be; at least from birth to death. I h
ave no doubts of my
being, here and now. But I find that it is not enough. My life lacks joy, born o
f harmony between the
inner and the outer. If I alone am and the world is merely a protection, then wh
y is there
disharmony?
M: You create disharmony and then complain! When you desire and fear, and identi
fy yourself with
your feelings, you create sorrow and bondage. When you create, with love and wis
dom, and remain
unattached to your creations, the result is harmony and peace. But whatever be t
he condition of
your mind, in what way does it reflect on you? It is only your self-identificati
on with your mind that
makes you happy or unhappy. Rebel against your slavery to your mind, see your bo
nds as self-
created and break the chains of attachment and revulsion. Keep in mind your goal
of freedom, until
it dawns on you that you are already free, that freedom is not something in the
distant future to be
earned with painful efforts, but perennially one's own, to be used! Liberation i
s not an acquisition but
a matter of courage, the courage to believe that you are free already and to act
on it.
Q: If I do as I like, I shall have to suffer.
M: Nevertheless, you are free. The consequences of your action will depend on th
e society in
which you live and its conventions.
Q: I may act recklessly.
M: Along with courage will emerge wisdom and compassion and skill in action. You
will know what
to do and whatever you do will be good for all.
Q: I find that the various aspects of myself are at war between themselves and t
here is no peace
in me. Where are freedom and courage, wisdom and compassion? My actions merely i
ncrease the
chasm in which I exist.
M: It is all so, because you take yourself to be somebody, or something. Stop, l
ook, investigate,
ask the right questions, come to the right conclusions and have the courage to a
ct on them and see
what happens. The first steps may bring the roof down on your head, but soon the
commotion will
clear and there will be peace and joy. You know so many things about yourself, b
ut the knower you
do not know. Find out who you are, the knower of the known. Look within diligent
ly, remember to
remember that the perceived cannot be the perceiver. Whatever you see, hear or t
hink of,
remember -- you are not what happens, you are he to whom it happens. Delve deepl
y into the
sense 'I am' and you will surely discover that the perceiving centre is universa
l, as universal as the
light that illumines the world. All that happens in the universe happens to you,
the silent witness. On
the other hand, whatever is done, is done by you, the universal and inexhaustibl
e energy.
Q: It is, no doubt, very gratifying to hear that one is the silent witness as we
ll as the universal
energy. But how is one to cross over from a verbal statement to direct knowledge
? Hearing is not
knowing.
M: Before you can know anything directly, non-verbally, you must know the knower
. So far, you
took the mind for the knower, but it is just not so. The mind clogs you up with
images and ideas,
which leave scars in memory. You take remembering to be knowledge. True knowledg
e is ever
fresh, new, unexpected. It wells up from within. When you know what you are, you
also are what
you know. Between knowing and being there is no gap.
Q: I can only investigate the mind with the mind.
M: By all means use your mind to know your mind. It is perfectly legitimate and
also the best
preparation for going beyond the mind. Being, knowing and enjoying is your own.
First realise your
own being. This is easy because the sense 'I am' is always with you. Then meet y
ourself as the
knower, apart from the known. Once you know yourself as pure being, the ecstasy
of freedom is
your own.
Q: Which Yoga is this?
M: Why worry? What makes you come here is your being displeased with your life a
s you know it,
the life of your body and mind. You may try to improve them, through controlling
and bending them
to an ideal, or you may cut the knot of self-identification altogether and look
at your body and mind
as something that happens without committing you in any way.
Q: Shall I call the way of control and discipline raja yoga and the way of detac
hment -- jnana
yoga? And the worship of an ideal -- bhakti yoga?
M: If it pleases you. Words indicate, but do not explain. What I teach is the an
cient and simple way
of liberation through understanding. Understand your own mind and its hold on yo
u will snap. The
mind misunderstands, misunderstanding is its very nature. Right understanding is
the only remedy,
whatever name you give it. It is the earliest and also the latest, for it deals
with the mind as it is.
Nothing you do will change you, for you need no change. You may change your mind
or your body,
but it is always something external to you that has changed, not yourself. Why b
other at all to
change? realise once for all that neither your body nor your mind, nor even your
consciousness is
yourself and stand alone in your true nature beyond consciousness and unconsciou
sness. No effort
can take you there, only the clarity of understanding. Trace your misunderstandi
ngs and abandon
them, that is all. There is nothing to seek and find, for there is nothing lost.
Relax and watch the 'I
am'. Reality is just behind it. Keep quiet, keep silent; it will emerge, or, rat
her, it will take you in.
Q: Must I not get rid of my body and mind first?
M: You cannot, for the very idea binds you to them. Just understand and disregar
d.
Q: I am unable to disregard, for I am not integrated.
M: Imagine you are completely integrated, your thought and action fully co-ordin
ated. How will it
help you? It will not free you from mistaking yourself to be the body or the min
d. See them correctly
as 'not you', that is all.
Q: You want me to remember to forget!
M: Yes, it looks so. Yet, it is not hopeless. You can do it. Just set about it i
n earnest. Your blind
groping is full of promise. Your very searching is the finding. You cannot fail.
Q: Because we are disintegrated, we suffer.
M: We shall suffer as long as our thoughts and actions are prompted by desires a
nd fears. See
their futility and the danger and chaos they create will subside. Don't try to r
eform yourself, just see
the futility of all change. The changeful keeps on changing while the changeless
is waiting. Do not
expect the changeful, to take you to the changeless -- it can never happen. Only
when the very idea
of changing is seen as false and abandoned, the changeless can come into its own
.
Q: Everywhere I go, l am told that I must change profoundly before I can see the
real. This
process of deliberate, self-imposed change is called Yoga.
M: All change affects the mind only. To be what you are, you must go beyond the
mind, into your
own being. It is immaterial what is the mind that you leave behind, provided you
leave it behind for
good. This again is not possible without self-realisation.
Q: What comes first -- the abandoning of the mind or self-realisation?
M:. Self-realisation definitely comes first. The mind cannot go beyond itself by
itself. It must explode.
Q: No exploration before explosion?
M: The explosive power comes from the real. But you are well advised to have you
r mind ready for
it. Fear can always delay it, until another opportunity arises.
Q: I thought there is always a chance.
M: In theory -- yes. In practice a situation must arise, when all the factors ne
cessary for self-
realisation are present. This need not I discourage you. Your dwelling on the fa
ct of 'I am' will soon
create another chance. For, attitude attracts opportunity. All you know is secon
d-hand. Only I am' is
first-hand and needs no proofs. Stay with it.
100. Understanding leads to Freedom
Questioner: In many countries of the world investigating officers follow certain
practices aimed at
extracting confessions from their victim and also changing his personality, if n
eeded. By a judicious
choice of physical and moral deprivations and by persuasions the old personality
is broken down
and a new personality established in its place. The man under investigation hear
s so many times
repeated that he is an enemy of the State and a traitor to his country, that a d
ay comes when
something breaks down in him and he begins to feel with full conviction that he
is a traitor, a rebel,
altogether despicable and deserving the direst punishment. This process is known
as brain-washing.
It struck me that the religious and Yogic practices are very similar to 'brain-w
ashing'. The same
physical and mental deprivation, solitary confinement, a powerful sense of sin,
despair and a desire
to escape through expiation and conversion, adoption of a new image of oneself a
nd impersonating
that image. The same repetition of set formulas: 'God is good; the Guru (party)
knows; faith will
save me.' In the so-called Yogic or religious practices the same mechanism opera
tes. The mind is
made to concentrate on some particular idea to the exclusion of all other ideas
and concentration is
powerfully reinforced by rigid discipline and painful austerities. A high price
in life and happiness is
paid and what one gets in return appears therefore, to be of great importance. T
his prearranged
conversion, obvious or hidden, religious or political, ethical or social, may lo
ok genuine and lasting,
yet there is a feeling of artificiality about it.
Maharaj: You are quite right. By undergoing so many hardships the mind gets disl
ocated and
immobilised. Its condition becomes precarious; whatever it undertakes, ends in a
deeper bondage.
Q: Then why are sadhanas prescribed?
M: Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not be convinced that effort wil
l take you
nowhere. The self is so self confident, that unless it is totally discouraged, i
t will not give up. Mere
verbal conviction is not enough. Hard facts alone can show the absolute nothingn
ess of the self-
image.
Q: The brain-washer drives me mad, and the Guru drives me sane. The driving is s
imilar. Yet the
motive and the purpose are totally different. The similarities are, perhaps mere
ly verbal.
M: Inviting, or compelling to suffer contains in it violence and the fruit of vi
olence cannot be sweet.
There are certain life situations, inevitably painful, and you have to take them
in your stride. There
are also certain situations which you have created, either deliberately or by ne
glect. And from these
you have to learn a lesson so that they are not repeated again.
Q: It seems that we must suffer, so that we learn to overcome pain.
M: Pain has to be endured. There is no such thing as overcoming the pain and no
training is
needed. Training for the future, developing attitudes is a sign of fear.
Q: Once I know how to face pain, I am free of it, not afraid of it, and therefor
e happy. This is what
happens to a prisoner. He accepts his punishment as just and proper and is at pe
ace with the
prison authorities and the State. All religions do nothing else but preach accep
tance and surrender.
We are being encouraged to plead guilty, to feel responsible for all the evils i
n the world and point at
ourselves as their only cause. My problem is: I cannot see much difference betwe
en brain-washing
and sadhana, except that in the case of sadhana one is not physically constraine
d. The element of
compulsive suggestion is present in both.
M: As you have said, the similarities are superficial. You need not harp on them
.
Q: Sir, the similarities are not superficial. Man is a complex being and can be
at the same time the
accuser and the accused, the judge, the warden and the executioner. There is not
much that is
voluntary in a 'voluntary' sadhana. One is moved by forces beyond one's ken and
control. I can
change my mental metabolism as little as the physical, except by painful and pro
tracted efforts --
which is Yoga. All I am asking is: does Maharaj agree with me that Yoga implies
violence?
M: I agree that Yoga, as presented by you, means violence and I never advocate a
ny form of
violence. My path is totally non-violent. I mean exactly what I say: non-violent
. Find out for yourself
what it is. I merely say: it is non-violent.
Q: I am not misusing words. When a Guru asks me to meditate sixteen hours a day
for the rest of
my life, I cannot do it without extreme violence to myself. Is such a Guru right
or wrong?
M: None compels you to meditate sixteen hours a day, unless you feel like doing
so. It is only a
way of telling you: 'remain with yourself, don't get lost among others'. The tea
cher will wait, but the
mind is impatient.
It is not the teacher, it is the mind that is violent and also afraid of its own
violence. What is of the
mind is relative, it is a mistake to make it into an absolute.
Q: If I remain passive, nothing will change. If I am active, I must be violent.
What is it I can do
which is neither sterile nor violent?
M: Of course, there is a way which is neither violent nor sterile and yet suprem
ely effective. Just
look at yourself as you are, see yourself as you are, accept yourself as you are
and go ever deeper
into what you are. Violence and non-violence describe your attitude to others; t
he self in relation to
itself is neither violent nor non-violent, it is either aware or unaware of itse
lf. If it knows itself, all it
does will be right; if it does not, all it does will be wrong.
Q: What do you mean by saying: I know myself as I am?
M: Before the mind -- I am. 'I am' is not a thought in the mind; the mind happen
s to me, I do not
happen to the mind. And since time and space are in the mind, I am beyond time a
nd space, eternal
and omnipresent.
Q: Are you serious? Do you really mean that you exist everywhere and at all time
s?
M: Yes, I do. To me it is as obvious, as the freedom of movement is to you. Imag
ine a tree asking a
monkey: 'Do you seriously mean that you can move from place to place?' And the m
onkey saying:
'Yes. I do.'
Q: Are you also free from causality? Can you produce miracles?
M: The world itself is a miracle. I am beyond miracles -- I am absolutely normal
. With me
everything happens as it must. I do not interfere with creation. Of what use are
small miracles to me
when the greatest of miracles is happening all the time? Whatever you see it is
always your own
being that you see. Go ever deeper into yourself, seek within, there is neither
violence nor non-
violence in self-discovery. The destruction of the false is not violence.
Q: When I practice self-enquiry, or go within with the idea that it will profit
me in some way or
other, I am still escaping from what I am.
M: Quite right. True enquiry is always into something, not out of something. Whe
n I enquire how to
get, or avoid something, I am not really inquiring. To know anything I must acce
pt it -- totally.
Q: Yes, to know God I must accept God -- how frightening!
M: Before you can accept God, you must accept yourself, which is even more frigh
tening. The first
steps in self acceptance are not at all pleasant, for what one sees is not a hap
py sight. One needs
all the courage to go further. What helps is silence. Look at yourself in total
silence, do not describe
yourself. Look at the being you believe you are and remember -- you are not what
you see. 'This I
am not -- what am l?' is the movement of self-enquiry. There are no other means
to liberation, all
means delay. Resolutely reject what you are not, till the real Self emerges in i
ts glorious
nothingness, its 'not-a-thingness.'
Q: The world is passing through rapid and critical changes. We can see them with
great clarity in
the United States, though they happen in other countries. There is an increase i
n crime on one
hand and more genuine holiness on the other. Communities are being formed and so
me of them
are on a very high level of integrity and austerity. It looks as if evil is dest
roying itself by its own
successes, like a fire which consumes its fuel, while the good, like life, perpe
tuates itself.
M: As long as you divide events into good and evil, you may be right. In fact, g
ood becomes evil
and evil becomes good by their own fulfilment.
Q: What about love?
M: When it turns to lust, it becomes destructive.
Q: What is lust?
M: Remembering -- imagining -- anticipating. It is sensory and verbal. A form of
addiction.
Q: Is brahmacharya, continence, imperative in Yoga?
M: A life of constraint and suppression is not Yoga. Mind must be free of desire
s and relaxed. It
comes with understanding, not with determination, which is but another form of m
emory. An
understanding mind is free of desires and fears.
Q: How can I make myself understand?
M: By meditating which means giving attention. Become fully aware of your proble
m, look at it from
all sides, watch how it affects your life. Then leave it alone. You can't do mor
e than that.
Q: Will it set me free?
M: You are free from what you have understood. The outer expressions of freedom
may take time
to appear, but they are already there. Do not expect perfection. There is no per
fection in
manifestation. Details must clash. No problem is solved completely, but you can
withdraw from it to
a level on which it does not operate.
101. Jnani does not Grasp, nor Hold
Questioner: How does the jnani proceed when he needs something to be done? Does
he make
plans, decide about details and execute them?
Maharaj: Jnani understands a situation fully and knows at once what needs be don
e. That is all.
The rest happens by itself, and to a large extent unconsciously. The jnani s ident
ity with all that is, is
so complete, that as he responds to the universe, so does the universe respond t
o him. He is
supremely confident that once a situation has been cognised, events will move in
adequate
response. The ordinary man is personally concerned, he counts his risks and chan
ces, while the
jnani remains aloof, sure that all will happen as it must; and it does not matte
r much what happens,
for ultimately the return to balance and harmony is inevitable. The heart of thi
ngs is at peace.
Q: I have understood that personality is an illusion, and alert detachment, with
out loss of identity,
is our point of contact with the reality. Will you, please, tell me -- at this m
oment are you a person or
a self-aware identity?
M: I am both. But the real self cannot be described except in terms supplied by
the person, in terms
of what I am not. All you can tell about the person is not the self, and you can
tell nothing about the
self, which would not refer to the person; as it is, as it could be, as it shoul
d be. All attributes are
personal. The real is beyond all attributes.
Q: Are you sometimes the self and sometimes the person?
M: How can I be? The person is what I appear to be to other persons. To myself I
am the infinite
expanse of consciousness in which innumerable persons emerge and disappear in en
dless
succession.
Q: How is it that the person, which to you is quite illusory, appears real to us
?
M: You, the self, being the root of all being, consciousness and joy, impart you
r reality to whatever
you perceive. This imparting of reality takes place invariably in the now, at no
other time, because
past and future are only in the mind. Being' applies to the now only.
Q: Is not eternity endless too?
M: Time is endless, though limited, eternity is In the split moment of the now.
We miss it because
the mind is ever shuttling between the past and the future. It will not stop to
focus the now. It can be
done with comparative ease, if interest is aroused.
Q: What arouses interest?
M: Earnestness, the sign of maturity.
Q: And how does maturity come about?
M: By keeping your mind clear and clean, by living your life in full awareness o
f every moment as it
happens, by examining and dissolving one's desires and fears as soon as they ari
se.
Q: Is such concentration at all possible?
M: Try. One step at a time is easy. Energy flows from earnestness.
Q: I find I am not earnest enough.
M: Self-betrayal is a grievous matter. It rots the mind like cancer. The remedy
lies in clarity and
integrity of thinking. Try to understand that you live in a world of illusions,
examine them and
uncover their roots. The very attempt to do so will make you earnest, for there
is bliss in right
endeavour.
Q: Where will it lead me?
M: Where can it lead you if not to its own perfection? Once you are well-establi
shed in the now,
you have nowhere else to go what you are timelessly, you express eternally.
Q: Are you one or many?
M: I am one, but appear as many.
Q: Why does one appear at all?
M: It is good to be, and to be conscious.
Q: Life is sad.
M: Ignorance causes sorrow. Happiness follows understanding.
Q: Why should ignorance be painful?
M: It is at the root of all desire and fear, which are painful states and the so
urce of endless errors.
Q: I have seen people supposed to have realised, laughing and crying. Does it no
t show that they
are not free of desire and fear?
M: They may laugh and cry according to circumstances, but inwardly they are cool
and clear,
watching detachedly their own spontaneous reactions. Appearances are misleading
and more so in
the case of a jnani.
Q: I do not understand you.
M: The mind cannot understand, for the mind is trained for grasping and holding
while the jnani is
not-grasping and not holding.
Q: What am I holding on to, which you do not?
M: You are a creature of memories; at least you imagine yourself to be so. I am
entirely
unimagined. I am what I am, not identifiable with any physical or mental state.
Q: An accident would destroy your equanimity.
M: The strange fact is that it does not. To my own surprise, I remain as I am --
pure awareness,
alert to all that happens.
Q: Even at the Moment of death?
M: What is it to me that the body dies?
Q: Don't you need it to contact the world?
M: I do not need the world. Nor am I in one. The world you think of is in your o
wn mind. I can see it
through your eyes and mind, but I am fully aware that it is a projection of memo
ries; it is touched by
the real only at the point of awareness, which can be only now.
Q: The only difference between us seems to be that while I keep on saying that I
do not know my
real self, you maintain that you know it well; is there any other difference bet
ween us?
M: There is no difference between us; nor can I say that I know myself, I know t
hat I am not
describable nor definable. There is a vastness beyond the farthest reaches of th
e mind. That
vastness is my home; that vastness is myself. And that vastness is also love.
Q: You see love everywhere, while I see hatred and suffering. The history of hum
anity is the
history of murder, individual and collective. No other living being so delights
in killing.
M: If you go into the motives, you will find love, love of oneself and of one's
own. People fight for
what they imagine they love.
Q: Surely their love must be real enough when they are ready to die for it.
M: Love is boundless. What is limited to a few cannot be called love.
Q: Do you know such unlimited love?
M: Yes, l do.
Q: How does it feel?
M: All is loved and lovable. Nothing is excluded.
Q: Not even the ugly and the criminal?
M: All is within my consciousness; all is my own. It is madness to split oneself
through likes and
dislikes. I am beyond both. I am not alienated.
Q: To be free from like and dislike is a state of indifference.
M: It may look and feel so in the beginning. Persevere in such indifference and
it will blossom into
an all-pervading and all-embracing love.
Q: One has such moments when the mind becomes a flower and a flame, but they do
not last and
the life reverts to its daily greyness.
M: Discontinuity is the law, when you deal with the concrete: The continuous can
not be
experienced, for it has no borders. Consciousness implies alterations, change fo
llowings change,
when one thing or state comes to an end and another begins; that which has no bo
rderline cannot
be experienced in the common meaning of the word. One can only be it, without kn
owing, but one
can know what it is not. It is definitely not the entire content of consciousnes
s which is always on
the move.
Q: If the immovable cannot be known, what is the meaning and purpose of its real
isation?
M: To realise the immovable means to become immovable. And the purpose is the go
od of all that
lives.
Q: Life is movement. Immobility is death. Of what use is death to life?
M: I am talking of immovability, not of immobility. You become immovable in reti
cence. You
become a power which gets all things right. It may or may not imply intense outw
ard activity, but the
mind remains deep and quiet.
Q: As I watch my mind I find it changing all the time, mood succeeding mood in i
nfinite variety,
while you seem to be perpetually in the same mood of cheerful benevolence.
M: Moods are in the mind and do not matter. Go within, go beyond. Cease being fa
scinated by the
content of your consciousness. When you reach the deep layers of your true being
, you will find that
the mind's surface-play affects you very little.
Q: There will be play all the same?
M: A quiet mind is not a dead mind.
Q: Consciousness is always in movement -- it is an observable fact. Immovable co
nsciousness is
a contradiction. When you talk of a quiet mind, what is it? Is not mind the same
as consciousness?
M: We must remember that words are used in many ways, according to the context.
The fact is that
there is little difference between the conscious and the unconscious --- they ar
e essentially the
same. The waking state differs from deep sleep in the presence of the witness. A
ray of awareness
illumines a part of our mind and that part becomes our dream or waking conscious
ness, while
awareness appears as the witness. The witness usually knows only consciousness.
Sadhana
consists in the witness turning back first on his conscious, then upon himself i
n his own awareness.
Self-awareness is Yoga.
Q: If awareness is all-pervading, then a blind man, once realised, can see?
M: You are mixing sensation with awareness. The jnani knows himself as he is. He
is also aware of
his body being crippled and his mind being deprived of a range of sensory percep
tions. But he is
not affected by the availability of eyesight, nor by its absence.
Q: My question is more specific; when a blind man becomes a jnani will his eyesi
ght be restored to
him or not?
M: Unless his eyes and brain undergo a renovation, how can he see?
Q: But will they undergo a renovation?
M: They may or may not. It all depends on destiny and grace. But a jnani command
s a mode of
spontaneous, non-sensory perception, which makes him know things directly, witho
ut the
intermediary of the senses. He is beyond the perceptual and the conceptual, beyo
nd the categories
of time and space, name and shape. He is neither the perceived nor the perceiver
, but the simple
and the universal factor that makes perceiving possible. Reality is within consc
iousness, but it is not
consciousness nor any of its contents.
Q: What is false, the world, or my knowledge of it?
M: Is there a world outside your knowledge? Can you go beyond what you know? You
may
postulate a world beyond the
mind, but it will remain a concept, unproved and unprovable. Your experience is
your proof, and it is
valid for you only. Who else can have your experience, when the other person is
only as real as he
appears in your experience?
Q: Am I so hopelessly lonely?
M: You are. as a person. In your real being vow are the whole.
Q: Are you a part of the world which I have in consciousness, or are you indepen
dent?
M: What you see is yours and what I see is mine. The two have little in common.
Q: There must be some common factor which unites us.
M: To find the common factor you must abandon all distinctions. Only the univers
al is in common.
Q: What strikes me as exceedingly strange is that while you say that I am merely
a product of my
memories and woefully limited, I create a vast and rich world in which. everythi
ng is contained,
including you and your teaching. How this vastness is created and contained in m
y smallness is
what I find hard to understand. May be you are giving me the whole truth, but I
am grasping only a
small part of it.
M: Yet, it is a fact -- the small projects the whole, but it cannot contain the
whole. However great
and complete is your world it is self-contradictory and transitory and altogethe
r illusory.
Q: It may be illusory yet it is marvellous. When I look and listen, touch, smell
and taste, think and
feel, remember and imagine, I cannot but be astonished at my miraculous creativi
ty. I look through
a microscope or telescope and see wonders, I follow the track of an atom and hea
r the whisper of
the stars. If I am the sole creator of all this, then I am God indeed! But if I
am God, why do I appear
so small and helpless to myself?
M: You are God, but you do not know it.
Q: If I am God, then the world I create must be true.
M: It is true in essence, but not in appearance. Be free of desires and fears an
d at once your vision
will clear and you shall see all things as they are. Or, you may say that the sa
toguna creates the
world, the tamoguna obscures it and the rajoguna distorts.
Q: This does not tell me much, because if I ask what are the gunas, the answer w
ill be: what
creates -- what obscures -- what distorts. The fact remains -- something unbelie
vable happened to
me, and I do not understand what has happened, how and why.
M: Well, wonder is the dawn of wisdom. To be steadily and consistently wondering
is sadhana.
Q: I am in a world which I do not understand and therefore, I am afraid of it. T
his is everybody's
experience.
M: You have separated yourself from the world, therefore it pains and frightens
you. Discover your
mistake and be free of fear.
Q: You are asking me to give up the world, while I want to be happy in the world
.
M: If you ask for the impossible, who can help you? The limited is bound to be p
ainful and pleasant
in turns. If you seek real happiness, unassailable and unchangeable, you must le
ave the world with
its pains and pleasures behind you.
Q: How is it done?
M: Mere physical renunciation is only a token of earnestness, but earnestness al
one does not
liberate. There must be understanding which comes with alert perceptivity, eager
enquiry and deep
investigation. You must work relentlessly for your salvation from sin and sorrow
.
Q: What is sin?
M: All that binds you.
Appendix-1: Nisarga Yoga
In the humble abode of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, but for the electric lights and
the noises of the
street traffic, one would not know in which period of human history one dwells.
There is an
atmosphere of timelessness about his tiny room; the subjects discussed are timel
ess -- valid for all
times; the way they are expounded and examined is also timeless; the centuries,
millennia and
yugas fall off and one deals with matters immensely ancient and eternally new.
The discussions held and teachings given would have been the same ten thousand y
ears ago and
will be the same ten thousand years hence. There will always be conscious beings
wondering about
the fact of their being conscious and enquiring into its cause and aim. Whence a
m I? Who am I?
Whither am I? Such questions have no beginning and no end. And it is crucial to
know the answers,
for without a full understanding of oneself, both in time and in timelessness, l
ife is but a dream,
imposed on us by powers we do not know, for purposes we cannot grasp.
Maharaj is not a learned. There is no erudition behind his homely Marathi; autho
rities he does not
quote, scriptures are rarely mentioned; the astonishingly rich spiritual heritag
e of India is implicit in
him rather than explicit. No rich Ashram was ever built around him and most of h
is followers are
humble working people cherishing the opportunity of spending an hour with him fr
om time to time.
Simplicity and humility are the keynotes of his life and teachings; physically a
nd inwardly he never
takes the higher seat; the essence of being on which he talks, he sees in others
as clearly as he
sees it in himself. He admits that while he is aware of it, others are not yet,
but this difference is
temporary and of little importance, except to the mind and its ever-changing con
tent. When asked
about his Yoga, he says he has none to offer, no system t propound, no theology,
cosmology,
psychology or philosophy. He knows the real nature -- his own and his listeners -
- and he points it
out. The listener cannot see it because he cannot see the obvious, simply and di
rectly. All he
knows, he knows with his mind, stimulated with the senses. That the mind is a se
nse in itself, he
does not even suspect.
The Nisarga Yoga, the natural Yoga of Maharaj, is disconcertingly simple -- the mi
nd, which is all-
becoming, must recognise and penetrate its own being, not as being this or that,
here or there, then
or now, but just as timeless being.
This timeless being is the source of both life and consciousness. In terms of ti
me, space and
causation it is all-powerful, being the causeless cause; all-pervading, eternal,
in the sense of being
beginningless, endless and ever-present. Uncaused, it is free; all-pervading, it
knows; undivided, it
is happy. It lives, it loves, and it has endless fun, shaping and re-shaping the
universe. Every man
has it, every man is it, but not all know themselves as they are, and therefore
identify themselves
with the name and shape of their bodies and the contents of their consciousness.
To rectify this misunderstanding of one s reality, the only way is to take full co
gnisance of the ways
of one s mind and to turn it into an instrument of self-discovery. The mind was or
iginally a tool in the
struggle for biological survival. It had to learn the laws and ways of Nature wo
rking hand-in-hand
can raise life to a higher level. But, in the process the mind acquired the art
of symbolic thinking and
communication, the art and skill of language. Words became important. Ideas and
abstractions
acquired an appearance of reality, the conceptual replaced the real, with the re
sult that man now
lives in a verbal world, crowded with words and dominated by words.
Obviously, for dealing with things and people words are exceedingly useful. But
they make us live in
a world totally symbolic and, therefore, unreal. To break out from this prison o
f the verbal mind into
reality, one must be able to shift one s focus from the word to what it refers to,
the thing itself.
The most commonly used word and most pregnant with feelings, and ideas is the wo
rd I . Mind
tends to include in it anything and everything, the body as well as the Absolute
. In practice it stands
as a pointer to an experience which is direct, immediate and immensely significa
nt. To be, and to
know that one is, is most important. And to be of interest, a thing must be rela
ted to one s conscious
existence, which is the focal point of every desire and fear. For, the ultimate
aim of every desire is
to enhance and intensify this sense of existence, while all fear is, in its esse
nce, the fear of self-
extinction.
To delve into the sense of I -- so real and vital -- in order to reach its source
is the core of Nisarga
Yoga. Not being continuous, the sense of I must have a source from which it flows
and to which it
returns. This timeless source of conscious being is what Maharaj calls the self-
nature, self-being,
swarupa.
As to the methods of realising one s supreme identity with self-being, Maharaj is
peculiarly non-
committal. He says that each has his own way to reality, and that there can be n
o general rule. But,
for all the gateway to reality, by whatever road one arrives to it, is the sense
of I am . It is through
grasping the full import of the I am , and going beyond it to its source, that one
can realise the
supreme state, which is also the primordial and the ultimate. The difference bet
ween the beginning
and the end lies only in the mind. When the mind is dark or turbulent, the sourc
e is not perceived.
When it is clear and luminous, it becomes a faithful reflection of the source. T
he source is always
the same -- beyond darkness and light, beyond life and death, beyond the conscio
us and the
unconscious.
This dwelling on the sense I am is the simple, easy and natural Yoga, the Nisarga
Yoga. There is
no secrecy in it and no dependence; no preparation is required and no initiation
. Whoever is
puzzled by his very existence as a conscious being and earnestly wants to find h
is own source, can
grasp the ever-present sense of I am and dwell on it assiduously and patiently, ti
ll the clouds
obscuring the mind dissolve and the heart of being is seen in all its glory.
The Nisarga Yoga, when persevered in and brought to its fruition, results in one
becoming
conscious and active in what one always was unconsciously and passively. There i
s no difference
in kind -- only in manner -- the difference between a lump of gold and a gloriou
s ornament shaped
out of it. Life goes on, but it is spontaneous and free, meaningful and happy.
Maharaj most lucidly describes this natural, spontaneous state, but as the man b
orn blind cannot
visualise light and colours, so is the unenlightened mind unable to give meaning
to such
descriptions. Expressions like dispassionate happiness, affectionate detachment,
timelessness and
causelessness of things and being -- they all sound strange and cause no respons
e. Intuitively we
feel they have a deep meaning, and they even create in us a strange longing for
the ineffable, a
forerunner of things to come, but that is all. As Maharaj puts it: words are poi
nters, they show the
direction but they will not come along with us. Truth is the fruit of earnest ac
tion, words merely point
the way.
Maurice Frydman
Appendix-2: Navnath Sampradaya
Hinduism comprises numerous sects, creeds and cults and the origin of most of th
em is lost in
antiquity. The Nath Sampradaya, later known as the Navnath Sampradaya, is one of
them. Some
scholars are of the view that this sect originated with the teachings of the myt
hical Rishi Dattatreya,
who is believed to be a combined incarnation of the holy trinity of Brahma, Vish
nu and Shiva. The
unique spiritual attainments of this legendary figure are mentioned in the Bhaga
vata Purana, the
Mahabharata and also in some later Upanishads. Others hold that it is an offshoo
t of the Hatha
Yoga.
Whatever be its origin, the teachings of the Nath Sampradaya have, over the cent
uries, become
labyrinthine in complexity and have assumed different forms in different parts o
f India. Some Gurus
of the Sampradaya lay stress on bhakti, devotion; others on jnana, knowledge; st
ill others on yoga,
the union with the ultimate. In the fourteenth century we find Svatmarama Svami,
the great
Hathayogin, bemoaning the darkness arising out of multiplicity of opinions to disp
lel which he lit the
lamp of his famous work Hathayogapradipika.
According to some learned commentators, the Nath Gurus propound that the entire
creation is born
out of nada (sound), the divine principle, and bindu (light), the physical princ
iple and the Supreme
Reality from which these two principles emanate is Shiva. Liberation according t
o them is merging
of the soul into Shiva through the process of laya, dissolution of the human ego
, the sense of I-ness.
In the day-to-day instructions to their devotees, however, the Nath Gurus seldom
refer to the
metaphysics discovered by the scholars in their teachings. In fact their approac
h is totally non-
metaphysical, simple and direct. While the chanting of sacred hyms and devotiona
l songs as well as
the worship of the idols is a traditional feature of the sect, its teaching emph
asises that the Supreme
Reality can be realised only within the heart.
The Nath Sampradaya came to be known as Navnath Sampradaya when sometime in the
remote
past, the followers of the sect chose nine of their early Gurus as examplars of
their creed. Bur there
is no unanimity regarding the names of these nine Masters. The most widely accep
ted list however
is as follows:
1. Matsyendranath
2. Gorakhnath
3. Jalandharnath
4. Kantinath
5. Gahininath
6. Bhartrinath
7. Revananath
8. Charpatnath
9. Naganath
Of these nine Masters, Gahaninath and Revananath had large followings in the sou
thern part of
India, including Maharashtra, the state to which Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj belong
s. Revananath is
said to have founded a sub-sect of his own and chose Kadasiddha as his chief dis
ciple and
successor. The latter initiated Lingajangam Maharaj and Bhausahib Maharaj and en
trusted to their
care his Ashram and the propagation of his teaching. Bhausahib Maharaj later est
ablished what
came to be known as Inchegeri Sampradaya, a new movement within the traditional
fold. Among
his disciples were Amburao Maharaj, Girimalleshwar Maharaj, Siddharameshwar Maha
raj and the
noted philosopher Dr. R. D. Renade. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj is the direct disci
ple and successor
of Siddharameshwar Maharaj.
It may be mentioned here that, though officially the current Guru of the Inchege
ri branch of the
Navnath Sampradaya, Sri Nisargadatta does not seem to attach much importance to
sects, cults
and creeds, including his own. In answer to a questioner whi wished to join the
Navnath
Sampradaya he said: "The Navnath Sampradaya is only a tradition, a way of teachi
ng and practice.
It does not denote a level of consciousness. If you accept a Navnath Sampradaya
teacher as your
Guru, you join his Sampradaya... Your belonging is a matter of your own feeling
and conviction.
After all it is all verbal and formal. In reality there is neither Guru nor disc
iple, neither theory nor
practice, neither ignorance nor realisation. It all depends upon what you take y
ourself to be. Know
yourself correctly. There is no substitute for self-knowledge"
The teaching of Nath Sampradaya offers the seeker the royal road to liberation,
a road in which all
the four by-lanes of bhakti, jnana, karma and dhyana of Lord Shiva, in his hagio
graphy, entitled
Nathlingamrita, claims that the path shown by the Nath sect is the best of all a
nd it leads to direct
liberation.