========FILENAME========

c-corr22.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence to Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 22

Topics covered
I is a collective pronoun, cerebral, affective, sensate, magic of the actual wor
ld * expert in becoming free of the Human Condition, ASC, universal bliss

18.12.1998
RESPONDENT: I is not a singular pronoun. It is a collective pronoun. It is THE c
ollective pronoun. The only I is the I we are. Present-centered consciousness is
the God-realized activity of Self. Im wanting to avoid esoteric sentences. That
last one was too far out. We never find God because we look for God outside ours
elves or in ourselves and God is neither outside or inside but is the us. Never
mind. I wont go on. Maybe Ive provoked something for us to talk about.
VINEETO: I must admit I had your letter sitting in my Inbox for a few days, look
ing at it and being completely baffled as to what you mean by your statement.
Do you mean, that with whatever you say you speak for everyone else? Do you mean
, when I go to the toilet, everyone goes to the toilet? If God is the us, as you s
ay, why do you then call us God. Why not just call us what we are: human beings. I
f all 5.8 billion people are God, whats the point of calling them God? The outcom
e is, as you admitted, esoteric sentences. Why do you have to bring the concept of
God into the matter? But then, you have given the answer in the first part of y
our letter:
RESPONDENT: I want to simply comment on your I am the body, arent I? What else cou
ld I be? questions. I dont think those questions, however, can be answered with th
e logical brain as you are attempting to do. You seem to be leaving out all magi
c, all shamanism. Maybe youre not and Ive missed it.
VINEETO: There are three ways to experience the world: cerebral, affective and s
ensate. In the spiritual teaching there are usually only two ways mentioned cere
bral and affective. The cerebral is condemned, which leaves only one accepted wa
y to experience the world the affective. So if I am not affective, feeling I mus
t be cerebral, logical. And you seem to say that affections have the magic, love
has the magic.
I have known both the powerful emotional magic and shamanism (a very appropriate w
ord!) of Divine Love and the pure magic of Actual Freedom in various peak-experi
ences. An actual freedom from both the self and the Self reveals the magical fairy-t
ale-like innocence, purity and perfection of the physical universe. This physica
l universe is already perfect as it is only human beings, acting out their diffe

rent constructs of instinctual passions, feelings and imaginations, are not perf
ect. They kill each other every day, for exactly those instincts, feeling and im
aginations! Once you discover or re-discover the actual world as a sensate human
being, the magic is obvious, self-evident and actual. And it is pure pure becau
se there is no self or Self present or present-centred to mess things up, to control,
interpret, distort or pollute. I am simply doing what is happening, like now, I
am typing and listening to piano-lessons in the background. Delicious, thrilling
, alive, sparkling and wonderfully simple.

4.1.1999
VINEETO: I had a two weeks off since the last outbreak of objections because our
local server was out of order. And I have noticed that I now indeed prefer to w
rite on our Actual Freedom mailing list to whoever wants to continue the convers
ation.
Of course, if someone talks about a subject that twigs me I will join the conver
sation on this list, there is no promise to keep my mouth shut. So, I have no id
ea what is going to happen. But then, nobody knows what is going to happen anywa
y. Or do you? Do you know what is going to happen after you read this mail? Will
you respond or not? Will you be pissed off or bored? Or amazed? Or none of it?
We dont know what is going to happen in the next moment, and that makes life so f
ascinating ... if there is no fear, that is.
You wrote before the Christmas break:
RESPONDENT: No, I dont mean that in the physical world we live and dream in there
is no individual body which we call I, but that, in fact, the I-ness that is not
the body/mind is a shared and common consciousness. That is my current understan
ding. You have obviously gone much further in discovering and understanding thes
e questions.
VINEETO: Yes, actually, I have. As much as someone is an expert in repairing a c
ar, in selling chai or in cooking a gourmet meal, I am now an expert in becoming
free from the Human Condition because I have done it and I know how I did it.
I have become free of all those expressions of the Human Condition, and I know h
ow I did it, what method I applied, what obstacles I met on the way. Anybody who
wants to can now become free in a similar way, there is no mystery about it and
no Divine Grace required. It is all in your reach, you just have to take it int
o your hands and reclaim responsibility for your life and your deeds.
I had the experience of an altered state of consciousness and managed to come ba
ck into the actual world, and I experienced the in and out of the state of univer
sal bliss. I know how not to be seduced and trapped in either of those delusory s
tates. Free to live in this actual physical magical world, which is so enormous
in its splendour, aliveness and delicious sensuality. Any concept of God or soul
or Love would only destroy its purity and prevents you from experiencing the ac
tual world. This physical universe is so vast, it is complete and perfect in eac
h of its aspects. What a delight to be the universe experiencing itself as a sen
sate human being, through all the physical senses, without separation, day after
magic day and night after sparkling night, here, now, each moment again fresh a
nd delightful, sensuous and actual.
Seemingly, there are very few of all the 117 people on this list, who are intere
sted enough to find out about this actual, non-spiritual down-to-earth freedom.
In this New Dark Age of hundreds of new and rehashed ancient beliefs it seems ve
ry unfashionable, unpopular and threatening to investigate facts for oneself rat

her than faithfully believing what everybody else believes. Even to acknowledge
that one believes seems an impossible task for most.
Never mind, maybe one needs a crisis to question what ones life has come to. I ca
n only say that I have found out ten times more about myself and the Human Condi
tion in the last two years than in all of my 17 Sannyas years. So I can say out
of my own experience that there is much more to discover than meditation, therap
y or Vipassana-like watching can ever facilitate. But the search is 180 degrees
in the opposite direction, away from the spirit-ual, into the actual, factual, s
ensual and sensible.
So, here is the address of the Actual Freedom mailing list: http://www.topica.co
m/lists/actualfreedom/read
You are very welcome to draw on my expertise.

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===
=====
c-corr19.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 19

Topics covered
Love, mask, peace, religious persecutions and fights * living together in peace
and harmony, sex

13.11.1998
VINEETO: Hi,
Well, I would say, from my experience and from common sense, that love is not go
ing to be liberating. It only makes one more dependant of others and confused ..

.
RESPONDENT: Obviously, you never have felt any love from anyone. Otherwise how c
an you state such a nonsense.
VINEETO: I actually got off my bum and cleaned myself up from everything that I
did not like about myself: anger, jealousy, need, greed, fear, malice, bitching
and depression, ...
RESPONDENT: Wow! And who is this who doesnt like these things? Is that you now? Y
our Mask = Perfect Person?
No. 18 said: Please listen carefully to what Im not saying ...you didnt.
I find her poem just wonderful, and I want to thank her for it.

PETER: I had a conversation with someone yesterday, who said that how I talked a
nd wrote was offensive...
RESPONDENT to Peter: Of course it is you are continuously spitting around in sub
tle ways.
PETER: I have no religious tolerance whatsoever, so all call me evil, ...
RESPONDENT to Peter: except you. You BELIEVE you are HARMLESS, hahaha
PETER: ...but given that I was a Sannyasin,
RESPONDENT to Peter: at least you BELIEVE you were, isnt it?
PETER: ...particularly the followers of Mr. Chandra Mohan call me evil.
RESPONDENT to Peter: Right, they will, cause you want to destroy their leader. The
LOVERS of Osho, however, will call you simply an asshole. I do. (An asshole is o
ne who spits at love, in case you dont know).
In fact, to call an asshole an asshole is such a joy, thanks for the opportunity
, guy. And dont forget to do what you said on top of your first reply: get lost s
ometime soon the endless repetition of your happy and harmless number is getting
too boring man.
VINEETO: As far as I know, your Indian name means peace. Does it mean you are look
ing for peace in you, with others and for the world at large? That had been my m
ain reason why I took Sannyas.
But to be a LOVER of Osho for you means obviously calling everybody who isnt an a
sshole. The consequence of love is obviously that you have to hate everybody who
does not love who you love.
Isnt that what the Jews do to the Muslims in the Middle East, what the Catholics
do with the Protestants in Ireland and the Hindus do with the Muslims and Sikhs
in India. Tell me, where is the difference? Arent you simply defending your love
of Osho, your belief in him as the Master, against another belief? You attack th
e wrong-believer like all get-out and have great glee doing it. So your love is ju
st another opportunity to wage war, something human beings have developed into a
great art or entertainment over the centuries.
Just calling someone an asshole is not enough of a fact to refute anything he sa

ys, you have to give more evidence to your opinion. Otherwise I cannot see any d
ifference to all the other religious warriors who are simply sending missiles wh
en they disagree with their neighbours countrys religion.
When I met Peter and he said he wanted to live with a woman in peace and harmony
, I took the opportunity. I had to question and eliminate a lot of my dearly hel
d beliefs in the course of the search for such daily and permanent peace, but I
considered those beliefs as part of the ego that I had set out to leave behind w
hen I started on the spiritual path.
My primary aim was peace. And being practical I realised that the challenge was
to live in peace with one person. That was and is my contribution to peace in th
e world. If I could not live with one other person in peace and harmony, how cou
ld I realistically expect to be peace on the planet? Whatever was in the road be
tween us I would investigate according to what was factual and what was a belief
. Based on facts, we could always find a sensible agreement in whatever situatio
n, something that has never been possible on the basis of believing something to
be right or wrong, good or bad. Sticking stubbornly and passionately to my beli
efs had only resulted in endless fights about opinions in my previous relationsh
ips.
This is how I came to question one belief after the other, and one of them was t
he belief in authority. Without the belief in authority I can confidently stand
on my own two feet and can examine whatever somebody says according to the conte
nt and not to who says it a man, a woman, a guru, a newcomer, a heathen. That conf
idence gives me peace with everyone, I dont need to attack or defend authority, a
nd I can simply examine facts.
You replied to what I wrote to No. 18:
[Vineeto]: I actually got off my bum and cleaned myself up from everything that
I did not like about myself: anger, jealousy, need, greed, fear, malice, bitchin
g and depression...
[Respondent]: Wow! And who is this who doesnt like these things? Is that you now?
Mask = Perfect Person? [endquote].
I think you dont consider it a possibility that somebody can actually get rid of
anger, greed, jealousy etc. You can only interpret it as another mask. I think i
t is a bit short-sighted, thats all. I am simply saying that it is possible becau
se I did it, and why not give it a try? My life now is well worth living and so
much more fun than with all the problems that the Human Condition in me, like an
ger, fear, greed, sorrow etc. used to produce.

You seem to get rather annoyed when we use the words happy and harmless. I could als
o call it not miserable and not vindictive. But you can always press delete in case y
u enjoy your life as it is and yourself as you are.

27.11.1998
VINEETO: As far as I know, your Indian name means peace. Does it mean you are look
ing for peace in you, with others and for the world at large?
RESPONDENT: Im not the pope, dear.
VINEETO: Maybe thats why the world is in such a bad state with 160,000,000 people
killed in wars in this century alone. People think it is the job of the pope or
somebody enlightened or God to take care of peace, and then they can go on bein

g their grotty and violent self they want to be. I was simply tired of waiting f
or god or any other authority to solve the problem, it has not happened in centu
ries. So I became a non-contributor to the violence and misery around. You can c
all that pope if you like, it is definitely not Pollack.
*
VINEETO: When I met Peter and he said he wanted to live with a woman in peace an
d harmony, I took the opportunity.
RESPONDENT: So why he (and you) doesnt DO it? Butting in, butting out, butting ba
ck and all that jazz... Maybe another type of butting in & out would be more fun
. For the list & you too...
VINEETO: I dont see how sex could be fun for the list. But if you dont like the co
nversation, nobody forces you to write. You obviously have good reasons to keep
going. It is a strange human habit to try and change the other according to ones
wishes which in itself is an impossibility when it makes so much more sense to f
ind the solution in adjusting ones own attitude or behaviour.
*
VINEETO: When I met Peter and he said he wanted to live with a woman in peace an
d harmony, I took the opportunity. I had to question and eliminate a lot of my d
early held beliefs in the course of the search for such daily and permanent peac
e, but I considered those beliefs as part of the ego that I had set out to leave
behind when I started on the spiritual path.
RESPONDENT: The I setting out to leave the I behind, hahaha. Great Idea! But its
a good warning thanks!
VINEETO: This is one of the insidious beliefs of spirituality and of Sannyas, th
at you cant change yourself. People believe that simply loving the Master of obey
ing God will do the trick. Thats why everybody who believes it keeps going round
in circles. We are not only born with instincts and then filled up with the usua
l social conditioning but we also have a brain equipped with intelligence and aw
areness. Both intelligence and awareness are very good tools to change ones behav
iour, to get rid of emotions and beliefs that dont work in life. Just to call it I
and then pretend that you are helpless to do something about it is an easy cop-o
ut and a cheap excuse. It smacks of fatalism. Maybe it is threatening when I sta
te that it is possible to change myself because it reveals this great belief for
what it is an excuse to stay malicious and miserable.
But if you want this conversation to end, just dont reply.

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust:1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===

=====
c-corr04.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 4

Topics covered
Flavours of Papaji and Gangaji, freedom from feelings and instincts, questioning
enlightenment, superiority, perfection * facts, heart, experiencing physical wo
rld without Human Condition, repression / elimination, mind, beliefs, Truth, phy
sical senses, PCE, missionary, peak experience, belief of perfection / actual pe
rfection * objections, non-spiritual, thought, beaten path * Fact of death, clea
r-eyed view * facts / beliefs * scrutiny , dictionary definitions not applicable
to psychic world experiences, personality, identity * why disciple of Rajneesh,
bargain, love, intimacy * facts , divine love * to see the facts for what they
are I had to examine and eliminate my emotions first * Love Agape * brainwashed
, instincts, awareness* watcher as the cheap solution, self, Richards apt words * f
antasy world, proof, delusion of the world of the watcher * Merry Christmas * mi
ndless affair

28.11.1998
VINEETO: Hi,
PETER: Fair enough, I was just offering an alternative non-spiritual and down-to
-earth solution to the Human Dilemma. So you are not interested, so why even bot
her to criticize if you havent even bothered to read my book. Guess you dont even
like the idea of what you think it is about. Peter, List C, No 4, 26.11.1998
RESPONDENT: I dont feel inclined to read your book. I read parts of yours, Vineet
os and Richards sites. When I replied to you, it is from having read your mails. I
dont feel very eager to discuss with you, we have our different viewpoints and e
xperiences and that is ok. The reason I answered was because you seem to have ta
ken a position from where you look down on others, and that I find it strange th
at you can do that from your illuminated state of delight. Expansion beyond enli
ghtenment should be able to offer a broader view to life than what you can. Also
I find some of your words to be agreeable upon, but I dont sense your heart thro
ugh the words. Read Papaji or Gangaji here on the net, the flavour of their word
s is something totally different.
VINEETO: Yes, you observed it right the flavours of Papaji (W.L. Poonja) and Gan
gaji Antoinette Varner) are very different, they have got the heart in it.
The whole issue of actual freedom is the freedom from emotions, feelings and the
instinctual passions. Heart-felt passions have been the source of both religious
and tribal wars, of domestic violence, and of the misery and gulf between men an
d women. Any questioning of the love and devotion that the followers have for th

e enlightened ones and the religious leaders has led to emotional responses whic
h you can now see happening on the sannyas mailing list.
Richard was indeed the first one to question the state of enlightenment because
it did not match the way he experienced the world in the peak experience. In ard
uous years of investigation he discovered the massive delusion that enlightenmen
t is and, by eliminating not only the ego but also the soul, all the heart-felt
emotions, he managed to get himself out of this delusion. What was left after th
e complete elimination of ego, soul, identity and being was simply the physical
human flesh-and-blood body, perfectly functioning in this magical fairy-tale lik
e world. Without the Human Condition, without the overlaying fear, aggression, n
urture and desire this world is experienced as-it-is, benevolent, friendly, easy
and magically delightful.
As for your notion of us looking down on others that is a curious matter. Of cou
rse, the actual world is superior to any state of enlightened delusion in that i
t is not merely a creation of human imagination but factual, obvious and perfect
, as evidenced by the physical senses. If you have experienced it once in a peak
experience or remembered one you had, you would easily agree with me. Many peop
le seem to have peak-experiences, if only for a short period of time. In my writ
ing I am simply sharing the joy of having been able to clean myself up with Rich
ards method and becoming virtually free. It is possible for everybody because I a
m nobody special. Everybody with enough intent and courage can indeed become hap
py and harmless.
I find it strange that most people seem to get stuck with their opinion, objecti
ng to this freedom because of their personal feelings instead of investigating t
he contents and facts of what we are talking about. When Galileo first discovere
d the fact that the earth went around the sun, many people have objected, becaus
e this was contrary to the ancient beliefs. It took centuries until it became ac
cepted as a fact. The same will be the case with actual freedom. For most people
it is too radical a thought that emotions and even instincts might not be neces
sary for survival, but that they are, to the contrary, the very cause for all th
e misery happening on the planet.
I am simply telling my story in case someone becomes intrigued by the possibilit
y of a third alternative to normal and spiritual. I understand that many will want t
o stay in their particular belief system I myself had rocky days to work myself
out of the social and religious conditioning, before I could tackle the animal i
nstincts every human is born with.
In case you want to discuss any further, I invite you to join our mailing list.
Otherwise I just leave you with a definition of perfection (people might call it
superiority...)
Perfection The condition, state, or quality of being perfect or free from all de
fect; flawlessness, faultlessness. An embodiment of this; a perfect person or th
ing. Oxford Dictionary
Peter: Perfection is readily apparent in the physical universe when one perceive
s a star-filled night sky, the delicacy of a passion flower, the smell of approa
ching rain on the wind, the taste of a strawberry, the touch of skin, the ever c
hanging weather, the delight of human settlements, and the amazing things fashio
ned from the earths minerals. And it is perfect in that it is infinite and eterna
l , there is no outside to it, there is nothing to compare it to, it is incompar
able there is nothing finer or more pure. The imaginary ethereal worlds pale into
insignificance in comparison to a stellar nebula millions of light-years across
or a dew-drop in the early light of dawn. Human beings, with their in-built pro
gram of malice and sorrow , are painfully aware of their own shortcomings in the

face of this perfection. Thus humans live in a state of constant turmoil and gu
ilt about their collective and individual lot to be forever attempting to cope w
ith and control the feelings of being malicious and sorrowful in the face of thi
s obvious perfection.
But there is a solution. The diligent and intentional pursuit of the perfection
evidenced in a PCE, while assiduously avoiding the pitfalls of Glory or Dread, w
ill inevitably result in an actual freedom from the Human Condition perfection i
n humans is possible. Not the deluded perfection of feeling Divine or the cerebr
al version of perfection as in never make a mistake, but the down-to-earth everyda
y perfection of being a mortal flesh and blood human, innocent of malice and sor
row. The very same perfection readily experienced in a Pure Consciousness Experi
ence . If you can experience it for a moment, or a minute, or an hour then it is
, of course, possible to experience the perfection of the world-as-it-is with pe
ople as-they-are as a constant on-going experience. And it is freely available f
or those who want it. It requires no special qualities, no super intelligence ,
no being chosen, no being coerced or cajoled the only requirement is you have to w
ant to do it, like you have never wanted anything else before. The Actual Freedo
m Trust Library

29.11.1998
RESPONDENT: You give a definition of perfection and as a librarian I like to kno
w the source of any statement.
VINEETO: The first (italics) part is from the Oxford dictionary. The second part
is written by Peter to explain how perfection is used in his journal.
RESPONDENT: When I said that Papaji and Gangaji have got a heart, which can be f
elt a transmission, it has nothing to do with human feelings as you describe in
your mail. It is the heart of their being which is perceived, the sweetness comi
ng from the divine. I dont sense this in yours or Peters or Richards words. On the
contrary, I find your words to be very firm and closed to the fact you want to d
eliver, your words are not flexible or poetic, they stem from the very logical w
orld of materialism and dont offer any juice to the spirit.
VINEETO: Yes, this is exactly the difference. The enlightened ones talk about an
d experience the heart of their being, juice to the spirit, poetry, sweetness an
d flexibility , all of which are qualities of the affective nature of their expe
rience. You rightly dont sense this kind of transmission in Peters or Richards word
s, because it is not part of actual freedom. Actual freedom is to experience the
physical world only. To experience this physical world without the Human Condit
ion, without fear, aggression, nurture and desire, without the overlaying self, wi
thout the delusion of soul, is pure delight. If you would take the trouble to read
a bit deeper into the matter you would understand that Richard is indeed the ve
ry first person who discovered the perfection of the actuality that is usually o
bscured by any kind of emotion, instincts and imagination, be it normal human feel
ings or divine feelings.
I notice that you first assume that actual freedom falls into the same category
as Papajis or Gangajis enlightenment, and then you criticise that our words dont de
scribe the state of enlightenment. Of course not. Actual freedom is something co
mpletely different altogether, in fact 180 degrees in the opposite direction of
enlightenment. It is impossible to imagine the actual world a world without conc
epts and thats why it is so important to remember ones peak-experience. But then,
we are not talking about the same experience. I will explain further down.
Richard described it best in his introduction to his journal:

Richard: For many years I sought genuine exploration and discovery of what it me
ans to live a fully human life, and in October 1992 I discovered, once and for a
ll, what I was looking for. Since then I have been consistently living an incomp
arable condition which I choose to call actual freedom and I use the word actual b
ecause this freedom is located here in this very world, this actual world of the
senses. It is not an affective, cerebral or psychic state of being; it is a phy
sical condition that ensues when one goes beyond Spiritual Enlightenment. In Sep
tember 1981 I underwent a monumental transformation into an Altered State Of Con
sciousness which can only be described as Spiritual Enlightenment. I became Enli
ghtened as the result of an earnest and intense process which commenced in the J
anuary of that year. At approximately six oclock on the morning of Sunday 6th Sep
tember 1981, my ego disappeared entirely in an edifying moment of awakening to an A
bsolute Reality. I lived in the Enlightened State for eleven years, so I have an
intimate understanding of the marked difference between Spiritual Enlightenment
and actual freedom. Richards Journal, Introduction
RESPONDENT: What you sense as emotional responses on the list are just plain hum
an responses, emotions are alive in the human realm and can cause both pleasure
and pain. One does never get rid of these unless one suppresses the human nature
and seduces oneself into enlightenhood....
VINEETO: I am not talking about suppressing the Human Nature or the Human Condit
ion, and I am not talking about seduction into enlightenment. Richard discovered t
hat it is possible to completely eliminate the Human Condition, instincts, emoti
ons, the whole lot. Enlightenment happens when you get rid of the ego and become
divine feeling the Self one with God, while actual freedom is the state when ev
ery bit of identity, ego, soul, being, Self, That, Truth, Divine Love, Universe
and God have altogether disappeared. What remains is just the body with its sens
es and its wonderfully functioning intelligence.
RESPONDENT: ...by merely living in the dry land of mind
VINEETO: Mind is a word very much used in the spiritual understanding as something
to get out of. In its dictionary definition it means:
mind that which thinks, feels and wills, exercises perception, judgment, reflect
ion, etc, as in a human or other conscious being; the psyche, the totality of co
nscious and unconscious activities of the organism; the intellect or understandi
ng, as distinguished from the faculties of feeling and willing; the intelligence
. Oxford Dictionary
Mind as that which feels and wills, as the psyche is indeed something that needs to
be extinguished to become actually free. Mind as the intellect or understanding,
as distinguished from the faculties of feeling and willing; the intelligence , ho
wever, is highly recommendable when one wants to live a sensible, pleasurable, c
onsiderate, beneficent and comfortable life. The East, as in India, Pakistan, Ba
ngladesh, Tibet, Nepal, Bhurma shows clearly what happens if intelligence gets t
hrown out of the window poverty, repression of women, overpopulation, corruption
, illiteracy and ignorance are only a few obvious facts. After giving up my spir
itual practice I had to re-start my brain and exercise my rusty intelligence in
order to distinguish between silly and sensible, between facts and mere beliefs.
Intelligence and awareness combined are the tools that one can re-wire the brai
n from its conditioning, beliefs and instincts. To use pure intelligence and to
be aware of its happening unobstructed by social and religious conditioning or i
nstinctual fear is a magnificent and exquisite function of the human brain.
RESPONDENT: There are two ways, as I see it, to become free from our nature. One
: suppressing which is illusive freedom, and two: stay a witness to ones nature,
dont identify but enjoy. The third, which you may think I have missed, is not som

ething one can do, it is a happening, which happens in spite of our personalitie
s.
VINEETO: Yes, you do describe the two known ways of dealing with the Human Condi
tion. Richards discovery is the third alternative, a method to actively become fr
ee. Your description of the third is simply an extension of the second, the spirit
ual transcendence.
*
VINEETO: Any questioning of the love and devotion that the followers have for th
e enlightened ones and the religious leaders has led to emotional responses whic
h you can now see happening on the sannyas mailing list.
RESPONDENT: I think you take quick conclusions. Maybe it is your words leading t
o these emotional responses????
VINEETO: Of course, my words evoke those emotional responses. I am questioning d
early held beliefs, I am shaking the very foundation of spirituality. But once I
have rid myself of emotions, no words from others can evoke them in me. Everybo
dy has the potential of emotional responses, it is part of our birthmark. Unless
one sets out to rid oneself of the very source of those emotions, one by one, a
nybody can spark off an emotional reaction, anger, envy, fear, etc.
*
VINEETO: Richard was indeed the first one ...
RESPONDENT: Indeed?? Could it be others have talked about enlightenment in many di
fferent ways, which you have missed out on? What is this need to point out some
superiority here?
VINEETO: As I have said, Richard does not talk about enlightenment. He talks abo
ut something far superior to enlightenment.
*
VINEETO: ...to question the state of enlightenment because it did not match the
way he experienced the world in the peak experience. In arduous years of investi
gation he discovered the massive delusion that enlightenment is and, by eliminat
ing not only the ego but also the soul, all the heart-felt emotions, he managed
to get himself out of this delusion.
RESPONDENT: Well, this is all very good for Richard, but why WHY from where come
s the need to say that what it is like for me, so must it be for the others and
when they dont agree with me, they are emotional and wrong?
VINEETO: Richard talks about facts. The fact is that everybody by birth and cond
itioning is inflicted with the Human Condition. Those facts are the same for eve
rybody. That is the superiority of facts. A tree is a tree, fullstop. Not some m
ysterious product of Mother Nature, filled with divine energy, of some creation
of Gods grace. When someone does not agree with a fact, he/she usually has emotio
nal reasons and is wrong in that he/she denies facts or lives in imagination. Th
e Macquarie dictionary states:
fact what has really happened or is the case; truth; reality: in fact rather tha
n theory, the fact of the matter is; something known to have happened; a truth k
nown by actual experience or observation: scientists work with facts. Oxford Dic
tionary

Enlightenment, on the contrary is an affective state, an experience of the psych

e, which is another word for imagination. Therefore everybody experiences it dif
ferent, there exists my Truth and your Truth and a million ways to reach this elusiv
e Truth.
*
VINEETO: What was left after the complete elimination of ego, soul, identity and
being was simply the physical human flesh-and-blood body, perfectly functioning
in this magical fairy-tale like world.
RESPONDENT: This was not what I experienced after my peak experience. So then, w
ho is right and who is wrong???? This is really my whole point, there are many w
ays to freedom and I find it strange that you and Peter, marketing your freedom
with many words, are not more inclusive, more broad-minded, more acceptable and
more understanding. It is obvious you are clinging to the truth you have found,
and by clinging you are not free.
VINEETO: As I pointed out before, you are talking about a different experience w
hen you use the word peak experience. Peak experience refers to a pure consciousne
ss experience without any affective qualities whatsoever, without the conditione
d notion of divine-ness or love. see definition below...
*
VINEETO: Without the Human Condition, without the overlaying fear, aggression, n
urture and desire this world is experienced as-it-is, benevolent, friendly, easy
and magically delightful.
RESPONDENT: Absolutely. And I understand the need to share this with others. Jus
t the responses you get, both positive and negative, can tell you something if y
ou are willing to stay open in an communication, without any defences, which it
seems to me you put up in front of the truth you have found. You want to share i
t, with NO objections what so ever. You put the truth upon people by telling the
m they are wrong, who is interested in listening to your truth when you come fro
m that perspective? We are all, ALL, on the search and we are all, ALL, wrong fr
om time to time. But when we are right, we are right according to ourselves only
, no one can confirm that for us. Be more tolerate, more compassionate (which ha
s nothing to do with emotions), more understanding. I know you would have been,
if you came from the Source. I dont think you do.
VINEETO: I have not found the truth, which is indeed different for everyone. I tal
k about facts, about experiencing the world without notions of right and wrong, true
and false. You can be maybe right according to your affective experience, but the
physical senses without emotions and feelings give a clear experience of the wo
rld-as-it-is. You cannot call a coffee-cup a chewing gum. This is where actual f
reedom differs from spiritual truth in that it is definable, describable, factua
l, physical, obvious and perfect, as evidenced by the physical senses.
RESPONDENT: But the physical senses differ from human to human, so everybody hav
e their own facts, their own obvious perfection., so it occurs to me you are del
uding yourself here.
VINEETO: Exactly, our physical senses are not fit to respond to the divine, and
there is no need to. The divine is a product of our imagination, like everything e
lse that cannot be evidenced by the physical senses. God is a mere fiction of th
e human psyche, the ignorant human invention based upon the dualistic need to ex
plain anything and everything in terms of cause and effect. And what human energ
y is powerful enough to give birth to this imaginary god? Passionate human energ
y, of course, all in a desperate search for immortality, a denial of physical de

ath.
*
VINEETO: If you have experienced it once in a peak experience or remembered one
you had, you would easily agree with me.
RESPONDENT: No, I cannot because my peak experience was beyond my physical sense
s.
VINEETO: This sentence proves that we are talking about different peak experienc
es (pure consciousness experiences). There is nothing beyond physical senses whe
n I talk about a PCE. Here is how Richard describes it:

Richard: A PCE is when ones sense of identity temporarily vacates the throne and
apperception occurs. Apperception is the minds perception of itself ... it is a p
ure awareness. Normally the mind perceives through the senses and sorts the data
received according to its predilection; but the mind itself remains unperceived
... it is taken to be unknowable. Apperception is when the thinker and the feeler i
s not and an unmediated awareness occurs. The pure consciousness experience is a
s if one has eyes in the back of ones head; there is a three hundred and sixty de
gree awareness and all is self-evidently clear. This is knowing by direct experi
ence, unmoderated by any self whatsoever. One is able to see that I and me have been
tanding in the way of the perfection and purity that is the essential character
of this moment of being here becoming apparent. Here a solid and irrefutable nat
ive intelligence can operate freely because the thinker and the feeler is in abeyanc
e. One is the universes experience of itself as a human being ... after all, the
very stuff this body is made of is the very stuff of the universe. There is no ou
tside to the perfection of the universe to come from; one only thought and felt t
hat one was a separate identity. Apperception is something that brings the facti
city born out of a direct experience of the actual. Then what one is (what not who)
is these sense organs in operation: this seeing is me, this hearing is me, this
tasting is me, this touching is me, this smelling is me, and this thinking is me
. Whereas I, the identity, am inside the body: looking out through my eyes as if loo
king out through a window, listening through my ears as if they were microphones,
tasting through my tongue, touching through my skin, smelling through my nose, and th
nking through my brain. Of course I must feel isolated, alienated, alone and lonely,
for I am cut off from the magnificence of the actual world the world as-it-is by m
y very presence. Richard, List B, No 26, 13.11.1998
In my writing I am simply sharing the joy of having been able to clean myself up
with Richards method and becoming virtually free. It is possible for everybody b
ecause I am nobody special.
RESPONDENT: There is a little missionary hiding in you. See her??? :-)
VINEETO: Dont hope for that! Once understood, everybody has to do it for themselv
es. I have better things to do with my time than playing the saviour for lost sou
ls. Actual freedom is something everybody has to earn for themselves by cleaning
themselves up, nobody can clean you up but you.
RESPONDENT: You can share and see that people are suffering because you have lef
t that plane, but you can only shine your truth. This is the case with the peopl
e today, that those who could make use of your alternative, are holding on tight
to their individual right to think and believe for themselves. They dont like to
be told. People has to come down from their ivory towers by themselves and you
have to have patience, shine on and wait from them to ask you for help. And this
is how it should be, people should not be told, but be allowed to search and se
arch until they find some master that fits.

VINEETO: I am only telling my story. It is completely up to each individual if t

hey are intrigued, curious, thrilled or disgusted. Nothing to do with me. I have
neither the need nor the responsibility to save anyone. Otherwise I would not b
e free. But I wont just hide under the blanket because someone might feel offende
d and a lot of people have been and will be. It is very understandable. I have b
een upset and offended myself, until I saw in a peak-experience that there is a
world beyond beliefs. Here is my description of this mind-blowing experience:
[Vineeto]: Finally, a minor car-accident shocked my spinning mind to a halt. It
was followed by a peak-experience on the same evening that shed some light on my
dilemma. Having smoked some marijuana I wandered off into the vast spaces of my
imagination, exploring the psychic world, as I tried to make sense of the diametr
ically opposed options that had presented themselves in my life.
I seemed to perceive my questions in a wider context and had intense sensations
about pains and processes in different parts of my body. Watching the people aro
und me I had a deeper understanding of their behaviour and how they related to e
ach other. I could even see the energy-lines between the people relating to each o
ther. Each presented a protective shield of a particular personal image, and thi
s image would act and operate, relating to the others while the actual, fearful an
d aggressive person remained hidden.
At the same time that I was watching this I was distinctly aware of my thinking
and my journeying in this magical inner world. At one stage I even experienced wha
t it is to be mad. I understood the temptation of staying forever in an easy, il
lusory world of psychedelic wonders, where the mad person is the magician in his
own world enjoying the power and safety of his dream. But anybody who dares to
question this dream has to be considered a deadly enemy. However, I was always a
ware that I had the choice to stay in this imaginary world or not.
When I tried to tell Peter about my experiences and insights his simple response
gave me quite a shock. But all this is just inside your mind, it is simply your
own interpretation, it may appear to be real, but it is not actual. Yes, that was
true. I could easily see that I was inside the mind, roaming about in the differe
nt chambers of my assembled beliefs-systems, trying to find the one that was righ
t and true while in fact, I was just having a little grander and unusually complex
perception of this huge labyrinth of thoughts and feelings! I could see more of
my ideas or concepts and other peoples ideas, but they were simply ideas. None of
them had any relevance to the actuality of the physical world!

In seeing the fact, everything stood still and the whole construct of beliefs su
ddenly disappeared. Then, for the first time in all my years of the spiritual se
arch, I experienced several hours outside of the psychic world. Being outside, I c
ould see that this world is a huge, all-encompassing construct, created and held i
n place by the dreams, beliefs, bonds, power-battles, emotions and different spi
ritual ideas of all of humanity. Everyone is part of it, weaving and reproducing
bits of this psychic carpet. The more people believe in one particular version th
e more that version becomes real or true. Intuitive or psychic people are simply a li
tle better acquainted with the rules and occurrences of this other-world. It is ne
ver actual though, because it relies on constant re-creation through imagination
and belief. The moment people cease to believe in a particular religion, idea o
r value, that very concept eventually disappears from the earth. Actual, on the
contrary, is what is already here without anybody applying a feeling, an interpr
etation, a belief or any other psychic effort. It is simply here, visual, tangible
, audible and tastable.
That night I had stuck my head beyond the blanket of beliefs including good and
bad, right and wrong, love and evil. In the first moments, with the psychic world
disappearing, this new place was stark, black, scary, a big hole and a bottomles
s abyss. Suddenly the ground under my feet wavered as the very existence of beli

efs ceased. For a while I was lost, frightened and bewildered.

After a minute or two that appeared to contain an eternity of complex understand
ing, Peter said to me, Hello, how are you? Good that you are here! Here obviously me
ant that there existed a place outside the belief-systems! I turned round, out o
f my shock and bewilderment, into the actual world, and saw that I was simply si
tting on the couch with Peter. Here was someone sitting next to me, another huma
n being, not particularly a man, lover or boyfriend. Just a human being, smiling
and pleased to meet me, eager to explore with me the next event in life. He is
interested. And I am interested. Who is this person? What will happen next? What
will he say next? What will we do next? It is exciting, alive, right here and a
great pleasure!
The pure and immediate adventure of experiencing this moment of being alive was
so utterly superior to everything I had come across in the name of meditation, b
liss or satori that it spoke for itself. Being in the actual world, everything is
simply obvious, needs no explanation or theory, and contains no emotional memori
es of any past struggle or fear. There is nothing that blurs or edits the experi
ence of the world around me, which is both wondrous and delightful. Freedom is l
iving each moment as it happens, without any objection. It is not the end-produc
t of years of building up a structured belief-system; it is the opposite destruc
tion of everything that lies between me and the experience of the actual world.
Freedom is simply what is left after I rid myself of every layer of the emotiona
l and instinctual self, which is the only obstruction to my direct experience of t
he universe.
The next morning, when the effects of the drug had long faded, the understanding
of the night before was still vividly present. I clearly remember walking aroun
d a crowded out-door market, looking at all the different stalls with people off
ering their products together with their particular belief-systems, as they trie
d to convince the customers of the reality of their particular version of truth.
There were all kinds of proposals to find truth or meaning, whether religious, spi
ritual or secular. Feral feathers and karmic wheels, goddesses and herbs, ways o
f natural living and an impressive array of spiritual bookstalls, offering a hun
dred different solutions to life. Colourful Turks were selling their local hot c
offee and delicious cakes; a black boy was playing romantic songs on his guitar,
selling them by the hour. He was successful people bought his dreams, his love
songs! A woman in purple dyed feral clothes was selling self-made dream-catchers
, talismans and other symbols of her particular conviction.
There were traders of organic vegetables, Indian farmers and food-vans with a wi
de variety of exotic meals all served with the conviction of their producer: hea
lthy or hearty, plain or spicy, Italian, Thai or Indian, home-made or magically
healing. Hippies from the hills sold their produce along with their dreamy, chao
tic life-style; drumming ferals with uncombed tasseled hair presented their life
as the most juicy and happy of all. Ecologists proclaimed that only purely nati
ve rainforest trees should be planted to save the environment. Everyone was utte
rly convinced of what they were offering, complete with their corresponding outf
it, make-up, special language and music. I was quite taken aback by the enormity o
f what I saw. Being outside of all those beliefs made me see what they consisted
of merely ideas, thoughts, constructs, dreams and hopes; nothing was factual ab
out any of them.
This peak-experience proved to be the most significant turning point in the last
turbulent year. It began to dawn on me that perhaps I also had just another bel
ief-system my particular search for enlightenment with this special master and gro
up of people. I could no longer completely deny that possibility. However, it to
ok another two months until I gathered the courage to actually investigate my de
arly held conviction. I had already one foot in the actual world while the other

foot was still stubbornly trying to march in the direction of the spiritual sea
rch. Up to now I had not found a reliable compass to decide the course, but now
the very idea of believing anybody else became questionable. I decided that I wa
nted more of this actual freedom. Now, for a change, I would start relying on fa
cts and actual experiences instead of someone elses vision or dream. A Bit of Vin
eeto
I just leave you with a definition of perfection (people might call it superiori
ty...)
perfection The condition, state, or quality of being perfect or free from all de
fect; flawlessness, faultlessness.
RESPONDENT: Whose definition is this?
VINEETO: The Oxford dictionary.
RESPONDENT: Mine is that even a fault can be perfect, a perfect fault. There is
nothing unperfect, only our mind judging. And as such, the judging mind is also
perfect.

VINEETO: Your interpretation of perfect is derived from the spiritual interpreta

tion that the world is illusory and has to be transcended. Of course, Eastern re
ligion preaches that you have to transcend body and mind and disappear completel
y into the grand state of imagination and delusion. In its affective experience
this is seen as very real, seductive and engulfing, but nevertheless a product o
f the universal imaginative psyche, not based on facts. As I said before, intellig
ence is a very good tool to judge silly and sensible. You, however, seem to use
the word judging as in rejecting, not as in discriminating. Rejecting is ineffective,
useless and silly, discriminating a necessary quality to make down-to-earth deci
sions about ones life.
*
VINEETO: ...perfection in humans is possible.
RESPONDENT: Whatever is, is perfect. It cannot be any other way. But there can b
e more.
VINEETO: One of those insidious spiritual beliefs. If you look around in the wor
ld, human beings are anything else but perfect. Murders, rapes, domestic violenc
e, religious and tribal wars, child abuse and suicides tell enough of a story. T
his belief that everything is perfect is one of the reasons why people think the
y dont have to change, just wait for the grace of god or the master, or the unive
rse to miraculously remove them from this miserable realm of the body. But then
you have to deny the body, all its pleasures, its intelligence, its physical sen
ses. Then, the only place you can have peace is in some imaginary world of the p
syche.
Actual freedom means living in this physical world, as this physical body with i
ts marvellous intelligence. But it also means living without a psyche, without a
ffective qualities human or divine, without instincts, without imagination, with
out any sense of self or Self, ego, soul and idea of who you are. Actual freedom
is to discover what you are a flesh-and-blood body, one of 5.8 billion on the p
lanet completely ordinary with only one difference: one is completely harmless a
nd as such a non-contributor to malice, and one is completely happy and a such a
non-contributor to sorrow.
I have answered all your objections as clearly as possible. One thing strikes me
as curious: You seem interested enough to engage in a detailed and inquiring co

nversation with Peter and me. Yet you have enough objections to not investigate
any further into what actual freedom is all about.
There is another option, though. You could put your objections which are more th
an understandable aside in order to investigate scientifically, rather than emot
ionally. With a more informed understanding your questions will be more to the p
oint and have more the quality of questions instead of objections.
Since I am not a missionary, I prefer the second option.

4.12.1998
RESPONDENT: I end my discussion with you with this:
[Vineeto]: I have answered all your objections as clearly as possible. One thing
strikes me as curious: You seem interested enough to engage in a detailed and i
nquiring conversation with Peter and me. Yet you have enough objections to not i
nvestigate any further into what actual freedom is all about. [endquote].
Arent you beyond curiosity?? I am not interested in discussing, I have already to
ld Peter that. And since you two seems to be one, I have mailed either one of yo
u, not bothering whose name was on top. My only issue all along has been and you
havent answered that: why do you criticise what doesnt work for you but which mig
ht work for others? why put Osho and his Sannyasins down? what makes you think y
ou and you only, has the truth?
VINEETO: Curious that you are ending the discussion when you run out of objectio
ns. For me, that would be the point when to really start the discussion.
What you may perceive as a criticism, for me is simply a presenting another opti
on. That this option is so radically different to everything else I have come ac
ross in life seems to be the thing thats bothering you if Osho works for you, if
you have no doubts about it, than thats fine.
I dont have the truth, because truth is different for everyone. I had similar obj
ections in the beginning, having been a devout Sannyasin, and therefore I unders
tand the various objections. But after thorough investigation and experiencing b
oth the realm of enlightenment and the actual world I am now able to confidently
state that they are opposite states to live in truth and enlightenment are facu
lties of feeling and imagination, while actual freedom is an experience of the p
hysical senses and apperception.
It is not a matter of criticising Osho or Sannyas, actual freedom is a different
, non-spiritual approach to life altogether. I am saying everybody got it 180 de
grees wrong. I understand that this statement is offensive to almost everybody w
ho wants to admit that they barked up the wrong tree? You could compare Richards
discovery to what Galileo discovered a few centuries ago. With his self-built te
lescope Galileo proved the theory of Copernicus, that the earth is actually revo
lving around the sun and not vice versa as everybody believed then. He was perse
cuted, mainly by the Church, and it took a few centuries until his discovery bec
ame general accepted knowledge.
So, our discovery is similarly radical, new and a quantum leap in evolution, and
as such will appeal to those with a pioneer-spirited.
*
VINEETO: There is another option, though. You could put your objections which ar

e more than understandable aside in order to investigate scientifically, rather

than emotionally. With a more informed understanding your questions will be more
to the point and have more the quality of questions instead of objections.
RESPONDENT: You say here that you dont hear me. Ok, but why cant you say so, inste
ad of TELLING me what to do? Cant I think for myself??
VINEETO: The trouble with thinking is that is goes round in circles, because hum
ans have learned certain truths that they take as facts. To question something tha
t everybody believes to be the case for instance that there is something like tr
uth, or a life after death, or that Human Nature cannot be changed is not someth
ing that would occur in normal thinking. At least, it did not occur in my thinki
ng, trained by society and spiritual wisdom, and it did not occur in anybody els
e I have talked to. As long as thinking is edited and distorted by instincts, em
otions and beliefs, our innate intelligence does not have much chance to operate
.
Also, I am not telling you what to do, I am suggesting another option. From my o
wn experience at the start I know quite well how the Human Condition reacts in m
ost of us. But since you said you were only curious, not vitally interested in f
inding an alternative to Ancient Wisdom, I will stop wasting your time now.

10.12.1998
RESPONDENT No. 10: Hello everyone, I just wondering if there is anyone on this l
ist who is attracted to Peter and Vineeto? What is it you admire about their wri
ting?
RESPONDENT: They have a peculiar way of expressing experiences which I can share
and recognize. What I wonder about, is what they call fact. And I must ask you,
Peter, what is a fact, when that which is a fact to you is not a fact to me?
VINEETO: From this different view of understanding the fact of death without an
after-life, I can see facts as naked as they are, without the embellishing veil
of love, compassion, hope, right and wrong, soul and inner world. I had taken al
l those feelings for facts before I met Richard, but after closer and honest inv
estigation they could not stand the scrutiny of my discrimination. I had had str
ong experiences or realisations about truth, love, hope etc. and that had made it
all the easier to believe them as real I dont deny that those experiences are rea
l. But they are not actual, which means, you cannot see, touch, hear, smell or t
aste them. They exist in the head and only in the head (or are felt in the heart
) and they are a bit different for everybody. A Christian sees Jesus in a vision
, a Sannyasins may hear Osho talk truth in their minds.
Facts are material facts, physical facts, sensual facts, scientifically proven f
acts (in opposition to a scientific theory like a black hole), what has really h
appened or is the case, as the Oxford dictionary says.
The so-called facts of the real world are mere beliefs. That millions of people be
lieve them does not make them facts. And belief can have amazing results. I have
had wonderful spiritual experiences and psychic understandings. But in comparis
on with the peak-experiences of the actual world it is evident and obvious that
they are mere passionate imaginations.

15.1.1999
RESPONDENT: Can you give me the references to the dictionary you are referring t
o?
VINEETO: Yes, I can. I appreciate your scrutiny.
The sentence that you are referring to was in a post to No. 12:
... belief per dictionary means fervently wishing to be true, while fact means what
has really happened or is the case.
The reference for the definition of fact is from the Macquarie dictionary:
[quote]: what has really happened or is the case; truth; reality: in fact rather
than theory, the fact of the matter is; something known to have happened; a tru
th known by actual experience or observation: scientists work with facts.
The reference for belief is from the Oxford Concise Dictionary Of English Etymol
ogy published by The Oxford University Press (c) 1996.
I quote the part in question:

[quote]: The etymology of the word believe comes from the Old English belefan (from g
elefan) derived from the Gothic galaubjan meaning hold dear or trust in. (This is fr
e + lief and the Old English word lief, leof, liob, liub from the Germanic lieb
iufs means to love or beloved as in dear meaning desirous). [endquote].

Hence believe means hold dear as in love desirously. Thus believing means dearly t
or desiring to be true. Thus the word believe means fervently wish to be true.
Does that answer your question?

15.1.1999
RESPONDENT No. 17: I have enjoyed your writings. But only one thing has been que
stionable to me. Its about being disciple of Osho. As far as I have understood,
you seem to had been a disciple of him to get something, Enlightenment, actual f
reedom, or anything you can call. It sounds a kind of bargain to me. It is very
strange compared with my experience of being a disciple of him. You are now OK.
Its good. But I think being disciple of Osho is not what you have experienced wh
ile you were a Rajneeshee.
RESPONDENT to No. 17: Yes, I agree with you on this, that being with Osho to get
something is a bargain. It becomes a search for yourself outside yourself. How
can Osho, or any master, give us what we already are, what we already have? My e
xperience of being a disciple of Osho is that he has shown me my identifications
with what is not me and he has shown what it takes to loosen these identificati
ons so that more and more space inside is left untouched by the world. In this s
pace meditation grows. It is an ever-on-going process.
VINEETO: Yes, for me it was always clear that I went to India and I became a dis
ciple of Osho to get something freedom, happiness, understanding of life, love and
enlightenment (once I learned about it).
Otherwise, why should a 26 year-old leave a wealthy country with a respectable j
ob, with friends and a loving family, to go to India a country so stricken with
poverty that it makes one weep every time one sees a human being, with filth tha

t you can hardly breathe, with corruption and all its pathetic implications? Why
should I go there, if there was not something I was hoping to get?
Of course the spiritual search is a bargain. I was with Osho for very selfish re
asons. I was hoping to learn something for a better life than the one I left beh
ind in the West.
I dont know what has attracted you, or you No. 17, to become a disciple? I am int
rigued to know.

17.1.1999
VINEETO: Yes, I can. I appreciate your scrutiny.
RESPONDENT: Why?
VINEETO: Why scrutiny? Scrutiny has been one of the main tools to make me free.
Scrutinizing every so-called fact for its factuality, every belief for its valid
ity which I always found lacking and scrutinizing every emotion that went on in
my head or my heart. Once I had understood that it is I who is in the road, my ego
in the head and my soul in the heart, I started to scrutinize whenever emotions
happened or beliefs surfaced. Underlying both emotions and beliefs I found the
instincts, in-built and innate in me and every other human being. To become free
of those beliefs I had to examine them thoroughly, study how they are expressed
, and how they are generally accepted in the moral system, the spiritual beliefsystem and amongst scientists. Everybody believes you cannot change human nature
. Well, I know you can change it you can even get rid of instincts. And it was s
crutiny that brought me to that freedom.
The second reason why I appreciate your scrutiny is because we are discussing ab
out facts, not feelings. In the feeling world everybody is in their private world,
but with facts as a basis communication and common sense are possible.
RESPONDENT: Yes, scientists may work with facts because they are working with th
e visible, the material, the measurable. The definitions found in dictionaries r
efers to that and to the commonly relied upon as truths, those are formed by the
way people have been living commonly unconsciously. The definitions are not tra
nsferable to the inner world, the individual world.
VINEETO: Exactly, the definitions are not transferable to the inner world, becau
se the inner world is a psychic construct, woven by the belief systems of millio
ns of people, yet felt differently by everybody. Everyone has their individual dre
am of their inner world and it has nothing to do with facts. Millions of Catholi
cs believe in Jesus, maybe half of them believe in Mother Marys immaculate concep
tion, but it is still their collective belief built upon a romantic fantasy. Imm
aculate conception is a factual impossibility.
Before I applied scrutiny I did believe almost everything that people would tell
me: life after death, reincarnation, the power of coloured waters, the workings
of chakras, the magic of stars, mysterious and miraculous healings, karmic caus
es for disease, the truth of Tarot, the existence of channelled entities, you na
me it.
But most wars are fought over beliefs, not over food and plain physical survival
. It is this inner individual world that causes fights and killing, famine and a
buse. Just now the fundamental Hindus have decided to attack the Indian Christia
ns one mans God is evil to another a conviction that resides in their inner indivi
dual world.

RESPONDENT: I find it strange that you, talking from your clarity, need the supp
ort of the definitions from dictionaries. I have an instinctive mistrust to quot
es, if you cant speak for yourself, from yourself, dont speak at all.
VINEETO: There is no other clarity in me than simply relying on facts, and not f
ollowing beliefs. This clarity exists because no beliefs and emotions are cloudi
ng my head. The actual world consists of what already exists, without the interp
retation or creation of anyones psychic effort.

Definitions from dictionaries are generally agreed on meanings of words. I am no

t making my own individual meaning of the words I use otherwise communication be
comes impossible, as it is quite apparent in the world of beliefs. Every religio
n has its own interpretation of God, soul, good, bad, etc., and people are ready to
for those interpretations. What then is so bad about investigating generally ag
reed upon definitions and proven facts? Otherwise I would become yet another gur
u creating yet another religion by convincing others of my individual inner Truth.
Actual is what is left when all beliefs and emotional interpretations are taken
away. Then a tree is a tree and a human being is a flesh and blood body with phy
sical senses and awareness.
RESPONDENT: Because there is nothing as facts working when it comes to individua
l living. What is a fact to you, may not be so for me.
VINEETO: I would like to know which facts you are talking
me an example how facts can be different for everybody? I
is the case the dictionary meaning for a fact can be
ar is a car, some people might have different preferences
not change the actuality of the car.

about. Could you give

still cant see how what
different for everybody. A c
about cars but it does

RESPONDENT: A quote, a definition from a dictionary says nothing about you.

VINEETO: That is the idea. I am eliminating me, the personal and instinctual self
inside this body to be able to experience the actual, which becomes apparent whe
n this me is not operating. This me is not only utterly irrelevant, but it is the ve
ry thing preventing me from experiencing the universe as the benevolent, magical
and pure perfection it is.
RESPONDENT: In this respect both you and Peter seem to me a bit unhuman, you hav
e reduced yourself to I dont know what denying every human aspect working, feelin
gs, thoughts.
VINEETO: Yes, freedom leaves Humanity behind, that giant club with all variation
s of individual, collective or instinctually-atavistic beliefs, with all feeling
s and emotion and instinctual passions. The strange thing is, when one leaves ev
erything behind that is considered human one becomes human for the first time beca
use ones animalistic heritage is being investigated and eliminated for the first
time in human evolution.
RESPONDENT: To become enlightened and to go beyond enlightenment doesnt mean that
the personality stops working. Being inside a body, being earthy requires a per
sonality. Another thing is to be able to distinct yourself from your personality
.
VINEETO: For communicative purposes I first want to agree upon a common understa
nding of what personality means. So I use the dictionary:
I, as a human being have been wired or programmed in a certain way. This wiring
consisted of the beliefs that had been instilled in me from the time when I firs

t was rewarded for good or punished for bad behaviour, and it included all the moral
s, values and ethics that would make me a fit member of society. On top of it, a
nd developing from the age of about seven were the beliefs and traits I would ta
ke on and develop as my own identity. At the core, inherited from Mother Natures surv
ival package, are our animal instincts of aggression, fear, nurture and desire.
In the process of becoming free from the Human Condition the emotional and socia
l characteristics are being eliminated by thorough investigation. What (not who) i
s left are foibles, talents, preferences, interests which are different in every
one as in definition No. 1. You can see the difference in Peters writing and my w
riting, and if you go to Richards web site his style is very different again. But
there is no emotional, social or instinctual personality remaining.
*

VINEETO: The etymology of the word believe comes from the Old English belefan (from g
elefan) derived from the Gothic galaubjan meaning hold dear or trust in. (This is fr
e + lief and the Old English word lief, leof, liob, liub from the Germanic lieb
iufs means to love or beloved as in dear meaning desirous). Hence believe mean
in love desirously. Thus believing means dearly trusting or desiring to be true. Thus
the word believe means fervently wish to be true.
RESPONDENT: Dearest Vineeto, from you clear space, cant you see how many, innumer
able ways there are to interpret these definitions? There are no facts here.
VINEETO: No I cant. Apart from the etymological description, belief in my own exper
ience vanished the moment I examined the desire for it to be true. It becomes eith
er a fact or a fantasy. It is the passionate hope that is might be true which ma
kes it a belief.
I have enjoyed our discussion and I am looking forward to your reply.

18.1.1999
RESPONDENT No 17: Its about being disciple of Osho. As far as I have understood,
you seem to have been a disciple of him to get something, Enlightenment, actual
freedom, or anything you can call.
RESPONDENT to No 17: Yes, I agree with you on this, that being with Osho to get
something is a bargain. It becomes a search for yourself outside yourself.
VINEETO: I dont know what has attracted you, or you, No. 17, to become a disciple
? I am intrigued to know.
RESPONDENT: The attraction was the feelings of wellbeing and relaxation I felt b
eing around Oshos people, the confirmation he gave me from reading his books, the
sweetness of his voice when listening to his discourses, the sexy look in his e
yes and the way his look made me feel
VINEETO: So, has it been a bargain, you have got something. From your answer I r
ead that you got wellbeing, relaxation, confirmation, sweetness, feeling good.
There is nothing wrong with getting something, it is a substantial part of attra
ction and for me it is useful and important to acknowledge the fact that there i
s a deal. Why call it bargain in a condemnatory way? To me that looks like one o
f the New Age rules of Thou shalt not bargain.
RESPONDENT: AND the fact(!) that his techniques worked. It was love all the way

and still is, love still growing.

VINEETO: On my way to an actual freedom I have investigated first scared and hes
itantly, then more and more confidently the meaning and workings of love. The fi
rst thing I found was that love which human beings know and feel is based on bar
gains and hope or trust for bargains. All relationships are based on that kind o
f love. If relationship would be a straight contract of bargains without the fee
lings of love, we would be able to investigate both sides of the contract and ag
ree or disagree. Love, being the antidote to loneliness makes this kind of inves
tigation impossible. It conveys the sense of belonging, and it can be traced bac
k to the instinctual need to group together for survival. So often, great fear a
nd sorrow arises when a loved one is in danger or dies or breaks the relationshi
p. It is not the broken contract that is bemoaned, it is the return to insecurit
y and loneliness that is so distressing.
To discover intimacy it was necessary for Peter and me to remove love from our r
elationship, and it made an actual meeting of the other person possible for the
first time, without any emotions, hopes, loves and hates, projections and fears.
It has also enabled me to examine the contents of my particular relationships w
ith other people, be it to the master or to the group of his disciples I felt co
nnected to. What kind of bargains, hidden or open, were part of the relating, wh
at fears and contracts were involved? And what were the emotions that would agai
n and again make me blind to otherwise obvious facts?
When I removed the feeling of love and the belief in the masters ultimate authori
ty then my previous conviction that Oshos techniques had worked for me was no lon
ger valid. I found his methods lacking lacking success in what I wanted to achie
ve in my life compared to the effort I had put into using his techniques. I foun
d that, after 17 years, I was neither happy nor harmless, I was neither enlighte
ned nor could I live at ease in the marketplace. I had made myself dependant on
the masters authority and on vague interpretations of what he had said millions o
f purposefully contradicting words, which every Sannyasin would interpret in a d
ifferent way.
To see the facts for what they are I had to examine and eliminate my emotions fi
rst all my emotions, the good ones and the bad ones. The very act of believing,
not only the content of the particular beliefs is such an insidious and automati
c faculty of the self without believing, the self simply withers away. It is made up
of belief, of emotion, of instinct.

21.1.1999
VINEETO: There has been so much mail going back and forth in the last few days,
I put some of your statements together in one post to respond.
RESPONDENT: You started this argument with what you had found, and end up making
statements about the entire humanity, just out of your own individual experienc
e. How big do you think you are?
VINEETO: This is the situation with facts in comparison to beliefs. Facts (not t
o be confused with truth) are applicable to everybody, while beliefs and feelings
are variable in each individual. I described how I investigated into the individ
ual version of my beliefs and my emotional reaction to situations. What I found
in the end are facts about the actual world that become apparent when we stop fe
eding our beliefs and emotions. What I found underlying conditioning and emotion
s, which differ in each culture and religion, were the basic survival instincts
that every human is equipped with at birth. It is not about how big I am, facts ar
e valid for everybody and the discovery of facts is not a personal claim for the

Truth.
RESPONDENT: There is a love, Vineeto, which liberates and comes totally alive wh
en you die. Try that one out, too. It doesnt have anything to do with the other,
but with love alone, love as being alive, love as breathing, love as being. You,
from your space of clarity, must see that we talk about two absolutely differen
t types of love.
VINEETO: You must be talking about Divine Love or Love Agap. Yes, I tried that ou
t. Especially love as ones being is very compelling such a nice sweet and powerful
identity it provides, I was almost tempted to remain in that state. But out of a
compelling pure consciousness experience I had my aim set on discovering an act
ual freedom and an actual world without emotions and beliefs. I had experienced
it since then often enough to know its utter purity and perfection. I had my eye
s set on a freedom from any kind of identity, be it normal or divine. The purity a
nd magnificence of the actual world leaves Divine Love far, far behind.
As I wrote to No 12 that in terms of relating, both human love and divine love o
perate on the principle of feeling. Both are affections that are addressed and dir
ected towards someone (human love) or All (Divine Love). Love to be maintained i
s dependant on people needing and wanting love. Therefore it is not actual.
RESPONDENT: Sure you became disappointed, because you wanted so much from the ma
n (Osho). Every child gets pissed off at their parents when they dont get what th
ey want.
VINEETO: I was a Sannyasin for peace of mind and for peace on earth, thats what I
understood enlightenment and the promised New Man to be. If you say that I want
ed too much, I am interested to hear what is your goal that you want to achieve
through Oshos teaching and methods.

21.1.1999
VINEETO: A short response about what you wrote to No 23:
RESPONDENT: You know, it is unbelievable that minds can be so thick. I havent giv
en up hope that there must be a gap, a small slice of openness for communication
to peep through, but it seems not so. Ive never before in my life come across so
meone so totally brainwashed, and it makes me a bit curious how is it possible?
But youre right, it is poison and it doesnt do good.
VINEETO: Good to hear that you have not given up yet. Maybe there is indeed some
thing we can agree upon. I am a very sensible and down-to-earth person, so who k
nows, there might be a chance.
You are right with the term of totally brainwashed I have washed not only my brain
clean of all conditionings, beliefs and social psittacisms, but I have also was
hed my heart or soul clean of any emotions and underlying animal instincts. With
neither a psychological nor a psychic entity one can experience the actual worl
d as it is, magnificent, sensuous, benign and perfect. It is possible, and it on
ly took me 18 months of intense and honest investigations into my ego of conditi
onings and beliefs and into my heart and soul, and it was utterly worth it. Life
is now so easy, so carefree and so simple as I always wanted it to be but could
never achieve through meditation and Eastern spiritualism.
Maybe you have no choice but to call it poison, because it has no nectar (love)
in it. But the actual is neither nectar nor poison, it is simply experiencing th
is moment of being alive without separation by any self. Moral eyes may see that a

s poison. The same applies to your perception that I am not human:

RESPONDENT: Me not into discussions. You not human to share from yourself as you
are beyond humanity, becoming a dictionary parrot instead. Me not want to bla b
la with parrots.
VINEETO: What has been considered human up to now is this: Every human is born w
ith a set of instincts (fear, aggression, nurture and desire) meant to ensure th
e survival of the species. Further we are imbibed with a social identity from ea
rly age consisting of the particular morals and ethics of the tribe or culture w
e are born into. We further develop an individual identity within the tribe cons
isting mainly of the particular beliefs or customs that appeal to us for whateve
r reason. This collection of hard-wiring and programming we fondly call me, and we
then proceed into the world to make our way as best we can. No wonder everyone
feels lost, lonely and frightened and develops a very cunning nature. Thus our p
ersonal view of the world is so dense, so thick, so instinctually perceived as t
o be real, that it is taken to be set in concrete as it were.
Someone who has freed himself, or herself, from this entire set of beliefs, emot
ions and instincts must look unhuman to everyone else who is still trapped in the
Human Condition. I think I have shared more about myself than many others here,
but not in the emotional way you are used to, or expected me to.
RESPONDENT to No 14: But the day you wake up to your awareness, you dont let the
animal in you rule you. I used to fear my animal take me over totally, now I enj
oy being taken. It isnt anymore to it than this.
VINEETO: This is where our aims clearly differ. I set out to eliminate my animal i
n me in order to be able to rely on myself completely so that I can be sure that
I would not cause harm or feel sorrow. From the way you use the word awareness it
seems rather a tool for control (as in ... dont let the animal in you rule you), a
lthough then the now I enjoy being taken does not make any sense to me.
What do you want to achieve by waking up to awareness. You seem to mean somethin
g different when you use the word than I do. Thats were I found the fundamental d
ifference between the spiritual approach to the human capacity for awareness and
the way I used it to become free. One can use awareness to investigate and elim
inate conditioning, emotions, beliefs and instincts to become completely free of
the Human Condition (hence you perceive me as being unhuman).
The spiritual approach to achieve enlightenment, however, uses awareness to crea
te a separate entity, the watcher and teaches to shift the identity from normal to
the watcher. But it leaves all the instincts and emotions intact, albeit apparent
ly dormant, but they can erupt if that new grand identity is threatened. Not onl
y in my personal life, but also on a global scale I found that spiritual approac
h to awareness very wanting in its attempt to bring an actual peace. It has neit
her brought me peace of mind and it has vastly contributed to all the wars, rape
s, murders and poverty in the world.

28.1.1999
VINEETO: Since you did not answer the two letters I sent you last week, I take i
t that you agree with me.
*
Now to your proposal

VINEETO to No 8: Isnt it a wonderful thing to discover a nasty trick of this very

cunning entity, and by discovering it disentangle oneself of its tentacles? You
move from not objecting to to agreeing with to beginning to investigate into to
becoming thrilled and finally obsessed with the journey into your psyche slowly
freeing yourself of the stranglehold the Human Condition has on us!
RESPONDENT: Yes, Vineeto, you are right. What you describe here is a really slow
and arduous journey just to find out in the end that the psyche as such is noth
ing but a mind full of nasty tricks. Why move so slow when you can just step rig
ht out of the whole thing?
To be the watcher, the witness is to be out of the mind.
VINEETO: So is that why you are on the spiritual path it looks like a short-cut?
The way you described the whole process is like a real short-cut, shifting ones
identity from the nasty tricks to the wonderful identity of being the removed wa
tcher.
It reminds me of another instant solution that is offered now-a-days: if people
have trouble finding a suitable girl-friend, then she is not willing to have as
much sex as the man wants, then there is daily quarrel from living together, the
n the unresolved question of having children or not, then the money spent on her
etc etc. So, the instant solution why not step out of the whole relationship tr
ouble, be the watcher, get a blue movie and have virtual pleasure instead? Much
quicker, much cheaper and discard-able as well!
With the watcher, the witness, you not dis-identify from the mind, but also from
the body and thus from the actual world. You go into a fantasy world where you
are one with the universe, living in perfect love and bliss, imagining yourself to
be God or something similarly grand, in short, off the planet. Of course, it ap
peals, since the world where we find ourselves in is littered with sorrow, malic
e and anxieties. The spiritual solution is to just say, this body-mind is not me and
you then you will be out of trouble.
But your body is not a projection on a screen that can be switched off. Pity, is
nt it? Your body needs food, a place to stay, money to be maintained, healthy to
be well, it can be physically hurt by others and then feels pain. It is actual.
Further, this body is inflicted with the Human Condition of malice and sorrow. A
lthough these emotions, beliefs and instincts are all products of the imaginary s
elf (or Self), they are very real when experienced by yourself and others around yo
u.
So, you say, one is imagining all this and it is not happening or it is an illus
ion, and further that you are only witnessing it from some inner world which can
not be talked about but only felt.
I went in the opposite direction I decided to clean up myself from this alien en
tity that is the root cause for all the experienced misery and suffering. Then I
dont need to go somewhere else, then I can be here on this abundantly verdant plan
et earth and delight in experiencing this physical universe as a sensate and ref
lective human being.
It is a different ballgame all together.

31.1.1999
VINEETO: Here some more words, again ... to answer your questions, communicated
in words...

Richard: When the ultimate moment happens, one finds that one has gone beyond eve
rything. Nothing remains, only utter stillness abounds. The perfection and purit
y of the stillness is impossible to imagine it has to be lived to be known. The
journey is over, one has arrived at ones destination. Ones destiny is here. Richar
ds Journal, Article 23
RESPONDENT: Why are these words aptly to you only when they are said by Richard?
VINEETO: Because they are. They are said by a man who lives in the actual world
24 hours a day, every day. They are said by a man who has been enlightened for 1
1 years until he saw through the delusion it was. They are said by a pioneer who
has discovered a method for human beings to rid themselves of the Human Conditi
on for the first time in 5000 years of human history of malice and sorrow.
RESPONDENT: How come these words loose all meaning for you when said by someone
else?

VINEETO: Nobody has said these words before, nobody has ever proposed that all of
the self both ego and soul is the problem and that self-extinction is the only sens
ble and possible solution. All the great Gurus talk about only death of the ego,
nobody has ever questioned the soul. None of the Gurus has gone all the way, be
yond enlightenment and beyond being, to arrive in the perfection and purity of the
actual world.

1.2.1999
VINEETO: With the watcher, the witness, you not only go out of the mind, but out
of the body and out of the actual world as well. You go into a fantasy world wh
ere you are one with the universe, living in perfect love and bliss, imagining you
rself to be God or something similar, in short, off the planet.
RESPONDENT: Are you telling me that I go into a fantasy world? It is obvious you
know nothing about witnessing.
VINEETO: I know witnessing, and thats why I say one goes into the remote fantasyworld of the witnesser where he feels dis-identified from the pains and emotions of
the normal world, in order to feel blissful and compassionate toward everyone who
is not so remote yet. You say it yourself:
[Respondent]: A lot of hard work prepared me for the happening. The happening wa
s instant, and it has created a bridge between mind and no-mind which I can easi
ly go over with only one step.
Why move so slow when you can just step right out of the whole thing? To be the
watcher, the witness is to be out of the mind. [endquote].
*
VINEETO: So, you say one is imagining all this and it is not happening or is an
illusion, and further that you are only witnessing it from some inner world whic
h cannot be talked about but only felt.
RESPONDENT: Hey, stick to your facts, Vineeto! I want you to show me where in my
mail I said this. If you cannot show me, this is your talk, your bullshit talk.
You speak about facts! Dont think you can show me anything other than you making
hens out of feathers, that is what you do. Phah!

VINEETO: The world is an illusion

[Respondent]:
After all, it is our inner which creates and then perceives the outer. [endquote
].
Witnessing life lived from the remote inner world of the watcher
[Respondent]:
Inner world which cannot be talked about but only be felt
[Respondent]:
Well, you said,
[Respondent]: Show me where in my mail I said this. If you cannot show me, this
is your talk, your bullshit talk. You speak about facts! Dont think you can show
me anything other than you making hens out of feathers, that is what you do. Pha
h! [endquote].
The cultivation of a spiritual watcher and the subsequent Self-realisation is a me
re delusion (an illusion fabricated out of an illusion), whereby the psychic ent
ity feels it is Immortal and Eternal. Spiritual freedom is imaginary, cerebral, fl
eeting, emotive (loving), compassionate (sorrowful), and woe-fully corrupted by
power and authority.
Actual Freedom lies 180 degrees in the opposite direction to spiritual freedom.
It is actual, sensate, tangible, ever-present, delightful, pure and perfect and
available to any who is daring enough to free themselves of both the psychologic
al and psychic entities within.

2.2.1999
RESPONDENT: I am happy to wish you good-bye from this list of 180 degrees-wronge
rs. On your journey home I would like to send my reply with you.
VINEETO: Good bye, to you too.
Im not going anywhere, neither home nor away, but good bye anyway. I am just here
where I want to be.
Obviously another direction is of no interest for you. You must have found what
you were looking for.
RESPONDENT: Whatever I say you turn up side down or 180 degrees away from the or
iginal meaning, I dont recognise my sayings out of your conclusions at all.
VINEETO: I cant help it, the actual world is 180 degrees in the other direction t
han all the teachers and gurus want to make us believe.
RESPONDENT to No. 13: I dont let my mind interfere as much as I used to ...
VINEETO: Maybe that is the reason of our difficulty in communicating I like to u
se my brain to sort things out, but I am very wary should feeling or emotions in
terfere with my happiness.

So I wish you a merry Christmas And a happy New Year,

I hope its a good one Without any fear.
War is over, if you want to
War is over now ow ow ow...
John Lennon
Its one of my favourite songs, all year round...

12.2.1999
RESPONDENT No 12: Almost all killing is a passionate affair, unless one practice
s dis-association, and then it simply becomes a mindless affair.
RESPONDENT to No 12: Beloved, Hmmmm, you have a way with words here, I like it!
VINEETO: Dont blame or praise No 12. Peter wrote that to him, which doesnt make it
less of a fact, by the way.
If only people can understand that much, that dis-association through Zen merely
makes killing a mind-less affair and does nothing to stop it, then writing on t
he list was good for something.
Bye, bye now, weve been finally banned.

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===
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c-corr26.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 26

Topics covered
Shifting identity, how to eliminate emotions, identity, belief, How am I experie
ncing ... * happy and harmless, heightened senses, diminishing fear

26.1.1999
VINEETO to No 12: The spiritual practice of awareness only shifts ones identity to t
he watcher, a newly created spiritual identity. When those transcended emotions and
instincts return because the watcher wasnt watchful enough, they are raging in fu
ll force. Instincts are not being eliminated by transcendence, not even reduced,
they are only put aside through dis-identification.
No, not witness eliminate, remove, extinguish. There is a big difference. Witnes
sing creates a new entity, the watcher. One is to identify with and become the watc
her and dismiss or transcend the rest as imaginary. Body-mind, emotion, thought a
nd senses, as well as the physical world, are considered an illusion, while Cons
ciousness is proclaimed to be ones true nature.
RESPONDENT: Youre saying eliminate, how do you apply that in practice? Please tel
l me more about your approach.
VINEETO: Where have you been? In many of our posts Peter and I have been talking
about eliminating emotions and very often described how we did it.
I remember your last mail to Peter where you said:
RESPONDENT: Until now your messages are not making my heart sing. Are you perhap
s trying too hard?
VINEETO: I dont think that this letter will make your heart sing, because it is t
he heart, the feeling being, that inhibits experiencing the perfection and purity of
the actual world. It is the affective being that interprets what is actual with a
wide range of emotional responses. Eliminating emotions wont make your heart sin
g, it will silence it forever. No longer will you feel sad, desperate, lonely, f
rightened, melancholic, compassionate (i.e. suffering together), malicious, rese
ntful, insulted, hopeful, jealous, angry, anxious or hateful.
These emotions and instinctual passions will be replaced by something else, some
thing far superior. Pristine purity, perfection and the delight of heightened se
nses a smorgasbord of tastes, a cacophony of sounds, a magic range of vivid colo
urs and movements, an abundance of smells. Without self you will be able to see an
d treat other people as your fellow human beings benevolent and beneficent.
Now to your question: How do you apply that in practice?
First of all, you have to be a seeker and an investigator and not a believer or
a follower.
Then, I had to acknowledge the fact that my emotions are me and by eliminating my
emotions I am eliminating the very essence of me. So this recipe for eliminating e
motions and instincts is, in fact, a recipe for the self-immolation of the psych
ological and psychic entity inside of you.
Peter gave a very descriptive report in his journal of how he did it:
Peter: Broadly, what emerged that I could relate to was that I, as a human being,

had been programmed since birth with a set of beliefs, which formed my social i
dentity, and that by identifying, challenging and investigating these beliefs th
ey could be eliminated. Further, I had come into the world pre-programmed with a
set of instinctual passions, and these instinctual passions too could be simila
rly eliminated. The I that I think I am and that I feel I am, that troublesome psy
chological and psychic entity, was actually nothing more than the sum total of t
hese beliefs and instinctual passions! And the whole package could be got rid of
! Not transcended as in the spiritual world, but actually annihilated. It sounde
d good to me if a touch scary.
The essential method was to undertake a total investigation into anything that w
as preventing me from being happy and harmless now after all, the point of livin
g is to be happy and harmless now, not at some time in the future, or at some ti
me in the past. The question to ask myself was, How do I experience this moment o
f being alive? Now is, after all, the only time I can experience being happy. Any
emotion such as anger, frustration or boredom that is preventing my happiness n
ow, has to be traced back to its cause the exact incident, thought, expectation
or disappointment. At the root of this emotion is inevitably found a belief or a
n instinctual passion. The ruthless challenging, exposing and understanding of t
hese beliefs and instinctual passions actually weakens their influence on my tho
ughts and behaviour. The process, if followed diligently and obsessively, will u
ltimately cause the beliefs to disappear completely and the instinctual passions
to be greatly minimized. The idea, of course, is to eliminate the cause of my u
nhappiness, me, so that I can experience life at the optimum, here, now.
It soon presents success incrementally, as freedom from these beliefs and instin
ctual passions will indeed inevitably result in increased peace and harmony for
myself and in my relating with those around me. The method does bring up fear an
d resistance, because one is dismantling ones very self, those very beliefs one hol
ds so dearly.
It sounds so simple, but most people who had talked to Richard were not even wil
ling to take a small step along the way. Most people would seemingly like their
life to be better, but faced with the prospect of actually having to do somethin
g themselves, or having to change the way they are, they soon turned away, only
to re-run the tried and failed methods. Of course, the major fear is that it will
work and the identity will go in toto! For me, I just figured that I had nothing
left to lose; it was either a slow, miserable, painful, death-like life or a quic
k death of what I saw as the problem the self or psychological and psychic entity wi
thin. Peters Journal Introduction
The core sentence and the key method to eliminating emotions is to ask oneself Ho
w am I experiencing this moment of being alive? With this sentence you can take a
part the whole of your psyche, bit by bit, digging deeper and deeper into your u
nconscious. Whenever you are not happy now, there is something to look at. And e
very moment not being happy, or not investigating into the reasons of unhappines
s, is a wasted moment. There is only now, there is only this moment, yesterday i
s but a memory, tomorrow but a fantasy. If I waste this moment of being alive, b
ecause I am complaining about something, or because I am worried or half-hearted
, it is a wasted moment of my life. This method is so wonderfully simple, so obv
ious when you start applying it and yet, with all our conditioning, beliefs, ins
tinctual passions and emotions in action, it is very difficult to comprehend and
actualize. But applying this method diligently and persistently, you can examin
e and investigate everything that keeps you from being happy now. If you are int
erested, there is a detailed description on this URL: Richard, Articles, This Mo
ment of Being Alive
Richard gives a wonderful description of the time when the seeking stops and one
arrives at ones destiny:

Richard: The day finally dawns where the definitive moment of being here, right
now, conclusively arrives; something irrevocable takes place and every thing and
every body and every event is different, somehow, although the same physically;
something immutable occurs and every thing and every body and every event is al
l-of-a-sudden undeniably actual, in and of itself, as a fact; something irrevers
ible happens and an immaculate perfection and a pristine purity permeates every
thing and every body and every event; something has changed forever, although it
is as if nothing has happened, except that the entire world is a magical fairyt
ale-like playground full of incredible gladness and a delight which is never-end
ing. My demise was as fictitious as my apparent presence. I have always been here, I
realize, that I only imagined that I existed. It was all an emotional play in a fer
tile imagination ... which was, however, fuelled by an actual hormonal substance
triggered off from within the brain-stem. Richards Journal, Article 18 (edited)

28.1.1999
RESPONDENT: Ive been here, receiving Sannyas-list e-mails every day. I did, howeve
r, delete most of the ones coming from you and Peter (without reading them), mai
nly because I found them too lengthy to get into. <...>
...thank you, Vineeto for your detailed reply and explanation offered. I will ta
ke some time to digest this and not comment on it now.
VINEETO: Thank you for your gracious answer.
I am pleased to hear you want to take some time to digest. Contrary to what most
people perceive it is something vastly different to what we have been told in S
annyas.
Hoping that I am not causing indigestion, I will still answer your second questi
on you can always read or comment on it later or not at all. The moment my lette
rs are clicked send there are no strings attached. However, I keep all corresponde
nce for future reference should anyone be interested in matters of Actual Freedo
m.
Now your question:
RESPONDENT: Let me give this another go, in a new packaging. Does, what you call
elimination, happen without effort, or is it something that has to be done?
VINEETO: While I am taking a particular emotion or belief apart, digging deeper
and deeper into its root cause, something is done, effort is applied. I am using m
y brain, contemplating, investigating, searching, daring, asking, questioning, d
oubting, until I get to the bottom of that particular issue. It is part of me, an
alien, but fiercely defended, entity inside my body, for I am nothing but my feeli
ngs, emotions, beliefs and instinctual passions. Hence I will do everything to obs
truct this questioning, this investigating and this eliminating, for I am terribly
afraid to die.
To investigate in spite of that fear requires courage, effort and a burning inte
nt. Only after I have dug deeply into that issue, exposed it to the light of awa
reness and understanding, it will disappear without effort, never to rear its ugly
head again.
At the same time, removing the filtering veils of beliefs and fears, my senses b
ecome heightened, I am more here and less in fear, love, hope, churning emotions
or in remote fairy-worlds. I am on this planet, on the chair, the rain pouring
on the leaves sounds deliciously in my ears, the fridge is humming, my toes curl

ing in delight. Life is eminently easy and wonder-ful, magically abundant and ca
refree. Once all discoveries are made, all beliefs dismantled, all instincts lai
d bare, they go up in smoke and I will die the illusory death that ends the existe
nce of the self. To investigate into the survival instincts of the self is effort, l
iving in this actual world is utterly effortless, an ongoing delight.

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===
=====
c-corr08.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 8

Topics covered
Mind splitting definitions, watcher, spiritual identity, recovering intelligence
* transcending reality, self * remembering PCE, changing myself, living together, b
lame, feelings, apperception * actual reality, superior, I am this body, 180 degre
es opposite * logical imagination

23.1.1999
VINEETO: Hi,
It is good fun to read your discussions on the list. Great to see one more perso
n writing about his own experiences and investigations.
I just want to clarify one point you wrote:
RESPONDENT: As Vineeto and Peter often point out, the mind is also very good at
splitting a bit of itself off to become the watcher.
VINEETO: I have said to No 12:

[Vineeto]: instincts come back, they are back in full force. They have not been e
liminated or even reduced, only put aside or watched by the watcher. Vineeto, List C
, No 12, 7.1.1999
and:
[Vineeto]: No, not witness eliminate. There is a big difference. Witnessing crea
tes a new entity, the watcher. One is to identify with and to become the watcher and
dismiss or transcend the rest as imaginary. Body-mind, emotions, thoughts and s
enses as well as the physical world are considered as an illusion, while Conscio
usness is proclaimed to be ones true nature. Vineeto, List C, No 12, 10.1.1999
and to No 4:
[Vineeto]: The spiritual approach to achieve enlightenment, however, uses awaren
ess to create a separate entity, the watcher and teaches to shift the identity fro
m normal to the watcher. But it leaves all the instincts and emotions intact, albe
it apparently dormant, but they can erupt if that new grand identity is threaten
ed. Vineeto, List C, No 4, 21.1.1999
This is different from mind splitting a bit of itself. The psychological and psy
chic entity is shifting all of its self to the watcher.
RESPONDENT: I am beginning to agree that that is a nasty trick of the mind. I he
ar Vineeto and Peter saying that this is the last trap.
VINEETO: Yes, it is a trap, but if you ask me, I would say not the last. It is r
ather one of the first traps one encounters discovering and investigating the Hu
man Condition. And again, it is not the mind but the psychological and psychic ent
ity inside of us, which includes emotions and instincts.
On the way to an actual freedom, the first thing is to acknowledge that one has,
in fact, got a spiritual identity on the spiritual path one has consciously cre
ated the watcher who is holier than thou, superior, more loving and far advanced t
o those who are unaware.
As I said to No 18:
[Vineeto]: I did not have to go through the loss of mind quite the opposite I actua
lly recovered my intelligence after all those years of trying to ignore it and u
sed it to question beliefs and instincts. By honestly and vigilantly asking the
question How do I experience this moment of being alive I was able to slowly, slow
ly investigate all my emotions, instincts and beliefs my very self (ego + soul). Vi
neeto, List C, No 18, 15.1.1999
Isnt it a wonderful thing to discover a nasty trick of this very cunning entity a
nd by discovering it disentangle oneself of its tentacles? You move from not obj
ecting to to agreeing with to beginning to investigate to becoming thrilled and
finally obsessed with the journey into your psyche slowly freeing yourself of th
e stranglehold the Human Condition has on us!
So, it is good to be precise with words. A clear understanding can lead you to a
realisation, which can lead to a peak-experience. Then you can experience for y
ourself the actuality of what we are talking about the purity, the obviousness,
the fairy-tale like magic of the self being temporarily absent.

24.1.1999

VINEETO: I liked how you said that sometimes you put really time aside to read a
nd to understand. But in this letter to No. 12 I came across another bit where f
or the life of me I cant find any relationship with what I said and what you hear
d (or read). The good thing with writing is that it is very easily being sorted
out, everything is still there, in black and white.
RESPONDENT to No 12: I came to OSHO pretty well caught up in my mind. I found ou
t slowly that there is a much more enjoyable place to come from. now I can come
from that place, through my mind, or through my heart, as I choose. my mind does
not create pain and distance for me anymore. my heart neither. I can imagine th
at some people are still hoping that love or meditation will get them somewhere
other than where they are right now. some transcendent place.
I hear Peter and Vineeto saying, there is nothing transcending the reality of yo
u, in your body now, experiencing the universe through your senses and your abil
ity to reflect. For anyone still living in hope that there is a way out of that
actual reality, their posts are very threatening.
VINEETO: Look, I dont know what you mean by nothing transcending the reality of yo
u. It does not make sense to me. Would you please explain to me what it is you he
ar that Peter or I were saying?

30.1.1999
RESPONDENT: Now that you have initiated things I would like to go into a few thi
ngs more deeply with you. We can start with the things you raise here.
VINEETO: Yes, great, and I would like to start with your last sentence, to find yo
u again:
So, it is good to be precise with words. A clear understanding can lead you to a
realization, which can lead to a peak-experience. Then you can experience for y
ourself the actuality of what we are talking about the purity, the obviousness,
the fairy-tale like magic of the self being temporarily absent.
RESPONDENT: Ahhh, now you lose me. Clearly you are saying that there is more for
me to experience. Clearly you believe I do not experience the actuality of what
you are talking about. Perhaps this is the case. Truthfully, when you talk abou
t the self being temporarily absent, I do not know what you are talking about. Can
you explain more how one knows when ones self is absent???
VINEETO: From my own experience of the first major peak-experience I know that w
ithout the comparison of such an experience it is difficult to locate and isolat
e the self. Only after I experienced that the self consists of my emotions as well a
s my beliefs could I get a grip on this amorphous psychic entity that is me. I com
e here into this moment and leave my self behind.
When you have a peak-experience and the self is absent this fact is very obvious t
o you. There is no sense of separation to anything and anybody whatsoever. There
is no feeling or emotion and you know that this is not your imagination, it is
simply so. I have written to No 13 about Pure Consciousness Experiences (PCE) an
d you may want to read a few descriptions in Peters Journal. It takes a bit of re
ading to get the gist of it, a PCE is so very different from our everyday experi
ence of life as a self. These are the links:

If you cant remember a peak-experience, another way to approach the subject is to

determine how the self is present what feeling do I have now?, whats my objection t
being here?, what longing to connect with someone?, what slight feeling of numb

ness or boredom?, what irritation about someones words or behaviour? Driving a ca

r was always a good test for me, so many ways to get irritated, and so unnecessa
rily. The self, when investigated, can be very cunning in disguising itself as the
imagination of having arrived because then one stops dismantling it. I have every
investment not to be found out, not to die. And yet, I am the only thing in the w
ay of experiencing this blithe and perfect moment of being alive.
RESPONDENT: Over the last couple of years I was experiencing great bliss and cer
titude by perceiving in myself an inviolable, ever present, absolutely still, ce
ntre of consciousness. Indeed, there was a longing in me to identify with that,
and to somehow perceive Everything Else, as transient and thus illusory. I went
with that longing into the watching space. In that way I became protected from t
he world and from myself. I had learnt to be in the world but not of it. <snip>
VINEETO: You have already discovered quite a lot of those various imaginations t
hat the self throws up in order to stay in existence. You seem quite familiar with
some of the tricks of this cunning entity. In my investigations I found that I
was as honest with myself as could be and still find another trick lurking in th
e corner, another imagination that everything is alright now, that I can stop se
arching. For that detective work into ones own cunningness, the cunningness of the
Human Condition, it is very helpful that you recall and remember a peak-experien
ce. It will fuel your intent not to stop at second best. As you said so aptly:
RESPONDENT: All that time there was also an awareness that still, something was
missing. <snip>
If only people could be more aware; if only people would become conscious ... the
n my life would be ok. Somewhere I was still not completely at ease.
VINEETO: Yes, how can one be at ease if it depends on somebody else changing the
situation? It was one of the main attractions to Richards method that I saw the
possibility for complete freedom without removing myself from the world and othe
r people the option to be independently happy regardless of how other people dec
ide to live their lives. Removing my self that feels insulted, that objects, that
wants to control, etc made me free of malice and sorrow. For my peace, nobody el
se needs to change except me. Not even the man I am living with. Thats a good che
ck up to know if your self is still present.
RESPONDENT: My wife and I were, and are, constantly examining ourselves and each
other. But we dont do it in a dry, serious way, sitting in a chair thinking abou
t things. It is more like we act out our psychodramas with each other and then w
e pull each others tails. We find what is obvious, what is sticking out clearly to
us about the behaviour of the other and we go deeply into that with each other.
We agree to be willing to reveal all thoughts and feelings with each other. We a
ctually do that to an extent I have never seen in anyone else.
VINEETO: In my initial contract with Peter, which was that we would look at ever
ything in the road between us, it was also implied that each of us had to do it
for ourselves. It was one of the first things that I, and Peter as well, had to
work out. I had to cut the ties of making my happiness and search for freedom de
pendant on him. It was also the first dent into the usually unspoken of love-cont
ract that causes most relationship troubles. Peter has described it very well in
the Living together-chapter of his journal. It became clear that my issues are my
issues, if I wanted to talk about them, fine, if not, that was solely my busines
s. The same with Peter. If I got upset about a particular behaviour of his, then
this was my issue, not his. Why should he change to make me happy? It then woul
d not only be interfering with his life but also make myself dependant on him, I
would not be free.
This way we could keep the interaction between us free of blame, compromise and

resentment, and did not mess in each others lives. Then every issue we talked abo
ut was an issue of the Human Condition and each could investigate as far as he/s
he wanted to. But we were both determined to not stop at second best.
RESPONDENT: In revealing myself to my wife, I am of course revealing myself to m
yself. <snip for space> I am involved and loving it. As emotions get understood
they have less and less charge. More and more it is not feelings that define my
experience, but senses and reflection. I do have feelings sometimes very very de
ep and strong ones but on the whole they less and less define my life. I worked
with my feelings a lot in many environments before I could start using them to d
evour themselves as I am more able to do now. Living-of-feelings in tandem with
deep honest exploration leads to a place of life-without-the-filter-of-feelings.
It is indeed a joy to be living in the actual world.
RESPONDENT: What do you mean by feelings devour themselves ?
VINEETO: It is a joy, the less feelings both good and bad feelings and the less
emotions, beliefs and instincts are in the road, the more one can see the worldas-it-is and people-as-they-are, independent of ones personal self. And the explora
tion goes on and on until there is no emotion left, no feeling left, no imaginat
ion left no who whatsoever. Until one is only this flesh-and-blood body with sense
s fully alive and an awareness of what is happening. Neither the little man in th
e head nor the little man in the heart are there to give you a sense of identity.
Richard describes it wonderfully as apperception takes charge:

Richard: With apperception operating more or less continuously, I find it harder an

d harder to maintain credibility. I am increasingly seen as the usurper, an alien
entity inhabiting this body and taking on an identity of its own. Mercilessly ex
posed in the bright light of awareness apperception casts no shadows I can no long
er find my position tenable. I can only live in obscuration, where I lurk about, crea
ing all sorts of mischief. My time is speedily coming to an end; I can barely mainta
in myself any longer... Richards Journal, Article 18
RESPONDENT: Certainly you and Peter and Richard have been catalytic in me lettin
g go of my attachment to defining my true identity in a spiritual way. It clicked
that I had been somehow denying my experience by the tendency to identify with t
he watcher. I had been splitting myself in two. The experiencer and the watcher.
Somehow I was giving the watcher a higher status because it was more spiritual. S
omehow your writings have triggered a fusion of the two parts of me. Letting go
of my wanting to be spiritual; letting go of my desire to transcend; letting go
of my desire to be safe in the watching space, I find myself in my body, enjoyin
g my senses, the feelings that sometimes come and go, and my reflections on all
that. I hope this explains in more precision my experience. I know this may not
be exactly yours. I know that when I summarise what I hear you saying, without e
nough care on my part for precision, then I am putting one leg out of the actual
reality I enjoy. what we share with each other is such a pleasing part of that
actual reality. Dont you agree?
VINEETO: Richard said he had met many people who would agree that the spiritual
path had not worked for them, thank him for pointing it out, go away and give up
looking any more. Well, not so for me, thank you! And you too seem to be intere
sted in finding out more about this curious business of dismantling all of the se
lf and ridding yourself of the cunning entity inside, made up of ego and soul.
I have trouble with your expression of the actual reality that you enjoy. I dont re
ally know what it means for you. Does this mean that you are now not the watcher b
ut the experiencer or the one who enjoys?
RESPONDENT: And now something I would like to hear you speak more about:

Yes, I hope you see that I agree and acknowledge the necessity of disposing of t
he constructed spiritual self. You do indeed seem to have recovered your intelli
gence and I like that in you. With intelligence and senses heightened, you are s
urely experiencing a state of great awareness. Does not that make you different
or more advanced than those who are unaware? You have dropped the spirituality, bu
t in this actual world do you not get some sense of pleasure and the distancing
that goes with that pleasure when you see how far you have got? perhaps it is no
t your watcher who is holier or superior or whatever... But is now the whole of yo
u in its own perception better than all the people who are still completely stuc
k in the human condition and as well, those who are beginning to find a way out
albeit a false, spiritual one? Can you be free and aware without identifying wit
h that advanced state?
VINEETO: I can only be free without feeling that I am in an advanced state, withou
t being the One in the advanced state. The moment there is a feeling superior, a feel
ing advanced, a feeling grand, then the self has found yet another identity to thrive
on.
But living in this
eriencing intimacy
r to anything else
eing the watcher,
disappearance I am
my life.

magnificent actual world, without a self preventing me from exp

with every thing, event or person is, in fact, vastly superio
I have ever experienced in my life. It is vastly superior to b
being the disciple, being the seeker or being the experiencer. Wit
able to do what is happening, at ease, every single moment in

And I have enjoyed our comparing of notes immensely.

31.1.1999
VINEETO: Thank you for your mails. I have enjoyed your detailed descriptions of
your life.
*
VINEETO: Look, I dont know what you mean by nothing transcending the reality of yo
u. It does not make sense to me. Would you please explain to me what it is you he
ar that Peter or I were saying?
RESPONDENT: I see that I have left a couple of words out of my expression, and p
erhaps put a comma in the wrong place. I can see now that my expression could be
taken by you to indicate I was saying the exact opposite of what I was intendin
g to. <SNIP>
... and then lets completely reformulate the sentence:
If you imagine there is anything of you that is beyond the actuality of you in yo
ur body now experiencing the universe through your senses and your ability to re
flect, then Peter and Vineeto are challenging that imagining.
VINEETO: The trouble with quoting others is that the re-quoting needs your imagi
nation unless the experience of the other is your own experience. With imaginati
on it is very hard to hit the exact spot. But when you talk about your own exper
ience it is easy to compare notes, which of our experiences are the same and whi
ch differ.
Now back to your sentence that you were reformulating:

RESPONDENT: I hear you saying that you no longer need to identify yourself with
anything transcendent. You are no longer identifying yourself with all-that-is, or
supreme-being, or God, or the universe. You are no longer identifying yourself
with something above or independent of the universe. You are no longer identifyi
ng yourself with a being beyond matter, and having a continuing existence therefo
re outside the created world. Macquarie, 2nd ed., defn of transcendent
VINEETO: It is not that I no longer need to identify myself with anything transce
ndent, on the contrary, the I that feels, imagines or identifies does no longer exi
st in my body. I am this body and nothing else.
I have not gone somewhere else, dis-identifying myself from me I am disappearing
and therefore there is not much I or self to identify or dis-identify with anything
. That way you get to the root of the problem. No escape. The I itself gets dimini
shed to the point of being almost non-existent and only then can self-immolation
occur. When the I disappears, there is only this body, sensate, reflective, alive
, here in this moment in time, fresh each moment.
RESPONDENT: You know now that you in your body sensing and reflecting is all of
you. You are simply a human being. The rest is the universe. And that is amazing
.

VINEETO: [When in a pure consciousness experience] there is no I in this body, I a

m this body. Yes, I am simply a human being and as such I am the universe experi
encing itself as a sensate and reflective human being. It is not I and the rest ther
e is no separation, because there is no self to feel or be separated (or to need to f
el connected through love or through sharing sorrow).
And each moment is thrilling, fascinating, fresh and amazing.
RESPONDENT: I hear you saying that you are a human being, and a human being is a
flesh and blood body with physical senses and awareness.
VINEETO: Thats right.
RESPONDENT: I just went through your recent posts to see if my understanding of
what you were saying is close to what you actually said. well, I found a lot of
your words that seem to be saying what I said, above. Perhaps you disagree. If t
hat is the case let me know. Let me know anyway!
VINEETO: It does take bit of digging in to understand what Richard, Peter and I
are saying, simply because it is 180 degrees in the opposite direction of the An
cient Wisdom that we have been taught throughout our lives. But it is well worth
the investigation to understand the words that describe the actual world and th
at describe the method to get there.
Then you get to experience the perfection and purity of the actual world, 24 hou
rs a day, for the rest of your life.

9.2.1999
RESPONDENT: I havent forgotten that I have two posts of yours to me to respond to
(have you forgotten?)
VINEETO: No.
RESPONDENT: Ill get to that sometime. Because I want to.

You and your partner in Terrible-ness are so welcome here on this list you know
that dont you!
VINEETO: I simply respond to those who write to me.
RESPONDENT: Just that some people are shy about showing it!
VINEETO: Not so shy. I received some very clear messages, and some oblique ones.
RESPONDENT: I am so glad that you are still here.
VINEETO: I am looking forward to your considered response.
PS: Here is an outcome of logical imagination, called thinking, for your entertain
ment:
[quote]: A herd of wild animals can move only as fast as the slowest animal. Whe
n the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are ki
lled first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the
general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killi
ng off of the weakest members.
In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest br
ain cells.
Excessive intake of alcohol, we all know, kills brain cells ... but naturally it
attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consump
tion of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and mo
re efficient machine.
Thats why you always feel smarter after a few beers.
Continued on the Actual Freedom Trust Mailing List, No 12

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===
=====
c-corr09.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence to Mailing List C

Correspondent No. 9

Topics covered
Human Condition, sincerity, spite, ego, wanting help, doing it by yourself

10.12.1998
VINEETO: Hi,
RESPONDENT: Its very interesting. These guys No. 1 and No. 10 really hate you! Hu
man condition or what?
VINEETO: Yes, the Human condition is interesting. We are very, very good in watc
hing and observing it in other people. We are not so good in observing or watchi
ng it in ourselves. Its like learning to twist ones head around and apply everythi
ng that one sees in others to oneself, it takes a bit of training.
But thats how I have learned about the Human Condition. Whenever I watch anything
in others that would evoke some kind of emotional reaction in me, be it spite,
hate, jealousy, comparison, inferiority, superiority, pity, anger, annoyance or
anything else, I would turn my attention around and look at me. The Human Condit
ion applies to everyone, including oneself. It is the software of instincts and
social programming we are equipped with. It is delete-able.

11.12.1998
RESPONDENT: Ha, ha, ha ...
If you are noticed my real intentions in my previous post, you are actually wort
h of anybodys respect. My previous post was full of shit. Pure egoistic exercise.
Sorry but how can I resist the opportunity to be a great, wise one from time to
time.
If my intentions were totally honest that post would be for your eyes only, not
for the mailing list crowd.
VINEETO: I like your sincerity about yourself. It is a good start to take stock,
and see what you want to change in you, isnt it?
RESPONDENT: Still I expected an answer from you, but I am very much surprised wi
th your reply. I expected something like Go to hell or one sincere and juicy Fuck y
ou asshole...
VINEETO: What you call a sincere and juicy fuck you, I call spite. This re-labelli
ng with the new-age language is really designed to confuse everyone.
RESPONDENT: ...and I expected it directly to my e-mail address, but what we have
here: a very kind intelligent and loving person or a person lost in the sea of
his own thoughts. So much lost that he isnt able to see a simple provocation when
is there!

VINEETO: Whats the point of answering a provocation with a fuck you, as you suggest
. It was a good question of yours, after all. Provocations dont have any effect o
n Peter or me and we had a great deal of provocation in this business of trying
to tickle people into being happy and harmless.
RESPONDENT: My ego is 100 tons weight. I want to make it perfect cause it hurts,
man. It hurts very much! So sorry, man. Most things you said in your reply make
sense. Im honest now. The exercise is over now. Why should I lie to you. I will
probably never see you. You probably know very well that everybody has a very un
ique and very complex personality, and if I want to know something about your pe
rsonality, your ego, it is only to forget at least for few minutes my own monste
r.
VINEETO: Part of those 100 ton-ego is also that you beat yourself up for it. It
is of no use. Much better, to see your actions, what you said, done or thought,
and do it better next time.
The trouble with the ego is that you can never make it perfect. You can only dis
mantle it bit by bit and eliminate everything it consists of. And not only the e
go, but the soul, the emotions and instinctual passions as well. Then you are as
perfect as the rest of the universe. This is exactly what we are discussing on
this list now to live ones life happy and harmless, perfect and pure.
RESPONDENT: As far as Osho is concerned I dont know. I really dont know. As I said
some few week ago, I have never seen the man. I read a few of Oshos books and th
ats all. I read every one of Carlos Castanedas books three times, but on the Casta
neda related mailing list I met only close-minded people.
From my life experience I learned only one important thing: Everything is totall
y uncertain and everything happens always opposite from my expectations. I want
to be simple. I want to simply love the woman. But which woman, man! Every woman
who loved me had so many problems (not with me) inside her head that sooner or
later love became only a habit, something on the last place on the lifes list of
priorities. And Im full of shit. So how can somebody expect from me or anybody to
take care of their shit. Of course, I want to help if I can, but in my life I n
ever met a single person which REALLY wants to admit that I need help. Everybody j
ust says: I need money, I need love, I need compassion, I need sex, I need drink,
I need drugs, I need this, I need that ...
VINEETO: The great thing is, that you are the only person who can help yourself.
Thats what makes everything so easy. Once you understand something in you, once
you find a piece of shit in you, as you say, you can clean it up bit by bit. And a
cleaned up you will then be good company, good fun to be with...
RESPONDENT: If you are that person, if you said I NEED HELP and some Richard was t
here for you, what to say, you are very lucky, and I honestly salute you and wis
h you all the best in your life. I wish you all the best in your fight for truth
or whatever you call it ...
VINEETO: As far as I am concerned I can only say, I did it myself. Yes, Richard
shared his expertise and taught us the method, but that is now available for eve
rybody, here on the net. But I had to do it myself, I had to clean myself up. It
was sometimes scary and sometimes arduous, but it has been, and still is, such
a thrilling and rewarding adventure ... and it has made me happy and harmless. I
t is not a fight for truth, it is telling our story and saying that everybody who
wants to can do it.
It is a fact that peace and harmony is possible on earth.
Good fun to talk to you.

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===
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c-corr05.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 5

Topics covered
Love and divine love, all love needs recipient, love covers fear, intimacy, inst
incts* self , description of PCE, stripping beliefs and emotions, movie Truman Sho
w, life without burden of self, delight, enlightenment, guided by feelings / facts
, feelings, actual freedom works * malice and sorrow, innocence, freedom to be u
n-insultable, harmless

17.11.1998
VINEETO: Hi,
RESPONDENT No 18: But such a glance is precisely my salvation, that is, if it is
followed by acceptance, if it is followed by love. It is the only thing that ca
n liberate me from my self-built prison walls.
VINEETO: Well, I would say, from my experience and from common sense, that love
is not going to liberating. It only makes one more dependant of others and confu
sed as to what you are or want to do.
RESPONDENT: I think maybe the interpretation you are using for love is the somewha
t limiting and most often attributed meaning of the word. Yet if you consider th
at love in its purest sense refers to unconditional love therefore it is really a
state of mind and perception which is totally independent of others then love is
really an answer. I am not dependent of others to have an attitude of love it i
s irrelevant if it is reciprocated and it does not need an object to be its reci

pient. It is not applicable to someone or something and not to others therefore

in its purest sense, Love is totally liberating...
VINEETO: I am delighted to receive such a sincere and interested response for my
letter to No 18.
Yes, you are right, in this response to her poem I used the word love in the usual
context of love between two or more people, born out of need and dependency, cr
eating yet more suffering with its inevitable attributes of frustration, resentm
ent, jealousy, possessiveness, disappointment and compromising. For definitions s
ake I would like to call it love with small l.
The love you describe, seemingly out of experience, I would call Divine Love or L
ove with capital L. This Love has been praised since millennia in East and West as
the highest and single solution to all human problems but it has one major flaw
it does not work. It has failed to transform humanity into a peaceful society, i
nto harmonious families, into friendly countries. And nobody has ever considered
that Love is not the solution, but part of the problem.
When I ask myself, How am I in relation to other people?, then this problem become
s obvious. In love, there is a recipient. You wrote:
RESPONDENT: ... and it does not need an object to be its recipient.
VINEETO: I dont agree with you. When there is no recipient, there is no love and
there is no lover. To be filled with Divine Love is a great experience and one t
hat sets one apart from, and above, ordinary human beings who experience love as
a need. With Divine Love there is no equity possible between two human beings t
he Master needs disciples to be a Master, and the one experiencing Love needs pe
ople appreciating his Love. It cannot be experienced without the recipient.
When for the first time I broke through the veil of beliefs and emotions and exp
erienced the world in its magical and magnificent actuality, I also saw the man
I am living with for the first time as he is an ordinary, actual, deliciously al
ive human being. The intimacy of this recognition hit me like a jackhammer. I re
alised that in normal life I was walking around in a cloud of self-perpetuating em
otions and imaginations, and within this cloud it is impossible to meet another
human being in equity and unrestricted intimacy. After my peak-experience, where
I saw the world as perfect as it is and the other without emotional bonds, inve
stments and self-reference, I was intrigued and obsessed I wanted this kind of r
elating and perfection 24 hours a day. A delightful free interaction with anothe
r human being is so fulfilling, so delicious, so innocent and free that it leave
s both love and Love for dead.
RESPONDENT: Also, the word or feeling of fear cannot be used in conjunction with
love because fear is actually the antithesis of love ... Therefore if I feel fe
ar, I cannot be in a state of love One negates the other!
VINEETO: Yes, I agree. Love is used as the antidote to fear. With sufficient lov
e one feels no fear. I experienced fear being transformed from the tension in th
e stomach into a feeling of relief and warmth and then a heat rising into the he
art area until it filled my whole chest, providing me with this new identity the
one who feels love continuously. Although it was a very seductive experience, I c
ould not forget the intimacy I had during my peak-experiences. Intimacy was impo
ssible in this state of Love. My relating then was tinted by this filled to the t
op-being that needed to pour her wisdom and love into someone, embracing all of hum
anity in a mad state of pitying compassion. Fortunately my common sense and my i
ntent for a pure and actual freedom helped me to overcome this delusive calentur
e.

Richard: Actual intimacy being here does not come from love, for love stems from
separation. The illusion of intimacy that love produces is only a poor imitatio
n of this direct experience of the actual. To be actually intimate is to be with
out separation ... and therefore free from the need for love with its ever un-fi
lled promise of Peace-On-Earth. Richards Journal, Introduction
As humans, we are born with the instinct to survive, consisting of fear, aggress
ion, nurture and desire. It takes deep investigation and courage to dismantle fe
ar and its remedy love for what it is the instinct of the self to survive. So, you s
ee, out of my peak-experience my approach has been to eliminate this instinctual
fear whenever it surfaced, thus digging deeper and deeper into the labyrinth of
self and being, eventually eradicating the very reasons for fear. Every time fear i
s recognized it loses its grip over me, becoming weaker and weaker, dissolving l
ike a fog, leaving me unrestricted and free to experience life again as the cris
p, clear, delicious and intimate adventure that it actually is. And with fear go
ne, who needs the self-enhancing feeling of love or Divine Love, which is yet anot
her feeling preventing actual intimacy from happening.
Now I can give everyone I meet, and spend time with, my 100% undivided attention
, being here with them for as long as the meeting lasts. There is neither an exp
ectation nor an investment, neither a need to give nor to receive, but simply the jo
y in meeting another human being. No love or Love can offer such freedom and del
ight.

30.11.1998
VINEETO: Good that you ask about the self. It has always been an elusive issue a
nd everybody has their own particular version of understanding it.

RESPONDENT: It seems to me that most of your ideas were based on your own projec
tions/expectations rather than on the ideas set forth by Osho My understanding o
f his words was more along the lines of understanding that the search was for whe
re is this self? And given enough introspection trying to find where this self was o
e comes to the conclusion that there is no self (have you been able to localise
this self through your indoctrination into Peter/Richards way of looking at life?
If so, where does it end and the other begin?
VINEETO: Yes, I have been able to localize this self many times, both in experie
ncing times without the self in operation and from observing the details of its co
mponents operating in me. First I will give you the dictionary definition and th
en tell you about my discoveries.
self Any of various conflicting personalities conceived of as coexisting within
a single person. A persons or things individuality or essence at a particular time
or in a particular aspect or relation; a persons nature, character, physical con
stitution or appearance, considered as different at different times. A person lo
ved as oneself. Personal identity, ego; a person as the object of introspection
or reflexive action. Oxford Dictionary

As I see it, human beings have a rudimentary sense of self (as do other primates
with larger brains) which is expanded by our ability to think, reflect and comm
unicate with others. The combination of both results in an individual self, our s
ocial identity, underpinned by our instinctually driven animal-self, the innate i
nstincts of fear, aggression, nurture and desire. The self is very real, especia
lly when interacting with other people and it usually becomes apparent through o
ur emotional reactions to people and situations. It consists both of who we think
we are, usually called ego and who we feel we are, usually called soul. (See The Ac
l Freedom Trust Library)

Once I understood that the self includes beliefs, emotions and instinctual passion
s, it was much easier to get a handle on it. Still, in the beginning it has been
very scary to investigate emotions and beliefs, and the ground under my feet se
emed to disappear many times. To explain to you how I came to understand self in i
ts complexity I will post you the description of my first peak-experience in our
journal, where I left the realm of the self for several hours and experienced the
world without its distorting layer of emotions, beliefs and instinctual passion
s.
[Vineeto]: Finally, a minor car-accident shocked my spinning mind to a halt. It w
as followed by a peak-experience on the same evening that shed some light on my
dilemma. Having smoked some marijuana I wandered off into the vast spaces of my
imagination, exploring the psychic world, as I tried to make sense of the diametri
cally opposed options that had presented themselves in my life. I seemed to perc
eive my questions in a wider context and had intense sensations about pains and
processes in different parts of my body. Watching the people around me I had a d
eeper understanding of their behaviour and how they related to each other. I cou
ld even see the energy-lines between the people relating to each other. Each prese
nted a protective shield of a particular personal image, and this image would act
and operate, relating to the others while the actual, fearful and aggressive per
son remained hidden.
At the same time that I was watching this I was distinctly aware of my thinking
and my journeying in this magical inner world. At one stage I even experienced wha
t it is to be mad. I understood the temptation of staying forever in an easy, il
lusory world of psychedelic wonders, where the mad person is the magician in his
own world enjoying the power and safety of his dream. But anybody who dares to
question this dream has to be considered a deadly enemy. However, I was always a
ware that I had the choice to stay in this imaginary world or not.
When I tried to tell Peter about my experiences and insights his simple response
gave me quite a shock. But all this is just inside your mind, it is simply your
own interpretation, it may appear to be real, but it is not actual. Yes, that was
true. I could easily see that I was inside the mind, roaming about in the differe
nt chambers of my assembled beliefs-systems, trying to find the one that was righ
t and true while in fact, I was just having a little grander and unusually complex
perception of this huge labyrinth of thoughts and feelings! I could see more of
my ideas or concepts and other peoples ideas, but they were simply ideas. None of
them had any relevance to the actuality of the physical world!
In seeing the fact, everything stood still and the whole construct of beliefs su
ddenly collapsed. Then, for the first time in all my years of the spiritual sear
ch, I experienced several hours outside of the psychic world. Being outside, I cou
ld see that this world is a huge, all-encompassing construct, created and held in
place by the dreams, beliefs, bonds, power-battles, emotions and different spiri
tual ideas of all of humanity. Everyone is part of it, weaving and reproducing b
its of this psychic carpet.
The more people believe in one particular version the more that version becomes r
eal or true. Intuitive or psychic people are simply a little better acquainted with t
he rules and occurrences of this other-world. It is never actual though, because i
t relies on constant re-creation through imagination and belief. The moment peop
le cease to believe in a particular religion, idea or value, that very concept e
ventually disappears from the earth. Actual, on the contrary, is what is already
here without anybody applying a feeling, an interpretation, a belief or any oth
er psychic effort. It is simply here, visual, tangible, audible and tasteable.
That night I had stuck my head beyond the blanket of beliefs including good and
bad, right and wrong, love and evil. In the first moments, with the psychic world

disappearing, this new place was stark, black, scary, a big hole and a bottomles
s abyss. Suddenly the ground under my feet wavered as the very existence of beli
efs ceased. For a while I was lost, frightened and bewildered.
After a minute or two that appeared to contain an eternity of complex understand
ing, Peter said to me, Hello, how are you? Good that you are here! Here obviously me
ant that there existed a place outside the belief-systems! I turned round, out o
f my shock and bewilderment, into the actual world, and saw that I was simply si
tting on the couch with Peter. Here was someone sitting next to me, another huma
n being, not particularly a man, lover or boyfriend. Just a human being, smiling
and pleased to meet me, eager to explore with me the next event in life. He is
interested. And I am interested. Who is this person? What will happen next? What
will he say next? What will we do next?
It is exciting, alive, right here and a great pleasure!
The pure and immediate adventure of experiencing this moment of being alive was
so utterly superior to everything I had come across in the name of meditation, b
liss or satori that it spoke for itself.
Being in the actual world, everything is simply obvious, needs no explanation or
theory, and contains no emotional memories of any past struggle or fear. There
is nothing that blurs or edits the experience of the world around me, which is b
oth wondrous and delightful. Freedom is living each moment as it happens, withou
t any objection. It is not the end-product of years of building up a structured
belief-system; it is the opposite destruction of everything that lies between me
and the experience of the actual world. Freedom is simply what is left after I
rid myself of every layer of the emotional and instinctual self, which is the only
obstruction to my direct experience of the universe.
The next morning, when the effects of the drug had long faded, the understanding
of the night before was still vividly present. I clearly remember walking aroun
d a crowded out-door market, looking at all the different stalls with people off
ering their products together with their particular belief-systems, as they trie
d to convince the customers of the reality of their particular version of truth. T
here were all kinds of proposals to find truth or meaning, whether religious, spir
itual or secular.
Feral feathers and karmic wheels, goddesses and herbs, ways of natural living an
d an impressive array of spiritual bookstalls, offering a hundred different solu
tions to life. Colourful Turks were selling their local hot coffee and delicious
cakes; a black boy was playing romantic songs on his guitar, selling them by th
e hour. He was successful people bought his dreams, his love songs! A woman in p
urple dyed feral clothes was selling self-made dream-catchers, talismans and oth
er symbols of her particular conviction.
There were traders of organic vegetables, Indian farmers and food-vans with a wi
de variety of exotic meals all served with the conviction of their producer: hea
lthy or hearty, plain or spicy, Italian, Thai or Indian, home-made or magically
healing. Hippies from the hills sold their produce along with their dreamy, chao
tic life-style; drumming ferals with uncombed tasselled hair presented their lif
e as the most juicy and happy of all. Ecologists proclaimed that only purely nat
ive rainforest trees should be planted to save the environment. Everyone was utt
erly convinced of what they were offering, complete with their corresponding out
fit, make-up, special language and music. I was quite taken aback by the enormity
of what I saw. Being outside of all those beliefs made me see what they consiste
d of merely ideas, thoughts, constructs, dreams and hopes; nothing was factual a
bout any of them. A Bit of Vineeto
From then on, naturally I tried to have this pure consciousness experience more

often and then I would take information back from that realm of clarity. From such
a view outside of the self it was relatively easy to make out what it consists of,
an entity of mainly fear-based beliefs, preventing my direct experience of the w
orld-as-it-is. I decided that I wanted to get rid of this self in its entirety, so
I would take a particular belief that I wanted to examine and view it in its co
mplete structure. It has been a fascinating journey of one discovery after the o
ther! Every single issue that I encountered and thoroughly examined ended up bei
ng exposed as yet another product of the self, this lost, lonely, frightened and v
ery cunning entity in me that wants to stay alive and kicking, selfish, self-cen
tred and self-related. With every dismantled belief or recognized emotion-relate
d conviction my self became weaker and more transparent allowing me to experience
the actual world again and again and again.
Now, stripped of most beliefs and their inherent emotions the self is not very pow
erful anymore. Once in a while fear rears its head, reminding me of the last bit
s of self, resisting to give up their control-function. But the changes in my life
are already so significantly for the better, and as I am fully in my senses mos
t of the time, my experience of people, things and events is fresh, sparkling, a
ctual, magical and delicious. There is no question as to the inevitable death of
this alien entity. It will happen in one of these days...
The film The Truman Show depicts the making of and living in a belief-structure bl
atantly obvious. The hero grows up in his surroundings, designed to film and bro
adcast his daily life around the clock, and he has work, friends, wife etc. Then
somebody comes along and plants the first doubt into his head. He examines his
situation at close hand, finds more and more strange inconsistencies, plans to e
scape and is finally able to leave the whole constructed universe he steps outside
his known belief-structure and enters the unknown, a world which is neither pro
tected nor planned nor restricted by ready-made beliefs...
RESPONDENT: Have you been able to localize this self through your indoctrination
into Peter/Richards way of looking at life? If so, where does it end and the othe
r begin?
VINEETO: I dont know what you mean by the other. Once I am outside of the self, the
re is no other, just this body and brain functioning perfectly well and experienci
ng the world around me intimately, sensuously, fully alive and in appreciation o
f my surroundings. While I am writing to you, Peter is clicking away on his keyb
oard, the computer is humming quietly, the night still and magical with the full
-moon high in the sky. My fingers find their way from typing letters to making w
ords, my body still tingling from sex.
Life is wonderfully easy without the burden of the self. It was never the body or
the senses or the brain that were the culprit, it has always been the self that co
rrupts both thoughts and senses. This self is responsible for all the misery on th
e planet, for all the wars, tortures, murders, rapes, poverty, greed, corruption
and hypocrisy. By dismantling and extinguishing it bit by bit I am able to live
here, now, in this actual physical and sensually experience-able world. I dont n
eed to escape into a fantasy-place where I imagine that the self does not exist. I
came to see the fantasy-world of enlightenment as a big, big fairy-land and qui
te some people have been deluded into it, although rarely anybody succeeds in st
aying permanently deluded. A Buddhist pundit calculated that 0.0001% of seekers
ever reach their ultimate goal. But in the end enlightenment is only an Altered
State of Consciousness, a construct of passionate imagination and a delusion of
grandeur.
I did experience this enlightened Self myself it is called having a Satori, I gues
s and can observe it in detail from an outsiders standpoint seeing the grand beli
ef and the overwhelming emotions of wisdom and Divine Compassion and I know the qu
alitative difference when there is no self at all in operation. All Enlightened

Ones still have an identity; it is called I am God or I am one with God. It is never
theless an identity, very grand and holy, universal in its feeling but still with
one at its core who claims to be one with the Divine. The Enlightened Ones loose t
heir ego but safely keep their soul, their identity merely shifts from the head
to the heart, leaving all the animal-instincts unquestioned.
RESPONDENT: Also, Id like to comment that having been a Sannyasin for some 18 yea
rs in no way have I ever stopped thinking for myself and blindly accepted all just
because Osho said it my understanding has always been to take whats said and the
n let my discernment, my inner feeling to guide me if it resonates within there
is truth if it doesnt it is discard-able and I never heard Osho tell me to do oth
erwise ... as a matter of fact much of what he said was often contradictory purp
osefully yet that never denied the truth contained in what was said Could it be
that maybe, just maybe ... you missed the point?
VINEETO: According to you I missed the point I can understand that. You let your
self be guided by inner feelings and reach to an inner world that is made out of
feelings. If you look around, it is feelings and passions that cause religious
wars; people kill for their god, for their Master, for their belief. We were rea
dy to do so on the Ranch. I know what you are hinting at, I have believed and ex
perimented with it myself with all the intent and devotion in search for enlight
enment. I know now that it failed because it did not make me a better human bein
g. I retreated into meditation, into the inner world, but I was still as angry, sa
d, vindictive, jealous, depressed and fearful as before, maybe more sophisticate
d, maybe more controlled. Still, anybody could set me off at times, merely drivi
ng a car was often enough to be irritated, disturbed, annoyed or pissed off..
When I came across the possibility that there may be another solution I was read
y to investigate it thoroughly. Actual Freedom is radical and iconoclastic, I no
w question everything I have ever thought and felt I was, but it has two advanta
ges it makes sense and it works. It is based on facts rather than feelings and f
antasies, and focuses on silly and sensible rather than depending on morals and et
hics that have failed to bring peace since millennia.
RESPONDENT: Does that give you the right or the basis for claiming that a way that
wasnt for you is not for others and because you didnt fit in it the shoe is not a
shoe?
VINEETO: I am not claiming anything for others; it is everybodys choice as to how
they live their own lives. I am only proposing another option for anybody who m
ight be similarly discontented with the outcome of their long and intensive sear
ch as I had been. You are free to stop investigating any time, no demands or exp
ectations attached on my side. But I am a rather practical woman and I like thin
gs that work! I like a car that drives, a computer that functions quickly and sm
oothly and a job that is fun. And I appreciate immensely a method that cleans me
up irrevocably and that makes me happy and harmless.
RESPONDENT: I especially refer to your mincing of words as it refers to Love and
your denial of it ... just semantics youre obviously hung up on the word love yet
the feeling it evokes within in the most inner being that warmth and relationshi
p and closeness you might feel when say, holding your newborn child for the firs
t time can you deny there is something there? Or are you saying that under those
circumstances you have no feelings evoked? If you do feel something ... guess w
hat ... youre feeling love ... the fact you dont want to call it love will not neg
ate it ...
Peter: The three ways a person can experience the world are: 1: cerebral (though
ts); 2: sensate (senses); 3. affective (feelings). The arising of instinctuallysourced feelings within the body automatically produces a hormonal chemical resp
onse in the body, which can lead to the false assumption that they are actual. G

iven that the base feelings are malice and sorrow (resentment, anger, revenge, j
ealousy, hate, etc. and sadness, depression, melancholy, loneliness, etc.) we de
sperately seek relief in the good feelings (love, trust, compassion, togetherness,
friendship, etc.). When the good feelings fade or disappear as they inevitably do
after the disappointments of life, some people resort to the imaginary world of
Divine Love, Gods and Goddesses to escape from or transcend the bad feelings. T
o live life as a feeling being is to be forever tossed on a raging sea, hoping for
an abatement to the storm. Finally, after a particularly fierce storm, one ties
up in port to sit life out in safety or putters around in the shallows, so as n
ot to face another storm again. We are but victims of our impassioned feelings b
ut they can be eliminated. Feelings are most commonly expressed as emotion-backe
d thoughts and as such we can free ourselves of their grip upon us. Actual Freed
om Trust Library
RESPONDENT: The same applies to your use of the word enlightenment (as opposed t
o your use of beyond-enlightenment... give me a break ... gonna tell me youre not j
ust getting caught up in semantical differences and your interpretation of words
?)
VINEETO: It may look to you that way, as just semantical
erienced the difference between enlightenment and a pure
e and have, maybe insufficiently, tried to convey it. If
subject for you and you want to investigate further, you
uction to his journal.

differences. I have exp

consciousness experienc
it is not an offensive
can read Richards introd

RESPONDENT: To end, my advice to you (if you are open to it) is ... dont get so h
ung up on words, theories ... relax a little and take things a little more light
ly and ... oh yes ... it might not hurt to be just a little less judgmental.
VINEETO: If it was only words but, you know, Actual Freedom works. I would not b
other wasting my time writing about something that does not work. But eliminatin
g beliefs and emotions and living here in the actual world makes my life happy,
peaceful, lively, fun, satisfactory and terminates the eternal search for the el
usive meaning of life. I just dont want to be miserly about this discovery, thats
all.
As for judgemental I am definitely making judgments about what is sensible and wha
t is silly for me. Also I dont subscribe to the New-Dark-Age moral of not being ju
dgmental there are too many people killed for instinctual passions and beliefs. I
am simply stating my point; I am not condemning you or anybody, thats none of my
business, thank you. In spiritual jargon, however, there is rarely a distinctio
n made between the two, thinking and judging are in general considered something
bad and therefore condemned.

6.12.1998
RESPONDENT: The following words you wrote are the base assumption underlying all
that you (Peter, Vineeto, Richard) are spewing take that one basic premise away
and what have you got?... NOTHING!
Peter: Given that the base feelings are malice and sorrow (sadness, resentment, h
ate, depression, melancholy, loneliness, etc. The Actual Freedom Trust Library
Obviously your temperament and world view fit in quite well with the idea of orig
inal sin. THAT is your biggest error.
VINEETO: Good that we are starting to discuss malice and sorrow, because underst
anding this point is essential for understanding what it is to be a human being.

Isnt it great that we have the opportunity to discuss these matters with someone
on the other side of the planet!
I dont know how you regard human beings as to their primary equipment at birth. I
know from myself and from watching others TV reports are a very good source of
information that every human being comes with a software package called the Huma
n Condition. This software is made up of natures survival instincts of fear, aggr
ession, nurture and desire. It is a fact that we are born with 2 legs and 2 arms
and also, that we are born with the basic animal instincts. Early humans would
not have survived without those primary instincts. Only now, with such giants de
velopment in technology and economy, there is no need to hunt and kill one anoth
er for food and survival, but human are still, like in ancient times, operating
according to this instinctual software. Now the time has come that we can consid
er those survival-mechanism as not only redundant but understand and eliminate t
he very cause of malice and sorrow in each of us.
When you watch small kids you will notice their behaviour sometimes being quite
angry, without a particular reason. One kid takes anothers toy, and there is scre
aming and hitting until an adult sorts out the situation. I have observed these
primary emotions within myself, being possessed by rage, jealousy, greed, desper
ation or paralysed with fear. You are right, Christians call it original sin, East
ern religions call it Karma. But scientist have found and have experienced it in m
yself that everyone equally has this software-package and as software it is also
delete-able.
In the beginning it was hard to admit all my bad emotions, but, being honest, ther
e was no chance to deny them, and after years of meditation and therapy I knew m
yself too well. I had dealt with it by blaming my bad emotions as somebody elses fau
lt who had supposedly triggered them or some bad incident that had annoyed me.
Admitting that the problem was within me was already part of the solution. There
is actually a way to investigate and eliminate beliefs, emotions and instincts,
one by one. I find this method instantaneously rewarding and much more reliable
than hoping for a mysterious redemption by something like divine grace.
What a freedom to be able to be un-insult-able, un-offend-able, without resentme
nt and completely harmless. What a joy to know that I can rely upon myself 100%,
that I wont harm anybody, that I wont kill anybody for whatever emotions or belie
fs, whatever the situation may be. On the way, one loses ones self, but then it is
only going one step further than I had set out anyway when I ventured to lose my
ego.

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===
=====
c-corr15.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 15

Topics covered
Where to start, reading, writing, intelligence, fear, how am I experiencing ...,
arguing, intent

15.12.1998
RESPONDENT: Hi Peter,
I am in. I have had enough of the lack of results I have got from either normal
life or the spiritual. What you, Vineeto, Devika and Richard have said makes a w
hole lot of sense, so I am ready to take the leap, boots and all!!!! :-)
VINEETO: You have written to Peter, but I said to him, let me reply. It is such
a joy when someone gets encouraged by our stories to try out a new way for himse
lf. Also you understood that it is only you who can do something about yourself,
and that is a very good starting position!
And yes, it is a boots and all adventure, it is about turning ones head inside out
and upside down, it is re-wiring ones brain. Slowly, slowly you come to question
everything you have ever learned and on the way you are finding out the extent o
f what you have been taught! So many ideas and truths that I had taken for granted
, some which have come with the mothers milk, or that I learned in school or from
other reliable authorities, would, with relentless investigation, turn out to be
mere assumptions, beliefs, opinions and not at all facts. So you can brace yours
elf for many a surprise and, as I say, the carpet under your feet will disappear
many times.
RESPONDENT: Where do I start???
VINEETO: Yes, where to start! How Peter started, after he understood that Richar
d had something valuable to offer he went there, for six month, every day, and s
at in Richards lounge-room to absorb this so strange, unheard-of, and bewildering
way to see and experience the world. He learned from the spoken word, but also
he was reading Richards journal at least a dozen times. There is definitely no tr
ansmission happening, no energy-work involved. It is possible to understand the
flavour of this actual world by words, and there are about a million of words av
ailable now. Alan has found Richard via search on the internet and digs himself
out of the Human Condition by reading every bit of Richards writing and correspon
dence over and over again, as well as Peters journal and our conversations here o
n the mailing-list. Personal presence is not required at all a remarkable and vi
tal difference to the spiritual transmission of Wisdom and the Masters Energy.
I spent a lot of time with Peter and had some resistance at the start being a de
vout sannyasin then but was exposed to Peters stories and discoveries day by day.

Some of the bewildering news would stick, some of it would make sense and then
the first successes became apparent from investigating into my own psyche, my ow
n behaviour, my own emotions...
You cant sit in our lounge room listening to stories, but you can read them. Read
and read and re-read. Until something in your brain starts shifting, clicking,
doubting the old, understanding the actual, and you will start seeing and sometime
s experiencing what Richard means by actually being here. Whenever your head start
s fuming, remember that you are tackling 20 odd years of conditioning, of lookin
g at things from a certain background, packed with feelings, intuition and belie
fs. And not only are you investigating your own behaviour and conditioning, but
you are dismantling the whole of the Human Condition, which means, everything th
at everybody has believed up to now, Ancient Wisdom that has been passed down th
e ages. It is not a small thing we are doing. It is a true pioneers job, the adve
nture of a lifetime being one of the first to discover virgin territory, an Actu
al Freedom from the Human Condition.
The other thing that one can do is write. We have an Actual Freedom mailing-list
, as you probably know, and particularly Alan, Peter and I have written quite a
few letters about our adventures in moving on the path to the actual world and l
eaving the real world of malice and sorrow behind, including all the various fears
, doubts, qualms and headaches that are par for the course in this adventure. Yo
u might find something interesting in the archives and may feel inclined to shar
e about your particular questions and investigations. How to get on? Click on th
e subscribe to mailing-list button on our web-site home page and you will have a r
eply back within a few hours.
The first thing I had to do after 17 years of spiritual conditioning was to swit
ch my brain back on. I delighted in using my intelligence again, started doubtin
g the old, used scrutiny and discrimination to slowly question everything that I
had taken for granted wisdom. What a gullible person I had been, you could have
told me any fairy-story of astrology and invisible energies, channelling and ch
akras, and I was ready to believe it all! Investigating and using my intelligenc
e again, I felt like being back in High school or University, where intellect an
d intelligence are being trained, where it was o.k. to think, where I learned ab
out facts though even many of those so-called facts later turned out to be mere
assumptions, disguised as scientific theories. I re-discovered the joy of discri
mination, of relying on myself instead of authority, of using silly and sensible ins
tead of moralistic appraisals.
And then I encountered fear fear to leave the familiar fold my peers, my sannyas
in friends and acquaintances, the womens club with their particular beliefs and f
eelings, family-sentiments, love-dreams. Most of all, I was fearful to question
the authority of Osho, of God, of the divine plan behind it all, and the belief
in authority as such. Suddenly I had to realize and acknowledge that I am alone,
standing on my own two feet, nobody is there who knows the truth and no all-carin
g and all-powerful Existence is taking care of me. Wow, what a bummer and then, what
a freedom. I can actually do what I want, think sensibly, take care of myself w
ithout the concept of any Almighty God and enjoy life, even if everybody else ch
ooses to be miserable for a million and one reason.
If you think that the choice where to start with un-conditioning yourself is too
big, you can start with something simple like the weather. Weather is something
so obviously outside of our control, and yet almost everyone I meet complains a
bout the weather. What a delight, when it is blue sky with vivid colours, what a
delight when it rains, wetting the ground, tinkering raindrops on the roof. If
the weather annoys you, there is something to look at, maybe it is some emotion
surfacing about something completely unrelated to the weather or some conviction
being tickled that makes you wobble.

How am I experiencing this moment of being alive?

This is the core sentence and the method to all of Richards discoveries, the key
to the actual world. With this sentence you can take apart the whole of your psy
che, bit by bit, digging deeper and deeper into your unconscious. Whenever you a
re not happy now, there is something to look at. And every moment not happy, or
not investigating into the reasons of unhappiness, is a wasted moment. There is
only now, only this moment; yesterday is but a memory, tomorrow but a fantasy. I
f I waste this moment of being alive, because I am complaining about something,
or I am worried or half-hearted, it is a wasted moment of my life. It is so wond
erfully simple, so obvious and yet, with all our conditioning, beliefs, emotions
and instincts in action, it is very difficult to understand and actualize. But
now, with this method, you can examine and investigate everything that keeps you
from being happy now.
Richard has written a whole chapter about this vital issue of this moment being a
live, you find it on his web-site: This moment of being alive. This method brings
you back into this moment of being alive, there is no other moment to be experi
enced. If you dont experience this moment as perfect, then this is the moment to
apply change. It sounds so simple, but hardly anybody ever does it.
RESPONDENT: [quote]: Argument implies a desire to win, strengthens egotism, and
ties us to the belief in the idea of a self, a being, a living being, and a perso
n... Hui Neng
VINEETO: The spiritual people all tell you not to argue, which also means, dont q
uestion, dont doubt, dont find out for yourself, believe them, in short dont think.
I like discussion. I am glad there is a discussion happening on the list, people
are talking about their beliefs, in whatever way, it is coming out in the open.
So I have nothing against argument, or the desire to win. On the path to freedo
m one has got to use every tool one can find, be it desire to win, bloody-minded
ness, rebellion, joy of discovery, or whatever incentive to move on you find in
yourself.
Richard talks about pure intent and I have found that a very useful measure. Pure
intent is keeping my goal in sight, cleaning myself up not for power or personal
gain but for my own and everybody elses happiness, my own peace-on-earth and the
possible peace of everybody else.
Intent is born out of the peak-experience and ones memory of it. It will be helpf
ul to remember and maybe write down ones last or most outstanding peak-experience
in order to have a constant reference point as to what one wants to achieve...
Well, I think thats enough for you to start off with. I am eager to hear how you
are going.
With your permission I would like to forward this letter to the Actual Freedom m
ailing-list, because I think it is of interest and use for everybody. Talk to yo
u there.
It has been a pleasure to talk to you.
Continued on Actual Freedom Mailing List No 6

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence

Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===
=====
c-corr01.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 1

Topics covered
Love and divine love, ideals, intimacy * beliefs, spiritual beliefs, reading Ric
hards writings, fear, spiritual conditioning, how am I experiencing ... * egghead
s * humour, Cinderella joke * un-offendable * German conditioning, happy and har
mless, Y zero K joke

11.12.1998
VINEETO: I like what you wrote on love. It makes things more clear with this mul
ti-facetted word.
Just a few comments:
RESPONDENT: Does your heart ache and break when theyre sad? Then its LOVE!
Do you cry for their pain, even when theyre strong? Then its LOVE!
VINEETO: This definition of love makes it very clear that love is just another w
ord for suffering together. It is pretty obvious, this is what love is, but I cann
ot see anything attractive in it, nothing that would add any solution to the pro
blems in the world.
RESPONDENT: Do their eyes see your true heart, and touch your soul so deeply it
hurts? Then its LOVE!
But do you stay because a blinding, incomprehensible mix of pain and elation pul
ls you close and holds you? Then its LOVE!
VINEETO: Here are two more definitions of love, where love is associated with pa
in. Yes, thats what it is, love is only possible and needed if there is also pain
and suffering. Otherwise, why one would need love, why not just share a good ti

me and enjoy each others company?

RESPONDENT: Do you pardon their faults because you care about them? Then its not
only LOVE, its also FRIENDSHIP!!
VINEETO: Well, on this one I
cept your faults, you accept
er, all love has its limits,
t to forget and forgive is
is very very lasting.

dont agree, I think it is called a lousy bargain: I ac

mine. And you can never pardon someones faults forev
when those friends get on your nerves. The agreemen
never possible to uphold, because our emotional memory

Much better to sort out why other peoples faults should get on my nerves, find the
reason in me and eliminate the cause. Then I dont need love because I am not offe
nded by faults in others.
RESPONDENT: Do you accept their faults because theyre a part of who they are? The
n its LOVE!
VINEETO: What a lousy gift, first to see faults in others and then to re-affirm so
meone in their faults by acceptance.
And why not change yourself so you wont be harassed by others faults, and then you d
ont have to change them? Then you dont have to love them for their faults either. Yo
u can have intimacy with others as they are, unconcerned about their faults, which
is, after all, only their particular expression of the Human Condition which is
inherent in all of us.
RESPONDENT: Youve got to dance like nobodys watching, and love like its never going
to hurt.
VINEETO: Yes, I too remember when I was dancing like nobodys watching, and probably
nobody was watching anyway. It was simply good fun.
But love like its never going to hurt implies that it is going to hurt and you know
it, you just pretend it wont for a while. The backside of love is hurt, as you s
aid in your statements above, it is a double-sided coin. Pretending or imagining
that it is otherwise wont change the fact.
Why is it that the idea and the feeling of love are so important, and yet everyb
ody has been hurt through love?
I know why it was important for me love was, besides truth, the highest value that I
believed in. But then, when I found out about being here, in the actual world,
free of feelings and emotions, without love or hate, I can now be with a person
and give my 100% attention, complete care and consideration, freely without bond
s, expectation or bargain. I have experienced this alternative as vastly superio
r and more enjoyable than love, that I never wanted love back.
Intimacy between two human beings without feelings and dreams is more than I eve
r could have imagined. But this intimacy is only possible when one can give ones
elf 100% into the adventure, boots and all. Past hurts and disappointments sit t
oo ingrained in the emotional memory, either repressed or open, and cause the us
ual holding back and demonstrative independence. Only by questioning the concept o
f love itself and then eliminating the love-related emotions was I able to give
this experiment with Peter my 100% and break through to actual intimacy. This in
timacy lies beyond all hurts and caution. It has no strings attached whatsoever.
Usually we simply project dreams, hopes, fears and concepts of male-female roleplay on to the other person, thus using him/her unconsciously as a mere projecti
on screen. Removing this screen by abandoning and eliminating those emotions, fe

elings and concepts, one can meet the other as the human being he/she is, in per
fect intimacy.

11.12.1998
RESPONDENT: Why dont you just tell us how to experience this freedom that you tal
k about. How to live life in freedom 24 hours a day? You keep on talking about e
verything but you never share how we, poor ignorant sannyasins can also live in
this third alternative realm. Isnt it not the time that you once and for all share
the how to this thing you are always talking about?
VINEETO: I am glad you asked. Also you say:
RESPONDENT: A real intelligent person would not have any beliefs. He would be a s
eeker and at the same time rely on his own understanding and not believe.
VINEETO: I agree fully with your understanding that it is very good to question
all the beliefs that one has. It is the first and most important step to experie
nce the actual world, which is here all the time, only hidden under all the conc
epts, emotions and beliefs we have piled on top of it. For instance, the moon wa
s for Mr. Gurdjieff not just the piece of rock circling the earth, but the place
where all souls would go after death. How could he see the moon as the big piec
e of rock and grey sand that it factually is?
And freedom is a boots and all adventure, it is about turning ones head inside out
and upside down, it is re-wiring ones brain. Slowly, slowly you come to question
everything you have ever learned, and on the way you are finding out the extent
of what you have been taught! So many ideas and truths I had taken for granted, so
me of which have come with the mothers milk, or school-teachers, or other respecta
ble authorities, and then these ideas and truths would, with relentless investigati
on, turn out to be mere assumptions, beliefs, opinions and not at all facts. So
you can brace yourself for many a surprise and, as I say, the safe carpet under
your feet will disappear many times.
Yes, where to start! The way Peter started, after he understood that Richard had
something valuable to offer he went every day, for six month, and sat in Richar
ds lounge-room to absorb this so strange, unheard-of, and bewildering way to see
and experience the world. He learned from the spoken word, but he also read Rich
ards journal at least a dozen times. There is definitely not a transmission happe
ning, no pass on of energy. It is possible to understand the flavour of this actua
l world by words, and there are quite a lot of them available. Personal presence
is not at all required a remarkable difference to the spiritual transmission of
Wisdom.
I hung out with Peter, I had more objections and doubts at the start being a dev
out sannyasin then but as I was exposed to Peters ravings day by day, some of the
bewildering new understandings would stick, some would make sense and then the
first successes became apparent from investigating into my psyche, my behaviour,
my emotions...
To get a grip on what this actual world outside of beliefs and instincts is abou
t, you can read. Read and read and re-read. Until something in your brain will s
tart shifting, clicking, doubting the old, understanding the here, and then you wi
ll start understanding and sometimes experience for yourself what Richard means
by actual actually being here. Whenever your head starts fuming, remember that you
are tackling 40 or more years of conditioning, of believing things the way ever
yone does, of feelings, intuition and passion. And not only are you investigatin
g your own behaviour and conditioning, but also the whole of the Human Condition

, which means, everything everybody has believed up to now, the whole of Humanit
y. It is not a small thing we do. It is a true pioneers job, the adventure of a l
ifetime. One of the first to climb the Mount Everest of evolving into a new spec
ies so to speak, a species without malice and sorrow, a species of happy and har
mless human beings.
The first thing I had to do after 17 years of spiritual conditioning was to swit
ch my brain back on. I delighted in using my intelligence again, started doubtin
g the old, used scrutiny and discrimination to slowly question everything that I
had taken for granted wisdom. What a gullible person I had been, you could have
told me any fairy-story of astrology and invisible energies, channelling and ch
akras, and I was ready to believe it all! Investigating and using my intelligenc
e again, I felt like being back in High school or University, where intellect an
d intelligence are being trained, where it was o.k. to think, where I learned ab
out facts though even many of those so-called facts later turned out to be mere
assumptions, disguised as scientific theories. I re-discovered the joy of discri
mination, of relying on myself instead of authority, of using silly and sensible ins
tead of moralistic appraisals.
And then I encountered fear fear to leave the familiar fold my peers, my sannyas
in friends and acquaintances, the womens club with their particular beliefs and f
eelings, family-sentiments, love-dreams. Most of all, I was fearful to question
the authority of Osho, of God, of the divine plan behind it all, and the belief
in authority as such. Suddenly I had to realize and acknowledge that I am alone,
standing on my own two feet, nobody is there who knows the truth and no all-carin
g and all-powerful Existence is taking care of me. Wow, what a bummer and then, what
a freedom. I can actually do what I want, think sensibly, take care of myself w
ithout the concept of any Almighty God and enjoy life, even if everybody else ch
ooses to be miserable for a million and one reason.
If you think that the choice where to start with un-conditioning yourself is too
big, you can start with something simple like the weather. Weather is something
so obviously outside of our control, and yet almost everyone I meet complains a
bout the weather. What a delight, when it is blue sky with vivid colours, what a
delight when it rains, wetting the ground, tinkering raindrops on the roof. If
the weather annoys you, there is something to look at, maybe it is some emotion
surfacing about something completely unrelated to the weather or some conviction
being tickled that makes you wobble.
How am I experiencing this moment of being alive?
This is the core sentence and the method to all of Richards discoveries, the key
to the actual world. With this sentence you can take apart the whole of your psy
che, bit by bit, digging deeper and deeper into your unconscious. Whenever you a
re not happy now, there is something to look at. And every moment not happy, or
not investigating into the reasons of unhappiness, is a wasted moment. There is
only now, only this moment; yesterday is but a memory, tomorrow but a fantasy. I
f I waste this moment of being alive, because I am complaining about something,
or I am worried or half-hearted, it is a wasted moment of my life. It is so wond
erfully simple, so obvious and yet, with all our conditioning, beliefs, emotions
and instincts in action, it is very difficult to understand and actualize. But
now, with this method, you can examine and investigate everything that keeps you
from being happy now.
Richard has written a whole chapter about this vital issue of This moment of bein
g alive. This method brings you back into this moment of being alive, there is no
other moment to be experienced. If you dont experience this moment as perfect, t
hen this is the moment to apply change. It sounds so simple, but hardly anybody
ever does it.


14.1.1999
VINEETO: Just a short note to your statement:
RESPONDENT: People are brainwashed with teachings, religions, conditionings and
lots and lots of words that do not mean anything at all (like the THREE EGGHEADS
Peter, Richard and Vineeto).
VINEETO: Yes, I agree, I am definitely an egghead in a square world, continuously sa
ying that the solution lies 180 degrees in the opposite direction to where every
body else is seeking it. But 5.8 billion people insists that their particular be
lief must be the right one, they are just not trying hard enough and they dont seem
to notice that their supposed only true solution has not eliminated the malice
and sorrow of the Human Condition.

24.1.1999
RESPONDENT to No. 8: Usually when I find people uninteresting, boring or too ser
ious (like my wife and mother) I make fun of their words or a joke. I put some ju
ice into them and that makes them laugh and become less serious. Do you call that
being vindictive?
You say that you dont find my jokes funny where I used the names of Peter and Vin
eeto. Have you forgotten? Osho used to make fun of his sannyasins and everyone u
sed to have a good laugh. Nobody was offended.
No wonder you like those two dried-up old fossils, Peter and Vineeto.
P.S.: I find that Vineeto still has a little humour left in her. I loved those t
wo pictures she sent. They were funny.
VINEETO: It is such a curious business writing to people on the internet. I was
convinced you were a woman (I knew a woman with the same name, thats why) now, su
ddenly for me suddenly you have a wife.
I have thought quite a bit about humour lately and about your statement that the
re is a little humour left in me. I might be a bit handicapped by my German upbr
inging and with English being my second language I am not good with puns. But th
ere is more to it than that.
Most jokes I cant laugh at. Most jokes are built on either the suffering of peopl
e or them being malicious. I just cant find the joke. Also, there is neither bore
dom nor any other emotional tension that needs to be healed or relieved with a jok
e. Living in delight, laughter is simply part of the day, as are interesting con
versations, thrilling investigations, juicy sex and tasty food. Humour may not b
e something you find much in my writing but then, my intent to writing something
is different. When I write here on the list, my intent is to convey something o
f the magic I experience being free of beliefs and emotions, and to describe how
I got here.
And as for boredom, I found that since I eliminated boredom in me, nobody can bo
re me anymore I can spend days of doing nothing, hanging out by myself or with P
eter and never be bored. Being alive is thrilling, sensuous, bubbly, delicious,
enjoyable, magical, sensational and then you get to do things on top of it!
But since humour is the language you seem to know best here is a fairy story tha

t I have found funny:

[quote]: Cinderella wants to go to the ball, but her wicked stepmother wont let h
er. As Cinderella sits crying in the garden, her fairy godmother appears, and pr
omises to provide Cinderella with everything she needs to go to the ball, but on
ly on two conditions.
First, you must wear a diaphragm.
Cinderella agrees. Whats the second condition?
You must be home by 2 a.m. Any later, and your diaphragm will turn into a pumpkin
.
Cinderella agrees to be home by 2 a.m. The appointed hour comes and goes, and Ci
nderella doesnt show up. Finally, at 5 a.m., Cinderella shows up, looking love-st
ruck and very, very satisfied.
Where have you been? demands the fairy godmother. Your diaphragm was supposed to tu
rn into a pumpkin three hours ago!
I met a prince, Fairy Godmother. He took care of everything.
I know of no prince with that kind of power! Tell me his name!
I cant remember, exactly ... Peter Peter, something or other ...

25.1.1999
RESPONDENT to No. 23: I was wondering why SANNYASINS were getting so worked up a
nd angry at my teasing Peter and Vineeto with some jokes and comments? They dont
seem to be bothered by it, at least I still havent heard any comment from them. W
hen I teased Vineeto by calling her egghead she responded very well. I appreciate
her for it. It seems Peter and Vineeto are more sporty then some sannyasins. I won
der if she and Peter have anything to say about the jokes?
VINEETO: So you are asking about my response to your jokes?
I am not responding to your jokes aimed at Peter and Vineeto (the ones with our
names put in) because I find it plain silly. A joke is neither a question nor an
objection, so why should I reply?
As for sporty it was one of the first things I learned when meeting Richard, that
one can become un-insult-able by investigating and removing the me who takes offen
ce. This possibility appealed very much to me from the very beginning. What an a
wful hindrance for communications it has always been for me when I would get ins
ulted by what someone said, and then I could not continue being at ease with tha
t person. And then I was the one who was suffering, feeling insulted, being rese
ntful and withdrawing into loneliness. Actual freedom for me meant that I invest
igated and in this way eliminated the cause and the root of emotions in me, and
after removing the cause they simply dont occur any more. Whatever the other says
, or does, is then his or her business only.
What a freedom to be able to be un-insult-able, un-offend-able, completely harml
ess and without resentment. What a joy to know that I can rely upon myself 100%
that I wont harm anybody, wont kill anybody for whatever passions or beliefs. I ad
mit, one loses ones self on the way but it is well worth it.

26.1.1999
RESPONDENT: I am a man, hehehe... SURPRISE!!!
I remember Osho saying that Germans have a hard time getting a joke because of wh
at happened to them during Hitlers time. He said that Germans are very intelligen
t people but somehow Hitler was able to fool all of them to believe in his stupi
d idea that Jews were the cause of all the misery and suffering in Germany.
Osho used to joke that it takes Germans a few days before they get a joke and st
art laughing ... is that true, Vineeto? hahaha.
VINEETO: What your master said about Germans and what I found out about being co
nditioned as German is a hell of a difference. Yes, I found the Hitler in me after
I realised that I would have killed for defending my master and my devotion for
him with the same passion that Germans had when they marched to conquer and save
the world. Hitler simply played on the instincts of Germans in a way that they f
ollowed him and that they were ready to die for him, for their country, for thei
r Christian belief, for their Arian race exactly as Osho played on my and everyb
odys instincts so that I was ready to kill and die for Him on the Ranch.
There is no point blaming somebody else for my misery or suffering, I am made of
the same stuff as any other human being, I am equipped with the same software o
f instincts, conditioning and sense of self. And I can do something about it. Afte
r I recognised and acknowledged the Hitler in me as well as the follower in me, it l
eft such an impact that I was determined to eradicate these aspects of the Human
Condition in me.
And I succeeded. There is not a trace of nationalistic or religious conditioning
left today. And I can see this conditioning and the underlying instinctual pass
ions operating in everybody the Human Condition with different labels, for diffe
rent reasons, but nevertheless as power and aggression, fear and willing obedien
ce. When it comes down to the animalistic instincts of fear, aggression, nurture
and desire, there is no difference between a German and a Jew, an Indian and a
Muslim, a Serb and a Rajneeshee. Everybody, without fail, is inflicted with this
disease the Human Condition.
This is what Osho omitted in his discourses.
RESPONDENT: I personally think that Humour is a good sign of Intelligence. If a
person can laugh at himself and make fun of his mistakes and shortcomings (who d
oesnt have any?) then he makes his world somehow lighter and free. Osho himself u
sed to make fun of himself (and I learned this too). There were jokes where Osho
dies and goes to heaven and sits on Gods throne, or a joke where Osho scares Sai
nt Peter in heaven. He used to say that he was going to hell because there were
more juicy and alive people there. Heaven is boring, full of saints and serious
people.
I am very happy to see that you have a sense of humour and unlike some sannyasin
s you dont seem to get offended or angry at jokes.
VINEETO: Yes, I also think that it is a sign of intelligence when one can see th
e ridiculousness of what one is doing. But most jokes point at others and are at
the expense of the shortcomings of others. It is called fun but is almost alway
s badly disguised plain malice. The impression of lighter and free comes from a te
mporary distraction from the misery all around, but jokes do nothing to actually
free you from misery. After a short time it hits back with full force.

For me, being a seeker has always been about finding out about myself, first abo
ut the ego in Sannyas and now about the whole of the Human Condition, the ego an
d the soul. Searching, for me, is about establishing peace-on-earth in me, and f
or that, the I who I think I am and the I who I feel I am has to die. Only when I am
completely demolished will I be reliably happy and harmless, all the time.
Just making fun of ones own and others shortcomings is nothing but a nice coating
over the self that wants to stay as it is and be liked by others on top of it. It
has never really appealed to me. I preferred to find a way to be free of being t
he nice girl, free of needing love, free of any dependency on other peoples opini
on about me. Then I am also free to say what is the case instead of being anxiou
s about what others would have liked me to say.
It is a wondrous and delightful freedom to be an autonomous, happy and harmless
human being. It beats every single joke in the world. Jokes if they are really g
ood jokes can only be the cherry on the cream on the cake. (I dont like icing).
PS: Here is a cherry for you
[quote]: Y zero K Problem. (Translated from Latin scroll dated 2 BC)
Dear Cassius
Are you still working on the
ng us a lot of headaches and
cope with working the wrong
orever, now we have to start

Y zero K problem? This change from BC to AD is givi

we havent much time left. I dont know how people will
way around. Having been working happily downwards f
thinking upwards.

You would think that someone would have thought of it earlier and not left it to
us to sort it all out at this last minute.
I spoke to Maximus Caesar the other evening. He was livid that Julius hadnt done
something about it when he was sorting out the calendar. He said he could see wh
y Brutus turned nasty. We called in Consultus, but he simply said that continuin
g downwards using minus BC wont work and as usual charged a fortune for doing not
hing useful. Surely we will not have to throw out all our hardware and start aga
in? Micronius will make yet another fortune out of this I suppose.
The money lenders are paranoid of course! They have been told that all usury rat
es will invert and they will have to pay their clients to take out loans. Its an
ill wind.
As for myself, I just cant see the sand in an hourglass flowing upwards.
We have heard that there are three wise men in the East who have been working on
the problem, but unfortunately they wont arrive until its all over.
I have heard that there are plans to stable all horses at midnight at the turn o
f the year as there are fears that they will stop and try to run backwards, caus
ing immense damage to chariots and possible loss of life.
Some say the world will cease to exist at the moment of transition. Anyway, we a
re still continuing to work on this blasted Y zero K problem. I will send a parc
hment to you if anything further develops.
If you have any ideas please let me know,
Plutonius

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===
=====
c-corr13.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 13

Topics covered
Sweet feeling, love, feelings, self, PCE, intimacy * mystique of sex, eliminating
fears, fun, sex-drive, moral conditioning * death , happy and harmless * time of
my life, apperception, PCE / ASC, One with the divine, feeling good / love, 180 d
egrees opposite, meditation / actual freedom, How am I experiencing ..., instinc
t of nurture * doing nothing really well * why Rajneesh disciple, authority, enl
ightenment * watcher , sub-personalities, healing the psyche / eliminating it, w
eather, beliefs, fear, persistence * sex without love, conditioning, sin, deligh
t

5.12.1998
RESPONDENT: There is one point that I dont get. How is it that the sweet feeling
in your chest that sometimes you say arises in you when you are with your husban
d always vanishes when you realize that it is right there in your chest. In my p
articular case this sweet feeling continues when the body relaxes into whatever
activity it has chosen to do even when I am aware of it. This sweet feeling seem
s to go away later and then it comes back on its own terms. It feels like we dont
have much choice at all to make it come or go. It may not be clear what I am sa
ying because it is not 100% clear how to express emotions in words.
Please make it clear in simple terms without using the word love because the very
word is confusing to me and has a tremendous baggage of the past. Thanks! It is
great that you have a happy life and feel passion for other people to be happy.
VINEETO: Thank you for your reply and question. I will try to explain as well as
I can I am still very new at this explaining and describing business, but it is

good fun.
I understand that you probably refer to love when you say sweet feeling. Yes, that s
weet feeling, whenever it occurred, vanished when I realised that it was there in
my chest.
Peter: The three ways a person can experience the world are: 1: cerebral (though
ts); 2: sensate (senses); 3. affective (feelings). The arising of instinctuallysourced feelings within the body automatically produces a hormonal chemical resp
onse in the body, which can lead to the false assumption that they are actual. G
iven that the base feelings are malice and sorrow (resentment, anger, revenge, j
ealousy, hate, etc. and sadness, depression, melancholy, loneliness, etc.) we de
sperately seek relief in the good feelings (love, trust, compassion, togetherness,
friendship, etc.). When the good feelings fade or disappear as they inevitably do
after the disappointments of life, some people resort to the imaginary world of
Divine Love, Gods and Goddesses to escape from or transcend the bad feelings. T
o live life as a feeling being is to be forever tossed on a raging sea, hoping for
an abatement to the storm. Finally, after a particularly fierce storm, one ties
up in port to sit life out in safety or putters around in the shallows, so as n
ot to face another storm again. We are but victims of our impassioned feelings b
ut they can be eliminated. Feelings are most commonly expressed as emotion-backe
d thoughts and as such we can free ourselves of their grip upon us. The Actual F
reedom Trust Library, Feeling
RESPONDENT: This sweet feeling seems to go away later and then it comes back on
its own terms. It feels like we dont have much choice at all to make it come or g
o.
VINEETO: Those feelings are constantly changing and they are part of the self. In
my peak-experience, and in moments of actual intimacy with Peter, I understood t
hat there is life beyond beliefs, emotions and feelings. You might remember for yo
urself one of those periods, when the world is seen crisp, clear, perfect, magic
al, without emotions or feelings and experienced as utterly safe. The signals of
our senses are usually filtered by the self, the psychological and psychic entity
within each of us, resulting in normal, edited sensate experience. When this filt
er is temporarily absent, as in the peak experience or some drug-induced states,
the sensate experience can be direct and unfiltered. Then the sensate-only expe
rience is extra-ordinary. One has a heightened sensory perception free of any se
nse of I or me.
These peak-experiences free from the self, and the resulting understanding that th
e self mainly consists of emotions and beliefs any emotions and any beliefs gave
me the courage and the intent to investigate into each of my beliefs and emotio
ns when they occurred. The resulting actual intimacy with Peter and also with ev
erybody I meet is far superior to the sweet, yet unreliable and dreamlike feelin
g quality I had with people before. The intimacy now is a constant experience of
actually meeting the person without any moods or expectations, offence or hope,
dependency or separation.
This is how I have described the quality of intimacy:
[Vineeto]: Now there are no dreams, no
strictions that could cloud the thrill
ad of random moments of sweet love I
are awareness each time we communicate

expectations, no emotions or any other re

of meeting another human being. Now inste
am able to give Peter my full attention and b
and so does he.

Love was then replaced by this delicious state of crisp and exquisite awareness,
where I am utterly by myself, there is no relationship between us whatsoever, a
nd the next moment is unpredictable and without continuity to any past or future
. Remembering again and again the joy of those wonder-filled moments always gave

me the necessary intent and courage to keep removing any feelings that the self k
ept producing. A Bit of Vineeto
I hope I have made this point a little bit clearer to you. I was simply tired of
all the qualities that affection in a relationship had in its tail: dependency,
jealousy, need, expectations, bargain, sorrow, pining and unreliability. I was
surprised and delighted to have found another, much more satisfying way to relat
e intimately to another human being.

8.12.1999
RESPONDENT to Peter: Honestly, I feel there is just too much effort to have sex.
I mean to make the whole atmosphere right, to seduce the woman, to put her in a
good mood, to prepare. To see the same old, same old stages of the whole game.
By the time it is right and everything seems ready I feel already tired of it an
d I would rather not do it (which of course drives the partner crazy).
VINEETO: I like your sincerity in asking. Sex is not an everyday subject to be t
alked about in public, is it? I thought I will give you some input from the fema
le side of the so-called mystique of sex.
Before I met Peter, I always thought of myself as not quite adequate in the imag
ined standard of good in bed. I felt, something was always wrong with me, and I wa
s aware of repression lurking somewhere I didnt feel free in sex. I found out lat
er that most of my peers where afflicted with the same ignorance, guilt and mora
ls about sex. Then, on top of the difficulty I already had with my normal Christia
n sexual conditioning there was the confusion about the spiritual idea of having
to transcend sex in order to reach enlightenment.
Part of my contract with Peter was to look into everything that was in the road
between us, and that included sex. I welcomed the opportunity to explore my cond
itioning with someone who was not afraid to find out all about sex. So we delved
into the core of the matter.
Peter wrote about it in his journal in the Sex chapter:
Peter: The elimination of the beliefs and taboos around sexuality and their relat
ed emotions meant that each of us had to give up all that we thought was essenti
al and set in concrete in the end. My very maleness and her very femaleness. The
results of this investigation are indeed quite interesting. We have discovered
a heightened sensual pleasure in sex. We have stripped away almost all of the em
otions, fears, blockages, hesitancies, guilt, and any withholding that occurs ar
ound sex.
Now it is simply a matter of when to comfortably fit it in to the day; we genera
lly prefer the morning, as the resulting sensations can last for hours. Its that W
ow or Hmmm that we can get at the coffee shop later on that is so good. It is usual
ly obvious when it is a good time to jump into bed, and not being driven takes a
ll the will we wont we nonsense away. It simply happens whenever it suits us both.
Without the sex drive dominating we are able to enjoy the whole of the sexual ac
t; it is not a blind mindless rush to orgasm. We enjoy the heightened physical p
leasures of touch, smell, sight and sound, the senses building and building to b
ecome purely sexual.
The point is that the whole act is
, but to prolong an orgasm or ride
ure ... teetering ... right on the
ng and off we go again ... it sure

so delicious, and orgasm is just a part of it

on the edge of one is to ride a wave of pleas
edge ... Yes! And then another wave comes alo
beats surfing! And each time it is a totally

different journey going wherever it goes! Pure physical pleasure!

And how good to find a fully sexual woman freed of inhibitions who equally enjoy
s a romp. The cells of the body afterwards tingling as though a fine electric char
ge is surging through like a total cell re-charge. That feeling of toes curled u
p, utter relaxation in the body, and an extraordinary intimacy with this woman w
ho has pleasured me, as I have pleasured her. Freely given and received, sensuou
s and physical, and any emotional goo out of the way. We often would lie in bed as
this physical delight emerged more and more, and say that the path to freedom w
ould be worth it just for the sex alone!Peters Journal, Sex

I found that there is much more to sex than having sex. It was fascinating to ob
serve how the sexual drive works. The sex-drive that is programmed into us is no
t concerned about our pleasure. It is merely there to reproduce the human specie
s and, as such, it operates differently in men and in women. As a woman I found
that I am instinctually driven to try and tie down the male, to keep him as a pr
otector and provider for potential off-spring. Even when there is no plan of hav
ing children, that drive still functions and plays its role. It is expressed in
wanting attention, love, assurance, promises, security, status, maybe financial
reliance and many more conditions, that have nothing to do with enjoying sex. Th
e sex drive in operation actually inhibits the free enjoyment of sex. It was imp
ortant for me to recognize and dismantle the functioning of this instinctual dri
ve in order not to be run by it.
The other challenge was the moral conditioning. All religions regard sex as eith
er outright bad or at least as a lower energy that needs to be refined and transce
nded. Then the body with its senses is not the primary focus of attention, but o
ne is run by thoughts, concepts, feelings and resulting confusion, which all inh
ibit the enjoyment of sex. It took a few months of committed investigation into
those morals and ethics and their fears and guilt, before I could enjoy the actu
al physical happening of sex rather than the dreams of never quite fulfilled hop
es and expectations. The resulting intimacy in sex is every time again astoundin
g.
I admit that it takes courage to question ones beliefs, face ones fears and examin
e the general agreed opinion of how to behave in bed, but the outcome is well wo
rth the investigation. I can highly recommend daring to eliminate ones conditioni
ng and sexual instinct and abandon oneself completely into the sensual experienc
e of two bodies having fun.
From my experience, I know there is no short-cut I have tried a few before. They
all left the strange taste of hypocrisy and I eventually grew bored of lifeless
pretensions. Now, without any idea of what is going to happen next, sex is fres
h each time, no memory of the day before whatsoever. It is indeed pure delight.

13.12.1998
RESPONDENT No 10: Hello everyone, I just wondering if there is anyone on this li
st who is attracted to Peter and Vineeto? What is it you admire about their writ
ing?
RESPONDENT No 13: I have valued conversation with people who are not afraid to s
ay what they think and to discuss everything openly without any inhibitions and
dogmas or clinging to a party-line. Usually people hide behind something (I am v
ery sorry to say that but many people hide behind Osho quotes even here on this
list) and are not willing to risk being ridiculed. I have made it a point to say

things when I feel like it and to accept what other people have to say. So this
is why I like talking to these guys openly hoping to learn something new.

18.12.1998
RESPONDENT: You know, the two things I have recently understood:
[Vineeto]:
One more thing, there is one issue that I dont quite get... Sometimes, out of a s
udden, I experience time of my life. All is deliciously beautiful moment by moment
and there are no problems whatsoever. But then there is this sweet feeling of co
mpleteness and not needing anything else at all. Sometimes it just goes on and on
for a while. It wont stop while I look at it... What is your experience about it
?
VINEETO: I am not so sure what you mean by time of my life. Maybe you can describe
to me your last time of your life.
Peter and I have described our peak-experiences, when ones sense of identity temp
orarily vacates the throne and apperception occurs. Life is then experienced as
easy, obvious, safe, abundant and magical. Richard describes apperception as ...

Richard: ... the minds perception of itself ... it is a pure awareness. Normally
the mind perceives through the senses and sorts the data received according to i
ts predilection; but the mind itself remains unperceived ... it is taken to be u
nknowable. Apperception is when the thinker and the feeler is not and an unmediated
awareness occurs. The pure consciousness experience is as if one has eyes in the
back of ones head; there is a three hundred and sixty degree awareness and all i
s self-evidently clear. This is knowing by direct experience, unmoderated by any
self whatsoever. One is able to see that I and me have been standing in the way of t
e perfection and purity that is the essential character of this moment of being
here becoming apparent. Here a solid and irrefutable native intelligence can ope
rate freely because the thinker and the feeler is in abeyance. One is the universes e
xperience of itself as a human being ... after all, the very stuff this body is
made of is the very stuff of the universe. There is no outside to the perfection o
f the universe to come from; one only thought and felt that one was a separate i
dentity. Apperception is something that brings the facticity born out of a direc
t experience of the actual. Then what one is (what not who) is these sense organs in
operation: this seeing is me, this hearing is me, this tasting is me, this touc
hing is me, this smelling is me, and this thinking is me. Whereas I, the identity,
am inside the body: looking out through my eyes as if looking out through a windo
w, listening through my ears as if they were microphones, tasting through my tongue,
touching through my skin, smelling through my nose, and thinking through my brain. O
course I must feel isolated, alienated, alone and lonely, for I am cut off from the
magnificence of the actual world the world as-it-is by my very presence. Richard,
List B, No 26, 13.11.1998
Another option of time of my life is an Altered State of Consciousness. The ASC is
characterised by a feeling of Oneness ... human love becomes Divine Love what I
call Love Agap wherein love ceases being a feeling and becomes a state of being
... Pure Being. This feeling of Union with The Divine Unitary Awareness is an Ocea
nic experience that assures immortality ... and is thus selfishness to its very
core. Peace-on-earth is readily sacrificed for residing in this Deathless State.
I have given No 12 a extensive description of the time when I experienced such a
n Altered State of Consciousness and how I managed to get out of its seductive g
rip.

The difference between a pure consciousness experience and ASC is that there is
no feeling or emotion in a peak-experience. There is simply this obvious, sparklin
g, intimate experience of the perfection and purity all around. Such peak-experi
ences became the reference points for me to clean myself up, to reach this purit
y 24 hrs a day. In the peak-experience you know that the only problem is you and y
ou set out to eliminate your-self, bit by bit.
RESPONDENT: Also, many of Poonjajis messengers (Gangaji, Arjuna Argh, etc) lead p
eople to realizing that you are That the emptiness that is the same in everyone, t
he essence of existence from which everything flows. The essence is the same in
everybody, hence love, etc. I think it might give you strength to cut through al
l guilt and past conditioning but it could backfire if we become identified with
the concept of emptiness and being it (create concept of emptiness moment by mo
ment and then identify myself with it).
Anyways, sending you Love, even though I cant call it my love, and I also know th
at sending it is impossible.
VINEETO: The spiritual goal is Love, dissolving the feeling of separation with t
he feeling of being now One-with-the-Divine. You are THAT describes it very well, po
inting to somewhere else other than the physical body, here on this planet, at thi
s point in time. The only danger on the path to actual freedom is that you can r
un aground on the Rock of Enlightenment, as Richard puts it out of his own experie
nce.
Actual Freedom means coming out of the real world of beliefs, emotions, including
love imagination and instinctual passions into the actual, factual, material, co
rporeal world of the physical senses. Usually one cannot be fully in ones senses,
because there is this little man in the head and the little man in the heart, t
hat make up you, the thinker, the feeler. Only when we get rid of this identity by
investigating and eliminating every emotion and every belief it is possible to
be the eyes seeing, the ears hearing, and the skin sensing the touch. Only then
our senses wont be not filtered or censored. Then, simply being alive is pure del
ight.

18.12.1998
RESPONDENT: As I have been reading your posts one thing keeps really bothering m
e. You said that as you pay attention to it, the sweet feeling in your body which
one could call love always disappears...
This is really bothering me. And then I have found this (about what you guys or
Richard wrote in your journal, Q&A No 2):
[Richard]: If one examines ones life carefully, one will quickly ascertain that i
t is always this moment ... and if one is not feeling good right now, then that
is a signal that something is amiss. Consequently, one can rectify the situation
and get back on track as swiftly as possible ... the aim being to have feeling goo
d as a bottom line in ones life. The essence of actualism is to constantly ask one
self this: How am I experiencing this moment of being alive? Richard, List A, No
2
Well, I call feeling good = love! To me, Not feeling good is the absence of the deli
cate, sweet feeling of gooooooddness in your body. Otherwise what is feeling goo
d???? Love is naturally when the organism is running perfectly smooth. I guess it
is just a matter of definition. It is funny, but some people might argue for lov
e while you might say love is not important, etc just feeling good every moment

is what matters ... while perhaps everybody is talking about the same feeling in
the body.
VINEETO: You are really digging into it now. Great journey, isnt it?
Feeling good = being at ease, the absence of churning emotions, the peace of min
d, when the little man in the head and the feelings in the heart are not in cont
rol of your body and brain.
Love, on the contrary, is a feeling that there is a presence, a positive emotion
to counteract the otherwise prevalent feeling of separation. The self, this psy
chological and psychic entity inside of us, creates by its very nature a feeling
of separation, because having an identity, a self, one has to feel to be someon
e different and separate to everything and everyone around. This positive emotio
n will disappear when you become aware of it and trace it to its roots the sorro
w of feeling separate and the fear of being alone.
But when you are simply feeling good or being good, because there is no issue go
ing on in your head and heart you are free to enjoy the delicious sensation of b
eing alive.
RESPONDENT: Osho says: meditation and love go hand in hand. Is it not the same a
s what you guys have been saying? Meditation defined as aliveness, watchfulness,
investigation, paying attention to ones feelings.
VINEETO: When you are trying to fit what we say into what Osho said you will mis
s the point entirely. In the last days I have talked to two old girlfriends, bot
h enthusiastically and devotedly on the spiritual path, and I have tried to tell
them about my findings and experiences. It was bewildering to see how they both
said it was all the same like the spiritual. It leaves me at a loss what words
to use. But, I will try again
Actual freedom is 180 degrees in the opposite direction.
Meditation is based on the watcher. You watch your thoughts and feelings in orde
r to rise above them, to dis-identify from them, which in the end amounts to goi
ng somewhere else, where you are not the body, not the mind, not the emotion. Yo
u are to identify with the watcher and thus move away from the source of your tr
oubles, your body and brain inflicted with the emotions and instincts of the Hum
an Condition. If you persist and identify with the watcher strongly enough, you
become the watcher and simply watch your body doing its number. Nothing is changed
in the Human Condition except you become someone other than this flesh and blood
body. Then you become the soul (the heart), and maybe you even become so deluded a
s to flip into an altered state of consciousness, aka enlightenment.
Actual Freedom is firmly based on this flesh and blood body with its physical se
nses as the only actuality there is. Everything that not perceivable by the phys
ical senses is feeling and imagination, deeply ingrained in our genetic heritage
and our socially absorbed psyche, but nevertheless imagination and as such nonactual. The aim of the path to actual freedom is to come out of the psychic and
psychological structure of the real world, the instinctual passions, emotions and
beliefs, and step into the actual, sensate and sensual world of the physical uni
verse, where everything is already here, perfect, magical and pure.
In order to come out of the real world one needs to investigate into the hooks tha
t keep pulling one back into misery, malice and fear and investigate and elimina
te them whenever they appear. That is done by running the question: How am I expe
riencing this moment of being alive? Then everything that is preventing you from
feeling good will be examined and traced to its root.

Usually, when examining an emotion, the first thing I found was a certain concep
t. By questioning the validity of it and the effects that this idea had in my li
fe, I often recognised that it fitted a general, collective belief-system. Quest
ioning the collective belief proved a bit more scary. But it is only fear that p
revented me from acknowledging the belief as belief and the facts as facts. Ackn
owledging the facts brought me back to here, back to my senses.
For instance, survival fear would blink red lights when I decided to quit workin
g with my former peer-group. Examining the facts revealed that I could easily su
rvive without the income from that particular job. But the instinctual fear blur
red my view and made it great detective work to come to a sensible evaluation. I
had to see the instinct in its functioning in order to not be driven by it.
RESPONDENT: Love defined as the fragrance = feeling good, whenever the organism
is running smoothly, a sign that one is feeling good, indeed. Any comments?
VINEETO: Love, as I said above, is a feeling and an emotion, born out of our ins
tinct to nurture, and with awareness you can see it pouring out of you. It is di
rected towards someone or everyone and thus indirectly contributing to your sens
e of identity.
Feeling good, as in absence of feeling bad, is purely being ones senses and being
aware of it all. Without a problem surfacing or an emotion churning one is able
to experience life and the world sensately and completely at ease, whatever hap
pens.
I like your question. This spiritual world is such an insidious psychic castle i
n the clouds, all produced in our heads and hearts. And everybody believes somet
hing, everybody wants to keep the good emotions like love and then clip a bit of f
reedom on to it. But that will only be a synthetic freedom, a feeling of freedom
, not the genuine actual article.
Peter said it well in his letter to No. 1:
Peter: But, one can get into torturous semantics with all this stuff about ego a
nd soul, while simply setting your aim in life to become happy and harmless cuts
right through the lot. Peter, List C, No 1

5.1.1999
RESPONDENT: Whats up?
VINEETO: Just an hour ago we got back on line after a real long Christmas holiday.
It was really interesting how in the first few days we both, Peter and I, had w
ithdrawal symptoms, the main communication means and source of fun of the last w
eeks suddenly cut off. Then we settled happily into doing nothing, watching TV,
going for walks into town, playing FreeCell. So the two weeks have been about th
e pleasure of doing nothing, and doing it really well.
Doing nothing really well for me means not to get bored or down or itchy or compla
ining or neurotic about finding something to do. It was a good test and it went
well. We had a splendid time, together and alone, meeting a few people and now w
e are back on line. I wonder how it will develop on the list, life is such a cur
ious business, you never know whats around the corner, each moment a delightful s
urprise, again and again and again.
Looking forward to continue our conversation

21.1.1999
VINEETO: I dont know what has attracted you, No 17, or you, No 4, to become a dis
ciple of Osho? I am intrigued to hear.
RESPONDENT: Several things in my case (at least initially):
VINEETO: Good to have a talk again, I was wondering how you were doing. You seem
to be having a lot of fun.
I can relate to all the four points as being part of my own initial attraction.
It was quite an effort to work myself out of big daddy and I have used the energy in
the Ashram and sannyasins as the rope to pull me out of my moods and fears.
I had wanted to become enlightened and the more I learned about it the more I wa
nted it. But firstly after Rajneeshs death and the resulting transformation of th
e Ashram into another religion-headquarter induced my first doubts about enlight
enment being really such a good solution to life. Finally coming across Richard,
the picture of enlightenment began really to wobble, and slowly, slowly I start
ed to understand why so many things had not made sense.
This is the sense I made out of it afterwards all the great moments, all my blis
sful experiences and all the love-filled moments I had put into the one category
thats what enlightenment is going to be like, just much better and going on forev
er, a bit similar as I imagined heaven to be as a kid. But those experiences had
all been of a varying nature, some were esoteric, some were plain imagination (l
ike past-life fantasies), some were group-induced highs and some were insights i
nto my practical life that hit like a hammer. But in hindsight, a few of those w
ere pure consciousness experiences, where there was no affection, love or feelin
g of beauty involved, but which were an experience of purity, clarity and non-se
paration.
These were the experiences that had been the most appealing. Once I saw and unde
rstood the different quality between an emotional high, a blissful devotional san
ce, a powerful imagination and a pure consciousness experience (PCE), and once I
had such a PCE again, it became clear what I wanted. It was obvious in that ver
y moment.
I also knew that every bit of my self, however wonderful it might have felt at tim
es, still would be inhibiting the intimacy with the actual physical world and wi
th human beings that I had experienced in these peak-experiences. So, thats what
I am doing right now, nibbling away and exploring, investigating and eliminating
all the bits of my self that pop up in the course of my days.
How is it for you today? Have your goals changed from the initial spark? Have th
ey become more clear? What do you want to get out of life when you look at it to
day?

26.1.1999
RESPONDENT: On a spiritual path a sub-personality called watcher is often created.
But doesnt one need to create a sub-personality called an investigator to investig
ate all emotions, instincts and beliefs ?
VINEETO: No, the watcher is not a created sub-personality. The watcher is a created
identity to eventually replace the normal identity so one can become the Divine, th

e Whole, That. You dont need a sub-personality to investigate. You simply investigat
e. You apply sensible and silly instead of feeling right or feeling wrong. It may h
in the course of investigating that you identify yourself as the investigator a
s I have done for a while but I used it, riding on the thrill of being the discov
erer. But ruthlessly questioning every emotion and belief, this part of the affec
tive identity was, in due course, also discovered and eliminated. But first thin
gs first.
RESPONDENT: Also, I would like to know how you do it in practice. My mind is so
creative that it is willing to create emotions, problems, feelings, etc. forever
... especially when I start looking for them, trying to sort them out and make s
ense out of them. It is like a self psychoanalysis. Lets say you feel a bit anxio
us. You recognize it and see that you dont feel that you perform well at work. So
, you are anxious because of that. Now, you analyse why you dont perform well at
work and there are several reasons: you dont like it so much but you need the mon
ey and like the life stability it provides; you feel somewhat depressed because
of the gloomy weather, you have got a nasty common cold and you feel that everyt
hing is gray and boring.
VINEETO: Yes, it is like self-psychoanalysis but with the aim of eliminating the
psyche, not, as traditional therapy does, healing the psyche and shuffling the in
stinctual passions around a bit. I used to compare it with moving furniture on t
he sinking Titanic. In the process, all the emotions and beliefs of the Human Co
ndition come in to scare you like ghosts. How dare you question your own self! But
in persisting and taking one step at the time, you find that slowly, slowly you
start making sense, first of one bad mood, then another and the success of a bi
t more freedom each time gives you the courage and strength to move on.
Taking your example gloomy weather weather is something so obviously outside of
our control, and yet almost everyone I meet complains about the weather. What a
delight, when it is blue sky with vivid colours, what a delight when it rains, w
etting the ground, tinkering on the roof. If the weather annoys you, there is so
mething to look at, maybe it is some emotion surfacing about something completel
y unrelated to the weather or some dearly-held conviction being tickled that mak
es you wobble. When you stick with one issue until you found its core-belief it
might take days you will experience that it loses its grip, that you can see the
implications and ramifications. A bit more freedom from being affected by the w
eather is gained ... a bit more happiness.
RESPONDENT: What is the next step you do? Stay with your feelings no matter how
long they last. The common cold will be gone, you will get an interesting projec
t eventually at work and good sex at home? Do you turn on TV and enjoy a movie,
read a book? Do you try to change your life (might no be good idea if in bad moo
d).
VINEETO: Well, it is up to you. I usually stuck with one issue until I gained mo
re clarity. Some issues were too complex, I had to whittle away the surrounding
emotions and beliefs first. But in the end I knew that if I dont tackle the subje
ct now when its happening, it will be back in due time. So why not do it now? Bu
t it is your life, your investigation, your pace. Peter and I have written in Pe
ters Journal about how we tackled our issues which are more or less similar to ev
erybody, as they are all part of the Human Condition. (Intelligence is a good chap
ter for a description of his investigations). But the order and importance of th
e issues are most likely to be different for everyone.
Some days you might wonder why you even dared to question the Tried and True, or o
ne could call it the Tried and Failed, what turmoil of questions you let yourself
into. On other days you may be dancing because you finally found the root-cause
for your unease at work. Its all a thrilling enterprise, the adventure of a lifet
ime. It is such a fascinating thing to un-wire ones own brain and to challenge th

e belief that Human Nature cannot be changed. It is possible. It can be changed.

RESPONDENT: Or is it that because your main project in life is self investigatio
n, you dont mind self investigation no matter how many black clouds are coming yo
ur way? You remember a PCE as a reference point which lets you endure? Or maybe
is it like you recognize how precious this life is and enjoy the journey from no
thing to nothing?
VINEETO: You asked what kept me going? Yes, the first and the following peak-exp
eriences were very important. I understood from these experiences that it is me wh
o is in the road, all of me. And so I set out to dismantle me, made up of beliefs, e
motions and instincts. I developed a fine nose for what is me and what is simply t
he body and its senses, what is conditioning and what is the brains intelligence
and apperception. And I mistrusted every believing, every feeling. I dusted my brain
off, got it out of the cupboard where it had been put away as the mind in spiritu
al circles responsible for all evil and I started to use my discriminating and i
nquiring capacity to discover the actual facts under the rubbish heap of gut-feel
ings, intuition, truths or general accepted conviction.
Sure, it raised a great deal of fear to strike off on my own from the group that
I believed and felt I belonged to. But with every discovered fact my confidence gre
w, with every dismantled belief my dependency on others diminished, morals were
replaced by silly and sensible and I could use my own intelligence to make that choi
ce.
Investigation and an actual freedom are my main project in life. It is the only
sensible thing to do with my life. I became vitally concerned with my own happin
ess and eliminating malice in me. The PCE as the reference point showed me how e
asy and perfect it is, so why not have it 24 hours a day, every day? And since i
t is only this moment that I can experience the delight of being alive, it would
be a waste of time not to experience the perfection of this moment. I have only
this moment it is as precious as anything. Without an after-life to look forwar
d to or worry about, I have maybe 30 more years and then thats it. I didnt want to
waste those 30 years in misery, doubt, depression, jealousy, hate or even a bad
mood. Thats what kept me going through all the dark clouds of fear, doubt or laz
iness.
It is not a journey from nothing to nothing it is a journey from misery to delig
ht, from malice to harmlessness, from identity to not being separate, from self to
freedom.

1.2.1999
RESPONDENT: Are you attracted to having sex with different men? When there is no
love or feelings between you and your partner this could happen, I guess. Also,
jealousy would not be the issue.
VINEETO: Oh good, a down-to-earth question. Sex without love...
One of the first things that Peter and I discovered preventing actual intimacy w
ere the feelings of love that sweet syrup that was usually poured over the spiky
, malicious, miserable self, which one is most of the time! When Peter and I quest
ioned love and threw it out, naturally the question came up in me without the fee
ling of love, why would I want to be with him?
What would be left of me when I didnt feel love? How could I relate both to Peter
and other people, if not with emotion or intuition? What would I have to offer
in friendships or conversations, if not sympathy and consolation? My whole edifi

ce of who I was, who I believed myself to be, began to fall in a heap as I questio
ned and demolished the attributes of love and emotion. Now naked of all those ch
aracteristics and beliefs, as well as their resultant emotions and behaviour whi
ch have kept man and woman apart for millennia, I am experiencing for the first
time in my life an actual intimacy with a man. Now there are no dreams, no expec
tations, no emotions or any other restrictions that could cloud the thrill of me
eting another human being. Now instead of random moments of sweet love I am able t
o give Peter my full attention and bare awareness each time we communicate and s
o does he.
I just hang out with him because it is immense fun, all the time. It is as much
fun sitting next to each other on our computers, watching TV, commenting on the
weather, serving a cup of coffee, cooking dinner, going for a walk into town, ha
ving a chat while lying each on our couch or having a rompacious romp. As for je
alousy that disappeared along with the feeling of love. Each of us is free to do
what we want to do and so each does what we enjoy most.
I have written about sex without love some 12 months ago:
[Vineeto]: When Peter and I started to throw out love it had a great impact on my
sexual identity. It was an intense and scary time because right behind the nice,
embellishing veil of love lingered all the monsters and demons of being an anima
l, a whore, a slut, not human and having sex with a stranger. Enjoying sex without
being in love is still considered one of the greatest sins of Christian morality.
And Eastern spirituality regards sex as the biggest obstacle to enlightenment.
Not only had I to face my own personal conditioning about sex, but I was also co
nfronted with the fact of stepping out of the collective accepted behaviour and
limits that every woman had been taught. Demons of atavistic fears would present
me with their ferocious stories, as though I was still living in the Middle Age
s, where women were burnt at the stake for leaving the fold or were expelled for
not conforming. It took some effort to understand that both fears and beliefs a
round sex were simply inherited from other people, they dont have any actual rele
vance for me here and now.
Digging deeper, stepping outside of the realm of sexual conditioning and beliefs
I then discovered their underlying force the sexual instincts. This inheritance
from our animal past is simply installed to blindly ensure the continuity of th
e species. It has nothing to do with my happiness and inhibits any sensible beha
viour. Those blind instincts cause, among other troubles, possessiveness, jealou
sy, rape, murder and overpopulation. Identified and seen as what they were, thes
e instincts eventually lost their significance and their grip over me. Now I can
enjoy the sensibility and pleasure of sex without being driven, free of the nee
d and dependency that used to be the inevitable consequence. I now dont need to r
einforce my female sexual identity or practise my manipulative power over men he
nce the need for flirting has disappeared. Relating to men without the restricti
on of sexual flirtation is indeed a freedom to meet them in a new and fresh way.
A Bit of Vineeto
With the sexual drive gone, I dont have any need to flirt or hunt for other men.
With the feeling of love gone, I enjoy each moment with Peter as fresh and intim
ate as if it was the first time. There are neither boredom nor fear, neither exp
ectation nor disappointment, neither mysteries nor secrets, neither bickering no
r interference. And what better play-mate could I find! It is ongoing delight.
Continued on Actual Freedom Mailing List No 7

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===
=====
c-corr12b.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 12

Topics covered
Spiritual search / actualism, belief, soul, me, P&Vs non-spiritual spiritual ego bel
ieving it has no beliefs * joy / happiness, compassion / harmless, Truth-producti
on-machine, playful malice, sex * bursting bubble of beliefs, my PCE, living toget
her, care * being the heart, religious insanity, movie Awakening, third alternativ
e, judgement * closed -minded, dialogue * warnings of rude awakening, no-death teach
ings, fighting evil * one mind, internet, spirituality / actual freedom * semantic
s , 180 degrees opposite, Richards nine points * world of spirits, purity and per
fection * projection , harmless, genuine article, sensuous

1.2.1999
VINEETO: Hi,
I do have to butt in when you draw a conclusion of what I have said to say it ag
ain differently for clarification...
RESPONDENT to No 4: I was attempting to describe the transcendental state of wit
nessing, we refer to as Satori. After reading Vineetos response to No. 23 (I know
I swore I would delete their messages) Who am I, it is becoming clear to me that
all this typing, confusion, and disagreement is partly semantics, ...
VINEETO: It is not semantics at all.
Should you be interested to know, I can tell you the vital difference once more
(without feeling)...
RESPONDENT to No 4: ... but more to do with people stuck believing that where th
ey are is the only truth.

VINEETO: I assume that with people stuck believing that where they are is the onl
y truth, you mean Peter and me and not yourself?
But before deciding about the right and wrong prematurely, why not first completely
understand what we are presenting? Then you really know what you are accepting o
r dismissing.

As for stuck believing its like believing the Santa-Claus story as a child you mig
have believed in Santa Claus or the Dutch equivalent. So he was Father Christmas
, who knows all your sins and who brings you presents. But once you have seen th
rough the scheme that the guy in front of you is just the neighbour with a wig a
nd a false beard, then there is neither fear nor hope for reward. After seeing t
hrough it once, you can never believe that fairy-tale again. Its not that you now
believe that there is no Father Christmas, you simply know that he never existed.
The same is the case with the belief in a soul or God. I do not believe that there
is no soul or no God, I simply have seen through the passionate imagination it al
l is. In several pure consciousness experiences I have gathered enough confidenc
e that my ego and soul are nothing other than my self, and knowing the purity of l
iving in the actual world without the presence of this self I am determined to get
out of the way, I aim for self-immolation.
The point is that without me, the feeling entity inside me, the very act of believ
ing is simply not possible. To be able to believe you need feelings and imaginat
ion. Without feelings and imagination there is no me that would do the believing,
and no me that has any investment in believing anything. The faculty that believes
is non-existent.
RESPONDENT: In my waking up, first I learned I was full of shit. That all I beli
eved was somehow flawed, programmed, not me. Then I learned that I could use the
feeling sensations in my body, which are tied into the ego-conditioned-mind, to
go beyond it all by totally sensing the body. I learned to move this energy aro
und, transform it into other energies. I think P&V are stuck somewhere around he
re. And it is easy for the tricky ego to regain control. The spiritual ego, and
in their case, the non-spiritual spiritual ego, believing it has no beliefs, yet
blind to their believing they know-it-all.
VINEETO: It is a bit disconcerting not to be quite able to place P&V, isnt it? I
have never heard of a non-spiritual spiritual ego believing it has no belief. It i
s a completely new definition you have invented here to give us the appropriate pl
ace us in your belief-system. Sounds like a new gene. Quite an amazing invention
, really.
RESPONDENT: It has just occurred to me that this list is the only place where I
really talk about this. (Ive been wondering what my attraction to this list is abou
t.)
VINEETO: Isnt it wonderful that we can talk about these experiences on the list a
nd compare notes and experiences! I enjoy it immensely and I enjoy you posts ver
y much.

1.2.1999
VINEETO: How are you?
RESPONDENT: Fine and dandy and you?

VINEETO: Thank you, I am excellent. A wonderful gush of tropical rain is just po

uring down, the abundance of skin-tempered moisture in the air and the sound of
raindrops hitting the palm leaves, the birds twitter away about the abundance of
food that comes with the rains and it is great to be alive.
*
VINEETO: I find it fascinating, you seem to become interested in happiness and h
armlessness you are proposing to someone else becoming happy and harmless, so ma
ybe it is not such a terribly thing to consider, after all? If you wish that on
No. 33 or No. 14, why not for yourself? Dont you want to be happy and harmless as
well? The trouble is, nobody else can make you happy and harmless, you have to
do it for yourself. And what a thrilling journey it is!
RESPONDENT: Actually I am quite joyful. I make a distinction between happiness a
nd joy. Happiness is conditional, joy is from ones heart.

VINEETO: Good, that we come to discuss the term happiness. The happiness I live in
is unconditional. It is far superior to the fickle happiness that is only there
when certain conditions are fulfilled. It is neither dependant on what happens
on the outside, nor on having to go inside, into the heart it has nothing to do wit
eart-felt feelings like love or compassion. I am simply happy because I have no
objection to being here in the actual world, on the contrary, every moment of be
ing alive is delicious. Maybe delight is a better word. I just like the catchine
ss of the phrase happy and harmless. It is a state of at-ease-ness, abundance and
intimacy with everything around me, unburdened from the shackles of the self.
RESPONDENT: And as for the term harmless, I dont care for the implications of pow
erlessness that I hear in this word. Reminds me of an image of an impotent overthe-hill codger. I prefer compassionate.
VINEETO: I find that an interesting statement. Do you say that you prefer compas
sion because to be harmless is to be powerless?
That was exactly my finding for me, Compassion implied the use of power whereas
being harmless implies no use of power at all.
While I was in the state of an all-encompassing feeling of love for all or Compass
ion, I felt superior to everyone and wanted to spread this superior state of Lov
e and Truth. It is an incredible empowering feeling. But then I saw that I had o
nly replaced the powerlessness of being a not-knowing seeker with the power of know
ing the Truth and, as such, I was still trapped within the system of power, inclu
ding superiority and inferiority, higher and lower, better and worse.
I wrote about it at the time:
[Vineeto]: I recognize a satisfaction and pride of finally standing equal as a wo
man besides all those superior men I have aspired to emulate, copy, obey, surren
der to or at least understand. Now I know exactly where they are at. Big deal! S
eeing the Power and Glory in action and its impact on me I turn away. This is no
t the perfection I am searching for, this is not the purity that I know from pea
k-experiences.
As I watch the sky dawn in its wonderful changing colours with life awakening al
l around, leaves rustling in the wind, cicadas chirping, magpies whistling, fear
returns and I welcome it as a sign that I am on the road to freedom again. The
delusion of Power and Glory is seen as what it is and disappears while I lie on
the couch contemplating life and death and the universe. One great realization a
fter the other are floating in and out of my head, engulfing me with their convi
ncing web.

Suddenly I become aware what is happening. I am a Truth-Production-Machine! I am p

roducing the Truth of Freedom to maintain my Self. What a bummer! Just call it Freedo
m and make it a spiritual belief-system! Very, very cunning indeed. Back into old
time religion!
This realization truly ripped the carpet from under my feet. While it crumbled I
recognized the enormity of its implications. My certainty vanished while I stil
l tried to maintain philosophizing about freedom and death. What to do now? Wher
e to go from here? The ground I was standing on as an identity shook considerabl
y ... Vineeto, Exploring Death and Altered States of Consciousness
This psychic hierarchy of Power and Glory stood in the road of experiencing the
innocence and purity of harmlessness and the actual intimacy with other human be
ings as fellow human beings. Only by eliminating the Grand Self, together with t
he personal self (ego), can I be truly be without harm, without sorrow, without
malice. And without a me to be emotionally hurt or insulted, I have no need of any
power to defend me. I removed the very cause for the need to have power over othe
rs.
It is utterly safe to be harmless in this perfect and benevolent physical univer
se.
RESPONDENT: Im sure you noticed I was a bit disingenuous with No 33, or did you t
ake me literally? Twas playful malice to match her energy.
VINEETO: There was a stage in my search for freedom where I had to admit that ev
en playful malice was malice. And it was not agreeable with my aim of being perf
ect. In opting for removing the very cause of malice in me, the self, I decided fo
r the best. The challenge for me was that nobody would make me hit back, feel an
noyed, feel irritated, feel hurt, peeved, insulted, offended or withdrawn and wh
at a wonderful freedom that is.
RESPONDENT: On the subject of sex without heart or love, how do you manage it?
VINEETO: I wrote to No 13 on that subject. He asked almost the same question.
Practically speaking, without sex-drive there is only the pleasure of the senses
, which I enjoy like a good cup of coffee or a rainstorm. We jump into bed, find
the start buttons and wheee its a different tango each time.
... shall I describe the feelings that usually happen when a man and a woman are
in bed together? Insecurity, pleasing, boredom, desire, frustration, you dont do
what I like, too much, not enough, too quick, too rough, too slow, too long, feel
ings about the last disagreement, maybe it would be better with somebody else, sha
me, guilt, sexual fantasies, complaints, and then to make up for the resulting f
eeling of separation love. But none of those feelings are actual, they are just
happening in the head (or in the heart, if you like).
Without any feelings in the road I am as intimate with Peter as can be, no selves
are interfering in our dance of the senses. Each one is equally enjoying him/her
self and the other and there is no worry at all about how things should be. Such
ease, such aliveness, such delight.
I am not managing it, I am having the best time with a man that I ever had harmoni
ous, peaceful, intimate, fascinating, sensually sexual, never the same, 24 hours
a day.
I like your questions. Tell me what you make of it.

6.2.1999
RESPONDENT: In your answer to No 13 and me on this subject,
antical confusion. You talk about delight, but not joy. You
s if were heart. You discuss intimacy without compassion. I
believe you do also, so allow me to point out that there is
e between love from the heart and being in love.

I perceive again sem

talk about in-love a
like to teach, as I
a distinct differenc

VINEETO: Maybe you need to tell me then, what the difference is for you between
love from the heart and being in love? The only love I have known has been feeli
ngs in the heart. Is there another kind?
Further, I never talked about me being in love. Neither intimacy nor sensual sex
uality have anything to do with love, be it from the heart or in love. Actual intima
cy is meeting the other without any preconceived ideas or feelings in the way, a
ble to respond to the actual alive human being in front of me, here, now, fresh
each moment, again and again. Love is just a pure substitute for actual intimacy
, it is nothing but passionate imagination.
RESPONDENT: I see that you have done a lot of internal searching on the insanity
of falling-in-love, or being-in-love. I totally concur about going beyond this
madness. But despite your objections about love, delight and joy of being alive
is heart, is love, my dear. Pure love. I have perceived your care, which with pu
re love is compassion by the way, in most of your posts.
VINEETO: You say you have had many awakenings. Did it ever occur to you that the
re is more awakening possible maybe even awakening from the spiritual, compassio
nate dream?
... when the bubble of beliefs bursts and you experience the actual world for th
e first time with clean eyes, unrestricted by emotions, beliefs or instincts...
I have described that bubble bursting:

[Vineeto]: ... I could see more of my ideas or concepts and other peoples ideas, b
ut they were simply ideas. None of them had any relevance to the actuality of th
e physical world! In seeing the fact, everything stood still and the whole const
ruct of beliefs suddenly disappeared. Then, for the first time in all my years o
f the spiritual search, I experienced several hours outside of the psychic world.
Being outside, I could see that this world is a huge, all-encompassing construct,
created and held in place by the dreams, beliefs, bonds, power-battles, emotions
and different spiritual ideas of all of humanity. Everyone is part of it, weavi
ng and reproducing bits of this psychic carpet. The more people believe in one par
ticular version the more that version becomes real or true. Intuitive or psychic peop
e are simply a little better acquainted with the rules and occurrences of this ot
her-world. It is never actual though, because it relies on constant re-creation t
hrough imagination and belief. The moment people cease to believe in a particula
r religion, idea or value, that very concept eventually disappears from the eart
h. Actual, on the contrary, is what is already here without anybody applying a f
eeling, an interpretation, a belief or any other psychic effort. It is simply here
, visual, tangible, audible and tastable.
That night I had stuck my head beyond the blanket of beliefs including good and
bad, right and wrong, love and evil. In the first moments, with the psychic world
disappearing, this new place was stark, black, scary, a big hole and a bottomles
s abyss. Suddenly the ground under my feet wavered as the very existence of beli
efs ceased. For a while I was lost, frightened and bewildered.
After a minute or two that appeared to contain an eternity of complex understand

ing, Peter said to me, Hello, how are you? Good that you are here! Here obviously me
ant that there existed a place outside the belief-systems! I turned round, out o
f my shock and bewilderment, into the actual world, and saw that I was simply si
tting on the couch with Peter. Here was someone sitting next to me, another huma
n being, not particularly a man, lover or boyfriend. Just a human being, smiling
and pleased to meet me, eager to explore with me the next event in life. He is
interested. And I am interested. Who is this person? What will happen next? What
will he say next? What will we do next? It is exciting, alive, right here and a
great pleasure!
The pure and immediate adventure of experiencing this moment of being alive was
so utterly superior to everything I had come across in the name of meditation, b
liss or satori that it spoke for itself. Being in the actual world, everything is
simply obvious, needs no explanation or theory, and contains no emotional memori
es of any past struggle or fear. There is nothing that blurs or edits the experi
ence of the world around me, which is both wondrous and delightful. Freedom is l
iving each moment as it happens, without any objection. It is not the end-produc
t of years of building up a structured belief-system; it is the opposite destruc
tion of everything that lies between me and the experience of the actual world.
Freedom is simply what is left after I rid myself of every layer of the emotiona
l and instinctual self, which is the only obstruction to my direct experience of t
he universe. A Bit of Vineeto
RESPONDENT: ...your care, which with pure love is compassion by the way ...
VINEETO: Compassion is a passion which binds the one who needs compassion. The dea
l was that Osho gave his Compassion and I gave my devotion, which brought me to
a point where I was even ready to die for him. At the height of the war against
the fundamental Christians in Oregon, when rumours went around on the Ranch that
the National Guards were on alarm and could attack any day, we were ready to li
e down on the streets, have the tanks roll over us and be killed for love and pr
otection for the Master. Cant you see the power in it? Pure love is only an ideal
, it is not pure at all. It is always a bargain.
Care, consideration and benevolence are not a relationship, they are not even a
state of being. They are simply intrinsic to the human body, once the alien entity
has been extinguished. They have no strings attached. I simply wish you well in d
escribing what I found out. What you do with it is completely your business.
RESPONDENT: So my next question is How did you get stuck with a head-fucker like
Peter? ;-)
VINEETO: Have you ever met a woman who can live in peace and harmony with a headfucker? I never have. Every woman complains that men dont share their feelings, that
they repress their emotions and that they withdraw.
Since I am living with Peter in perfect peace and harmony, he cannot be a head-f
ucker, he must be something else.
You can read in Peters journal, in the chapter Living Together what really happened
.
Peter was the first man who offered a commitment to look at and eliminate everyt
hing that prevented us from living together in peace and harmony, equity and int
imacy. We entered a contract that we both would look at everything that would su
rface as an obstacle for intimacy between us, and it took only eight months to i
nvestigate all the issues between us and since then there has not been a single
bickering, an argument or the usual withdrawal, let alone a compromise. We are p
erfectly at ease with each other as well as on our own and sex is an exciting ad
venture each night again.

In short, living with Peter is beyond my wildest dreams, a delight every hour of
the day. And as for care how much more can you care for human beings on the plan
et than to sacrifice your self to extinguish malice and sorrow in yourself and giv
e an example what can be possible for everyone.

8.2.1999
VINEETO: Maybe you need to tell me then, what the difference is for you between
love from the heart and being in love? The only love I have known has been feeli
ngs in the heart. Is there another kind?
RESPONDENT: There is much I could say here. However, since I dont feel you will h
ear my answer, perhaps Ill let your questions stand by themselves. Koans for you.
VINEETO: So, you are saving your pearls of wisdom because you assume that I dont ap
preciate them?
I am willing to learn anything that is new, but I am not interested in re-hashed
old wisdom which is an obvious failure. If you can present me with something th
at is sound-proof and water-tight, meaning that it works such that it makes peop
le happy and harmless, free from the natural instincts of fear, aggression, nurtur
e and desire, I am more than ready to listen.
I have had all kinds of psychic experiences of being the heart, knowing, feeling com
passionate for everyone and everything, at one with the Divine and the imaginary
bliss of being one with the universe they are all very nice for the experiencer
, but none of them is a solution to both personal and global peace-on-earth. And
none of those experiences are actual they all happen in the head affective imag
ination to the point of madness.
The other day I wrote to Alan about such an experience of this religious insanit
y:
[Vineeto to Alan]: This blissful state seems unemotional, no love or compassion i
s felt in the heart, everything is a cool oneness. One feels all-pervading, I am ev
erything and everything is me and everything is Divine. The experience can easily
be mistaken as intimacy because the sense of me is so expanded across the univers
e and spread so thin, so to speak, that me is hardly noticeable. As I am every thin
g, one is of course feeling intimate with the TV set or is able to intuit into some
one elses, in this case Mrs. Roberts, religious imaginations. (I had read Bernade
tte Roberts, a Christian Mystics book, What is Self?). Fascinating and seductive an
d very eerie. I think this could be a bit like the parallel universe that scient
ists fantasize about. One then lives in a universe where everything is a virtual
replica of the actual, with the glow of divinity, unity and timeless-ness to it
and as it is virtual, it is controlled by the imagination of the one who makes
it up. This parallel universe feels and is imagined as intimate or not-separate, and
et it is twice removed from the physical body, the senses, this actual world. Th
is insanity of feeling one with everything is the barrier that prevents one from exp
eriencing the world as a flesh and blood body, with the physical senses. Boy, I
really understand why these guys are so far out there, lost and locked in an ima
ginary space that has almost no return-ticket.
But then, you only have to pinch yourself and where it hurts, thats actual.
It is good not to be trapped by this complete insanity. It is the same type of d
is-association that people suffer from who are in an insane asylum. The film Awak
ening depicted some of those people. There was one woman who could not walk to th

e window because the checker pattern on the floor was interrupted by a black lin
e until the doctor painted the black line into checkers. In her world the black li
ne was dangerous. The religious insanity is being locked into another type of fa
ntasy-world, where one isnt really the body and ones True Self will be free only a
fter death it is an altered state of consciousness, i.e. mentally deranged, fore
ver cut off from common sense. Vineeto, The Actual Freedom Trust Mailing List, A
lan, 6.2.1999
It is such a relief that I am free of these eerie, seductive and imaginary exper
iences, which had completely removed me from the physical senses and any common
sense. It is considered the pinnacle of religious achievement and yet the opposi
te of, and anathema to, living as a human being in this actual world. The object
ion to being here on the planet has created this insane paradise of spirit-ual i
magining where one is not this flesh and blood body, but a spirit and feeling, w
aiting for the final redemption at the death of the body.
Now there is a third alternative one can eliminate beliefs, emotions and instinc
ts and be happy and harmless instead of feeling compassionate and swanning in an
imaginary bliss. One can live in this actual, physical, magnificent universe wi
thout God but a magic that surpasses every possible imagination.
I am aware that this third alternative can only appeal to someone with a down-to
-earth common sense and a burning discontent about the tried and failed, someone w
ith guts and passion for the best.
If it appeals to you or not, is completely up to you.

10.2.1999
VINEETO: So, you are saving your pearls of wisdom because I dont appreciate them?
I am willing to learn anything that is new, but not re-hashed old wisdom that is
an obvious failure. If you can present me with something that is sound-proof an
d water-tight, meaning that it works such that it makes people happy and harmles
s, free from the instincts of fear, aggression, nurture and desire, I am more th
an ready to listen.
RESPONDENT: You couldnt begin to appreciate anything I would say, because first y
ou will judge it by your filters that you so conveniently listed below. You will
either block the meaning or choose to misunderstand whatever is said that you d
ont immediately agree with. This is called being close minded, btw.
VINEETO: So no pearls of wisdom from No 12, because it wouldnt pass my filters? D
ont you judge what people say by your own filters?
I would be interested as to what your filters are. How do you distinguish or jud
ge what you agree with or disagree with?
Close minded is another one of those dirty labels in New Dark Age language, used to
put someone in his/her place. Being a seeker, one should not be close minded. But,
you know, since I uncovered my common sense by removing all the over-riding res
trictions of feelings, emotions, beliefs and instincts I dont need to be open-min
ded or close-minded, I can simply be sensible. What is usually termed open minded
is nothing but gullibility born out of a confusion as to who and what to follow.
One is then open minded, taking on board any belief or superstition that feels rig
ht. This is giving continuous credence to the very thing that is the problem, the
lost, lonely, frightened and very cunning entity called self with its lost, lonel
y, frightened and cunning feelings.

By removing this alien entity inside of me bit by bit, the innate intelligence a
nd common sense have replaced this dubious open mindedness, confusion and gullib
ility. And I can tell you, my life is so much more sensible now, it is immense f
un, easy and delightful. And, it makes me independent of all sorts of authority
figures, their morals and ethics that I had believed and followed in the past. I
t makes me capable to re-spond to each situation afresh, according to the circum
stances, using my common sense, humour and intelligence to sort things out.
RESPONDENT: It is apparent to many on this list that you dont dialogue, only prea
ch. And you dont let this in. This is why you are boring us. You are incapable of
really communicating. Your typing, on the other hand, is superb.
VINEETO: When I started writing on this list, I had the intention and still have
to tell what I have discovered and what I am experiencing. And it is so unbelie
vably delicious that I wanted to give anyone who is interested the opportunity t
o check out something new. Now you say that I dont dialogue I think your mind was q
uite set from the very first dialogue you had with me. Vis:
[Respondent]: Ive asked some questions ... Ive read your posts ... and for me ... e
nough is enough.
Im tired of your speeches and preaching, while saying nothing. Do you truly belie
ve you are this interesting? [endquote].
Later on you said:
[Respondent]: I dont wish to comment on each of your comments. I dont feel you hea
r me. What I get back from you are the same tired projections ... your words abo
ut gurus, superiority etc. And ironically, you dont seem to understand that peopl
e are at different levels of consciousness.
But, given that you are stuck in some belief trip, this is understandable, becau
se humans cant see up very much.
On a subconscious level, you probably continue to write to this list ... so some
one will get thru to you sleepy heads. [endquote].
Maybe, being a counsellor by profession you have mistaken me for one of your cli
ents... which is maybe why you seem to keep on trying to get thru to me and feel th
at I dont hear you .
In spite those obstacles, I think we had quite some interesting and extensive co
nversations and discussions.
But I can also send you a bit of sign-language, maybe you like that kind of dial
ogue better:
(:|:) ~,~ +--+ $% (-^*-) ;-()= @ |-=-| /\/\/\__#__/\/\/\ <*_*> + {*_*} = 4 [?-?-?=
!--!***] ...
As for typing that is my profession, and then the computer has a spell-check, of
course.

12.2.1999
VINEETO: You are just kidding, are you? You wrote to Peter:

RESPONDENT to Peter: So, here we go again. Btw, It just occurred to me that you
and Vineeto might be the same person. No difference in writing styles. Anyone el
se notice this? Any photos of the two of you?
VINEETO: Your intuition must have changed. Just lately you wrote to me:
RESPONDENT: I have perceived your care, which with pure love is compassion by th
e way, in most of your posts. So my next question is How did you get stuck with
a head-fucker like Peter? ;-)
VINEETO: Should you care to investigate the facts you will find that Peter and I
have very different writing styles, as we had different experiences on the path
to freedom. What you perceive as similarity is that we both write about our dis
coveries based on facts, about the actual world. While you write about knowing and
vision based on imagined feelings or intuition a common practise in the higher lev
els of the spiritual world.
Furthermore, I have sent you a photograph, dont you remember you had even asked m
e which of the girls was me.
*
RESPONDENT to Peter: Do you get that everyone must leave this body?
PETER: No, when I die, I die, for I am this body. There is nothing to leave this
body.
RESPONDENT to Peter: Youre in for a very rude awakening Im afraid.
VINEETO: Are you maybe referring to the Ancient Wisdom of Christianity, Islam, S
hinto or Buddhism? This is what I found in their Scriptures and it looks very si
milar to your warning of the very rude awakening
[quote]: My Pure Land is not destroyed, though all view it as being burned up, an
d grief and horror and distress thus fill them to the full. Those creatures, ful
l of sin by reason of their evil karma, throughout kalpas numberless hear not th
e name of the most Precious Three. Buddha, Lotus Sutra 16
[quote]: The victorious World-renovator and his helpers... shall make the existen
ce renovated ageless, deathless, unputrifying, uncorruptible, ever-living, ever
benefiting, ruling at will. The dead shall rise up, life shall prevail indestruc
tible, and existence shall be renovated at the will of God! The worlds shall be
deathless, by the will of Right, benefiting all! Evil will stand against, but wi
ll flee away, here and there causing death to the holy and his progeny and creat
ures, but running to its death and destruction at the will of the Judge! Zarathus
tra, Avesta, Zamyad Yast 19.11-12
[quote]: Those who believe in God and repent will witness the coming of the new w
orld, and they will be able to start on the road to salvation. But those still h
eavily burdened with sin and unable to overcome their malicious ways will end th
is life in absolute misery and may find no salvation in the next. Sekai-Kyusei-Ky
o. Johrei
[quote]: The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous, and
throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. J
esus, Matthew 13.47-50
[quote]: On the day when the earth will be changed to other than the earth, and t
he heavens likewise, and they will come forth unto God, the One, the Almighty. Y
ou will see the guilty on that day linked together in chains, their raiment of p

itch, and the Fire covering their faces that God may repay each soul what it has
earned. Lo! God is swift at reckoning. Mohamed, Quran 14.42-51
RESPONDENT to Peter: And war is not a waste, it is only suffering that awakens a
nybody, so from this heightened perspective, it serves. And its not like they are
nt going to die anyway ;-)
VINEETO: Sounds like Ancient Eastern Wisdom or dis-associated cruelty again, thi
s time from the Bhagavad Gita
[quote]: For a warrior, nothing is higher than a war against evil. The warrior co
nfronted with such a war should be pleased, Arjuna, for it comes as an open gate
to heaven. But if you do not participate in this battle against evil, you will
incur sin, violating your dharma and your honour... Death means the attainment o
f heaven; victory means the enjoyment of the earth. Therefore rise up, Arjuna, r
esolved to fight! Having made yourself alike in pain and pleasure, profit and lo
ss, victory and defeat, engage in this great battle and you will be freed from s
in. Bhagavad Gita 2.31-38
*
RESPONDENT to Peter: Anyway, I do understand what causes people to kill each oth
er. It is called identification or ego, and Im afraid Gurdjieff said it way befor
e you Peter. Sorry to tell you this, old boy.
PETER: I take it that you deleted the post on the Zen Wars where the dis-identif
ication of the spiritual path is discussed.at reasonable length. A reading of hi
story will reveal that many wars have been fought at the selfish whim of politic
al, religious and tribal leaders, often against any handy enemy, as a means of e
nhancing the leaders own power, authority and greatness. Those who follow these l
eaders do so as a means of enhancing their own power, authority and greatness as
a member of a stronger group. And on, and on, and on it goes. One group against
another group.
RESPONDENT to Peter: Of course. Power crazed leaders create the wars. And their
asleep followers follow.
VINEETO: Yeah, those power crazed leaders were spurned by their gods and gurus to
come forth and defend the truth and the master just as sannyasins were called fo
rth to protect their master who endangered himself by his own aggressive strateg
ies against the American Christians. And, as you say, their asleep followers foll
ow . This is nothing new under the sun. Already Buddha told his disciples to aggre
ssively defeat the evil opponents of Buddhism
[quote]: Good Men! In order to uphold the true dharma, you must arm yourselves wi
th swords and bows and arrows even if you cannot observe the Five Commandments a
nd maintain your dignity. No matter how hard a man preaches, unless he aggressiv
ely defeats the evil opponents of Buddhism, he would not be able to save himself
and others. You should know that such a person is an idle man. Even if he obser
ves commandments and practices pure conduct, you should know, he will not attain
Buddhahood. Should a monk upholding the true dharma aggressively defeat violato
rs of the Buddhist commandments, probably they all would become angry and try to
harm him. Even if he were killed, he is worth being called an observer of the c
ommandments and a saviour of himself and others. Buddha, Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Your recurring theme on each mail [Respondent]: Meditation is to be of one mind.
[endquote].
I was always wondering how one can be of one mind since people have so many differ
ent minds. And meditation, as far as I have understood, is to put your mind aside.

Now I found where the expression of to be of one mind could have originated
[quote]: And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and
one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them. Moses 7.1
8

13.2.1999
RESPONDENT: Meditation is to be of one mind.
VINEETO: I was always wondering how one can be of one mind since people have so ma
ny different minds. And meditation, as far as I have heard the gurus say, is to p
ut your mind aside.
RESPONDENT: We usually use the word mind to mean the ego conditioned mind, the r
eactive programming. When we observe or witness this mind in meditation, we see
that it is never one. It is dualistic, at least! All the voices are there. When
we have sufficiently awakened, we can put this mind in its proper place. Then, a
nd we can effectively use it. So, coming from an evolved consciousness, one can
be in meditation (the word used as a awakened state) and being of one mind. It i
s from this space that communication happens.
VINEETO: To have a mind rather than it having us, as you so aptly say, you need to
get rid of us, not get rid of the mind.
That, in short, is the difference between spirituality and actual freedom.
Eradicating I and me from the body and brain, lets one function smoothly, sensately
and sensibly.
*
VINEETO: Theme: [Respondent]: Meditation is to be of one mind. [endquote].
Now I found where the expression of to be of one mind could have originated:
[quote]: And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and
one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them. Moses 7.1
8
RESPONDENT: How did you find that in the Bible?
VINEETO: Easy, on the Web.
The web is like the human brain on a collective scale. You can find anything the
re, a lot of rubbish and some sound information.
You can find sex, with humour or as perversion and the respective morals, you ca
n find politics in all its appearances, you can find religions of any flavour at
nauseam, listed from A to Z, you can find any kind of superstition you can imag
ine, channelling, 4th dimension, shamanism, Feng Shui, Astrology, UFOs, Doomsday,
etc, etc.
And you can find facts, scientific facts, history data, sound information and fa
scinating technology.
But one needs to apply ones own common sense to sort the silly from the sensible
and the rubbish from the useful. Only when I clean out the rubbish in my brain,

can I freely use the common sense innate to the human brain. Before that clean-o
ut 90% of my brain activity was involved in morals, feelings, beliefs, emotions
and instincts.
When I apply common sense to the quote above, I can easily see that already the
old Jews were trying to be of one heart and one mind, and have failed for 3000 yea
rs. Not only have they failed to live peace being the chosen people they have suff
ered over the centuries and now reeking revenge on others by torturing most Pale
stinians in custody. Dwelling in righteousness always comes in the same package wi
th the so-called higher consciousness of one heart and one mind the preliminary for
war.
Are you really convinced that this should be the solution to the human dilemma o
n this planet?

16.2.1999
RESPONDENT: Where do you get that I am attached to your idea of what spiritualit
y is? If you read what I said above without reading into it to find something sp
iritual (read wrong), you might actually understand that were probably saying the
same thing.
VINEETO: Where I get that your are talking about spirituality? From every single
word you write:
[Respondent]: We usually use the word mind to mean the ego conditioned mind, the
reactive programming. When we observe or witness this mind in meditation, we se
e that it is never one. It is dualistic, at least! All the voices are there. Whe
n we have sufficiently awakened, we can put this mind in its proper place. Then
we can effectively use it. So, coming from an evolved consciousness, one can be
in meditation (the word used as an awakened state) and being of one mind. It is
from this space that communication happens. [endquote].
Spirituality talks of ego and mind as the problem and leaves the soul, being, wa
tcher, Consciousness intact. It never questions the identity that one feels one is
. Spirituality believes in the spirit, in an inner world of feelings, love, compas
sion, with an inner identity, the watcher.
As I wrote to you before:
[Vineeto]: What is usually completely overlooked is that there is not only an ego c
ontrolling our thoughts, but also a soul producing our emotions and that both are
running on the fuel of our innate animal survival instincts. Both, ego and soul,
have to be eliminated in order to experience an actual freedom from the Human C
ondition. Only without the intricate system of instincts, emotions and beliefs c
an the magnificent perfection of actuality be experienced, which is then it self
-evident and obvious. Actual Freedom is neither a devastating truth nor a myster
y to be lost in but the continuous experience of this abundant life in this pure
and infinite universe, experienced through the physical senses.
*
VINEETO: To realise that we have a mind rather than it having us, as you so aptly
say, I also realised that we need to get rid of us, not get rid of the mind. The mom
ent mind is cleaned from me, the beliefs, feelings, emotions and instinctual passion
s, mind can function perfectly and sensibly, not interfered by fear, aggression,
nurture or desire.

That, in short, is the difference between spirituality and actual freedom.

Eradicating I and me from body and brain lets one function smoothly, sensately and s
ensibly as a flesh-and-blood-body only.
RESPONDENT: ... you might actually understand that were probably saying the same
thing. Is not your eradicating, dropping? or seeing the conditioned mind to go p
ast it?, or as I said... put it in its right place?
VINEETO: Why do you think we got banned from the Sannyas list? You seem to be th
e only one who still insists that you and I are talking about the same thing. An
d why do you want to think that it should be the same thing anyway? Would it be
less disconcerting what discoveries Peter and I are reporting? Is it to confirm
that you are already on the right path, just a few semantic differences?

When I say, I eradicate an emotion I mean that I go to the root of that particul
ar emotion. What I find, if I dig deep enough, is fear as part of the survival i
nstinct, the self. To question that self, including its big brother, the higher Self,
is to eventually chip away at the emotion-producing agent of this psychological
and psychic entity inside of me. Once that particular emotion is investigated, t
raced to its root and then eradicated, it has no place at all, no right place an
d no wrong place it does not exist its passionate but imaginary nature has been
exposed.
When you say you are dropping an emotion, that simply means letting the idea go in
favour of going past it to the bigger idea of becoming one, of evolving consciousnes
s, of enlightenment where you then become one with everything. This identity of t
he big Self has never been questioned before. Dropping is not the same thing as er
adicating at all. It is 180 degrees in the opposite direction to spirituality. (
see diagram 180-degrees)
Actual freedom is about being here in this physical universe only, as this physi
cal body only, perceiving as the physical senses only. There is neither god, nor
soul, nor compassion, nor witnessing, nor feeling, nor intuition in actual free
dom. There is only this abundant, magical, perfect, infinite and pure universe,
experienced through the physical senses of this flesh-and-blood-body.
Can you see the difference?
For your further clarification I post a nine point description of Richard about
actual freedom:
Richard: 1. There are three ways of experiencing the world of people, things and
events: 1. sensate (senses); 2. cerebral (thoughts); 3. affective (feelings). T
he feelings include both the affectionate and desirable emotions/ passions (thos
e that are loving and trusting) and hostile and invidious emotions/ passions (th
ose that are hateful and fearful).

2. All sentient beings are born with instinctual passions like fear and aggressi
on and nurture and desire genetically bestowed by blind nature which give rise t
o a rudimentary animal self which is being itself that human beings with their abil
ty to think and reflect upon their mortality have transformed into a me as soul (a
feeler in the heart) and an I as ego (a thinker in the head).
3. Thus there are three Is altogether but only one is actual (sensate) and not an
identity; I am this flesh and blood body being apperceptively aware. The primar
y cause of all the wars and murders and rapes and tortures and domestic violence
and child abuse and suicides and so on is the instinctual passions which give r
ise to malice and sorrow and the antidotally generated pacifiers of love and com
passion which, if sublimated and transcended, give rise to Love Agap and Divine C

ompassion. This Tried and True solution to all the ills of humankind lies within t
he Human Condition and, as it has had 3,000 to 5,000 years to demonstrate its effi
cacy, can be discarded as being the Tried and Failed.
4. I am mortal in that I was born, I live for a period of years, then I die and
death is the end, finish. The material universe is infinite and eternal and was
here before I was born and will be here after I die.
5. There are three worlds altogether but only one is actual; there is nothing ot
her than this actual, physical universe (the normal reality as experienced by 6.0
billion human beings is an illusion and the abnormal Reality as experienced by 0.0
00001 of the population is a delusion born out of the illusion because of the se
lf-aggrandising tendency of the narcissism born of the survival instincts).
6. Peace-on-earth can become apparent to anyone at all irregardless of gender, a
ge or race because the perfection of the infinitude of this spatial and temporal
universe is already always here at this place in infinite space ... now at this
moment in eternal time.
7. When I as ego and me as soul psychologically and psychically self-immolate which
is the end of being itself then the answer to the Mystery Of Life becomes evident as
an on-going existential experiencing; I am this physical universe experiencing
itself as a reflective, sensate human being; as me, the universe is intelligent
(there is no anthropomorphic Intelligence that is creating or running existence).
8. There is a wide and wondrous path to actual freedom: One asks oneself, each m
oment again, how am I experiencing this moment of being alive? This gives rise to
apperception. Apperception is the outcome of the exclusive attention paid to bei
ng alive right here and now. Apperception is to be the senses as a bare awarenes
s, a pure consciousness experience (PCE) of the world as-it-is, which happens wh
en the mind becomes aware of itself. Apperception is an awareness of consciousne
ss. It is not I being aware of me being conscious; it is the minds awareness of itsel
f.
9. The day finally dawns where the definitive moment of being here, right now, c
onclusively arrives; something irrevocable takes place and every thing and every
body and every event is different, somehow, although the same physically; somet
hing immutable occurs and every thing and every body and every event is all-of-a
-sudden undeniably actual, in and of itself, as a fact; something irreversible h
appens and an immaculate perfection and a pristine purity permeates every thing
and every body and every event; something has changed forever, although it is as
if nothing has happened, except that the entire world is a magical fairytale-li
ke playground full of incredible gladness and a delight which is never-ending.

Put succinctly: my demise was as fictitious as my apparent presence; I have always b

een here, in this actual world of sensorial delight, one realises, for it was th
at I only imagined I existed; my presence had been but an emotional/ passional play i
a fertile imagination; an emotional/ passional play which fuelled actual hormon
al substances, however, triggered off from within the brain-stem by the instinct
ual emotions/ passions bestowed per favour blind nature. Thus the psyche the ent
ire affective faculty born of the survival instincts themselves is wiped out for
ever and one is finally what one has actually been all along: a sensitive and re
flective flesh-and-blood body simply brimming with sense organs revelling in thi
s sensuous world of immediate experience. As this flesh-and-blood body only one
is this infinite, eternal, and perdurable universe experiencing itself as an app
erceptive human being ... as such it is stunningly aware of its own infinitude.
And this is truly wonderful.
Thus the search for meaning amidst the debris of the much-vaunted human hopes an
d dreams and schemes has come to its timely end. With the end of both I and me, the

distance or separation between both I and me and these sense organs and thus the ext
ernal world disappears. To be living as the senses is to live a clear and clean
awareness apperception a pure consciousness experience of the world as-it-is. Be
cause there is no I as a thinker (a little person inside ones head) or a me as a feel
er (a little person in ones heart) to have sensations happen to them, I am the se
nsations. The entire affective faculty vanishes ... blind natures software packag
e of instinctual passions is deleted. There is nothing except the series of sens
ations which happen ... not happening to an I or a me but just happening ... moment
by moment ... one after another. To live life as these sensations, as distinct f
rom having them, engenders the most astonishing sense of freedom and magic. Cons
equently, I am living in peace and tranquillity; a meaningful peace and tranquil
lity. Life is intrinsically purposeful, the reason for existence lies openly all
around. Being in this very air I live in, I am constantly aware of it; I breath
e it in and out; I see it, I hear it, I taste it, I smell it, I touch it, all of
the time. It never goes away nor has it ever been away it was just that I and/or m
e was standing in the way of the meaning of life being apparent.
Life is not a vale of tears. Richard, Actual Freedom Mailing List, No 4

19.2.1999
RESPONDENT: ... you might actually understand that were probably saying the same
thing. Is not your eradicating, dropping? or seeing the conditioned mind to go p
ast it?, or as I said... put it in its right place?
VINEETO: Why do you think we got banned from the Sannyas list?
RESPONDENT: Probably for proselytizing. And being against Osho.
VINEETO: You seem to be the only one who still insists that you and I are talkin
g about the same thing. And why do you want to think that it should be the same
thing anyway? Would it be less disconcerting what discoveries Peter and I are re
porting? Is it to confirm that you are already on the right path, just a few sema
ntic differences?
RESPONDENT: I think I know where you guys are. Ive been there. I learned to trans
form emotionality into sensation a long time ago. When I came to Osho, I found m
y heart.
VINEETO: When I say, I eradicate an emotion I mean that I go to the root of that
particular emotion. What I find, if I dig deep enough, is fear as part of the s
urvival instinct, the self. To question that self, including its big brother, the hig
her Self, is to eventually chip away at the emotion-producing agent of this psych
ological and psychic entity inside of me. Once that particular emotion is invest
igated, traced to its root and then eradicated, it has no place at all, no right
place and no wrong place it does not exist its passionate but imaginary nature
has been exposed.
RESPONDENT: So what? So now you have no feelings, no heart.
VINEETO: When you say you are dropping an emotion, that simply means letting the i
dea go in favour of going past it to the bigger idea of becoming one, of evolving con
sciousness, of enlightenment where you then become one with everything. This iden
tity of the big Self has never been questioned before. Dropping is not the same th
ing as eradicating at all. It is 180 degrees in the opposite direction to spirit
uality.
RESPONDENT: Dropping the ego doesnt bring anyone to any new idea.

VINEETO: Actual freedom is about being here in this physical universe only, as t
his physical body only, perceiving as the physical senses only. There is neither
god, nor soul, nor compassion, nor witnessing, nor feeling, nor intuition in ac
tual freedom. There is only this abundant, magical, perfect, infinite and pure u
niverse, experienced through the physical senses of this flesh-and-blood-body.
Can you see the difference?
RESPONDENT: So if you only live in the physical, who is writing to me? And why a
re you bothering to write to anybody?
VINEETO: Look, I have no idea where you are heading to in this conversation. Are
you trying to convince me that what you say and what I say are not so far apart
. Are you trying to pull me back into the spiritual camp? Or are you just contra
dicting as some kind of sport?
I have lived long enough in the spiritual world to know all its options, seducti
ons and failures. There is nothing there that would pull me back into the world
of spirits, gods and demons, dharma and karma, bliss and dread, compassion and s
orrow. I know, that where I am, in the actual world, life is far superior to any
of the time that I have lived in the spiritual realms of emotions, feelings, be
liefs and their underlying instinctual passions. So I will not budge an inch fro
m my aim to completely and irrevocably extinguish the remainder of my self, the
psychological and psychic entity in me.
You have stated clearly that becoming happy and harmless is not an interest you
take into account, and that particularly becoming harmless is not on your agenda
. For me, that is where our conversation ends. I am not out to convince you that
you should want to become happy and harmless if you dont want to. I have tried t
o convey the magnificence of living in the actual world without the colouring, d
istorting, interpreting and fettering of the self. It obviously did not appeal to
you.
Nevertheless, should you become interested at some point in time you are welcome
to cruise our website and Richards website or join the Actual Freedom mailing li
st. There is always a possibility that ones life is at some point in time not as
satisfactory as it may appear now. I have been bothering to write to you because,
who knows, you, or somebody reading our correspondence, might understand that Ac
tual Freedom is something completely new and different to the spiritual beliefs
and that it offers a genuine alternative to the failure of the spiritual practic
e in bringing peace to the world.
So, its bye from me for now. It has been great pleasure for me but I dont see any
point in continuing the silly battle of tis-tisnt sort of discussion that we had fo
r the last several times. I leave you with a description of happy and harmless f
rom Richard:
Richard: There is an unimaginable purity that is born out of the stillness of the
infinitude as manifest at this moment in time and this place in space ... but o
ne will not come upon it by thinking about or feeling out its character. It is m
ost definitely not a matter to be pursued in the rarefied atmosphere of the most
refined mind or the evocative milieu of the most impassioned heart. To proceed
thus is to become involved in a fruitless endeavour to make life fit into ones ow
n petty demands and desires.
Life is not like that ... one has only to look into the marvels of nature to see
that life-forms have arranged themselves in a myriad of exquisitely delicate sh
apes, colours, textures, qualities and character. So too has the universe gracef
ully arranged itself in regards to providing intrinsic meaning. The universe is

innately perfect and pure. It is already always immaculate and consummate. Nothi
ng dirty can breach the blameless bastions of this unimpeachable purity and perfec
tion ... even the most profound thoughts and the most sublime feelings are selfcentred. The self I is not only defiled, it is corrupt through and through. I am pe
versity itself. No matter how sincerely and earnestly one tries to purify onesel
f, one can never succeed completely. The last little bit always eludes perfectin
g. I am rotten at the very core.
There is one thing that I can do, however, to remedy the situation. I can disappear.
Psychological and psychic self-immolation is the only sensible sacrifice that I c
an make in order to reveal perfection. Life is bursting with meaning when I am no
longer present to mess things up. I stand in the way of that purity being apparent
. My presence prohibits perfection being evident. I prevent the very meaning to life
, which I am searching for, from coming into plain view. The main trouble is that I
wish to remain in existence to savour the meaning; I mistakenly think that meaning
is the product of the mind and the heart. Nothing could be further from the tru
th. Richards Journal, Article 17

24.2.1999
VINEETO: So thats what it has been all along your compassion has been wasted on m
e safe for the fact that you had fun and I had fun writing about Actual Freedom.
Look, I have no idea where you are heading to in this conversation. Are you tryi
ng to convince me that what you say and what I say are not so far apart. Are you
trying to pull me back into the spiritual camp? Or are you just contradicting a
s some kind of sport?
RESPONDENT: All of the above.
I was (compassionately) attempting to show you how stuck you are, and here you g
o in the next paragraph admitting it. I really do know: there is no teaching any
one anything unless they are totally open and totally ready to learn it; yet I d
o enjoy the play of trying. I have also enjoyed our rantings.
VINEETO: I have lived long enough in the spiritual world to know all its options
, seductions and failures. There is nothing there that would pull me back into t
he world of spirits, gods and demons, dharma and karma, bliss and dread, compass
ion and sorrow. I know, that where I am, in the actual world, life is far superi
or to any of the time that I have lived in the spiritual realms of emotions, fee
lings, beliefs and their underlying instinctual passions. So I will not budge an
inch from my aim to completely and irrevocably extinguish the remainder of my s
elf, the psychological and psychic entity in me.
Did it ever occur to you that all of the words you so generously and compassiona
tely have used describing my state of mind are applicable to yourself? New Dark
Age people call it projection blaming someone for the attributes one doesnt like
to see in human beings including oneself. I will give you a few examples of your
extensive compassionate analysis:
[Respondent]:
Projection is made up of attack and defence, firmly locked into the morals of go
od and bad, right and wrong. I have learned to see all our human heritage simply a
s the Human Condition ... the Human Condition, which is made of the genetically
inherited animal instincts we are equipped with, overlaid by the social identity
we learn and, in later years, refine into the much tooted identity, be it secul
ar or spiritual. And unless you have discovered and eliminated this Human Condit

ion in yourself, clear thinking and straight seeing of the facts without project
ion, the distorting interpretation of the self is not possible. And with clarity,
common sense, benevolence and consideration operating, who needs compassion?
When I compare my life now to my life as a spiritual seeker, I could say I am no
w driving a Rolls Royce compared to the old bicycle of spiritual methods. Who wo
uld want to swap back to the old bike, even if it is offered with compassion? Yo
u will have to book me as a failure. And, seeing that you are in the old bicycle b
usiness I can give you the information that old bicycles are pretty out of date by
now. The Ancient Wisdom of trust and surrender has been superseded by an actual f
reedom where everyone can experience the purity, perfection and magnificence of
the actual world for themselves in a pure consciousness experience, where everyo
ne can explore and discover for themselves their beliefs, feelings, emotions and
instinctual passions, and where everyone can become free for themselves. Neithe
r gurus nor counsellors are needed and they are of no use at all. They are now e
xposed for what they are power-hungry and Self-centred narcissists who use their
compassion to trap as many followers into their net as possible. As you have st
ated yourself:
RESPONDENT: And as for the term harmless, I dont care for the implications of pow
erlessness that I hear in this word. Reminds me of an image of an impotent overthe-hill codger. I prefer compassionate.

VINEETO: I have found the genuine article, I have found the Rolls Royce of Actual
Freedom. When you not only examine your ego but give particular attention and sc
rutiny to your soul, i.e. your feelings, your truths and particularly the so-calle
d good emotions of Divine Love and Compassion, then you will find lurking undernea
th the instinctual passions all humans are programmed with. Divine Love is nothi
ng but the cultivation of the good emotions instead of the bad emotions, and with th
e ego of the lower emotions gone whoops, there the self appears again, this time as
M THAT, I AM THE UNIVERSE, I AM IN ALL OF YOU I think you will recognize the terms.
Taking the third alternative to normal and spiritual you can now eliminate both
ego and soul and come into this actual world of purity, magnificence, infinitude
and perfection. But then you will end up a happy and harmless old codger, a del
ight to yourself and everyone else, but without control, magnetism, secret power
or any other mystical twaddle produced by collective imagination. You will end
up like Alan described it in a letter to our list:
[Alan]: My senses are increased a hundredfold, a thousand fold, the whole of my b
ody is jangling with nerve endings experiencing a constant influx of sensations. E
verything sounds so loud. The obviousness of perfection lies all around. It is j
ust such a delight to be here as this body, with the enormous array of sensory i
nput, which is almost overpowering, yet so simple. There is nothing complicated
here, in this moment. There is an overwhelming sense of rightness an ease of just
being here this is how life was meant to be, everything is perfect and nothing c
an possibly go wrong. I actually am the universe experiencing itself and what else
can I be wow!! Alan, Actual Freedom Mailing List, 18.2.1999
So, its goodbye from me now. We have come to the end of a sensible conversation.
Should you ever be discontented with the restriction of the spiritual blinkers o
f loyalty and pride and want to explore beyond the boundaries of the spiritual w
orld, you know where to find the description of a way out. I wish you the very b
est.

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence

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Vineetos Correspondence with Mailing List C

Please note that the links below point to the Correspondence of feeling being Vin
eeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-ofbeing Virtual Freedom. Hence most of her writings describe the experience of a vir
tual freedom and the actualism method as she understood and applied it in those ye
ars before becoming actually free.
For genuine reports, descriptions and accounts of an actual freedom please refer
to Richard, who discovered and immanently brought an actual freedom into this w
orld.

To All
Respondent No 1
Respondent No 4
Respondent No 5
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 Respondent No 22
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Respondent No 21
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To Mailing List C
Respondent No 10
Respondent No 1

Respondent No 16
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Respondent No 23
Respondent No 8
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Respondent No 4
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Respondent No 28
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Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.

Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C

Correspondent No. 16

Topics covered
Generalization, facts, the Human Condition, intelligence, psychological beliefs,
psychic world, spiritual beliefs, hope, life after death, Ancient Eastern Teach
ing, master-disciple dependency, love, soul, death is the end, divine love, ego
and soul, perfection, authority * science , fact, Gurdjieff, truth, nothing new u
nder the sun, the method to become free * collective psychic world of fear, via n
egativa, dread, denial, third alternative * Christmas girls * night -jasmine * L
iving without emotions * benevolence * malice and sorrow, the actual world, love
and compassion, benevolence an attribute to the physical universe, pure conscio
usness experience, the Human Condition, feelings, actual, perfection, God, actua
lism / Truth, feeling separation or Oneness / benevolence, infinitude, facts, be
ing different, learning from history, Akashic Records, collective feelings, drea
d-experience, psychic entity * poking holes into actualism * animal instincts, 1
80 degrees opposite, fact

12.12.1998
RESPONDENT No 10: Hello everyone, I just wondering if there is anyone on this li
st who is attracted to Peter and Vineeto? What is it you admire about their writ
ing?
RESPONDENT: What Peter and Vineeto are saying, their willingness to look at fact
s no matter about what or how painful for the ego, should be the first step for
anybody on the road to freedom. The first step and the last, as good old J. Kris
hnamurti would say.
Whenever there is pain, theres the ego; hurt defines the boundaries of the ego, t
he attachments. Hence hurt is an opportunity to know these boundaries, to get to
know oneself. Know yourself has been said down the ages by many masters.
So Peter and Vineeto are remembering us of a good thing, but at the same time th
ey are proof of the saying that there is nothing new under the sun.
Their judging the failure or success of a master, guru or teacher by the lack of
improvement in the condition of humanity as a whole is questionable. Questionab
le because it is not a fact. Their statement that love is often a cover-up for m
alice, a thin layer of varnish embellishing personality, is true of course. But
then to conclude that therefore no love at all exists is another matter. It is n
ot a fact either.
In my view, Peter and Vineeto say worthwhile things, but they present too many w
ould-be facts.
I wonder why they dont just talk about their joyful experiencing of the body and
nature, and leave it at that. As a bonus they could explain how to reach this st
ate of happiness, by all means, but to call it the only true alternative in the
same breath, the only true alternative that will work at last, as if its another
washing powder with some new powerful enzymes, washing whiter than other powders
... give me a break.

I doubt it that their way will prove to be the final answer to the human condition,
that it will accomplish what until now no other teaching has been able to achiev
e. If it were truly the only answer, then surely Richard would actually, factual
ly be the only real saviour, the only Messiah, whether he likes it or not. He wo
uld be, if not the only son of god, very close to Gods image.
By the by, its very good that Vineeto and Peter challenge lazy, sleepy Sannyasins
, their views, belief systems. For a while that is... Or I should rather say tha
t its No. 10s question that challenged me. Well, never mind...
VINEETO: I had gone into the collective psychic world of fear, the instinctual f
ear in the Human Condition, when a familiar and safe setting of ones conviction i
s shaken up.
RESPONDENT: What is easily done by you and Peter is what I would call generalizat
ion. There are people who protect their convictions, but this doesnt necessarily i
mply that all people do it. The responses that you get are not necessarily all b
ased on fear. If you would see the differences in people, you wouldnt be able do
write so easily, as you do. Generalization makes writing easy, because it is an ov
ersimplification. And oversimplification leads to confidence.
VINEETO: I am pleased that No. 10s question has challenged you into writing. I am
looking forward to our discussion. On my way to freedom in the last two years I
have always welcomed scrutiny, it helps me to sweep out the cupboard an express
ion I use to describe cleaning myself up.
What you call generalizations are simply facts. They apply to every human being. T
hats why they are called facts (what is the case, dictionary definition). You are w
elcome to question Peter or me on every fact.
Peter has written to someone a few days ago:
Peter: There is a common misconception that all human beings are unique and differe
nt, whereas we as a species are all the product of a fertilized egg, wired with
a set of survival instincts, nurtured through the first few years when our physi
cal and mental functioning develops, and then socially conditioned to fit into t
he tribe. We do develop a few individual quirks, we come in an amazing variety o
f shapes and sizes, etc. but we are all human. If you look at a forest, no two t
rees are the same but they are all trees. So all humans have the same instincts
wired in them and all humans have the same social conditioning that varies only
according to the social group one is born into. This basic programming is what i
s known as the Human Condition.
A study and knowledge of the Human Condition results in a knowledge and understa
nding of this basic program such that one is able, given sufficient intent, to b
ecome free of it. The clue to eliminating it is not to regard it as preciously you
rs only and defend it like all get out, but to acknowledge it as a common disease we
are all inflicted with. I call it a disease because this programming is the cau
se of malice and sorrow within each of us. Further, if you prepared to abandon t
he belief in a God or a someone or something else to fix you up, then you accept
that the only one who can fix you up is you. Peter, List C, No. 13, 8.12.1998
I can be so confident because I write about the Human Condition. I have seen it
working in me, I can see it working in everybody.
*
VINEETO: Well, I also found out that it does not need a psychic intuition or emp
athy to come to that conclusion. I could have reached there by straight forward
common sense.

RESPONDENT: I guess that you assume that the intellect or common sense is genera
ted by biochemical processes within the body?
VINEETO: How else? Do you assume there is a Divine Source that puts intelligent
thoughts into our brains? Intelligence is part of the normal functioning of the
brain. The problem is, that this innate intelligence, which humans have applied
to create, for instance, all the technological progress, is distorted by the mal
ice and sorrow of the Human Condition. With emotions and feelings operating one
cannot think clearly, considerably and benevolently, everybody experienced this.
Beliefs and concepts stifle intelligence because we prefer to believe and trust
an authority rather than investigating facts for ourselves. Fear and the result
ing self-centredness are the main hindrances for common sense.
RESPONDENT: When I studied psychology some years ago, for only about three month
s because its really dry stuff, the main psychology course was taught by a profes
sor who didnt believe in the psyche. The book he warmly recommended to us was tit
led Der Geist Fiel Nicht Vom Himmel (The Spirit or Psyche didnt Fall from Heaven).
The professor surely was a man of common sense, wasnt he. He really believed that
the Psyche is created by biochemistry of the body. It was a socialist universit
y. In Louvain, at a catholic university, the psychology professor believed a sou
l or psyche exists, of course. Socialists tend to be materialistic, dont they, ma
ybe because of their long struggle against the church-supported governments, and
they tend to be physical because of belonging to the working class, using their
body a lot.
VINEETO: What do you want to prove by giving me the example of two professors be
lieving opposite theories? But then, what were your conclusions of their teachin
g? What facts did they give you, what were your investigations? You are presenti
ng opposite beliefs, not facts.
As I see it, psychology in itself is based on one assumption after the other, an
d the different schools are all unable to produce valid empirical facts to prove
their theories. This is because psychology itself I have studied it for four ye
ars is trying to conceptualise, understand and change human emotions and behavio
ur. Behaviour is one thing, one can produce some empirical data on behaviour. Bu
t Sigmund Freud, Alfred Adler, Carl Gustav Jung, Erich Fromm and others were try
ing to conceptualise something that is part of the collective psychic construct,
produced in the head (or heart), feed by the instinctual passions of fear, aggr
ession, nurture and desire. From within the Human Condition, influenced by their
current concepts, beliefs, upbringing or environment the particular psychologis
t is as trapped in his belief system as are his clients. Psychology tries to pro
duce maps for the psychic world, whereas the fact is that the psychic world is a
huge construct of imagination and instincts, and can be eliminated entirely (bo
th ego and soul).
Once you have stepped out of the real world of emotions and beliefs into the act
ual world, with the self in temporary abeyance as in a pure consciousness experien
ce, you can see the root cause of human emotions and beliefs very clearly. No ps
ychology needed.
*
VINEETO: Once I saw with apperception bare awareness what I was doing, that I wa
s joining this real world of feelings and concepts, it disappeared in a pop. Now, be
ing back here, I can communicate again about this so wondrous, fairy-tale-like,
sensuous, obvious actual world...
RESPONDENT: hmmm, sounds really Osho-like

VINEETO: It is very hard to talk about something outside of beliefs to a believe

r. And I am still new in this business of describing actual freedom. I only know
how I got out of my spiritual beliefs and that it rocked me to the very core. I
have seen the psychic world from the outside like planet earth from a space-shi
p. Once you dare not to assume or imagine anything and only rely on your physica
l senses, this psychic world is seen as the imagination it is, woven by all of h
umanity since humans have lived on earth... quite a challenging thing to questio
n or leave behind.
Or do you say that Osho was not talking about transcending the body, transcendin
g sex, in order to become enlightened? Sensuous includes all physical senses but d
efinitely not the sixth sense, which is imagination.
RESPONDENT: You could call the AFH process stupid then, or unnecessary, or you c
ould be grateful that it enabled you to discover something precious. It would be
silly for you to do the AFH now, but it wasnt silly at the time.
VINEETO: I did not call the AFH process stupid. I told the story to explain abou
t postponement, and that this intense group process triggered my peak-experience
. Most probably others had those experiences in similar processes. I also said,
I then filed it away as simply one of those group-highs, and by doing this I avo
ided the full impact of it. Afterwards I went back to hoping for enlightenment,
hoping for the right man, hoping for Existence to reward me for my efforts...
*
VINEETO: With this insight that there is only now, that I live only now, and tha
t there is no heaven to go to I woke up into full awareness and aliveness. Postp
onement only brings more misery, hope is for the hesitant one who does not want
to take the first step to freedom.
RESPONDENT: very Osho-like
VINEETO: It may look like that at first glance, but Osho talks about leaving the
body, not dying. He said he would dissolve into his people, when he dies, so ther
e must be something he believed would remain of him after his bones were burnt.
His now always had the implication that there is also a life-after-death. Once I f
ully accepted the fact that life after death is a mere belief, dearly wished for b
y the psychological and psychic entity within, the very impact brought now, this
very moment, much closer.
RESPONDENT: What do you think Osho said about living here and now? Is it really
that different from what you are saying? Dont tell me he promised God or Heaven,
because I know for a fact that he didnt.
VINEETO: What do you mean I know for a
Christian or Jewish God or Heaven, but
istence, dissolving into Godliness. The
God as a quality. If I meditated enough
it in me.

fact that he didnt. Yes, he didnt promise the

he kept talking about the divinity of Ex
concept changed from God as a person to
I would reach that Godliness or discover

*
VINEETO: And this is where I see one of the main differences between the freedom
, Peter and I talk about, and the teachings of the enlightened masters of all ag
es: the concept of life after death. Eternity was a good attraction at the time, i
mproving on the notion of the Christian heaven and hell. The idea was that the s
oul was eternal, and would live on for ever and ever, evolving and in bliss, or,
in endless re-incarnations of sorting out ones karma. It offered the dream of me l
iving on for ever, even after physical death, I would continue... and it leads to

the most insidious postponement everything will be fixed with enlightenment or i

n Nirvana after death...
RESPONDENT: I dont know where you as a sannyasin got all these ideas from, becaus
e all what you are saying here are just your interpretation of what enlightened
masters of all ages intended.
VINEETO: How did you interpret all the stories about life after death, about dis
solving into the divine energy of Existence, about re-incarnation and karma? Was
nt re-incarnation one of the very reasons to become enlightened in this life-time
, to stop the wheel of endless births and deaths? It definitely was it for me.
*
VINEETO: This belief in eternity comes in many forms and disguises, but if you t
ake a closer look, you will always find that the Divine, the Melting with the Un
iverse, the Dissolution into the Greater Whole life after death are part of East
ern teaching.
RESPONDENT: Eastern Teaching... this again illustrates your tendency to generalize
. There are many different so called Eastern teachings. And certainly Osho isnt p
art of it. Youre on a sannyas-list and Eastern Teaching, or what you present of it,
is irrelevant here.
VINEETO: Ok, if you want to I can give you two quotes to ponder about:
[Mohan Rajneesh]: Never Born, Never Died, Only Visited this Planet ... His tombsto
ne.
[Mohan Rajneesh]: When I say to you that you are free, I mean that you are a God.
The Beloved/2, Chapter 10
I have come to see Oshos teaching as a modern version of Eastern Teaching. He tal
ked on Buddha, Krishna, the Zen-Masters, Zarathustra, the Sufi-Masters, Lao-Tzu,
Ramakrishna, on all the important representatives of Eastern and Western religi
ons.
But in order to question the Master after a devotional relationship of almost tw
o-thirds of my adult life, I first had to question several ingrained concepts in
me. I found the belief in authority was a big issue and a strong need, to alway
s have somebody to guide me, love me and to belong to. Surrender to his authorit
y was an easy option. There was also the belief in God or Existence, the ultimat
e and invisible authority, some (non-physical) energy outside of me and outside
of the physical universe. This energy represented the ultimate power and Wisdom.
Dismantling the need and belief in authority allowed me to stand on my own feet
for the first time in my life. What a freedom not have to react to people, men i
n particular, out of superiority or inferiority, but to be able to communicate w
ith everybody as fellow human beings! Now I am my own authority, deciding what i
s silly and sensible, using the common and practical intelligence of the human b
rain. I am responsible for every action in my life and I can acknowledge that no
w. However, this meant that from then on, I could not blame anybody for making m
e jealous, miserable, grumpy, afraid, angry or frustrated over any issue. Now th
ere was no more excuse, no more hiding place. These emotions were my reactions a
nd my behaviour, which I had to face and change in order to be free.
And then there was love. The need to be loved and the hope to become Divine Love
one day. Love for the Master made it impossible to question anything he said; I
was following him not only for bliss, but for love. And yet, so many things did
nt add up. I had needed to explore the nature of the bonds with the Master and fa

ce the fears which came along with dismantling my relationship with Him he who c
laimed to represent the Absolute Truth in the spiritual world. Once I had seen thr
ough the belief in the ultimate authority of God or Existence, I could then more
easily set out to investigate the facts of enlightenment.
You see, all those beliefs I had to tackle first in me, before Peter and I could
begin to talk openly about Osho without me being offended.
If you are ready to look for proof that Osho was in fact talking about godliness
, divinity, merging with the Universe, etc. you can send the search function thr
ough one of the discourses on the Osho-website, read without Sannyas-eyes and fi
nd out the answer for yourself.
*
VINEETO: The eternal, undying soul spoils the game of living now as the only mom
ent of being alive.
RESPONDENT: Perhaps, but if it does, this doesnt necessarily mean that the soul d
oesnt exist. Concepts may spoil the only moment of being alive (and not even this
is true, because its great fun to joke with concepts and joking is perhaps the v
ery best way of being in the moment), but the fact that some peoples ideas about
the soul makes them unhappy doesnt necessarily imply that the soul doesnt exist. I
ts just that some people do not understand, thats all.
VINEETO: Strange way to argue, I must say. Are you saying, the soul exists, and
some people dont understand it? You dont say how you know that the soul exists. Ye
s, many, many people teach, believe and fervently hope that the soul exists. Tha
t does not make it a fact. No scientist has ever seen it or weighed it and they
have gone a great length to prove the existence of a physical thing they could c
all soul or spirit. And if it is not perceivable by the physical senses, it must
be a concept, an imagination. What is your concept about the soul?
The soul is the part of the self that everybody wants to keep and nurture, and tha
t nobody has dared to question in its totality. Our identity is made up of ego a
nd soul, the one who we think we are and the one who we feel we are. In Eastern teac
hing the aim is to get rid of the ego, and one is then rewarded with universal lo
ve, the feeling of being one with everything and eternal bliss. Ones identity simply
shifts from the ego to the soul, from the head to the heart via sublimation of
the bad emotions and enhancing of the good emotions. The core of the problem, em
otions and instinctual passions are not given an ounce of consideration.
*
VINEETO: Thats where Richard shocked my out of my socks: He proposed that there i
s no life after death. You die when you die, full stop, basta, finito, extinct.
RESPONDENT: This is not a fact at all. Its a good method to become more concerned
about living now but it is not a fact. Its as you say, a proposition.
VINEETO: Could you explain, why this is not a fact to you? Have you talked to an
y dead people who have physically returned to earth and reported evidence of lif
e after death? Have you seen photographs of spirits when they returned to earth?
Spiritists over centuries have tried to provide factual evidence of what they se
e ie. imagine, but none has been able to come up with satisfying material. Life a
fter death has never been actually proven, and I see no point in taking your bel
ief as a fact. It remains a belief. To believe is to fervently wish to be true. An
d there is no doubt that humans fervently and desperately wish for an after-life
, an immortality of some kind.

*
VINEETO: When I asked Richard why he is so confidently positive about this state
ment, he replied: Because there is nobody and nothing in me that lives on, I am o
nly this flesh and blood body, there is no soul, no entity inside this body that
could live on. ...
RESPONDENT: He is not the only one who said that man has no soul; again this is
no proof that the soul is only imagination. If people pretend they have a soul w
hen they havent then, of course, they imagine, but who knows, perhaps there are s
ome people with a soul. Its not that I hope there are some, mind you, its just imp
ossible to state as a fact that a soul does not ever exist in a human being. The
only fact here is that a lot of conceptualization exists in the world.
VINEETO: I actually dont know what you mean by soul which some people have and some
dont. I understand soul as the sum of heart and feelings, human aspirations, the th
ing that lives on after the death of the ego and after physical death. Since ther
e is no physical evidence of a soul in the human body, that proves that it is a
concept and imagination a very powerful imagination as such. It is believed by a
ll of Humanity, in some form or other. Most religions have a heaven to go to aft
er death and others believe in their ancestors watching over them.
In the past have experienced glorious heartful moments and days which were fille
d with warmth and love-for-all. But living in the actual world now most of the t
ime, without the ups and downs of those soulful feelings, life is fresh each mom
ent, thrilling, wondrous, a dance and a delight.
Richard stated that there is nothing in him, neither ego nor soul, which would l
ive on after his physical death. He had become enlightened (got rid of his ego)
in 1981. But something was never quite right. So, in years of investigation he w
orked himself out of the immense delusion and imagination of the concept and fee
ling of being the soul by questioning everything that was not experienced by the p
hysical senses. It is not just a statement or a concept that there is no soul. I
t is his very ongoing experience. To make up your own mind you might want to rea
d about Richards experience on his web-site: http://www.actualfreedom/richard/art
icles/abriefpersonalhistory.htm.
*
VINEETO: But if one single man can live outside of imagination, can live without
love and emotion, then emotions and soul are not facts but collective products
of our fertile imagination and instinctual programming.
RESPONDENT: This is reasoning as good as any.
VINEETO: I found it so convincing that I had to question my own dearly held conv
ictions.
*
VINEETO: Then, the concepts of divine energy, eternal soul, Existence looking after u
s, etc, are seen as only built and refined over the centuries to keep the fear of
death at bay, to console us about the terrifying fact of approaching death.
RESPONDENT: Of course, but it doesnt prove that divine energy or eternal soul are con
cepts to all people. Generalizing again here.
VINEETO: You seem to say they are facts and not concepts for you. How? What make
s them facts for you?

*
VINEETO: It was a shock and not easy to look the fear of death in the face, but
it brought me here. Not knowing if I am alive tomorrow, I can only live this mom
ent there is no afterlife. If I dont like life now, I am the only one to change i
t. To say, as I often heard quoted, that everything is perfect as it is or, one get
s on with life and life will take care are just more disguises for the same postp
onement.
RESPONDENT: This is your interpretation of everything is perfect as it is. To me e
verything is perfect as it is, but postponement is not necessarily a consequence
.
VINEETO: First of all, you say, not necessarily. So you know about the possibility
of postponement.
Second, everything is only perfect in the actual world. Humans dont live in the a
ctual world, they live in the real world of malice and sorrow. In the real world the
y argue with, fight and kill each other, every day. Or they live in the spirit-u
al world, where they merely pretend that the real world doesnt exist and then are a
ble to say everything is perfect as it is.
*
VINEETO: I had taken all those things quoted as facts, before I met Richard, but
they could not stand the scrutiny of my discrimination. I had strong experience
s or realisations about truth, love, hope etc. and that had made it all the easier
to believe them as real I dont deny that those experiences are real. But they ar
e not actual, which means, you cannot verify them through seeing, touching, hear
ing, smelling or tasting them. They exist in the head and only in the head (or a
re felt in the heart), and they are different for everybody. A Christian sees Je
sus in a vision, a Sannyasins may hear Osho talk truth in their minds.
RESPONDENT: So youve learned, you have seen that YOU made concepts. The trouble w
as not in the words everything is perfect as it is, but in you. The trouble is not
in the teaching but in you who interpreted it. Theres no need to shit on the tea
ching as you are now or is there.
VINEETO: I had always defended the Master and blamed me. It is part of believing
in authority.
Once that belief in authority was questioned and eliminated, I could come back t
o the issue, examine the teachings of the master and the life of the master, wha
t he said, what the result was, for me, for others and for the country that had
been stricken with Eastern teachings since millennia. It revealed a totally diff
erent picture.
But everybody has to do that for him/herself. Thats all that this discussion is a
bout to twig anybody who is interested into finding out for themselves, rather t
han believing what others say...

17.12.1998
VINEETO: I agree fully with your understanding that it is very good to question
all the beliefs one has. It is the first and most important step to experience t
he actual world, which is only hidden behind all the concepts, emotions and beli
efs we have heaped on top of it. For instance, the moon was for Gurdjieff not ju
st the moon, but the place where all souls would go. How could he see the moon a

s the big piece of rock that it factually is?

RESPONDENT: Its only possible to say something within the context of some teachin
g, e.g. science. Science is limited by the sensitivity of the instruments to do
research with. The rockiness of the moon is therefore only factual within limits
. Gurdjieff said that man has no soul and that suffering feeds the moon. This ma
y very well have been factual for him even though it isnt for me.
VINEETO: First, science is not a teaching at least not until Einstein came and b
ased physics on his (maybe never provable) hypothesis.
Science is any system of knowledge that is concerned with the physical world and
its phenomena and that entails unbiased observations and systematic experimentat
ion. In general, a science involves a pursuit of knowledge covering general trut
hs or the operations of fundamental laws. Encyclopaedia Britannica
Second, I could say, because science hasnt invented the green-cheese-microscope,
it doesnt mean, the moon is not made of green cheese. How do you want to prove th
at theory wrong? According to science everything unproven is a hypothesis. So th
e idea that suffering feeds the moon is either a hypothesis or a belief, not a f
act. And so is the belief in a soul until we have invented the soul-weighing- or
the soul-colouring-machine.
And third, if it is not factual for you, why defend Gurdjieffs theory? How can a
fact in Gurdjieffs time be a non-fact today?
*
VINEETO: I spent a lot of time with Peter, had resistance at the start being a d
evout sannyasin then
RESPONDENT: When devout, theres all possibility to go to the opposite, becoming f
actual as you call it. Its the other side of the same coin.
VINEETO: Maybe you havent studied psychology long enough to know that moving to t
he opposite is not ones only option even as a psychological reaction. I was a San
nyasin, because in my understanding Sannyas was the best on offer at the time. T
he longer I was on the spiritual path, the more I was determined to become the b
est I could be at that time that was getting rid of the ego.
Upon meeting Richard, I had to admit that I had not seen everything yet. There w
as something still better on offer the purity of the actual world, not only with
out ego, but also without soul or being. Further, I discovered that applying his
method brought results within a few months the tangible results of becoming hap
py and harmless, of being able to live together in utter peace and harmony with
a man 24 h a day, every day. It is not the other side of the same coin. It is no
t an opposite belief I have come to my senses.
*
VINEETO: The first thing I had to do after 17 years of spiritual conditioning wa
s to switch my brain back on. I delighted in using my intelligence again, starte
d doubting the old, used scrutiny and discrimination to slowly question everythi
ng that I had taken for granted wisdom. What a gullible person I had been, you c
ould have told me any fairy-story of astrology and invisible energies, channelli
ng and chakras, and I was ready to believe it all!
RESPONDENT: Now youre ready to deny it all, which is the other extreme.
VINEETO: I dont have to deny it, those fairy-stories are simply not the case. The

only thing I had to do was to dare and question what I believed, to dare and live
without believing.
*
VINEETO: And then I encountered fear fear to leave the familiar fold my peers, m
y sannyasin friends and acquaintances, the womens club with their particular beli
efs and feelings, family-sentiments, love-dreams. Most of all, I was fearful to
question the authority of Osho, of God, of the divine plan behind it all, and th
e belief in authority as such. Suddenly I had to realize and acknowledge that I
am alone, standing on my own two feet, nobody is there who knows the truth and no
all-caring and all-powerful Existence is taking care of me.
RESPONDENT: So the truth cant be reached then or hasnt been reached yet. Up until
now Richard, Peter and you have not discovered the truth either.
VINEETO: I dont talk about discovering the truth. Truth is simply just another belief
, believed by many and experienced by some as emotional conviction. Truth is lik
e love and bliss, a construct of our incredibly powerful fervent imagination. On
ce you step out of imagination, truth simply disappears, and you leave your self b
ehind and step into the actual world of perfection and magic, purity and delight
. No truth needed. The actual world is already always here.
*
VINEETO: How am I experiencing this moment of being alive?
This is the core sentence and the method to all of Richards discoveries, the key
to the actual world. With this sentence you can take apart the whole of your psy
che, bit by bit, digging deeper and deeper into your unconscious. Whenever you a
re not happy now, there is something to look at. And every moment not happy, or
not investigating into the reasons of unhappiness, is a wasted moment. There is
only now, only this moment; yesterday is but a memory, tomorrow but a fantasy. I
f I waste this moment of being alive, because I am complaining about something,
or I am worried or half-hearted, it is a wasted moment of my life. It is so wond
erfully simple, so obvious and yet, with all our conditioning, beliefs, emotions
and instincts in action, it is very difficult to understand and actualize. But
now, with this method, you can examine and investigate everything that keeps you
from being happy now.
RESPONDENT: Theres nothing new under the sun.
VINEETO: Well, if this is not new for you, tell me, what are your discoveries wh
en you apply this method, every day, each time you are not happy, each time you
are proud, sarcastic, annoyed, bored, irritated, sad, resigned, cynical, resigne
d or desperate?
If that method is all too well known to you, tell me what success you had with i
t in your life. Are you happy and harmless, every day, whatever the circumstance
s? Do you live with your woman in peace, harmony and equity all day long, day-in
, day-out?
And, if it is not new, and you apply it with success, why do object to what I sa
y?
I have never come across such a radical and successful method before that can cl
ean you up completely from any identity whatsoever. Pursuing this method sincere
ly and relentless one can rid oneself completely of the psychological and psychi
c entity inside of oneself.

I assume thats why so many people object it works. It has worked for me, and I am
nobody special. I am an ordinary person, a down to earth, normal, flesh and blo
od human being, and if I can do it, anybody can do it who wants to take the chal
lenge.
You said in your mail to Peter the other day, for myself the limit is that that m
asters shouldnt be dead for more than 50 years . What do you do with the dead mast
ers then? Bury them? Delete them? Why should their guidance be as old as 50 year
s, and whats the need for any authority at all? Why not rely on your own sensibil
ity and sensate experience of this moment of being alive? After all, it is the o
nly moment you can experience being alive.

2.1.1999
RESPONDENT: I have never seen the collective psychic world of fear. Show it to m
e, prove it to me. Whether or not it exist is immaterial to me.
VINEETO: Well, you can only see it if you are not completely in it. The words in
your letter convey very clearly that you are living right in the middle of this
psychic world of fear and dread. Maybe you have your emotions so well under con
trol that you dont feel them. But your writing is self-evident in that you live i
n that grey, dead, dreadful world of no-concept, no hope, no delight, no life. I
t is immaterial to you whether it exists or not, because, from your own words, thi
s psychic world of indifference and via negativa is your only reality, all that yo
u know and live in.
RESPONDENT:
Actually Im not really interested in whether the source of our thinking is chemic
al or divine. Only observing it is worthwhile, how it ticks. ...
Im not interested in a point of view one way, or the other. Your material view is
as limiting as the spiritual one.
Freedom comes not from taking one standpoint out of two extremes, as you do, but
from taking no standpoint at all. ...
Im not a believer. ...
And it will be useless to try to convince me because Im not willing to reduce my
mind to the limited premises you propose. You can call this behaviour of mine p
rotectiveness or fear if you like, ...
Zen is via negativa, which means total negation. Its illusory to think that you h
ave the only solution or even to imagine you have a solution. ...
I didnt interpret them, but listening to them (Oshos discourses) was relaxing. The
mind came to rest, no thoughts, no concepts. The stories were to lullaby the mi
nd out of thinking. The stories were toys for the mind. ...
VINEETO: So Osho was lullabying you out of the real world into the spiritual wor
ld of no-mind.
RESPONDENT:
But really the soul is not my concern
But really life after death is not my concern.

VINEETO: If life after death is not your concern, and you are not concerned with
life here on earth (you call it illusory) then I guess you are not concerned wi
th life and living at all.
*
VINEETO: To believe is to fervently wish to be true. And there is no doubt that hu
mans fervently and desperately wish for an after-life of some kind.
RESPONDENT:
(Facts) They are not my concern. ...
Your actual world is as illusory as the real world. ...
Im not defending the master. It is called taking responsibility for ones own life
. ...
... you are illusory in being extreme materialists or actualists or whatever. ..
.
I dont think theres a point in writing to me further. I guess I cant let go of my f
ear (I say this to make it plausible to your mind). You can write me if you want
to but then I would prefer you to be more brief. It takes too much of my time t
o answer.
VINEETO: Yes, you are right, there is no point in writing to you any further. If
you guess you cant get rid of fear, then you will have to live the rest of your
life in fear and that is your choice.
But negating and trying to deny that there is now a way out of the mess which th
e spiritual teaching has put humanity in, is simply stupid and destructive.
There is a third alternative to being normal and being spiritual (hopeless). You
could be alive, in your senses and see a coffee-cup as a coffee-cup and not as
an assumption or an illusion.
The only way out of dread is coming back to here , into the actual world. You ha
ve decided it is not for you. So be it.
I have decided not to spend the rest of my life in fear and dread, and it worked
. I decided not to stop in the middle. Only the death of the psychological and p
sychic entity inside of you, which produces doubt, fear and dread, makes it poss
ible to be fully living in this sparkling, magical actual world. Nothing else is
needed but the complete extinction of the psychological and psychic entity and
nothing less will do.

28.1.1999
VINEETO: I just wanted to interrupt and distract you from what you are up to rig
ht now for a little giggle.
May you enjoy it as much as I did.

Almost actual, but factually virtual...

29.1.1999
RESPONDENT: A pity that the List server doesnt accept pictures, isnt it. Pictures s
ay more than a thousand words, hence enable one to be brief.
And yes, the ladies made me giggle too, laugh actually. I already forwarded it t
o a friend in need...
VINEETO: Oh, good, arent they cute?
Yes, I agree, and a pity also that I cannot send you the smell of the night-jasm
ine from outside my window or the dripping sound of raindrops on palm-leaves and
tin-roof, the smoothness of night air, perfect temperature, moist and soft...
So I use words to convey a little bit of it, to describe this very paradise we a
re living in. You might experience very similar smells, sounds, sensations where
you are... or different ones, but with similar delight.
Nice to hear from you. How are you doing?

30.1.1999
RESPONDENT: A pity that the List server doesnt accept pictures, isnt it. Pictures
say more than a thousand words, hence enable one to be brief.
VINEETO: Yes, I agree, and a pity also that I cannot send you the smell of the n
ight-jasmine from outside my window or the dripping sound of raindrops on palm-l
eaves and tin-roof, the smoothness of night air, perfect temperature, moist and
soft... So I use words to convey a little bit of it, to describe this very parad
ise we are living in. You might experience very similar smells, sounds, sensatio
ns where you are... or different ones, but with similar delight.
Nice to hear from you. How are you doing?
RESPONDENT: Im doing fine, thank God... Why do you say nice? After so many months I
guess Im supposed to know its not a feeling of yours, but rather a bodily sensati
on which you are able to label as niceness, isnt it. But why is it there? Or is i
t just a manner of speech, and are you sensing niceness all the time, nice to hea
r from you, and nice not to hear from you as well. Perhaps you are living in a wo
rld of no peaks and no valleys, no highs and no lows, which is nice, but not as op
posed to awkward? Or do you, being not more than a physical body, also know not so
nice sensations, which others on the list, in your view mistakenly, would descr
ibe as being offended? I mean there are offensive smells, so are there offensive m
essages as well in that material sense? Do you make distinction between nice, ni
cer, very nice, not so nice? Why would you want to share the paradise you live i
n, if you couldnt possibly FEEL like doing so? Again a purely bodily felt urge? J
ust common sense? A logical deduction that being without sorrow and malice is pr
eferable to being miserable? Why bother about others at all if you dont feel comp
assion or love or even kindness? Now, answer me privately, and take it as an exe
rcise to be brief. In due course, as a reward, you may then be able to write com
mon-sense sutras to the list as well...

VINEETO: Look, I dont know if I have disturbed your thank-god peace... If you reall
y want to know how it is possible to live without emotions, feelings and instinc
ts then maybe you can ask straight questions I have no objections to answering a
ny question. But of the above I cant make head nor tail what it is that you are a
sking or hinting at. Nice simply means nice, it is a unpretentious expression fo
r the joy to be alive and to communicate with a fellow human being. I was simply
wondering how you were doing after you disappeared from the list for a while ..
. Benevolence is the quality of the physical universe, it is neither love nor co
mpassion, neither feeling nor being. When everything of me is eliminated, the actual
orld becomes apparent. Benevolence is intrinsic to the actual world.

1.2.1999
VINEETO: Benevolence is the quality of the physical universe, it is neither love
nor compassion, neither feeling nor being. When everything of me is eliminated, the
ctual world becomes apparent. Benevolence is intrinsic to the actual world.
RESPONDENT: Benevolence is a quality of the physical universe, you say. According
to my dictionary universe means the totality of all the things that exist; creatio
n; the cosmos. So we can assume that anything physically limited in space such as
a rock, a door, a car, the moon, the sun is not benevolent. But, according to y
ou, as soon as we take it all together, as the physical universe, suddenly theres
benevolence. How can that be? This is a mystery isnt it? Can this magical and su
dden appearance be explained or understood by your common-sense?
VINEETO: There is no malice and sorrow in the physical universe. There is no suc
h thing as right or wrong, good or bad, sadness, grief, compassion, love, or any
other feeling in the physical universe. These are feelings that are in human be
ings only (and in a rudimentary form in some animals). Feelings and instincts ar
e both the product and the very substance of the psychological and psychic entit
y within the human body. So when you rid yourself from this alien entity within
the human body, when there is no malice and sorrow in this human body, the perfe
ction and benevolence become apparent. It is the Human Condition that prevents h
uman beings from being as pure and perfect as the physical universe and thus fro
m experiencing the purity, perfection and benevolence of this infinite magnifice
nce of the actual world.
RESPONDENT: Also, you, sensing this benevolence, after eliminating all emotions,
feelings and instincts, are living in a paradise and you would want others to e
xperience the same. But it isnt love or compassion, you say, oh beware me no, but
benevolence.
VINEETO: No, it is neither love nor compassion, for love and compassion are pass
ions (com-passion), they stem from the feeling of separation and loneliness. Wit
hout bad feelings there is no need for good feelings to compensate no malice, no
love no sorrow, no compassion. Compassion is sharing sorrow with other human be
ings, it keeps everyone trapped in the idea that this earth is a terrible place
to live.
Richard: Actual benevolence is the ingenuous condition of a body innocent of any
being. I wish well upon my fellow humans ... but I am not driven to bring The Tru
th to humankind with all its eventual appalling atrocities as has happened since
time immemorial. I am free from both personal sorrow and Universal Sorrow and a
m able to be considerate without the emotional and passionate involvement that c
omes automatically with being an entity. Richards Journal, Article 12
And it is simply common sense. Why should I not want everybody to share the same

paradise? Why not have peace on earth, for everybody? We are fellow human being
s. Anybody, who wants to, can do the same thing that I did and live in the same
benevolent paradise that I live in. Doesnt that make sense?
RESPONDENT: Isnt this inventing of new terms a playing with words only to separat
e yourself from other similar sounding statements made by, say, sannyasins? To e
mphasise that they are 180 degrees wrong and you are right?
VINEETO: Well, it you who insists that both should be the same thing. I am not i
nventing new terms for the same thing, I am using words to describe a different
thing. When airplanes were invented, they werent called cars. Two different words f
or two different things. Love and compassion are feelings within the Human Condi
tion, they are a well-meaning but futile attempt by the psychic entity to mimic
the actual intimacy and benevolence which become apparent when I disappear. Why sh
ouldnt it be possible that there is something new under the sun, something that a
ctually works?
It is my very experience, every day.

4.2.1999
VINEETO: I must warn you right in the beginning, that this is a really long piec
e of writing. I did not want to be sloppy and explain the subject shorter the be
nevolence of the physical universe without the superimposed human invention of a
creator or divine energy. I guess, there is always the delete button...
RESPONDENT: So we can assume that anything physically limited in space such as a
rock, a door, a car, the moon, the sun is not benevolent. But, according to you
, as soon as we take it all together, as the physical universe, suddenly theres b
enevolence. How can that be? This is a mystery isnt it? Can this magical and sudd
en appearance be explained or understood by your common-sense?
VINEETO: There is no malice and sorrow in the physical universe. There is no suc
h thing as right or wrong, good or bad, sadness, grief, compassion, love, or any
other feeling in the physical universe. These are feelings that are in human be
ings only (and in a rudimentary form in some animals). Feelings and instincts ar
e both the product and the very substance of the psychological and psychic entit
y within the human body. So when you rid yourself from this alien entity within
the human body, when there is no malice and sorrow in this human body, the perfe
ction and benevolence become apparent. It is the Human Condition that prevents h
uman beings from being as pure and perfect as the physical universe and thus fro
m experiencing the purity, perfection and benevolence of this infinite magnifice
nce of the actual world.
RESPONDENT: Vineeto, I know this by now. You didnt answer the question. It is thi
s: you, as an actualist advocate the use of common sense. You say that benevolen
ce is the attribute of the physical universe. Since the universe is infinite, we
can assume that anything limited in space, say a chair, is not benevolent.
VINEETO: The point of this conversation is that I talk about my experience. With
out the feeling of fear or power there is only benevolence around me and in me.
To convey a proof of that experience to someone who is convinced that the world co
nsists of good and bad, sorrow and compassion, aggression and love is almost doo
med to fail. To understand, one needs to contemplate the very possibility of it
being possible.
Richard put it this way: Thinking and feeling through logical imagination and ir
rational intuition are the two tools that everyone has been taught to use to con

duct the affairs of their everyday life: they are not at all appropriate for unc
overing the perfection that they are searching for. There is an unimaginable pur
ity that is born out of the stillness of the infinitude as manifest at this mome
nt in time and this place in space ... but one will not come upon it by thinking
about or feeling out its character. It is most definitely not a matter to be pu
rsued in the rarefied atmosphere of the most refined mind or the evocative milie
u of the most impassioned heart. One needs to be nave to think that this universe
has an inherent imperative for well-being to flourish; that it has a built-in b
enevolence available to one who is artless, without guile. To the realist the wor
ldly-wise this appears like utter foolishness. After all, life is a vale of tears a
nd one must make the best of a bad situation because one cant change human nature; an
d therefore you have to fight for your rights. This derogatory advice is endlessly
forthcoming; the put-down of the universe goes on ad nauseam, wherever one trav
els throughout the world. This universe is so enormous in size infinity being as
enormous as it can get and so magnificent in its scope, how on earth could anyo
ne believe for a minute that it is all here for humans to be forever miserable i
n? It is foolishness of the highest order to believe it to be so. Surely, one ca
n have confidence in a universe so grandly complex, so marvellously intricate, s
o wonderfully excellent. Richards Journal, Article 17
That is where the peak-experience comes in. You might remember a moment or a bri
ef period when you felt neither fear nor love, neither sorrow nor compassion, bu
t a startling at-easeness and clarity, as if seeing this magnificent world for t
he first time with open eyes. In such a moment of purity, when the self and its ed
iting and distorting emotions are temporary absent, one can experience this very
obvious benignity and benevolence of the actual world.
Now to your question:
RESPONDENT: ... you, as an actualist advocate the use of common sense. You say t
hat benevolence is the attribute of the physical universe. Since the universe is
infinite, we can assume that anything limited in space, say a chair, is not ben
evolent.
VINEETO:
Maybe you can see it from the other side in the physical universe there is neith
er good nor evil; both good and evil are values of the Human Condition the basic
instincts of aggression, fear, nurture and desire, overlaid by our identity. Remo
ve that construct and what you are left with is neither good nor evil, but a ben
ign and benevolent physical actuality. But as we are all inflicted with the Huma
n Condition, we perceive the world only in terms of human emotions, interpreting
everything according to the way we have been programmed and taught, according t
o morals and ethics, fear, love and hate.
Take rain as an example somebody might find it beautiful, another feels sorrowfu
l, another angry when a rainy day is disturbing his plans. Everyone has an emoti
onal interpretation, a self-centred reaction. Rain is just rain, in itself benig
n and benevolent. It is benign in that it intends no harm, and it is benevolent
in its quality of bringing nourishment and delight, the delight you experience w
hen you yourself are benign.
RESPONDENT: So why is it that when all physical objects are taken together as a
physical universe, suddenly benevolence appears. This is beyond my common sense.
Moreover, benevolence isnt physical, is it.
VINEETO: To understand that benevolence is physical you first have to understand
the term actual. Actual means not merely passive. It describes the experience that
nothing in this physical universe is dead, things are continuously evolving and
changing. A seed grows into a carrot, when I eat them they turn into my skin, fl

esh, bones and brain. A timber table has its own life from seed to tree to timbe
r to crafted furniture to aged wood and then it is deteriorating into soil. The
continuous movement is a physical one there is nothing meta-physical in it. It n
ever stops, never ends.
Benevolence is the intrinsic movement of the physical universe to be its best. A
tree grows the best way it can, using whatever resources are available. Animals
have an instinctual capacity to ensure the survival of the fittest, the stronge
st, the most adaptable. Vegetation and animals on this planet have evolved from
the simplest to the most complex. Human beings with our incredibly refined abili
ty to think and make sense of the world are the only intelligent species of the
physical universe.
This very computer is a visible outcome of the human brain, with colour-screen,
background, sound, storage capacity and all its gimmicks. But this human brain i
s still restricted and distorted by our animal instincts in the primitive brain.
The benevolence with its urge to be the best it can be has now evolved to a sta
ge where it is possible to break free of the animal instincts, of the Human Cond
ition. Fed by our intent to be the best we can be the brain can fix itself up, i
t can re-wire itself and eliminate the redundant instincts altogether. There is
no divine, mystical or ethereal energy doing it, the urge to be its best is a ph
ysical quality of the universe. To put the idea of God into this obvious perfect
ion and purity is to completely miss the point of the very magnificence happenin
g around us all the time. Should you want to read a bit more on this issue, Pete
rs chapter Universe and Evolution explain these fact a bit deeper, and Richard has wr
itten about it at length in his journal and correspondence.
*
Richard: Actual benevolence is the ingenuous condition of a body innocent of any
being. I wish well upon my fellow humans ... but I am not driven to bring The Tru
th to humankind with all its eventual appalling atrocities as has happened since
time immemorial. Richards Journal, Article 12
RESPONDENT: So actualism is not The Truth after all?
VINEETO: No, actualism is not The Truth. The Truth is an invention as part of the
Human Condition. There are, in fact, many variations of The Truth the multitude of
religious wars are ample and passionate expression of those variations ... actu
alism is a tried and tested way of being here in the world as it actually is ...
stripped of the veneer of reality that is super-imposed by the psychological an
d psychic entity within the body. And actualism is not a vision or belief, it is
simply an accurate description of the actual world of sensual delight.
*
VINEETO: I am virtually free from both personal sorrow and Universal Sorrow and
am able to be considerate without the emotional and passionate involvement that
comes automatically with being an identity. And it is simply common sense. Why s
hould I not want everybody to share the same paradise? Why not have peace on ear
th, for everybody? We are fellow human beings. Anybody, who wants to, can do the
same thing that I did and live in the same benevolent paradise that I live in.
Doesnt that make sense to you?
RESPONDENT: No it doesnt. As an actualist, you are a body, nothing more, and are
therefore limited in space. Benevolence is the quality of the physical universe
which is infinite. Hence you couldnt possibly be benevolent or considerate yourse
lf.
VINEETO: The feeling of being limited and separate comes from the alien psycholo

gical and psychic entity inside each human being. To overcome this feeling of se
paration and limitedness Eastern spirituality teaches to stop thought and to ident
ify solely as the feeler in the heart. The resultant oceanic feeling of Oneness, Unit
y and Wholeness gives rise to the misconception that the separate self has been eli
minated. As a matter of fact, the separation has only been bridged by a connectio
n to the other through the feeling of Love and Compassion. But the very problem,
the separate (limited) psychic entity of the feeler is still very much alive. It i
s the psychological I and the psychic me, the alien entity possessing this body that
ake me feel separate and limited in the first place. Without the self there is nob
ody to be separate, and I experience the actuality, benignity and benevolence th
at is already present in the physical universe.
You know, when I first realised that this universe is actually unlimited, vast,
endless, without borders, I also knew that there is no place where gods could be
there is nothing outside this physical universe, there cannot be, by the very m
eaning of infinite. Have you ever gone to the NASA-site and looked at the horsenebula, the neutron-stars, the cluster-galaxies, the earthrise seen from Apollo
circling the moon? http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/
We are all made from the same stuff, physically, the stuff of the universe! Or h
ave you ever looked at the actuality of a simple china coffee-cup? The texture,
the colour, the design, and then considered the raw materials for it they have d
eveloped on this planet for millions of years until they were discovered and man
ufactured into this simple coffee cup. The machines involved, the tools, the tra
nsport, ... This cup was manufactured somewhere on this planet, shipped to this
country, driven to the shop where I bought it from, handled by many people... Th
e universe is all one big happening, everything linked to something else, all ha
ppening at this very moment nothing is merely passive. Whichever direction you l
ook, there are physical wonders upon wonders, once the ego-centric and soul-centr
ic shackles are taken off ones senses and brain.
*
VINEETO: Well, it is you who insists that it should be the same thing [benevolen
ce and compassion]. I am not inventing new terms for the same thing, I am using
words to describe a different thing. When airplanes were invented, they werent ca
lled cars. Two different words for two different things.
RESPONDENT: Likewise it could be said that it is you who wants it to be differen
t. If you insist on being different you may end up creating another movement thu
s adding to the division in the world and hence intensifying atrocities already
there.
VINEETO: It being different and me wanting it to be different are not the same thing
. It is different and that is a fact. Me objecting to that fact would simply be si
lly. To acknowledge the fact that compassion is a feeling of me within the Human C
ondition and that benevolence is a quality experienced with me absent is anathema
to me. It is not something I would want. Actualism is not a movement and never can b
e, only individual people can clean themselves up and discover the actual world
for themselves. Everybody has to do it for him/herself. In actualism, power and
compassion simply do not exist, and they are very ingredients needed for atrocit
ies to happen. No passions, no wars.
*
VINEETO: Love and compassion are feelings within the Human Condition, they are a
well-meaning but futile attempt by the psychic entity to mimic the actual intim
acy and benevolence which become apparent when I disappear. Why shouldnt it be poss
ible that there is something new under the sun, something that actually works? I
t is my very experience, every day.

RESPONDENT: First: if something actually works, this doesnt prove the failure of
everything else.
VINEETO: No, but it proves its superiority to everything that does not work.
RESPONDENT: It may be possible that something new appears, but then how are we s
upposed to know?
VINEETO: You will have to check it out for yourself after all, to simply believe
what everyone else tells you is to be gullible to the extreme. By the way, did
you know that the word gullible is not in the dictionary?
RESPONDENT: Actualists claim that they never lived before and will never live ag
ain afterwards. So whatever they know about past achievements of man comes out o
f books which doesnt cover all of history and is an interpretation of the writers
.
VINEETO: Not only me or the actualists, nobody has lived before or will afterwards
they may imagine that they are eternally alive as ethereal spirits, but that is
only an imagination born out of the fervent wish to be immortal. Therefore all
the Truths perceived from eternal souls, past lives, divine visions, etc. are a de
lusion (an illusion born out of an illusion).
You are right, everything that is said or written is interpreted and perceived t
hrough the filters of the Human Condition. But nevertheless, one can sort out th
e facts about the past achievements of man from his beliefs and interpretations.
Without the self, which is responsible for the distortion, one can sort facts fro
m fiction. I discovered me, the believer now the very act of believing is impossib
le.
Your next question is a chapter by itself. Now we come to the last bit of the fa
scinating discussion. You know, I delight in the challenge your questions give m
e, finding the right description ... maybe you understand what I talk about. I h
ave not written about this before, although Peter and I have talked about it a l
ot, but I had not been as concise as in writing to others. You wanted to know wh
y I said: Nice to hear from you. Well, I am having a great time. How bout you?...
RESPONDENT: I dont think you read Akashic records, do you?
VINEETO: Yes, I have been tapping into those Akashic Records when I still lived in
the psychic world, and I have been studying the phenomenon as such on my way to
freedom. It is a fascinating subject. As I have seen it, Akashic Records is anoth
er word for the whole of humanitys beliefs, the whole of Ancient Wisdom. For some
reason this collective belief is accessible to whoever expands his or her ambit
ion and search in the direction of collective beliefs and feelings.
Nevertheless, those Akashic Records are nothing but humankinds collective imaginati
on with millions of details and variations. They are the whole of the atavistic
beliefs and, as such, an intrinsic part of the Human Condition. In that collecti
ve psychic world one finds Universal Sorrow with its opposite Compassion and Uni
versal Dread with its opposite Bliss. Those feelings, when one taps into them, a
re very powerful and convincing. You have probably experienced them yourself. Th
ey seem so all-encompassing as if there has never been anything as compelling an
d true as this experience. So powerful as to be convincingly real one feels that
one has discovered the Hidden Secrets of Humanity that All has been revealed! T
hat is simply due to the nature of the collective.
And yet, these compelling feelings and thoughts are not actual. They only exist
in the head (or heart). The moment I become aware of what is happening and, as a

result, stop feeding them, they shrink into normal size emotions and eventually
die away. Here is a bit that I wrote when I had an experience of Universal Drea
d if you are interested... The desperate feeling of being forever trapped in the
psychic world that I experienced during that dread is summed up in the saying t
hat you keep quoting: There is nothing new under the sun.

[Vineeto]: Watching a film on WW II, I was completely overwhelmed by the feeling

of the collective sorrow, guilt, depression and dread that made up the dark part o
f the German soul. The feeling became so bizarre and threatening that I started to
desperately look for something to bring me back here into the actual world. At
the same time I was curious to experience and explore this new intensity of feel
ing. I seemed to be standing at the edge of an immense abyss of hell, which eman
ated all of the terror and dread of humanity, stretching endlessly into a grey d
ead infinity with no hope and no way out, ever.
My eyes were searching for something physical to anchor on. I stood at the windo
w, repeating to myself, this is a fence, this is grass, this is a flower. The brig
ht redness of the bougainvillea outside in the garden penetrated a little into t
his powerful magnet of dread that was threatening to swallow me for eternity.
Above the abyss of dread appeared enlightenment, seductively blinking, promising
bliss as the solution to this overwhelming hopelessness and sense of evil. But as
I had seen through the illusion the enlightenment option only a few days before
, I was not convinced to go down that land of imaginary bliss I wanted freedom f
rom illusion, any illusion.
So I fixed my eyes on the red flowers, until slowly, slowly the dread lost some
of its power and turned into the familiar feeling of fear. But it was far from b
eing over! I started to look for more actuality, longing for the taste of coffee
in my mouth, for sounds in my ear and wind on my skin. Nothing else would get m
e out of this powerful collective and atavistic passionate dream. Peter had told
me about a similar experience that he had had just a few days earlier and had s
een that there is no solution to be had in feeling everyones dread, everyones hope
lessness.

So I activated all my willpower to manoeuvre myself back into the physical world
of the senses, where neither dread nor enlightenment exist and I eventually suc
ceeded. The experience left me shaking for another day, and I am glad to know th
at the door marked dread is as much a dead-end-road as the door marked enlightenmen
t. Quite a Rocky Horror Picture Show, just more real and yet, all happening insid
e ones own head! Vineeto, Exploring Death and Altered States of Consciousness
This drama was one of the many that I encountered when dismantling the psychic e
ntity in me, the very who I thought and felt I was. It is an enormous drama, playe
d out on the stage and along the script of humanitys past. The more the self felt e
xposed and threatened, the more the drama changed from being personal into being
felt as the vastness of the collective psyche. It was an incredibly fascinating
time, discovering the emotionally compelling, yet dreamlike fantasy world that
the Human Psyche is capable of producing. As one piece after another of the psyc
hic construct fell off me, it simultaneously removed another layer of the dampenin
g and distorting veil that had covered my physical senses. The colours are now m
ore vivid, the sounds multi-layered, the skin awake to feel the temperature and
consistency of the air, the tiny hairs on the forearm being touched by the soft
breeze, everything is alive, throbbing, delighting in the smorgasbord of the une
nding sensual pleasures that this world presents.

Everybody teaches, believes and hopes that love and compassion are the remedy fo
r misery and hate, and nobody told us that those good emotions are as much part of
the disease as the bad emotions. To free oneself from the whole disease of the Hu
man Condition, the Psychological as well as the Psychic World, is to arrive in t
he actual world of people, things and events. A flesh-and-blood body innocent of
any being whatsoever is benevolent, free of both good and evil, delighting each m
oment in the infinite magnificence of being here and being alive.
Wow, what a big loop that was from the Akashic Records back to the benevolence o
f the actual world I am still catching my breath. I really enjoy this conversati
on. Tell me what you make of it.

6.2.1999
VINEETO: Now we come to the last bit of the fascinating discussion. You know, I
delight in the challenge your questions give me, to find the right description .
.. maybe you might understand what I talk about.
RESPONDENT: The last bit indeed. And I do understand... It was perfectly clear t
o me from the very beginning that my pertinent questions would only incite you t
o plug the many holes in the Ark of Noah of actualism. As a matter of fact I may b
e mentioned in the history books to have been at the cradle of actualism as one
of its founding fathers, especially if they are written by jokers like No. q, but
what to do... As for your posts they are lengthy indeed, something one expects m
ore from chapters in a book than from messages to a list. I will have to read th
em some other time if at all. But then others more in tune with actualism may re
ad them, to their advantage or not, I leave this for them to decide. No doubt th
ey will ask you many more questions, so you can look forward to some more fascina
ting discussions.
VINEETO: Ah, so the name of the game is asking pertinent questions to poke holes in
... actualism is this the pirating game that No. 26 was talking about? It remind
s me of the game we played as kids, we called it sink the ship blindly shooting into
the others territory of imaginary warships. The only thing I dont understand is w
hy you dont even bother to check if you have sunk the Arc of Noah you dont read the
answers. So its blindly shooting and no communication a strange pirating indeed.
I had taken your questions for genuine interest and answered accordingly explain
ing something radically new and different to both normal and spiritual. Since actual
ism is not a vision or belief, philosophy or movement, but simply an accurate de
scription of the actual world of sensual delight, it has no holes only delights th
at have not been described before.

8.2.1999
RESPONDENT to No 23: If you want Peter to go to his own list, its perhaps not the
best policy to start discussing the validity of his achievements on this list,
or is it. I dont want to exactly define what happened to him, but the impression
I get from actualism is, that it is a good means of becoming at odds with the re
st of the world, while at the same time interpreting this as proving ones right.
This seems to be a mental strategy, to feel more justified the more resistance a
n actual attitude provokes.
VINEETO: You obviously decided make your points about me now via No 23.
When you say mental strategy I assume that you refer to actualism as being not affe
ctive, as in eliminating emotions and feelings in order to experience the actuali

ty of the physical world. What your impression overlooks is that there are three
ways to experience the world: cerebral (mental), affective (feeling) and sensat
e (through the senses). Actualism is the experiential understanding that nothing
physical is merely passive; the personal experience of the universe experiencin
g itself as a sensate (sic!) and reflective human being as opposed to a cerebral
or affective perception. Therefore both of your impressions of it being a mental
strategy and of it evoking a feeling in me as in feel more justified are false.
RESPONDENT to No 23: Actualism feeds on resistance, isnt it. Discussing with P &
V always turns out to be a confrontation of two different worlds, two continents
pushing against each other with actualists always managing for the opposing con
tinent to slide under theirs, pushing it upwards; I guess that to be on top is a
n indication of superiority, and must really feel good.
VINEETO: Actualism doesnt feed on resistance but, as it is a different world to the
spiritual-feeling world, it certainly provokes resistance as it offers an alter
native that goes against everything that has been taught as wisdom up to now. It
is non-affective and non-cerebral, has no beliefs, no spirits, no soul, no life
after death and to top it off, it makes you aware of the fact that every human
being is born with primitive animal instincts ... brrr, and who wants to hear th
at! And yet, as you have noticed, facts are superior to beliefs and common sense
, with its capacity to distinguish between silly and sensible, is superior to an
y morals of good and bad. Furthermore, a direct experience of the magic and magn
ificence of the physical world is far superior to any affective experience, and
being happy and harmless, as the direct result of the elimination of self, beats e
nlightenment by a country mile. Just facts. It is not merely feeling good, it is s
imply living perfection.
RESPONDENT to No 23: Its strange how P & V constantly misunderstand; Vineeto, e.g
. asked me in her last missive why I didnt want to read it, to see whether or not
I had succeeded in sinking the Ark of Noah of actualism. Apparently I failed to m
ake her understand that The Ark of actualism can never come to the surface in the
first place, unless discussion continues. I tried to indicate to her that pertin
ent questions couldnt possibly sink the Ark if she continued to diligently use th
e impact of them to plug up the holes already present, because the opposite woul
d happen: it would come afloat.
VINEETO: As Peter already pointed out in the last mail that Anyone of spiritual c
onviction is so far from having the ability to apply common sense that for them
to even use the term leaves me gasping in incredulity. Therefore misunderstanding
is bound to happen. And one thing you obviously fail to understand is that actu
alism is an accurate description of the actual world of sensual delight. What yo
u call holes already present is simply a result of the blinkers of the self that eve
ryone is wearing, be they aware of it or not. It prevents one to see what has al
ways been right under our noses.
RESPONDENT to No. 23: Asking pertinent questions only refines [Vineetos] system o
f thought, it seems, to the point of eventually becoming infallible. Now it is t
ypical and for the mind very appealing to try and create such a system of though
t, isnt it. And who would want to further participate in that?
VINEETO: Actual Freedom is infallible because it is actual and not a system of t
hought. How can this rain pouring down be fallible, how can the wind rustling th
e leaves be fallible, how can the clicking of the keyboard be fallible, how can
the taste of liverwurst and cucumber pickles in my mouth be fallible it is already
here, sensately actual. Human beings, with their clouded perception of feelings
, emotions, beliefs and instincts the self are unable to experience the universe i
n its abundance, magnificence, purity and perfection. As you can see by the reac
tion on this list it is obvious that to acknowledge those facts and to question
dearly-held beliefs and feelings is not appealing for the mind at all nor for the

heart.
The very fact that there is a method that works that eliminates the self completel
y and not merely transcends it into a grand Self makes it non-appealing to people
who are keen to keeping their self intact. You are right here who would want to fur
ther participate in that? Being the universe experiencing itself as a human being
once experienced is so blindingly and obviously superior to anything else that
I have ever come across in my spiritual search.
So much so that I am ready to sacrifice all that I am to establish a peace on eart
h for myself and prove it possible for anyone who may be desperate and daring en
ough to become free. Life is not a vale of tears and one can change Human Nature
. Now there is something new under the sun. To insist on believing that it is not
possible is utter foolishness.
A fact is a fact as in what has really happened or is the case; in fact rather th
an theory, the fact of the matter is; something known to have happened; known by
actual experience or observation Oxford Dictionary
A fact is a fact, just as a cow is a cow see attachment for better understanding
. =>

RESPONDENT: For Aussies, of course, being upside down, spring is autumn and summ
er is winter and vice versa.
VINEETO: Yep, youre sure right here. I am enjoying a wonderful rainy season, mois
t and skin temperature, wind off the coast and interspersed with the loveliest s
unshine. Specially after heavy rains all the leaves glitter freshly washed in th
e sun, like diamonds sparkling all over and the birds have a special outburst. I
t is truly a wonderful place in this subtropical paradise and now, that there is
no Sannyas list to write to I wonder what I am going to do next? Can only be th
e next pleasure coming along.

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===
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c-corr17.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of

-being Virtual Freedom.

Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 17

Topics covered
Confidence * disciple hood * Zen at war, war deaths, the Hitler in me, blaming,
the Human Condition, Little Prince of Saint Exupry * Earthlings , spiritual teach
ings of dis-identification, instinctual root of wars, music, eliminating the self,
peace

10.12.1998
RESPONDENT No 10: Hello everyone, I just wondering if there is anyone on this li
st who is attracted to Peter and Vineeto? What is it you admire about their writ
ing?
RESPONDENT: I have enjoyed their writings and subscribed to their mailing list.
They have talked with confidence. I like any kind of confidence.
VINEETO: There are two options about someone being so confident as to take on a
hundred objections and to talk about something so unpopular as changing yourself
...
Now I am searching for the words to describe this actuality in as concise and as
accurate words as possible. I only write to trigger such an experience in whoev
er reads my words, to trigger maybe a peak-experience or a clear memory of it an
d then you can find out for yourself what are the facts and what are the beliefs
and concepts distorting and interpreting the facts. Thats all.

14.1.1999
RESPONDENT: I have enjoyed your writings. But only one thing has been questionab
le to me. Its about being disciple of Osho. As far as I have understood, you see
m to had been a disciple of him to get something, Enlightenment, actual freedom,
or anything you can call. It sounds a kind of bargain to me. It is very strange
compared with my experience of being a disciple of him. You are now OK. Its good
. But I think being disciple of Osho is not what you have experienced while you
were a Rajneeshee.
RESPONDENT No 4 to No 17: Yes, I agree with you on this, that being with Osho to
get something is a bargain. It becomes a search for yourself outside yourself.
How can Osho, or any master, give us what we already are, what we already have?
My experience of being a disciple of Osho is that he has shown me my identificat
ions with what is not me and he has shown what it takes to loosen these identifi
cations so that more and more space inside is left untouched by the world. In th
is space meditation grows. It is an ever-on-going process.
VINEETO: For me it has always been clear that I went to India and became a disci
ple of Osho to get something freedom, peace, happiness, understanding of life, to
be loved and to become enlightened once I heard about it I equalled it with the
goal of my search for freedom, peace and happiness.

Otherwise, why should a 26 year-old woman leave a wealthy country, her respectab
le job, her friends and a loving family to go to India to a country so stricken
with poverty that it makes one weep every time one sees a human being, a country
whose cities are so filthy that you can hardly breathe, a country run by corrup
tion, an ancient brutal cast-system and all its devastating implications? Why sh
ould I go there, if there was not something that I hoped to get?
Of course it was a bargain. I was there for very selfish reasons. I was hoping t
o learn something to have a better life than the one I left behind in the West.
I dont know what has attracted you, or you, to become a disciple? I am intrigued
to know.

9.2.1999
RESPONDENT: You are very energetic and mechanical. Its for me fucking unbelievabl
e. Energetic and Mecanicallllll??????? You both fucking mind-fuckers are like un
believable human-like computers!!! If you are human-beings. You are beyond my im
agination.
I suspect there is sure to be someone who have written these Marvellous computer
programs called Peter and Vineeto. I am no kidding in this part. hehehe.
I am really suspecting very highly. BTW, I am fucking jealous of your descriptio
ns of the Actual Freedom state. I wanna get it. But I dont want to eliminate fuck
ing egoistic selfish arrogant, harmful, full of anger and sorrows and depression
and love and hate and fear and pain and boredom and darkness, doubtful, heavy,
serious, believing, prejudiced, lonely, fucking full of craps of desires, relent
less, tense, cowardice, ugly Ego, miserable psychological entity... In short I l
ove my nut-mind, hehehehe.
(But shit! I wanna fucking this Actual Freedom without eliminating I) (UUUUU I wan
na drugs, uuuuuuuuuu UUUU Help me Osho. If you still have power after your death
, secretly. uuuuuuuu).
If in case of miracle you really are humans, I am really fucking surprised and e
xited to see and be friends of you. I wanna fucking say to my friends very proud
ly that I KNOW Persons like Spock really! They are not imaginary but real. I fou
nd them, I know them. I met real aliens who look very much the same as humans. M
y friends will be sure to envy me and many around me only frown.
VINEETO: What a funny way to say I dont wanna change. Are you from Sirius, or the P
lejades or maybe the Little Prince from Antoine de Saint-Exupery, who tends his
rose and his monkey-bread-tree on his faraway little planet and now you are wait
ing for an other-worldly power to help you to be happy with your ego that you so
excellently described?
It seems to me that Peter and I are the only Earthlings here on the list, saying
what a wonderful planet this can be without the shackles of the Human Condition
.
It would be all very amusing, if it wasnt for the fact that people continuously f
ight and kill each other. I take it that your passionate writing is in response
to the book review of Zen at War (http://www.darkzen.com/) that Peter mentioned to
No 13, because in subject heading you wrote: No 13 re Zen.
Reading of the extensive and systematic involvement of Zen masters and monks in

war-crimes has shocked me and I guess it has shocked you as well. Here there is
another description of what humans do to humans, always calling the other one th
e inferior race, an animal, inhuman, heathens, fiends and dangerous enemies to j
ustify the ferocity and cruelty that is displayed in wars, collective acts of in
stinctual aggression. 160 million people were killed in wars this century alone,
and those 160 million include the 350,000 Chinese of Nanking, the 6 million Jew
s of WW II, the 800,000 German and 1.1 million Russian soldiers in Stalingrad, t
he 800,000 Tutus in Rwanda, the 100,000 Muslims and Serbs in Bosnia, the hundred
s of thousands dead on both sides of the 40 years of Cold War and all the others
that died for country, religion and ideology.
Watching on TV the ongoing fighting and suffering in shocking pictures and learn
ing about the enormous numbers of victims, I cannot turn away any more from the
facts as I could years ago, I cannot invent a karmic reason for all the suffering,
or pretend it is only the fault of the leaders it is all too obvious that these
ongoing atrocities are due to the survival instincts of fear and aggression, wh
ich resides in each of us. Just feeling guilty or sorry for the people is a hope
less, useless and gutless avoidance, a head in the sand attitude.
The moment I dared to acknowledge these bare shocking facts, I had only one solu
tion and that was to find the source of fear and aggression in me and to eradica
te it in me utterly and completely. This is the only way I can make sure that I
will never participate in violence, no matter what the circumstances, and that I
, for one, can be a non-contributor to the pervading violence on the planet. I i
nvestigated and eliminated in myself the very source that drives human beings to
be so horrendously cruel, devotionally obedient and desperately aggressive the
very survival instinct that prevents people from acknowledging and treating each
other as fellow human beings.
As I have said to No 1 before:
[Vineeto]: I found the Hitler in me after I realised that I would have killed for
defending my master and my devotion for him with the same passion that Germans h
ad when they marched to conquer and save the world. Hitler simply played on the in
stincts of Germans in a way that they followed him and that they were ready to d
ie for him, for their country, for their Christian belief, for their Arian race
exactly as Osho played on my and everybodys instincts so that I was ready to kill
and die for Him on the Ranch.
There is no point blaming somebody else for my misery or suffering, I am made of
the same stuff as any other human being, I am equipped with the same software o
f instincts, conditioning and sense of self. And I can do something about it. Afte
r I recognised and acknowledged the Hitler in me as well as the follower in me, it l
eft such an impact that I was determined to eradicate these aspects of the Human
Condition in me.
And I succeeded. There is not a trace of nationalistic or religious conditioning
left today. And I can see this conditioning and the underlying instinctual pass
ions operating in everybody the Human Condition with different labels, for diffe
rent reasons, but nevertheless as power and aggression, fear and willing obedien
ce. When it comes down to the animalistic instincts of fear, aggression, nurture
and desire, there is no difference between a German and a Jew, an Indian and a
Muslim, a Serb and a Rajneeshee, a Japanese or a South African. Everybody, witho
ut fail, is inflicted with this disease the Human Condition. Vineeto, List C, No
1, 26.1.1999
I remember you writing that you visited the City of Peace, Hiroshima. You wrote:
RESPONDENT: When I walked around the Atomic Dome, I felt so much energy of peace
. After the total disaster, which was the culmination of Mans tendency of fear an

d fighting, Hiroshima has resurrected again. <...> I think we are now under the
World War 3rd. Love and peace vs. fear and aggression. We vs. we and they.
VINEETO: It is the ongoing suffering and fighting that gave me the intent to era
dicate the self which is responsible for fear and aggression. The only way to chan
ge the world is to change ourselves, individually, to become happy and harmless,
freed from instinctual passions, beliefs, feelings and emotions. Nothing to fig
ht for, nothing to suffer about, I can have peace-on-earth for myself and, as su
ch, contribute to world-peace in the only way possible.
But for that, one has to self-immolate. And nobody else can do it for you.

12.2.1999
VINEETO: What a funny way to say I dont wanna change. Are you from Sirius, or the P
lejades or maybe the Little Prince from A. de Saint-Exupery, who tends his rose
and his monkey-bread-tree on his faraway little planet and now you are waiting f
or an other-worldly power to help you to be happy with your ego that you so exce
llently described?
RESPONDENT: Yes, maybe I am Sirius-ian or Plejadian or maybe the Little Prince f
rom Dain-Expupery! I am not sure, but if it is true, its Fucking cool, man, thank
s Vineeto.
VINEETO: It seems to me that Peter and I are the only Earthlings here on the lis
t, saying what a wonderful planet this can be without the shackles of the Human
Condition.
RESPONDENT: Wow!!! So it means the rest of us are all Sirius-ian or Plejadian or
maybe the Little Prince from Dain-Expupery. Mmmm too fucking cool, man. I must
tell this to my friends, they are sure to envy me and the list, and the rest aro
und me are to frown.
VINEETO: This story that Peter and I are the only Earthlings was an actualist jo
ke, pointing to the fact that everyone looks for the solution to life somewhere
else than on this beautiful planet. Either it is waiting for heaven or for Nirva
na, and help comes from a bodiless God or a dead spirit. Do you know the story o
f the Little Prince from Antoine de Saint-Exupery? This prince lived all by hims
elf on his little planet with only one rose and one monkey-bread-tree, which he
needed to guard. He went on a journey and came to earth. After he had seen enoug
h of earth, he wanted to go home to be with his beloved rose. A poisonous snake
in the dessert had to bite him, so he could die and reach home.
I thought it quite a good story for the general accepted spiritual belief that l
ife on earth is a vale of tears and one has to die to reach home again. To make su
re that home is really reached we practice dis-association from body and mind an
d connect with our real self, which is not the body.
According to spirituality we are to dis-identify from body and mind as the alien
part of ourselves, the idea being that body and mind are the hindrance to becom
e one with God. It has been such a relief and joy for me when I found that one c
an actually live here on earth, as this body, in my senses, and enjoy it too. Wh
en I found out that ego, soul, self, emotions, feelings, beliefs and instinctual p
assions in short, the Human Condition are constituting the real alien entity in me
. When I found out that this alien thing, the Human Condition, can be investigated
and deleted.
So, you see, people actually all behave as if they come from somewhere else or a

re going somewhere else, and that we only visit this alien physical world, while the
only thing that separates us as aliens from this perfect universe is our identity
, our self. Once we eliminate the self we can live the perfection of this magical pl
anet, not as visiting aliens, but as sensate and reflective flesh and blood huma
n beings.
*
VINEETO: It would be all very amusing, if it wasnt for the fact that people conti
nuously fight and kill each other.
RESPONDENT: Yes, yes, Vineeto, yes!!!!!
VINEETO: I take it that your passionate writing is in response the book review o
f Zen at War (http://www.darkzen.com/) that Peter mentioned to No 13, because in s
ubject heading you wrote: No 13 re Zen.
RESPONDENT: I have heard about the book, and I wanna read it. I am very curious.
Coz now I am learning about the Japans history of the W.W. II. What a shit!!! Fu
ck the Japanese emperor, fuck the Japanese military, fuck the Japanese politicia
n! And fuck the Zen monks!
VINEETO: I take it that you found the address on the web: http://www.teleport.co
m/~zennist/zenholy.htm
It would be very easy, and not factual, when one simply believes that it was the
fault of the emperor, the military, the politicians and the monks. It was the w
hole country that loved and supported the emperor, the emperor was supported by
the people, the monks were trained according to a thousand year old tradition. T
o blame a particular individual is to miss the point entirely. War and cruelty h
as happened in every country, it happened in every century, in every religion. T
he history of humanity is a continuous history of war, of horrendous wars, of tr
emendous killing, cruelty and suffering. Most of the technological development h
appened to be able to attack and defend better and to be able to kill more effic
iently.
To acknowledge these facts on a global scale makes one aware of the instinctual
root of all the wars. Every single human being is equipped with the basic instin
cts for survival aggression, fear, nurture and desire. This includes the need to
be a member of a group and the will to sacrifice for kin, country and belief. T
he various ethics and morals keep the lid on those drives for a while, but when
it comes to war, those lids are off the bare instincts take over and our animal
nature becomes horrifically obvious.
The more I became aware of those very instincts in me, the more I became determi
ned to eliminate them in me. This is the only way peace-on-earth is possible, fo
r me, and for everyone who wants to do it for himself or herself.
*
VINEETO: Reading of the extensive and systematic involvement of Zen masters and
monks in war-crimes has shocked me and I guess it has shocked you as well. Here
there is another description of what humans do to humans, always calling the oth
er one the inferior race, an animal, inhuman, heathens, fiends and dangerous ene
mies to justify the ferocity and cruelty that is displayed in wars, collective a
cts of instinctual aggression. 160 million people were killed in wars this centu
ry alone, and those 160 million include the 350,000 Chinese of Nanking, the 6 mi
llion Jews of WW II, the 800,000 German and 1.1 million Russian soldiers in Stal
ingrad, the 800,000 Tutus in Rwanda, the 100,000 Muslims and Serbs in Bosnia, th
e hundreds of thousands dead on both sides of the 40 years of Cold War and all t

he others that died for country, religion and ideology.

RESPONDENT: As for Rwanda, have you heard their music? My friends made a Rwanda
music CD recorded there. It so beautifully and deeply touches my soul, which is
of course the root cause of sorrow and malice of Human kind. hehehe. If any one
are interested in the CD. Please mail to me
VINEETO: Music plays an important part in the manipulation of emotions. It has b
een used to control and manage people, to raise their passion, to bind them to t
heir culture, to soothe them or hypnotize them. With music you can play peoples f
eelings like a piano and many talented leaders have used music very skilfully fo
r their power-grazed purposes.
*
VINEETO: Watching on TV the ongoing fighting and suffering in shocking pictures
and learning about the enormous numbers of victims, I cannot turn away any more
from the facts as I could years ago, I cannot invent a karmic reason for all the s
uffering, or pretend it is only the fault of the leaders it is all too obvious t
hat these ongoing atrocities are due to the survival instincts of fear and aggre
ssion, which resides in each of us. Just feeling guilty or sorry for the people
is a hopeless, useless and gutless avoidance, a head in the sand attitude.
RESPONDENT: Yes yes, yes, Vineeto, yes.
VINEETO: The moment I dared to acknowledge these bare shocking facts, I had only
one solution and that was to find the source of fear and aggression in me and t
o eradicate it in me utterly and completely. This is the only way I can make sur
e that I will never participate in violence, no matter what the circumstances, a
nd that I, for one, can be a non-contributor to the pervading violence on the pl
anet. I investigated and eliminated in myself the very source that drives human
beings to be so horrendously cruel, devotionally obedient and desperately aggres
sive the very survival instinct that prevents people from acknowledging and trea
ting each other as fellow human beings.
RESPONDENT: Yes, yes, Vineeto, yes.
VINEETO: Does your yes, yes mean that you see it the same way and want to do somet
hing about it? Does your response mean that you passionately want to eradicate t
he causes for war in you? Does your yes, yes mean that you understand the reason
why human beings have been killing each other for centuries and you want to do s
omething about it in yourself? Does it mean you want to be free of the survival
instinct, of fear and aggression in you?
*
VINEETO: I remember you writing that you visited the City of Peace, Hiroshima. Y
ou wrote:
RESPONDENT: When I walked around the Atomic Dome, I felt so much energy of peace
. After the total disaster, which was the culmination of Mans tendency of fear an
d fighting, Hiroshima has resurrected again. <...> I think we are now under the
World War 3rd. Love and peace vs. fear and aggression. We vs. we and they.
VINEETO: It is the ongoing suffering and fighting that gave me the intent to era
dicate the self responsible for fear and aggression.
RESPONDENT: Yes, yes, yes!!! My friend!
VINEETO: When you say Yes, yes, yes!!!, do you mean that you also would like to ha

ve nothing to fight for, and nothing to suffer about, that you would like to be
free of the Human Condition in you?
*
VINEETO: But for that, one has to self-immolate. Nobody else can do it for you.
RESPONDENT: Mmm, but as you mentioned before, if I and the rest of the list are
Sirius-ian or Plejadian or maybe the Little Prince from Dain-Expupery, how can I
and the rest of all do it? Cheers and comradeship from the outer space.
VINEETO: Ah, here comes the cop-out. I only used the expression from outer space b
ecause you believe in this alien entity or soul. The conviction of having a soul
alien to ones physical body is combined with the belief in some higher forces wh
ich will solve the problems here on earth, be they God, Osho, Mother Earth, Gaia
, Feng Shui, Somebody Else or some other Mysterious Energy. As long as one choos
es to leave the responsibility for ones life with those imaginary higher forces t
here wont be any change. Humans have prayed to their particular Gods for millenni
a and shed their blood for them.
How can you have peace-on-earth, in this life, now?
The only way to change the world is to change ourselves, individually, to become
happy and harmless, freed from instincts, beliefs, feelings and emotions. Nothi
ng to fight for, nothing to suffer about, I can have peace-on-earth for myself a
nd as such contribute to world-peace the only way possible.
To do it, passionately and daringly.

15.2.1999
RESPONDENT: Hi Vineeto,
Thanks for the reply. I join the [Actual Freedom mailing] list again. See you th
ere! I have ordered the book Zen at War. And I passionately want to be happy and
harmless.
Continued on Actual Freedom Trust Mailing List No 14

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===
=====
c-corr12a.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 12

Topics covered
Beauty and magic, how am I experiencing ..., questioning beliefs, my ASC-experie
nce, Virtual Freedom, contemplating dying, deception of self, perfection, glorious
emotions, exploring feelings of enlightenment, Truth-production-machine, superi
ority * three levels of consciousness, ego and soul, fellow human beings * definit
ion of ego, feeling of Oneness, elimination / watching feelings, self-immolation,
trust and dependency, surrender, peace * one mind * Vineeto missed Osho, bad emotion
s, third alternative, beliefs * Rajneesh s belief-system, God, Truth / actual * l
ife after death, Rajneeshs message of surrender and love, human love and divine l
ove * Christmas girls * happy and harmless

12.12.1998
VINEETO: Hi,
RESPONDENT: Ive asked some questions ... Ive read your posts ... and for me ... en
ough is enough.
Im tired of your speeches and preaching, while saying nothing. Do you truly belie
ve you are this interesting? Obviously you missed Osho completely ... and perhap
s you have finally begun to awaken with the help of your new guru. Congratulatio
ns and Who cares?
What is also obvious to me is that you
en there many times, and have had some
I didnt know anything. You are stuck
r to convince yourselves by convincing
VINEETO: Yes, I
every day. And
opportunity to
ound nothing in

now believe you know something. I have be

rude awakenings when I have realized that
in your new-found truths, preaching in orde
others.

know something, I have experienced something. Not just once, but

it is so unbelievably delicious that I want to give everyone the
check it out for themselves. You checked out what we write and f
it for you. Good, thats everyones freedom.

But then, as became obvious in the correspondence of the last days, not everyone
can relate to what you are writing, thats just how it is, isnt it?
RESPONDENT: My site has a new look!
VINEETO: I did have a look. What I found was very interesting. You know, I find
it such good fun; finally we are able to do here, on this list, what I always wa
nted to do in my years of Sannyas to discuss openly about our discoveries, quest
ions and doubts. My quest for exploration and thorough investigation wasnt satisf
ied then. Now we are doing it, live. Good, hey!
You wrote in your biography on your web-site:

RESPONDENT: I was seriously planning how I was going to go about killing myself,
when I was suddenly stopped by a flash of insight. All at once I doubted my min
d. It was the first time I ever questioned my know-it-all attitude. I was confou
nded by not being able to reconcile suicide with my knowing everything. I believe
I know everything and Im planning to kill myself? Could it be that I dont know ev
erything, that possibly I dont know anything!
VINEETO: Yepp, I know that intensity of despair. Thats when we are able to push t
hrough to an actual experience of what we are, rather than who we think we are,
isnt it?
And then you wrote about your magic experience on the veggie farm at the Ranch:
RESPONDENT: Then I heard a small voice in my head say to me there is no problem,
O.K., you are leaving, but since you are here for only another afternoon why do
nt you just let go of this mind of yours that you know is making you so miserable
, you can have it back at 5 oclock when you leave, and you can just enjoy this cr
azy outing. Sounded very logical, so I agreed. Immediately, I was in bliss. Sudd
enly, everywhere was beauty and magic. It took me the whole time we were out in
that field for me to plant just one artichoke.
VINEETO: You know, this is exactly what I mean, when I use the method of How am I
experiencing this moment of being alive? Each time I ask that question, it becom
es obvious that there is only this moment, and if I am not happy now, I am wasti
ng this moment of being alive. And out of that understanding I come back here, i
nto this moment of being alive, in its actuality, abundance, magic, perfection a
nd purity. Or I tackle what stops me from being here, what makes me unhappy, ang
ry, sorrowful, malicious, fearful or desperate and sort myself out, such that I
get back here. The magic is, it works each time.
Peter described it like this:
Peter: Sometimes, seeing through some part of me as a mere belief or instinctual p
attern would come as a flash of realisation, sometimes as a slow painful dawning
, which I would fight tooth and nail, reluctant to even acknowledge, let alone t
hrow out. But gradually I could notice the psychological entity becoming thinner
, actually weakening its hold over me. It then became apparent to me that I was
indeed fixing myself up as much as I could! Peters Journal, Intelligence
RESPONDENT: Most awakenings come out of pain, out of crisis. Were it not for suf
fering, how would we ever know anything was wrong? Like when theres a splinter in
your foot, you know from the pain that it needs to be removed. In this case, it
is natural to be open to a remedy. Yet, when suffering is our life, we are less
open to examine its cause. Somehow in the midst of my suicide crisis, I opened
and trusted enough to doubt what I thought was true, my own thinking, my conditi
oned self.
VINEETO: Yes, that is my experience too, in the midst of the crisis, I gathered
enough momentum to question everything I had believed before, and broke through
to the actual world, which becomes apparent when we stop piling ideas and belief
s on what we experience. We come our senses both literally and figuratively. Ver
y scary and very magical. But in my experience it is not the pain that triggers
the break-through, but having had enough of it and desperately wanting to find a
way out of that pain. There are also people who are so much in love with their
pain, they will never have an awakening, as you call it, or a break out of ones dea
rly held belief structure. It needs a certain sensibility to question both the i
nevitability of the pain and the truth of ones present situation.
RESPONDENT: My life changed so much that I had to give up any concrete ideas of

who I was. I discovered that identity was an unnecessary burden. I was no longer
a Jew, an American, or anything else. I was no longer insulted by what others s
aid.
VINEETO: Isnt it a wonderful freedom to have no ideas of who one is, to have no i
dentity whatsoever?! To be neither master nor disciple, neither wise nor stupid,
neither male nor female role-oriented. When human beings are simply fellow huma
n beings and there is no fear that they could pull the carpet out from under my
feet because I have done that already myself.
RESPONDENT: I began to understand J. Krishnamurtis words: You are the world, and t
he world is you. Very much thanks to Osho, I re-discovered my heart. I had discov
ered meditative silence years before, yet I was missing this loving component, t
his female side of no-mind.
VINEETO: I am reminded of my enlightenment experience a couple of months ago.

[Vineeto]: It all started when, one bright day in the beginning of October 98, P
eter announced that he had decided he would not wait for me any longer. He would
now go for the last step to freedom. I remember clearly him sitting on the moss
-green railing of our balcony, his feet firmly pressed against the wall below fo
r support, cigarette in hand and grinning mischievously. I was shocked that now
was the time to die, to completely extinguish the self I knew myself to be. No mor
e procrastination. No more postponement, lingering on in this cosy delightful vi
rtual freedom, wondering what emotion still wanted tackling leisurely, pleasurel
y, at ease.
We had had several months of joyous exploration into the Human Condition since P
eters Journal had been published. We lived day-in, day-out in perfect peace and h
armony and enjoyed the leisure time in our little flat, doing very little, walki
ng into town, having sex, playing on the computer, writing, watching TV, laying
around on the couches and talking a lot. More and more we had cleaned ourselves
up from instincts, emotions and beliefs, finding here and there bits in the cupbo
ard of our psyche to be swept out.
Now that pace had changed. Peter charged for the bunker! What about me? Surely I w
ould not want to hang around any longer when he is disappearing! So I got myself
into forward gear, checked on the direction and started the motor to drive away
from the familiar cosiness of the virtual freedom, that I had enjoyed for so lo
ng, into the big Unknown.
Having decided to go into the face of death, fear arose, big fear. The dormant i
nstinct of survival now challenged awoke from sleep and spread fear and doubt al
l over my body and brain. Everything went on alert to protect what I knew as me.
One of those protecting methods was to create doubts, ghosts upon ghosts of dou
bt. Am I doing the right thing? No one has ever done it before, without going th
rough enlightenment, and wont I get lost? What if I end up accidentally enlighten
ed? I was dead sure by now that this was a calamity I definitely wanted to avoid
. Maybe I am not capable for such an unnatural task? Maybe I am not cleaned up e
nough and pushing too early? How will I know what is the right direction? And on
and on they went in hours of chasing my tail, round in circles without any sens
ible outcome.
I spent a lot of time in the day to contemplate dying, trying to figure out of w
hat it will consist of, how I will experience it, how it was for Richard. I woul
d call that whole process gathering intent, adjusting direction, becoming clear th
at now I was going for the final price. Along with sorting out relationships cam
e hours of deep sorrow, a seemingly endless personal farewell to everything and

everyone who I had cherished, held dear, appreciated and felt close to. Well awa
re that the days of the leisurely ease of virtual freedom lay way behind, with t
he bridges burnt and no return, now an all-engulfing sadness pervaded me, a bitt
er-sweet drama that was played out worthy of the supposedly last days of my self
. Denial and rejection went hand in hand with pushing the vehicle up the hill ie.
contemplating on the extinction of the self. What I found was a repetitive circl
e of fear frustration doubt fear and the only way out is intent, intent to not s
top at second best, whatever happens.
One day, imagining death again, I encountered a rush of glory going all through
my belly, filling the chest area and filling my eyes with tears of joy and antic
ipation. I could see the self enjoying the dignity of a willing death, agreeing to
the undeniable fact that only the self was in the road of experiencing the perfec
tion of the universe. As close as the self is able to I stood at the brink of actu
al freedom. By sheer obvious comparison I had to admit that I would never be abl
e to accomplish or compete with the purity and crystal clear magic of this perfe
ct universe. This glimpse alone was a thousandfold greater and more magical than
any self would ever be able to produce, no matter how much I would clean myself u
p and make myself perfect. This very realisation was to be the defeat of the self.
But at the same time there was the utter joy and celebration of having seen and
experienced what I would be dying for and that it was worth all of me.
You would think that was it. Well, it turned out to be one of the trick cards th
e self had in stock pretending that all was finished and accomplished now, and wou
ld I duly please take my mind of it now and finish the search! Waking up the nex
t morning with shoulder stuck to my ears I knew I had deceived myself, the journ
ey was far from over! What a cunning little bugger this oh so perfect self could b
e! A little embarrassed I admitted my trickery to Peter, we had a good laugh and
kept looking.
It has been a wonderful thrill, joy and support to go through this whole journey
with Peter together. Since no personal relationship would spoil the sincere int
ent of both our investigations we could scientifically explore the ways our brai
ns are wired and what is the easiest and quickest way out of this maze of emotio
n around death. I was often astonished and amazed that I never experienced a ret
reat or rejection from his side, again 180 degrees in the opposite direction to
the spiritual approach. With each of us being focussed on our own discoveries an
d willingness to die we were thus able to compare notes, detect deceit or confus
ion, remember intent, and, after all, share the delights of the day. We would ha
ve a cup of coffee in the morning, go down town for lunch, do our shopping, lay
around and talk, watch TV, have sex, write or play card and meet people just lik
e before. Nobody would guess our state of madness, our seemingly impossible miss
ion or at times our desperate attempts to see through the thick of it all. In th
is way we were not only pioneering to find a direct way to actual freedom withou
t going in and out of Enlightenment, but also proved that it is possible to stay
in the marketplace and do it together with another human being.
One of our typical conversations would go like this:
Peter: How is your conundrum?
Vineeto: Oh, it hasnt appeared today yet, I expect it any time. How about you?
Peter: Mine is buzzing away in the background, giving every moment the thrilling
experience of the adventure of a life-time.
One day, at dusk, I felt the fear approaching again, tensing my back muscles and
increasing in intensity like the swelling sound of cicadas in the bush. This ti
me it was warmly welcomed like a longed-for ally, announcing the approaching of
my impending destiny. I have no objections whatsoever, no doubts, not even excit

ement of something going wrong. A delicious complete undivided yes to whatever w

ants to happen. This is doing what is happening, indistinguishable, without choi
ce, clear and obvious. A wave of gratefulness sweeps over me towards everyone wh
o knowingly and unknowingly has contributed to who I am and what I have become p
arents and family, teachers and friends, masters and co-seekers, enemies and lov
ers. They all had part in the perfecting process of me now standing at the brink
of completion.
There are physical sensations of fire and tingling in stomach and back, which sl
owly fill up the whole chest-area with heart-warming feeling. A wave of greatnes
s overcomes me, compassion for all humankind in general and the few people I kno
w in particular. Fear is constantly transformed into fire that fills the heart,
melting the strong tension in chest, back and neck.
A feeling of perfection washes over me. I recognise that the I is as perfect as ca
n be and thus has fulfilled its every ambition and longing, every dream and aspi
ration, every hope and goal, every task and responsibility. It can go off stage
now. Now in the face of death the I is as perfect as can ever be. Immense joy and
glory rush through me as it mutates into a shadowy vague substance, lingering ab
out to record the next events to happen. A curious sensation in the top of the s
pine of someone snipping through wires, as if severing some information connecti
ons.
As I lie and wonder what has happened besides the fairy-tale of glorious emotion
s I notice that my intent is now replaced by confidence and the faculty of doubt
has seized to produce any kind of wobble. Intense fear is still present but acc
ompanied by an all-encompassing confidence that everything is happening perfectl
y. Nothing can go wrong. But surprise there is for sure!
The next time that I am lying on the couch, pursuing my death I notice that I am
still busy with farewell. We had spent an afternoon with Richard and Grace and
reported events. Now I am acknowledging the relationship I had had with him, the
joy, the ease, my appreciation for his patient support, his priceless discovery
of freedom, the actual world behind the spiritual delusion. My freedom will be
a present to him as much as to everyone else. I notice that by saying goodbye to h
im I am also leaving the last signpost. No outer orientation, just my own intent
can guide me now.
As more relationships to people have their last pass-by I realise to what extent
the self is made of my relationship with people. Becoming aware and letting my
emotional bond in those relationships dissolve there seems to be less and less s
ubstance to this strange cloud floating around somewhere in my chest.
Later on that night I went into an exploration of what this enlightenment feels
like from the inside. In all my years of spiritual search, I had been vitally in
terested as to exactly what enlightenment is. I had investigated descriptions fr
om the different holy men and spiritual Scriptures, but could never quite grasp th
is mysterious state of being. Now it was obvious. The intense pulsing of the heart
, the love and compassion for each and everyone mixed with the grandeur of Divine
Love or Universal Love. It is a very seductive state with this cosy warm sensation
filling the whole chest or heart area, continuously glowing and an utter at-eas
e-ness, because every aspect of personal concern, ego or self is non-existent. A
nd there is no doubt, whatsoever. No doubt about any theory or philosophy runnin
g in my head as I try and make sense of this new state. In this cock-sure securi
ty I could write Scriptures, poems, treatises on each and every spiritual subjec
t, make up an illusory world of heavens, hells and Divine Laws and ways to get t
here. As long as I keep the Love flowing, there is no fear involved either. I am c
onvinced I found the Truth if only there wasnt somewhere in the back this nagging
concern that maybe I am cheating myself!

I recognize a satisfaction and pride of finally standing equal as a woman beside

s all those superior men I have aspired to emulate, copy, obey, surrender to, or
at least understand. Now I know exactly where they are at. I was like Mrs. Anto
inette Varner (Gangaji) swanning into a hall of disciples, all-knowing, generous
, compassionate, and full of the wisdom of all the ages.
Big deal! Seeing the Power and Glory in action and its impact on me I turn away.
This is not the perfection I am searching for, this is not the purity that I kn
ow from peak-experiences. As I watch the sky dawn in its wonderful changing colo
urs with life awakening all around, leaves rustling in the wind, cicadas chirpin
g, magpies whistling, fear returns and I welcome it as a sign that I am on the r
oad to freedom again. The delusion of Power and Glory is seen for what it is and
disappears while I lie on the couch contemplating life and death and the univer
se.
Still, one great realisation after the other are floating in and out of my head,
engulfing me with their convincing web. Suddenly I become aware of what is happ
ening. I am a Truth-Producing-Machine! I am producing the Truth of Freedom to mainta
in my Self.
What a bummer! Just call it the Truth of Freedom and turn it into a spiritual beli
ef-system! Very, very cunning indeed. Back into old time religion! This realisatio
n truly ripped the carpet from under my feet. While it crumbled I recognised the
enormity of its implications. My certainty vanished while I desperately tried t
o maintain and understanding about freedom and death. What to do now? Where to g
o from here? The ground I was standing on as an identity shook considerably but
didnt disappear entirely. I was still trying to make sense of me and life.

And then I reach the door marked insanity that Richard had been talking about. Fea
r reaches another crescendo and turned into stark terror. Frantically I try to a
t least keep up the reporting, the cognitive exploring entity. But I realise tha
t if I want to go through that door, the pioneer, the scientist and the reporter will
have to stay behind.
As I wake up after a few hours of sleep I am desolate. Frustrated and desperate
that the self is still in operation and control, that I am not able to reach my go
al, I have to admit that I have failed. I had done everything I could think of,
feel about and imagine nothing has ultimately worked. All my efforts, all my so
highly valued explorations and findings have not been able to set me free. No ho
pe, no will, no passionate intent. I am lost, empty-handed in no-where-land.
I said to Peter: Forget about everything that I was so cock-sure about the last d
ays. I have no idea of anything.
Peter: So, you got out of your enlightenment-stuff then? Congratulations! Isnt it
amazing what goes on just in the head and the heart?!
I see that all of my death-experiences up to now have been induced by willing deat
h. It worked, to go into the world to enlightenment, to demolish the personal se
lf. But it failed to rid myself of the psychic entity; the psychic survival-inst
incts are still fully operating inside, inventing one scheme after the other to
keep up the illusion that I was indeed getting closer to the desired goal. Willi
ng death was necessary but not enough, because the who was willing it stayed untou
ched.
The impact and the very paradox of this revelation was devastating. I cannot do
anything but something still needs to be done. Squirming about in despair, I cou
ld only face the facts. And the fact was death, death of all of me, death of ego
and soul and the sense of being. Nothing less than the inconceivable, it stood
there. The only thing to do was to stop denying the fact of my inevitable death. Vi

neeto, Exploring Death and Altered States of Consciousness

RESPONDENT to No 14: Awakening is devastating.

VINEETO: Do you mean to say that it is an ongoing devastation for the self, for wh
o we think and feel we are?
RESPONDENT: It is always shocking to see what assholes we really are.
VINEETO: I dont agree with you here. Once I got rid of my ideas, beliefs, emotion
s in short all of my identity there is no-one there to be an asshole or call any
one an asshole. This is not pretended humility. When there is no asshole in me,
I also see no asshole outside of me.
As long as I swanned around like one of the Enlightened Ones I felt superior, an
d everyone else needed my compassion or wisdom. It took me a week to fully get o
ut of that seductive delusion. It is part and parcel of becoming enlightened; it
comes with that energy filling ones heart, one is being swamped with wisdom, the gre
atest imagination the Self can produce. One is hooked into the collective wisdom o
f humanity and thus perpetuates the suffering and morals that have been our heri
tage from the very beginning. Good is only the backside of bad.
The name of the game is to throw the whole coin of good and bad out the window. The
name of the game is freedom from good and evil, right and wrong.
Once I got rid of who I am and simply live what I am, this flesh and blood body, the
re is only silly and sensible, a practical, down-to-earth, delightful enjoyment
of the perfection of this benevolent universe. This is when peace on earth is po
ssible.
I enjoyed comparing notes with you. Let me know what you make of it.

2.1.1999
RESPONDENT: I see 3 levels of consciousness. Briefly...
VINEETO:
What is usually completely overlooked is that there is not only an ego controlling
our thoughts, but also a soul producing our emotions and that both are running on
the fuel of our innate animal survival instincts. Both, ego and soul, have to b
e eliminated in order to experience an actual freedom from the Human Condition.
Only without the intricate system of instincts, emotions and beliefs can the mag
nificent perfection of actuality be experienced, which is then it self-evident a
nd obvious. Actual Freedom is neither a devastating truth nor a mystery to be lo
st in but the continuous experience of this abundant life in this pure and infin
ite universe, experienced through the physical senses.
RESPONDENT: No amount of talking or typing will ever awaken anybody unless there
is trust and surrender, such as what can exist in a master/disciple relationshi
p. I say these words to add clarity where there might otherwise be frustration f
rom not being heard.
VINEETO: Trust and surrender only lead to the confused lost-ness, that you descr
ibe your freedom to be, and to eternal dependency from the person one has chosen
to be ones master. You surrender your will to a higher authority. Not much of a

freedom I would say!

Freedom is to be free of authority, free of ones self, free of any psychic, mental
and emotional construct, free of churning emotions and the sorrow of compassion.
Freedom is to be free to be the universe experiencing itself as a sensate and r
eflective human being.
RESPONDENT: She is just being No 14.
VINEETO: And No 12 is just being No 12. Vineeto is just being Vineeto.
Three people out of 5.8 billion on this planet fellow human beings.
If one cant regard and treat someone as ones fellow human being then there is some
thing in oneself to be looked at.
Peace on earth is that simple.

7.1.1999
VINEETO: I dont know where you got your definition of EGO from, because it is neith
er from the dictionary nor from Mr. Rajneeshs teachings. Ill give you the Macquari
e definition here: the I of self of any person; a person as thinking, feeling, wil
ling and distinguishing itself from the selves of others and from objects of its
thought.
Ego is much more than just unawareness of unawareness! It is the little man in t
he head that controls our thoughts and actions. It is who we think we are.
RESPONDENT: I agree with your definition, however, I was not defining ego, but u
sing the word ego to label a level of consciousness. According to my insights in
to this matter, the vast majority are unaware that their ego is operating accord
ing to the definition. They are unaware of their unawareness.

VINEETO: The question for me here would be, who is the one that needs to state oth
ers unawareness of their unawareness to define ones own awareness of unawareness? Isn
it the same ego, now merely feeling a bit superior to those more unaware? I found th
is spiritual superiority just another trap of the cunning entity inside of me to
keep me firmly locked in the self.
*
VINEETO: Your second level of search is not a level at all. Many people become o
nly more proud and feel superior as the chosen few because they now have a higher id
eal to follow, and search for, than normal people.
RESPONDENT: Perhaps you are projecting your reality here. I see very clearly tha
t many awaken to this second stage. If more went on to the last stage, this worl
d might be vastly different.
VINEETO: Are you saying you dont feel superior to most people? From all I read on
this list I cannot detect an equity with your fellow human beings. If more went
on to the last stage which I assume you claim to have done there would be even mo
re people out there trying to gather disciples or clients and compete with each
other as to who has the best truth and the purest message. I am reminded of your con
versation with your pirate soul-brothers here on this list a few months ago!
*

VINEETO: Your third level, what you call freedom, sounds as if one simply gives up
searching and resigns into confusion and being lost. Not a very attractive alte
rnative at all!
RESPONDENT: Well, I can see you havent been there. Ever heard it said that the mo
re one knows, the less one knows? The enlightened state is exactly not knowing a
nything, but a blissful sense of wonder. It is lost-ness with love. And before y
ou start thinking in terms of sex or relationship, I am speaking of love from on
es heart. The love that transcends all division.
VINEETO: The enlightened stage as I remember my experience being in an Altered S
tate of Consciousness and as I have read about in many descriptions is not only
a blissful sense of wonder but a feeling of being one with everything and theref
ore knowing all and everything, having the answer for everyone and the urge to e
manate truth to all and sundry. Yes, it is being lost in feeling, so utterly and c
ompletely lost, that there is no common sense left. One is feeling superior to a
ll, because these other poor mere mortals have not got it yet. And one is so swamp
ed by ones feeling of love and truth that it seems the only truth there is, irregardl
ess that there were already hundreds of enlightened ones with different messages
creating various religions all over the planet.
*
VINEETO: What is usually completely overlooked is that there is not only an ego co
ntrolling our thoughts, but also a soul producing our emotions and that both are r
unning on the fuel of our innate animal survival instincts. Both, ego and soul,
have to be eliminated in order to experience an actual freedom from the Human Co
ndition. Only without the intricate system of instincts, emotions and beliefs ca
n the magnificent perfection of actuality be experienced, which is then it selfevident and obvious. Actual Freedom is neither a devastating truth nor a mystery
to be lost in but the continuous experience of this abundant life in this pure
and infinite universe, experienced through the physical senses.
RESPONDENT: Nice try, but when you use words like eliminated, instead of awarene
ss, you are revealing your repressing control trip. I have been speaking of awar
eness, in referring to 3 levels of consciousness, I refer to 3 levels of awarene
ss.
VINEETO: I think you dont know what eliminated means, maybe you have never experien
ced the elimination of an emotion or an instinct. It means, this particular emot
ion and issue have disappeared, they doesnt exist anymore. Take for instance jeal
ousy. I have neither repressed it nor transcended it, it now simply does not occ
ur, whatever the situation, because the one who would be insulted by jealousy or
feel insecure by anyones behaviour has been eliminated. I have dug deep inside a
nd found the ground my jealousy was feeding from and I have removed the very cau
se for jealousy to occur, the sense of me that wants attention, security, identity
and the notion of belonging. If jealousy was just repressed there would still b
e situations when, once in a while, the lid would invariably fly off and reveal th
e underlying emotion of possessiveness, because one cannot repress for 24 h a da
y, 365 days a year.
The spiritual practice of awareness only shifts ones identity to the watcher, a newly
created spiritual identity. When those transcended emotions and instincts return
because the watcher wasnt watchful enough, they are raging in full force. Instinc
ts are not being eliminated by transcendence, not even reduced, they are only pu
t aside through dis-identification.
Elimination gets rid of the cause, it severs the root of the particular belief,
feeling or emotion. To eliminate an emotion, such as jealousy, I had to find the

underlying cause, examine all the supporting beliefs and emotions, like
ossessiveness, fear, greed, insecurity etc. and understand them in their
y. I have to see the instincts, the core of the self in its operation.
s it possible to eliminate that particular emotion a bit of the self
, never to return.

love, p
entiret
Only then i
actually dies

Richard says it very aptly:

Richard: In fact, with the elimination of the instincts, I will cease to exist, pe
riod. Psychological self-immolation is the only sensible sacrifice that I can make
in order to reveal whatever is actual. And what is actual is perfection. Life i
s bursting with meaning when I am no longer present to mess things up. I stand in th
e way of the purity of the perfection of the actual being apparent. My presence pr
ohibits this ever-present perfection being evident. I prevent the very purity of l
ife, that I am searching for, from coming into plain view. Richards Journal, Append
ix No 4
RESPONDENT: No amount of talking or typing will ever awaken anybody unless there
is trust and surrender, such as what can exist in a master/disciple relationshi
p. I say these words to add clarity where there might otherwise be frustration f
rom not being heard.
VINEETO: Trust and surrender only lead to the confused lost-ness, that you descr
ibe your freedom to be, and to eternal dependency from the person one has chosen
to be ones master. You surrender your will to a higher authority. Not much of a
freedom I would say!
Freedom is to be free of authority, free of ones self, free of any psychic, mental
and emotional construct, free of churning emotions and the sorrow of compassion.
Freedom is to be free to be the universe experiencing itself as a sensate and r
eflective human being.
RESPONDENT: I feel you are projecting again here. I never mentioned eternal depe
ndency. The trust and surrender I mention is dropping of ego, greatly facilitate
d by a master. Trust and surrender is to existence or god or a master. Anything
can become dependency if you love being a victim.
VINEETO: You might have never mentioned eternal dependency because you might not
be aware of it. It is dependency to trust someone else rather than rely on ones ow
n innate intelligence, and it is dependency to surrender ones will to some higher b
eing or mythical force rather than activate ones own sincere intent to be the bes
t one can be. For millennia this trust and surrender has stopped people thinking f
or themselves, relying on God or Existence or Masters and prophets for help.
Once I have experienced the actual perfection of this physical universe for myse
lf in a peak experience where the self is temporarily in abeyance I can focus my e
fforts to reach this state 24 h a day. And using the simple method of eliminatin
g the instincts that the self consists of, I am free to pursue this actual freedom
without trust and surrender, without master or divine grace. To trust another or sur
render to someone or something else is by definition not freedom.
*
RESPONDENT: She is just being No 14.
VINEETO: And No 12 is just being No 12. Vineeto is just being Vineeto. Three peo
ple out of 5.8 billion on this planet; fellow human beings. If one cant regard an
d treat someone as a fellow human being then there is something in oneself to be
looked at. Peace on earth is that simple.

RESPONDENT: I agree and sometimes, from compassion, it can be pointed out that o
ne is asleep, unconscious, being their mother, whatever.
Richard: We are all fellow human beings who find ourselves here in the world as
it was when we were born. We find war, murder, torture, rape, domestic violence
and corruption to be endemic ... we notice that it is intrinsic to the Human Con
dition ... we set out to discover why this is so. We find sadness, loneliness, s
orrow, grief, depression and suicide to be a global incidence ... and we gather
that it is also inherent to the Human Condition ... and we want to know why. We
all report to each other as to the nature of our discoveries for we are all well
-meaning and seek to find a way out of this mess that we have landed in. Whether
one believes in re-incarnation or not, we are all living this particular life f
or the very first time, and we wish to make sense of it. It is a challenge and t
he adventure of a life-time to enquire and to uncover, to seek and to find, to e
xplore and to discover. All this being alive business is actually happening and
we are totally involved in living it out ... whether we take the back seat or no
t, we are all still doing it. Richards Journal, Foreword
What do you think?

10.1.1999
VINEETO: Thank you for your two replies.
RESPONDENT: I found this post of Vineetos very clear and interesting. FOR A CHANG
E!
VINEETO: I thought you had given up on me when you said:
RESPONDENT: I dont wish to comment on each of your comments. I dont feel you hear
me. What I get back from you are the same tired projections ... your words about
gurus, superiority etc. And ironically, you dont seem to understand that people
are at different levels of consciousness.
VINEETO: Of course, I do. People are at different stages in their lives and have
become more or less aware of some of their behaviour.
I simply point out that with the creation of 3 levels of consciousness you put y
ourself on the top level and then feel wonderfully superior about it. Your 3 lev
els of consciousness seem to be
Unless you have eliminated all (conscious and unconscious) emotions, beliefs and
instincts from your body, there will always be a self, a being remaining that claim
s the achievement. Did you ever wonder who is that entity that claims to be conscio
us, that claims the achievement of awareness, love, compassion?
That is exactly the new and radical about what I say: every who is preventing you
to experience the actuality of each moment, every who, however advanced he claims to
be, is still an entity, polluting the experience of the purity and perfection o
f the actual world. There is something more to discover and it is physical and s
ensate as opposed to meta-physical, cerebral and affective.
RESPONDENT: But, given that you are stuck in some belief trip, this is understan
dable, because humans cant see up very much.
VINEETO: I am talking about experiencing the world as evidenced by the physical
senses. It is, compared to the different spirit-ual convictions, not a belief bu
t an actual, repeatable event the very word spiritual points to spirit, non-actual,

non-material, as opposed to the flesh-and-blood body. In order to hear the sound

of cicadas in the background or feel the fan blowing on my shoulders I dont need
any kind of belief. It is an actual, direct and delightful experience of the se
nses.
RESPONDENT: cant recognize Osho, he is too high for them to realize who he is.
VINEETO: Obviously I did not just project, when I said that you are feeling supe
rior. You have divided the world in high and low, up and down, level 1, 2, 3, id
iots and clever people. But your superiority is nothing but a psychic and psycho
logical interpretation, supported by the emotions of the Human Condition. Since
everybody is inflicted with the Human Condition, it is easy to understand. Due t
o our instincts and conditioning we create duality for psychic orientation, almo
st everyone does it but it is not obligatory. One can delete this natural imprint,
one can become actually free of ones instincts and beliefs.
RESPONDENT: Probably this is how you misunderstand what masters are up to. You j
ust dont get it and to cover your hurt ego you pretend you know something. And to
convince yourselves, you must desperately try to convert others. Once one has a
wakened, on any level, it is crystal clear to see down.
VINEETO: Do you say you have been awakened and now you can see down on me?
RESPONDENT: On a subconscious level, you probably continue to write to this list
... so someone will get thru to you sleepy heads.
VINEETO: It seems a cheap cop-out to call what you dont like sleepy and subconscious.
It is called name-calling and not valid as an argument to convince. Cant you com
e up with something more substantial?
RESPONDENT: Meditation is to be of one mind.
VINEETO: Whos mind are you talking about, obviously not yours and Vineetos. We hav
e not come to agree on one point yet. But, it is early days, we might get there.
Just, as long as you talk from your imaginary top of the staircase to me on the
imaginary bottom of the staircase, it will be a bit difficult to meet. I sugges
t, we dismiss the imagination and with it the staircase and talk to each other a
s fellow human beings, investigating the issue and the subject rather than decla
ring positions on the staircase.
How about it?

10.1.1999
RESPONDENT: I found this post of Vineetos very clear and interesting. FOR A CHANG
E! And I see how Vineeto missed Osho.
VINEETO: I am pleased that I said something that is clear and interesting to you
. I am really giving my best each time, you know, to describe the new discovery
that people can understand. I am still curious why you never responded to the de
scription of my enlightenment story and how I saw through the delusion it is, that
I have sent to you last month (see first letter). I would be interested in your
response so we can compare notes to your experiences.
So, you believe that I missed Osho. As I see it, I finally saw him with both my
eyes and heard him with both my ears wide open. Despite all the in-built contrad
ictions Osho was clear on one point: The only difference between me and you is t
hat I have realised that I am God (the Divine, One with the Universe), and you h

ave not. Well, I have described at length in the above mentioned letter as to wh
y I decided that Id rather live in the actual world of people, things and events
than get lost in the imagination of the psychic world with its passionate imagin
ations of Compassion and Truth. In that sense I have serendipitously missed Osho a
nd now have turned 180 degrees in the opposite direction to everything spiritual
and non-actual. Life has not only gained immense meaning, but I am finally able
to be happy and harmless, live at ease in the world and at peace, on my own and
with other human beings.
RESPONDENT: In numerous talks with other sannyasins over the years, particularly
about how they either loved or hated the ranch, I discovered that I am fascinat
ed to see how differently we each missed what Osho was about, how we misundersto
od his words, denied his devices, were resistant to feelings, letting go, etc.
VINEETO: You use the word we and yet you claim you havent missed Osho. Are you sayi
ng that everybody who does not agree with your interpretation of the message misse
d Osho? What a haughty claim! It certainly saves one from having to look closer
at ones own self. But it is hard to question whom one has put on the pedestal of be
ing an authority and then question ones reliance and dependency on such authority
. Most people prefer to defend their belief. Fair enough. It has been the best o
n offer up till now. But now there is available an actual (not imaginary) freedo
m from the Human Condition and an effective method to achieving it.
RESPONDENT: Vineeto, you remained in the duality of good/bad emotions. And right
/wrong beliefs. All, throughout 17 years of sannyas!!!
VINEETO: Are you saying, you didnt? You write on your website:
[Respondent]: I guide and counsel those who get stuck, go astray, feel lost, or
are having difficulty along the way. I know how easy it is to stumble and fall o
n this path, and get distracted, feel confused, disoriented, or lost. The way is
indeed often dark. Often, I feel my work is simply that of someone with a flash
light shining a light to show the way out of a dead end. [endquote].
Dont you guide people out of their bad emotions and out of their wrong beliefs? If yo
u dont, then why would they come to you in the first place? Or do you prefer to c
all it the wrong level of consciousness? Dont you guide them from bad feelings into
good feelings, from the normal world into the spiritual world, from the secular int
o the Divine?
Going beyond duality in Eastern philosophy and in Oshos teaching translates into tra
nscending the secular dualities of good and bad, loneliness and belonging to a g
roup, greed and generosity, love and hate, etc. One transcends this duality by th
e feeling of Bliss, Compassion and Divine Love, but duality is only transcended
by creating another identity, the watcher.

I am talking about the third alternative removing the root cause of the problem,
me, the self, the instinctual programming, not just transcending it into feeling one
with the divine. Actual Freedom means eliminating not only the secular duality o
f good and bad, but also the spiritual duality of the watcher and the illusory worl
d, of soul and body. In the actual world there is no duality because there is no
imaginary alien entity of me, the soul, the core of ones being. In Actual Freedom t
his instinctual sourced being has been extinct.
RESPONDENT: So finally, with Peters or Richards saying it in a way you could under
stand, you woke up to witness your conditioned mind ... the good and bad parts.
VINEETO: No, not witness eliminate, remove, extinguish. There is a big differenc
e. Witnessing creates a new entity, the watcher. One is to identify with and becom
e the watcher and dismiss or transcend the rest as imaginary. Body-mind, emotion,

thought and senses, as well as the physical world, are considered an illusion, w
hile Consciousness is proclaimed to be ones true nature.
Elimination happens through understanding the root cause of each particular prob
lem, the human instincts of fear, aggression, nurture and desire. By seeing when
I was acting out of my instincts, human nature, I could also see that I have a ch
oice. But in order to have that choice I have to questions all emotions, good an
d bad, and all beliefs (real and Divine), in fact, the very act of believing itsel
f.
RESPONDENT: Wonderful, but now I see that you are again unconsciously believing.
Believing there is no god, no love, no soul, no other lives, etc, etc, etc.
VINEETO: Not so. I dont believe, either consciously or unconsciously. I only take
my information about life from what I can see, hear, smell, touch and taste, th
e very physical substance. Everything that goes on in the head and the heart is
belief and imagination it is the very stuff the self is made of. Once you stop bel
ieving in the soul you experientially understand that it does not exist outside
of your belief. To believe that there is life after death needs the act of belie
ving. It is not a proven fact. And it doesnt make it more of a fact that millions
of people have the same belief. Once you stop feeding that belief you will sudd
enly see the fact that this body dies when it dies and that there is nothing els
e left, no soul to live on for eternity. Once god, love, soul, other lives etc.
are not supported, i.e. passionately believed in, by our psychic entity, they di
sappear. They have as much substance as a ghost none whatsoever.
RESPONDENT: Seeing that most of the world is unconscious of their repressions wh
ich keep them stuck in their beliefs, you have formed a new belief that all of w
hat the masses believe is wrong. I am not saying they are right. I am saying tha
t if you re-awaken, see your current beliefs, AND NOT REPLACE THEM as Osho has s
aid, you may find your heart and life as a mystery to be lived, not as a believi
ng robot.
VINEETO: Once I experienced the actual world I could see there is no need to pol
lute it with any kind of human produce call it heart, love, mystery, divine consci
ousness. From the clear experience of a Pure Consciousness Experience I could se
e that all my feelings and beliefs are part of the Human Condition, a product of
the basic survival instincts of fear, aggression, nurture and desire. I underst
and that you would want to label my experience of the actual world according to
your belief-structure and put it into the drawer of another belief because all we
have known up to now is consists of beliefs. In fact, belief, trust, hope and fa
ith are held as the highest human values.
The moment you sincerely inquire into the activity of believing, you will find y
ourself nibbling away at the very substance of the Self. Very, very scary, but utt
erly thrilling and immensely rewarding.
Did you ever consider how do you determine if what you believe is actually the c
ase? Well, if it is actually the case, it must therefore exists without the supp
ort of your belief so believing is an unnecessary activity. My honest investigat
ion into my acts of believing and one year of diligently applying the method of H
ow am I experiencing this moment of being alive has led me to experiencing the wo
rld in its magnificent, sensuous and delightful actuality unclouded and unfilter
ed by any emotions, feelings, beliefs or instincts.
Mr. Rajneesh may have said not to replace the beliefs of your primary conditioni
ng and first-hand beliefs, but he has certainly replaced them with his version o
f spiritual conditioning and beliefs.

14.1.1999
VINEETO: Osho may have said not to replace the beliefs of your secular condition
ing and beliefs, but he certainly replaced them with his version of spiritual co
nditioning and beliefs.
RESPONDENT: As I said before, I dont get that you hear me ... so since I am not a
ddicted to endlessly arguing, as apparently you both are ... Ill make this short.
Pray tell, what spiritual conditioning and beliefs did Osho replace in us?
VINEETO: So now we are investigating what is a belief and what is a fact, are we
? Remember, belief per dictionary means fervently wishing to be true, while fact m
eans what has really happened or is the case . You say that nothing that Osho trie
d to instil in us was based on belief, do you? Do you say that everything he tal
ked about were mere facts, evidenced by our senses? That one did not need to bel
ieve or trust what was said, one could simply see it, touch it, hear it, taste i
t or smell it?
I try to avoid battling with quotes, Osho said billions of words and everyone ma
kes their own interpretation of it. But since you seem to claim that there was n
o spiritual conditioning or any beliefs involved, I found some of his words that
point to his belief in God, divinity, soul, immortality, the mysterious inner sp
ace and the Universe as animated by divine intelligence
[Mohan Rajneesh]: God is all around you, but you are so full of scriptures, know
ledge, so full of your own ego that there is no space left inside you where God
can penetrate and enter into you. Ch. M. Rajneesh: The Beloved, Vol. 1, Ch 1
[Mohan Rajneesh]: And if we go still more deeply, then the child also chooses th
e time of its conception. Every soul chooses its own time of conception when it
will accept a womb, at which moment. The moment of conception is not insignifica
nt. It is significant in that it is a question of how the entire universe exists
at that moment, and to what sort of possibilities the universe opens the door a
t that moment. Ch. M. Rajneesh: Hidden Mysteries, Ch 5
[Mohan Rajneesh]: A man of sensitivity remains wherever he is and God seeks him.
Ch. M. Rajneesh: The Discipline of Transcendence, Vol 3, Ch 9
[Mohan Rajneesh]: Your unmoving centre becomes such a dance. And one who knows h
is centre, also knows his eternity, his immortality. Buddhas dont die, neither ar
e they born. They simply appear and disappear into the same ocean just like wave
s. You have to go deeper and deeper every day, you have to bring more and more o
f the Buddha to the circumference of your life. It happens, certainly I say it w
ith absolute authority because it has happened to me. Ch. M. Rajneesh: Rinzai: M
aster of The Irrational, Ch 2
As I said to No 10:
[Vineeto]: With Actual Freedom a second de-conditioning took place, a spiritual
de-conditioning. And again, I was ready for it, because after all those years of
sincere effort my search did not show the results I had been aiming for. This s
econd de-conditioning was much more radical and went far deeper than the first,
it is going to eliminate all of me, ego and soul, emotions and beliefs, instinct
s and spiritual achievements. It leaves me as this physical body with its senses,
free to delight in this pure, perfect and infinite universe as a sensate flesh-a
nd-blood human being. Nothing more, nothing less. Vineeto, List C, No 10, 13.1.1
999
Actual Freedom and the simple and effective method to achieving it is available

for everybody who wishes to go for the best presupposing that you are discontent
with your life as it is now.

21.1.1999
RESPONDENT: As I said before ... you missed Osho. All of what he said was to bre
ak with ritual, tradition, conditioning, and programmed mindset.
VINEETO: Yes, as I said, he was to break the tradition of the normal conditioning,
the programming that we had when we came to India. I never denied that he tried
to brainwash our minds from the conditioning of childhood and society. To a certain
extent he even succeeded and then he installed in us the beliefs of the spiritu
al world i.e. re-incarnation, eternal soul and karma, God as a Divine Universe,
afterlife, I am not the body, I am the watcher. These are the spiritual beliefs whic
h I have decided to investigate.
RESPONDENT: Now if your bent is to believe, for example, your belief that you ha
ve no ego, then you can make a belief out of anything.
VINEETO: Yes, you can make a belief out of anything, that is the nature of belie
f. It is produces in the head and the heart of the person who believes and has n
othing to do with facts.
This time, upon meeting Richard though, I was determined not to give up my belie
f in Osho for yet another belief. It all sounded great, plausible and sensible w
hat Richard said, but I did not want to just believe another authority. But what
Richard said made me prick up my ears and be interested enough to inquire as to
the facts of the whole spiritual situation, for myself.
So I started to investigate if what I had so long taken to be the Truth was factua
l or just fantasies of Ancient Wisdom. The deeper I looked, and the longer I inv
estigated, the more I had to admit that I had been sold a dummy. Yes, this fanta
sy is backed up by great feelings of bliss and love and it is supported by the b
elief of millions of people, but it is nevertheless a passionate fantasy, produc
ed in everyones head and in everyones heart. It is made of the same stuff as dream
s are made of. It is not factual as in corporeal, actual, tactile, material, phy
sical and tangible. It is not even sensible.
I dont believe that I have no ego. I examined each of my beliefs and each of the
many surfacing emotions and eliminated them in the light of awareness. Further I
discovered and investigated the underlying instincts that feed both ones beliefs
and emotions to the extent that they have now lost their power over me. In seei
ng them as the software they are I realised that they can be deleted. For the fi
rst time in history humans can free themselves from their animal heritage which
has raged in each of us and bound us since millennia. This journey to freedom is
more than just eliminating the ego, it is dissolving and eliminating the soul a
s well, the very core of my being.
RESPONDENT: But by rightly hearing Osho, one would see his whole effort is to de
stroy all beliefs.

VINEETO: He might have thought so himself, and yet it was a belief and not a fac
t that he is not the body, that he only visited this planet, that his soul is immorta
l and dissolves into the Whole, that real life starts after death thats whats the me
ning of Maha-Parinirvana, the true and great Nirvana after death. You can find man
y, many words for what he taught to be the truth still, it is just ancient Easte
rn beliefs. It needs trusting and believing, it needs surrender to the masters wi
sdom in order to keep up this imaginary world. The moment you stop feeding the b

elief, for instance in an afterlife or immortality, it will gradually disappear

and be revealed the mirage it is.
RESPONDENT: My insight into his messages is rather blunt. But I like it. I say a
ll that he said boils down to two messages. One is ... everything that you belie
ve is bullshit ...
VINEETO: Could it be that, for your convenience, you call belief what you have thr
own out, and label as truth, what you want to keep? If the very act of believing i
s bullshit, why do you believe in trust, in God, in surrender? As you say on your
web-site:
[Respondent]: All are lessons, on the way, god knows where, and nothing can be do
ne, but trust in life [endquote].
and to No 14 and to No 4 you said:
[Respondent]: unless there is trust and surrender, such as what can exist in a ma
ster/disciple relationship. [endquote].
It simply requires no trust to be here in the actual world as this flesh and blo
od body.
In my ruthless and relentless investigations of what are my beliefs and what are
facts, I found an amazing guideline: Everything that needs my doing in any form,
thinking, believing, feeling, intuiting, channelling etc. is not actual. Whateve
r is actual can be questioned and examined till the cows come home, it will stay
actual and factual. You can doubt the existence of a tree, it will still be the
re as a growing plant with a trunk and branches and leaves. But if you question
the soul, youll end up with nothing substantial. Applying this guideline to all m
y dearly held beliefs has been at times quite devastating but now I can be certa
in and confident for the first time about the facts that I had uncovered under t
he layer of passionate beliefs. Anything that requires belief or feeling such as
trust, surrender or hope is not actual it is obvious and devastatingly simple.
Trust is believing or hoping that something exists (ie that Existence cares for
us, that the Master knows what he is doing or talking about, that God is looking
after His children). Confidence, on the other hand, is knowing the facts as evi
denced by the physical senses.
RESPONDENT: ... and the second is ... I love you.
VINEETO: When I met Peter, and he proposed a living together without love but wi
th a direct intimacy, I thought, what a strange concept. And then I agreed because
I was intrigued. All my relationships based on love had failed, maybe this new c
oncept was a solution. It took two months until I dared to question my beliefs an
d emotions around love. What made it easier was that I could see that love betwe
en man and woman had not resulted in a peaceful and harmonious living between an
y of the couples that I knew. Removing love from the way I related to Peter made
it possible for the first time to experience an actual intimacy. Intimacy is se
eing the other simply as another human being, without hopes, expectations, inter
pretation, conditioning, affective appreciation or depreciation. Intimacy is see
ing and experiencing the other as he/she actually is.

To extend my scrutiny into the nature of love to my master-disciple relationship,

investigating and questioning Divine Love, Love Agap and Compassion was much more di
cult. But then I slowly understood, and later experienced it in an Altered State
of Consciousness myself, that the principle of relating to other people is the
same in human love and in Divine Love: a self, this time the grand Self, is relating
o the other person, the lower self who needs love, compassion and help. Both self as

much as Self use the other to confirm themselves in their particular identity. Th
e Awakened One still has an identity in operation: Me, the glorious Self is re-creat
ing itself with each interaction.
Love is an affection that is addressed towards someone (human love) or All (Divi
ne Love). It needs people needing and wanting love for love to be maintained. Theref
ore it is not actual.
A simple experiment will reveal the fact of what I am writing. In a moment of lov
e for all stop giving it to someone, or, when alone, stop addressing it to others
in your imagination. The feeling of Love wont be able to stay. It can only be fe
lt when continuously directed towards someone other than oneself.
When love and divine love disappear in the light of bare awareness, actual intim
acy is possible for the first time. When the loving, compassionate Self dies or is
temporarily absent the actual world becomes apparent. The moment when the one w
ho you think and feel you are becomes extinct, you are intimate with everyone you me
et and everything you experience.
See, in this moment I am intimate to you, a fellow human being, writing to you a
bout my experiences and understanding on this particular issue. Sharing with you
what I found out about beliefs, about love and divine love. I have experienced
the difference between love and intimacy, and intimacy in its directness and pur
ity far exceeds any love. Love can only be a synthetic substitute for the intima
cy that we all long for. Without a self I am intimate with everything around me an
d everyone I talk to. We are both fellow human beings, both fascinated to find o
ut about this business of being a human being after all, we are all here for the
first time. When no affections are clouding the conversation, a real and fruitf
ul discussion is possible.

29.1.1999
RESPONDENT No. 4: What makes it impossible to talk together is the total lack of
flexibility exposed by you to understand the meaning implied in others words. It
seems to me you are only able to understand your own terminology.
RESPONDENT: I totally agree. And what was play, has become boring. It is futile.
I quit. No more. Finito Vineeto, and Peter. Enough is enough.
VINEETO: O.K., fair enough this is your freedom, and you say you had enough of t
his kind of play. As a good-bye present I want to send you a laugh, just that we
dont end on a serious note. I hope you enjoy this joke as much as I did. I could
nt stop giggling.

RESPONDENT: So, which one is you?

VINEETO: The blonde one with the biggest titts if you believe it.

30.1.1999
VINEETO: How are you?

RESPONDENT to No 33: ..., just curious, are you and No 14 sisters? You both have
a similar vibe. Now if Peter could help make you two happy and harmless, that w
ould indeed be doing something great.
VINEETO: I find it fascinating, you are actually becoming interested in happines
s and harmlessness you are proposing to someone else becoming happy and harmless
, so maybe it is not such a terribly thing to consider, after all?
If you wish that on No 33 or No 14, why not for yourself? Dont you want to be hap
py and harmless as well?
The trouble is, nobody else can make you happy and harmless, you have to do it f
or yourself.
And what a thrilling journey it is!

This Correspondence Continued

Mailing List C Index
Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===
=====
c-corr29.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence to Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 29

Topics covered
Superiority, identity of the feeler * supposed misunderstandings, web site

1.2.1999
VINEETO: I can only be free without feeling that I am in an advanced state, withou
t being the One in the advanced state. The moment there is a feeling superior, a feel
ing advanced, a feeling grand, then the self has found yet another identity to thrive

on...
RESPONDENT: So true and so obvious.
VINEETO: You have cut out the second half of the quote, which answered No. 8s que
stion. Ill give the full reference:
[Respondent No 8]: But is now
all the people who are still
l, those who are beginning to
you be free and aware without

the whole of you

completely stuck
find a way out
identifying with

in its own perception better than

in the human condition and as wel
albeit a false, spiritual one? Can
that advanced state?

[Vineeto]: I can only be free without feeling that I am in an advanced state, with
out being the One in the advanced state. The moment there is a feeling superior, a fe
eling advanced, a feeling grand, then the self has found yet another identity to thri
ve on.
But living in this magnificent actual world, without a self in the road of experie
ncing intimacy with every thing, event or person is, in fact, vastly superior to
anything else I have ever experienced in my life. With my disappearance I am able
to do what is happening, at ease, every single moment in my life.
RESPONDENT: So true and so obvious.
VINEETO: What is so true and obvious?
Is your comment a remark that feeling and the feeler are the problem and that you ha
ve known it all along? The feeling as in feeling sadness, feeling anger, feeling l
ove, feeling bliss, feeling God, feeling Oneness? The feeler as in being in the hea
rt, the soul, Atman, Essence? Do you say that that is so true and so obvious to you
?
Or do you mean that you think that Vineeto feels superior to someone else?
Feeling superior is but a quaint substitute to the vast superiority compared to
anything else I have ever experienced in my life. It is vastly superior to being
the watcher, being the disciple, being the seeker or being the experiencer.
But instead of objecting or feeling about it you could, just as an option, check o
ut why it is so superior and how to achieve it for yourself.
Lets say, I offer you a vacuum-cleaner called a self-demolishing method. I tell you t
hat it works wonders, you will only need to apply it yourself. I tell you that i
t is far superior to the old way of cleaning with a broom and dustpan.
What would be your reaction? Blame me for claiming to be superior? Or check out
if the vacuum-cleaner is really superior to the broom and dustpan used up to now
?
It is the method and the result of the method that is superior, not me. It complet
ely demolishes any I that would be feeling anything, superior or inferior, angry o
r sad, compassionate, blissful, desperate, murderous or just annoyed. What is le
ft is the blithesome at-easeness as a sensate and reflective human being.
The only thing I say is that it works.

2.2.1999

VINEETO: I can only be free without feeling that I am in an advanced state, withou
t being the One in the advanced state. The moment there is a feeling superior, a feel
ing advanced, a feeling grand, then the self has found yet another identity to thrive
on...
RESPONDENT: So true and so obvious.
VINEETO: What is so true and obvious?
Is your comment a remark that feeling and the feeler are the problem and that you ha
ve known it all along? The feeling as in feeling sadness, feeling anger, feeling l
ove, feeling bliss, feeling God, feeling Oneness? The feeler as in being in the hea
rt, the soul, Atman, Essence? Do you say that that is so true and so obvious to you
?
RESPONDENT: This refers to: the moment there is ...identity to thrive on.
*
VINEETO: Or do you mean that you think that Vineeto feels superior to someone else
?
RESPONDENT: No I didnt imply this.
I did not blame you for being superior and this was not my intention, strange yo
u interpreted it in this way.
VINEETO: What I understand from your letter is that these remarks are not questi
ons or issues to be discussed but rather notes on the side of a script you read,
in black or red ink. I know some people who like to read books and write their
comments on the side. It took me a while to understand that there was no intenti
on on your side to discuss the issues at hand.
The only thing I dont understand is, why did you send these comments to me?
*
VINEETO: The only thing I say is that it works.
RESPONDENT: I did understand this, this device may be interesting, Im going to se
ek out for myself.
VINEETO: For more reading, there is always Richards and our combined web-sites: h
ttp://www.actualfreedom.com.au/default.htm.
I wish you good fun exploring.

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.

Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===

=====
c-corr23.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 23

Topics covered
Living together, intelligence * mind / brain, Universal Love * state of being, i
dentity * witness , bare awareness, salty sex, born again Christian, fuck off and
die somewhere else * death of self, heart, purity and perfection, 180 degrees oppo
site, spiritual Truths * instinctual fear, avoid facts, utter stillness

18.1.1999
RESPONDENT to No 4: Why do you allow yourself to be in any way affected by this
persons poison, this person is quite obviously a mind dweller and mind dwellers l
ove to mind fuck, it is their expertise. Just watch these experts disappear up t
heir own arses if you just give them enough rope. Vineeto can always surrender t
o that, but that is really up to existence, she or he is just playing in a play th
ey think they are running. To wake that play up would take a Master and unfortun
ately for them the Master is dead!
VINEETO: What you call this persons poison, mind dwellers and so on, is, for instance
, the ability to live with a man in peace, harmony and equity for 24 hours a day
, every day. It sounds very simple, yet, I have not met anyone or talked to anyo
ne who was able to confirm that they did just that.
This possibility to be able to live with a man in peace and harmony was one of t
he things that attracted me to Actual Freedom, and already within 6 months time
it worked. This success alone far exceeded what I had been able to achieve throu
gh meditation and therapy, and for me, it speaks for itself. Because to live wit
h one person of the opposite sex in permanent peace, harmony and equity proves t
hat it is possible for everyone and therefore peace on earth is possible. For me
, it is the fire test.
RESPONDENT: Dear Night, If your offering your head and I dont in any way believe
you really are, I will take it for you.
love and piracy
VINEETO: No, I dont offer my head, I appreciate my brain, my intelligence and my
apperceptiveness. I have got rid of my heart, my conditioning and many of my ins
tinctual passions, but it is too late to offer them to you. The garbage man has
emptied the bin already. You will need to hunt somewhere else.

21.1.1999
RESPONDENT: Dear Night, If your offering your head and I dont in any way believe
you really are, I will take it for you, love and piracy
VINEETO: No, I dont offer my head, I appreciate my brain, my intelligence and my
apperception. I have got rid of my heart, my conditioning and my instincts, but
it is too late to offer them to you. The garbage man has emptied the bin already
. You will need to hunt somewhere else.
RESPONDENT: When the garbage man came he missed your mind, either that or he rep
laced it with one you think does not exist! Mind is mind, whether it is a nice m
ind or a not so nice mind, mind is mind!
VINEETO: Mind is a fascinating word. By using it the way the East has used the w
ord, it means you are to throw out your whole thinking capacity, stop thought in
whatever form and then, one day, you will be in mind-less bliss and live on for
ever in Union with the Universal Mind as an eternal spirit.
And yet, there was something in the understanding that mind should be the problem
that appealed to me thats why I searched for enlightenment. Mind, our brain is also
wired with the social and cultural conditioning, with belief-systems, with fixe
d thinking patterns, self-centred behaviour and self-centred outlook and this pa
rt of the brain (mind) is certainly an essential reason for unhappiness and viol
ence. This part of the mind we identify with as the self and it certainly needs to
be tackled.
But mind, our brain, consists of much more it is also the capacity for common sens
e, for intelligent reflection, for practical investigation, for in-depth contemp
lation. But in order to ascertain the clear functioning of the brain you have to
remove the psychological and the psychic entity residing within yourself.
The self-centred neurosis of Human Nature is identified in the East as the probl
em with human beings but the Eastern religions attempt to eradicate only half of
the problem. They aim to eradicate the ego, the mind, who we think we are, while
ignoring the soul, who we feel we are. The resultant attack on, or repression of
, all thoughts and thinking (and not just the self-centred neurosis) eventuates
in the complete denial of intelligent thought such as can be readily seen by the
Easts lack of technological progress, appalling poverty, repression of women, th
eocratic empires, and a disastrous standard of health and environment.
RESPONDENT: Next time you see this garbage man give him a good piece of your min
d for frauding you!
VINEETO: The garbage man was only a figure of speech. There is nobody needed, no
body to be relied on and nobody to blame if you fail. You can actually fix yours
elf up. Just as the body repairs itself, so can the brain be re-wired. As it bec
omes re-wired free of the primitive brain and its instinctual fear and aggressio
n by applying generous doses of bare awareness, common sense and practicality, a
vast and actual freedom becomes increasingly apparent. The brain is the tool: I
apply liberal doses of common sense to the affected areas and watch the beliefs
fade away. Facts replace beliefs. It is so simple and it works.
RESPONDENT to No 14: Just because these two, Vineeto and Peter, have awakened yo
u to something you could not see in the way Osho did his awakening, does not mean
they have come any further than anybody else!
These people appear to be total mind fuckers, I may be wrong but I dont think so.

They are just in

ew mind is just a
kind and patient
different taste,

the process of exchanging one type of mind for another. This n

little more supple and sly, it appears to be a very nice mind,
and in love with its own sweetness! The taste of no mind has a
like the ocean it is always salty, remind you of anything?

VINEETO: Maybe this is how it appears to you, that Peter and I are total mind-fu
ckers, because thats how you define the opposite of Universal Love. But Universal
Love is as much part of the problem as the ego.
To be the universe experiencing itself as a sensate and reflective human being i
s such a delight and perfection, that it leaves Universal Love far, far behind.
The freedom and simplicity of simply doing what is happening, the intimacy of me
eting other human beings without the burden of any identity both ego and soul is
deliciously fulfilling. No love (human or divine) can offer anything of that qu
ality.
So, even if it looks so from your side, it is not mind-fucking. The word mind is t
oo hackneyed by the spiritual people and thus too confusing to be of any use. I
prefer the words common sense, practical intelligence, clarity and reflection.

26.1.1999
RESPONDENT: What you might call the witness or the watcher is just the state of
being without thought. It is consciousness, being without thinking!
VINEETO: What you are trying to tell me is just a psittacism of Eastern teaching
. That does not make it a fact.
I take it that this sentence is supposed to be an answer to my last letter to yo
u where I wrote:
[Vineeto]: The self-centred neurosis of Human Nature is identified in the East as
the problem with human beings but the Eastern religions attempt to eradicate on
ly half of the problem. They aim to eradicate the ego, the mind, who we think we a
re, while ignoring the soul, who we feel we are. The resultant attack on, or rep
ression of, all thoughts and thinking (and not just the self-centred neurosis) e
ventuates in the complete denial of intelligent thought such as can be readily s
een by the Easts lack of technological progress, appalling poverty, repression of
women, theocratic empires, and a disastrous standard of health and environment.
[endquote].
This state of being without thought is exactly the problem. The affective identi
ty of this thoughtless being is fully alive and kicking, causing even more havoc n
ow that all sensible thought is removed. Nobody wants to acknowledge that it is
the feeling faculty that is the main problem with the Human Condition, and nobody
has even bothered to acknowledge or investigate the instinctual emotions of fear
, aggression, nurture and desire at the very core of being.
You may not yet be aware that my emphasis is upon examining and eliminating the
feelings affective feelings that cause our thoughts to dominate the brain the wa
y they do. Thought the only tool that can bring about peace-on-earth in this lif
e is denigrated so much ... and the feelings that infiltrate thought get always
off scot-free. Maybe re-examining the whole concept of mind as being the problem w
ould give you some insight into the actual world as opposed to the spiritual and
affective world of no-mind. Just have a good look at the outcome of life in the E
ast!

28.1.1999
RESPONDENT: I assure you that Im not talking about an eastern ideal or philosophy
. The experience of the witness Im describing is my current personal experience,
for me it is a fact! If you are experiencing some other personality in this spac
e of being that you call witnessing, as far as Im concerned you are not just witn
essing!
VINEETO: I dont doubt your personal experience but, who is witnessing? And who told
you to develop that witness in the first place? Who is so firmly convinced about
this personal experience? Who is this witnessing entity inside of you? What would
happen if this witnessing entity stopped being the witness? What would be left?
When bare awareness happens, there is no entity that can identify itself as being
one with everything, being love, being anything at all. With bare awareness you are
this flesh and blood body only, your eyes seeing, your ears hearing... no love,
no bliss, no oneness with anything.
RESPONDENT: There is no personality in this space what so ever. There is no me i
n this space! There is just witnessing! Feelings are nothing more than subtle th
oughts, and Im not talking to you about thoughts, Im talking to you about what I e
xperience when there are no thoughts! There is no female or male in witnessing,
just being!
VINEETO:
that the
rom this
y, it is

Just being is still an identity. It is the most subtle of all identities

self can produce, and yet it is on honest investigation distinguishable f
flesh and blood body, it is a something or someone inside your physical bod
a passionate imagination.

RESPONDENT: I have taken the time to read some of your long winded postings, and
as far as I can see you are talking about spaces of the mind that you are exper
iencing, whether that be body mind spaces or pure mind spaces, and there is no d
ifference really! Mind is mind! In witnessing, there is no-mind! I am in no way
negating the intelligence of the mind, the mind is useful! I am saying there is
being beyond it!
VINEETO: You can go beyond the beyond the beyond, and get even further away from
the actual world, your identity just further removed from life, from your body,
your senses and the perfection of this moment. The actual world is 180 degrees
in the opposite direction from where you are searching, not being beyond it at all
. But the point of what I am saying is that this magical, fairy tale-like world o
f perfection and purity doesnt need to be believed to exist ... unlike the Greater
Reality ... which only exists because it is believed by all.
Then you are saying in the second post:
[Respondent]: In your case I now believe the watcher is a sub personality. But I m
ust inform you that the witness that I am is not a thought form, it is simply be
ing ness! It is not a sub-personality.
I must admit that before I was aware of my nothingness. I had a lot of belief sy
stems as to the nature of reality. After all, if you have not experienced being
the universe, all you can do is believe it as a possibility. You can sell your b
elief in the mind as much as you like, it does not take away my personal experie
nce of not being and being everything in the universe at once! [endquote].
And in your last post you said:
[Respondent]: The taste of no mind has a different taste, like the ocean it is a

lways salty, remind you of anything? [endquote].

And to No 14:
[Respondent]: Dear, I was talking in a sexual sense! [endquote].

How do you have salty sex? Does your beingness and your nothingness get intertwined
with your lovers beingness and not-beingness? Since you are everything in the univers
at once, does your lover never complain that you are somewhere else? Just to think
about it, having sex with someone being everything in the universe at once, I wou
ld really get lost in space... I prefer an actual penis stimulating an actual va
gina, thank you.
Contrary to your assumption, I did experience being the Universe and I gave a deta
iled description to No 12.
RESPONDENT: You remind me very much of the born again Christians, they love to f
log their Jesus will save you if you welcome him into your heart and ask to be fo
rgiven. You seem to be saying The mind will save you if you strip it down, welcome
it and accept it for what it is! The mind is so small compared to everything!
VINEETO: If you read my posts more carefully, you will notice that I make a diff
erence between clarity and the native intelligence of the brain on one side, and
the thoughts and emotions in a self-possessed, instinctually driven brain. Mind, as
eastern philosophy and religion use the term, is only considering the thoughts
not the emotions and instincts, and by proposing No-mind they are negating thinkin
g altogether. But once you have cleaned your brain from the alien entity inside
of you ego and soul there is no problem with thinking at all.
RESPONDENT: Why dont you try selling it to some other mind dwellers. (Christians
could be a challenge). But why dont you FUCK OFF and die somewhere else! Or just sh
ift to a psychology based list where Im sure you can waffle on for a life time! N
o 23, the Osho lover
VINEETO: At least you seem to know that I am talking about the death of the self,
and you state that you are not interested. One of your mind spaces has come back t
o life and is kicking again. This is exactly my point, that in just watching and
being the witness those primary emotions and instinctual passions dont disappear,
they are at the most transcended. You go from one corner of the self into another
corner of the self, now called That. You never leave the self behind. You never step
ut of the Human Condition of sorrow and malice, nurture and desire. Watching and
meditation is like rearranging the furniture on the Titanic, fiddling with mino
r issues while you would better leave the ship of the self and of being altogether.
And, as you can see, those emotions can come back any time.
RESPONDENT: I know this wont effect you as you have removed yourself from your he
art and other unimportant things!
VINEETO: The other way round again: I have removed feelings and emotions from me
, not removed myself from my heart. The Heart or Soul is only a passionate imagine
d entity, felt as real, but not actual.
Go into your Heart means focus on the good feelings and negate and sublimate the b
ad feelings. Once you experience the purity and perfection of being without any
self whatsoever in a pure consciousness experience, you strive to get rid of the
very act of believing and feeling itself, you aim to get rid of the see-saw of
feelings, both good and bad. And it works. By focussing on the felicitous feelin
gs instead of feeling good and bad, one can investigate and eventually eliminate ones
beliefs and feelings and in the end extinguish the very source where emotions a
rise our animal instincts.

Only then can you experience the purity and magic of this actual world.

29.1.1999
VINEETO: Since you commented about Peter, Vineeto and Richard, I consider it app
ropriate to comment on your comment.
RESPONDENT to Respondent No 8: The mind will always look for an answer it thinks
it can answer. These people: Peter, Vineeto and Richard have opted for a psycho
logical answer to a question their minds cannot answer. That question is Who am I.
This question cannot be answered by the mind, it can only be experienced withou
t the mind! For truly hard and fast head fuckers, this is a really hard path to
follow! It involves the surrender of the mind, a product of which is the opening
of the heart. I love your questioning of everything, all your belief systems wa
rrant examination.
It is not my belief system that is in place when I say, who you are is beyond th
e mind; it is my experience!
VINEETO: You are speaking from the spiritual world. The actual world lies 180 de
grees in the opposite direction. An actualist could translate what you are sayin
g into something like this:
The identity will always look for an answer it thinks or feels it can answer; th
ese people the spiritual seekers have opted for a spirit-ual and other-worldly ans
wer to a question which their practical common sense has not been able to answer
. That question is, What am I? This question cannot be answered by the heart or th
e soul, it can only be experienced without any psychic entity whatsoever! For tr
uly hard and fast soul-fuckers, this is a really almost impossible path to follo
w! It involves the death of the identity, which is a product of instincts, belie
fs and emotions.
It is not a belief system when I say, who you think you are and who you feel you are
is an identity that can be eliminated it is my everyday experience!
RESPONDENT: A life unexamined is a life unlived.
VINEETO: Well said. Why stop examination at spiritual so-called Truths?

30.1.1999
VINEETO: You have now sent me a copy of your letter from 2 days ago, this time y
ou left out the following sentence:
RESPONDENT: But why dont you FUCK OFF and die somewhere else!
VINEETO: This was a sincere statement. Why did you leave it out?
You say die somewhere else. Is it that you dont want to hear about the subject? An
honest statement. Who would want to? No self wants to die. Every single self of the
5.8 billion people on this planet wants to survive, as somebody, as nobody, as a h
eart-felt being.
I will do everything to hinder the investigation, to obstruct my death. It is a very
natural and instinctual fear. So much to loose...

But then, on a closer look I found that what I thought I wanted to keep was not
really worth much. A miserable, lonely life, meditating my head off and becoming
more and more remote from a world that I had set out to enjoy. When I left Germ
any for the East to take Sannyas, I had set out to become more happy, more at ea
se with myself and with the world. But it was only after I questioned the normal
world as well as the spiritual world, am I now able to be really at ease. And f
or that not only my ego but also me, my soul and my very being have to die.
Thats just how it is. One can say fuck off and avoid the facts or face them, finish
the search and finally arrive.
As Richard says it to the point:
Richard: When the ultimate moment happens, one finds that one has gone beyond ev
erything. Nothing remains, only utter stillness abounds. The perfection and puri
ty of the stillness is impossible to imagine it has to be lived to be known. The
journey is over, one has arrived at ones destination. Ones destiny is here. Richa
rds Journal, Article 23

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===
=====
c-corr18.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 18

Topics covered
Masks, fear, how am I experiencing ..., love, hope, innocence * instincts , peak
experience, tried and failed solutions to fear, sensuousness * idea of God, beli
efs, filter of self, good and bad emotions * eliminating soul, PCE, being in the h
eart, imagination, retreating from the world, ego and soul * cutting down Osho, Ch
icago hospital, aggression, facts, loyalty * Richard ? * rebellion , authority,
search / arriving in the actual world * purpose , life after death, fear of deat
h


13.11.1998
VINEETO: Hi,
Your poem has inspired me to respond to a few of your statements. I assume that
you not only use the words as poetic terms, but convey through your poetry actua
l emotions and convictions...
[Respondent]: Dont be fooled by the face I wear, For I wear a thousand masks, And
none of them are me
Dont be fooled, for Gods sake, dont be fooled, I give the impression that Im secure
That confidence is my name, and coolness is my game, And that I need no one, but
dont believe me
Underneath lies the real me, In aloneness, confusion, in fear,
Thats why I create a mask to hide behind, To shield me from the glance that knows
. [endquote].
In my experience there are two ways to deal with fear, once I have identified th
e emotion as fear: pretending that it was only a short glimpse of an understandi
ng about the manifestations of fear, but of no significance to or impact on my l
ife, except for the beauty of the words that expressed the fear...
Or, I acknowledge that I have this fear, these masks just like everyone else and
I am ready to do something about it, because I dont want to continue my life in
fear and hiding.
About a year ago I choose to take the second option and was very successful in e
liminating most of the human fears I was born with and grew up by. It is possibl
e, despite what everybody else has been trying to say. We can change our destiny
!
[Respondent]: But such a glance is precisely my salvation, That is, if it is fol
lowed by acceptance, If it is followed by love
It is the only thing that can liberate me, From my self-built prison walls [endq
uote].
Well, I would say, from my experience and from common sense, that love is not go
ing to be liberating. It only makes one more dependant of others and confused as
to what you are or want to do. You yourself state this:
[Respondent]: I am afraid deep that down I am nothing, And that I am no good, An
d that you will see this and reject me
So begins the parade of masks, Idle chatter with you, I tell you everything thats
really nothing
And nothing of whats everything, of whats crying within me [endquote].
The cunningness of showing masks to others in order to be loved was exactly the
prison that I have felt myself throughout my life and that have tried to become
free of. When I acknowledged that nobody can redeem me but myself, it all became
much easier. I actually got off my bum and cleaned myself up from everything th

at I did not like about myself: anger, jealousy, need, greed, fear, malice, bitc
hing and depression, by asking myself over and over this very simple question:
How am I experiencing this moment of being alive?
Whenever I was not happy, I had something to look at, and I would trace its root
s, its underlying beliefs and so cherished emotions and identities. This way my
self became thinner and thinner and I became more and more happy and harmless, e
liminating sorrow and malice.
[Respondent]: Please listen carefully to what Im not saying, Id really love to be
genuine, and spontaneous, and me
But youve got to help me, Youve got to hold out your hand, Each time you are kind,
gentle, and encouraging
Each time you try to understand because you really care [endquote].
I dont find it attractive any more to be dependant on somebody who has to
derstand me. One is then completely in their power, dances to their flute,
ts the dependency and usually ends up in trouble again and again. Isnt to
of all this the greater and more realistic goal? To be free and enjoy
ny of another in complete freedom, what delight!

really un
resen
be free
the compa

[Respondent]: My heart begins to grow wings, Very feeble wings, but wings
With you sensitivity, sympathy, and power of understanding
You alone can release me from my shallow world of uncertainty, It will not be ea
sy for you
The nearer you approach me the blinder I may strike out, Im told that love is str
onger than the strongest of walls
And in this lies my hope, my only hope, Please try to beat down these walls, Wit
h firm hands, but gentle hands
For I am sensitive, Who am I, you may wonder, I am every man you meet, And I am
every woman that you meet
And I am you, also. [endquote].
This hope you talk about, this only hope is at the same time the trap in which one
finds oneself imprisoned, hiding and opening like an oyster, as the whim takes
one. Once I stopped believing that love is the only way out, I could see that it
has not worked for the thousands of years that humans have lived on earth there
has never been eternal love, never been peace on earth, never been harmony betw
een man and woman, let alone equity. By questioning and eliminating love I have
experienced an intimacy with another human being, so delicious, so free, so magi
cal that it leaves any love previously experienced far far behind.

30.11.1998
RESPONDENT: Thank you for your response on the list.
The poem Masks I sent to the list was written by another person. I read it and sen
t it because it was appropriate at the time.

I would not have written that poem, even though there were some sentences in the
poem that applied to me as well as to someone else. It was an action that happe
ned at the spur of the moment.
Your explanation brings a lot of truth about the condition that occurs in relati
onships though. Most of our actions and reactions are motivated by an intrinsic
fear. We have deep fears of survival, of earning enough money and of being able
to support ourselves. We have fears of being sexually dysfunctional, inadequate
or impotent. We have deep fears of being unloved, fears of being rejected and un
wanted. We have fears of being disrespected, abused, ignored, put down, fears of
confronting someone, fears of knowing who we really are. We have fears of not b
eing able to express ourselves, of being insignificant. At a deeper level, there
is always a fear of emptiness and death, which probably underlies all other fea
rs.
VINEETO: Yes, I agree with you on your explicit list of fears. Looking back in m
y life those fears have been the reason why I rejected life in normal society an
d went to the East to find the solution, a way out of those torturing fear and i
ts ensuing depression in my case.
RESPONDENT: We are all wounded children who react to different situations based on
our own early life trauma. The fears of pressure and expectation, of rejection
and abandonment, of being ignored or misunderstood as children.
VINEETO: What you say does not really explain everything as to where these fears
come from. Psychologist and psychoanalysts have not completely understood the f
act that human beings are born with instincts, the same instincts that animals a
re equipped with to secure survival in the wild. Many psychs believe that childr
en are born as Tabula Rasa, an empty sheet of paper to be written on by society. B
ut if you watch babies and small children, they are not innocent at all. They ha
ve greed and malice already in them, erupting at different occasions displaying
our animal heritage.
These survival instincts consist basically of fear, aggression, nurture and desi
re. Christians call them original sin, the East sees it as karma. These instinctua
l passions are being formed, conditioned, interpreted and channelled according t
o different societies through the usual conditioning of childhood and adolescenc
e. The self is being formed.
Up to now everybody has believed that we cannot get rid of our instincts, that t
hey are hardware. The only solution on offer has been to transcend ones body-mind a
nd emerge into an ethereal state of love, bliss and maybe enlightenment.
Richard discovered that we can actually eliminate our instincts, not only transc
end them. The difference is that neither body nor the intelligent part of the br
ain have to be discarded or transcended, but we simply clean ourselves from our
software the animal instincts and the sense of self. It is now possible to live
in the world, with all the pleasures the senses can provide, but without fear, a
ggression, nurture and desire.
The method is to question not only what we call ego, but also our emotions, beli
efs and instinctual reactions, trace them down to their roots and understand the
ir workings. The tricky bit is that we are so used to seeing everything through
the eyes and context of the self, this separate entity inside the body. Thats whe
re the peak-experience becomes important. Since it is a completely new and radic
ally different approach and 180 degrees opposite spiritual beliefs, I give you R
ichards definition of a peak-experience:
Richard: pure consciousness experience (PCE) A PCE is when ones sense of identity
temporarily vacates the throne and apperception occurs. Apperception is the minds

perception of itself it is a pure awareness . Normally the mind perceives throu

gh the senses and sorts the data received according to its predilection; but the
mind itself remains unperceived ... it is taken to be unknowable. Apperception
is when the thinker and the feeler is not and an unmediated awareness occurs.
The pure consciousness experience is as if one has eyes in the back of ones head;
there is a three hundred and sixty degree awareness and all is self-evidently c
lear. This is knowing by direct experience, unmoderated by any self whatsoever. O
ne is able to see that I and me have been standing in the way of the perfection and
purity that is the essential character of this moment of being here becoming app
arent. Here a solid and irrefutable native intelligence can operate freely becau
se the thinker and the feeler is in abeyance. One is the universe s experience of its
elf as a human being ... after all, the very stuff this body is made of is the v
ery stuff of the universe. There is no outside to the perfection of the universe t
o come from; one only thought and felt that one was a separate identity.
Apperception is something that brings the facticity born out of a direct experie
nce of the actual . Then what one is (what not who) is these sense organs in operati
on: this seeing is me, this hearing is me, this tasting is me, this touching is
me, this smelling is me, and this thinking is me. Whereas I, the identity, am insi
de the body : looking out through my eyes as if looking out through a window, list
ening through my ears as if they were microphones, tasting through my tongue, touchi
ng through my skin, smelling through my nose, and thinking through my brain.
Of course I must feel isolated, alienated, alone and lonely, for I am cut off from t
he magnificence of the actual world the world as-it-is by my very presence. Actual
Freedom Trust Library
Relying on the confidence of the peak-experience it is possible to start and que
stion ones beliefs and determine the facts, distinguish silly and sensible and an
d dig into ones conditioning.
RESPONDENT: Instead of staying with the fear, when it comes up, we run away from
it and do not allow ourselves to go through it and understand it.
This is where compensation comes in. The idea that if we felt anything other tha
n fear in terms of being with friends who like us, or being in the wrong relatio
nship just because the other person worships us, we blanket our fears with a ban
daid, until the hurt goes away.
VINEETO: Well observed.
RESPONDENT: I think that in order to confront our fears, we have to validate the
m. We have to recognize that they are there and look for where they come from. A
s children, we were not taught to be in touch with our fear, so how can we, as a
dults, be aware of our fears if we are not even in touch with them? We cover the
m with protection, denial and unconsciousness, hiding our vulnerability with a ma
sk as it is one way that we need to protect ourselves.
One way or another we manage, pretending that everything is okay. We have learne
d how to cope. We remain hypnotized by our coping trance, not realizing how much f
ear we are covering inside. That is the point of the poem Masks. That which comes
from a person who exposes this fear by admitting that he wears many masks. It is
something that strikes a cord with me and I assume with a lot of people.
VINEETO: Yes, I understand what you want to point out. The problem is that none
of the tried and true methods to deal with fear has had any valuable solution appl
icable for everyone. Love, which is sought to be the solution has failed to brin
g peace to the world, since at least 2500 years of teachings of love and compass
ion.

Thats why I was moved to consider Richards outrageous statement that love itself i
s part of the problem. Investigating into myself and together with Peter I have
found it factual. Love creates a cover on top of fear or aggression, it does not
eliminate fear or aggression. I am not merely repeating what I have heard, this
is my very experience. I have had experiences of Divine Love, of days being fille
d with overwhelming and sweet love and I could have started a guru-ship then and
there. I do have genuine experience of the delusion it is.
On the other hand, uncovering and eliminating fear and aggression leaves me in a
n exquisite delicious purity, where I can be intimate with everyone I meet, actu
ally and physically here, fully in my senses and delighting to use my intelligen
ce as much as experiencing the pleasures of the senses. This actual world does n
ot need to be proved, it exists in its own right. It only has to be discovered b
y removing veil after veil of emotions, instincts, fears and beliefs.
I know, it is a radical discovery, as radical as Galileos discovery of the earth
not being the centre of the solar system. There are more people objecting to it
than I have hair on my head. What gives me the courage to stand alone against my
riad objections is the experience of this actual world during long and repeatedl
y happening peak-experiences. Beliefs can be shattered, facts stay facts, no mat
ter how many people disagree to those facts.
And furthermore, it is so utterly fulfilling, delicious, self-evident and immens
ely pleasurable to be here and alive, to meet people as they are, human beings,
not as projections of my desires and fears, that it is worth to die for it psych
ically, not physically.
RESPONDENT: Love to you and, by the way, I appreciate your open and gracious hon
esty.
VINEETO: It has been a pleasure writing to you, telling yet again a bit more of
my curious story. Should you be interested in learning more about Actual Freedom
, have a look what Peter wrote about Living Together, Love and Sex .
For further discussion I invite you to join our mailing list, so other people ha
ve the pleasure of our conversation as well.

9.1.1999
RESPONDENT: I actually missed you from the sannyas list. I must admit that yours
and Peters posts were interesting and educational. I still have a problem with n
egating the idea that there is a God ... to me all is God or Existence or All Th
at Is ... whatever you want to call it. Negating that is really negating yoursel
f.
VINEETO: Thank you for your mail. It is nice to see that at least a few people n
oticed our absence and even missed ours posts.
I can see the point that it is not easy to negate the idea that there is a God.
Because negating the idea of God is negating your self.
For me, the idea of taking Sannyas in 1980 was to find a solution to the trouble
s I found in myself and in everyone around me. I had explored politics, womens li
beration and social work and found all of them lacking to provide a solution. Th
en Osho offered the solution to the problems both personal and global by dissolv
ing the ego, becoming enlightened. I went for it full of enthusiasm and devotion
, determined to find the answer. After 17 years I still had achieved no substant

ial improvement in my life, nor could I see it in other seekers.

When I met Peter (and Richard) and they talked about a new approach, to question
all the beliefs and eliminate not only the ego, but the soul, I was very hesita
nt. Really? But, everybody believes, and everybody feels. What about life after
death, what about the bliss forever and ever in enlightenment? I wanted eternal
reward for my efforts, for my suffering, not just here-now. And I was very afrai
d to lose my self.
But then, I had already started to question my conditioning, my primary beliefs
in sannyas, I had already started to doubt my behaviour as part of this insidiou
s self or ego. Could it be that my very limited success was due to that I had not do
ne it totally, that I had not questioned the second part of me, the soul, the Sel
f? To question not only the bad emotions like anger, sadness, jealousy or rage, b
ut also the good emotions like love, friendship, intuition, unselfishness and co
mpassion was a radical step.
But one thing I had already understood in sannyas, that everything that I create
in my head or heart is part of me and not to be relied upon. So I gathered all
my courage and stopped to believe the stories my head produced without interrupt
ion. The effect was enormous. I literally came here for the first time that I can
remember. Here meaning, the filter of the self was temporarily not functioning and I
saw the world as it is, without the story we usually create out of what we see,
hear, taste or smell. Everything just existed in its own right. Clear, perfect,
magically alive, thriving, wondrous, pure, obvious and self-evidently here with
out needing any God or force or love to be able to exist. Just here. Just this.
And I am conscious of it without being separated and without having any kind of
connection with it either.
And I had come here by stopping to believe anything, stopping to create anything.
Thats what made the experience so pure. There was no me polluting the perfection of
it. Because anything that I create is only created by me, the self, produced by ins
tincts and conditioning, emotions and beliefs. It is unreliable to give the actu
al picture of what is, it is filtered, distorted, interpreted, formed, mutated.
This experience gave me the courage to question everything I believed, including
God. Because in that experience I knew, there is only this very physical univer
se, perceived through our physical senses and the consciousness of this physical
experience. Everything else I could see as the outcome of a psychic construct,
imagined and built by all of humanity since time memorial.
Having experienced the world, the actual world without me in the road, I knew wh
at I had to do. I had to remove my self with all its implications, with all its be
liefs, with all of me. Because only I am in the road of the perfection of the physic
al universe, I and my beliefs in God, Love, All There Is, or whatever else idea we
heap unto the vastness and purity of what is. And then there is no grandness, n
o bliss, no life after death and it is utterly unnecessary too. Because without
the filter of instincts and conditioning, without the Human Condition, each mome
nt is experienced as magical, utterly fulfilling, delightful and fulfilling. Wit
hout separation there is no need for God or Love to unite.

I had tried to get rid of the bad emotions. But the trick is to free oneself of al
l that we continuously create in our heads and hearts of the good and bad emotio
ns, of the whole soul. Then, and only then without the self or Self can we experi
this vast physical universe including ourselves in its magnificence and benevole
nce which is its very nature.
Does this explanation make it more understandable what I mean by living without
God. It is not negating, it is stopping to produce Him or It in the first place.
There never existed anything like God except in our fertile and collective imag

ination, created out of the fear of being alone in this world and ancient people
have had good reasons to perceive it as dangerous and threatening, it was dange
rous then with all the wild animals, the scarcity of food and hostile neighbours
.

15.1.1999
VINEETO: When I met Peter, and later Richard, and they talked about a new approa
ch, to question all the beliefs and eliminate not only the ego, but the soul, I
was very hesitant.
RESPONDENT: I believe in eliminating the ego ... but the soul?
VINEETO: I appreciate your questions. It is good fun to dig deeper, each time a
bit more.

Well, that is exactly what makes it the third alternative to being normal and bein
g spiritual you eliminate the soul as well as the ego. Actualism is both radical a
nd effective and lies 180 degrees in the opposite direction to what has been off
ered up till now. You in your entirety become extinct. Every sense of self or being d
es.
RESPONDENT: and what IS the Soul anyway ... that is something that I do not unde
rstand as of yet because I am not there yet.
VINEETO:
soul The principle of life in humans or animals; animate existence. The principle
of thought and action in a person, regarded as an entity distinct from the body
; a persons spiritual as opp. to corporeal nature. The spiritual part of a human
being considered in its moral aspect or in relation to God and his precepts, spe
c. regarded as immortal and as being capable of redemption or damnation in a fut
ure state. The disembodied spirit of a dead person, regarded as invested with so
me degree of personality and form. The seat of the emotions or sentiments; the e
motional part of human nature. Oxford Dictionary
Peter: The soul is the big one! For what is a human being without a soul. Ancien
t Wisdom has it that a body without a soul is but an animal. A body without a so
ul is inhuman and evil.
Seems pretty impressive for something that does not factually exist. The instinc
tual programming of the amygdala or primitive brain includes a primitive animal
sense of self that is most highly developed in the primates. This self in relati
onship to other members of the species is most evident in apes and chimps and le
ads us to see in them human behaviour at a less sophisticated level of operation
. Fear , aggression , nurture and desire are seen operating unimpeded by develop
ed intelligence, which simply translates to apes and chimps being less cunning a
nd less efficient in killing than the human animal. We think them cute when they
display instinctual nurture but are in denial of the mounting evidence of rape,
murder, infanticide and war in chimps and apes that are the result of instinctu
al fear, aggression and desire.

This very-same primitive self, complete with its automatic survival program, ope
rates in humans, but we manage to divide the instinctual passions into two group
ings the good passions and the evil ones. The self that is the good instincts we
term me at my core, the real me, or my very soul. We simply deny the existence of fe
r, aggression, nurture and desire, as it is usually too shocking to contemplate
these aspects within us. Thus we are usually overcome or overwhelmed by anger or vio

lence or despair, for that is what appears to happen when instinctual passions s
urface. The amygdala automatically responds to a threat, real, perceived or imag
ined, and the hormones automatically flow flooding the neo-cortex and away we go
Murder, rape, revenge, despair, torture, war, etc., all occur in a blind rage be i
t hot or cool.
As if this wasnt enough of a heritage, we then have the universal fairy-tale of a
life after death for this very-same soul, and the same instincts are then bough
t into play in defending this belief ; for the soul me at my core believes it is f
ighting for its very life (its life after death). Thus humans not only fight for
real things like territory and food but we add fighting for causes, beliefs, id
eals, rights and dreams to the list.
Fearing for survival is our main pre-occupation, and fighting for survival is ou
r main occupation. Such is the Human Condition.
Good to be rid of a soul and all that it represents as far as Im concerned. Every
body regards it as inconceivable to be without a soul but next time you have a p
eak experience have a good look around and see if you can feel one in operation.
If you can, its not a Pure Consciousness Experience. In the PCE, as if by miracl
e, the soul and the ego , the self in total, disappear from consciousness, and i
f it can happen once, why not more times, and why not 24 hrs. a day every day?
Why not indeed? The Actual Freedom Trust Library
RESPONDENT: Until I experience that place where youve been I cannot tell.
VINEETO: I had described this peak-experience so one can root around in ones memo
ry to find maybe a similar experience, where one was neither in the heart nor fu
ll of worries (in the head), an experience where the self is completely absent. Many
people actually experience this state many times in their lives although most p
eople forget about it for there is no emotional I present to record the moment on
its affective tape-recorder. So you have to look for this memory, it does not just
pop up, you have to root around to recall a situation where you experienced lif
e and the world around you as crisp, clear, perfect and peaceful, without a feel
ing of beauty or love and without any separate sense of self.
The advantage of the actual world is, you can reach it from anywhere, it is alwa
ys here. Everybody can see a coffee cup as a coffee cup, a tree as a tree and he
ar a cricket as a cricket. No spiritual achievement is needed for that on the co
ntrary, it leads you further away from the actual experience of the physical sen
ses. But to keep God in existence you need many beliefs the belief that God is a
ll-present, all-knowing, all-pervading, the belief that God loves you, that God
created the universe, that God will take care of you and take care of your soul
after death. Question those beliefs and you will watch God disappear in front of
your very eyes. God, by whatever name, actually does not exist.
You dont have to go anywhere first, you can experience it any time. You can start t
oday by relentlessly questioning everything that is not evidenced by the physica
l senses, and what is left after all beliefs are dismantled is the actual, the f
actual. It needs courage and a bloody-mindedness and a good deal of common sense
but it is possible, one can start immediately.
RESPONDENT: All I know, within my experience and belief system is what my heart
tells me ... but that is even questionable because I have to use my head to filt
er what my heart tells me. Like I said, until I am in that place where I can act
ually experience the feeling of no-mind I cannot tell...
VINEETO: I pondered for a while how to make you understand the difference betwee
n being in the heart, the feeling of no-mind of the spiritual world and being the un

iverse experiencing itself as a sensate human being.

When I met Peter and heard him talk about Actual Freedom, I thought, well, it is
maybe just a bit further than where I am already with my meditation... A few mont
h later, I understood for the first time what the word spirit-ual means: a world m
ade by the spirit (my spirit), filled with spirits it was non-actual and non-fac
tual. It hit me like a hammer. Could that mean, all my efforts to reach this inn
er space of peace and bliss and silence meant that I was only creating a world o
f my own according to the instructions of the spiritual guidance a little playgr
ound where nobody could hurt me anymore? And everybody else was creating such a
little playground in their heads too?
But, everything created is not actual! It is a product of imagination!
On investigation I found it to be the case. I found I could alter this playgroun
d according to my imagination, make it fit any Scripture I had read or heard, be
it Osho, be it Tibetan, be it Tantra, be it past-life fantasies. The great disa
dvantage of this playground was that I could only vaguely share it with others,
and only with a chosen few of the same faith. Further, everybody seemed to have
a slightly different version of this fantasy-land, everyone had their individual
place of personal peace. Also, by dwelling in this retreat I could not be at ease
in the marketplace, and it did not alter my emotions like dependency, jealousy, a
nger, fear and sorrow. Yes, sometimes I had a distance to them, but I could not
maintain that distance all the time.
That understanding initiated the turn-around. I wanted to be happy in this actua
l world, not just in a fantasy-land, which was non-compatible with other people
(except a few close friends). I was actually afraid of the non-believers and the
so-called outside world. I wanted to be able to experience actual changes in me
, that would be reliably apparent in my interactions with the actual world of pe
ople, things and events as well, all the time, in every situation. I wanted to b
e happy and harmless, 24 hours a day.
The feeling of no-mind is a feeling, as you so aptly say. To be here means to questi
ons and eliminate feelings, to step out of the real world of feelings and into the
actual world leaving your self completely behind.
*
VINEETO: And I was very afraid to lose my self.
RESPONDENT: I think that everybody goes through that ... that is why the EGO is
deathly afraid of meditating. Look at me ... every time I get a chance to medita
te, the ego has a hundred ideas of what else I have/need to do...
VINEETO: Again, I am not just talking about the EGO. Ego is the little man/woman i
n the head on the control-leavers, soul is the little man/woman in the heart pul
ling on the heartstrings. To lose my self and my Self, ego and soul, means complete
extinction, not even a being is there to continue after physical death. When I die
, I die, full stop. I am nothing but this physical body, so there is nothing tha
t will live on after this physical body dies.
*
VINEETO: But then, I had already started to question my conditioning, my primary
beliefs in Sannyas, I had already started to doubt my behaviour as part of this
insidious self or ego. Could it be that my very limited success was due to that I h
ad not done it totally, that I had not questioned the second part of me, the sou
l, the Self? To question not only the bad emotions like anger, sadness, jealousy o
r rage, but also the good emotions like love, friendship, intuition, unselfishne

ss and compassion was a radical step.

RESPONDENT: I can understand that ... but you have had to go through the one (lo
ss of mind) before you get to the other (loss of soul) ... so you can compare th
e two.
VINEETO: On the path to Actual Freedom you eliminate both, ego and soul, at the
same time. In this way one can avoid the delusion of enlightenment avoid running
aground on the Rock of Enlightenment. I did not have to go through the loss of m
ind quite the opposite I actually recovered my intelligence after all those years
of trying to ignore it and used it to questioned beliefs and instincts. By hone
stly and vigilantly asking the question How do I experience this moment of being
alive I was able to slowly, slowly investigate all my emotions, instincts and bel
iefs my very self (ego + soul).
*
VINEETO: But one thing I had already understood in Sannyas, that everything that
I create in my head or heart is part of me and not to be relied upon. So I gath
ered all my courage and stopped believing the stories my head produced without i
nterruption. The effect was enormous. I literally came here for the first time tha
t I can remember.
RESPONDENT: And how did it feel?
VINEETO: It was perfect, magnificent, pristine, pure, obvious, delightful, extra
-ordinarily ordinary.
*
VINEETO: Here meaning, the filter of the self was temporarily not functioning and I
saw the world as it is, without the story we usually create out of what we see,
hear, taste or smell. Everything just existed in its own right. Clear, perfect,
magically alive, thriving, wondrous, pure, obvious and self-evidently here witho
ut needing any God or force or love to be able to exist. Just here. Just this. A
nd I am conscious of it without being separated and without having any kind of c
onnection with it either.
RESPONDENT: Well this here is what I call Existence ... as you know ... God has
no name ... what people call God (religious people or mostly everybody) I call E
xistence ... All That Is ... it is really the ONLY thing that is ... yes?
VINEETO: I am talking about this physical universe, evidenced only by the physic
al senses (eyes, ears, sense of touch, smell and taste). Everything meta-physica
l like God or Existence is a mere psychic construct of human imagination in orde
r to secure a life after death.
*
VINEETO: Because in that experience I knew, there is only this very physical uni
verse, perceived through our physical senses and the consciousness of this physi
cal experience. Everything else I could see as the outcome of a psychic construc
t, imagined and built by all of humanity since time immemorial.
RESPONDENT: That part I am not surprised about. I have been in metaphysics (or w
hatever you want to call it) for over 20 years, that part I knew without experie
ncing it)
VINEETO: I dont know what you mean by I have been in metaphysics. Do you say you ha
ve studied it? or used it? or believed in it?

VINEETO: Then, and only then without the self or Self can we experience this vast p
ysical universe including ourselves in its magnificence and benevolence which is
its very nature.
RESPONDENT: And ... can you keep it going all the time, or is it just glimpses o
f it...?
VINEETO: Yes, I am happy and harmless almost all the time. Once in a while an em
otion, usually a quiver of fear, appears and then gets examined, investigated an
d eliminated. It is always the same successful method of how am I experiencing th
is moment of being alive and when I am not experiencing perfection, I have someth
ing to look at, to investigate into the cause and cut its roots.
RESPONDENT: I can relate to that...on with the adventure of experiencing the sel
f ... or... the SELF...
VINEETO: Yes, on with the adventure, but for me, it is the adventure of question
ing, investigating, eliminating the self and Self and becoming free of the Human
Condition, free of malice and sorrow. And the adventure of ending the search, o
f arriving at ones destiny.

21.1.1999
RESPONDENT: I do not appreciate you cutting down Osho. This site is for sannyasi
ns and friends of Osho. I personally am not interested in converting but you guys
seem to be forcing your issues on those that are here.
VINEETO: When I started to write on this list, and talked about my experiences,
I stated that I had found the Eastern teachings lacking in delivering solutions
for me personally and for the world at large. After thousand of years of teachin
gs about enlightenment and meditation people are still killing each other for th
eir beliefs, their territory and many other petty reasons.
I just saw a report about an emergency hospital in Chicago where kids of 9 18 ye
ars are brought in with 13 or more bullets in their bodies, not only once, but o
ften returned a second or third time ... and the reasons were often a fight over
a Hamburger, a stereo-recorder, a missing apology, a misunderstanding. You may
say, they are not Sannyasins, but is there really such a difference? Havent we al
l experienced rage, blinding jealousy or despair? I know that, until a year ago,
I could not rely on myself that I would not ride on the lust for power or the t
hrill of being malicious to someone. There was always this doubt, would there be
a situation that would trigger me? In the end, I couldnt be sure of myself.
Then people on the list said, this list is not about Eastern teaching, what abou
t Osho. So I became more specific in my replies. Being a friend of Osho does not m
ean for you that you are not allowed to check out facts, or does it? When people
ask specific questions, because they want to investigate, I answer. If you dont
like the answer you can always investigate, find out for yourself and discuss it
further, if you like.
Is this list only for the loyal ones who dont question Oshos authority on anything
he said, and represented, or is this list also for those who would like to find
out about life on earth, who are searching for a solution to their own and huma
nitys problems?

I had loved and followed Osho for seventeen years and I was in this Sannyas-worl
d for half of my life. I have now found something that works 100%, that makes me
completely happy and harmless, and that is possible for every human being on th
e planet. It is simple, obvious and straight-forward, it is actual and factual.
Naturally, the first people I am sharing it with are the people I have spent all
those years with, searching together for an answer, investigating and experimen
ting together, living, longing and laughing together... I dont see how this inapp
ropriate?
RESPONDENT: Speaking for myself, how would you like it if we went to your site a
nd started to push Osho on you...
VINEETO: I would appreciate it very much. You are very welcome to discuss this o
n any list you want to. I dont have a perception of my site or your list, I simply en
joy talking to people where ever and when ever they write to me.

23.1.1999
RESPONDENT to Peter: I presume that this Richard is not the same one that you al
ways mention. or is it?
VINEETO: No, this is not Richard from Actual Freedom. This guy seems to be quite
out there.
[quote]: One of my joys at the moment is realising that I dont have to see who I r
eally am all the time. Partly because its always here anyway, and doesnt go away i
f I forget to be aware of it, and doesnt deteriorate if I dont keep seeing it. And
with this is a recognition that it is actually healthy to forget about it from
time to time. Just as going on holiday gives me the opportunity to feel the joy
of returning home at the end of the trip, so forgetting about who I really am is
necessary in order to feel the joy of remembering. [endquote].
This paragraph shows clearly that he is talking about the spiritual here, forgettin
g and remembering the real self.
In Actual Freedom all identities die, real or unreal. There is nothing left but
the flesh and blood body, sensate and reflective. There is no holiday or returning
home, one is always here in this physical world.
I guess you have the address of Richards web site, if not, it is: http://www.actu
alfreedom.com.au/richard

24.1.1999
RESPONDENT: First of all, Id like to thank you for your straight forward manner.
It is refreshing to see that you are patient with people even though they rebel.
VINEETO: Good to talk to you again.
Rebelling has been a strong issue for me in my life. When I lived at home with m
y parents, I rebelled against my father. Later I extended that rebellion against
my university professors, my employers, the government, the police and men in g
eneral. Beneath all my rebellion I was still relying on authority for comparison
, orientation and approval, while rebelling against it at the same time.
Interestingly, I could only get rid of authority by tracing its cause to the ver

y root: What do I want or need authority for in my life? Why do I create authori
ty? What do I get out of it? What was the ultimate authority behind each represe
ntative of power? Which version of good and bad, right and wrong was I to follow
? Could I consider living without an external or internal authority in my life?
And what would be the consequences?
But I can say, I had to tackle my belief in the ultimate authority before I was
able to stand upright and autonomously on my own feet. Now I am my own authority
, deciding what is silly and sensible, using the common and practical intelligen
ce of the human brain. I am responsible for every action in my life and I can ac
knowledge that now. However, this means that from now on I cannot blame anybody
for making me jealous, miserable, grumpy, afraid, angry or frustrated over any p
etty issue. Now there is no more excuse, no more hiding place. They are my react
ions and my behaviour, which I have to face and change in order to be free.
So, in my experience, it is worth rebelling, but rebelling against someone else
does not lead anywhere. For freedom, I rebelled against everything that I have b
een taught, every thought, every truth, every teaching, every feeling and it is
damn worth it.
RESPONDENT: No one likes their beliefs being questioned, but, in this case Osho
did always tell everybody to question everything and he purposefully changed his
statements in order to make people question even him. So you are right. Being s
omeone who spent years with Osho, it does give you a right to examine anyones bel
iefs including your own.
All I know is that I know nothing. Who said that? As long as I question everythi
ng I will be in the search mode.
VINEETO: All I am proposing is that you question your own beliefs just because i
t worked for me. There are many good reasons for questioning the tried and failed
and I have explained most of them. But it is completely up to you which belief y
ou want to question. The good thing about investigating not only your ego but al
so your feelings, emotions and instincts is that you arrive. The search ends and
the entity inside dies, a complete and irreversible death. One arrives in the m
agical perfection and delightful aliveness of here, in the actual world.

28.1.1999
VINEETO: All I am proposing is that you question your own beliefs just because i
t worked for me. There are many good reasons for questioning the tried and failed
and I have explained most of them. But it is completely up to you which belief y
ou want to question. The good thing about investigating not only your ego but al
so your feelings, emotions and instincts is that you arrive . The search ends an
d the entity inside dies, a complete and irreversible death. One arrives in the
magical perfection and delightful aliveness of here, in the actual world.
RESPONDENT: And what IS the purpose for being in the actual world other than enj
oying it? There must be something else, some other purpose.
VINEETO: No, there is no purpose other than living the perfection of the actual
world and being aware of it. It is the psychological and psychic entity that yea
rns for a purpose to justify its existence. And when you look around you will fi
nd thousands of imagined purposes in peoples lives.
RESPONDENT: My father used to say, there is nothing after this life. Well, I prove
d him wrong because he tried to communicate with me after death. You will probab
ly say that I was projecting, but no, there was another person present at the ti

me when this happened.

I still do not believe that this world, this life is all there is. Then what are
we here for? to enjoy life and then what???
VINEETO: To enjoy life and then die. As all living things do. Be born, live and
die. And what are we here for? To enjoy every moment of being here as the univer
se experiencing itself in its magnificence, exuberance, abundance, perfection an
d purity. And in order to be able to live as this sensate and reflective human b
eing we investigate into the Human Condition which we have been programmed with
and which prevents us from living in peace and harmony in this wonderful actual
world.
Isnt that enough, isnt that more than enough? Why waste the time we have on this v
erdant planet by worrying about people who died, to fear and worship imaginary g
ods and great beings, dreams and fantasies. Why not stop hoping that someone else
can fix us up and why not instead start making yourself happy and harmless now ?
Essentially everybody spends his/her life worrying about what happens afterward
s and in that way wastes this moment of being alive, living what is happening no
w.
RESPONDENT: I still cannot accept the fact that all there is is this world ... t
he physical. That there isnt a force out there that directs all that is existing.
I do not care what you call this force but it is an intelligent force...call it
a computer if you will, but it IS there since I feel it. It may be a part of me
but it is still larger than me.
VINEETO: Well, it is up to you.
I have decided to investigate facts rather than believe what I have been taught,
and it made me happy and harmless. I had to leave a lot of dreams, hopes, fears
and the feeling of belonging behind but the result is beyond my wildest dreams.
It was not easy to face my fears, to give up the imaginary protection of some i
maginary greater force, but after investigating into the facts I could not keep
on believing this dream of a greater protective and demanding force any longer.
I saw that the belief was produced by my fears and the fears of all of humanity,
the fear to be alone, the fear of death. I decided to face and eliminate my fea
rs rather than being dependant on this imaginary protective force.
Peace-on-earth, in this lifetime, on this planet is possible now. But it is up t
o you, it is you who chooses what you want to do in your life.
It has been great fun again to talk to you.
PS: If you are interested, Peter has written about exactly this issue in the Dea
th-chapter and Universe-chapter of his book.

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.

Disclaimer and Use Restrictions and Guarantee of Authenticity========FILENAME===

=====
c-corr10.htm

Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 10

Topics covered
Peter and Vineeto show, Rajneesh teaching the divine, ugly, real / actual, self, P
eters PCE, eliminating the Human Condition, spiritual de-conditioning * tricks of
the mind, Rajneesh and friendship, independence, dis-identification, the East and
its teaching has lead us astray with the theory that you are not your mind, weath
er

6.12.1998
RESPONDENT: Hi dears,
Im pretty much disinterested in the Peter and Vineeto show ... so If I figure out
how, Ill unsubscribe from this list for a while. See ya all later.
VINEETO: And 2 days later:
RESPONDENT: Hello everyone, I just wondering if there is anyone on this list who
is attracted to Peter and Vineeto? What is it you admire about their writing?

13.1.1999
VINEETO: So you have come back to find out more about what Peter and I are talking
about.
I have to admit I thought you were a woman, since I know two women with the same
name as yours. The internet is a funny place to meet and talk, isnt it. But now
to your question:
*
VINEETO to No 12: Despite all the in-built contradictions Osho was clear on one
point:
[quote]: The only difference between me and you is that I have realised that I a
m God (the Divine, One with the Universe), and you have not. Ch. M. Rajneesh
RESPONDENT: I see you are well practiced in painting something with ugly colours

. I suspect No Where will you ever find that Osho clearly made this point. But I
T is clear that this is your perception, and therefore you build your works on s
omething you paint ugly, something that may or may not be reality in any world (
real or actual) except in your perception.
VINEETO: Do you mean to say that Osho never told us to realise that we are God (
the Divine), and never said that he has already realised it? Is this not the ver
y essence of what he was saying?
No 12 has made a particular point that Vineeto missed Osho and I responded to his
statement. I said:
[Vineeto]: As I see it, I finally saw him with both my eyes and heard him with bo
th my ears wide open. Despite all the in-built contradictions Osho was clear on
one point: The only difference between me and you is that I have realised that I
am God (the Divine, One with the Universe), and you have not.
Well, I have described at length in the above mentioned letter as to why I decid
ed that Id rather live in the actual world of people, things and events than get
lost in the imagination of the psychic world with its passionate imaginations of
Compassion and Truth. In that sense I have serendipitously missed Osho and now ha
ve turned 180 degrees in the opposite direction to everything spiritual and nonactual. Life has not only gained immense meaning, but I am finally able to be ha
ppy and harmless, live at ease in the world and at peace, on my own and with oth
er human beings.
Seeing it from a Sannyasins point of view, you call my response painting with ugly
colours. But with your very response you show that you are biased, and that you
have an emotional response to what I said (ugly).

The difference between real and actual is significant. Actual is that which is palpab
e, tangible, tactile, corporeal, material and sensately experienced. In comparis
on, real is that which, while appearing actual, is merely the affective interpreta
tion of the actual.
As an example: usually people say, I feel that what you are saying is..., I feel th
at your are being ..., I feel melancholic because of the weather... an affective r
esponse to and interpretation of the actual.
But how would someone who is fond of his affections because they is the very sub
stance the self is made of be able to experience and understand the non-affective,
non-cerebral, but sensate and sensible description of the actual? I can give yo
u a description of a pure consciousness experience, as I have done before, but a
re you able to read it with clear eyes? Whenever I compare the actual world to t
he spiritual world I do this to point to the rose-coloured glasses that you, the r
eader, are wearing. When I was a sannyasin, I had been wearing rose-coloured gla
sses, it was inevitable. It took great effort, courage and a year of continuous
investigation into all my beliefs to be now able to experience the world-as-it-i
s, without any glasses ie. interpretations whatsoever.
RESPONDENT: Is it possible for you to speak of your NEW WAY with out interpreting,
recolouring, rewriting anything of the past? Having nothing but a blank canvas
to start with, No retold old stories to compare with? If, as you say, you have e
liminated the old ways of being ... then is it possible for you to not carry the
m around for show an tell... Can you relate from a clear space?
VINEETO: I do relate from a clear space, but do you read from a clear space? Are you
not conditioned as a Rajneeshee when you read what I write?
For brevity Ill give you Peters description of a peak-experience, there is a longe

r one from me on our website in A bit of Vineeto

Peter: ... I remember walking in the shallow water marvelling at my magical fairytale-like surroundings. A vast blue sky overhead with an ever-changing array of
wispy white clouds. The sun glistens on the tiny ripples of water washing gently
over my feet. The feel of the mud oozing between my toes as they sink into the
muddy beach. Huge pelicans glide overhead and I liken them to the jumbo jets of
the bird world as they come in to land on the water some distance out. The sun o
n my skin warming me through and through, the breeze ruffling my hair and tingli
ng my forearms, and the water cooling on my feet. It is so good to be alive, sen
ses bristling as if on stalks and everything is perfect. Absolutely no objection
s to being here pure delight!
After a while I turn to my partner who is sitting in the shade beneath a wonderf
ully gnarled and ancient tree on the lakes edge.
There sits a fellow human being to whom I have no relationship. Any past or future
disappears; she and I are simply here together, experiencing these perfect mome
nts. The past five years that I have known her, with all the memories of good an
d bad times, simply do not exist. It is just delightful that she is here with me
, and I do not even have any thoughts of our future. In short, everything is perfe
ct, always has been, and always will be.
It is a temporary experience of actual freedom where I, as this flesh and blood
body only, am able to experience with my physical senses the perfection and puri
ty of the universe, totally free of any psychological or psychic entity within.
I am also free of the delusion that this is all the work of some mythical maker
to whom I owe gratitude for my being here, and there are no heartfelt delusions of
grandeur or Oneness. So totally involving is this sensate experience that the f
eelings and emotions of a self or Self have no place in the magical paradise of this
actual world that is abundantly apparent. I am actually here, in the physical u
niverse and enjoying a direct and unfettered involvement, every moment. Peters Jo
urnal, Introduction
When I describe the actual sensual experience of the world around me and when I
talk about eliminating beliefs and emotions in order to be capable of such pure
experiencing of the actual, I am talking about the third alternative tackling th
e root cause of the problem, not just transcending it. This means, eliminating t
he Human Condition in you, not only dis-identifying from the duality of the good
and bad of the normal world. It also means eliminating the spiritual duality of be
ing the watcher to a supposedly illusory world. The Third Alternative removes every
thing that is preventing one from experiencing the purity and perfection of the
actual world, which is already happening. Only because we are wearing grey-colou
red or rose-coloured glasses because of our conditioning, feelings, beliefs and
instincts we are unable to see it.
RESPONDENT: I find the colours you repaint the past with to be only yours. For m
e they are not valid as I perceive the past with my own minds filter. As long as
I find that you holding up a false past to compare your new third way to, I find
your whole story to be contaminated with a false past.
If you were able to write from a clear space without telling me everything I hav
e experienced in the past is a shit brown colour... then perhaps... But as it is
, your notion that you have eliminated all dualities is just another falsehood .
.. because you keep making the same old comparisons in every paragraph you write
. Your third way seems nothing more than another illusion created by a tense min
d.

VINEETO: When I took Sannyas I had been raised and conditioned as a catholic mid
dle-class German. In order to understand Osho I had to at least question those r
eligious and social conditionings. But I was ready to do so, because life wasnt a
ll that wonderful, burdened as I was with those conditionings. I attempted to le
ave the normal world of good and bad behind and entered the spiritual world of goo
a and bad karma.
At that time, I could have blamed Osho for telling me everything I have experienc
ed in the past is a shit brown colour. But my search was for freedom and I was wi
lling to investigate what other people had told me to be the truth.
With Actual Freedom a second de-conditioning took place, a spiritual de-conditio
ning. And again, I was ready for it, because after all those years of sincere ef
fort my search did not show the results I had been aiming for. This second de-co
nditioning was much more radical and went far deeper than the first, it is going
to eliminate all of me , ego and soul, emotions and beliefs, instincts and spiri
tual achievements. It leaves me as this physical body with its senses, free to de
light in this pure, perfect and infinite universe as a sensate and reflective fl
esh-and-blood human being. Nothing more, nothing less.
Actual Freedom provides a simple and effective method to achieving and is availa
ble for everybody who wishes to go for the best presupposing that you are discon
tent with your life as it is now.
RESPONDENT: Bla, bla,
VINEETO: I enjoy our discussion. I am curious what you make of it.

14.1.1999
RESPONDENT: Sorry I havent read the whole post... way too much at one time.
VINEETO: Ill do it in three bits this time, so it wont excess your attention-span.
RESPONDENT: No. Id say ... He said ... something like ...Since there is no God, th
e old saying that cleanliness is next to godliness is wrong ... so the only thin
g left is cleanliness... Ive spent a lot more time cleaning than thinking of Osho
or myself to be Gods. How bout you?
VINEETO: I have a cleaner coming in every other week.
RESPONDENT: I did not say he never said it .. .as I dont know if he did or did no
t. If he did ... It is not a point he made clearly. Which is what I said... I su
spect No Where will you ever find that Osho clearly made this point. Also I susp
ect he more often said we were the same rather than we were different. I clearly
recall him saying we were Friends...on a walk/ journey...
VINEETO: So your life is based on what you are suspecting that Osho has said?

15.1.1999
VINEETO: No. 2 of our short conversation:
RESPONDENT: I asked if you can relate the New Way of being from a clear space an
d you give me...

VINEETO: I can, but can you read from a clear space?

RESPONDENT: And a borrowed rap from someone else ? (I wasnt interested in using t
he time reading it, sorry...)
VINEETO: Maybe you are interested to talk about the weather, then? It is a magni
ficent sunny day today here. We have a blue summer-sky, with a few weather cloud
s building up and a wonderful breeze taking the top off the heat from the bright
day, moist, warm air...
RESPONDENT: My only reason for asking if you could relate from a clear space was
because of the statement of you having eliminated all past conditioning, and ye
t only editing and rewriting history is what is exhibited in your writings.
VINEETO: Well, I am relating from a clear space. But you can only recognize this
if you can read from a clear space. Otherwise you will object, call it shit brow
n colour or mould it into what you already know ...

15.1.1999
VINEETO: No 3 of our short conversation:
RESPONDENT: Never did I claim to read from a clear space. I take responsibility
for having a mind and its filters...
VINEETO: How do you take responsibility for having a mind and its filters? Does tak
ing responsibility include considering the possibility of eliminating those filter
s such that you could one day read and experience from a clear space?
RESPONDENT: I am only what I pretend to be ... and the mind loves to play its tr
icks. Wouldnt you say??
VINEETO: I am only this flesh-and-blood body. I have eliminated most of my condi
tioning, emotions, beliefs and instincts. What remains of my mind is my brains inna
te intelligence, also known as common sense. Of course, the self, consisting of be
liefs, feelings, emotions and instinctual passions loves to play its tricks and wi
ll do anything to stay in existence. But those tricks can be examined and uncove
red and eliminated and make room for the naivet that is born out of the pure expe
rience of the actual world.

17.1.1999
VINEETO: So your life is based on what you suspect Osho has said?
RESPONDENT: Youre coming off like you are lookin to set traps, not at all malice f
ree... didnt hear what you wanted to hear... so make it into baiting and battling
.
VINEETO: No, these are your words, I am not looking to set any traps. I am looki
ng for some common ground for a clear discussion, thats all. I was asking a quest
ion on how you extract the guidelines for your life.
RESPONDENT: I suspect he more often said we were the same rather than we were di
fferent. I clearly recall him saying we were Friends ... on a walk/ journey...
VINEETO: If you suspected that he and you were the same, why were you sitting at h

is feet?
Did you act upon Oshos saying that you and he were Friends did you treat him as a f
riend and had a friendly chat with him? Or did you treat him as a Master and rec
eive his teachings? I clearly recall him saying that he regarded us as friends, bu
t we were to regard him as a master.
RESPONDENT: Unlike you and Peter I am often able to distinguish and accept the d
ifference between theory hunches wishes ... and provable facts.
VINEETO: Can you tell me some of those provable facts that you base your life on?
I prefer to talk about facts for the simple reason that one can sort them out, w
hile theory-hunches-wishes and beliefs evaporate in the bright light of investigat
ion. With facts there is confidence and certainty, while with beliefs there is a
lways this little doubt, always this little doubt...
RESPONDENT: If that were so... Then I would be a totally free and independent pe
rson. All thought would originate from within me... How cool!

VINEETO: It is possible to be totally free, but then one will have to eliminate
ones emotions, beliefs and instinctual passions first, one will have to become ex
tinct as the one who one thinks and feels one is. To do this you cannot trust or rel
y on someone elses wisdom, be they be called Love or Truth that is dependency, not f
eedom.
RESPONDENT: But then again ... I am a free and independent person ... so it must
be true ... I guess it is MY MIND that does interpret and translate all that It
sees and hears ... and then only as clearly as it can... but really, my life is
much more than what I think Osho said or didnt say ... so picking apart what he
said to make some point in my conversation seems silly and a pointless waste of
energy. Kinda the same feeling I get from the conversations with you and Peter. M
y experience of these conversations is mostly that of embarrassment.
VINEETO: The East and its teaching has lead us astray with the theory that you ar
e not your mind. They clearly state that if you only dis-identify from your mind th
en you become your true nature the Self, which is one with everything, God, Buddha N
ature, etc. But this Self, this so-called Buddha Nature is still an identity and an
enormous one as such. Only when you eliminate both, self and Self, can you be free t
o experience this actual magical world with the physical senses, unfiltered by e
motions, beliefs, instincts or glorious delusion.
As for picking apart, it was you who joined in on my conversation with No. 12 who
wanted to have specific information on Oshos spiritual conditioning and beliefs.
Who is picking?
RESPONDENT: I think Ill go do something else. Bye.
VINEETO: How is the weather on your side of the planet today? How does the sky l
ook from the window you are looking out of? A cold winter-day, or a misty soft a
nd cloudy sky? Here we have...

RESPONDENT: Vineeto,
Like I said... The quality of what I experience in conversation with you is that
of embarrassment. I do not experience coherence, comprehension, or respect. I w
ill participate no further... enjoy your weather.

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Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence to Mailing List C

Topics covered
love, malice, ego bashing * Peter and Vineeto show, collective psychic world, Huma
n Condition, fear, PCE in Anti-Fischer-Hoffmann group, postponement, here, now,
afterlife, eternal soul, death, imagination, belief, fear * expert in becoming f
ree of the Human Condition, ASC, universal bliss * sannyas -name * terrible twin
s

16.11.1998
RESPONDENT No 20: Thank you for such a wonderful refreshing wind of energy. Wow.
..
Your words to me, were from the heart, something that seems to be missing a lot
around here, with all this ego bashing...
Thank you so much...
VINEETO: As far as I am concerned, my words are not from the heart, they are sim
ply without malice. Without malice and aggression one needs no love to cover it
up. Love has been an attempt to soothe and restrict the instinctual passions of
malice and fear in human beings and it has failed to stop the fighting both in r
elationships and on a global scale.
To rid oneself of malice is nothing special, it is something that everybody can do
with sufficient intent and courage. The intent stems from the peak-experience,
when one experiences the world without the identity of ego and soul, as a perfec
t and magical place. And further, sincere intent is fuelled by being discontente
d and despairing about the self, the alien being that one is, and despairing about
the way human beings behave with each other.

Once I had recognized that aggression is an innate instinct within me and within
everybody, once I had recognised that it is not just caused by other people who
are then blamed or bought on by particular circumstances, I decided to eliminat
e this self in me and this became the main focus of my investigation.
As for the ego bashing I dont see any point in it. I think it is simply a spiritual
isguise to be malicious to other people. Why else would one try and change other
people instead of oneself? Seems such a waste of time...

6.12.1998
RESPONDENT No 10: Hi dears,
Im pretty much disinterested in the Peter and Vineeto show...so If I figure out h
ow, Ill unsubscribe from this list for a while. See ya all later.
[And 2 days later]:
Hello everyone, I just wondering if there is anyone on this list who is attracte
d to Peter and Vineeto? What is it you admire about their writing?

RESPONDENT No 3: In no way Im attracted to Peter and Vineeto. Actually what they

are doing is quite violent. That, again, just proves how bogus the philosophy be
hind their words is.
What I admire about their writing is this ever present mirror-like quality of ea
ch and every act, of each and every being, showing me again and again, that one
can not hide the state of being behind some smart words.
Stupidity always shows itself in mysterious ways. And Im grateful for the reminde
r, nevertheless, enough is enough.
Thank you for the opportunity to ask all the people from the list, who actually
enjoys this one-way chat, to continue on their private e-mail address. Lets creat
e some breathing space here. However, if you guys all enjoy it, please let me kn
ow...

10.12.1998
VINEETO: Hi everybody,
I took a few days off writing to find out my own position in this show, what it do
es to me and where I stand.
I found that I had tried to understand psychologically and psychically from wher
e everyone was coming from, what the underlying motivation or story was for what
ever comment, question, objection because I considered it essential for communic
ation. The results were tight shoulders and tense thoughts, no way to respond or
see clearly. I had gone into the collective psychic world of fear, the instinct
ual fear which is the core of the Human Condition, that surfaces when a familiar
and safe setting of ones conviction is shaken up. Trying to understand whats goin
g on from feeling it out, the feelings of so-called empathy and intuition had only
stopped me from being here, from noticing the delight of the fan blowing at my

back, the cars driving by, the taste of coffee in my mouth, the sound of the oce
an and the play of my fingers on the keyboard...
Well, I also found out that it does not need a psychic intuition or empathy to c
ome to that conclusion. I could have reached there by straight forward common se
nse. Once I saw with apperception the minds perception of itself what I was doing
, joining this real world of feelings and concepts, this real world disappeared with
a pop. Now, being back here , I can communicate again about this so wondrous, fai
ry-tale-like, sensuous, obvious and corporeal actual world...
Reading the different statements I was reminded of a particular outstanding expe
rience during the Anti-Fisher-Hoffman-Process in Pune. It was the second time th
at I did the group, the first time that I was a staff-member. The AFH, as we cal
led it, is a 10-12 day process of looking at childhood issues and overcoming fea
r, resentment, anger, attachment by using intense bio-dynamic methods. By the th
ird day, with lots of work and little sleep, everybody hit their limit. I dragged
myself forward, fantasizing about the time when I could sleep again as long as I
wanted, if I only made it through the next hellish days. Suddenly it dawned on me
that what I was doing was waiting. I was wasting my time for redemption. And I re
alised that there was no difference from waiting for heaven or for enlightenment,
or for the right man, or...
With this insight that there is only now, that I live only now, and that there i
s no heaven to go to I woke up into full awareness and aliveness. Postponement o
nly brings more misery, hope is for the hesitant one who does not want to take t
he first step to freedom. This peak-experience lasted for several hours, and whi
le everyone else was tired to the bone I bounced in refreshed aliveness. Later o
n the event got filed into the category of group-highs and the memory of it soon f
aded away. But for those few hours I had lived in the actual world, here, now, w
ithout God, heaven, authority, love, hope and postponement. I had actually exper
ienced that this moment is the only moment we have got, the only moment we can e
xperience being alive, to be either miserable or happy, complaining or fully ali
ve.
And this is where I see one of the main differences between the freedom, Peter a
nd I talk about, and the teachings of the enlightened masters of all ages: the c
oncept of life after death. Eternity was a good attraction at the time, improving
on the notion of the Christian heaven and hell. The idea was that the soul was e
ternal, and would live on forever and ever, evolving and in bliss, or, re-appear
ing in endless re-incarnations, sorting out ones so-called karma. Enlightenment o
ffered the dream of me living on for ever even after physical death I would continue
... and this very dream lead to the most insidious postponement everything will
be fixed with enlightenment or otherwise in Nirvana after death... This belief
in eternity comes in many forms and disguises, but if you take a closer look, yo
u will always find that the Divine, the Melting with the Universe, the Dissoluti
on into the Greater Whole life after death are an essential part of Eastern teac
hing.
The dream of the eternal, undying soul spoils the game of living now as the only
moment of being alive. Thats where Richard shocked my out of my socks: He propos
ed that there is no life after death. You die when you die, full stop, basta, fi
nito, extinct.
Well, yes, maybe, I thought, nobody knows, and it could be that he might be right.
But I will only know when I die .. (one can see the postponement at work!). I did
not want to let the fact come close enough to admit that I have only a very lim
ited life-span left I dont know how long it will be.
When I asked Richard why he is so confidently positive about no life after death
, he replied: Because there is nobody and nothing in me that could live on, I am

only this flesh and blood body, there is no soul, no entity inside this body whi
ch could live on. That statement really hit. Here was a man, without imagination,
without emotions, living happily in everyday life, as ordinary as anybody, and
he says there exists no entity in him which survives! For me, that meant, that e
verybody else, including me, imagines their soul, imagines an inner world, imagi
nes life-after-death, imagines the Divine and keeps feelings alive by feeding th
em with imagination.

But if one single man can live happily and harmlessly outside of imagination, if
he can live without love and emotion, then our emotions and soul are not facts
but products of our fertile collective imagination and instinctual programming.
Then, the concepts of divine energy, eternal soul, Existence looking after us, etc, a
e suddenly understood as concepts, built and refined over the centuries to keep
the fear of death at bay, to reconcile us with the awareness of the terrifying f
act of approaching death.
If a single man has rid himself of all beliefs, and of the very act of believing
, those beliefs are exposed for what they are non-factual.
Recognizing this fact was a shock and it was not easy to look the fear of death
in the face, but it brought me here. Not knowing if I am alive tomorrow, I can o
nly live this moment there is, as a fact, no afterlife. If I dont like life now,
I am the only one who can change it. To say, as I often heard quoted, that everyt
hing is perfect as it is or, one gets on with life and life will take care are just
more disguises for the same postponement.

17.1.1999
RESPONDENT No 28: Would you mind telling me where your name originated?
VINEETO: I took Sannyas in January 1980 and received my Christian name with a pr
efix. When I came to the Ranch, it was fashion that most people had an Indian na
me, so I applied for a new name. And thats what I got.

24.1.1999
VINEETO to No 28: I have liked your questions to Peter. They were clear investig
ations into several points of what Peter has written. Therefore I am surprised t
hat you dont investigate further, but suddenly state to No. 14:
RESPONDENT No 28: I do detect a little more than happiness and harmlessness in t
he postings I have read though, and find the cheers at the closing to be sometim
es a mite out of place.
VINEETO: What is it specifically that is little more than happiness and harmlessn
ess ? I am intrigued to hear.
*
PS. I like your phrase of the terrible twins I think I will have business cards pr
inted with that title. Its cute.

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
Vineetos & Richards Text The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997- . All Rights Reserved.
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Please note that Vineetos correspondence below was written by the feeling-being Vi
neeto while she lived in a pragmatic (methodological), still-in-control/same-way-of
-being Virtual Freedom.
Vineetos Correspondence on Mailing List C
Correspondent No. 21

Topics covered
Love and expectations, contracts, unconditional love, actual intimacy * truth /
facts, belief

11.12.1998
VINEETO: Hi,
Why is it that the idea and the feeling of love are so important, and yet everyb
ody has been hurt through love?
RESPONDENT: One is only hurt through love if one has expectations about anothers
behaviour, if some sort of bargain has been struck about how love looks, or feel
s or is supposed to appear.
VINEETO: Yes, thats right. The trouble is to find the different paragraphs of the
contracts and dismantle them, so the relating can stay free of dreams and hidden
expectations. I had to question and eliminate the feeling of love for the other
all together in order to experience the exquisite intimacy of meeting a fellow h
uman being afresh each moment again.
RESPONDENT: Ive been enriched by unconditional love, and hurt by love when I had
false ideas and beliefs about it.
VINEETO: I found that every idea about love was a false idea and every belief by
its nature is a false belief. Belief, after all, means to fervently wish to be tru
e as per dictionary.
As for unconditional love, it is nothing but a grand feeling. I have known momen
ts and days of unconditional love-for-all, wanting to give Wisdom and compassion

to everyone. But, compared with my peak-experiences, where the I was absent altog
ether and with it any sense of self, any feeling, emotion or belief, I found that L
ove has three main disadvantages:
Richard describes the difference in his journal and thats how I experience it, to
o:
Richard: Actual intimacy being here does not come from love, for love stems from
separation. The illusion of intimacy that love produces is but a pale imitation
of this direct experience of the actual. In this, the actual world, I, the persona
lity, the subjectively experienced identity and self , have ceased to exist; whe
reas love accentuates, endorses and verifies me as being real. A chief characterist
ic of the peak experience is the seeing through of the belief in my existence. And
while I am real, I am relative to other, similarly afflicted, persons; vying for po
sition and status in order to establish my credentials to verify my very existence.
In the actual world, I am already factual I do not have to prove myself. Hence a
n indifference to hierarchy, with its corruptible Authority and Power. Richards J
ournal, Article 9
So much better, not to have malice and fear, that makes love, any kind of love,
simply redundant. One can be benign, friendly and benevolent, literally meaning
well-wishing, and is free to act in a way that is of benefit to one and all. Ben
evolence acts freely, one is not driven by Universal Sorrow as are the Compassio
nate Ones.

8.1.1999
RESPONDENT: Once you drop ALL ideas and beliefs about if someone does or does no
t live on, if there is a soul or not and just be, then I suggest you can truly b
e in the here and now. Richard sounds like someone who has his own belief system
and is convincing others that his ideas are the TRUTH. What is the difference b
etween that activity and others you so easily condemn?
VINEETO: I dont talk about the truth, I talk about facts, verifiable by the physi
cal senses. No belief, no truth is needed for finding out about facts. Just comm
on sense.
But as long as you move in the realm of believing rather than investigating the
facts for yourself, everything will be a belief to you. Believing, you can only
choose between a favourable belief and a not so favourable belief. If you wish,
you can make it a belief, what Richard or I say. Then it wont make any difference
if you accept it or reject it.
But you can also check out his suggested method and apply the question of How am
I experiencing this moment of being alive? and eliminate everything in you that i
s not verifiable by the physical senses. You can use the method for yourself to
become happy and harmless, free from the Human Condition. Then it is not a belie
f, then it becomes actuality for you.
*
VINEETO: But if one single man can live outside of imagination, can live without
love and emotion, then emotions and an eternal soul are not facts but merely th
e collective products of our fertile imagination and instinctual programming.
RESPONDENT: Really now, so what. That proves absolutely nothing, just that Richa
rd has developed himself into another type of human being, and obviously one you
admire. Again, so what is the big deal here. Enjoy it, revel in it, be it but d

ont come up with just another belief system you are trying to convince others is
TRUTH.
VINEETO: Truth has to
t is possible to live
verified that one can
eded. No truth found.

be believed, facts can be verified. I have verified that i

with a man in utter peace, harmony and equity, and I have
clean oneself up to be happy and harmless. No believing ne
Everyone can do the same if they wish to.

RESPONDENT: Im just bored with the underlying assumption that your belief system
is somehow superior to others. All belief systems are bogus, yours included.
VINEETO: You are bored with your own assumption.
As long as you want to believe, everything that anybody presents is seen as a be
lief system. You could also start investigating. You could, for instance, try an
d remember a pure consciousness experience and almost everybody has had at least
one in their lives. Then you can experience for yourself the facts of what Pete
r and I are talking about. In a pure consciousness experience, where the self is i
n temporary abeyance, everything is self-evident and obvious, including the fact
, that it is only the self that is in the road of experiencing the perfection of t
he infinite universe.
The objection that most people have is that in the actual world, verifiable by t
he physical senses, there is neither love nor a soul nor divine energy.
There is only this flawless, pure, sparkling, magical and infinite universe, exper
ienced by the touch, smell, taste, seeing and hearing. There is only this moment
in time being alive.

Mailing List C Index

Vineetos Writings and Correspondence
Actualism Homepage
Freedom from the Human Condition Happy and Harmless
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