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December9,2014

Thefollowingarticleislocatedat:http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/novemberwebonly/formingsocietyworthyofhumans.html
ChristianityToday,November,2014
INTERVIEW

FormingaSocietyWorthyofHumans
RobertSiricosaysthatinordertogeteconomicsright,wemustfirstunderstandwhatitmeanstobehuman.
InterviewbyJosephE.Gorra/postedNovember21,2014

RobertSirico,aCatholicpriestandco
founderoftheActonInstitute,is
perhapsoneofthemosteconomically
literateclergymenyouwillfindamong
Americaspublicintellectuals.While
mostseminariesdonottrainfuture
pastorsandlayleaderstothink
theologicallyabouteconomics,Sirico
saysunderstandingquestionsabout
economicsisnecessaryifChristian
leaderswanttorightlyseekthegoodofsocietyandtrainotherstodothesame.JosephGorra,founder
anddirectorofVeritasLifeCenter,talkedSiricoabouteconomiclifeandhumanflourishing.
Atthisyear'sActonUniversityconference,youspokeonhowloveisanindispensablebasis
foreconomiclife.Tosome,thatmightseemoddifeconomiclifeisviewedasthe
maximizationofutilityandmaterialwellbeing.
Wecantenterthemarketplaceassomethingotherthanwhatwereallyare,andrealhumanlove
demonstratestheimpossibilityofbeingmerelyhomoeconomicus(theeconomicman),whichis
essentiallyathesisthatreduceshumanbeingstotheirmateriality.
Humansaresimultaneouslymaterialandtranscendent,individualandsocial.Wearenotmerely
individualentities,thoughweareuniquelyandunrepeatablythat,evenfromthefirstmomentofour
conception.Yetthewholeofourliveswearesocialandindividual,materialandspiritual.Ifweignore
thisexistentialreality,thenwefailtounderstandwhatitmeanstobehuman.
Loveauthentichumanlovehelpsusunderstandthisanthropologicalreality.Evenconjugalloveoffers
morethanphysicality.Inthisactoflove,weofferourwholeselves,includingourideals,dreams,and
indeedourfuturetooneanothernoneofwhichexistsinmaterialreality.Love,especiallyinthebiblical
sense,isnotmerelywhatonewantsforoneself,butisafreedecisionthatwillsthegoodofthepersonone
loves.Andthistranscendentact,thisnonmaterialdimensionofhumananthropologywhenopento
newlifenormativelyresultsinotherhumanpersonswhoaremadefromthedustoftheearthandthe

breathoflife.
Whatisthemostpervasiveproblemshapingourthinkingrelatedtoeconomicsand
society?
Inadditiontotheanthropologicalproblem,peopledontthinkabouteconomicsmuchatall.Thismaybe
becauseweliveinthemostadvancedeconomicsocietyinhistoryincludingpeopleinthedeveloping
world,becauseeventhoughtheirlivesaremuchmoreeconomicallydifficultthanthoseinthedeveloped
world,theystilllivebetterthantheirancestorsdid.Manypeoplethinkwecanjustliveoffthelegacyofa
pastprosperitythatwecanliveattheexpenseofeveryoneelse.Butthisillusioncanlastonlysolong,
andifwedontattendtothedismalscienceofeconomics,weallwillbeintrouble.
YourbookDefendingtheFreeMarketislessofanunbridledendorsementforcapitalism
asmuchasitisthemoralcaseforafreeeconomy.Whatcanwegainbydistinguishingfree
marketfromcapitalismandthencronycapitalism?
IlearnedfrommyexperiencesinLatinAmericaandEuropethatthewordcapitalismisfraughtwith
misconceptions.Itis,inthefirstplace,aMarxistwordandisthusverynarrowinitsemphasisonthe
material.Itrefersonlytostuffintheeconomy.Afreemarketorbetter,afreeeconomyreferstohuman
action,wherepeoplemakechoicesbasedonsubjectiveneeds,bothasproducersandconsumers.
CronycapitalismorStatecapitalismistheantithesisofafreeeconomy,whichdependsonfavorsfrom
politicianstoincludeorexcludepeoplefromthecircleofexchange.EvenAdamSmithacknowledgesthis
inhisWealthofNations,wherehewarnsagainstthistendency.
PoliticalanalystYuvalLevinsaid,Acapitalistsystemrequiresthekindofcitizenthatit
doesnotproduce.Howwouldyourespond?
Iwouldagree,butonlyifbycapitalistsystemMr.Levinmeansonethatiswithoutamoral
understandingofenterprise,theruleoflaw,clearrightstopropertyandcontract,andallthoseelements
thatwentintothedevelopmentoftheWest.Theproblemistodaywearelosingthemoralsensibilityand
thetranscendentreferencepoint,thatwhichyieldsnotmerelymaterialprosperitybutmoralpurposeand
significance.
Iamnotpromotingmerelyafreesociety,butonethatisbothfreeandvirtuous.Onlythisisworthyof
humanbeings.
ThereisalongstandingMainStreetvs.WallStreetattitudethattendstooccupythe
Americanpopularimaginationofpundits,politicians,populists,andsomepastors.Given
yourtheologyofwork,vocation,andeconomics,whatisyourtakeonthatattitude?
Theformationofamoralconsciencewithinanentireindustrynecessitatesexaminingtwoaspects.The
firstrecognizesthehardworkandcreativeendeavorsofthemanymenandwomenwhoworkinthese
businesses.Theirworkhasimprovedtheentrepreneurscapacitytoraisecapitalandallowscommon
peopletoparticipateinsomeofhistory'smostsuccessfulenterprisesbywayofastockmarket.Wemust

alsoseetheirworkwithfullknowledgeoftheparticulars.Onecouldcomparethistoaquantitative
strategistcreatinganewfinancialproducttoanautomotiveengineerdevisinganewvehiclesafety
system.Bothexhibitacreativehumancontributiontotheserviceofothersthroughtrade.
Thesecondaspectistoexaminetheethicsofbusinessmodelsthatmakeupthisindustry.Asidefrom
debatinginterestratesandprofits,fewtheologianstodaywouldseeamoralimpedimenttoprofitably
lendingmoneytoyourneighbor.Therealmoralquestionsarisewhenoursystemoffractionalreserve
bankingallowsthefinancingindustrytooperatemoneywithsucheconomicexception.Inmanycontexts,
wehavelessofaWallStreetinvestorproblemandmoreofaregulatorycaptureproblem.Itsappropriate
thatpeopleregardsomeWallStreetactivitiesasimmoralbusiness,andIthethinkmostbeneficialthing
todogoingforwardishelppeopleunderstandthenatureofsoundmoneyanditsimportantroleinour
economy.
Inrecentyears,highfrequencytradinghasoftendominatedcriticismsofWallStreet.
Whatarethechallengeswefaceinunderstandingthisconvergenceofinformation
technologyadvances,markets,andsometimespredatoryactivities?
Thecomplexityofthetradingactivitycreatessituationsthataresometimesdifficulttodistinguishas
predatoryorsimplyhighlycompetitive.
Muchhighfrequencytradingisanoutgrowthofamoreantiquatedmarketstructurebywhichbrokers
andmarketmakersoperatedastandardsharedistributionmodelintendingtoassistfirmsinraising
capital,aswellastoprovideinvestorsliquidityandreducecounterpartyrisk.Highfrequencytrading
couldbecomepredatoryifrelationshipsfromtheoldmarketmodelpreventnewparticipantsfrom
competinginatransparentandfreelyaccessedmarketplace,whichcanoccurinavarietyof
circumstances.Nottheleastofwhichiswhenadistortionoffreemarketsoccuraspoliticalfavoritism
playsasignificantrolethroughbailouts,forinstance.Unliketheimplicationoneoftenfindsinmany
newsheadlines,itsnotthespeedoftradingasmuchasthequality,transparency,andfreedomofthe
marketplacethatwillallowustodeterminethemoralfruitsofthisendeavor.
Whatblindspotsdothoseoneitherthepoliticalrightorlefthaveinunderstanding
inequalityandpovertyasaproblemtobesolved?
Bothsidestendtoleaveoutanaspectofreality.Thoseontherightbelievetheillusionthatallthat
mattersiseconomicefficiency,asthoughhumanbeingsdonotmatter.Thisfailsbecausehumansarealso
consumerswhoneedtobeabletopurchasethegoodsandservicesbeingofferedwhichHenryFord
seemedtounderstand.Andmoreimportantly,workersarehumanbeingstheyhavecertainrightssimply
becausetheyarehumans,evenifthoserightsarentthesoleresponsibilityofemployers.
Thoseonthelefthaveautopiandreaminwhicheveryonecanbethesame.Buttheveryfactofhuman
individualityshowsitsimpossibility.
Underlyingthecallforequalityinthematerialsenseisthemoraldesirethatpeoplebeabletoliveata
certainbasiclevelofmaterialdignity.Itsprobablybettertocallthisequity.Hence,wemustspeakabout

thefloorinaneconomicsense,notthegapmuchlesstheceiling.
Regardingpoverty,theimagethatcomestomindisapie.Ifwethinktheworldofrichesisstatic,thenwe
willseethenormativesolutionasdividingituporredistribution.If,ontheotherhand,weseethepieas
capableofbeinggrownthatis,productionthenthenormativesolutioniseconomiclibertyand
initiative,whichproduceprosperity.ActonscurriculumPovertyCure,designedespeciallyforchurches,
makesthecasethatattheinternationallevel,tradeshouldbepreferred,bothmorallyandeconomically,
overaid.
Whatisamoralcaseagainstraisingafederalminimumwageasawaytoalleviatepoverty?
Thisisawelldebatedtopicintheeconomicliterature,andIhavenodoubtthatmostpeopleonallsides
havethebestofintentions.Butthereareseveralprudentialreasonsforshunningfederallymandated
minimumwages.
First,salariesarenotarbitrary.Theyreflectwhatthebusinessownerknowstocoverthecostsof
production,whichareusuallyundertightmargins.Ifemployersareforcedbylawtoinflatewagestorates
abovethemarketrate,theneitherthecostsarepassedontotheconsumerswhoalsoworkforaliving,or
theleastproductiveemployeesmostoftenminoritiesandteenagersorthosewhowerehiredlastare
thefirstonestobefired,lestthewholeenterprisecollapses.Asaresult,entranceintotheworldofwork
willbemoredifficultforthosestartingout,andtheyllneveracquirehabitsofenterprise.
Additionally,ifaminimumwageisamoralrequirementofsocietyasawhole,whyshoulditbethatthe
burdenfallsonlyonemployersasopposedtosomethingmoreakintoanearnedincometaxcredit
wherebypeoplereceivefromsocietyatwhateverlevelofgovernmentdeemedprudentakindof
negativeincomerefund.Ithinkthislatterpolicyhasitsownproblems,butitappearsmorejustthan
singlingoutemployers.Finally,whywouldsuchathingneedtobefederallyimposedwhenwage
differentialsvary?
Sodoespayingalivingwagemeetthesameobjectionsasraisingtheminimumwageifa
livingwageisnotregulatedbutatthediscretionofacompanytodeterminewhatisajust
wage?
Idothinkthatalivingwageanideadevelopedinthemid16thcentury,whichtheScholasticsbelieved
wasbestachievedbythemarketwageiswhatpeoplearelookingfor.Ithinkitsmoreprudentbecausea
marketwagewillmorecloselyrespondtoalivingwage,generallybecausetheresmoreinformation
availabletoallpartnersemployers,worker,andconsumersifthepricingstructureisfreefrom
obfuscatinggovernmentalregulations.
Christianswhoarewellformedintheirmoralobligationsmaywellchoosetopayabovethefederal
minimum.Whenhiringinmyparish,evenforsimpleandtemporarywork,wehaventpaidaminimum
wageinyears.Probablythemostdramaticexample,thoughnotverymuchreportedon,isHobbyLobby,
whichhaspaiditslowestwageearningemployeesmultiplesoftheminimumwageforquitesometime.

Whatcanlocalchurchesandpastorsdotohelpaddressshorttermandlongterm
unemploymentissues?Oristhissomethingonlypolicymakersandthebusiness
communitycanaddress?
Historically,churcheshaveplayedacriticalroleinaddressingthesesortofquestions,andIbelievethey
stillcan,thoughnotmerelythroughdirectcharitableinitiativeswhichshouldbeagiveninany
Christiansociety,inadditiontothemoralformationwerecalledtoofferpeople.Todothis,wemust
thinklikebusinessleaders,butwhosebottomlineneednotbemonetary.
Specifickindsofworktrainingeffortsimbuedwithmoralsensibilitywouldbeonewaytodothis,which
businessesoperatingunderallkindsofregulationsmightfinddifficult.Imaginewhatitwouldlooklikeif
aftertwoorthreeyearsofoperationachurchgotthereputationofturningoutworkersfromthechurchs
vocationtrainingschool,peoplewhowerenotonlyhighlyproficientintheirrespectivefield,butalso
carriedthemselveswithasenseofprofessionalism,honesty,andrespectthatmadetheiremployees
desirableonthemarketfortheirhabitofpunctuality,politeness,andgivingarealdaysworkforareal
dayswage.
Andwhatifourorganizationsdevelopedfromwithinthecongregationsandconstituenciesthekindsof
insuranceprogramsforhealthcare,unemploymentinsurance,smallloansforworkrelatedcosts,and
evensupplementalwageassistancefordisadvantagedpeoplejuststartingajob,whichsomeundeniably
need.Totheextentthatourorganizationsbecomepoliticizedandsecularized,theywilldissolveandlose
theirChristianidentity.
Icanhearthequestionforminginsomeminds:Well,isntthatthejobofgovernment,anddontthese
programsexistthroughvariouswelfareschemes?Therearetwocriticaldifferences.First,thepeople
involvedincreatingtheseprogramsandholdingtheirparticipantstoaccountwithinthemwouldbe
peopleknowntothem.ThisaccountsformuchofthesuccessofmicroloaneffortsinIndiaandLatin
America.
SecondandhereIcallthechurchtoparticularaccountwewouldneedtogroundsuchprogramsina
clearmoralfoundation.AsChristians,weshouldseektoformmenandwomenwhoarenotmerely
workers,butpreparethemtobeevangelistsaswell,sincetheyvehadaprofoundpersonalencounterwith
thelivingChrist.Trygettingthatkindofprogramfundedbythepresentwelfareestablishment.

2014ChristianityToday