I

UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT

2 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
3 i6S- ---'
4 CASE NO. 97- 86-BK d/-AJC
5
6 IN RE: ,
.1
STEPHAN JAY LAWRENCE,
Debtor.
FIzL.1&T„ci.e.::
T7,57.7;74,i77.7.;5,.......
9 1-11)7.-k
10 / ctip 26 ,10,05 I
DECEMBER 28, 2000 FIL ED
i
11

HEARING RE: STATUS CONFERENCE

13
14
15 The above-entitled cause came on for hearing
16 before the HONORABLE A. JAY CRISTOL, at the Claude
17 Pepper Federal Building, 14th Floor, Miami, Dade
18 County, Florida, at 2:00 p.m. on Thursday,
19 December 28, 2000, and the following proceedings were
20 had:
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1
APPEARANCES:

BERGER DAVIS & SINGERMAN

3 by: JAMES FIERBERG, ESQUIRE
PAUL AVRON, ESQUIRE
on behalf of the Trustee
5 U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
by: GRISEL ALONSO, ATTORNEY-AT-LAW
b on behalf of the U.S. Attorney's Office
FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS
by: ELIZABETH GARCIA, ATTORNEY-AT-LAW
8 on behalf of the Federal Bureau of Prisons
9 OFFICE OF THE UNITED STATES TRUSTEE
by: ROBERT ANGUEIRA, ESQUIRE
10 on behalf of the Office of the United States
Trustee
11
ALSO PRESENT:
12
Juval Aviv (Via telephone)
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1 THE COURT: Two o'clock calendar. Stephan

2 Jay Lawrence, status conference. Would everyone state
3 their appearance, please.
4 MR. FIERBERG: Good afternoon, Judge. James
5 Fierberg, Berger Davis and Singerman, on behalf of the
6 Trustee, Alan Goldberg, and with me at counsel table is
7 my colleague, Paul Avron.
8 THE COURT: Very well.
9 MS. ALONSO: Good afternoon, Judge. Grisel
10 Alonso, Assistant United States Attorney. Also with me
11 today is Elizabeth Garcia, an attorney with the legal
12 staff of the Federal Bureau of Prisons, on behalf of
13 the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
14 THE COURT: Very well. Okay. We're here on
15 a status conference, I believe. What do we have to
16 talk about?
17 MR. FIERBERG: Judge, this is respective of
18 the Trustee's request for discovery from the Bureau of
19 Prisons for, more specifically, the tape recorded
20 conversations of Mr. Lawrence.
21 Before we begin, Judge, I'd like to make a
22 request that perhaps the Court could contact Mr. Juval
23 Aviv who is our special investigator under order of
24 this Court under seal. I think he has reviewed certain
25 of these tapes and his input and analysis may be

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1 helpful to the Court in determining whether this order

2 should be --
3 THE COURT: How could he review the tapes?
4 MR. FIERBERG: I beg your pardon?
5 THE COURT: How did he review them?
6 MR. FIERBERG: Because they were made
7 available to us and we --
8 THE COURT: Oh, they were? Oh, I'm sorry. I
9 thought that we were talking about whether you were
10 going to 'get to see them.
11 MR. FIERBERG: Judge, let me go back a second
12 before you call Mr. Aveve. On December 5th, Judge,
13 actually called it an emergency hearing in this matter,
14 we were unable to cooperatively and amicably work out
15 with the Bureau of Prisons pursuant to the procedures
16 that were discussed at the first hearing.
17 The Bureau was unwilling to voluntarily
18 provide the tapes. So we set this up for an emergency
19 hearing before Judge Utschig and after hearing counsel
20 Judge Utschig, in fact, entered an order and I have a
21 copy. I don't know if Your Honor has seen a copy.
22 THE COURT: No, I don't think I have. I was
unaware of it.
24 MR. FIERBERG: May I approach?
25 THE COURT: You may.

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1 Okay. I have seen it. Do you want me to get

2 Mr. Aveve on the line?
3 MR. FIERBERG: If you would, Judge. His
4 number is 941 --
5 THE COURT: All right. And you're aware that
6 the United States Trustee is here?
7 MR. FIERBERG: I am, Judge.
8 THE COURT: All right.
9 MR. FIERBERG: 941-463-3131, and he is in
10 Room 406.
11 (Whereupon, Mr. Aveve was contacted via
12 telephone.)
13 THE COURT: Hello, Mr. Aveve?
14 MR. AVEVE: Yes.
15 THE COURT: This is Judge Cristol. You're on
16 an open mike. You're in court on the matter of Stephan
17 Jay Lawrence and Mr. Jim Fierberg is at the podium.
18 Mr. Fierberg, proceed.
19 MR. FIERBERG: Thank you, Judge.
20 Good afternoon, Mr. Aveve.
21 THE COURT: Can you hear?
22 MR. AVEVE: Yes, I can hear. Thank you.
23 MR. FIERBERG: Judge, the order that I gave
24 to you as you just reviewed provides that the discovery
25 could continue through today subject to your further

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1 orders, and we're here today to provide an update and a

2 status report on the tapes that actually have been
3 provided. I do want to say that the Bureau of Prisons
4 have been most cooperative since the entry of that
5 order. We're very appreciative of what they have done
6 to help us.
7 Judge, the log that was provided to us on
8 December 5th showed approximately 610 or so phone calls
9 made by Mr. Lawrence between his incarceration on
10 September 15th and December 15th.
11 THE COURT: That's all?
12 MR. FIERBERG: That's all. He must have run
13
----- out. -o-f--d.me-s-i---Judge-: Because-- of- coat_ to _the estate
14 for the recording of all of those tapes, those
15 conversations, and the burden on the Bureau of Prisons,
16 we elected to make a sampling of the tapes, kind of
17 judicious sampling, - and we requested 41 conversations.
18 The bulk of them were calls to Mexico,
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4 Although we didn't find any smoking guns for
5 the lay people, Judge, we did find some interesting
6 material on the tapes that would lead me with my
7 knowledge of this case, and certainly Mr. Aveve with
8 his specialized knowledge, to believe that Mr. Lawrence
9 knows a lot about the Lawrence Family Inter Vivous
10 Trust and that he is continuing to control and
11 manipulate that trust from prison.
12 Let me give you a little bit of background of
13 what these tapes say.
14 THE COURT: Mr. Aveve, your phone is buzzing.
15 Are you still here?
16 MR. AVEVE: Yes, I'm here.
17 MR. FIERBERG: Mr. Lawrence spends a great
18 deal of time on these tapes, Judge,
19 the personal representative of the estate
20 of his late mother. That estate is comprised of some
21 nominal assets. There are three pieces of property; a
22 cooperative in New York City, and two condominiums in
23 South Florida, and that is it. We're not talking about
24 lot of value.
25 Nevertheless, Mr. Lawrence spends a great

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 deal of time on these tapes

7 Despite the nominal nature of that estate,

8 Mr.
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12 So there is some tie, annexes, that we can't
13 yet see between the probate estat by
14 and the offshore trust.
15 Judge, I have four tapes here. We asked
16 Cheryl if you had a tape recorder available, cassette
17 recorder, to listen to these. I think you'll find them
18
19 THE COURT: Pardon me. Yes, sir, what matter
20 are you on?
21 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: The Acelor matter.
22 THE COURT: That matter will be coming up
23 soon. I'll ask you to remain outside until we call it.
24 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yes, sir.
25 THE COURT: Thank you.

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1 MR. FIERBERG: We asked Cheryl if there was a
2 cassette recorder available to Your Honor. We could
3 not bring one in because of the marshalls, but if you
4 were to listen to some portions of these four tapes I
5 think you would be compelled, in conjunction with
6 Aveve's statements, to allow this order to continue
for a reasonable period of time_
Having said that, Miss Alonso just told me
9 that they, the Bureau of Prisons, does not have an
10 objection to a continuation of the order for reasonable
11 time. So maybe we can cut through this except to the
12 extent you'd be interested in hearing what is on the
13 tapes.
14 THE COURT: Well, my job is resolving
15 disputes. If you don't have a dispute, I think -- and
16 you can agree to what's a reasonable period of time,
17 let's dispose of that, and if you think there's
18 something that is important for me to hear, I'll
19 certainly hear it, but, again, there's no point in
20 pushing something that's already rolling.
21 MR. FIERBERG: I agree, Judge.
22 MS. ALONSO: We most certainly agree with
23 that statement, Your Honor, and that is precisely the
24 issue in this case, reasonableness, and the burden on
25 the Bureau of --

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1 THE COURT: What do you think, about 2007

2 would be a good extension?
3 MS. ALONSO: I'm sorry?
4 THE COURT: 2007?
'5 MS. ALONSO: Well, the problem, and it's a
6 real problem we have at the moment, in order to comply
7 with the order the Bureau has taken out 26 reels, and
8 these are the master reels that the Bureau has to take
9 out of circulation, and these are the reels in which
10 the conversations were taped, the sampling that the
11 Trustee requested, and these tapes are now completely
12 out of circulation and depending on the time frame --
13 THE COURT: Well, haven't they been copied so
14 they can be put back in?
15 MR. FIERBERG: Judge, there's an evidentiary
16 issue. I spoke with Miss Alonso on the way in here
17 that many, a vast majority of the tapes, can go back
18 into rotation immediately because they will never be
19 needed for evidentiary purposes. There are probably
20 eight or 10 of the 41 that is of interest to us.
21 MS. ALONSO: Right. That's an issue that we
22 heard this morning, but for the time being pursuant to
23 our order, the order that we agreed to, we were under
24 the impression that the Trustee would reimburse us and
25 actually buy/purchase reels.

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1 In terms of his -- we're going to be facing a

2 burden, a real burden, in terms of complying with the
3 order, taking these reels out of circulation and
4 depending on the time frame that we're speaking of,
5 with an inmate that makes a substantial amount of phone
6 calls, but I think this is a matter --
7 THE COURT: I thought they all make 610 calls
8 in 90 days?
9 MS. ALONSO: They need to pay for these phone
10 calls and they need to have money in their account to
11 cover the expenses of these phone calls. So I think if
12 we can somehow perhaps narrow the request -- the
13 Trustee was indicating to me privately that he wanted a
14 90 day extension of the order, and I think --
15 THE COURT: And what do you want?
16 MS. ALONSO: I think 30 days would be a
17 sufficient amount of time and perhaps a further
18 agreement that if they don't need these tapes notify us
19 in writing and we can put these reels back into
20 circulation and avoid any further delay and burden on
21 the Bureau, and also, obviously, the Trustee would be
22 saving himself a substantial amount of money for the
23 estate.
24 So that is our main concern, and certainly
25 the burden placed on the Bureau because we have not

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even reached the issue of reimbursement for overtime

for the personnel that has been pulled off of their
3 duties and - have to comply with making these tapes and
4 providing them to Trustee's counsel.
5 THE COURT: Well, I would suggest yo.0 all sit
6 down and go over this and see if you can come up with
7 an order, and if there are any items on which you're
not in accord, then I will give you a ruling.
9 MR. FIERBERG: Judge, may I address` the time
10 frame? Mr. Aveve may be able to help us with this.
11 There are matters ongoing in Europe that will
12 hopefully come to a head in the issuance of a marava
13 injunction in England and a freeze order in
14 Switzerland. Mr. Aveve has located accounts that we
15 believe belong to Mr. Lawrence. We need to have this
16 order extended at least long enough to allow Mr. Aveve
17
18 THE COURT: What's your estimate on the time,
19 Mr. Aveve?
r^,
L Li MR. AVEVE: To listen or to keep -- to listen
21 to new recordings?
THE COURT: To extend the order for listening
23 to new recordings. Mr. Fierberg has asked for 90 days,
24 the Government said they'd like 30 days. What's your
25 thought?

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1 MR. AVEVE: I think we could compromise. If

we can get another 30 days and revisit it again. We
3 are on the eve of freezing his bank accounts in
4 England, Switzerland and Lichtenstein.
5 I've provided the Court in England with an
6 affidavit based on our information. The Judge in
7 England has granted us an injunction under seal and
8 ex-parte and the banks in England have provided us with
9 all of the records of the accounts that we already knew
10 about, and indeed there are millions of dollars in
11 those accounts.
12 THE COURT: Well, that's very interesting.
13 So then let's go with 30 days. In fact, let's make it
14 40 days so maybe you won't have to come back.
15 MR. AVEVE: I appreciate that very much, yes.
16 THE COURT: So let's go with 40 days.
17 What else do we have to decide on that you
18 can't agree upon, if anything?
19 MR. FIERBERG: I think probably nothing,
20 Judge. We have a check we were going to present today
21 for the tapes and now we're going to amend that because
22 w e're going to put tapes back into rotation so we don't
23 have to pay for those.
24 THE COURT: Okay. Then work these things out
25 and whatever you can't work out you can, have a hearing

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1 whenever you need it, except you can't have one

2 tomorrow. I'm going flying.
3 MR. FIERBERG: I'm envious, Judge.
4 Should we set a status conference 40 days
5 out?
6 THE COURT: Let's set it sooner than 40 days.
7 Say, set it 30 days out or 35 days out, approximately.
8 MR. FIERBERG: And we'll see Barbara and have
9 that set up?
10 THE COURT: Uh-huh.
11 MR. FIERBERG: Okay. The only other issue,
12 Judge, as long as we're here, the Coudert Brothers as
13 you know have been retained as special counsel to deal
14 with the issues in Europe, and they have been required
15 to engage barristers to go into court there.
16 According to the terms of the order you
17 signed we're not officially able to engage them and pay
18 them for their work, or the Coudert Brothers is not.
19 We'd like to present, as long as we're here, another
20 order under seal amending the prior retention order of
21 Coudert Brothers to permit the engagement of the
22 barristers.
23 THE COURT: Solicitors?
24 MR. FIERBERG: That's right, Judge.
25 THE COURT: I thought that they were breaking

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1 that down and they were allowing solicitors to go into
2 court.
3 MR. FIERBERG: Apparently not vet.
4 THE COURT: No yet, okay.
5 MR. FIERBERG: And Mr. Avron is here and can
6 present that to the Court. I'll advise the Court that
7 we are going to present similar papers, hopefully in
8 the next week or 10 days, for Swiss counsel to carry
9 out what Mr. Aveve is alluding to and those will also
la come under seal.
11 THE COURT: Okay. Present that order, and
12 what else do we have to do here today?
13 MR. AVEVE: If I may, Your Honor, this is
14 Mr. Aveve?
15 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
16 MR. AVEVE: A prisoner has to submit
17 telephone numbers for approval. If we could get the
18 list of telephone numbers that he has submitted for
19 approval that would help us a lot to identify
20 furthermore the nominees that he's calling and under
21 code instructing them to move money.
22 THE COURT: Got that, Mr. Fierberg?
23 MR. FIERBERG: I did. We've discussed that
24 and I believe the Bureau's going to make that available
25 to us.

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THE COURT: Okay. Then the problem is

2 solved. Today's the 28th. Okay. This order has been
3 entered.
4 What more do we need to do here today,
5 Mr. Fierberg?
6 MR. FIERBERG: Judge, if you'll permit us,
7 we'll walk this through the Clerk's Office to make sure
8 it's sealed properly.
9 THE COURT: Government have anything else?
10 MS. ALONSO: The only thing is a housekeeping
11 matter. We are duly complying with Paragraph 6 of
12 Judge Utschig's December 18th order which was requiring
13 the Bureau to turn over an updated telephone log from
14 December 5 through December 19 -- I'm sorry -- it's
15 through today. Its further -- producing an updated
16 log through December 28, and we're doing that and we
17 also will be producing the authorized telephone list
18 that Mr. Lawrence has signed with the Bureau. We'll do
19 that.
20 THE COURT: Okay. So that takes care of that
21 problem. Then is there anything else we need to do?
22 MR. FIERBERG: I think that's all. Judge,
23 thank you for your time.
24 THE COURT: Okay. As far as the Government
25 is concerned, anytime you need a hearing it's yours for

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1 the asking. The Court is available 24 hours a day,

2 seven days a week, and whatever needs to be done to
3 resolve this problem we'll all try and work together to
4 resolve it.
5 Are we ready to close up?
6 MR. FIERBERG: We are.
THE COURT: Mr. Aveve, I heard you speak in
Dallas, Texas about two or three years ago.
9 MR. AVEVE: That's right, Judge.
10 THE COURT: It sounds like you do what you
said you could do.
12 MR. AVEVE: Yes, I did. I delivered on this
13 one and I'm very pleased of it. Thank you.
14 THE COURT: Okay. Toda raba.
15 MR. AVEVE: Toda raba. Thank you.
16 THE COURT: Okay. We'll finish this hearing
17 and good day.
18 MR. AVEVE: Okay. Thank you to you too.
19 THE COURT: Okay.
MR. FIERBERG: May I approach with the
2' orders, Judge?
22 THE COURT: You may, and you may have these
23 items. The order is signed.
24 MR. FIERBERG: Thank you, Judge. Have a
25 Happy New Year.

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1 THE COURT: Thank you.

(Whereupon, the hearing was concluded.)

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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

STATE OF FLORIDA )
3 : SS
COUNTY OF DADE )
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I, GWEN M. TIPALDI, Notary Public in and for
5 the State of Florida at Large, do hereby certify
that I was authorized to and did report the
6 foregoing proceeding; and that the transcript is a true
record.
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Dated this 15th day of September, 2005.
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