ZDC INTERVIEW 12/4/03

Phil Swinney (Military Operational Specialist MOS, on 9/11)

• No objections to recording.
• Hired by FAA in 1982 (at ZDC in 1987), over 1 Oyrs as MOS
• No military background.
• MOS requirements, only have to be a former controller.
• Pre-9/11 duties: a liason with the military to ZDC. Coordination anytime they
want to use restricted airspace. They contact me daily. "They" includes air force
bases. Worked with NORAD in practice scrambles - that is to say MOSs
scheduled airspace usage - did not get into the operations of it.
• No crisis-response responsibilities for MOSs.
• Military training on scrambles: No Pass Air Defense Radar (NOPAR) exercises
get from NEADs via fax, once or twice a year. NEADs provides MOS the
date/time an ac will enter the system to test the NEADs controllers and fighters
performance in scrambling ac. For exercises, I'd brief our controllers that the
exercise is being conducted. Did get the exercise scenarios, but had no input or
feedback. Essentially, was a trusted agent - but never had to meet with them -
they just faxed in the exercise (scenario, date, time.. .etc.)
• Last lOys has done about 3-4 real scrambles. Does not recall any specifics about
them.
• Almost always, the military is contacting the MOS, not the MOS contacting
NORAD. NEADs contacts him 75% of the time (SEADs 25%).
• In daily contact with Giant Killer. Coordinates the scheduling of restricted
airspace. Again, usually contacting him.
• Very little change in procedures with GK or Pautexant Advisory.
• Any contact with Langley? Only in that they are responsible for scheduling
MOA's for their exercises that involve ZDC airspace.
• Don't deal with Otis, AFB at all.

• 9/11: Scheduled for the 10-6, got in though around 9:05 am. MOS post was
vacant until he got in (standard) and the Area Manager would fill in. Walked into
the Center and was told immediately about NYC. Went to the Area Manager,
Kerry Johnson, and exchanged a few words (does not recall exactly what
information was given to him). Does not recall any info that HJ ac were involved
- in fact though it was private ac that crashed in NYC. But he basically don't
recall exactly what was passed down. Began answering phones, a lot of private
citizen calls.
• Don't recall any contacts with NEADs or with Andrews AFB about fighter
response. No contact with Secret Service.
• Don't really deal with HJs, don't have an SOPs for the MOS for HJ procedures. I
don't get involved with HJs.
• I don't remember the Air Defense fighters scrambling on 9/11.
• Does recall CAP being established over DC.
Has never been to NEADs.
Military personnel did come to ZDC and work out of his floor area (used his
secure phone) but he did not know what they were doing. Probably did know at
the time, but "not now." They were talking to NEADs at the time and I believe
they were discussing CAPs.
Did you have a clear understanding about what NORAD did pre-9/11? No, I had
a gut feeling, but no specifics of what they did.
Does not know about Quad 7's (7777)
AFIO, I know what it is, but don't get involved in it. Don't recall AFIO on 9/11.
Does not remember anything about AA77 or UA93. Nothing.
Today we coordinate a lot more CAP activity. Usually with the FAA rep in
Huntress.
No new MOS HJ procedures or guidelines. Those responsibilities are with the
Area Manager.