Jnanananda GiriSwami

Barlow Ganj
Mussoorie
15th December 1980

I am back in my home in Landour, Mussoorie. I now have five Interviews but have not taken a
single photograph (I will have to go back for those later). But where to go from here? Before I
left for Hardwar, I wrote to the Radha Soami Satsang in Beas to ask permission to Interview
someone living there whose work I admired (she prepares most of their books for publication).
They replied, No. Kalu Rinpoche’s secretary never even replied. The secretary to the
Theosophical Society never replied. My letter to Father Bede Griffiths has been returned: the
address is wrong. Radha Dasi in Vrindavan says: You will love the special atmosphere of
Vrindavan — do come — but, sorry, my own interviewing days are over.
There are two positive replies. Swami Satchidanand — he signs himself: Ever your Self — he
says Mother Krishnabai will be happy to welcome me to Anandashram (the Ashram of the late
Swami Ramdas). The other is from General Joginder Singh in Chandigarh: he is a sort of
secretary-devotee of Sant Gulab Singh who is over 100 and has one American girl disciple
who has lived with him and served him many years. I had assured them the Interview would
be painless — they have given me a date next month.
With these two hopeful signs: one will take me to the south of India, the other to the north —
the problem is what to do and where to go inbetween? My wife says: Just turn up at all the
places you want to go to and play it by ear — writing to Ashrams is hopeless!
The next day, this new approach is encouraged by our Swiss friend, Swami Jnanananda, who
has walked up the hill to see us from his forest retreat. He says: Do this book as part of your
sadhana — selflessly — and you will see, as you go from place to place you will be guided to
those who are already marked to give the Interviews.
He is aware of my apprehensiveness about travelling. In the past, wherever I had to go in
India I was accompanying my guru as part of his entourage: all arrangements were made by
others — I was just to follow, to get into the car or train or plane. It was the same with
accommodation: Please, this is your room.
Swami Jnanananda is right: I start packing, sort out my audio cassettes and begin studying
the Ashram map of India.
But before I can leave on the search for the already marked and chosen, I am going to a
nearby village I know well. There is a simple hut surrounded by flowers and woods and
superb views: here enveloped in peace and solitude lives our Swiss Swami friend, wise,
gentle and ever encouraging…a true friend.

Interview 6
Swamiji, the last Interview was given by the Duchessa Simonetta Colonna de Cesaro; she
was so volatile that she started her story in the middle and gave the beginning at the end. So
if you don’t mind, could you start at the beginning? Of course, I know you are Swiss by birth
and that you have lived in India continuously for nearly 30 years — but can you tell me
something about your past?
For anyone who has renounced the world, there is no past.
Were you not a musician in your early life in Europe?
I was never a professional musician. I had a deep interest in music, but from the age of 14 I
was inspired by Eastern teachings. Even then I wanted to come to India. At the age of 23 this
was realized: I came leaving Switzerland and my past for good. I have never gone back.
When you said there was no past, what did you mean?
At the time of initiation, the guru absolves you of your past, hence a New Life — you enter the
New Life.
Did it take you long to meet your guru?
One week.
Oh! You must have heard about him before coming here.
No, no!
But how did you find him? Coming to India in those days at the age of 23 wasn’t so common.
True — I had never heard of anyone who had done it. So many tried to discourage me, but as
soon as I arrived here everything happened. The guru actually expected me — he knew I was
coming on such-and-such a date. I didn’t know myself. He told a disciple a person would
arrive while he was away and to ask him — me — to wait three days. I waited. I could have
chosen between two persons — each could have been my guru. But my natural inclination
drew me to the person who kept me waiting.
Where did all this happen?
Calcutta — Dakshineswar.
How long did you stay with your guru?
Twelve years — as long as he lived. After he left this world I never returned to Calcutta, I
stayed in the Himalayas. My guru took me each year for five or six months to Rishikesh or
Hardwar and gave me a place by the Ganga for meditation. During those twelve years I spent
all my time by the banks of the Ganga.
Can you speak about the spiritual discipline he taught?
He taught kriya yoga. He insisted on regular practice. Along with renunciation, discipline is
essential. There must be regular practice of a guru-given technique and mantra. In order to
realize these practices, I was drawn to complete renunciation: it is the best way to have
sufficient time and to leave off thoughts of the world.
How did you support yourself?
The guru took care of me in every way. He blessed me for the future, and he’s still taking care
of me now.
You haven’t mentioned his name. Was he connected with Paramahansa Yogananda, as he
taught kriya yoga?
His name was Swami Atmananda Giri. His guru was Swami Kevalananda, Yogananda’s
Sanskrit teacher. But my guru, Swami Atmananda Giri, actually took sannyas initiation from
Yogananda.
How old was your guru when he left the body? As you were still so young, did you feel the
need to go to another guru for instruction?
He was 68. No — No — there was no need! He told me how to carry on, he told me before
his passing.
Did you wait long before taking sannyas?
Three years. First I lived in the Ashram as a brahmachari.
Can you give an explanation of sannyas?
We belong to the order known as Dasnaami sannyasis which was founded in the nineth
century by Adi Shankaracharya. Sannyas means renunciation; it is the fourth Ashram in
Indian culture. The first is brahmacharya — student life. The second is grahastha — the
householder’s life. The third is vanaprastha — the life of retirement from wordly pursuits. The
fourth is sannyas — the life of complete renunciation dedicated to the teaching of divine
knowledge. The divisions can be described like this: the first is one of addition, for a student
must acquire knowledge. The second is one of subtraction, for a householder supports his
family. The third is one of multiplication because having retired from the worldly life one has
nothing else to do but acquire inner knowledge. The fourth is one of division; that is the time
to distribute these inner riches for the enlightenment of others. So really to enter sannyas
means to dwell in God.
You are non-Indian, non-Hindu, non-caste. Are you accepted by other sannyasis?
I have not only been accepted, but legally also. There are some orthodox sections that may
not accept this, but those in authority do. I became a sannyasi according to Hindu rites.
When you say legally, what does that mean?
It has been attested by the Court, by the Government.
But why?
The guru said it would be of some use.
Are you an Indian citizen?
I deem myself so. According to a Hindu law which is now not in vogue, by entering sannyas I
automatically become a Hindu. As it’s not the prevalent law I abide by the present rules — my
foreign nationality has stayed all these years, and I get a yearly visa which is a formality,
nothing more.
Can you speak more about the teachings?
All spiritual teaching are the same: the essence is to dwell in God, to dwell in the Reality at all
times. By spiritual practice one aims to lose one’s little self to become one with the Ideal.
Do you accept disciples and teach?
I pass on what my guru taught me when there is a demand.
But you do have disciples?
There are some people who call themselves disciples. These teachings are in the traditional
line, but specifically adapted to the individual. Beside the technical aspect of yoga, one has to
pass on the subtler aspect which leads to the ultimate transformation of each person who
takes to the teachings. No two are alike. The exact nature of the teachings cannot be
disclosed. It is beyond any words — call it grace, God’s grace! To pass on grace, and to be
receptive to grace, that is itself grace.
In the early days did you have to study Sanskrit, or did your guru teach in English?
He spoke to me in English. But there was not much talking. He asked me to practice what he
taught me. Studying the ancient scriptures was my own liking: his emphasis was on regular
meditation, discipline, the remembrance of God. It was not a question of study from books to
add to one’s knowledge. It was to surrender to the Divine to feel what is meant by Reality or
Absolute Truth. To feel this is to know It. Such feeling comes by intense self-giving. It is the
grace of the unspeakable power of the Divine that opens the way to bestow the new life.
Earlier you mentioned our backgrounds, hinting perhaps at our karmic destiny. Would you say
it is this that causes us to be drawn to a particular guru?
Everything is due to past determination. There must be sincere longing, sincere prayer —
plus God’s grace. It is that grace and the blessings of some good soul. Such good souls are
everywhere in the world. The blessings of a good soul in the West may help a person to go to
the East.
Swamiji, can you say something about the five thieves — lust, anger, greed, attachment and
pride?
They are known as the five thieves because they steal true happiness: they take man away
from the eternal joy which lies in Reality. These thieves are the deluding factors, for man
easily gets identified with lust, anger, greed, infatuation and ego. All spiritual practice is to
enable us to eradicate these evils. Otherwise, there’s no meaning in any practice. Holiness,
purity, is when we are transformed and these evils have no existence within us. When they
are unmasked, love shines forth.
What are the outer signs of a person who has controlled these thieves?
He is detached. He is detached even when they are present in his environment. Attachment
to the five thieves is due to ignorance. Detachment is due to knowledge.
What advice do you give to someone wishing to break away from these thieves?
If they haven’t yet found a guru, they should pray to God ceaselessly for a guide. After finding
a guide — a teacher — they should serve him in any way they are capable and follow the
teachings as far as possible. If one does not have a guru, one at least should cultivate the
company of good persons, seekers of the way: they can learn much from them.
Would you say it’s essential to have a living teacher?
I would say so.
These days there’s no shortage of imperfect teachers. How can sincere seekers avoid falling
into their hands? Or is there no such thing as an imperfect, false guru?
If one is false the guru will also be false. In the guru-disciple relationship there are many
obstacles, the greatest being doubt. There will be persons questioning the disciple: How do
you know if your guru is realized, if he’s competent? They try to awaken doubts, and should
there be doubts, this is not a true disciple. Personally speaking, I found the guru who
happened to be my guru was much better, more evolved than I was, so it was to my
advantage to follow him. One follows the guru because one wants to follow God, and if one is
sincere in following God, then the guru will become the instrument of God.
Also, it is not a question of my guru and your guru and someone else’s guru: there is only the
Guru. Guru is a state of consciousness — it is not a person. The person is only the instrument
through which the power of guru flows. Hence to say: My guru, is belittling the guru. It’s also
the cause of much confusion.
Would you say there’s any advantage to studying spiritual books or scriptures without having
a living teacher?
Yes, they prepare a person for more personal guidance.
Is it essential to receive initiation from the guru?
That depends on the guru. To have a guru usually means one gets initiation from him, but
some gurus don’t give formal initiation. It depends entirely on the guru’s will.
What should be the aim of a seeker after Truth?
Truth.
You spoke about the importance of meditation. Can you speak about the meditation you
practice?
It all depends on the guru’s instructions, which are usually given in secret. But essentially,
meditation means to quieten the mind — more than that, to quieten oneself. That means
silent in mind, body, feelings, thoughts; above all, to be steady at heart within, for at heart
thou art. To be steady in the foremost centre of one’s being, or consciousness, practice of
equanimity, practice of renunciation, practice of the remembrance of God are essential. Then
alone one can take refuge in the innermost silence. The state of being is beyond silence itself:
it’s inexpressible.
Swamiji, do you still sit at fixed times for meditation, or do you consider your daily activities as
meditation?
No. The particular time to meditate is one of the conditions laid down by the guru. It should go
on indefinitely, irrespective of any thought that one has realized or not realized anything. But
of course, the whole day should be spent in practicing the presence of God, practicing the
presence of that Being.
Do you sit at any particular time?
In the early morning — it’s called the hour of Brahma — 4 o’clock till sunrise. This is
traditionally the time when yogis and sanyasis practice meditation. The difference between a
beginner and an adept is that for the beginner it’s an effort, for the adept it’s natural.
Again, would you say this naturalness comes from our background inclinations?
Every sort of practice becomes natural in course of time. But here we are dealing with the
intrinsic nature of one’s own self, one’sown being. So one can say that when meditation
becomes one’ own nature it is natural.
Like most sannyasis you wear simple orange cloth, do you consider that important?
This sort of uniform is helpful in the beginning: it’s like hedging a small plant, because like this
one is not troubled by the world. One ultimately outgrows the colour. One ultimately outgrows
all outward signs. In the life of renunciation, simplicity is foremost.
Do you observe any rituals?
None of my own; sometimes I observe the rituals of my friends. To place a flower in a vase is
a ritual. One can make one’s whole life a ritual without making it a rite. Everything can be a
ritual if all one’s actions are offered to God. A ritual means to commune with God.
Is it possible to be married and live a spiritual life?
In the path I am following, marriage is not advocated. It is a way taken after one has done
with the world. But generally speaking, marriage is no obstacle on the spiritual path. Most
rishis and sages of bygone times were married.
If a young man wishes to take the path of renunciation, how should he overcome sensual
desire, which is instinctive?
That path of renunciation is not advisable for young people; it is advocated in exceptional
cases when the guru through insight knows it is possible. Generally, one should pass through
the life of a householder, but on reaching a certain stage, retire from the worldly life — it can
be along with one’s wife — and then devote one’s time entirely to the spiritual life.
Is this practical for those living in the West under the present hectic conditions?
I cannot say what is happening in the West; it is the natural evolution of man that he should
retire from material involvement when he grows old wherever he lives. Otherwise the purpose
of life is unfulfilled. Family life, earning money for a reasonable living, doing good for one’s
country, etc., is called dharma — good actions. This one should do. But above all, one should
know how to retire from these outer actions because the inner life also has a demand. The
later stage of one’s life is for contemplation — everything becomes subordinate to realizing
God.
Now you have asked me about the hectic conditions under which most people live in the
West. I believe the time will come when only those who meditate will be able to sleep at night.
The total dependency on money and the security we imagine it brings is total ignorance if we
are afraid to be alone without material possessions. At the time of death even millionaires are
alone — nothing outside can help us. We are alone with our fears if we are rooted to the body,
and we carry those impressions with us into the Beyond. Those who have meditated will also
be alone when they leave, but will be filled with peace and they will carry that peace with
them. To forget the world makes man a pilgrim; to forget the next world makes him a saint; to
forget the ego gives him self-realization; forgetfulness of the forgetful is perfection.

Swamiji, that’s extremely moving, but can these profound teachings be applied by those living
in the West?
In truth there is neither East nor West — there is one humanity: these teachings are Eternal,
they propagate the Eternal, they help humanity to realize that which is Eternal. Man’s
involvement in materialism is an experiment; he plays with nature and nature plays with him.
Gradually man wants to become the master, so he puts away his toys and looks towards
himself to find a marvel — there is no greater creation than himself. He can then probe the
mystery of his own being, and it is here that the Eternal teachings come as a guide. So
anybody anywhere can follow such teachings. For someone like myself, India seems to be
the place for this life’s evolution, but that does not mean that those who yearn for the new life
cannot find it in the West. We should go beyond the names and forms they represent and
arrive at the nameless, the formless Truth that has Its being everywhere. It is universal
understanding, universal realization, complete identification with the higher life that alone
brings salvation to Christians in the West as well as Hindus in the East.
Can you ever see yourself living again in Switzerland?
Switzerland is within me.
Swamiji, when I wrote to you about these Interviews, you replied the idea was good but would
I be able to get the truth? What did you mean?
Very few know the truth. If you are in quest of the truth, you cannot get the untruth. Life
changes for everyone; while living in this life we are to start a new life. The new life has to
become the real life, then only is it to be mentioned as something auspicious. Otherwise the
new life may change into a newer life or even change back into the old life. The question is:
Who is living? What is life? What is the aim of life?
As you go on collecting these Interviews, try to get at the truth by asking these questions.
People often ask me why I have chosen this path. From my early days I wanted to know the
purpose of life, what one can attain within a lifetime. If I become an artist, what is the ultimate
art? If I become a poet, what is the ultimate poem? If I become a musician, what is the
ultimate music? I tried all these things; very soon I realized there is no ultimate. So then I
wanted to know the purpose of this life which is made up of so many moments: what is a
moment of life — a moment of consciousness — a moment of existence? And as I was asking
these questions — I was living in England in those days — I was asking: What is time? The
reply was: We have no time to know what time is. Then my thoughts went to the East, for
traditionally it has always been the place where people have found time to enquire into time.
You see, I didn’t find any purpose in this life. What to do? Whatever one achieves, is there an
ultimate satisfaction? Now I will tell you because I know you were a musician: I went to
London to enroll at the Royal College of Music. They said: You are too old! That’s strange — I
thought — hardly 20 and too old… already one life gone. It was only when I met the guru that
I understood — he told me: First look for God, then everything else will be given to you. We
are all running after the lights and delights of the world not realizing we are sacrificing God
Himself.
Swamiji, everyone is seeking happiness…it’s the true nature of our being. But what is the
secret of happiness?
Contentment.
How is it achieved?
Not by seeking happiness.
How does one know when it is achieved?
Because you will be happiness yourself.
So what is the difference between happiness and contentment?
Contentment is self-inherent happiness. Whereas the happiness one strives for is illusion. It is
never in the present. Man is happiness himself. But due to lack of contentment he misses that
happiness. Contentment is poise. Poise is attained through self-purification.
What is the impurity in man’s nature and being?
His impurity is his state of self-forgetfulness. I don’t mean impurity in a material sense, or
even in a mental sense. It simply means man has forgotten his identity, that is spirit, that is
being. And he has lost himself in the world of becoming, thereby forgetting his being.
Can you expand on what you were saying about inner calm at the time of our physical death?
Life can be beautiful if enriched by inner silence: what you may call silently loving, silently
feeling, silently thinking; such a life fulfills the purpose of life. That is to live correctly. If we live
correctly, we are able to face death fearlessly. That incident in life known as death we have to
face without fear, otherwise death becomes distorted and we cannot pass through it in peace.
So if we find the right way of living, the secret way of dying will be revealed. Death is the door
through which we pass into life renewed.
Although I know you live this solitary life in peace with yourself, are you ever lonely?
There’s no such thing as loneliness. One likes company for the sake of spiritual discussion,
for the sake of satsang, for the give and take which is part of life. The reason why there’s no
such thing as loneliness is because when one is alone, one is alone with God, and when one
is in company, one is in company with God.
Can you say something about this one-roomed dwelling which just has a bed, some books, a
corner fitted as a simple kitchen? Have you been here long?
The owner of this estate met me when I was living on the banks of the Ganga. He suggested I
should try the solitude of the forest. Reluctantly I came here. At first I stayed only a few
months at a time. It has become a bit like a permanent abode. When I am here I manage
everything myself. But a sannyasi is homeless — it is one of the conditions. The whole world
is his home, and as such, he is not bound by any one place. Living this simple way has never
been a problem because everything had to be given up, everything had to be forgotten.
We should never forget — those of us who have been drawn to live in India — we are living
here by God’s will. The spiritual life is the beginning, the middle and the end of all life:
everything is subordinate to the spiritual ideal, everything else is a play. I found the one great
difference between the East and the West is that in the West everything of this world seems
real, whereas in the East one sees everything is a play, and only God is real.
…… Now I think we should stop. You should eat some food here. As you know, I only make
rice and lentils, but I am happy to share them with you.
There is no need, really.
Look, I have to eat, you have to eat, you can join me. This is what I eat every day. It must
have taken you an hour to walk here.
Well, I have brought some biscuits and fruit…
Good. We will share. Today God is giving us a feast.
Swami Jnanananda Giri after having lived in India for over 50 years is in his mid-seventies
and now lives in a stone hexagonal 2-story cottage in Dehra Dun. It was designed by a
famous architect and built for him by his main disciple. The interior is unique as every room is
like a temple. The grand sweeping curved staircase is approached through a large wide arch
at the foot of which is an enormous bronze baby Ganesh, 4-feet by 3-feet, poised to crawl up
the stairs. There is a great deal of traffic noise outside, but once inside this enchanted domain
one is blissfully unaware of such things.

Swamiji’s small Tibetan Apso dog called Dharma, to whom he has become extremely
devoted, has also become famous. The dog keeps the devotees who come for the evening
satsang and kirtan very much on their toes, and is not above biting them. When this happens,
Swamiji smiles and says that Dharma is helping them to work off their karma! The dog arrived
one day alone in a taxi from Delhi when Swamiji was away. His disciple, Maitreyi, was sure
Swamiji, no fan of pets, would not want to keep him, but when she contacted him by phone
he said mysteriously that the dog had come for a reason and should stay. It now keeps all -
even the most serious seekers - in line.

“Transcendent Journey”, Swamiji’s long-awaited autobiography, has recently been published,

and such is Swamiji’s breadth of vision and his inspiring experiences in the company of some
of India’s greatest visionaries and saints, it will surely take its place along-side the perennial,
“Autobiography of a Yogi”, by Swami Yogananda.

With his Tibetan dog in 2005

Swamiji walks me part of the way up the hill back to Landour. He is giving me more advice. I
realize an important point: an Interviewer should never talk about his own guru or path —
unless asked. All disciples believe they have the greatest guru in the world so it’s unlikely they
will want to know about yours anyway.
Swamiji is telling me a story:
"I was invited to visit an Ashram…the guru was having a tremendous success abroad. One of
the devotees asked me: What do you think of our guru? I replied: Nothing! Stunned offence.
Our guru is God in human form — the devotee protested. I asked: What do you think of my
guru? They didn’t know who my guru is. Then I said: Just as you don’t know anything about
my guru, I don’t know anything about yours — but in fact, there’s no such thing as my guru or
your guru…there is The Guru because God Himself cares to work through some human form
we call guru".
From today I will not compare gurus or paths or practices — I am simply to record whatever
those whom I Interview care to tell me about them.
From today I am to see myself as an extension of the tape recorder, nothing more.
From today I am to be detached from caring whether those approached give me an
Interview or not; it’s enough to ask.
From today I am to float along and enjoy; wherever I am to be dragged will be right, whatever
happens will be right.

Chaar Dhaam Pilgrimage

04 June 2006, Sunday

There was Puja and Homa at the house of Sri Janardhan Reddy in Delhi.
We had nice discussions with the Pujari (a Doctor) related to Vedas
and with Nareshji.

Nareshji explained that the first naama of the Lord in Vishnusahasranaama

is "Vishvam". The world is a manifestation of the Lord. Everything in the
world is filled with the Lord. This is what the story of Prahalaada
shows. The asura employed various means like fire, water, earth, wild
animals, serpents, murderers, etc to kill Prahalaada. But as Vishnu resided
in all of them, the devotee was saved. The asura did not expect Vishnu to
be in an inert stone pillar. The Lord was there too !!!

The blessed house of Sri Janardhan Reddy was like an ashram. Anyone who
comes to the house did not go without being fed well. I have heard of
such hospitality, but here I was seeing it with my own eyes.

The group that went on the pilgrimage were

1. Sri Gopi Krishna - An officer in ILO from Delhi
2. Sri Raghava Rao - An educationalist from Hyderabad
3. Sri Prasanna Kumar - An MBA student from Hyderabad
4. Sri Anjaiah - An officer in an insurance company from Karim Nagar, AP
5. Sri Radha Krishna - Anjaiah's friend from Karim Nagar, AP
6. Br. Hari Sharanam - A parivrajak brahmachari from Vrindavan
7. Sri Gokulmuthu - A software engineer from Bangalore

Gopiji was the organizer and coordinator of the pilgrimage. He knew

a lot of ashrams in the area and arranged accommodation and prasad
in those places.

The aim of the pilgrimage was to visit the Chaar Dhaam and other
interesting people and places en route - mainly sadhus and ashrams.
The group was very devoted. They chanted Vishnusahasranaamam at least
once everyday. They did japa and sang bhajans whenever possible.

We left Delhi at night.

05 June 2006, Monday

We reached Kailash Ashram, Rishikesh in the morning. We had darshan of

Swami Medhananda Puri. He made coffee for us. As the next day was
Ganga Dusshera, we were adviced to go to Gangotri first. The usual
Chaar Dhaam trip is to visit Yamunotri first and then go to
Gangotri. We planned to visit Gangotri first to wish Her
"Happy Birthday".

We left Rishikesh to Uttarkashi. We reached Sivananda Ashram, Ganeshpuri,

UttarKashi in the evening. We had dinner and participated in the evening
Bhajans. The rooms were very good and the hospitality was excellent.
We had a nice sleep.

06 June 2006, Tuesday

We started from Uttarkashi towards Gangotri. On the way, we saw

a mountain with snow on the top. By coincidence, the shape of the
white snow seen from the van looked like the letter OM. The devotees
were thrilled.

We took bath in the hot spring at Ganganani.

We reached Gangotri in the midst of a major traffic jam. We were 2km

from the Gangotri temple. We decided to get down and walk. No sooner
than we had walked half a kilometer, when suddenly we saw a familiar
person coming towards us. It was Sri Sri Ravishankar. We bowed down
to him and made pranams. He greeted us with a smile and quickly went
on his way. We were standing wondering at our good fortune.

We went further and we found a very old lady accompanied by two other
ladies slightly younger to her, trying hard to walk towards Gangotri
with her heavy bag, etc. We took the bag from her and helped her to
the temple holding her hand. We felt blessed to be able to help them
at the holy place.

We offered prayers at the banks of Ganga at Gangotri. We had darshan

at the temple and started back to Uttarkashi.

On the way, Gopiji was having interesting discussions with our driver
Sri Prabhakar. Prabhakar was a young naughty youth with a good sense
of values, but short temper. Sometimes he gets calculative and tries
to get more money (natural). Overall he was a nice and interesting
person.
We reached Uttarkashi at nightfall. We had dinner at the ashram and
went to sleep.

07 June 2006, Wednesday

We got up early in the morning and went to the banks of Ganga. The
devotees chanted Vishnusahasranaam. The sun rise from behind the
mountains, the sound of Ganga flowing mixed with the melodious
chanting of Vishnusahasranaam was enchanting.

It was the day of Nirjala Ekadasi. As we are not used to it, we

were served some snacks at the ashram. We had satsangh with
Swami Premanandaji Maharaj. Raghavji asked the Swamiji to give us
a message. Swamiji said "Be thankful to the Lord for whatever
that happens in life. It is by His will and judgement that things
happen. Don't complaint against or reject His will." He took some
annaprasad of Puri Jagannathji and gave to Radhakrishnanji. He
asked Radhakrishnanji to eat it. He ate it. Swamiji said, "See,
today is Ekadasi. But he did not think, 'Why is Swamiji doing a
foolish thing? Today is Ekadasi and still he is asking me to
eat rice. I will not eat it.' He thought, 'Swamiji knows today
is Ekadasi. Still he is asking me to eat this. So it must be fine
to eat it.' This should be your attitude. You should rely on the
judgement of God.

He also said that it is the Lord who has become everything in the
world. Learn to see the Lord everywhere. At the same time, use
your intelligence also. He told the story of the Elephant God and
the Mahout God.

We took leave of Swamiji and visited the Vishwanath temple at

Uttarkashi. There was a huge trident, which was supposed to have
been used by Shiva.

Then we went towards Yamunotri. We reached Hanuman Chatti at night.

08 June 2006, Thursday

We started in the morning. We went upto Janaki Chatti by a local

jeep and started trekking to Yamunotri. The village houses were
interesting. The horses, the palkis, etc were a new experience.
The trek was steep. It was compensated by the beautiful scenery.
We were in no hurry. We reached Yamunotri. The water in the
river was cold. Some of us took a dip while others just sprinkled
the water on the head. We took bath in the hot spring water.

There was a Hanuman and Rama temple near the Yamunotri temple.
Thanks to Hari Sharanam Maharaj, our afternoon prasad was arranged
in the temple. After prasad, the devotees chanted Vishnusahasranaam
outside the temple. Then we started trekking down.

Gopiji's arthritis gave him a tough time, but he beared it all with
cheer. We reached Hanuman Chatti in the evening and stayed there
for the night.

09 June 2006, Friday

In the morning, we started the long drive towards Kedarnath. The

devotees chanted Vishnusahasranaam and sang some bhajans in the van.
On the way, the spring in the van got broken and we had to spend a
few hours at Barkot to get it repaired.

We had a nice satsangh while waiting for the van to get repaired.
Gopiji told us about the plans of the purohit, who did puja in
Reddyji's house. The purohit wanted to start a Veda Patashala, but
his plans did not materialize fully. He had spend lakhs of rupees
on it. With Gopiji's support, they are planning to revive it. We
also had various discussions on spiritual life.

When the van got fixed, we continued our journey.

On the way we had a view of the huge Tehri dam.

We reached Shrinagar (Uttaranchal) by night fall. We stayed there

in the night. As this falls on the way to Hemakund Sahib, there
were a lot of Sikh pilgrims in Shrinagar and on the roads.

10 June 2006, Saturday

We started towards Kedarnath. We stopped at Guptakashi. We went

to Sri Srividhya Dhaam. It is a residential patashala and a
charitable rest house for sadhus and sadhaks. We left our luggage
there.

We went to the place where a friend of Gopiji - Sri Ramamoorthyji

- is leading a secluded life. There is a shiva temple where Nala
had worshipped. There is a place where Nala did tapas. We also
saw the samadhi of Damayanti from a distance. There were rice and
potato fields all round. There were rows of mountains one behind
the other in all directions. The place was very beautiful.

Sri Ramamoorthyji showed us Bhoj Patra. It is the bark of a tree

and is like paper. It is used to write sacred texts. He also
gave some Kedarnath prasad. He gave Gopiji a magnetic knee cap to
alleviate some knee pain.

We reached Gauri Kund at the base of Kedarnath before noon. We

took bath in the hot spring and started trekking up. The place
was very crowded. Horses and palkis were plying in the service
of pilgrims who could not or did not want to trek by foot. We
heard there were more than 20,000 horses in service there. There
is helicopter service also. The trek is not as steep as Yamunotri,
but it is twice as long. It started raining as we neared the
Kedarnath temple. We reached the top in the night. We took a
room and slept.

11 June 2006, Sunday

We got up in the morning. The sun rising over the snow clad peak
of Nilakanta was an enchanting sight.

We had arranged for a priest to help us worship the Lord. He wanted

us to tell lies and cut the queue, etc. We told him that it was ok
with us to stand for a couple of hours in the queue, but we did
not want to spoil our spiritual mood by telling lies and fighting
with other righteous devotees. The queue moved fast. After a short
wait, we had a nice darshan of the Lord. We worshipped Him to our
hearts satisfaction. We blessed the Lord that He soon gets freed
from the corrupt pandas and priests.

We had a brunch and started trekking down. We reached Gauri Kund

in the early hours of the evening. We sprinkled water from Gauri
Kund on our heads and proceeded.

We went to the temple of Triyuginarayan. The tradition says that

this is where Shiva married Parvati. Lord Narayana was the priest
and the homa kund is being kept akhanda since then. We worshipped
the Lord ignoring the modern day priests, who tried hard to help
us lighten our purses.

On the way back, Sri Prabhakar shown us a temple with a golden

color dome like structure, on the distant slope of a mountain.
He said that it was the place where Shiva cut of the head of
Ganesha, who did not let him in on the orders of Parvati. We
did not have time to visit that temple.

We reached Sri Srividhya Dhaam at Guptakashi at night fall. We

had prasad there and spent the night there.

12 June 2006, Monday

We reached Chopta, the base of Tunganath. We decided to

visit Sri Tunganathji after long deliberation. It is a three
kilometers steep climb. We took the services of horses. Anjaiah
was very frightened to climb on a horse. He walked all the way
up to the great appreciation of the rest of the group. The
scenery on the way up was very beautiful. Its beauty was
excelled only by the scenery on the top of the mountain, where
the temple of Sri Tunganathji was situated. It was a very calm
place. There were not many people. We had a nice darshan and
sat quietly for sometime facing the vast stretches of open
meadows. This place was too high up for the pine trees to grow.
We could clearly see the line above which the tall pine trees
dared not to set their foot. Only humble ferns, grass, and some
small plants and creepers grew in this place. Most of the plants
had beautiful small flowers. This seemed to teach us the attitude
we should have when approaching the Lord.

Upon enquiry, we found that accommodation is available at the top

of the hill with all facilities for a very low price. We decided
to plan to come there and spend a week or so, in solitude sometime
in future. It is a very good place to test your nerves on a
solitary life.

We reluctantly came down from Tunganath. We started towards

Joshimath. We reached Joshimath at night. We had a darshan of
Swami Swaroopanandaji Maharaj, the Shakaracharya of the Math.
Gopiji and the other devotees had the privilege of rendering
some personal service to the Swami. They felt very blessed. We
had prasad in the Math and our accommodation was also arranged
there.
After enquiring about our whereabouts and welfare, the Sankaracharya
encouraged us to ask questions. Gopiji asked a question, after much
hesitation.

G: Of the two great devotees of Lord - Bhishma and Vibhishana - in

Kaliyuga, whom should we follow? Bhishma has waged war in favor
of Kauravas and against Pandavas knowing fully well that Kauravas
are on the wrong side and God and Truth are on the side of Pandavas,
whereas Vibhishana has deserted his own brother, who committed a
mistake, and surrendered to their enemy, Sri Rama, and then became
responsible in killing his own brother, Ravana, in the hands of Sri Rama.

S: Bhishma is a sign of ego. Bhimshma has promised to his father that

he will not claim either the kingdom or the crown and, at the same time
taken a vow to protect the throne and the kingdom of Kauravas as long
as he is alive. And, he stuck to his vow till his last breadth. Bhimsha says
to Draupadi, when he was on the bed of arrows, that he could not object
to the misdeeds of Duryodhana and Kauravas earlier, as his blood was
polluted by the food offered to him by Kauravas, and now that blood
was taken out by the arrows of Arjuna and is now in a position to teach
Dharma to Yudhishtara.

In the case of Vibhishana, he has not left the company of his brother
Ravana of his own volition. He was asked to leave Lanka by Ravana,
when the former pointed out Ravana's mistakes. Instead of getting killed
in the hands of an Asura like Ravana, Vibhishana thought it better to surrender
to Sri Rama, who is the incarnation of Lord Vishnu, and serve Him. Due to
his devotion and surrender to Sri Rama, Vibhishana, has not only got the
love and protection of Sri Rama, but also became the king of Lanka.

Coming to the present conditions, one has to protect Dharma while

surrendering one's own actions to Lord. Though adharma appears to be
winning, ultimately Dharma will emerge victorious and the present day
human being should follow what is dharma. In other words, one should
have the dedication to duty of Bhishma and devotion of Vibhishana in
this Kaliyuga.

13 June 2006, Tuesday

We visited the place where some of the Sankaracharyas had done

a lot of Tapas. Then we visited the temple where Sankara was
saved by his disciple from death at the hands of a Kapalika.

We had breakfast and started towards the last of the Chaar

Dhaams - Sri Badrinathji.

We reached Badrinath before noon. We took accomodation at the

Annadaana Chatram of Sri Chinna Jeeyar. We went to see the temple.
We wanted to take bath in the hot spring before lunch. As they
were cleaning the tank, we just wetted our mortal frames and
had prasad at the Chatram where we were staying.

We had darshan of Sri Badrinathji. It is a staggering feeling

to even think that Lord Narayana is doing Tapas in this place.
We came back to the Chartam in the evening. At 6pm, the
volunteers managing the Chatram chanted Vishnusahasranaam
and did puja to Sriman Narayana in the small temple in the
Chatram. It was a small devoted gathering.

14 June 2006, Wednesday

We had a nice bath in the hot water spring in the Badrinath

Temple. Gopiji and Raghavji wanted to do some puja for their
ancestors. After the puja, we had darshan of the Lord. We
got some bhog prasad of the Lord. We had lunch at the Chatram.

We wanted to visit some mahatmas in the areas. Gopiji had a

list of such people. We could locate a great saint. His name
was Taatambari Baba. He wore only a jute gunny bag. He spoke
in a charming rustic Hindi. He called us "kapadevaalon".
Here is a gist of our conversation with him.
Hari Sharanam Maharaj: Babaji, we have come to see you by your
grace.
Babaji: You have come here by the effect of your prarabda. So
it is by the grace of your karma that you have come here. It
is really your grace.
HS: Babaji, give us a message.
B: If I tell you what I want to tell, you won't follow. What
is the use?
HS: It is ok. Please tell us what you want to tell. We will try.
B: Stay here.
HS: What do you mean?
B: What you seek in the world is a place to live, clothes to
wear and food to eat. I will give you all these at this place.
Just stay here and do nothing. Which of you is ready for this?
HS: How is that possible? What about our prarabda? Where we
stay and what we do is directed by the prarabda.
B: A jnani can do what he wishes. He does not have any karma.
All karma gets burnt away in the jnanaagni. A jnani is free.
HS: But we are not jnanis.
B: That is in your hands. You are just not willing to break
away. That is the problem.
Raghavji: But Babaji, we are grihastas. We have family, job
and other duties and responsibilities. Who will take care of
them?
B: See. Everyone's life goes according to their prarabda.
Just because you decide to stay here, their life will not
become anything different from what their prarabda is. Just
because you decide to stay with your family, their life will
not become anything different from what their prarabda is.
You really dont make any difference to anyone.
(Great silence prevails in the minds of the devotees.)
R: But Babaji, being in the midst of family and other
responsibilities, how should we lead our life?
B: Live like a sannyasi. Be unattached. Know that everyone's
life happens according to their prarabda and you really don't
make any difference to anyone's life.
(Silence again.)
B: Did you have darshan of Sri Badrinathji?
HS: Yes, Babaji.
B: Did you close your eyes and ask God anything?
HS: Yes, Babaji.
B: What did you ask?
HS: I asked for Bhakti.
B: Why should He give you Bhakti? Do you want Him or does
He wants you? Who are you to Him? Why should He give you
Bhakti because you asked for it?
HS: Then what should we ask, Babaji?
B: Why should you ask anything at all? Just go, have darshan,
feel happy and come back. Why should you ask something?
(Silence.)
HS: We will take leave Babaji.
(HS tries to take the rug being used to sit on by the devotees
and fold them away.)
B: Hey, no, no. You are a Sant. Why should you do that? I
will take care of it.
HS: No Babaji. You are a Sant. We are ordinary people.
B: No. You are a renunciate. You are a Sant.
(The other devotees take the rug from HS and complete the job.)

We were so enchanted and amused by the dialogue with Taatambari Baba

that we were recollecting and discussing his words again and again
throughout the rest of the pilgrimage. We were trying to imitate
his unimitable rustic Hindi and other mannerisms. Hari Sharanam
Maharaj decided to visit him again during another trip to Badrinath
when he had more time to spend with Babaji.

In the early evening, we visited the village of Mana in our van.

At Mana, we visited Ganesh Guha and Vyasa Guha. This was the
place where Mahabharata was written. The good natured priests in
both the caves explained tirelessly to the pilgrims the history
of these caves and made us feel edified and happy. There were a
lot of pilgrims visiting these places and everyone felt very
happy with these priests and donated happily and generously. Oh,
how different were these noble priests from those at the temples
we have visited before.

These caves are on the banks of river Sarasvati, which is said

to vanish into the ground shortly downstream and reappears at
Prayag (Allahabad). The river forces its way violently through
a narrow gorge and tumbles down a steep fall. It was a nice
scene to watch. There were some boys taking the risk of collecting
some water from the top of the fall for a few rupees. There is
a natural bridge called Bhim Ful (Bhima's bridge) over which
we had to cross to reach the Sarasvati temple. A short distance
further on the path is a small temple of Tripurasundari. We
paid a visit to the temple too.

All along the way, the villagers were selling woollen ware
made by themselves at their home.

On the way back, we met an old woman who was doing some farming
on a patch of land overlooked by a huge steep cliff. It was
an enchanting sight to see the puny little figure of the old
lady tottering before the majestic mountain. It was impossible
to say who was greater - Nature or Man. Nature and man seemed
to be made for each other, as long as they respected each other.
It reminded us of the verses in the Gita where Krishna tells
Arjuna - "You offer to the Devas in sacrifice and the Devas will
reward you in plenty. Thus you support each other and live
prosperously."

We came to know that the old lady had trekked to Swargarohan,

Gomukh, etc several times. We bowed down to her and she blessed
us with motherly affection. We wondered at the simplicity and
cordiality of these people.

We spent the night at the Chatram at Badrinath.

15 June 2006, Thursday

We left Badrinath early in the morning and reached the kutir of

Swami Swayambodhanandaji at the village of Jakhwadi in the
evening. The Swamiji is the guru of Gokulji. Swamiji has been
living in that Kutir for the past ten years. It is a very
calm and picturesque place with paddy fields on the mountain
slopes surrounded by higher mountains. There is an ancient
small Shiva temple besides a perennial spring of crystal
clear water flowing ceaselessly making a gentle murmuring
sound. This seems like the mountain's unceasing japa of
Shiva naama at this ancient temple. In the vicinity of this
temple is the small kutir of the Swamiji and another small
kutir that serves as the guest room. The place does not have
electricity. The villages nearby have electricity supply.
The Swamiji said that he did not want electricity and other
modern amenities to keep away casual visitors. Only sincere
sadhaks who are ready to bear a lot of hardship are welcome to
his small ashram, which is called "Sanathana Jnanashram".

Gokulji had told earlier that the Swamiji had told him once
that an ashram is not made of brick and mortar, but of
sincere sadhaks. We were all reminded of that statement and
seemed to understand the meaning of that sentence.

Swamiji asked us if we were planning to spend the night there.

We told him that we would like to, if it was not an
inconvenience to him. He replied that it was no inconvenience
to him, but it was we who should be ready to bear with the
inconvenience of the place if we want to stay. We were more
than willing to face any inconvenience to spend more time
with this great sadhu. We decided to spend the night at his
"ashram".

Gopiji asked the first question, "We went to the Chaar Dhaams
just now. We had to face a lot of physical hardship to have
darshan of the deities. To come here too, we had to face a
lot of hardship. This place is very deep in the mountains,
with bad road access, across several mountain streams, etc.
Why do you sadhus and other places of pilgrimage are always
located at almost inaccessible places?" Swamiji gave a very
detailed reply to this question. The jist of his reply was,
"I am a rejected person in the society. I came from a middle
class family. So the poor people, who form majority of the
population rejected me. At work, I was an honest person. So
I was always a suspect in the eyes of my peers and was rejected
by them. As I was an officer, I was rejected by the workers
too. I wanted to lead the life of a Brahmacharin. I was
rejected by my family and the society for that. I did not
find any place in the social circles of the people of my age
group. Even in the ashram of my Guru, I was a rejected person.
My aim in life is Jivan Mukti. I was not interested in any
power or position or name in the ashram. As most of the people
in the ashram are after these things, I was rejected there
too. I had to leave the ashram. In this world, anyone who
follows the path of Truth has to face this rejection at some
time or the other. So, it is not that we choose to stay in
inaccessible places. It is the world that rejects people like
me and these are the places where we land up in." Gopiji
said, "But Swamiji, we have come in search of people like you.
How can you say that you are a rejected person?" Swamji said,
"Tell me what percentage of the society wants a person like
me?"

Raghavji asked, "We are Grihastas. We have a family, job

and other duties and responsibilities. In the midst of all
these and along with all these, how can we strive for God?
What is the way for us?" Swamiji replied, "God is the goal.
Your wife, children, job, bank balance, and all other things
are good only as long as they are not obstacles to your
spiritual life. If you are serious about spiritual life,
you should not hesitate to forsake anything that is an
obstacle between you and for God. Prahalada forsook his father.
Vibhishana forsook his brother. Bharata forsook his mother.
Mahabali forsook his guru. The goal is God. You will get
Him only if you are willing to drop anything that is an
obstacle. Keep this in mind and use your own intelligence
and make your life."

Swamiji talked to us about various things. During the

course of our conversation, he told us this. "Our mind
has various layers - like the conscious, sub-conscious,
unconscious, etc. The aims and thoughts in one layer
contradict with those in another layer. Sadhana is nothing
but bringing the contradictions in the various layers of
the mind to the conscious realm and making the choice
that leads us to God. The objective of all the various
yogas - Bhakti yoga, Jnana yoga, Karma yoga and Raja
yoga - are the same: to bring out the contradictions
in the mind into conscious vision. When you are conscious
of the contradiction, you have to make the right choice
and move forward. Keep doing this. It is not the job
of a single lifetime to remove all the contradictions.
It may take a few lifetimes. But this is the spiritual
path. You have to do this. There is no other way. You
have to face it."

Swamiji talked about giving in charity. He said, "Even

from the common sense point of view, you should give
in charity to reduce the tension between the rich and
the poor. The big gap between the rich and the poor
creates jealousy. This leads to a lot of problems in
the society. To balance this, the rich have to give in
charity to the people whom he faces everyday. This has
to be done by the rich to save his own life. This is
simple common sense."

Swamiji made herbal tea for us in the early evening.

He made kichadi for the night. He gave each one of us
a small part of the task of preparing kichadi. Some
of us washed the vessels. Some of us fetched water.
Some of us cut vegetables. It was fun. Then Swamiji
led us to sing some bhajans. He played on the harmonium.
We all clapped our hands to keep the beat and sang
with him. He sang the song "hey roma roma mein vasane
vaale Ram". We were all thrilled by the deep meaning
of the song.

Gopiji and Gokulji slept in Swamiji's room. The others

slept in the guest room. The toilet in the guest room
had more facilities than the one in Swamiji's room. For
example, the toilet in the guest room had a door which
can be locked. We had a nice sleep in the night.

16 June 2006, Friday

In the morning, Swamiji gave a leaf of a plant to chew.

He said that chewing that leaf had a better cleaning
effect than the modern toothpaste and toothbrush. We
had some herbal tea in the morning and left. Many of
the devotees donated jackets, shawls, biscuits and
dry fruits to Swamiji, which he promptly distributed
then and there among the villagers. He was truly a
great example of renunciation. He seemed to know
each person in the village intimately and knew who needs
what.
We reached Kailash Ashram in Rishikesh in the evening.
Anjaiah and Radhakrishna wanted to go to Delhi soon
and decided to carry on.

We went to Paramartha Niketan and saw the Ganga Arati

in the evening. It was a great show. There was great
pomp and grandness. The puja was not impressive, but
the music was good. We left the place after the main
arati. We went to visit some old sadhus living in
Rishikesh. Gopiji knew them personally. We could meet
two of them.

We came back to Kailash Ashram in the night.

17 June 2006, Saturday

We went to Vashishta Guha. It is about 20km from

Rishikesh on the way to Badrinath. The cave is supposed
to have been used by several great sages to do tapasya.
It is believed that many sages are doing tapasya there
in their astral bodies. Recently Swami Purushottamanandaji,
a disciple of Swami Brahmanandaji (Rakhal Maharaj), the
spiritual son of Sri Ramakrishna lived there for several
years. After his mahasamadhi, his disciple
Swami Chaitanyanandaji Maharaj is managing the place.
He is an old sadhu with a soft nature. The cave has a
shivalinga. We worshipped the linga and sat in the
silent atmosphere of the cave for sometime.

We spent some time at the banks of the Ganga in the

ashram. Gokulji had a nice bath in the Ganga. We spent
some more time in the cave and then had prasad at the
ashram.

We reached Kailash ashram in the evening. We went to

Sivananda ashram. We took part in the evening bhajans
and arati. The Ganga Arati at Sivananda was a small
devoted one. It was a big contrast with the arati that we
attended the previous day. We enjoyed this arati much
more than the previous day's. We spent some quiet time
on the banks of the Ganges at this hallowed place, where
the great Swami Sivanandaji Maharaj lived.

We spent the night at Kailash Ashram.

18 June 2006, Sunday

Raghavji and Prasannaji left for Delhi early in the morning.

Gokulji had decided to go to Vrindavan with Hari Sharanam
Maharaj. Later they decided to stay back and visit
Swami Jnanananda Giri, who lived in Musoorie and Dehradun.
Gopiji knew the Swamiji personally. The old Swamiji was a
Swiss national, who has been living in India for more than
50 years. We visited him at his kutir in Musoorie. He was
more Indian in culture than most of us. We visited the
temple built by one of his disciples nearby. The Swami
was on his way to Dehradun. We decided to drop him at
his place in Dehradun. Thus we were able to spend some
time with him.

Gopiji and Gokulji started back to Delhi in the afternoon.

Hari Sharanam Maharaj joined his other friends in Rishikesh.