IITs and The Placebo Effect

04-11-2010 IITs and the Placebo effect
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IITs and the Placebo effect

On October 26, 2010, in Blog, Faith and belief, Serious, by Amiya (Edit Post)
Can you believe that?
A country of over a billion people; India – one of the fastest growing economy in the world with an extremely
large young population which is arguably the most valuable resource for the country’s future. Is it not
surprising that not even a single University ranks within the top 200 in the world! What is even more surprising
is that Indians are still at the forefront of every field – be it Industry and Finance at one end or corruption at
the other! What is it that makes us so special that we seemingly work in ways that will surprise even God (for
God our lives are like thriller movies directed by John Woo). Rather than analyzing everything I will consider
the declining rank and status of the IITs – the premier institutes for engineering studies in India.
The Times Higher Education Supplement or THES which publishes the most influential international ranking of
world’s top universities, ranked IITs at third position, after MIT and UC Berkley for the year 2005!! Third in
the world!!! If you do not believe me check the THES site for yourself. What happened since 2005 that an
institute that was thought to be worlds third best got kicked out of top 200. Many would attribute the
wonderful (negative) progress to our highly talented and very honorable Ministers of Human Resource
Development – Mr Kapil Sibal (2009-present) and Mr Arjun Singh(2004-2009). While Mr. Arjun Singh can
be considered the most worthless person on earth making the baseline so low that Mr. Sibal may appear a
gizillion times better! The reality is that both of them are no good – while Sibal may be making genuine effort
to improve the situation his Harvard degree is blinding him from that fact that India is not US. You cannot just
bring the system that works in US and implement it in India hoping that it will have the same impact. While
these ministers could not help but finger with the already working and well established IITs the progressive
decline of these institutes can be pinned on to two critical points -
aptnk.in/2010/10/…/comment-page-1/ 1/11
1. Reserving a disproportionately large (50% to be specific) percentage for students from backward
categories.
2. opening up dozen more IITs in quick succession.
While many would agree that these are the prime reasons why the rankings dwindled, it would be too naive to
settle there. Just opening up of new institutes and reservation of seats should not be a reason for dilution of
standards. For a country of over a billion without doubt the IITs are too small, even after considering the new
ones. If you look at any other university outside India the student intake will be easily around forty to fifty
thousand which is many times over what one IIT will be housing! So why should we think that increasing the
intake will hamper our standards?
The answer lies in small sugar tablets. Yes it is the Placebo effect. A sugar tablet given by the physician with a
strong superstition that it is infact a potent drug and taken by the patient with an equal compliance can
actually work better than the actual drug. The effect of the Placebo is real and measurable although the
placebo is nothing more than a piece of inert material completely bootless. The paneroma of treatment since
antiquity provides ample support for the conviction that, until recently, the history of medical treatment is
essentially the history of placebo effect[1]. IITs are the sugar pills that was given to us with the belief that they
were world class and we were the patients that took it with confidence. The ONLY reason IITs have the
name and reputation is JEE – an exam considered to be the toughest in the world, a selection procedure so
stringent that less than 1% can survive it. And those who survive that are convinced that they are the best and
they are at the best place. It is the belief of the selected few that IITs enjoy the status – when it comes to real
parameters like infrastructure, research facilities, research output that measures how good an University is
IITs cannot even be compared with the worst European Univ. That actually explains the ranking by THES as
well. For the year 2004-05 the ranking was based on peer appraisal rather than true parameters. The
top echelon of every field is headed by Indians (may be including THES itself) – it is not shocking that IITs
ended up third. As THES moved to real indicators of how good an University is IITs started losing their grip.
The reason why the standards cannot be maintained if the number of IITs are increased or reserved for a
specific group is because everything depends on selecting a very small number of highly motivated people and
placing them together in a physically demarcated boundary AKA the IITs.
In the modern era the IITs are not created to cater to engineering needs of India rather they are created to
develop a small army that will drain the developed world off its riches to bring prosperity to India. I certainly
do not say that the number of talented people is in any way limited but the field of high end research and
world class higher education is very costly; something a developing country cannot justify spending on. Rather
it should leave the way IITs were a few years back and concentrate of further developing more NITs and
deemed Universities and provide quality education. The country certainly needs a large pool of good
universities; while they can provide a bulk of highly talented people the IITs can provide the brand image
and marketing. I conclude by saying that we must let the placebo effect continue until we are capable enough
to develop our own drugs.
PS: Do share your view in the comments section and share this post.
[1]. Book – The placebo effect: an interdisciplinary exploration By Anne Harrington
The Parliament is supreme – So if the parliament says Arjun Singh is a do***bag he will agree.
Edit Post | If you enjoyed this article, please consider sharing it! 27 Comments; Leave a response
Tagged with: IITs • Placebo effect • reservation • Serious
27 Responses to “IITs and the Placebo effect”
1. Kartik Prabhu says:

October 26, 2010 at 12:17 pm (Edit)
Correct me if I am wrong… you mean to say that IITs are not really that good (as compared to other
world-class universities), but its only the hype (Placebo effect) that has kept them going on so far?
Reply
2. Amiya says:
Not exactly – What IITs have is their students – who themselves are the biggest assets – In terms of
infrastructure, research output IITs are not world class – So if you take the students in IITs and keep
them in almost any University they will perform equally well. So anything that even slightly affects the
intake of students will have a large consequence on the standards. What I’m saying is if you take the
students out of the equation – IITs have nothing credit worthy.
A really good Univ is not meant to behave like that – A good Univ is one that provides ample
opportunity to expand and progress without relying too heavily on the students being extraordinary.
Reply
3. Bibek says:
the answer is not so simple,what make other univ better is the phds coming out of them and no of
publications and citations these publications get along with industry collaboration.Consider stanford
which has tie-ups with google or microsoft along with the quality of phds coming out of their univ many
of who are indians from iits. If iitians leave for the foreign univs how will the ranking go higher. Thats
why you dont see korean univs higher up the ranking,all the brilliant korean or israelis are in US
enjoying the dollars.Dont mind these comments are not personal.
Reply
4. Kartik Prabhu says:

@ Amiya: agreed 100%
@ Bibek: Why should any prospective PhD not go to the US if he gets a better research environment
and better facilities? If you think people do PhD in the US for the money then your are greatly
mistaken. If all they want is money they would not do a PhD, but get an MNC job.
Reply
Bibek says:
October 30, 2010 at 9:21 am (Edit)
Precisely thats the point why they cant do a phd here if they think they are the best in the
country,almost everybody wants to do higher studies outside India,50-60% say money,the rest
say facilities and infrastructure for diplomatic reasons.Ofcourse they have better labs and
wonderful facilities but the real topic here is why is IIT declining,not why iitians shud stay in
india?i am saying if they stay only then can the raise the standards of iits.
Reply
Amiya says:
I can’t understand where is the point? So you say if you’r the best you should knowingly
select a shit hole to do your PhD? 50-60% say Money? How many have you asked 2
people? Those doing MS may be doing it for money but PhD – no way. You thing a guy
will spend 5 years on study at a low scholarship if money was his motivation? That is like
dating Rakhi Sawant because marrying was your intention….
Reply
Bibek says:
the thing is most of the indians or iitians always want to do it the foreign way
i mean if it were not for their prestige issue then what else is it?if
someone says he is doing his phd in stanford,what do ppl ask?u must
be enjoying a lot,loads of money,nice american chics.But if u r doing from
iit they say why u didnt get a job or do u want to go to academic line as if u
are a loser or something.Even when friends chat all they talk abt is girl or
money and very little about research,obviously if a guy is doing phd
at iit he has nothing to talk abt but research.So what is the motivation when
u r studying abroad money,love and research , but in India its only research.
So a guy doing phd in India have to spend his research yrs in isolation,only
if doing a phd in iits would be considered great why would not iitians do
their phd at their alma mater…Its just the case how football and cricket
are treated in India…
@Amiya compared to iits foreign univs pay more.that was my point,i know
abt u doing a phd out of sheer interest and passion,but what about the rest
,u will find that many phds from iit go and stay and settle in USA…If it is
not money is it cooler climate?
Reply
5. Vinayak Pathak says:

In fact, I would like to go one step ahead and say that even the student quality is horrible. True, there
are some students who really are full of passion for something, they want to bring some kind of change
in the world etc etc. But most of them are losers who just want to spend their lives sleeping, watching
movies and getting high with friends. The reason why IITians are at the frontier of so many things in the
world is because these are the IITians who graduated twenty years ago. At that time, IIT’s were not a
money making machine, and so only those people used to get through the JEE who were genuinely
interested in the subjects they were studying. A very large fraction of people getting through the JEE
now consists of people whose only motivation is to get the IIT stamp on their CV’s so that they can get
a well paying job. I don’t think that IITians will continue to be at the frontiers of things 20 years from
now.
Reply
Amiya says:
Hmm…Vinayak…I’m feeling a little uncomfortable saying this but the loser you described here
in somewhat fits me (in terms of sleeping and watching movies)
@Prabhu Agree, if making money is your target then going for PhD is the worst decision.
Reply
Kartik Prabhu says:

saying @ Prabhu links to some other guy on Twitter that is not me…
Reply
Amiya says:
LOL Damn this auto parser….
Reply
6. Karkare says:
@Vinayak – Dude, the IITians who graduated 20 years ago were also ‘losers’ when they were in IIT.
I know (personally) plenty who were supposedly ‘losers’ in IIT but today are at some top notch
position.
@Amiya – Totally agree
Reply
Amiya says:
@ Karkare thanks for the encouraging words I can do it…
Reply
7. Chitresh says:
I partially agree with Vinayak. I agree that by the time students graduate from IITs, most of them
(easily > 50%) are not at all concerned to do anything good. The only thing they want is a good/decent
paying job. But this is also fact that not all of them were like that few years back, when they got into
IITs. IIT, as a university, failed to provide proper facilities and opportunities which just killed all the
tempo. I am not sure about all the departments of all the IITs, but with my own personal experience, I
can say without any doubt that IIT faculty is really really horrible. In my opinion good faculty can
compensate the poor infrastructure to some extend. What I expect from a good university is that it can
motivate and direct even less motivated students, providing facilities, infrastructure etc. IITs scores less
than 0 on this ground. It expects its students to to do all the good work, while the faculty and
administration is busy with chilling-out and scamps.
I also agree that there has been some change in the mind set of students. There is no doubt that most of
the students coming through JEE are smart. But only a small percentage of them come to IIT to pursue
science and engineering out of their own interest. Most of them get into IITs without even knowing
what engineering is all about. They just follow the ‘hype’ among fellow students or even worst: fulfill the
dream of their parents. I would also condemn the whole Indian education system, which is just about
scoring good marks in exams and not at all about the actual knowledge.
Reply
Amiya says:
Well said Chitresh. I think faculty is an avenue which is easier to handle and can have large
effect on the standards. Although the way professors are paid in India is too problematic. If you
pay peanuts you will only hire monkeys. Professors much like doctors are highly talented people
and one should not expect them to get stuck with a low paying job for the society’s welfare.
I say the government should pay professors better than what they are paid in the states (in terms
of PPP). Now that could be tricky as it would mean discriminating profs from IITs from other
univs.
Reply
Chitresh says:
IIT faculties already have different pay structure than other universities. I do not know the
exact hierarchy, but it would be easy to find. In any case I am sure its different.
Remember, once there was a strike of IIT faculties and the agenda of the strike was that
IIT faculties were getting smaller perks and/or salary than faculties in other universities.
Reply
Bibek says:
@chitresh if you think the faculty is so bad,why dont u become one

and prove it wrong,most of the profs like (pregnent of elec,am) dont even
know how to speak because they graduated from jadavpur univ or some
stupid college,more so due to lack of iitians going into academics bcos
they love either foreign univ or mncs these losers came into iit to destroy it.
Look what they have made it,u think twice b4 coming into their class.
Reply
Amiya says:
Behera is taking Ganga these days…
Chitresh says:
Bibek, Let me state and re-state few things.
1) PhD is NOT at all about money. Reason is not that they pay less (they
give you just enough money to get a “below average” life. My stipend is half
the median salary of USA & I am quite sure that its among the best PhD
stipends you can get in US) But at the same time they screw you like
anything. If you are not interested in the topic you would prefer to have half
the salary with normal job life.
2) People do go to IITs for PhD, if the concerned field has reputed faculty,
like micro-fluid dynamics at IIT-kgp. Other go to abroad just to get better
faculty and better research position.
3) India also does not have any good politicians. This does not make me
responsible to become a good politician. If I am able to complete PhD &
like teaching after that with all other factors are in place, then I might end up
being faculty at some IIT.
4) No Indian gets even a single American ‘Chick’, forget about ‘chicks’.

For that matter they also do not get any Korean / Chinese / Mongolian /
African or even Indian Chick. Dont worry, you are not losing anything.
8. Bibek says:
@Amiya remember i dont require ganga to be high
Reply
9. Tushar says:
The issue was why IITs are slipping in rankings. Well, they never were up, as far as I know. If they
were up ever, it must have been because of the methodology of the rankings, or some goof-up (as
already shown). As far as not making to the top notch is concerned, forget about it. Any Indian
university will not be able to make it ever. The reason is simple. The number of people. You have
limited resources, with which to feed the billions and make prosperous a few thousands out of those
billions (like the IITians/IIMains, etc). There has to be struck a balance. No matter what you do, you
cannot decrease the population, and no matter what you do you cannot increase the resources in the
proportion that would assure you the level of prosperity, of which high quality education is an indicator.
You would have heard that UK govn. has decreased it research grants to a third of that given last year.
It’s never gonna happen, unless we find a God who is not Google.
Reply
Amiya says:
Yes I heard about the new policy of UK govt. I agree we cannot be on top in the true sense (at
least for next 20 years or so) but we sure can continue producing top notch students who will be
on top of these top univs/companies…So that indirectly we will gain more than what a top univ
can.
Reply
bibek says:
November 1, 2010 at 9:04 am (Edit)
tushar very negative attitude,if you are not going to stay in India in academics how can u
talk abt it not going ahead,i think we are constantly progressing,compare to the
infrastructure that we had 10 yrs ago,we will continue to do so,who knows by the time ur
child comes to iit the ranks me be a order higher
Reply
Tushar says:
November 2, 2010 at 6:41 pm (Edit)
I am not leaving India

And it is not about the attitude, I just said what’s true. You cannot do that. It’s a
statistical impossibility.
Reply
Tushar says:
November 2, 2010 at 6:45 pm (Edit)
And if we want to improve the situation to some level (best is not possible,
sadly), the only possibility is that somehow we get word-class professors (I
don’t know how), we increase the research grant to the
IITs/IIMs/IISCs/AIIMS etc. etc. by a disproportionate amount, another
highly unlikely situation and we decrease the intake of the students (close to
impossibility). Any one of these would help improve the condition, but not
above what was there a decade or two ago.
10. KishoreKumar says:

I absolutely agree with Amiya & also with Vinayak Pathak “there are some students who really are full
of passion for something, they want to bring some kind of change in the world etc etc. But most of
them are losers who just want to spend their lives sleeping, watching movies and getting high with
friends.” Couldn’t agree more on this but the reason behind this is those damn professors and their
#$!@%# teaching. When these so called “loser” students entered IIT they were not losers. They were
successful persons who were & still are capable of doing amazing things. They entered into IIT with lot
of hopes and great expectations. Its these professors and the kind of education system that ruined their
hopes. In fact if you see most of these losers are good in their first/second semesters.
Problem is teachers don’t have the same passion that students have when they entered IIT. They got
some best class 12 students in the country, it is purely responsibility of the teacher to cultivate interest
among the students. Frankly, just think about how many teachings have made you think about the
subject? How many teachings have made you attend the classes because you found them interesting?
One example that can be pointed out here is lectures of Prof.Pawan Kumar. I heard about him from
my 2nd year but took his class in 5th year. I’m really surprised to see that students were attending his
class even if he was not taking any attendance.
I did three courses on operating systems (CAOS, OS, Adv. OS). In all three courses I went to
professors and asked if will I be in a position to write a new tiny operating system by the end of the
course. They said “no, its very complex”. I said “OK. I’ll take up that complex task will you guide me
through this”. Their response was not again motivating. What kind of courses are those even after
completion if I won’t be able to understand what’s happening in the operating system I’m using. In my
3rd year I designed 14 experiments for Computer Networks course thats going to be started. I
carefully designed these experiments by discussing it with real world Network Administrators and
Network security experiments. Even my professor was very impressed with the work. But what’s the
use? I did that course after 2 years, they were never included my experiments in to that course. I know
many of my friends who did these courses got Ex & A grades but don’t know how and whats of the
networks they are using. I can go on and on. My point is courses are far away from the real world.
They are not interesting. All the courses take bottom up approach. They never take a top down
approach. They do not motivate a student. Under these circumstances how can one expect a class 12
student to get motivated by himself and be successful? How can one expect good research when there
is no relation (continuation) between projects done by a senior and junior?
Like Karkare said (above) “IITians who graduated 20 years ago were also ‘losers’ when they were in
IIT.” Because the system has been like this from then and it is after getting out of IIT (or in
final/superfinal year) with matured minds these so called ‘losers’ become successful persons by making
“real” things in this “real” world. What find most funny is that they take feedbacks from passing out
students but they never really “feed it” to the system to improve its output.
IITs could have been in top ten institutes if these students (Human Resources) were properly used.
Reply
Amiya says:
@ Kishore you summed it up well man.
Just go to MIT open course ware or Stanford Center for Professional Development My god the
courses are beyond imagination. The way the professors teach is mind blowing; if students at IIT
get such teaching God knows what will happen!!
And at the end of it students submit a project implementing what they learned – take a look at
them each project is worth publications. I hope something is done about it in the near future.
Reply
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04-11-2010 IITs and the Placebo effect

IITs and the Placebo effect

Can you believe that?

[1]. Book – The placebo effect: an interdisciplinary exploration By Anne Harrington

Tagged with: IITs • Placebo effect • reservation • Serious

27 Responses to “IITs and the Placebo effect”

1. Kartik Prabhu says:

4. Kartik Prabhu says:

@ Amiya: agreed 100%

5. Vinayak Pathak says:

Kartik Prabhu says:

LOL Damn this auto parser….

@Amiya – Totally agree

@ Karkare thanks for the encouraging words I can do it…

@chitresh if you think the faculty is so bad,why dont u become one

Behera is taking Ganga these days…

Bibek, Let me state and re-state few things.

4) No Indian gets even a single American ‘Chick’, forget about ‘chicks’.

@Amiya remember i dont require ganga to be high

I am not leaving India

10. KishoreKumar says:

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