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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 01:45 AM
Hiroshima: Before and After
[ Post 292989028 ]
Category: News & Opinion (General) Topic: History & Archaeology Synopsis: Source: http://www.temple.edu/history/hiroshima.html Published: January 1, 2001 Author: http://www.temple.edu/history/hiroshima.html For Education and Discussion Only. Not for Commercial Use.
This is Hiroshima before the atom bomb:
..and after the bomb exploded:
I found this information after a "aerial views of hiroshima" query on Google so I don't know who is the author of the page where this was posted.
cactus writes: "What is wrong with these before and after pictures of Hiroshima?"
Edited by cactus on 10/01/04 02:30 AM.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 02:10 AM
Re: Hiroshima: Before and After
[ To: cactus | Post 292989031, reply to 292989028 ] (Score: 1)
FURTHER REFERENCE
How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
Edited by Jack_Barbara on 10/01/04 11:01 PM.
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Fred25
(revolutionary) 10/01/04 07:25 AM
Excerpt from Einsteins letter to Roosevelt, Aug. 2, 1939: This new phenomenon would also lead to the production of bombs, and it is conceivable though much less certain extremely powerful bombs of a new type may thus be constructed. A single bomb of this type, carried by boat and exploded in a port, might very well destroy the whole port together with some of the territory. SOURCE
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 03:46 PM

Informative)
[ To: Fred25 | Post 292990871, reply to 292989411 ] (Score: 2,
Thanks for the information Fred25. That Einstein fellow is pretty awesome eh?
Convincing presidents of the viability of atomic weapons with letters that he SCALED DOWN from the original. Must be nice to have all that fame. Media has a lot to do with making or breaking fame. Einstein and Rife Sr. were both tribally designed to condition the mark before the scam. A scam so serious, they would have incited a second Pearl Harbor-type massacre to get the ball rolling. That is, if the Ameican public failed to get the message after the first attack. Two Pearl Harbors in a row if necessary. They could not afford to fail. Zillions of dollars and the fear boogey man...think about it. I have put some comments on the letter found at the link you provided Fred25. I welcome your comments and ideas on this subject. Please be advised that Jews are NOT a restricted subject in the thread. They are part of the story, probably the engineers behind this hoax, so expect to see them spread right across this expose. Einstein to Roosevelt, August 2, 1939
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In the summer of 1939, six months after the discovery of uranium fission, American newspapers and magazines openly discussed the prospect of atomic energy. However, most American physicists doubted that atomic energy or atomic bombs were realistic possibilities. No official U.S. atomic energy project existed. Ah, how refreshing to read about realistic scientists that understand the physical constraints of putting the math into practice.
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Leo Szilard was profoundly disturbed by the lack of American action. Leo Szilard was profoundly disturbed by the physical contraints of putting the math into practice, like all other serious scientists at the time and since.
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If atomic bombs were possible, as he believed they were, Nazi Germany might gain an unbeatable lead in developing them. I guess no one told him that Hitler would rather not have them (the bombs). But then again, Hitler was not calling the shots.
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It was especially troubling that Germany had stopped the sale of uranium ore from occupied Czechoslovakia. Why is THAT troubling?
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Unable to find official support, and unable to convince Enrico Fermi of the need to continue experiments, Szilard turned to his old friend Albert Einstein. Why did he not turn to his old friend Einstein in the first place?
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Einstein was enjoying a sailing vacation in Peconic on the northern tip of Long Island, New York. On or about July 12, Szilard and fellow Hungarian physicist Eugene Wigner made the short drive from Manhattan in Wigner's car. Einstein, true to his simple tastes, greeted his visitors wearing an undershirt and rumpled, rolled-up pants. He showed them to his cabin's large, screened-in porch. Nice Jewish get together.
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Szilard explained the state of international research on uranium and the evidence that a bomb might be possible.
He failed to explain why all his distinguished collegues in the scientific fields thought it improbable.
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Given the seriousness of the situation, Szilard's request was quite modest. Given there was no SITUATION to speak of, the request was quite absurd.
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He asked if Einstein would warn the Belgian Queen Mother, whom he knew, to prevent the large stockpile of uranium ore in the Belgian Congo from falling into Nazi hands. No matter who's hands the ore fell into it did not matter. Why is this fellow not preoccupied that the MATH proving it can be done NOT fall into NAZIS hands? Remember that we are talking about something that was nowhere near field testing at that time. I would say that Szilard was giving a new dimension to the notion of wishful thinking.
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Einstein agreed to the idea, but he preferred to write to another friend, the Belgian ambassador. Einstein dictated a letter in German, which Wigner took down. Lots of friendly people. Hard to conspire with total strangers. Note how all the players are tightly connected.
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Within days, however, the plan became much more far-reaching when Szilard discussed the matter with economist Alexander Sachs. Sachs, who was an unofficial adviser to President Franklin Roosevelt, urged that Einstein should write directly to the President. If Einstein wrote such a letter, Sachs promised to deliver it to the President personally. With a hoax of this magnitude one is not surprised to note the direct involvement of economists that are friendly with presidents.
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If they could gain the ear of the President, the Belgian uranium ore became a minor issue. In other words, if the United States could help them pull off the hoax they would no longer need the stupid Belgian ore story to get the president's attention. Filthy manipulators with profit in mind and no remorse about killing to get what they want..
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Szilard produced a four-page draft letter, which he mailed to Einstein on July 19. By telephone, Einstein asked to discuss it with Szilard in person. Einstein probably wanted to know how to convince the president that the thing actually works. I wonder why they all express themselves as if everone will believe them on their word that these dumbass rackets of extortion really will work? Where does everyone get the faith and trust that these con artists are not just attempting to fleece the American public of zillions of dollars? Those presidents were truly stupid to let these con men sting them like that. Unless they are in it too, which I doubt. It's easier if the mark is unaware of the scam, looks more natural that way. Still, little is said about the so-called compelling arguments that would make a president, a nation, believe that the skunks were on to anything else but profit, LOL.
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In the last days of July, Szilard returned to Einstein's vacation cabin. Because Wigner was out of town, Hungarian physicist Edward Teller acted as Szilard's chauffeur. Einstein again greeted his guests informally, wearing old clothes and slippers. He served them tea on the shady porch while they discussed the new approach.
Sounds pretty cozy. These guys really lived high-off-the-hog.

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Einstein was willing to write to the President. Dear Mr. President, us Jews have a big bomb in the works and we need zillions of dollars to start building them. Trust us it will work, LOL.
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As a life-long pacifist, he opposed the making of weapons, but he could not allow the Nazis sole possession of such destructive power. Yeah right, give it to the genocidal skunks that wiped the American Indian off the map with the greatest prejudice instead. Real smart Weizenheimer. Back to the blackboard for you Mr. Trustmeimajew.
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His only objection was that Szilard's letter was long and somewhat awkward. I'm sure Rudolf Hess said the very same thing about Hitler's Mein Kampf before he passed it through the lebensraum filters.
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He preferred a shorter message stressing the main points. Einstein dictated a short draft in German which Szilard took down. You would think that a man would want to ADD to a letter trying to convince a president of a nation of the viability of the so-called a bomb. The more I hear about the great reverence given to every word spouting from Einstein's mouth or pouring from his pen I get the feeling he was groomed to be the man to deliver this hoax to a future president for approval. A lot of what Einstein has said and done has been revised when not entirely debunked. Take Royal Raymond Rife for instance, the Jews made him appear like a genius in the field of optics and long after his death you find his son Rife Jr. designing the so-called special camera lenses for the photograph equipment that would record the historical bomb blasts and tests. Why would people think Rife Jr. was any good at this type of work if it were not for the celebrity created to make his father appear brilliant? Rife Jr. was used as a cover for the PHOTOSHOP-TYPE effects that would be necessary to promulgate the hoax. Einstein was preconditioned this way too I suspect.
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Over the next few days, Szilard translated Einstein's dictation, going through draft after draft. In the end, he prepared both a short and a long version. One for public consumption, one for the president.
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On August 2, he mailed them to Einstein. Einstein returned both versions signed, but he expressed a preference for the longer version. This was the version, dated August 2, that Szilard gave to Sachs for delivery to the President. The physicist gives the plans for a revolutionary new TOP-SECRET super weapon to an economist to give to the president. No kidding!
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Einstein's letter did not reach the President quickly, however, nor did it have much effect. It had to be cleared by Hollywood first.
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On September 1, 1939, Germany invaded Poland and World War II began. Sachs finally met with the President on October 11 and presented Einstein's letter. The President appointed a "Uranium Committee," but it approved only $6,000 to buy graphite and uranium for experiments Szilard proposed.
The president is creating a "Uranium Committee" without having seen the slightest evidence that this new bomb is anything more than wishful thinking. Here is a letter said to contain information detailing the atom bomb so clearly that a president can understand that it works yet the letter floats around casually, no one worrying that Hitler might have a spy intercept the information and be sufficiently satisfied by the contents of the letter to initiate his own project with this revolutionary device. The whole story wreaks of skunk.
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For the next two years, official skepticism continued to stall U.S. research efforts. A large-scale U.S. atomic project did not begin until December 6, 1941, one day before the bombing of Pearl Harbor. It became the "Manhattan" Project in August 1942. That is what Pearl Harbor was in essence, a vehicle to get the hoax in motion and hide the scam behind the usual smokescreen of genocide masquerading as war. The A Bomb is a hoax folks.
Edited by cactus on 10/03/04 03:04 PM.
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Splitends
(insurgent) 10/01/04 04:09 PM
Cactus, is it your contention there was no atom bombing of Hiroshima, or Nagasaki, and that it was all an elaborate hoax?
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 04:11 PM
Here is a model of the general disposition of the blast area. Observe the water access (if someone wanted to import thousands of tons of TNT quietly) and the structures standing. The second model shows you a representation (I hope they were doing this to exact scale-down) of the damage after the blast. Compare the epicentre of the blast as shown with a red flag in the second model with the blast effects as depicted in the first black and white after photo at the top of this thread. The center is way off and it would be interesting to understand why each model seems to make a point of not showing the structures BEHIND the blast. Take the circle of smoke on the black and white photo on top and transpose it where the blast flag is located on the after model in this set and ask yourself where 40% of the destruction went and why are the blast depicted with such contradiction from one official model to the next? Any ideas? Here are the models: BEFORE
AFTER
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Splitends
(insurgent) 10/01/04 04:26 PM
Using the map scale, the second photo (after), indicates a blast diameter of approx. 3 miles. Interesting.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 04:29 PM

Quote:
[ To: Splitends | Post 292990919, reply to 292990889 ] (Score: 1)
Cactus, is it your contention there was no atom bombing of Hiroshima, or Nagasaki, and that it was all an elaborate hoax? Yes, I base this belief on the fact that proving the existance of the bomb is very problematic. Impossible, I'm not sure. At the time when the United States was insisting on USING the atom bomb to convince the Japanese to surrender, General Curtiss E. LeMay bluntly asserted that a demonstration with witnesses would have been sufficient
to convince the Japanese. This is not to say that the General understood the problematic nature of proving this thing, but that some circles may have been entertaining the notions that it could be proven for witnesses. Don't hold your breath for a public demonstration, lol. So, this element of difficulty in establishing authenticity is a Godsend for any hoaxsters. Hard to prove, hard to disprove, get it? Now the other pillar upon which I rest my belief of a hoax is the amazing number of contradictions and circumstantial evidence. PLEASE NOTE that in view of the problematic nature of verifying authenticity, circumstantial evidence becomes critical to BOTH sides of this issue. Those trying to make the public believe can no more use the bomb to prove it that those trying to disprove it. Do you see what I mean. Also, we are currently dealing with another such massive hoax, namely the holocaust of so many non-millions in the NAZIS camps. The evidence that drives one along this strange road of a bomb revisionism is that it ogten intersects with the other hoaxes. Take for example Hitler. If Hitler did not have discretionary power and this power was in the hands of Jews then the pact with Japan, the a bomb and firbombing of Tokyo, the withdrawing of Japanese troops from the Russian front to free up the troops on the Russian side to amplify the carnage. Recall that many were confused that Hitler did not secure Moscow while the Russian troops were off defending the Russian side of the Japanese front. Too many coincidences and contradictions always tuned to optimize the genocide of the unsuspective Gentiles. Also recall that this Allied genocide masquerading as liberation firebombed Desden in February of 1945, firebombed Tokyo in March (100,000) 1945 and wrapped things up with the massive FIREBOMBING masquerading as atomic bomb of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Did you know that Nagasaki was one of the biggest Catholic stronghold in Japan at the time? How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 04:50 PM

Quote:
Cactus, is it your contention there was no atom bombing of Hiroshima, or Nagasaki, and that it was all an elaborate hoax? Keep an eye on the epicenter of the blast and the radius of damage. Both those models are missing about 40% of the overall blast area. Take another look at the devastation photos, the original black and white I mean, look at the roads. Do you see what I mean, THEY ARE ALL HIGHLY VISIBLE, how is this possible when debris has been catapulted all over the place? The roads should have been covered in debris. The hoaxsters became negligent and thought they would control the flow of information forever. Look at the photos depicting the blast. You see a nice column of smoke rising into the sky with a pretty musroom photoshop on top. How do you get such a cloud from an airburst 2000 (1850 to be precise) feet above the ground? Where is the big crater, so characteristic of the hype used to open the cah funnel, in the center of Hiroshima. According to the models you would think they were burning autumn grass or something. I am not prepared to say that the hoax was fabricated entirely, I think those poor people really got the rabbinical lessons GOOD. And I will bet it smarted too. Funny how most of the burn victims photos I have seen never have burnt hair. I someone has a picture something like that award winning picture of that small girl running from US napalm carrying her brother or sister in her arms. You could tell THAT was real because the hair was burned in a way one might think is consistent with intense heat. The Hiroshima survivors have such an astonishing array of burn marks and burn patterns that one could be forgiven for wondering what it was that exploded there. Did the rig the city like a synchronized demolition with conventional fuel bombs spread throughout the buildings. I invite the curious to examine the buildings in the BEFORE model and see what size buildings would have been suitable storage places to set the charges of such large amounts of fuel explosive.
Also note with regards to the mushroom cloud. Most people were blinded and in shock. Most survivors would agree with whatever the skunk had photoshopped to portray the configuration of the blast and agreed with it. Making people believe the bomb was real was most important, the skunks thought that the world would never believe a test shot with experts. The first choice for the use of the atomic bomb was determined to be Kyoto by the Target Committee. It was believed that the highly literate and intellectual residents there would convey the sophisticated terror and people would believe them MORE, It is my contention that they DID NOT BOMB Kyoto for THAT very REASON. They feared the intellectuals would be believed if they detected clues that it was a hoax. People (did not need to be too smart to display terror) were ritually sacrificed by fire as described in the definition of the word holocaust. The Allies were great at killing holocaust-style, especially if there are zillions of dollars at stake..think about it. How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 05:03 PM
Note the buildings I have circled in red, find them on the AFTER model and try, as I have, to picture the type of weapon that could inflict uneven damage this way. The blast wave, as depicted with the epicenter flag, is inconsistent with what one would expect in a linear devolpment of patterns of force in a nuclear bomb. Look at the building closest to the river's edge and ask why it still stands as similarly strong buildings in the back of it (therefore, further from the blast, are obliterated.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 05:12 PM
Why is this bridge still standing after the blast?
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 05:22 PM
Same distance from epicenter of blast but damage is inconsistant.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 05:38 PM
Although clearly defined as having been part of the damage circumference of the aerial reconaissance pictures, very little attention is given to this area in the official maquette I posted above and I can't seem to make out what those huge rectangles represent in that red area I emphasized on the photo. Records show that 40,000 soldiers were posted in Hiroshima at the time. Could this have been the area they occupied? What are those structures?
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wacsog10
(radical) 10/01/04 06:23 PM
Some thoughts; 1) The bomb detonated 1800 ft above the surface, that would minimize any cratering. 2) An explosive force moves away from the center, and the bridge's axis is directly away from the center of the blast. Hence the modern and obviously heavily constructed bridge absorbed the force of the explosion along it' strenghts. a.) from above, since bridges are made to carry extreme weights. b) along it's axis which exposed it to the minimum force. 3) The damage to the other large buildings could simply be a matter of their design, construction material etc. 4) If a giant ship filled with TNT would have exploded I will guarantee you there would be a gigantic crater, plus I think that the Japanese Navy might have noticed something was not quite right. 5) Air bursts are many times more efficient at leveling large areas than are ground bursts.
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thomaspain
(rebel) 10/01/04 06:49 PM
Did someone mention World War 2? What World War 2?

Post Extras:
Aurelius
(revolutionary) 10/01/04 06:54 PM
How do you explain all of the horrendous effects of radiation that are well documented and bedeviled survivors for years after the bombings? Is that all a hoax?
The state is the problem, anarchy is the solution.

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OWK
(Son of Liberty) 10/01/04 07:07 PM
A nuclear air burst (which Hiroshima was) provides more downforce closer to the epicenter, and more lateral force radiating away to the point of dissipation. As such, substantial structures near the absolute epicenter, are less likely to be destroyed than are structures slightly away from the center. because the force is mostly downward, as opposed to sideward.
Of course if the structure is less substantial, it would likely be destroyed regardless of whether the majority of force is downward OR sideward. No June, I do NOT think I'm being too hard on the beaver."
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OWK
[ To: Aurelius | Post 292991174, reply to 292991161 ] (Score: 2)
How do you explain all of the horrendous effects of radiation that are well documented and bedeviled survivors for years after the bombings? Is that all a hoax? Have you ever noticed how conspiracy nuts think EVERYTHING is a conspiracy.. and NOTHING is truly as it seems. No June, I do NOT think I'm being too hard on the beaver."
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 07:09 PM

Quote:
[ To: wacsog10 | Post 292991176, reply to 292991100 ] (Score: 1)
1) The bomb detonated 1800 ft above the surface, that would minimize any cratering. Minimize is not the same as totally absent. Another interesting piece of trivia regarding the dynamics of this so-called nuclear blast is the contradiction in reported temperatures. Imagine you are standing at ground level directly under a sky burst directly overhead at 1800 feet. History would have us believe that the temperature of the fissioning mass can reach tens of millions of degrees KELVIN (referenced to absolute zero) at it's centre and the records of Hiroshima would have us believe the temperatures on the ground were near 4000 degrees. Are you still with me here? I need for someone to explain to me how you can sink millions of degrees of heat with 1800 feet of thin air. The tems of millions of degrees said to be manifest in the core of Little Boy at detonation are consistent with the design imperatives of raising the hydrogen stage of the two stage hydrogen bomb to a temperature where fusion of that stage can occur. The trigger for the hydrogen bomb, the plutonium implosion design, is used to raise device temperatures to set off the hydrogen stage. Of course the plutonium implosion device is NOT what was used over Hiroshima (according to that belief) but the uranium hammer design produced more damage than the more sophisticated Nagasaki bomb. The Nagasaki implosion bomb (estimated yield 10 kilotons) was sold to the American public as an improved package yet the 20 kiloton Hiroshima bomb performed much better.
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2) An explosive force moves away from the center, and the bridge's axis is directly away from the center of the blast. Hence the modern and obviously heavily constructed bridge absorbed the force of the explosion along it' strenghts. a.) from above, since bridges are made to carry extreme weights. b) along it's axis which exposed it to the minimum force. Take the epicenter and draw a line upwards 1800 feet then draw another line back down to the bridge and you see what I mean. The shockwave had very little pre-cursor in it because of the height of the blast. The lines of force should have snapped that bridge like toothpicks. I suggest you see the movie Trinity to fully appreciate the forces at work as per the Jew's vision of it's destructive potential. The damage, as see in these models and pictures is more in line with fuel explosions and spreading fuel vapors ignited in tandem or in combination. The mountain range in the back could have bee rigged with charges that were unseen but felt underfoot. People are not hard to impress when their whole world lights up in a tide of fuel. Recall that the Allies liked the murderous effects of the Dresden firebombing. Sometimes I feel that Dresden and the Tokyo incendiary bombs were proving grounds for the August massacres in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
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3) The damage to the other large buildings could simply be a matter of their design, construction material etc.
The damage is severely inconsitent with linear shock waves. The damage inspires me to believe the fuels were spread by explosive dispersion and ignited much like the moderbn DAISEYCUTTER incendiary cluster f*ck the Army has now. Hiroshima may have been a testing ground for the Daiseycutter, like a scaled down version of the vapour/fuel nightmare they mounted in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Desden, Tokyo and later in Vietnam. Fire is a big preoccupation with these superstitous skunks. Their has to be a big fire componant in the ritual killing. Like 9/11, the Ford Pinto.
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4) If a giant ship filled with TNT would have exploded I will guarantee you there would be a gigantic crater, plus I think that the Japanese Navy might have noticed something was not quite right. Thats correct. The damage pattern projected in the models has NO crater componant. That is why it was likely a Daiseycutter type bomb or clusters of land-based devices that function like the Daiseycutter. May be the whole story was made up but I doubt that very much. I think the People of all those bombings smarted real bad.
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5) Air bursts are many times more efficient at leveling large areas than are ground bursts. The Nuclear Weaponeer narrating parts of the Trinity movie said that the most devastation comes from the low altitude blasts because the pre-cursor wave effect lifts everything off the ground. The simulation offered in T2 judgement day whereby the bomb is going off, you can see the precursor wave lift everything up into the air, cars, busses. You can see in this simulation, a great deal of care in accurately portraying the forces at work. Unlike the Hiroshima model, I find the T2 model more believable. You may have see some of the airbursts tested in the US proving grounds. They don't have much of a mushroom cloud. The mushroom cloud becomes more distinct as the charge gets low to the ground. In Hiroshima the smoke was everywhere. Smoke without wind. Look at the photos of the city after the explosion and ask why the roads are so clear. They never said anything about the bomb they used on Hiroshima as NOT having a wind componant. Look at the depicted damage and ask if this appears more consistant with firebombing then with atomic armaggeddon.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 07:15 PM

Quote:
How do you explain all of the horrendous effects of radiation that are well documented and bedeviled survivors for years after the bombings? Is that all a hoax? The Environmental Protection Agency of the United States has come down hard on the US Army Armouries for leaking toxins from the production of trinitrotoluene (TNT) (the army is the only authorized body to produce and manage TNT in the US.) into the environment. According to the tests done on laboratory animals TNT is a big cancer producer. Not to mention the desease and illness that could potentially confront fuel bomb victims. Note that pregnant military fuel supply clerks are transferred away from these occupations until the pregnancy is over. Refined fuels have more carcinogens than you can shake a stick at.
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OWK
[ To: cactus | Post 292991184, reply to 292991181 ] (Score: 1, Troll)
No June, I do NOT think I'm being too hard on the beaver."

Post Extras:
Aurelius
[ To: OWK | Post 292991192, reply to 292991174 ] (Score: 2)
I'm a believer in conspiracies, but an enlightened one - if I may say so myself.
The state is the problem, anarchy is the solution.

Post Extras:
OWK
I'm a believer in conspiracies, but an enlightened one - if I may say so myself. Are there conspiracies afoot in the world? Of course. But some of these guys are so profoundly paranoid-schizophrenic, as to be unable to discriminate reality from conspiratorial fantasy. For them... EVERYTHING is a conspiracy. What I find peculiar, is that there appear to be quite a few of them. Makes me wonder how they manage to function in life. No June, I do NOT think I'm being too hard on the beaver."
Post Extras:
cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 07:29 PM

Quote:
A nuclear air burst (which Hiroshima was) provides more downforce closer to the epicenter, and more lateral force radiating away to the point of dissipation. Have you ever seen a fragmentation grenade like those pineapple types used in the second world war? Do you recall that each little square on the outer skin becomes a lethal piece of shrapnel that radiate evenly from all directions on this grenade, well, think of the atomic bomb as such a device but with million degree winds at a million pound pressure instead of shrapnel. The blast wave is not unidirectional otherwise it would be a shape charge. Little Boy was not a focused shape charge aiming at the ground only. The radiating energy would race away from the critical mass in even, linear shock waves. COMPLETELY inconsistent with the evidence produced by the experts to support the claim that a successful atomic bomb has ever been produced and dropped on Hiroshima.
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As such, substantial structures near the absolute epicenter, are less likely to be destroyed than are structures slightly away from the center. because the force is mostly downward, as opposed to sideward.
When your building is sitting like a duck under the pressure and temperatures of an expanding mass of plasma 10 million degrees and producing winds in excess of a million pounds all this makes no difference. The best of structures melt like marshmallows in conditions like that.
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Of course if the structure is less substantial, it would likely be destroyed regardless of whether the majority of force is downward OR sideward. This is not always necessarily true. For the purpose of this situation, design criteria for the buildings is a moot point unless they are reinforced like Cheyene Mountain. The Military would not bother burying themselves under miles of steel and concrete if the a bomb represented little more than burning leaves in autumn. Think about it.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 07:34 PM
So, what do you think, did the Jews con the other countries into playing the hoax or did they sell them fake bombs? LOL.Imagine India performing a first strike on Pakistan not knowing the whole arsenal they bought from Israel were duds. Imagine the world finding out that India had made such a stupid first strike (imagine it already happened and we never knew, hilarious) move and Pakistan looked just as dumb when they tried nuclear retaliation. What do you think, do the other countries know or has the Jew bled every country with this fraud? I sure hope the bombs are real...LOL. How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
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Ombudsman
(agitator) 10/01/04 07:34 PM
Are you saying that nuclear weapons don't exist?

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wacsog10
(radical) 10/01/04 07:38 PM
Some thoughts; 1) Fuel air explosives are very efficient under certain circumstances, a) an enclosed area with optimum mixture can be catastrophic, a structure is built to accept pressure from the outside not the inside.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 08:03 PM
PITBULL
Suckers...LOL. How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 08:14 PM 1)
[ To: Ombudsman | Post 292991264, reply to 292991208 ] (Score:
Quote:
Are you saying that nuclear weapons don't exist? I can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. According to the information at my disposal, this would sadly/happily be the case. I'd sure hate to see the world go back to conventional war on a global scale so, In that sense I am disappointed to lose this valuable pseudo-deterent but it is/was a great cause of anxiety for the armaggeddon types that have wet dreams of coming out the bright end of a global meltdown in some kind of enviable position. So, yes, I believe the atom bomb is a hoax or was produced once and buried fast because it scared the crap out of everyone. I doubt they ever made it work but you never know. Cactus rule No. 1 beware of illusions. How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
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Ombudsman
(agitator) 10/01/04 08:19 PM
What about nuclear power plants? Are they a hoax too?
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1) Quote:
What about nuclear power plants? Are they a hoax too? No, they are not a hoax. Not according to the information at my disposal at this time. I hope we can find ways to use that energy safely in the future. The mentality varies greatly on the issues of pollution that worry so many people. At the far end of the scale you find people saying that individual homes should not have small "slow poke" type reactors poured into their basement foundations because they could use the byproduct to make atomic bombs. If the a bomb is a hoax we may be able to reopen that debate so every household has hundreds of years of REALLY cheap electricity. I hope every citizen can be empowered to do his part in using and disposing of radiactive waste so that these responsibilities don't become concentrated in massive generating plants like we see at present. Those are my ideas at present when it comes to nuclear energy, I see a good future in it, all the better if the mass destruction implied by atom bombs is removed from the formula. The government will have no excuse NOT to let individual citizens produce their own electricity using personal reactors, it's safe, it's cheap (after initial installation and purchase0 and far less dangerous spread out over many homes than it is concentrated at one spot. Some people have opposed these reforms as rediculous. I have said that the radioactive waste should be packed onto shuttles and boosted to the sun for disposal, one distinguished collegue interjected that this is stupid because it will only contribute to polluting space. Sometimes I think the Prozac in fish might do some of these people good,LOL. How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 08:57 PM

Interesting)
[ To: cactus | Post 292991343, reply to 292991304 ] (Score: 2,
Imagine when Sadaam Hussein finds out he was shopping around for a hoax. The Jews would have had a good laugh with that one. Imagine Bush explaining why he invaded Iraq because he thought Sadaam would get fleeced by the hoaxsters LOL. Think of the Iraqi trying to figure how stupid it was for Israel to attack their Osirak reactor, picture the Israeli pilots trying to understand that they destroyed the damn thing for nothing. If the Jews are in the know about the bomb hoax the way I suspect they are, they were destroying Osirak for it's economic potential, not military potential. Another time Americans were paying Israel tons of cash to keep them, and their so-called nuclear arsenals out of the conflict with the scudmeister when he directly attacked Israel with his missiles. What a mess. Canadians never became a nuclear player. What did Mr. Chretien know that we did not? Canada was selling tons of uranuim from it's mines in Sasketchewan to the weapons programs in the states. I remember the hypocrite Pierre Elliot Trudeau getting the Nobel Peace Prize meanwhile selling uranium to the Americans. A real pack of SKUNKS. Wait t'il we start looking at the Avro Arrow without the CBS rose glasses, LOL. AVRO REVISIONISM? The implications are mind boggling to say the least. I don't know where all this will lead but I can promise it won't be boring, LOL. How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
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Ombudsman
(agitator) 10/01/04 09:10 PM
This is a work of art.

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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 10:38 PM 1)
This is REFORM
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cactus
(rebel) 10/01/04 11:21 PM
Nice job JB, thanks.
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KingKangaroo
(freedom fighter) 10/02/04 01:19 AM
But some of these guys are so profoundly paranoid-schizophrenic, as to be unable to discriminate reality from conspiratorial fantasy. Yep, and as soon as there is some new terrorist outrage or hostage beheading they all pore over the "evidence" looking for "proof" of the conspiracy and, amazingly, they find said evidence everytime!!!! The current one is how, because the insurgents often hold US weapons in the hostage videos, they must clearly be Mossad agents. Ignore the fact that US soldiers and vehicles are being attacked daily providing ample opportunity for the capture of weapons, ignore the fact that brandishing the captured weapons of the occupier is a common resistance tactic throughout history. Ignore the fact that Iraq is awash in mercenaries who are no doubt willing to seel weaponry to the highest bidder. No, the fact that a few fighters hold CAR-15's or M-16's in the videos is PROOF POSITIVE of a massive Jewish conspiracy to rule the world. "Pat isn't with God, he's f***ing dead. He wasn't religious. So thank you for your thoughts, but he's f***ing dead," - Richard Tillman at his brother's funeral
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Splitends
(insurgent) 10/02/04 04:15 AM
That's easy to explain: It's called reinforced concrete, possibly buttressed with iron or steel support columns. Nuclear explosions do not annihilate all construction, only structures constructed of light materials like wood, thin sheet metal (warehouse), non-reinforced and aged
concrete, etc. It's easy enough to construct a building which will survive a nuclear blast. A cone or 4sided pyramid shaped reinforced concrete structure without windows would be ideal.
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wacsog10
(radical) 10/02/04 07:54 AM
The final answer ? Vast quantities of liquid natural gas were secretly introduced into the mountains 4 miles away from Hiroshima, then the LNG was piped into the city from the hidden storage facilities, and ignited. This makes it quite a bit easier to understand, so far.
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Ombudsman
(agitator) 10/02/04 08:14 AM
The implications of this are mind boggling. The entire cold war - a gigantic game of bluff! Or do you think the two sides perhaps colluded in perpetrating this hoax?
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wacsog10
(radical) 10/02/04 08:28 AM 1)
It may appear that there are two sides, but it is an illusion, just as Cactus has so ingeniously hypothesized. " It " is a gigantic international Mobius collusion that has bilked the Super Powers for hundreds of trillions of dollars, and the tax payers too !
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cactus
(rebel) 10/02/04 04:23 PM

Quote:
That's easy to explain: It's called reinforced concrete, possibly buttressed with iron or steel support columns. I understand that this discussion is about fake nuclear devices and I also aknowledge that we need to use the numbers the hoaxsters produced to vehicle this hoax. The skunk numbers are as follows, 10 million degrees in the core of the expanding mass of critical atomic material. The wind factor has been set at 1 million pounds pressure. Little Boy, recall, this is the bomb carrying all those interesting numbers, was detonated 1850 feet above the city. Like I said before, according to these numbers, you, and all the reinforced concrete in the world will vaporize instantly. The x-rays alone will kill you instantly. The million pound winds should press and heat ground zero to glassification and become hostile to life for many, many, many years. This, I repeat, is according to the numbers given by the skunk to instill fear and terror into the minds of those they wished to control and medicate. Do you understand what I am saying Splitends?
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Nuclear explosions do not annihilate all construction, only structures constructed of light materials like wood, thin sheet metal (warehouse), non-reinforced and aged
concrete, etc. For a fake a bomb, sure. Not the real thing if it existed outside the demented minds of those that perform stings like this. A nuclear blast performing up to expectations of the math detonated 1850 feet above the surface of any place will vaporize and FLATTEN everything. You would need sunglasses to look at the ground on a sunny day if you could approach the area safely, which you cannot for a very, very, very long time.
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It's easy enough to construct a building which will survive a nuclear blast. A cone or 4sided pyramid shaped reinforced concrete structure without windows would be ideal. It is not easy to build a nuclear shelter, not at all. It has to be underground, it has to have many layers of specially compacted and reinforced concrete. I read once that a direct hit to the top of Cheyene Mountain would defeat the atomic countermeasures in place there. Plenty of rebars and metric tons of concrete. Recall, the US army was exploring atomic device that burrow underground and they called them BUNKER BUSTERS. First off, these are small burrowing nukes, so increase yield is not the major factor. The major factor is that NOTHING could resist these explosions if the A Bomb were NOT a hoax. The fact that they are negates the need for bunkers unless you are shy of the Abrams tank and little wmds like that. Don't forget, conventional warefare is a real nasty, dirty affair and the absence of nuclear bombs only makes that insanity slightly more bearable. That is why I wish these bombs were true. At least with atomic bombs you could hope the next genocide of Gentiles would whack a few of the Jewish collaborators to the mass murder. Now we are back to the savage warfare that makes everybody sick and tired and dead. Hiroshima may not have had atomic destruction but it had destruction enough to prove that evil is NO hoax at all. I imagine that the Beardsley fellow and his scalar electromagnetics was to be the NEXT hoax when the world would have gotten rid of it's nuclear arsenals, LOL. The Jew never gives up, always howling at the fence to get into the compound and get to the food supplies. They never give up. That is what reform and vigilence are all about. Can't have one without the other. How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/02/04 04:36 PM
[ To: wacsog10 | Post 292992662, reply to 292991831 ] (Score: 1)
The final answer ?

Quote:
Vast quantities of liquid natural gas were secretly introduced into the mountains 4 miles away from Hiroshima, then the LNG was piped into the city from the hidden storage facilities, and ignited. This makes it quite a bit easier to understand, so far. Time may prove that you were wrong in a few logistical details but otherwise I would think you are very close to the truth in your assertion. I like YOUR model more that the dumbass atomic bull in the official model. Good call wacsog10. How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/02/04 04:51 PM 1)
Quote:
The implications of this are mind boggling. Especially when you start thinking of nuclear proliferation and the skunk friendlies that were permitted to have them. Russia, France, Britain, Germany, India (Pakistan?) US, Israel. Not too many Arabs. Skunks did not even want the Arabs to PROJECT THE ILLUSION they had atom bombs and gain political leverage. For some incredible reason the a bombs never fell into the hands of Arab so-called terrorists. New York should technically be glassified now if the Arabs wanted to 'get even." Looking at the Jew incited hatred in the eyes of the terrorized Arab mothers and children one might be forgiven for saying that a nuclear attack STILL WASN'T ENOUGH to "get even" It's a lot of fun thinking about this massive hoax. Sad and funny. Horrible and hilarious at the same time.
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The entire cold war - a gigantic game of bluff! The money and evil were REAL ENOUGH. The anxiety and terrifying fear felt by the unsuspecting world was real enough. The money confiscated from the hard working masses under false pretenses was real enough. Public schools that destroy critical thinkers are real enough. The atomic threat is a hoax I'm afraid.
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Or do you think the two sides perhaps colluded in perpetrating this hoax? I think Mr_Kurtz put it best when he said I (me) believed they (Jews) were controlling ALL FOUR SIDES. This is not true of course because the earth is not square, LOL. They control the world and have controlled it for some time now. They control all four corners of the global controversies. I would not be surpised it was the Jews that bolshevized the planet and formed it's little "Risk(tm)-like" geopolitical divisions to optimize profit and control of an otherwise spiritually balanced global community of humans. Like ducks in the foie gras factories.. we were cordonned off
and force fed illusions
until our metaphorical behinds blew up
Cactus Rule No. 1 Beware of Illusions How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/02/04 05:47 PM

Quote:
Especially when you start thinking of nuclear proliferation and the skunk friendlies that were permitted to have them. Russia, France, Britain, Germany, India (Pakistan?) US, Israel. China??? Gives a whole new dimension to the Vannunu story (never believed that skunk for a minute) and the other story where the Israeli hid their nuclear tests alongside the Chinese testing. The a bomb hoax could uncover some pretty neat patterns of manipulation and illusion. Like I said, it won't be boring, LOL. How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/02/04 05:52 PM
How about Iran that wants nukes of it's own? That's what I meant by hilarious. The Jews beating the crap out of them and turning that country into a mass of evil infested rubble for trying to buy into the hoax, well, that's what I meant about the SAD part. The a bomb is a hoax but the EVIL is real enough. How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
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Mariner
(agent provocateur) 10/02/04 05:58 PM
You may.
The trouble with most folks isn't so much their ignorance, as knowing so many things that ain't so. --Josh Billings
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cactus
(rebel) 10/02/04 06:59 PM
Lets try and sort this hoax into understandable history. Let's look at the bomb itself. First and foremost is for the victim to understand the sophisticated nature of the weapon used. You try to avoid the dumbass victims that scream "firebombing all over the place." Many victims in Hiroshima reacted this way. Talk was of a firebombing because Tokyo in March of 45 was still fresh in the literate world's memory. People all over Japan knew about THAT nice piece of skunk savagery on soft-target unarmed citizens. To get back to this idea of convincing your victim of the sophisticated nature of the weapon you need to bomb a target that is smart enough to understand the explanations they hear as the survivors heal their ghastly wounds. This notion finds no better example then the decision making process that led the "target committee" to the decision of placing Kyoto as the primary target. Of course Hiroshima WAS the second target and the cheap excuse of cloud cover on Kyoto was only to mask the fear the hoaxsters had that Kyotans may also be smart enough to see through this hoax and intellectual enough to make sure the whole world knew. If any point in the whole fierebombing stories of the Allies makes this clear, is this change of heart from Kyoto to Hiroshima HAD to be the defining moment where the guilty conscience (mens rea) became visible and observable. What is the same about Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki is that they were ALL firebombed (incendiary/holocaust-style) Incredibly big Ford Pintos. What sets them apart is the absence of media preconditioning before Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In the public eye, Dresden was in the evil (at least in media hype) Germany and Tokyo was the capitol of it's former ally so all is fine in war. In other words, the skunks and their global media control preconditionned the public into uncontrollable lusts for blind outrage while they could not do this before a TOP SECRET weapon is used. That is why so many people in official quarters opposed the use of the a bomb on civilians. They had not been preconditionned to levels of hatred and contempt compatible with a furious lust for vengeance. The media could NOT POSSIBLY foment the hatred required against Hiroshima and Nagasaki because the public would wonder why it was not used on the capitol, Tokyo, to unseat the government and avoid wasting such a valuable weapon on peaceful unarmed and probably productive and happy peasants..think about it. How to achieve world nuclear disarmanent? Expose the A_Bomb for the hoax it is.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/02/04 09:29 PM
More food for thought on this matter of abomb hoaxsters. Recall the terrorist threat alerts across the U.S. since 9/11.Notice how all dialogue of the reasons for the absence of a nuclear attack on New York are absent from the public view. Why would they not be milking the a bomb boogey man and warn against impending nuclear attacks? I think the bomb is progressively being removed from the public psyche because they have milked it enough. That's probably why "nuclear free" Kanada is operating some glassification plants that cost a bundle to operate and these plants (one operating relatively near where I live) are said to convert weapon's grade plutonium removed from decomissioned weapons in the field. Could it be that Kanada's reputation for peaceloving and nuclear freedom was the moral preconditioning required before Kanada became the a bomb hoax clearinghouse to launder away the hoax in a scam of glassification frauds? Who knows? One thing is certain is that Kanada plays an important role here. Now they want to desolve the a bomb from the minds of people so the people think the skunks smartened up and destroyed the stockpiles like the true superior beings they are and rose above common Gentile barbarity to save the human race. Bravo skunks! Pretty clever eh?
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Zaltocleotl
(free-thinker) 10/02/04 09:57 PM
wow Talk about OUT there! How do you explain the film of the detonations at both Nag. and Hir.? Gonna tell me that kind of advanced film fakery existed in 1945? Gonna tell me tens of thousands of Japanese civilians are faking the effects of radiation exposure even to this day, AND without being caught? Gonna tell me it was even POSSIBLE to ship that much TNT into enemy waters unnoticed? 20,000 TONS of TNT? Gonna tell me the picture you have seen of SURVIVORS have hair means there was no atomic blast? 1) SURVIVORS of a blast means they were far enough away that those burns were RADIATION burns, not HEAT burns. 2) Anyone close enough to have recieved HEAT burns from an atomic blast would have been dead in minutes. Not hours, not days, not weeks, MINUTES. 3) Radiation burns do not melt or destroy hair. They are burn-like lesions and damage to skin. Those pictures you are looking at of SURVIVORS are not heat burns, but radiation burns and most if not all those people in those picures are dead and died within months of those photos being taken. What few buildings survived did so becuase of the very rare practice of using stone, steel or concrete in Japan. 90% or more of all buildings in both cities were wood, paper and bamboo. That bridge, as you can see, is heavily built steel reinforced concrete. No wonder it survived. If it had taken the blast more to the side, as did all the bridges SOUTH and NORTH, it would have fallen, just as THEY DID. As for the streets being clear, only in photos taken days later. In photos taken immediately, the streets are harder to find by comparison, but are still visible, as debris was not 'blown across and over them' but was VAPORIZED, BURNED and blown clear out of the blast area. The immediate area was 'BLOWN CLEAN' by the winds raging at hundreds of miles per hour. Ever notice how leaves cover grass, but the streets are clearer? Same effect but on a larger scale. No atomic blasts......pfffft. There are enough things going on that need attention that are actually occuring but are called conspiracies, we don't need peeps trying this crap. It makes it just that much harder to impress the points of a real 'conspiracy theory'. ``If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same [...] They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section [...] they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.'' -The US Code, Title 18, 241, 'Conspiracy against rights'";
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -- Benjamin Franklin]
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cactus
(rebel) 10/02/04 10:44 PM

Quote:
[ To: Zaltocleotl | Post 292993353, reply to 292993299 ] (Score: 1)
Talk about OUT there! Don't you mean WAY OUT there?
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How do you explain the film of the detonations at both Nag. and Hir.? Hollywood, they existed then, did you know that?
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Gonna tell me that kind of advanced film fakery existed in 1945? No, but it is a fact that the civilian populations have always lagged behind military advances. Recall the transistor was primarily developed to reduce the weight on supersonic fighter warplanes. I don't know what kind of equipment they had at their disposal but I estimate it was reasonably good, not by today's standards of course, but fair enough for the task at hand. Recall that the internet did not have it's nose in everything back then. The world was seeing things through the Jew's colored eyeglasses. If they did NOT want you to see something you did not.
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Gonna tell me tens of thousands of Japanese civilians are faking the effects of radiation exposure even to this day, AND without being caught? Are you going to tell me that fuel bombs and ignited liquified gas fuel are devoid of cancer pathogens and are inoffensive to the skin and human tissue? I hope not.
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Gonna tell me it was even POSSIBLE to ship that much TNT into enemy waters unnoticed? 20,000 TONS of TNT? If the Japanese were in on it at the higher echelons the job was easily accomplished inside. After all they had 40,000 troops itching to do something and they were stationed right in Hiroshima itself. If a foreign invader, the 7 channel delta leading into the city with it's 78 bridges is perfectly suited for submarine action and general marine covert operations. The question is rather how to keep Hiroshima isolated from the outside world. Waterways, deltas and oceans = global mobility. Check the satellite map again if you don't see what I mean.
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Gonna tell me the picture you have seen of SURVIVORS have hair means there was no atomic blast? No, just means that the photos are not consistent with the design expectations of the atomic bomb. They are consistent with violence having its origins in the incendiary class of explosives, dispersed, synchronized.
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1) SURVIVORS of a blast means they were far enough away that those burns were RADIATION burns, not HEAT burns. TriNitroToluene and liquid gas incendiary devices radiate like hell too. The evidence supporting actual radiation sickness in Hiroshima looks more like evidence of cancers and burns consistent with conventional explosions. Not one doctor has reported the burns as anything BUT nuclear in origin because they had no idea it was TNT or some other unspecified conventional weapon. If they thought about it at all they might have chosen to go with the "atomic crowd" rather than become radical and describe the observations ethically and responsibly. Do you doubt for a single instant that all this had been thought of in advance? I can see why you would not think it thought out in advance because you were left with the idea that Hiroshima was the second priority for targetting. Pretty clever eh?
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2) Anyone close enough to have recieved HEAT burns from an atomic blast would have been dead in minutes. Not hours, not days, not weeks, MINUTES. We don't know what was used on Hiroshima and we are examining the options but one thing is absolutely certain in my mind and that is whatever happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was inconsistent with design expectations on a mathematical and physical model. Perhaps time will give us this information and Hiro/Naga soil samples of the future may reveal the truth of those days of horror in the summer of 45.
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3) Radiation burns do not melt or destroy hair. They are burn-like lesions and damage to skin. The xrays racing out ahead of the expanding mass of an exploding atomic bomb will vaporize anything, including hair. That is radiation and it is highly lethal in the configurations proposed by the a bomb models. 1850 feet of thin air is not a very good heatsink, or is it?
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Those pictures you are looking at of SURVIVORS are not heat burns, but radiation burns and most if not all those people in those picures are dead and died within months of those photos being taken. Same thing could happen with fuel and liquid gas configurations. Correct me if I am mistaken but do you think fuel bombs are a walk in the park? Talking about war movies did you examine those authentic aerial films of napalm striking the jungle canopy in Vietnam?
Take a look at the people that came screaming from under the canopy and tell me if that looks like the people you are describing in Hiroshima. The combustion characteristics of gas and solid fuel have been known for a long time and the fire bombing of Dresden and Tokyo yielded the lessons to mount Hiroshima and Nagasaki so that it shocked and awed beyond anything this war hardenned world had seen to date.
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What few buildings survived did so becuase of the very rare practice of using stone, steel or concrete in Japan. 90% or more of all buildings in both cities were wood, paper and bamboo. That bridge, as you can see, is heavily built steel reinforced concrete. No wonder it survived. If it had taken the blast more to the side, as did all the bridges SOUTH and NORTH, it would have fallen, just as THEY DID. The damage in Hiroshima is inconsistent with the design expectations of the so-called bomb designers. The question is not why a tree is standing or why there is no crater, the question is why isn't the entire area glassified and inhospitable to life. If radiation dies off so rapidly why cover the islands in the South Pacific with concrete? Why wasn't Hiroshima and Nagasaki covered in concrete and evacuated? As far as I know, they never implemented evacuation orders for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Odd contradiction.
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As for the streets being clear, only in photos taken days later. In photos taken immediately, the streets are harder to find by comparison, but are still visible, as debris was not 'blown across and over them' but was VAPORIZED, BURNED and blown clear out of the blast area. The immediate area was 'BLOWN CLEAN' by the winds raging at hundreds of miles per hour. Ever notice how leaves cover grass, but the streets are clearer? Same effect but on a larger scale. This damage is grossly inconsistent with design expectations for the atomic bomb. Not debris, the place should be glassified and buried in a concrete vault and the whole zone evacuated.
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No atomic blasts......pfffft. There are enough things going on that need attention that are actually occuring but are called conspiracies, we don't need peeps trying this crap. It makes it just that much harder to impress the points of a real 'conspiracy theory'. I will not take offense if you would like to be excused to go tend to these other matters. This thread is not about OTHER MATTERS, it is about a bomb hoaxes. That is the focus of this discussion and I must confess your contribution has done little to refute the premise of this discussion. If this subject is not your strong point you may find that matching your interests with your free time is far more rewarding. I mean that in a nice way.
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``If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same [...] They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section [...] they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.'' -The US Code, Title 18, 241, 'Conspiracy against rights'"; Is this a question?, an answer to a question?
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cactus
(rebel) 10/03/04 03:21 AM
I think Napalm was involved in the terror inflicted on Hiroshima and Nagasaki Here is the devil that did it..NAPALM
"never let your feelings get you down..open up your eyes and look around, it's just an illusion"Imagination
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Ombudsma n
(agitator) 10/03/04 03:03 PM
Have you considered the possibility of a dirty bomb - radioactive material with conventional explosives?
like.....duh
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cactus
(rebel) 10/03/04 07:44 PM

Quote:
[ To: Ombudsman | Post 292994947, reply to 292994404 ] (Score: 1)
Have you considered the possibility of a dirty bomb - radioactive material with conventional explosives? Not ONE bomb, several. Perhaps not ONE plane but several at very high altitude flying in a carpet bombing formation.
Several records would need to be examined to get the precise picture. Things like fuel requisitions, flight logs, maintenance schedules and a lot of stuff like that. Crews have to work double time to prep big planes and load them up with explosive ordinance.
I have examined before and after aerial reconnaissance photographs of the damage inflicted on Dresden and Tokyo. I have examined mushroom clouds from napalm bombs
and I think Hiroshima and Nagasaki have damage characteristic of massive incendiary napalm-type bombs. Grozny BEFORE carpet bombing:
Grozny AFTER carpet bombing:
You look at Dresden post-bombing and you note the difference only in the amount of hard buildings compared with the Hiro/Naga soft models.
You see concrete extremely damaged in Dresden and Tokyo and Grozny, Chechnya but you don't see as much concrete in Hiroshima. Which brings me to include building configurations and volatility amongst the Target Committee's priorities. Most of the theatre for the Hiroshima bombing was to be razed to the ground to simulate A-bomb design parameters.They did a very crappy job but the public bought it anyways. For a while that is. Kyoto may have had too many hard targets and hard targets mean high survival rates and more chances for noisy and embarassing leaks. These, I would think, are critical considerations when pulling a hoax of this magnitude. The part that sticks out all the time is the absence of craters on the ground in Hiroshima. One would expect craters where falling tons of steel meet the ground. I can't say if the Hiroshima models and photos were modified to hide the craters that you would expect with gravity bombing, but, was it beyond the means of technology at the time to fabricate ordinance with
parachute-type flaps to slow down the fall of the bombs?
Would it be possible that altitude detectors on the carpet bombing skunk's bombs made them blow up just a few hundred yards above the target and then ignited napalm rains down from the sky?
The clean streets are highly visible in the Grozny aerial reconnaissance photos, could THIS be the reason:
A few craters appear like little specs on the road in the aerial photos of Grozny posted above. If anyone needs a bigger copy of those aerial photos to see the craters clearly just PM me. So few craters for such a BIG bombing run that one imagines the retouching of the aerial Hiroshima post-bombing photos must have been fairly easy work. The retouch artist probably wanted to give the skunk his moneys worth and put Liquid Paper all over the roads, make the model prettier for the boss. I see the damage of Dresden, Tokyo, Grozny, and Hiroshima and I see striking similarities. You be the judge. I think Hiroshima and Nagasaki were carpet bombed with napalm-type ordinance modified to suit the occasion. Too many people would recall seeing fast low flying small single-bomb-type planes flying in for a coordinated napalm run.
No one would see or hear the very high altitude formation and would think the massive assault arrived in one massive blow. Certainly a great effort was put into assuring the synchronicity of the blasts. In the end, to answer your question directly, I would not think they were using radioactive jackets on the conventional ordinance used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. These are crimes committed against humanity. These are genocides masquerading as war or the pretext for war. That these Satanic killers have a morbid fascination with sacrifice wholly consumed in fire is the easy part to understand? Call them pyro maniacs if you like but they are all the same devils that brought you: Dresden
Tokyo
Pearl Harbor
Vietnam
The Reichstag Fire
September 11 2001
USS Liberty
Iraq TWICE
Why don't we all SMART-UP and take the damn matches away from these freaks? Spiritually hobbled trash.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/03/04 09:25 PM
If someone were sitting on a fence on a hillside a few kilometers away, would this be the way this person would have seen Hiroshima when the so-called atomic bomb went off at 8:15 in the MOURNING?
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cactus
(rebel) 10/03/04 11:00 PM
Welcome to a world free of nuclear weapons, happy birthday everybody.
Post Extras:
cactus
(rebel) 10/04/04 03:04 AM
Here are some interesting facts (anyways, that's what THEY call them) from The Fact Index I have imported some of these interesting facts into this discussion to give my opinion and to expose the extreme contradictions in the facts as they apply to the events of the Hiroshima Bombings. Furthermore, I will try when possible to add a comment that illustrates the reason for the contradiction in historical terms and in the hoaxster's mindset. I am not saying that anyone is INTENTIONALLY circulating contradictory stories but one has to note the absence of interest in correcting those contradictions and get the record straight. Here we go, from the link;
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History The city was heavily damaged in World War II by the nuclear weapon Little Boy, which was the second such device to be detonated, and the first ever used in military action. The nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were major factors leading to the surrender of the Japanese Government several days later Let's see what is wrong here. Logic appears to be lacking in the ABomb timeline. The U.S. government develops a uranium hammer-type atomic device that is SO efficient that it does not require testing. They eventually said it yeilded the equivalent of 20,000 tons (20KT) of TriNitroToluene from THAT so-called atomic bomb. So, The U.S. has a great weapon and they haven't used it yet when they decide to build a new-and-improved bomb. They pile up thousands of tons of TNT for a reference blast and "BOOM", they detonate the new so-called implosion plutonium bomb (later dubbed FAT MAN) and measured it's new-and-improved power yield against the reference in the TNT test explosion in the New Mexico desert (recall, this is the event I described in an earlier post where the guys were hammering the crates of TNT in the hot noonday sun). Great! so now the U.S. has 2 so-called fully functional atom bombs. They had LITTLE BOY :
They had FAT MAN (aka FAT CHANCE) :
They had THE PLANS :
They had THE TARGETS :
Now comes the weird part. They drop the inferior uranium hammer type atom bomb on Hiroshima and they get a 20,000 ton (20KT) punch, then they use the second, more powerful implosion plutonium bomb on Nagasaki and get a measly 10,000 ton (10KT) pop (relatively speaking of course). Is anybody else confused by this circus of contradictions?
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During World War II, Hiroshima was a city of considerable military importance. It contained the 2nd Army Headquarters, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for troops. To quote a Japanese report, "Probably more than a thousand times since the beginning of the war did the Hiroshima citizens see off with cries of 'Banzai' the troops leaving from the harbor." One minute Hiroshima is a soft target that should never have been bombed, the next it is a fortress protecting the whole southern region of Japan. Note the author of this piece having included the "battle cries" to morally justify the assault on the city. Unfortunately, that was the only crap you were allowed to see in the globalist Jew's rose-colored glasses of media control.
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The center of the city contained a number of reinforced concrete buildings as well as lighter structures. Outside the center, the area was congested by a dense collection of small wooden workshops set among Japanese houses; a few larger industrial plants lay near the outskirts of the city. The houses were of wooden construction with tile roofs. Many of the industrial buildings also were of wood frame construction. The city as a whole was highly susceptible to fire damage.
This is precisely why I said earlier that THIS was the only criteria, being highly susceptible to fire damage, that the Target Committee COULD NOT have chosen Kyoto as a primary as they said. It was said that Kyoto was a primary target to ward off suspicions that the mark had been pre-conditionned in Hiroshima. When you look at Hiroshima as the secondary target you tend to lose sight of the advance preparations necessary for the hoaxsters to complete the illusion. You are simply misled to think they had no time for advance alternative planning because Hiroshima was supposed to have BEEN the secondary target all along.
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Some of the reinforced concrete buildings were of a far stronger construction than is required by normal standards in America, because of the earthquake danger in Japan. This exceptionally strong construction undoubtedly accounted for the fact that the framework of some of the buildings which were fairly close to the center of damage in the city did not collapse. Another is that the blast was more downward than sideways; this has much to do with the "survival" of the Prefectural Promotional Hall (pictured), which was only a few metres from the aiming point. (The ruin was made a UNESCO World Heritage site in 1996[1] over the objections of the US and China.[1]) Anyone that fully appreciates the forces at work in the destruction of Hiroshima understands that the damage is GROSSLY INCONSISTENT with the predicted mathematical calculations as they apply to the dynamics of a near-instant release of critical thermonuclear energy. The pictures of post bomb Hiroshima are far more indicative of napalm-style firebombing than ANY SO-CALLED ABOMB.
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The population of Hiroshima had reached a peak of over 380,000 earlier in the war but prior to the atomic bombing the population had steadily decreased because of a systematic evacuation ordered by the Japanese government. At the time of the attack the population was approximately 255,000. This figure is based on the registered population, used by the Japanese in computing ration quantities, and the estimates of additional workers and troops who were brought into the city may not be highly accurate. The skunks evacuating before the BBQ no doubt. 60,000, sounds about right.
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Hiroshima was the primary target of the first U.S. nuclear attack mission. The mission went smoothly in every respect. The weather was good, and the crew and equipment functioned perfectly. In every detail, the attack was carried out exactly as planned, and the bomb performed exactly as expected. Recall the Target Committee chose Kyoto as PRIMARY and Hiroshima as SECONDARY and it was alledged that it was DUE TO CLOUD COVER that they diverted to the secondary target. They say the bomb performed exactly as predicted when the record says it detonated 800 feet off course. Very contradictory. Cactus Rule No.2. Watch for Contradictions.
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The bomb exploded over Hiroshima at 8:15 on the morning of August 6, 1945. About an hour previously, the Japanese early warning radar net had detected the approach of some American aircraft headed for the southern part of Japan. The alert had been given and radio broadcasting stopped in many cities, among them Hiroshima. The planes approached the coast at a very high altitude. At nearly 8:00 A.M., the radar operator in Hiroshima determined that the number of planes coming in was very small - probably not more than three - and the air raid alert was lifted. The normal radio broadcast warning was given to the people that it might be advisable to go to shelter if B-29's were actually sighted, but no raid was expected beyond some sort of reconnaissance. At 8:16 A.M., the B-29 Enola Gay dropped the atomic bomb called "Little Boy" over the central part of the city and the bomb exploded with a blast equivalent to 12,000 tons of TNT, killing 80,000 outright. This fact/quote suggests more than one aircraft incoming. This would tend to confirm the carpet bomb formation theory of a concerted napalm bomb attack. I presume three B-29s could easily carpet bomb Hiroshima back to the Stone Age. The city WAS highly flammable.
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At the same time, Tokyo control operator of the Japanese Broadcasting Corporation noticed that the Hiroshima station had gone off the air. He tried to use another telephone line to reestablish
his program, but it too had failed. About twenty minutes later the Tokyo railroad telegraph center realized that the main line telegraph had stopped working just north of Hiroshima. From some small railway stops within ten miles of the city there came unofficial and confused reports of a terrible explosion in Hiroshima. All these reports were transmitted to the Headquarters of the Japanese General Staff. The KEY WORDS being "confused reports of a terrible explosion". The confusion could be a cover for MULTIPLE EXPLOSIONS.
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Military headquarters repeatedly tried to call the Army Control Station in Hiroshima. The complete silence from that city puzzled the men at Headquarters; they knew that no large enemy raid could have occurred, and they knew that no sizeable store of explosives was in Hiroshima at that time. A young officer of the Japanese General Staff was instructed to fly immediately to Hiroshima, to land, survey the damage, and return to Tokyo with reliable information for the staff. It was generally felt at Headquarters that nothing serious had taken place, that it was all a terrible rumor starting from a few sparks of truth. Sounds like the BULL and the TRUTH were locking horns. The BULL prevailed, history has sadly shown.
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The staff officer went to the airport and took off for the southwest. After flying for about three hours, while still nearly 100 miles from Hiroshima, he and his pilot saw a great cloud of smoke from the bomb. In the bright afternoon, the remains of Hiroshima were burning. No mention of THE SMELL in the air. Those fuel/napalm cluster f*cks must have smelled fuel real bad. How can we have such a BIG event go on record with next-to-nothing (I think it more like NOTHING) said about the SMELL in the air. The nose is a GREAT detective. Somehow, THE NOSE was instructed to BUTT-OUT of the A Bomb story. I would like to see a Dresden survivor smelling the air after the Hiroshima blast and NOT remembering THAT vividly.
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Their plane soon reached the city, around which they circled in disbelief. A great scar on the land, still burning, and covered by a heavy cloud of smoke, was all that was left of a great city. They landed south of the city, and the staff officer immediately began to organize relief measures, after reporting to Tokyo. But no evacuation! Evacuations BEFORE but none after. Strange bomb that radiates so little radioactivity.
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Tokyo's first knowledge of what had really caused the disaster came from the White House public announcement in Washington, sixteen hours after the nuclear attack on Hiroshima. By the end of 1945, it is estimated that 60,000 more people died due to nuclear fallout sickness. However, this total does not include longer term casualties from radiation exposure. More like violent reactions to fuel/admixtures and cancerous pathogens from the smoke and fumes and burning chemicals in this INDUSTRIAL city. Assumption is the mother of all f*ck ups.
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Starting almost immediately after the conclusion of World War II, and continuing to the present day, the dropping of atomic bombs on the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki has been questioned. Their use has been called barbarian since, besides destroying a military base and a military industrial center, tens of thousands of civilians were killed. Some have claimed that the Japanese were already essentially defeated, and that use of the bombs was unnecessary. Some have also suggested that a demonstration of an atomic bomb in an uninhabited region should have been attempted. Not much profit in MORALITY and ETHICS according to some people. Somebody HAD to get hurt bad. The A Bomb hoax had to GET ROLLING and start becoming profitable. The horror had to be REAL, not a peaceful demonstration as statesmen and true diplomats ought to do.
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In reply, defenders of the decision to use the bombs say that it is almost certain that the Japanese would not have surrendered without their use, and that hundreds of thousands perhaps millions - would have perished in the planned U.S. invasion of Japan. To support their argument, they point out that the Japanese agreed to surrender only after the second bomb was dropped, when it was evident that the first was not an isolated event, and future prospects were for a continuing rain of such bombs. (In actuality, the U.S. did not have another atomic bomb ready after the bombing of Nagasaki due the difficulty of producing fissile material.) Regarding the suggestion of a demonstration, they maintain that, given the mind-set of the Japanese at the time, it is unlikely that any conceivable benign demonstration would have induced surrender. Just another way of saying "them BAD, us GOOD" lets beat the crap out of them. A cheap old skunk saying but it still gets good mileage in this bizarro world of public schools and toxic media monopolies.
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Others contend that Japan had been trying to surrender for at least two months, but the US refused by insisting on an unconditional surrenderwhich they did not get even after the bombing, the bone of contention being retention of the Emperor. When the fact that IT WAS ALL A HOAX settles in, people will feel better understanding the truth instead of trying to make sense out of this genocide masquerading as an A Bomb. Here's a precious tidbit for the really curious in the crowd, from the same site and a few links down in the Mitsuo Fuchida section I found the following:
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Fuchida wrote that he was in Hiroshima the day before the atom bomb was dropped, attending a week-long military conference with the Army. He had received a long distance call from Navy Headquarters, asking him to return to Tokyo. This Fuchida person was none other than the Japanese Imperial Navy Pilot that led the attack on Pearl Harbor. WHAT was HE doing in Hiroshima the day before THE BOMB? Talk about A Bomb Revisionism meets The Pearl of the Revisionist Harbors:
Kinda like HOAX CROSSWALKS, LOL.
Post Extras:
cactus
(rebel) 10/05/04 06:00 AM
Any discussion of plutonium implosion bombs HAS to include some kind of discussion of SHAPE CHARGES. These are conventional plastique explosives shaped to transfer the shock wave of the blast towards a given point of focus. You could almost say that a bullet and it's explosive is a miniature shape charge that spends it's explosive energy directing the bullet to it's precise point.
The spherical plutonum core of the implosion-style physics package is surrounded with Semtektype plastique shape charges. If all goes well, EACH INDIVIDUAL shape charge surrounding the core should detonate simultaneously and direct this explosive energy semetrically creating a perfectly linear wave that compresses the plutonium to it's critical mass. The rest is a HOT topic of dicussion. I found some literature on this subject on the web and I will import it to this discuss to offer my opinions and insights into this VERY CRITICAL area of atomic bomb hoaxing. From Daily Nexus Online
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Shape charges are specialized explosives molded into special shapes that control the direction of their explosion. The directional force of these explosions results in incredible precision, allowing demolition crews to drop enormous skyscrapers into their own basements. Imagine the octagons and pentagons surrounding this soccer ball are explosive plastique charges shaped on the inside like wedges to direct the cumulative energy symetrically to the centre of the sphere. The tricky part is getting the charges to go off at the EXACT SAME TIME. I READ SOMEWHERE THAT THE SOCCER BALL DESIGN CHANGES WERE THE RESULT OF DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY LOBBYING, This is the old design:
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For the purposes of a nuclear reaction, the nucleus of the atom can be considered a target. If you try and hit it with an electron or a proton, you will always miss because these are charged
particles and will veer one way or the other when they approach the charged components of the atom. When scientists discovered the neutron, however, they had found their magic bullet. This is where those famous notions of uncertainty and mathematical paradox come into play. These are the VERY SAME NOTIONS that prominent scientists believe have been solved and DO NOT EXIST. Wrong Weizenheimer, back to the blackboard where math meets THE REAL WORLD. One single error in the tinyest of details in the implementation of the abstract model results in a DUD. That is why they were said to absorb unlimited amounts of uncoordinated impact without going CRITICAL. In other words you could run one over with an Israeli D9 Caterpillar buldozer and nothing will happen if the FIRING PIN IS MISSING. The firing pin would be the famous "ballet of wishful thinking" that fires the plastique in utopian degrees of synchronicity and compresses the core to critical proportions. Neutrons WERE NOT the magic bullet, near-absolute synchronicity in the discharge of the shape charge plastiques HAD to be the cornerstone of that game of numbers.
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Since the neutron has no charge, it does not interact with the electrons orbiting the nucleus or the protons in the nucleus itself as it closes on the target. When the neutron strikes the nucleus, it splits it into pieces and releases a few of the neutrons formerly trapped inside. And guess what happens after that? The chain reaction, if successful at all, consumes the fissionable mass before it can become critical and contribute to the exponential and very rapid expansion of the release of thermonuclear energy. Recall the experts explaining that BARELY ONE GRAM of the so-called weapon's grade uranium in Little Boy was converted to useful energy. In the VERY HEAVY load of "lead" in Little Boy bomb ONLY ONE GRAM DID ALL THAT DAMAGE. One gram of fissionable uranium converts to 10 million degrees and million pound winds and the equivalent of 20KT of TriNitroToluene. They really wanted to play the Greek Gods.
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These extra neutrons that split off from the nucleus as it breaks up can be used to set up a chain reaction. If the conditions are right, they will in turn strike the nuclei of other atoms, causing them to split or "fission" as well, in turn causing other atoms to fission and so on. Each time fission takes place, part of the mass of the nucleus involved is actually converted into energy. This is described by Einstein's famous equation, E=mc2, which says that matter and energy are equivalent. There's Mr. Trustmeimajew again. Always at the critical junctures of the smokescreen process. His school teachers were probably right on the money when they described Einstein as a dumbass lazy bum. So many parents thought their dumbass kids were right on track because Einstein turned out PRETTY GOOD, LOL.
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Because a chain reaction keeps going, energy is continually released. When the rate of energyrelease is controlled, what you have is a nuclear power plant. What you have when it is uncontrolled is a nuclear weapon or a Chernobyl. The infiltration of the Jew and his swarm can also be likened to a runaway chain reaction. The effects are similar in many ways. Not as much heat but lots of death and destruction and fear.
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The trick to keeping a chain reaction going in the first place is to make sure that each neutron released when one atom fissions actually goes on to hit another atom. To make this happen you need a lot of atoms lying around. There are a limited number of substances that will fission properly to create a chain reaction. Textbook definition of WISHFUL THINKING
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One of these is U-235, an isotope of uranium. The amount of uranium necessary to ensure a chain reaction is known as the critical mass. The atomic bomb exploded over Hiroshima was a uranium bomb, also called a gun-type bomb. In this weapon, a large piece of uranium is placed at one end of what is effectively a rifle-barrel. A bullet, also made of uranium, is fired through the barrel into the larger piece. The total mass of the two exceeds the critical mass and the bomb goes off as a result. Here we arrive at ANOTHER important crossroad in the A BOMB revisionism study. Recall that there existed a certain issue about RETURNING TO BASE WITH LITTLE BOY. That the pilot of Enola Gay had FIVE potential targets, I don't recall offhand the last THREE but I recal Kyoto was FIRST and Hiroshima IF FIRST PRIORITY CANCELLED. The story was that the plane WAS NOT to return with the load. THE LOAD WAS CONSIDERED A THREAT in the eventuality of a crash on domestic soil. So the idea was to DROP the load at BEST CONVENIENCE. The above quote explains the bomb function in a way that anyone can see how easy it is to make it innofensive with a FAIL SAFE. This so-called atomic bomb needs that SMALL AMOUNT OF URANIUM to complete the process. Making this process safe in the case of accidents is rather elementary and, in my mind, should not have been cause for the concerns expressed. I think too many people were involved and the WINDOW IN TIME AND OPPORTUNITY had opened and nothing could stop the hoax from setting in. Lots of people had to be sacrificed, burnt alive under a rain of ignited jellied gasoline.
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U-235 is exceedingly rare and hard to refine from its more common counterpart U-238. A more efficient type of bomb quickly replaced it: the plutonium bomb. Plutonium is an element generally not found in nature. It is produced and harvested from nuclear reactors. In one case, a natural deposit of uranium in Africa acted as a natural reactor for some time; but if it produced plutonium, the stuff has long since broken down into more stable elements. That's NOT what I hear about the HALF-LIFE of plutonium. I recall watching a skunk TV Dokudrama where this guy was walking amidst 12 foot hight concrete silos said to be full of spent plutonium. The guy explained that he would drop dead where he stood IN AN INSTANT if that concrete barrier was lifted and his body was exposed to the radiological nightmare. I have seen literature that discussed ways TO WARN FUTURE GENERATIONS of the buried plutonium. Man, you listened to those talking heads and YOU GOT THE MESSAGE FAST...THAT CRAP IS SUPPOSED TO BE HOT! No evacuation orders for Nagasaki after the first so-called plutonum implosion bomb. The hoaxsters were playing "confuse-them-if-you-can'tmake-them greedy" games.
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To make a plutonium bomb, scientists first had to produce plutonium. The element, as it turns out, is highly unstable, which makes critical mass a touchy subject. Nominally safe amounts of plutonium can hair-trigger and cause an explosion. So rather than try and construct a gun-type bomb of plutonium, scientists used a very small amount of plutonium about the size of a grapefruit - and crushed it down until its atoms were so tightly packed that there were enough of them in one place to begin a chain reaction. Until it is compressed, the tiny amount of plutonium is idle. This made the bomb safe on the shelf and still just as deadly (even more so) than the uranium bomb. Here is one of those RARE GLIMPSES into the reality of the mathematical roadblock of unpredictablity. Math cannot always resolve issues involving mass-in-transition. Especially high velocity, high energy transitions in state. Things get very FUZZY at these levels. The finest that is written on this matter find no better expression than the elusive atomic bomb. The expectations
placed on matter and the real world for the expression of these mathematical formulations are not reasonable. Matter cannot be coerced this way. It's wishful thinking, sophisticated and elegant wishful thinking.
The amount of conventional plastique surrounding the core is AMPLE to vaporize the fissionable material BEFORE IT EVER GOES CRITICAL. Math does not go beyond that point without resolving (in other words predicting) the unpredictable random acts of matter. That is a considerable amount of plastic explosive surrounding the core, enough to SOCK IT to Nagasaki GOOD. Semtek-like explosives, aside from deisel/fertilizer combinations, are VERY powerful. Look at this model and wonder how many pounds of plastique is in there, up in the primary of this hyrogen model : Note the mass of white plastique surrounding the core of the upper PRIMARY fission stage of a so-called hydrogen bomb :
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Compressing the grapefruit-sized ball of plutonium to the size of a walnut takes an enormous amount of force applied equally on all sides at precisely the same moment. This is why shape charges are used as the trigger. The plutonium bomb itself releases so much energy that it can be used to fuse hydrogen into helium, which releases even more energy. This is where the hydrogen bomb comes from.
You see, here again, contradiction rears it's ugly face again. I read that the plutonium was compressed from Softball size to BASEBALL size. A WALNUT...No kidding. I wonder how the plutonium fails to vaporize entirely while ALL THIS SHRINKING is going on? Reminds me of Scott's excitement when the aliens told him they would help him convert the entire Enterprise engines to the size of A WALNUT. I guess the author was watching Star Trek while writing. I'm sure it happens. The Hydrogen bomb MUST HAVE the implosion trigger that raises the temperatures into the millions of degrees for the FUSION stage to operate. The fusion stage ABSOLUTELY requires millions of degrees (Kelvin) in order to fuse the deureruim/tritium mixture. Technically, the fallout of the secondary stage produces WATER. The fallout from the hydrogen stage, if not doped with radiological elements in the core, is H2O. Problem is that it's a long way from mathto-fission (weapon-style) -to-controlled implosion-to-hydrogen trigger,..a long road indeed. If one of the first steps does not work, the rest that follows IS JUST MORE WISHFUL THINKING.
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All this horrifying gadgetry was monitored by the Atomic Energy Commission, which later became the Department of Energy. While it still regulates nuclear labs across the country, the D.O.E. now has another pet project - the Human Genome Project.
No kidding! LOL. Grab on to that wallet TIGHT folks, LOL.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/05/04 06:52 AM
Recall this diagram? Note the direction of the arrows in the Little Boy uranium hammer configuration:
Now look at this one:
This one from The Illustrated Science and Invention Encyclopedia International Edition 1977 volume 1 page 3:
Cactus rule no.2 beware of contradictions "never let your feelings get you down..open up your eyes and look around, it's just an illusion"Imagination
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cactus
(rebel) 10/06/04 09:24 PM

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This is described by Einstein's famous equation, E=mc2, which says that matter and energy are equivalent.
More on this.. Crank dot net on Einstein

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"Most people think Einstein was a genius. Even though he did poorly in school, it is generally assumed that Einstein became a genius later on. It's also widely believed that he used superior intellect and complex mathematical reasoning to finally arrive at E=MC2 [sic]. The truth about Einstein is altogether different. Even though he was pretty smart, his accomplishments didn't come from a wildly superior intellect. He didn't arrive at his famous equation by complex mathematical reasoning. In fact, he didn't use mathematical or scientific reasoning at all! If Einstein didn't arrive at E=MC2 by mathematical or scientific reasoning, how did he get there? The answer is very simple ... He made it up! That's right. He took a wild stab. He guessed. He made it all up! Without any proof, evidence, or scientific reasoning, he just woke up one day and said 'It's got to be so.' Then, in 1905, he published his 'discovery' in a three-paged article in an obscure scientific journal and...well, the rest is history. Here's what really happened. ..."
Einstein's wife, Mileva Maric did his math for him
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Soon the two physics students fell in love and began living together, sharing love and textbooks. The work they would do together would change the world of science and re-arrange the universe. Maric is finally beginning to be noticed among scholars. Her achievements were first chronicled by Desanka Trbuhovic-Gjuric in her book In the Shadow of Albert Einstein, which, unfortunately, has been published only in German. Because Trbuhovic-Gjuric relied on oral reports of friends of the Einsteins her documentation is not considered rigorous enough. Trbuhovic-Gjuric writes that Maric always considered herself as partner of Einstein, and when asked why she did not insist on more of the credit for their joint work, she replied, "We are one stone; Ein stein."....
Another view of the Einstein hoax

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1.5- The author's disillusionment with the job performance of those from whom he had hoped to learn led him to study the subject matter by starting from basics using an approach which was suitable for the analysis of relativistic phenomena (i.e.- velocity effects and gravity effects). This capability is not possessed by the Tensor Calculus commonly used by physicists and which allows them to by-pass the need to understand the phenomenon they were investigating. The author recognized, as does a surveyor who routinely corrects his observations for the effects of ambient temperature on the length of his measuring tape, that observations made between reference frames differing in velocity and/or elevation require a correction for the effects of that difference on the size of the units of measurement he employs. Only after appropriate corrections have been made can valid conclusions be drawn as to what actually occurs between different velocity and/or elevation reference frames. The required technique for studying relativistic effects is Dimensional Analysis which was developed in the 19th century to facilitate experiments in hydraulic engineering. The Lorentz Transformations of both the Lorentz Transformation-Aether Theory and Special Relativity provide the information required to allow the use of Dimensional Analysis for a rigorous analysis of the effects of velocity. To examine the gravitational field, it was necessary for the author to devise a means of deriving gravitational equivalents of the Lorentz Transformations that did not include the loop of circular reasoning that caused General Relativity to be defective. 1.6- The real test of an expert's knowledge is his ability to make his subject matter intuitively understandable to an intelligent layman......
Richard Moody, Jr. in Nexus Magazine: Plagiarist of the Century

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The most recognisable equation of all time is E = mc2. It is attributed by convention to be the sole province of Albert Einstein (1905). However, the conversion of matter into energy and
energy into matter was known to Sir Isaac Newton ("Gross bodies and light are convertible into one another...", 1704). The equation can be attributed to S. Tolver Preston (1875), to Jules Henri Poincar (1900; according to Brown, 1967) and to Olinto De Pretto (1904) before Einstein. Since Einstein never correctly derived E = mc2 (Ives, 1952), there appears nothing to connect the equation with anything original by Einstein......
Dr. Paul Bowers on the Einstein myth.

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Anyone who has read Einstein's 1905 paper will immediately recognize the similarity and the lack of originality on the part of Einstein. Thus we see that the only thing original about the paper was the term 'Special Theory of Relativity.' Everything else was plagiarized. Over the next few years, Poincar became one of the most important lecturers and writers regarding relativity, but he never, in any of his papers or speeches, mentioned Albert Einstein. Thus, while Poincar was busy bringing the rest of the academic world up to speed regarding relativity, Einstein was still working in the patent office in Bern and no one in the academic community thought it necessary to give much credence or mention to Einstein's work. Most of these early physicists knew that he was a fraud.....
The incredibly low IQ of jews like Einstein

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Gould's most inflammatory allegation is to blame IQ testers for increasing the toll of the Holocaust. His thesis is that early IQ testers claimed Jews as a group scored low on their tests. This finding was then allegedly used to support passage of the restrictive Immigration Act of 1924, under which Jewish refugees were denied entry in the 1930s. Gould even claims that Henry H. Goddard in 1917 and Carl C. Brigham in 1923 labeled four-fifths of Jewish immigrants as ``feeble-minded . . . morons.'' http://www.eugenics.net/papers/jprnr.html Analyzing the personal invectives of einsteinians
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No such mutual exclusion exits. The factual disclosure that Poincare and Lorentz hold priority for the special theory of relativity rather requires that Pauli's statements of praise of Einstein be insincere, and indeed Pauli qualifies his statements, "in a way," which fact Dr. Stachel avoids addressing. All the elements of pressure and submission exist in Klein's letter, and one should bear in mind the stature of Felix Klein--then the world's leading expert on nonEuclidean geometry and one of the greatest of the great minds responsible for the reputation of the Goettingen Academy as a world leader in mathematics. In his letter, Klein directs Pauli as an authority, informs Pauli of his like for Einstein and Einstein's peculiar remarks, and makes clear to Pauli that he wants Einstein praised, albeit with the leftovers from Poincare. Wolfgang Pauli was quite young at the time and Felix Klein's attitude towards Einstein must have served as a source of pressure on Pauli to praise Einstein, even after proving that Einstein did not originate the major concepts of the special theory of relativity....
Einstein's theories" proven wrong by successful GPS
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The advance of the perihelion of Mercury's orbit, another famous confirmation of General Relativity, is worth a closer look (the perihelion is the point in the orbit closest to a sun). Graduate theses may one day be written about this peculiar episode in the history of science. In his book, Subtle Is the Lord, Abraham Pais reports that when Einstein saw that his calculations agreed with Mercury's orbit, "he had the feeling that something actually snapped in him ... This experience was, I believe, by far the strongest emotional experience in Einstein's scientific life, perhaps in all his life. Nature had spoken to him." Fact: The equation that accounted for Mercury's orbit had been published 17 years earlier, before Relativity was invented. The author, Paul Gerber, used the assumption that gravity is not instantaneous, but propagates with the speed of light. After Einstein published his General Relativity derivation, arriving at the same equation, Gerber's article was reprinted in *Annalen der Physik* (the journal that had published Einstein's Relativity papers). The editors felt that Einstein should have acknowledged Gerber's priority. Although Einstein said he had been in the dark, it was pointed out that Gerber's formula had been published in Mach's Science of Mechanics, a book that Einstein was known to have studied. So how did they both arrive at the same formula?...
FBI file: Einstein denied a visa to enter the US in 1932 "never let your feelings get you down..open up your eyes and look around, it's just an illusion"Imagination
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EnSabahNur
(insurgent) 10/06/04 09:38 PM
Well, I believe that the U.S carried out 9/11, it was a hoax., the Holocaust....Hoax,the A-Bomb, quite real I'm afraid. Not everything is a Hoax....just the hoax's. By way of Deception we shall do war
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cactus
(rebel) 10/07/04 09:41 PM
When napalm and TNT and plastique (C4) are unavailable, these devils turn to the sun. Here, in this photo, you may observe the skunks roasting Gentiles in the sun. The fire that rages in the sun is used as an instrument of torture and death:
ONE MILLION GERMAN PRISONERS ARE SAID TO HAVE BEEN KILLED THIS WAY
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Ninpo
Have you ever noticed how conspiracy nuts think EVERYTHING is a conspiracy.. and NOTHING is truly as it seems. Wonderfull statement bullshitarian. So tell me, in your not so humble eternal opinion, what conspiracies do exist in your little brainwashed mind?
A physician without a knowledge of astrology has no right to call himself a physician - Hippocrates, Fifth Century B.C.
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Ninpo
Sometimes I feel that Dresden and the Tokyo incendiary bombs were proving grounds for the August massacres in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. After a very detailed study of the science of the per-petual traitors, I have begun to see that they work on mutiple levels of existance when using magic in their hoaxes.
A physician without a knowledge of astrology has no right to call himself a physician
- Hippocrates, Fifth Century B.C.
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Ninpo
The blast wave is not unidirectional otherwise it would be a shape charge. Little Boy was not a focused shape charge aiming at the ground only. The radiating energy would race away from the critical mass in even, linear shock waves. COMPLETELY inconsistent with the evidence produced by the experts to support the claim that a successful atomic bomb has ever been produced and dropped on Hiroshima. Interesting.
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Magician
(freedom fighter) 10/07/04 10:50 PM
Enrico Fermi, the physicist who constructed the first atomic reactor, was once asked how smart he thought he was on a scale of 1-100. His answer was, "Einstein is a 100. But I'm a 99." Your attempts to characterize Einstein as stupid and say that he contributed little or nothing to theoretical physics is beyond pitiful. On that same scale you are a -10.
The Lord bless you and keep you The Lord make His face shine upon you and be gracious to you The Lord lift up His countenance onto you and give you peace
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Ninpo
[ To: Magician | Post 293006490, reply to 293006485 ] (Score: 0)
5,999,9993. Damn jew, keep it up. You are on a role tonight.
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Ninpo
[ To: Zaltocleotl | Post 293006506, reply to 292993299 ] (Score: 0)
Gonna tell me that kind of advanced film fakery existed in 1945? It worked on the JFK movie, supruder film...
A physician without a knowledge of astrology has no right to call himself a physician
- Hippocrates, Fifth Century B.C.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/08/04 02:01 AM

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[ To: Ninpo | Post 293006686, reply to 293006448 ] (Score: 1)
using magic in their hoaxes. Here's a neat hoax, a parachute masquerading as a wedding dress
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Elaine (Severeid) Floren, September 24, 1946 in a dress made from parachute that her groom had used to bail out January 13, 1945, Elaine's mother used the white nylon to make a fantastic wedding dress
I guess that's one wedding the groom can't BAIL OUT of, she's wearing the parachute,lol. Cactus rule no.1 beware of ILLUSIONS
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cactus
(rebel) 10/08/04 02:14 AM

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Enrico Fermi, the physicist who constructed the first atomic reactor, was once asked how smart he thought he was on a scale of 1-100. His answer was, "Einstein is a 100. But I'm a 99."
Are you asking me if he really said that? Why wouldn't he?

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Your attempts to characterize Einstein as stupid and say that he contributed little or nothing to theoretical physics is beyond pitiful. No, THIS IS BEYOND PITIFUL:
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On that same scale you are a -10. What do you think are the odds of THAT being true?:
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cactus
(rebel) 10/08/04 02:58 AM

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and NOTHING is truly as it seems
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cactus
(rebel) 10/09/04 03:20 AM
From airpowermuseum.org
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A New Era Japanese military extremists wanted to fight to the end, but Emperor Hirohito accepted the surrender terms, provided the Imperial House could remain intact. The United States, Great Britain, China and the Soviet Union agreed, and Japan surrendered on August 14, 1945. Official declarations of surrender were signed aboard the U.S.S. Missouri on September 2, 1945, in Tokyo Bay. WHY would the Allies accept to keep the Imperial House intact? I thought President Truman said UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER. Unconditionally CONDITIONAL? The President of the United States decides that Japan must surrender unconditionally yet they make it sound like the decision to leave the Imperial House intact was shared by ALL the Allies. I have been hearing stories that the Emperor of Japan made a deal with President Truman over some manhattan drinks in a secret meeting. Reading statements like this does little to disprove THAT.
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"It is my earnest hope, and the hope of all mankind, that out of the blood and carnage a better world will emerge. A world dedicated to the dignity of man, a world dedicated to freedom..."-General Douglas MacArthur, U.S. Army These genocidal maniacs sure spout pretty poetry about concepts THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. Here is an ACCESSORY to the horrific firebombombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and Dresden and Tokyo TALKING ABOUT THE DIGNITY OF MAN. I wish THAT SKUNK were alive to the see this human dignity and BETTER WORLD that emerged from his genocidal purges across the globe.
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The atomic bomb ended a war that killed more than 55 million people. NOT TRUE, INTERNATIONAL JEWERY DECIDES when the war is over IN ANY GIVEN WAR AT ANY GIVEN TIME. The so-called atomic bomb has not prevented millions more deaths since the GENOCIDE MASQUERADING AS SECOND WORLD WAR ENDED.
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The atomic bomb forever changed the rules of war. The so-called atomic weapons DID NOT change the rules of war. The rules of war are still intact , HIM BAD, ME KILL OR BE KILLED. Conventional warfare has been raging across the planet without relent since that day. The only rule of war changed by the so-called ABOMB is that THE WEAPONS CAN BE IMAGINARY AND STILL GET THE JOB DONE.
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It is a weapon so powerful it can annihilate the enemy, a weapon that can destroy humanity itself. Armaggeddon-by-boogeyman. I'll admit that napalm and TNT and other conventional weapons can really mess up big neighborhoods, but, destroy humanity itself, HARDLY. I would agree if he had been making reference to OUR INNER HUMANITY. If we think of the A-BOMB as a tool to destroy humanity we think of GOD-LIKE power over an entire planet when in full proliferation. If people think the skunks can wipe out the entire planet at will THEY MAY BECOME MORE COMPLIANT SLAVES. After all, SLAVERY IS FAR SUPERIOR TO DEATH. So, in this respect, this ABOMB HOAX can destroy our inner humanity. We still live and appear normal on the outside but inside we become fearfull servants to the DEMI-GODS that shower us with merciful compassion by NOT DESTROYING MOTHER EARTH.
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The people who built this "awful weapon" hoped that they had invented a weapon that would put an end to war. The people who projected the ILLUSION THEY HAD THIS AWFUL WEAPON hoped they had imagined a weapon that would SELECTIVELY put an end to HUMANITY'S HOPES FOR THE FUTURE. This HOAX, it was hoped, would reap untold treasures for it's authors. It would also create the fear that the fate of the world is in the hands of THE JEW, so, RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. Just ponder the MINDBOGGLING ARRAY of possibilities if one accepts that the ABOMB IS A HOAX. When you accept the idea that it was a HOAX you can fully understand how it changed the world and our lives. Seeing it for the hoax it is gives one a feeling of freedom and understanding. One thing SEEING THE HOAX will not do is MAKE CONVENTIONAL WARFARE GO AWAY.
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They hoped this new weapon was so awful, so terrifying and so destructive that it would never be used again. The world would never be the same. Public school has been FAR MORE LETHAL weapon against humanity than the ILLUSION OF THE ABOMB ever was because it creates the illusions required to make one lay his precious life down at the asking of the warmongering skunk JEWS in exchange for the so-called paradise of contractual slavery and craddle-to-grave monitoring. Public schools scare me WAY MORE than the BOMB HOAX. At least ABOMBs would destroy the planet and take human suffering with it but public school tortures THE LIVING and this form of torment attacks the resolve required to fight it before it sets in. Public school is a bomb capable of melting down the spririt in small children to remove the desire to resist. Public schools ARE WHAT CHANGED THE NATURE OF WARFARE, not so-called atomic bombs.
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Col. Paul Tibbets, Flight of the Enola Gay The Colonel was VERY WELL KNOWN IN HOLLYWOOD CIRCLES. Actually he was described on one website as a HOLLYWOOD INSIDER. Here is the Internet Movie DataBase file on Tibbets:
I don't think I would put my mother's name to a craft that would deliver death and destruction to hundred's of thousands of women children and soft targets in Hiroshima. I have sat down and poured over tons of NOSE ART that was painted on warplanes from the MARAUDER WARS IN EUROPE to the PACIFIC THEATRE and I simply can't recall any other crew putting THEIR MOTHER's name on a genocide-crate-with-wings.
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"Now, on the return flight, I reflected on the wonders of science and rejoiced that the new weapon had surely made future war unthinkable. Oppenheimer is said to have expressed concern after witnessing the SO-CALLED first atomic blast in the desert of New Mexico. Oppenheimer sais something to the effect that WE HAVE BECOME THE DESTROYERS OF WORLDS. I recall it was a saying from Hindu scriptures. This was a man that had JUST SEEN MASS DESTRUCTIVE POTENTIAL and his words reflected reality as HE SAW IT. Now, Tibbet flies the craft bearing his mother's name to the shores of Japan and whallops the native inhabitants with a firebomb nightmare and he says he felt rejoiceful, Tibbets sounds like ONE SPIRITUALLY HOBBLED SKUNK.
Again, we are confronted by a demented wishful thinker that believes A BIGGER WEAPON will arrest the skunks lust for genocide and profit. WARS HAVE RUN AMOK ACROSS THE WORLD SINCE TIBBET SAID THOSE WORDS.
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Just as the spear had been more deadly than the club, the bow and arrow a more formidable weapon than the spear, gunpowder had made the bow and arrow obsolete. Public school is a weapon that makes critical thought RARE and genocidal maniacs BOLDER. Critical thought is ESSENTIAL in maintaining VIGILENCE and PEACE. Public schools made genocide A LOT EASIER. The prey goes to it's death WITHOUT QUESTION OR PROTEST.
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Each technological advance in weaponry had made war more hideous but so far had not persuaded mankind to abandon this means of settling quarrels between peoples. STILL HASN'T
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Now certainly we had developed the ultimate argument for keeping the peace."--Col. Paul Tibbets, Flight of the Enola Gay This man is BRAINDEAD. Recall that this is the man that FLEW THE PLANE that CARRIED THE FIRST ATOMIC BOMB ever used in combat and he has NOT A SINGLE anecdotal piece to suggest he was EVER EMOTIONALLY CONNECTED TO THE ACT HE COMMITTED, not a word about his nervous state in flying with such a precious cargo onboard, his fears for his own life, his thoughts on DEMONSTRATIONS INSTEAD OF REAL USE, things like that. Words on the victims below etc. Tibbets sounds LIKE HE WAS NOT EVEN THERE AT ALL. The HOAX CROSSWALKS will be examining this MORE CLOSELY in the future, we shall see.
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Tintin
(skeptic) 10/13/04 06:17 AM
I'm a real conspiracy theorist. But that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings are a hoax is just too much. I hold the Holocaust as a hoax. And I suppose that it is hold by the general public as even wilder. So I regard it as my duty to examine your arguments.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/13/04 09:36 AM

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[ To: Tintin | Post 293020682, reply to 293020195 ] (Score: 1)
I'm a real conspiracy theorist. Nothing criminal in that.

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But that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings are a hoax is just too much. Mind boggling actually.
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I hold the Holocaust as a hoax. Basically this is correct. I doubt you will ever have cause to regret having held this belief.
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And I suppose that it is hold by the general public as even wilder. Could be.
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So I regard it as my duty to examine your arguments. I wish many more would. Your scrutiny is welcome and I will do my best to answer any questions or doubts you may have on the premise of this thread or my stated opinions. Precisely what would you like to look at first?
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cactus
(rebel) 10/13/04 10:57 AM
On May 18, 1974, India detonated what they were calling an atomic bomb. This subterranean blast was performed in a VERY ISOLATED setting at Pokhran in the Thar Desert of the province of Rajasthan India. India had become the sixth nation to explode a so-called atomic bomb. Seeing as how the genocidal maniacs like to portray their worst deeds into cute slogans, the
India blast was no exception. Trying to find the reasoning behind these slogans is just as hard as finding the exact person that decided to use the slogan in the first place. In military parlance they are called CODE NAMES, not slogans. The Americans had THE LITTLE BOY (small child) for the firebombing of Hiroshima (as if this were not odd enough, one of the pilots of the craft that delivered Little Boy to the target decided to name the plane after his MOTHER, the other pilot onboard got into a fight with Tibbits over this decision) the Americans had their FAT MAN (obese person) for Nagasaki and the Russians had their TSAR BOMBA (named in accordance with a Russian proclivity for making gigantic but useless artifacts). The Indians called their's "THE BUDDHA IS SMILING". One thing I know for certain is that I have NEVER EVER seen a smiling Buddha in vacation, magazine photos or EVEN CARTOONS. So, what's up with that, why the weird name? Same with the Russians, why describe something ALREADY HARD TO BELIEVE with a dumbass name like that? I guess it's pretty obvious why no one comes forward to take exclusive credit for coining those rediculous CODE NAMES. The BUDDHA IS SMILING blast was said to be a 20KT (kiloton) implosion design similar to the one used over Nagasaki (Fatman) and GROUND ZERO was 170 meters below the surface. Some reports say the blast was not a complete success and the yield was more like 8KT instead of the predicted 20KT. Recall this same contradiction in the plutonium implosion bomb used on the city of Nagasaki in Japan in 1945. The yield had been expected to surpass Hiroshima's 20KT bomb capacity YET IT CAME IN WAY UNDER IT'S EXPECTED YIELD (estimated 10KT). The plutonium core assembly (code named FLOWER) had 6KG (kilograms) of weapon's grade plutonium at it's center. If memory serves me well, this is the same core weight as Nagasaki's plutonium implosion bomb. Nagasaki was in 1945 and India went nuclear in 1974 so thats almost an even 30 years progress in design yet the yield is worst than Nagasaki (which itself had been an underperformer) with basically the same core dimensions and, one would hope, futuristic improvements in yield and performance. Odd contradiction. Another interesting contradiction is to be found in the comparitive blast forensics. Below I will post some pictures of the Indian blast and the New Mexico test of the plutonium implosion bomb. Note that the SMILING BUDDHA blast was 107 meters underground. In other words the blast wave has to penetrate 107 meters of earth, rock, and/or sediment before it can express itself at the surface in any noticable manner. 107 METERS IS PRETTY DEEP. Now, examine the surface photos of the India test site and see the damage. Now recall that some said it was only 8KT. Next, see the photo of Oppenheimer and General Groves having a chat under the spot where the plutonium implosion test in the New Mexico desert occured. That test device was detonated from a tower 100 feet above the ground and it was reported to have a yield of 20KT. These two men are standing where a huge crater should be and the ground should be glassified. Look at the large crater made at the surface of a blast of inferior force in India and recall that this blast wave had to travel through a LOT OF EARTH to make a surface statement like that. Now look at ground zero of the New Mexico blast and ask how it is possible that the reinforcing bars sitting under an atomic blast 100 feet overhead were not instantly vaporized. The contradictions run wild in these comparisons. You be the judge;
THE "BUDDHA IS SMILING" SHOT, NOTE THE CRATER SIZE COMPARED TO ROAD
170 METERS BELOW THE SURFACE
NEW MEXICO DESERT USA, WHERE'S THE CRATER? WHY AREN'T THE METAL BARS VAPORIZED? (plutonium implosion 100 feet overhead)
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Tintin
(skeptic) 10/13/04 04:22 PM
Well, Cactus, I've done my duty. I've just read through the thread. There are hoaxes out there, but this is certainly not one of them. You have crossed the line of sanity here. The only and simplest answer to all this, is that the A-bomb is real Why complicate things? When there is such a simple answer already at hand.
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cactus
(rebel) 10/13/04 05:57 PM

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[ To: Tintin | Post 293022303, reply to 293022090 ] (Score: 1)
Well, Cactus, I've done my duty. What else can one do?
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I've just read through the thread.
You are welcome to read it as many times as you wish.

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There are hoaxes out there, but this is certainly not one of them. Are you suggesting that you have evidence to prove the existance of atomic bombs?
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You have crossed the line of sanity here Wrong, we are crossing the line of TRUTH here. I understand that the truth can be confusing and angering at times and it is often easier to adopt a pragmatic attitude in historical revisionism to streamline the management of lies. The number of hoaxes revealed and their frequencies have nothing to do with pragmatism and don't choose the time nor the number of truths that will be exposed at any given time. Perhaps you are the type of person that likes his/her hoaxes exposed in an orderly manner and well spaced across the decades. IT DOES NOT ALWAYS HAPPEN THIS WAY. Sometimes the speed at which the truth assaults the lies is very hard to reconciliate with the lifestyles adopted while under the influences of multiple hoaxes. For this reason alone many people will not wake from the illusions because doing so could harm them. Something like when NEO took the pill and found the truth, it was excruciating for him because he was close to this point in his life of illusions that he could have been risky to bring back to reality.
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The only and simplest answer to all this, is that the A-bomb is real The evidence at my disposal at this time would suggest otherwise.
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Why complicate things? The illusions ARE WHAT IS COMPLICATING THINGS, the truth will make (set) you free Tintin.
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When there is such a simple answer already at hand. And that answer would be?
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cactus
(rebel) 10/13/04 06:29 PM
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cactus
(rebel) 10/15/04 09:24 PM
I have imported this piece from THIS WEBSITE to discuss it's content as it applies to this discussion and take another look at the surprising number of inconsistencies from one version of this story to the next. I am not saying that the website in question was intentionally misleading the public, only to contrast this information with other existing stories to find the common threads and find the truth. As always I feel these bombs are hoaxes. Where I appear to be describing some elements of this story as someone that believes the bombs are real I do so to place the comment or opinion in context. This way we can explore the viability of the A Bomb from both opposing perspectives. The illusion HAS TO MAKE SENSE TOO.
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The Atomic Bomb Last revised July 27, 2000 The B-29 is perhaps best remembered today as the aircraft which delivered the atomic bombs which destroyed the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, bringing the war in the Pacific to an end. Funny how they do not come to mind as THE INSTRUMENTS THAT DROPPED MILLIONS OF METRIC TONS OF HIGH EXPLOSIVES OVER 10s OF THOUSANDS OF BOMB RAIDS performed on a VAST ARRAY OF GROUND TARGETS. I like to think of the B-29 as the aircraft that introduced THE ABOMB HOAX.
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The idea for the explosive release of nuclear energy by means of an uncontrollable chain reaction was basically due to the Hungarian theoretical physicist Leo Szilard. He seems to have come up with the idea during a sudden inspiration he had while crossing a London street on September 12, 1933. For the longest time I have wondered what difference it makes WHERE THE GUY GOT HIS IDEA. Is his idea more credible because he did not have it while showering? What difference would it make if he had this idea while having sex? If he had this idea while having sex would the skunk media say he was crossing a London street, LOL? Leo Szilard was so convincing with his harebrained conceptions that his collegues avoided him and Szilard, in the end, had to turn to his old buddy Einstein. Mr. Szilard was not preoccupied if people wondered why Einstein WAS NOT his first choice of buddies. Whatever idea Szilard had is not clearly explained, how difficult can it be to imagine ways of leeching uranium? How difficult could it have been for a physicist of his standing to figure how much refined uranium would be required to achieve critical mass? Implosion devices were in the
mind OF NO ONE at Szilard's time of devine intuition, so he must have made a breakthrough in SOME DESIGN ELEMENT OF THE SIMPLE URANIUM HAMMER. I will keep digging but I fail to see how Szilard fits into the big picture, like, what did he find that was so great? What did he find that was SO COMPLICATED Einstein had to shorten it before submitting it to the FINANCIER THAT WOULD SHOW IT TO THE PRESIDENT?
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Alarmed at German progress in nuclear fission research, a group of scientists persuaded Albert Einstein to write a letter to President Franklin Roosevelt to warn him that a weapon of unprecedented power was now within the realm of possibility. Alarmed that the Germans might come up with the bomb first, the United States secretely began a massive bomb development program named the Manhattan Project. According to the information at my disposal it would appear that Hitler did NOT HAVE THIS TYPE OF DISCRETIONARY POWER and IF HE HAD he was more in favor, at least this was the public impression he was making, of using peaceful nuclear fission for the production of cheap, abundant electricity. If someone asked me I would say that HITLER WOULD HAVE BURIED THE WEAPONIZED USE OF ATOMIC ENERGY. Hitler may have also thoroughly cleansed the ranks of potential leaks. Destroyed the scientific papers etc, something to this effect. In accordance with this belief that HITLER HAD NO DISCRETIONARY POWER one must find the true power at work. The power at work behind the scenes of the war theatres and the powers behind the creation of the antagonisms and divisions that lead to war we find important financiers and special interest magnates that have a bird's eye view of the toll and profit of armed conflict. I think it is these same type of persons and concerns that put together the ABomb hoax and they also KNEW THAT HITLER DID NOT HAVE THE SLIGHTEST INTENTION OF ACQUIRING OR EXPLOITING SUCH INSTRUMENTS OF WAR.
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In his letter to President Roosevelt on August 2, 1939, suggesting that an atomic bomb be developed, Albert Einstein feared that the bomb might very well prove too heavy for transport by air. However, estimates indicated that the weapon was well within the capacity of the B-29, which in September of 1943 was selected as its carrier. At first, the team responsible for the adaptation of the B-29 to the atomic bomb would only be provided with rough dimensions of the bomb, since even the scientists were not yet sure what it would look like. The technicians fitted a new H-frame hoist, carrier assembly and release unit to the B-29. Recall that this is a LETTER WORDED TO IMPRESS THE VIABILITY OF A NUCLEAR BOMB ON A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES and note that Einstien SHORTENED THE LETTER. Note also how they are prematurely planning aircraft fabrication and modification schedules before HAVING TESTED THE DEVICE. In fact, they never fully tested Little Boy before delivering it to the target. TALK ABOUT CONFIDENCE, LOL.
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The first drop tests using dummy bombs were carried out at Muroc, California on February 28, 1944. These lead to the fitting of an entirely new suspension mechanism to the B-29. Tests resumed in June of 1944 and after modifications were made a contract was awarded to a firm in Omaha, Nebraska to produced three more modified B-29s. By August, the Omaha firm had completed a total of 46 nuclear-capable B-29s. This is a fact we rarely read about. It is well known that LITTLE BOY WAS NEVER TESTED but this paragraph would suggest otherwise. Droppability HAD TO BE a major consideration in design so, technically, the tests of dummy bombs (modelled after the real one) become the TESTING OF LITTLE BOY. So, it can be said that Little Boy was PARTIALLY tested before initial use in the theatre of war. Let's see if I read this correctly, they fitted an entirely new suspension mechanism to THE B-29 and the Omaha firm produced (3) more modified B-29s. We are in June 1944 here, the implosion device is not even on the drawing board yet so, the (3) specially fitted B-29 HAD to be for the Little Boy design. Why 3? Odd number, why not 5? By August of '44 the Omaha firm had built 46 nuclear capable B-29s! Was the U.S. getting ready to NUKE THE PLANET? How did they know the B-29 WOULD EVEN BE AROUND AND IN SERVICE by the time the U.S. had built it's 46 th atomic bomb? Curious rules of planning, rather wasteful TOO.
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The atomic bomb program had followed two separate tracks. One was the development of isotope separation techniques to produce large samples of uranium enriched in the fissionable
U235 isotope. The other was the development of techniques for the large-scale production of the artificially-produced element plutonium. The uranium bomb was known as Little Boy and was 120 inches long, 28 inches in diameter, and weighed about 9000 pounds. It was essentially a long cannon with a U235 bullet and three U235 target rings fitted to its muzzle. The chain reaction was initiated by explosively forcing U235 bullet and target together. The plutonium bomb was known as Fat Man and was 60 inches in diameter 128 inches long, and weighed about 10,000 pounds. It had a plutonium shell with an array of shaped charges wrapped around it. When these shaped charges were simultaneously fired, the plutonium was forced violently inward and compressed, starting the chain reaction. The isotope separation processes were UNDER STRICT HIGH SECRECY PROTOCOLS. High secrecy is something like TOP SECRET with an NSA (National Security Agency) componant. ALL THE WORK WAS COMPARTMENTALIZED and many knew nothing about THE NEXT GUYS FUNCTION within these plants. Although these protocols of compartmentalization were reported to have been designed to enhance security, they do so by keeping everyone ignorant of the other's duties and responsibilities. With A SHROUD OF SECRECY LIKE THAT YOU CAN EFFECTIVELY PRODUCE MIRACLE-LEVEL ILLUSIONS. Very hard to verify.
Note how liberal they are with the expression "SPONTANEOUSLY FIRED". They make it sound ROUTINE.IT IS VERY FAR FROM ROUTINE.
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A special crew training program had been initiated under the command of Colonel Paul W. Tibbets, Jr. Col. Tibbets was a veteran of B-17 operations in Europe and North Africa and had been involved in B-29 flight test operations. In September 1944, Colonel Tibbets took over the command of the newly-activated 509th Composite Group at an air base near Wendover, Utah. It had only one Bombardment Squadron--the 393rd commanded by Major Charles W. Sweeney. The 509th Composite Group was a completely self-sufficient unit, with its own engineer, material, and troop squadrons as well as its own military police unit. Since the Manhattan project was carried out in an atmosphere of high secrecy, the vast majority of the officers and men of the 509th Composite Group were completely ignorant of its intended mission. See how Mr. Hollywood insider (Col Tibbets) has plenty of autonomy and discretionary power. You CAN TELL THE GUY'S IN CHARGE. Their own military police, supplies, etc. The only other group present became responsible for the Nagasaki firebombing raid (they said it was nuclear). Note also how the VAST MAJORITY of the officers and men of the 509th Composite Group were completely ignorant of it's intended mission. This is the principal beef that I have with HIGH SECRECY PROTOCOLS is that it makes these unbelievable hoaxes possible. You can see these secrecy protocols everywhere in our societies. You see the secrecy laws shrouding the truth in CHILD CUSTODY CASES where much fraud and torture is occurring. Hidden by the GAG CULTURE of the criminally sophisticated types. The ABOMB was made a reality in GREAT PART because of THE HIGH SECRECY LAWS IN EFFECT. No one will go up against THAT TYPE OF SECRECY and expect to come out of it without being arrested for treason. Anyways, this Col Tibbet's is NOT A MARGINAL PLAYER AT ALL.
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The 509th CG was deployed overseas in the spring of 1945. The 509th was formally a part of XXI Bombardment Command based in the Marianas. By July, the bombers were established at North Field on Tinian, which had just been completed for the 313th Bombardment Wing. Some of them were fitted with Curtiss electric propellers which had reversible pitch to reduce the landing run and carried special blade cuffs to increase the flow of cooling air into the R-3350 engines. This deployment overseas to the Tinian Islands in the spring of 1945 did not compomise the close-knit group that was the 509th nor did it introduce public variables (nosey people). The deployment to Tinian was LEAK-PROOF. Just to point out that THEY DID NOT NEED VERY MANY CONSPIRATORS TO PULL THE SCAM. Any lose ends could be recovered with the HIGH
SECURITY PROTOCOLS. Killing is justified to these freaks when they perceive grave upsets to the streamlining of their scams. Witnesses are present TO CORROBORATE THE OFFICIAL STORY, not to formulate alternative theories and I TRUST THEY ARE PROMPTLY REMINDED when required.
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The first test of an atomic bomb took place on July 16, 1945 at Alamogordo in the New Mexico desert. The news was immediately given to President Harry Truman, who was at the time at the Allied conference at Potsdam. He immediately informed Winston Churchill and Chiang kai-Shek of the success, but told Stalin only that the United States had developed a new and powerful weapon for use against Japan. The United States ALREADY HAD what they considered an A Bomb in Little Boy yet the president is announcing the FAT MAN test blast as the FIRST US ATOM BOMB. Why didn't they get hot and eager when they developed the uranium hammer type bomb and call up the allies and everything? It is odd to see the Hiroshima bomb itself fade in and out of the historical line-of-sight. Sometimes Little Boy is the FIRST ATOMIC BOMB then another time the Alamagordo blast IS DESCRIBED AS THE FIRST. Contradiction rears it's ugly head once more.
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However, Soviet agents in the USA had already passed the word to the USSR about the Manhattan Project, and Stalin was fully aware of what was going on. On July 26, the Allies issued a joint declaration which called for the unconditional surrender of Japan, indicating that the only alternative was prompt and utter destruction. Exactly what this meant was not specified, The fate of the Emperor was also left ambiguous, and was not mentioned in the declaration. Soviet agents, if they did not already know, were passing along the PLANS TO THE HOAX. I don't know for sure if Stalin thought the bomb was a hoax but I feel very strongly that he must have played along with THE BOYS and pretended the bombs had worked out fine, deluding himself and terribly amusing those THAT KNOW THEY DON"T WORK. Imagine you have been capturing sensitive math and plans for a radical new weapon only to fail to make it work, WOULD A WORLD LEADER COME FORWARD AND ADMIT THE PLANS THEY STOLE FIZZLED OUT WHEN PUT INTO PRACTICE? Human nature would dictate that the victim would cover-up the failures with STAGED FIELD TEST SUCCESSES to hide the humiliation of BEING HAD. I think the truth will find a MORE COMPLEX situation at work at that time but for now it is interesting to explore the possibilities AT THIS LEVEL in this ABOMB thread. After over a thousand coordinated B-29 firebombing raids over their cities in very little time I don't think the Japanese NEEDED TO BE SPECIFIED what the Allies meant by PROMPT and UTTER destruction. They did not need the atom bomb to believe the veracity of THAT THREAT. Some written literature has been critical of the Emperors role in all this. It may turn out that the Emperor's role in this whole story may need to be looked at again. I am keeping A VERY OPEN MIND with regards to THE EMPEROR OF JAPAN in 1945.
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President Truman was fully aware of the projections of appalling American casualties should it be necessary to invade Japan (a half-million casualties were estimated), and had no hesitation in authorizing the use of the new weapon in getting the Japanese to surrender. On July 24, a directive was sent to General Carl A. Spaatz ordering the 509th to deliver its first atomic bomb as soon as weather would permit. The cities of Hiroshima, Kokura, Niigata and Nagasaki were potential targets. Truman gave his final go-ahead from Potsdam on July 31. Not a word here of a spectacular demonstration to END THE WAR and save MORE LIVES. What is it about these DEMONSTRATIONS that they MUST STAY IN THE FAMILY so-tospeak? Anytime it has to do with presenting these weapons in ways that the public can understand them they MUST KILL HUNDRED'S OF THOUSANDS TO MAKE THE POINT. If they really think that public testing IS NOT CONVINCING ENOUGH HOW THEN CAN THE HIGH SECRECY GOVERNMENT TESTING BE CONCLUSIVE? Another odd contradiction. THEY NEVER WANT TO TEST OUTSIDE THE SHROUD OF NATIONAL SECRECY LAWS.
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The cruiser Indianapolis had delivered the Little Boy guns and bullet assembly to Tinian on July 26. C-54s delivered the three separate pieces of the Little Boy target assembly, and other C-54s delivered Fat Man's initiator and plutonium core. Three B-29s left Kirtland, each carrying a Fat Man high-explosive preassembly. These did not arrive until August 2. Everything COMPARTMENTALIZED. Pure hoax.
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Little Boy was ready for delivery by July 31. On August 2, LeMay's staff specified Hiroshima as the primary target, with Kokura and Nagasaki as alternates. Hiroshima was chosen because intelligence reports had indicated that there were no Allied POW camps located there. This is a clear contradiction of THE TARGET COMMITTEE selection of KYOTO as PRIMARY target and HIROSHIMA as SECONDARY target. Hiroshima was chosen FOR ITS VOLATILITY TO FIRE AND NAPALM. The intellectual degree of the inhabitants was considered by The Target Committee as an important targetting criteria and, although they never specifically said so, they scrubbed Kyoto because the population WAS INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO SEE THROUGH THE HOAX AND GET THE MESSAGE OUT TO THE WORLD. This is the first I have heard of Nagasaki ever being considered a target on the Hiroshima run. Must be that" CONFUSE THEM " strategy of HOAX REINFORCEMENT AND MANAGEMENT. "NO POW CAMPS!", thats new too. Here the HOAX CROSSWALKS notes a crossover to the Holocaust hoax where POW CAMPS ARE NOT BOMBED. It's a myth but it offers a good cover to THE REFUGEES OF WAR. Many wondered why the Allies never bombed the concentration camps TO REMOVE FROM HITLER HIS INSTRUMENT OF GENOCIDE AND SAVE LIVES. Why not sacrifice a few thousand to save millions? BECAUSE THEY WERE WORK CAMPS MASQUERADING AS POW CAMPS. Many considerations must have been pondered before MAKING THE MOVE on Japan but I think POW camps was NOT ONE OF THEM.
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The raid was set for August 6, and Col Tibbets was to command the attacking B-29. On the day before the mission, his plane (a Martin-Omaha-built B-29-45-MO serial number 44-86292) had been painted with the name Enola Gay, after his mother. No one ever came forward to claim fame for airbrushing this logo onto the nose of that B-29. No one came forward to claim fame for the artwork itself. Who are these mystery people?
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The attack began with a flight of three special reconnaissance F-13As which took off to report the weather over the primary and secondary targets. Col. Tibbets followed in Enola Gay an hour later, accompanied by two other B-29s which would observe the drop. While on the way to Japan, Major Claude Eatherly, flying Straight Flush, radioed that Hiroshima was clear for a visual bomb drop. Navy weapons expert Captain William Parsons armed the bomb while in flight, as it was deemed too dangerous to do this on the ground at North Field, lest an accident happen and the bomb go off, wiping out the entire base. As I have said before and is further confirmed by this paragraph, that a napalm raid over Hiroshima could be accomplished with three(3) B-29s. This passage contradicts the story told about the KYOTO target being overcast and the mission diverted to SECONDARY HIROSHIMA. Contradictions run wild in this ABOMB HOAX. Colonel Tibbets never said a word about fear for his personal safety while in the company of THE BOMB. In fact, many have said that the uranium hammer design IS VERY SAFE and near impossible to detonate accidentally. A lot of romanticisim floats around THE AWESOME POWER and WHAT IF IT WENT OFF NEAR YOU. The guys working at Tinian never said much about FEAR FOR THEIR PERSONAL SAFETY while around THE BOMB.
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At 8:15AM, the Enola Gay released Little Boy from an altitude of 31,500 feet. The radar fuse on the bomb had been preset to go off at an altitude of 2000 feet above the ground. In the ensuing explosion, 75,000 people were killed and 48,000 buildings were destroyed. Here again you are told the HOUR WAS 8:15 AM. Observe the mushroom cloud picture for Hiroshima that was circulated at the time and ask why the NOON-TIME SUN IS STRIKING THE MUSHROOM CLOUD DIRECTLY OVERHEAD.
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President Truman announced the dropping of the atomic bomb to the nation. At first, the Japanese did not know exactly what had happened, and poor communications between Tokyo and the devastated Hiroshima did not help. Even in spite of the bomb, there were still some Japanese officers who wanted the war to continue on to the bitter end. This confusion on the part of the Japanese was NO CONFUSION AT ALL. They had been firebombed thousands of times by B-29s raids before, during, and after the HIRO/NAGA combination blasts. The reason the Japanese did not understand the difference IS THAT THERE WAS NO DIFFERENCE. Hiroshima and Nagasaki had both likely wreaked the odor of spent gasoline and napalm fumes. I think the Japanese people WERE CONFUSED BY THE A BOMB STORIES, they could not distinguish the damage of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with that of the thousands of other cities bombed to saturation with flammable ordinance. The confusion WAS NOT WITH THE FIREBOMBING, people could SEE THAT, it was the weird ATOM BOMB twist to these stories they could not understand.
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On August 8, Foreign Minister Shigenori Togo informed the Emperor that total destruction awaited Japan if it did not accept the terms of the Potsdam Declaration and surrender. The Emperor agreed with this gloomy assessment and Togo dispatched the Emperor's message to the Prime Minister, Baron Kantaro Suzuki, who was unable to convene the Supreme War council until the next day. This passage contradicts the story whereby Japan WANTED TO SURRENDER MANY YEARS BEFORE THE HIROSHIMA BOMB BUT WERE NOT PERMITTED TO. I don't trust the Emperor nor do I trust any of his cabinet and Generals. It is possible that he is nothing more than a skunk-in-emperor's clothing that sold out the lives and confidence of his people at the alter of political advantage and expediency and perhaps personal monetary gain. Time will tell.
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While the Japanese government was debating its options, there was no letup with the conventional B-29 raids. B-29s from the 58th, 73rd, and 313th BWs hit the Toyokawa Arsenal the next day. On the night of August 7, the 525th BG dropped 189 tons of mines on several different targets. On August 8, the 58th, 73rd, and 313th BWs dropped incendiary bombs on targets at Yawata in the southern island of Kyushu. At the same time, the 314th BW hit an industrial area of Tokyo. The Japanese defenses were still effective enough to down four B-29s during the Yawata raid and three at Tokyo. How are people supposed to see the difference between ALL THESE CLUSTER F*CKS and ATOM BOMBS? To the victims in Japan the DIFFERENCE WAS NON-EXISTANT for all practical purposes.
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In the meantime, since there was still no official reaction from Japan, the Americans felt that there was no alternative but to prepare a second atomic attack. The plutonium bomb "Fat Man" was loaded into a B-29 known as Bockscar (Martin-Omaha built B-29-35-MO serial number 4427297, the name often misspelled as Bock's Car), named after its commander, Capt. Frederick C. Bock. However, on this mission, the aircraft was flown by Major Sweeney, with Capt. Bock flying
one of the observation planes. The primary target was to be Kokura Arsenal, with Nagasaki as the alternative. I wonder why Capt. Bock was not flying his aircraft that day? Why would he be assigned a sidelines role in that historic moment? Again we find contradiction as to the targets but this time it is the Bockscar schedule that is contradictory. I have not read every scrap of history ever written about the atomic bomb especially where it is question of the Nagasaki bombing but I don't ever recall hearing that the KOKURA ARSENAL was the PRIMARY TARGET on this occasion. To me it was CLEARLY Nagasaki at every turn. They may have had SECONDARY TERGETS but I don't recall which they were if they existed in those plans at all.
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Bockscar took off on August 9, with Fat Man on board. This time, the primary target of Kokura was obscured by dense smoke left over from the earlier B-29 raid on nearby Yawata, and the bombardier could not pinpoint the specified aiming point despite three separate runs. So Sweeney turned to the secondary target, Nagasaki. There were clouds over Nagasaki as well, and a couple of runs over the target had to be made before the bombardier could find an opening in the clouds. At 11:00 AM, Fat Man was released from the aircraft and the bomb exploded. The yield was estimated at 22 kilotons. Approximately 35,000 people died at Nagasaki in the immediate blast. Other places say that the yield was under par (not as would be expected) and the blast at Nagasaki was 10 kilotons. At best, if one believes the bombs were real, questions arise as to why the IMPROVED DESIGN OF FAT MAN underperformed it's predessessor, the more simplistic LITTLE BOY? What was the American public getting for it's atomic dollar if more sophistication and expense translates into inferior performance? I think it is a hoax but those that don't should seriously seek to answer these nagging questions. The death count varies WILDLY from one information source to the next. The estimated yields play up and down games to suit whatever purpose it is hoped will be obtained by this form of manipulation.
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After releasing the bomb, Sweeney was forced to divert to Okinawa because of a problem with a fuel transfer pump. He borrowed some fuel and returned to Tinian. Interesting if terribly brief. Who did he BORROW FUEL from?
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That very same day, the Soviet Union had declared war on Japan, and launched a massive invasion of Manchuria. The Emperor ordered that the government accept the Allied terms of surrender at once. It took time for the full details to be worked out, and there was a very real danger that some elements of the Japanese military would still not accept surrender and would attempt a coup even against the Emperor. In the meantime conventional bombing of Japanese targets still continued, with a record number of 804 B-29s hitting targets in Japan on August 14. On the morning of August 15, the Emperor broadcasted word of Japan's surrender in a address to his nation. Most of his subjects had never heard his voice before. Why so many POST-ATOM BOMB fireboming raids? Were not the atom bombs the ARGUMENTS TO END ALL ARGUMENTS? I think the Japanese plain folk simply refused to buy into the atom bomb boogeyman and considered Hiroshima and Nagasaki as "firebombed" cities. I think the local folk in Hiroshima and Nagasaki SMELLED THE FUEL IN THE AIR after the so-called atomic blasts. Who would have listened to them if they came forward at the time and said the truth? Would the media have embraced their courage and led the charge for justice and truth, I don't think so. I suppose any REAL THREATS to the hoaxes would have VERY SHORT LIFE EXPECTANCIES. 804 B-29s performed record breaking carnage-by-firebombing on August 14, 1945, just days after the second so-called atomic bombs had struck Japan. That's WAY MORE DAMAGE THAN NAGASAKI AND HIROSHIMA COMBINED yet you only hear about the 2 hoax bombs all the time. It's like that lamenting for 6 million uncertain deaths compared with a certified 50 million others at that no one ever hears about. It's always about WHAT THE JEW WANTS YOU TO SEE. In Hiroshima and Nagasaki you never saw the other carnage because the other carnage was NOT PROPPING A HOAX. Maybe in a small collateral way but not the decisive factor in making the hoax a reality in the minds of those that would be bled dry to pay for them. Same with the SIX MILLION OF THE NAZIS CONCENTRATION CAMPS, you only see what the JEW needs you to see to understand his ransom demands, the other 50 million dead are irrevlevant in THAT FORMULA.
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All further offensive operations against Japan ceased after the Emperor's broadcast. After that time, most of the B-29s in the Pacific were diverted to missions of mercy, dropping food and clothing to thousands of Allied prisoners of war held in Japan, China, Manchuria, and Korea. 1066 B-29s participated in 900 missions to 154 camps. Some 63,500 prisoners were provided with 4470 tons of supplies These flights cost eight B-29s lost with 77 crew members aboard. If one considers the rape and general mayhem committed by the troops that stayed behind to choke Japan's healing process and control her destiny one could say that OFFENSIVE OPERATIONS AGAINST JAPAN NEVER LET UP.
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The surrender was formally signed on September 2 aboard the battleship Missouri, bringing the Pacific War to an end. The curtain draws leaving the audience with a powerful illusion of a weapon that never existed. The tap was open and the stage was set for a Cold War nuclear proliferation that would bend the backs of the working masses to the breaking point. A big cash funnel made possible by the excruciating suffering of ritualistically murdered masses of people. Bathed in rivers of ignited napalm and gasoline for the purpose of anchoring an illusion into the minds of the easily impressed and state-fearing public.
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After it was retired from service, the Enola Gay was donated to the Smithsonian Institution. For many years, it was held in storage at the Paul Garber Restoration Facility at Suitland, Maryland. In recent years, it has undergone a significant restoration effort so that it could be displayed in public to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the dropping of the first atomic bomb. However, a bitter political controversy developed around the exact details of how the display was to be carried out. As it turned out, only the fuselage of the aircraft was actually displayed. In the context of the information put forth at the website where this text originated I find it interesting that the authors would choose to bring up the question of a so-called bitter political controversy without giving further details. I would understand if they had described it as "a political controversy" and left it at that but calling it a "BITTER political controversy" without more. I am glad the author made reference to it but wonder why further details were left out. Makes you wonder what kind of bitter political controversy can erupt from the question of how to present the aircraft that delivered the first so-called atomic bomb to a 50th anniversary celebration? That they left the "fuselage only" on display invites further inquiry into the political controversy in question. Were the hoaxsters worried that some detail on the plane might attract negative attention? If so why is it not a question where it is normally on display at the Smithsonian?
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Bockscar is on display at the USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton, Ohio. These two aircraft are remarkable feats of engineering and if I were a rich tycoon I would buy an restored original to fly personally. As a lover of aircraft I can understand the nostalgia one must feel after spending a lot of time up there in a B-29. I guess its not the airplane's fault if a handful of skunks decided to use them as as instruments of death and horror. I wonder if these pilots ever truly understood what they were doing, in terms of raw human suffering I mean? Sources: (FOR THE SOURCE ARTICLE) Warbird History--B-29 Superfortress, Chester Marshall, Motorbooks International, 1993. The Boeing B-29 Superfortress, Mich Mayborn, Aircraft in Profile, Doubleday, 1969. B-29 Superfortress, John Pimlott, Gallery Books, 1980. Famous Bombers of the Second World War, William Green, Doubleday, 1960. Jane's Fighting Aircraft of World War II, Bill Gunston, Military Press, 1989. Boeing Aircraft Since 1916, Peter M. Bowers, Naval Institute Press, 1989. United States Military Aircraft Since 1909, Gordon Swanborough and Peter M. Bowers, Smithsonian Institution Press, 1989.
Jane's Fighting Aircraft of World War II, Bill Gunston, Military Press, 1989. American Combat Planes, Third Enlarged Edition, Ray Wagner, Doubleday, 1982. The Making of the Atomic Bomb, Richard Rhodes, Simon and Schuster, 1986. Truman, David McCullough, Simon and Schuster, 1992. Telephone conversation with Ben Jordan with correction of spelling of name of Nagasaki airplane.
Post Extras:
cactus
(rebel) 10/18/04 12:27 PM
From THIS website. Again some material imported to this thread to give the issue of THE A BOMB HOAX more depth and exposure. I have added my opinions AND MORE in the hopes of giving the reader more insight into THE CONTRADICTIONS THAT ABOUND in the ABOMB HOAX. AGAIN, for those that are sensitive to criticism of Jews and Israel THIS THREAD HAS MATERIAL that IS CRITICAL of the Jew and the Jew's participation in the promulgation of these collections of illusions FOR PROFIT AND TO ADVANCE THE CULTURE OF MATERIAL INTERESTS AND GENOCIDE.
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The Israeli nuclear weapons program grew out of the conviction that the Holocaust justified any measures Israel took to ensure its survival. Everything under the sun became justified once they had THE 6 MILLION "GASSED" RACKET into full gear.
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Consequently, Israel has been actively investigating the nuclear option from its earliest days. In 1949, HEMED GIMMEL a special unit of the IDF's Science Corps, began a two-year geological survey of the Negev desert with an eye toward the discovery of uranium reserves. Although no significant sources of uranium were found, recoverable amounts were located in phosphate deposits. Canada HAD PLENTY OF URANIUM, all they had to do was TAKE IT. The Russians and Africans HAD PLENTY OF URANIUM TOO. Funny how LITTLE ISRAEL was going to process it's own raw uranium when IT TOOK THE RESOURCES OF A SUPERPOWER to finance the ISOTOPE SEPARATION PROCESS IN THE STATES. Was Israel aiming for the LITTLE BOY design or the FAT MAN type bomb? Where is ISRAEL GETTING THE MONEY FOR THIS? Note also how Israel wishes to project the illusion that THE WORLD IS AGAINST THEIR PLANS FOR ACQUISITION OF THE SO_CALLED BOMB. As if the U.S. or other nations aside from France would not give them what they needed and ask for to get their BOMB PROJECT INTO PRODUCTION.Why not simply buy a nuke pre-built from the United States which THEY CONTROLLED POLITICALLY AT THIS POINT? People in the early 1900s were already saying THE JEWS CONTROLLED THE STATES.
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The program took another step forward with the creation of the Israel Atomic Energy Commission (IAEC) in 1952. Its chairman, Ernst David Bergmann, had long advocated an Israeli bomb as the best way to ensure "that we shall never again be led as lambs to the slaughter." How anyone can perceive proliferation of nuclear weapons AS THE BEST MEANS TO AVOID FUTURE CALAMITIES is hard for me to understand. The JEWS KNOW PERFECTLY WELL that they have been expelled and shunned for centuries, often asked formally to leave the countries where their evil has been identified. Knowing that they are TOTALLY INCAPABLE of keeping the peace with their neighbors, THEY OPT FOR THE NUCLEAR ARMAMENT IN THE COUNTRY THEY HAVE HIJACKED AND HAVE TERRORIZED FOR DECADES TO DATE. Sounds a little self destructive. I always wondered WHY THE ISRAELI DID NOT FEAR FOR NUCLEAR SUICIDE BOMBERS.
H-912 transport container for Mk-54 SADM Portable Backpack Nuke I don't wonder any more now that I understand that they knew the bombs were hoaxes and they could commit attrocities with impunity because nuclear reprisals WOULD NEVER COME.
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Bergmann was also head of the Ministry of Defense's Research and Infrastructure Division (known by its Hebrew acronym, EMET), which had taken over the HEMED research centers (HEMED GIMMEL among them, now renamed Machon 4) as part of a reorganization. Under Bergmann, the line between the IAEC and EMET blurred to the point that Machon 4 functioned essentially as the chief laboratory for the IAEC. By 1953, Machon 4 had not only perfected a process for extracting the uranium found in the Negev, but had also developed a new method of producing heavy water, providing Israel with an indigenous capability to produce some of the most important nuclear materials. The MOST IMPORTANT NUCLEAR MATERIAL ever produced by the JEWS was the material they used to produce THE ILLUSION of a terrifying new weapon. Reading paragraphs like these YOU MIGHT BE LEFT WITH THE MISTAKEN NOTION THAT THE JEWS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ABOMB HOAX SINCE IT'S INCEPTION. Text like this HIDES the backstage role of JEWS in presenting the hoax to the president and in organizing the web of lies and deceit that would bleed the worker as he had never been bled before.
Israel is PLAYING DUMB to cover the fact that THE ISRAELI ATOMIC PROGRAM IS NOTHING MORE THAN AN EXPANSION OF THE HOAX ALREADY WELL ROOTED IN THE PUBLIC PSYCH WORLDWIDE. Just opening the HOAX CASH FUNNEL valve a little more and to ACCESS MORE PUBLIC FUNDS AND LUCRATIVE INSECURITY. People NEED TO BE REALLY AFRAID before you can expect them to BUY TONS OF PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS. You can't swell the coffers of drug company predators without creating SOME KIND OF INSECURITY.
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For reactor design and construction, Israel sought the assistance of France. Nuclear cooperation between the two nations dates back as far as early 1950's, when construction began on France's 40MWt heavy water reactor and a chemical reprocessing plant at Marcoule. France was a natural partner for Israel and both governments saw an independent nuclear option as a means by which they could maintain a degree of autonomy in the bipolar environment of the cold war. Funny how IRAQ never ATTACKED AND DESTROYED ISRAEL'S REACTOR as THE ISRAELI'S DID WHEN THE IRAQI REACTOR WAS BOMBED. If we accept that the atomic bomb is a hoax and THAT THE JEWS KNEW ABOUT IT, we have to conclude that the bombing of the Orirak reactor was to deprive IRAQ OF CHEAP CLEAN ELECTRICITY, nothing more. As they are presently doing in IRAN BY PROPOSING THEY ACCEPT U.S. FUEL RODS to run their reactors to AVOID RAISING SUSPICIONS THAT THEY MAY BE BUILDING NUCLEAR WEAPONS. If atomic weapons are hoaxes and THE U.S. KNOWS IT, then the only thing they are trying to do in Iran is DEPRIVE THEM OF AN INDEPENDANT, CHEAP,CLEAN SOURCE OF ENERGY. Note also how this double-play on the premise of the HOAX is depriving nations of THEIR RIGHTS TO SELF-SUFFICIENT AND CHEAP ENERGY ALTERNATIVES. A VERY VALUABLE HOAX INDEED.
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In the fall of 1956, France agreed to provide Israel with an 18 MWt research reactor. Now why would France DO A DUMBASS THING LIKE THAT? Are the French TOTALLY BLIND TO THE HATRED IN THOSE ZIONIST MANIACS? Well, like most everybody else, the French have INFILTRATION PROBLEMS too and the NATION-WITHIN-A-NATION decides where the political favors and technological developments are directed and TO WHO'S BENEFIT.
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However, the onset of the Suez Crisis a few weeks later changed the situation dramatically. Following Egypt's closure of the Suez Canal in July, France and Britain had agreed with Israel that the latter should provoke a war with Egypt to provide the European nations with the pretext to send in their troops as peacekeepers to occupy and reopen the canal zone.
Sounds pretty CASUAL the way they create corpses in their demented dialogues of SKUNK CONSPIRACY. Perfect example of genocide masquerading as war to obtain political privilege and geo/political advantage in a game THEY CONTROL ON BOTH SIDES. I suppose it is also on account of these SUEZ CANAL problems that THE ATOM BOMB HOAX CAME
TO ROOST IN ISRAEL. World Jewry HAD DECIDED TO DEPLOY THE A BOMB HOAX TO ISRAEL AND MILK IT FROM THERE.
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In the wake of the Suez Crisis, the Soviet Union made a thinly veiled threat against the three nations. This episode not only enhanced the Israeli view that an independent nuclear capability was needed to prevent reliance on potentially unreliable allies, but also led to a sense of debt among French leaders that they had failed to fulfill commitments made to a partner. French premier Guy Mollet is even quoted as saying privately that France "owed" the bomb to Israel. POTENTIALLY UNRELIABLE ALLIES, LOL. When did they ever fail us? Of course the Allies and everyone else are reliable, The Jews control the FOUR CORNERS OF GLOBAL POLITICS, FINANCES, AND WAR. Nothing comes in "under-the-radar." Guy Mollet was either WAY OVERSOCIALIZED or NUTRITIONALLY DEMINERALIZED or IN CHRONIC LACK OF SLEEP to say France "OWED" the bomb to Israel. Many of France's atomic tests in the Sahara Desert FIZZED OUT. Makes you wonder why anyone WOULD CHOOSE THEM as a nuclear buddy.
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On 3 October 1957, France and Israel signed a revised agreement calling for France to build a 24 MWt reactor (although the cooling systems and waste facilities were designed to handle three times that power) and, in protocols that were not committed to paper, a chemical reprocessing plant. This complex was constructed in secret, and outside the IAEA inspection regime, by French and Israeli technicians at Dimona, in the Negev desert under the leadership of Col. Manes Pratt of the IDF Ordinance Corps. MORE PROTOCOLS THAT WERE NEVER COMMITTED TO PAPER. Another shroud of HIGH SECRECY PROTOCOLS. Leakproof. The hoaxster's PARADISE. In the case of Israel, PARADISUS JUDEORUM. Tight as Tibbet's 509th Composite Group.
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Both the scale of the project and the secrecy involved made the construction of Dimona a massive undertaking.
Another SMALL ARMY of people BOUND BY HIGH SECRECY LAWS and NATIONAL SECURITY PROTOCOLS. Any leaks to the hoax at this point can be easily STAMPED OUT. The whole state security apparatus stands behind the hoaxsters. Leakproof. Try to imagine YOU have seen something irregular about this so-called Israeli Atom Bomb project and you tried to leak it through the SKUNK MEDIA. GOOD LUCK. The same kind of forces gagging the printed press and mass media are at work moulding and giving direction to the atom bomb hoax. THE HOAX IS SHROUDED IN DEEP SECRECY. YOUR TAX DOLLARS ARE INSURING THAT THE CASH FUNNEL TO THE SKUNKS NOT BE INTERRUPTED. The United States government alone spends 6 billion dollars annully to protect secrets and the CIA has not published the COSTS OF KEEPING IT'S SECRETS. I assume Israel PAYS A LOT to keep it's secrets TOO.
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A new intelligence agency, the Office of Science Liasons, (LEKEM) was created to provide security and intelligence for the project. At the height construction, some 1,500 Israelis some French workers were employed building Dimona. To maintain secrecy, French customs officials were told that the largest of the reactor components, such as the reactor tank, were part of a desalinization plant bound for Latin America. Again you see COMPARTMENTALIZATION at work keeping the workers IGNORANT OF THE BIG PICTURE. Note the FIBBING about the desalinization plant. See HOW EASY IT IS TO PULL THE WOOL OVER THE EYES OF THOSE THAT HAVE HAD THEIR VOICE AND TONGUES REMOVED TOO (in a metaphorical sense of course). These are the types of so-called UNBIASED SOURCES we like to rely on TO GET OUR FACTS STRAIGHT yet they are GAGGED in any practical sense. Compartmentalization IS THE A BOMB HOAX'S BEST FRIEND.
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In addition, after buying heavy water from Norway on the condition that it not be transferred to a third country, the French Air Force secretly flew as much as four tons of the substance to Israel. Could have been fifty times more and we would never know the difference, IT WAS SECRET AFTER ALL. The hoaxsters are free to lie at will from behind THE SHROUD OF HIGH SECRECY PROTOCOLS.
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Trouble arose in May 1960, when France began to pressure Israel to make the project public and to submit to international inspections of the site, threatening to withhold the reactor fuel unless they did. President de Gaulle was concerned that the inevitable scandal following any revelations about French assistance with the project, especially the chemical reprocessing plant, would have negative repercussions for France's international position, already on shaky ground because of its war in Algeria. Controlled opposition designed to start informing the world that THE JEWS have the ATOMIC
BOMB and start getting the public used to the idea THAT ISRAEL DOES NOT SUBMIT TO MONITORING OR OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE. Preconditioning the world to the untenable idea that THE JEWS CAN NO LONGER BE EXPELLED. That if you are displeased with, or can no longer tolerate their presence YOU MUST SWALLOW HARD AND GO TO HELL WITH THEM. Well, at least the good news is THAT NUKES DON'T EXIST. The bad news is that THE JEW CAN STILL WIPE OUT PLENTY OF PEOPLE EVEN WITHOUT ATOM BOMBS. The other stuff is REAL ENOUGH and NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH TOO. No peace while the genocidal maniacs run about unrestrained, ATOM BOMBS OR NO ATOM BOMBS.
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At a subsequent meeting with Ben-Gurion, de Gaulle offered to sell Israel fighter aircraft in exchange for stopping work on the reprocessing plant, and came away from the meeting convinced that the matter was closed. It was not. Over the next few months, Israel worked out a compromise. France would supply the uranium and components already placed on order and would not insist on international inspections. In return, Israel would assure France that they had no intention of making atomic weapons, would not reprocess any plutonium, and would reveal the existence of the reactor, which would be completed without French assistance. In reality, not much changed - French contractors finished work on the reactor and reprocessing plant, uranium fuel was delivered and the reactor went critical in 1964. The Jews are ALLOWED TO LIE (so is everybody else but no one else does it with such organization and prestige as the Jew). And they exercise this right ABUNDANTLY. France, like many other countries, is infiltrated with JEWS IN THE RULING ELITE. Otherwise why would anyone in their right mind believe the word of a NATION OF TAMUDISTS? Like Einstein preferring to give the atom bomb to a NATION OF SKUNKS THAT WIPED OUT THE AMERICAN INDIAN WITH THE SEVEREST PREJUDICE instead of letting the bomb fall into the hands of Hitler. The French were handing over the means to produce weapons of mass destruction to a people that had JUST COMMITTED A GENOCIDAL MASSACRE AT DEIR YASSIN IN PALESTINE. A VICIOUS CABALE OF GENOCIDAL SKUNKS. The reason I think France was comfortable handing this technology over to Israel because THEY KNEW IT COULD ONLY BE DEPLOYED AS AN ILLUSION OF POWER. No danger in promulgating a hoax, nobody is ever going to get nuked by it anyways.
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The United States first became aware of Dimona's existence after U-2 overflights in 1958 captured the facility's construction, but it was not identified as a nuclear site until two years later. The complex was variously explained as a textile plant, an agricultural station, and a metallurgical research facility, until David Ben-Gurion stated in December 1960 that Dimona complex was a nuclear research center built for "peaceful purposes." Note that THIS IS THE SAME UNITED STATES SECURITY SERVICE THAT HAS KEPT THE ATOM BOMB SAFE THE WORLD OVER FOR THE PAST 60 YEARS and can't figure what Israel is up to from one minute to the next. That all the diplomacy leading up to Israel's acquisition of the ILLUSION of the atom bomb, that Washington notices nothing! That the only way the U.S. could obtain information on Israel was TO FLY ABOVE ISRAEL AT SOME 60, 000 FEET. PURE HOAX. The ISRAELI can't EVEN USE BULLDOZERS FOR PEACEFUL PURPOSES, much less ABOMBS.
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There followed two decades in which the United States, through a combination of benign neglect, erroneous analysis, and successful Israeli deception, failed to discern first the details of Israel's nuclear program. As early as 8 December 1960, the CIA issued a report outlining Dimona's implications for nuclear proliferation, and the CIA station in Tel Aviv had determined by the mid1960s that the Israeli nuclear weapons program was an established and irreversible fact. Smoke and mirrors to obscure the presence of the HOAX COLLABORATORS vollying for the geopolitical shift that will optimize the hoax's potential for lucrative income. THEY WERE GENERATING THE FEAR REQUIRED TO STIMULATE THE NEED FOR MORE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
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United States inspectors visited Dimona seven times during the 1960s, but they were unable to obtain an accurate picture of the activities carried out there, largely due to tight Israeli control over the timing and agenda of the visits. The Israelis went so far as to install false control room panels and to brick over elevators and hallways that accessed certain areas of the facility. The inspectors were able to report that there was no clear scientific research or civilian nuclear power program justifying such a large reactor - circumstantial evidence of the Israeli bomb program but found no evidence of "weapons related activities" such as the existence of a plutonium reprocessing plant. Note the QUEEN OF DOUBLE STANDARDS AT WORK here. When Saddam Hussein resisted unobstructed nuclear inspections he WAS CLOBBERED and his nation reduced to AN EVIL CAULDRON OF DISEASE INFESTED RUINS CONTAMINATED FROM TOP TO BOTTOM WITH DEPLETED URANIUM. Israel gets pushy and secretive and manipulative BUT THEY GET AWAY WITH IT. I suppose they let the Israeli LIE, MURDER and TORTURE because THEY WERE VICTIMS THEMSELVES (NOT). To the Jew every hoax has it's purpose and lucrative potential. The American inspections had MORE TO DO WITH SENSATION AND HYPE than VERIFYING THE STABILITY OF NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION. The U.S. was helping Israel open this cash funnel for THEIR MANAGEMENT AND GEOPOLITICAL ENJOYMENT. Why else would the United States of America bother with a LITTLE SKUNK HOAXSTER STATE LIKE ISRAEL? The FACT THAT THEY "DID" makes the hoax appear MORE REAL to the MARK (the general public). This criminal conspiracy between SO-CALLED INDEPENDANT SOVEREIGN NATIONS looks more like A NATION WITHIN A NATION running THE ILLUSION OF SOVEREIGN NATIONS. How else can we come away suspecting the presence of a governing layer within the known governing layers that always seems to get away with doing things against the will of the people and more often than not, to the people's detriment? A SHADOW LAYER OF GOVERNMENT WITH FULL DISCRETIONARY POWER OVER THE ASSETS OF THE WORLD'S WORKING MASSES WHILE UNKNOWN TO THE MASSES COULD PULL OFF A WORLDWIDE NUCLEAR HOAX. The implications are MIND BOGGLING.
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Although the United States government did not encourage or approve of the Israeli nuclear program, it also did nothing to stop it. Walworth Barbour, US ambassador to Israel from 196173, the bomb program's crucial years, primarily saw his job as being to insulate the President from facts which might compel him to act on the nuclear issue, alledgedly saying at one point that "The President did not send me there to give him problems. He does not want to be told any bad news." After the 1967 war, Barbour even put a stop to military attachs' intelligence collection efforts around Dimona. Even when Barbour did authorize forwarding information, as he did in 1966 when embassy staff learned that Israel was beginning to put nuclear warheads in missiles, the message seemed to disappear into the bureaucracy and was never acted upon. Anyone whos job it is to insulate the President of The United States of America FROM FACTS WHICH MIGHT COMPEL HIM TO ACT ON THE NUCLEAR ISSUE is behaving in THE TEXTBOOK DEFINITION OF "TRAITOR/IMPOSTOR." THAT PUBLIC SERVANT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DISMISSED IN HASTE AT THE VERY MOMENT HE UTTERED THOSE CONTEMPTUOUS WORDS OF TREASON. In fact, for all practical purposes this skunk traitor was under the employ of MOSSAD because he was serving the interests of Israel by neglected to execute the duty imposed upon him to protect the United States, NOT ISRAEL. I'LL say one thing, THAT SKUNK HAS A LOT OF NERVE ADMITTING THIS REPORTED FUNCTION OF HIS TO OBSTRUCT AMERICAN NATIONAL SECURITY. Barbour's dereliction of duty could have cost Americans FAR MORE if the ABomb had been true. Walworth Babour was a TRAITOR/IMPOSTOR.
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In early 1968, the CIA issued a report concluding that Israel had successfully started production of nuclear weapons. This estimate, however, was based on an informal conversation between Carl Duckett, head of the CIA's Office of Science and Technology, and Edward Teller, father of the hydrogen bomb. Teller said that, based on conversations with friends in the Israeli scientific and defense establishment, he had concluded that Israel was capable of building the bomb, and that the CIA should not wait for an Israeli test to make a final assessment because that test would never be carried out. Other stories say that the Israeli tested their ABOMB alonside the Chinese atomic tests.
THE HISTORY OF THE ATOMIC BOMB SUFFERS FROM INCREDIBLE AMOUNTS OF CONTRADICTION.
Post Extras:
cactus
(rebel) 10/19/04 10:28 PM
Here I give you another of these information sources residing on the web. This time it is Pakistan's so-called atomic bomb. Again, in an effort at providing the reader with more depth on the question of the Hiroshima bomb and other similar incidents, I present this material to contrast it with or compliment the material shown to date in this thread. Of course CONTRADICTION is the big deal throughout this study and this piece is NO EXCEPTION. You be the judge and recall that I am presenting my arguments according TO THE BEST INFORMATION available to me AT THIS TIME. Again I would like the reader to understand that I am not pleased in LOSING the nuclear deterrent because IT KEPT EVERYONE HONEST, no exceptions. Any one man could be a superpower with one single moderate size nuclear bomb so the scales of world power COULD NEVER BECOME TOTALLY OVERWHELMING as they can be with MASSIVE CONVENTIONAL WORLD WAR. I regret the passing of the bomb in the sense that the killing CAN STILL BE MASSIVE WHILE CONSERVING IT'S SELECTIVITY, not so with the ABomb. So, in this respect I am forging along in this thread in the hopes of finding clues that COULD PUT THIS DEBATE TO REST ONCE AND FOR ALL. If anyone has evidence (I accept compelling circumstantial evidence and, in the context of this debate, I give this type of evidence a VERY OPEN MIND) I would appreciate a chance to examine it. So, here's Mr. Abdul Qadeer Khan's mess in Pakistan; From THIS website;
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Pakistan's bomb: Out of the closet by DAVID ALBRIGHT and MARK HIBBS As the Soviet Union breathed its last and Iraq's nuclear infrastructure was destroyed under U.N. auspices, the Bush administration redoubled its efforts to stem regional nuclear proliferation in the Middle East, on the Korean peninsula, and on the Asian subcontinent.
The QUEEN OF DOUBLE STANDARDS rears her ugly head once more to portray the world's leading proliferator of nuclear weapons the preacher of restraint and morals to others. Reverend Bush, follow thy own preaching.
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At the end of 1991, with the Cold War at an end and nuclear disarmament efforts making progress in South Africa, Brazil, and Argentina, Western diplomats hoped that India and Pakistan also might be persuaded to abandon their nuclear ambitions.
Western diplomats and ARE PRETTY BIG ON "WISHFUL THINKING."

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But this March India rejected a U.S. State Department initiative for a regional disarmament conference. And Pakistan, which in the past has offered to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) if India agrees to do so, signaled that if it attended a U.S.-sponsored nuclear disarmament conference its aim would be full diplomatic recognition as a de facto nuclear weapon state.
This is the textbook definition of USING THE A BOMB HOAX TO GAIN GEO/POLITICAL ADVANTAGE.
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Such an outcome is unacceptable to Washington.
Who cares, Washington is no longer Washington. It is the headquarters of the nation-within-anation that does not care if people trust the government or not. To them THE POWER STRUGGLE is A FAIT-ACCOMPLI.
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Pakistani Foreign Secretary Shahryar Khan admitted in a February 7, 1992 Washington Post interview that his country had the components to assemble at least one nuclear bomb. Khan claimed he was revealing this information to bridge a "credibility gap" created by a previous Pakistani regime.
I wonder if THIS KHAN is related to Abdul Qadeer Khan, the Father of the Pakistani Atom Bomb? Wonder if EITHER OR BOTH are related to Ginghus Khan the Mongol marauder? With all these atom bomb fathers you might be forgiven for wondering why they don't reserve a calendar holiday for the fathers of the atom bombs day? A kind of Father's day for genocidal maniacs of GREAT GENIUS. lol. What do you give a person like that on Father's Day? Imagine if Edward Teller HAD INSISTED ON BEING CALLED THE MOTHER OF THE HYDROGEN BOMB. He would not do that because every faithful Jew thanks GOD every day for not being born a Gentile, a slave, or A WOMAN.
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But it is more likely that his admission was motivated by a desire to gain recognition of Pakistan's nuclear status, and perhaps the renewal of U.S. aid to Pakistan. In 1985, Congress made aid to Pakistan contingent on the president certifying that Pakistan did not possess a nuclear weapon; aid was halted in 1990 when President George Bush could no longer do so.
Here THE HOAX is BEING USED TO OBTAIN FAVORS, FOOD, AND/OR MEDICINE. Nuclear begging or charity in exchange for the illusory threat of world destruction, rather pathetic way of asking for help.
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Shahryar Khan's February announcement was certainly not news to experts who have tracked Pakistan's clandestine program. Many sources, including previously classified U.S. government documents, indicate that Pakistan has been pursuing nuclear weapons for more than 15 years, and that its seasoned uranium enrichment program is capable of producing enough weapongrade uranium to build as many as six nuclear bombs per year.
Surely ENOUGH TO PRODUCE THE ILLUSION OF SIX NUCLEAR BOMBS PER YEAR. I wonder how much the Pakistani worker was being fleeced for the production of these so-called six nuclear bombs per year? Reading this paragraph you might think the Pakistani were trying to build the "Little Boy" uranium hammer type bomb. No mention of plutonium so implosion was not the plan. The paragraph says "WEAPONS GRADE URANIUM", that would be a "Little Boy" design. WHY WOULD THE PAKISTANI NOT BUILT "FAT MAN" TYPE ATOM BOMBS? The U.S. gave up on the "Little Boy" design EARLY IN THE A BOMB HOAX. Contradictions run RAMPANT in the A bomb story. WHY SIX BOMBS PER YEAR, who decides these numbers anyways?
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Uranium Pakistan began trying to enrich uranium in earnest in 1976, secretly establishing the Engineering Research Laboratories (ERL). According to a declassified 1983 State Department memorandum, gas centrifuge designs "were stolen by a Pakistani national" from the European technology holder, Urenco, the gas centrifuge enrichment consortium.(1) Most reports identify the agent as A.Q. Khan, a Pakistani metallurgist.
Here we go again with the intrigue, smoke and mirrors that follows these A Bomb hoaxes like flies on (you know what). ANOTHER KHAN! Gas centrifuge design stolen by a Mr. A. Q. Khan, a PAKISTANI METALLURGIST. Where do all these KHANs COMING FROM? Is it the only family name in Pakistan?
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The memo says that ERL had both acquired and produced components for gas centrifuges and for nuclear weapons. (In honor of Khan's contributions, ERL was renamed the A.Q. Khan Research Laboratories in 1981.)
With all the KHANS involved in the Pakistani atomic bomb story you might think someone WANTED TO KEEP THE HOAX "IN THE FAMILY."
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The centerpiece of Pakistan's enrichment program is the Kahuta gas centrifuge plant near Islamabad. This facility began operating in the early 1980s, but has been plagued by chronic delays. The 1983 State Department memo says, "We believe that the Pakistanis have experienced difficulty in making their centrifuge machines work and that the Pakistanis have not yet produced any significant quantities of enriched uranium."
Again, WHY WOULD THE PAKISTANI DESIGN A URANIUM HAMMER TYPE BOMB THAT COST SO MUCH MORE TO PRODUCE THAN THE IMPLOSION TYPE "FAT MAN" DESIGN? No one else in the nuclear community started off with uranium hammer type bombs except the U.S. in it's EARLIEST POINT ON THE ATOMIC TIMELINE. It is my understanding that the separation process mentioned here COULD NOT BE AFFORDED BY THE PAKISTANI. Did they borrow to build the so-called bombs?
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The memo also reports that Pakistan turned to China for help. The nature and the extent of Chinese assistance is unclear, but China may have helped Pakistan build centrifuges or cascades.
"MAY HAVE" being the key words in this paragraph. Proving ANYTHING the Chinese do is just as problematic as proving THE EXISTANCE OF ATOM BOMBS. Who cares what the Chinese sold or did not sell, the BOMBS ARE HOAXES anyways. A lot of buying and selling surrounds our modern-day hoaxes and their stealthy, clever and financially resourceful authors. Israel was reported to have RUN IT"S A BOMB TESTS ALONG SIDE CHINA TO HIDE THE ISRAELI TESTING. The BULL RUNS WILD.
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One 1989 report stated that China had supplied enough weapon-grade uranium to make two nuclear bombs.(2) However, one U.S. official has said that this assistance is unconfirmed.
Doesn't anyone SELL FULLY ASSEMBLED NUKES ANYMORE? LOL. Better to buy a DUD MASQUERADING AS THE REAL THING. At least when your adversary SEES YOU TRY TO LOB ONE AT HIM HE WILL ASSUME YOU INTENDED MILLIONS OF DEATHS AND WILL RECIPROCATE CONVENTIONALLY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS BELIEF. It's sad and funny at the same time.
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He said that China might instead have helped by supplying unenriched uranium hexafluoride or "hex," the chemical form of uranium used in centrifuges. Pakistan obtained its own uranium hexafluoride production equipment from a German company in the late 1970s, but it could still have been experiencing difficulties in producing hex in the early 1980s.
Why are the Pakistani playing around with FANCY ISOTOPE SERARATION PROCESSES when they COULD BUY PLUTONIUM FROM CHINA and MAKE THE IMPLOSION BOMB INSTEAD. Sounds like they were needlessly pursuing a rather expensive path when cheaper alternatives were available. It just seems odd TO SEE THE MOST RECENT PLAYER IN THE ATOMIC FAMILY IS USING THE FIRST PLAYER"S EARLIEST TECHNOLOGY. 30 years of atomic progress only to develop INFERIOR PRODUCTS THAT HAVE BEEN LONG OBSOLETED BY THE SUPERPOWERS.
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In return for its assistance, China is believed to have received Urenco technology from Pakistan. China has had a gas centrifuge research and development program since 1958. It is unknown if China has built a production facility.
What A GREAT DEAL, Pakistan gets THE ULTIMATE POWER TO UPSET AN ALREADY VERY TENSE NUCLEAR PLANETARY COMMUNITY THAT COULD POTENTIALLY SIGNIFY THE END OF THE KNOWN WORLD and China gets WHAT? "URENCO" technology. Sound's like the whole thing is a hoax or the CHINESE SERIOUSLY NEED TO REARRANGE THEIR PRIORITIES.
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In 1984, A.Q. Khan announced that Kahuta was producing low-enriched uranium, but would not enrich uranium above the five percent level. However, U.S. intelligence concluded by mid-1986 that Kahuta was producing highly enriched, weapon-grade uranium.(3)
Here you find the A Bomb Hoax reinforcing the impossible notion that U.S. Intelligence REALLY WORKS. Which it does not in fact. The HOAX IS A MULTIPURPOSE TOOL DEPLOYED AT WILL AND TO PROJECT ILLUSIONS IN IT"S OWN RIGHTS? Hoax OFFSHOOTS or HOAX SPINOFF. You could say that the propping given to US intelligence services by the A Bomb hoax is A HOAX NESTED WITHIN A HOAX.
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According to a 1986 memo prepared for Henry Kissinger, then a member of the president's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, Kahuta had the nominal capability to produce "enough weapons-grade material to build several nuclear devices per year."(4) But the memo did not indicate the actual amount produced.
More FLUFF. Smoke and mirrors and octopus ink to obscure the fact that the WHOLE THING IS AN ILLUSION. What difference does it make HOW MANY A BOMBS THE PAKISTANI DECIDE TO BUILD IF ONLY ONE CAN LEVEL NEW-YORK AND VAPORIZE IT'S INHABITANTS? It's THE MONEY that makes any nuclear superpower or aspiring ATOMIC WANNABE want MORE THAN A HANDFUL OF NUKES.
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her visit to Washington in June 1989, Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto reportedly stopped weapongrade uranium production, a step which the U.S. government was able to verify.(5) But when Pakistan and India clashed over Kashmir in the spring of 1990, Pakistan resumed production and continued until some time in 1991, according to Shahryar Khan's February interview with the Washington Post.
Moving the HOAX INTO and OUT OF the minds of the public to suit the geo/political agenda. The A Bomb hoax HAS A LIFE OF IT'S OWN...think about it.
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Despite a wealth of public information on the qualitative aspects of Pakistan's program, little precise information is available about the amount of weapon-grade uranium Kahuta can produce each year, or about the total amount it has produced so far. We can only estimate quantities by considering the types of centrifuges Pakistan is believed to have obtained in Europe, and by estimating the number it has operated at Kahuta.
"WE CAN ONLY ESTIMATE", "WE DON'T KNOW" that's what you always hear from the GREATEST SECURITY AGENCIES THE WORLD HAS KNOWN AND HAS MANAGED TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC
FROM NUCLEAR TERRORISM FOR OVER SIXTY YEARS (not). How can they keep ALL THOSE NUCLEAR WEAPONS OUT OF THE HANDS OF TERRORISTS FOR EVER SIXTY YEARS? Because THEY ARE NOT REAL.
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Stolen centrifuges According to a Western enrichment expert, the first Urenco centrifuge designs Pakistan built were probably based on two first-generation prototype centrifuges designed by Ultra-Centrifuge Nederland (UCN), the Dutch partner in the trilateral Urenco consortium.
Naturally this WESTERN ENRICHMENT EXPERT HAS NO NAME. The key words in this paragraph are "probably based." Lots of word combinations THAT SAY NOTHING in this A BOMB HOAX.
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These machines, the CNOR and SNOR, featured aluminum rotors, connected by bellows. The bellows act to reduce vibrations caused by resonant frequencies at certain operating speeds. Rotors that spin faster than the first of these frequencies are called supercritical. Bellows in supercritical machines allow for longer centrifuges, and thus, more separation of uranium, but they are considered difficult to master. CNOR and SNOR machines have an estimated separative capacity of 2 to 5 separative work units (a standard measure) per year.
Again, one must ask the BEGGING QUESTION, why are the Pakistani DEVELOPING OUTRAGEOUSLY EXPENSIVE OBSOLETE ATOMIC WEAPONS WHILE EVERYONE ELSE IS NOT? No matter how complex or diverse the instruments used to arrive at the ends THIS METHOD WAS BY FAR THE MOST LABORIOUS AND POLLUTING OPTION. Better options were available and SAID TO BE ACTIVELY DEPLOYED FOR MILITARY PREPAREDNESS.
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Intelligence reports on the activities of Pakistani agents in the Netherlands in the 1970s concluded in 1980 that a small number of CNOR and SNOR machines were "spinning somewhere in Pakistan."(6) Other sources report that Pakistan had trouble getting these machines to work on a large scale and started replacing them with more reliable machines based on two German Urenco designs, the G-1 and G-2.
Sounds like BUYING PREFABRICATED AND FULLY ASSEMBLED NUKES would have been the DREAM OPTION for Pakistan. Funny how every damn nation on the surface of this earth are prepared to sell THE EQUIPMENT TO PRODUCE ATOM BOMBS but they NEVER PROPOSE TO SELL THEM FULLY ASSEMBLED. Further evidence that the world has been duped into thinking the A bombs were real. WHY NOT SELL FULLY ASSEMBLED NUKES TO A COUNTRY YOU ARE PREPARED TO SELL THE MEANS TO MAKE THEM? Does not make sense AT ALL.
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First-generation centrifuges were also being replaced by improved production models at the UCN plant at Almelo during the early and mid-1970s. Dutch intelligence believes that Pakistan obtained design information for the newer centrifuges in part through Khan's efforts-in 1974 UCN asked him to translate classified design documents for the German centrifuges. According to the statement of a senior German official, Pakistani agents obtained centrifuge components and design information in Germany as well.
The whole premise of this centrifuge story is failed. The Pakistani appear to be using THE HARDEST POSSIBLE ROAD TO NUCLEAR AUTONOMY. This article unscores a CERTAIN COOPERATION BETWEEN THE CHINESE AND PAKISTAN but neglects to address the issue of China NOT helping it's Pakistani partner EXPLOIT THE BEST POSSIBLE NUCLEAR OPTION EARLY IN THE GAME SO TO SPEAK.
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Following the 1991 Gulf War, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) confirmed that Urenco design information formed the backbone of Iraq's clandestine centrifuge program. German officials then speculated that the same unknown German sources who provided Pakistan with information on the G-1 and G-2 might have also passed the information to Baghdad.
Here THE A BOMB HOAX is being used as A VEHICLE TO INTRODUCE SAVAGERY INTO IRAQ and PILLAGE THE RESOURCES and COMMIT GENOCIDE. The hoax has MANY FACETS and MAY BE SPUN TO SUIT THE OCCASION. The citizens of the United States HAVE PURCHASED FULLY ASSEMBLED NUCLEAR BOMBS FROM THEIR NATION'S SUPPLIERS but COUNTRIES WILL NOT BUY THEM PREASSEMBLED BECAUSE THEY NEVER KNOW FOR SURE IF IT WORKS. In other words THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER HAS MORE FAITH THAN WORLD LEADERS OF INDEPENDANT NATIONS.
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A G-1 centrifuge has a capacity of between 2 and 3 separative work units per year. The G-2s have an estimated capacity of 5 to 6 separative work units per year. The comparatively advanced G-2 machine is a supercritical centrifuge featuring two maraging steel rotor tubes connected by a maraging steel bellows.
Buying nukes preassembled would be better, no? Did Pakistan EVEN TRY TO BUY A FULLY ASSEMBLED NUKE? If they can afford a separation process SURELY THEY CAN COUGH UP A FEW MILLION FOR FULLY ASSEMBLED PHYSICS PACKAGES. Every other weapon man has ever made has been sold, bartered, by SOME ARMS DEALER OR ANOTHER. Except THE BOMB.
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Because Pakistan encountered difficulties building and operating centrifuges, it installed considerably more machines than it has successfully operated. In 1986, Kahuta was reported to have 14,000 centrifuges (see June 1987 Bulletin). U.S. officials confirmed that Pakistan might have built that many, but they estimated that only about 1,000 were actually in operation. One official added that Pakistan's centrifuge "junk pile is sizable."
To THE TAXPAYER (also known as the victim of highway robbery) it is A VERY EXPENSIVE, "JUNK PILE."
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The estimate of 1,000 machines in operation is consistent with a 1986 report in the Muslim, a daily newspaper in Islamabad. The Muslim reported that Kahuta was "rumored to have 1,000 centrifuges, against a planned capacity of 2,000 to 3,000 centrifuges."(7) The 1983 memo asserted that Kahuta is "eventually to house several thousand machines."
Pure HOAX MAINTENANCE. Behind the shroud of National Security the SKUNKS ARE HAVING A GLORIOUS TIME FLEECING THE PUBLIC.
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One U.S. official we interviewed in spring 1991 said that Pakistan was operating nearly 3,000 machines at Kahuta. Pakistan now has the manufacturing capability and know-how to increase the number of machines. But the official said that Pakistan was concentrating on developing more advanced machines and replacing older centrifuges rather than increasing the number in operation.
Something THEY SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF IN THE FIRST INSTANCE. Still no explanation why Pakistan was developing a weapon along obselete design parameters. Surely if the Pakistani have the money to go ahead with isotope separation systems they could have build an implosion plutonium bomb for less monetary investment. Why the primitive U235 configuration?
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We believe that most of Pakistan's centrifuges are based on the G-2 design, although a significant number of the machines could be based on less capable German and Dutch designs. Assuming a mix of types, each with a capacity of between 3 and 5 separative work units per year, Kahuta could produce about 9,000 to 15,000 separative work units per year.
What difference DOES THIS MAKE. Following these lines of technological progress you can be sure that Pakistan WAS TO BE A MINOR PLAYING IN ANY PRACTICAL SENSE OF THE WORD. The whole nation of Pakistan could be wiped out with a handful of strategically deployed nukes. That is, if the bombs existed.
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This is enough to produce about 45 to 75 kilograms of weapon-grade uranium a year, assuming that natural uranium is fed into the plant and that about 0.3 percent of the uranium 235 is left in the waste, or "tails." If Pakistan had sufficient uranium hexafluoride stocks, it could accept a higher rate of waste. With a 0.5 percent tails assay, Kahuta's annual production could be 60 to 100 kilograms of weapon-grade uranium.
What are they doing PLAYING AROUND WITH URANIUM HAMMER TYPE TECHNOLOGY WHEN FAR BETTER WAS AVAILABLE AT A CHEAPER INVESTMENT?
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Assuming that a nuclear device requires about 15 kilograms, Kahuta has the capability to produce enough weapon-grade uranium for 3 to 6 devices a year.
They probably busted the backs of the ordinary Pakistani worker JUST BUYING THE CENTRIFUGES and othe OBSOLETE TECHNOLOGY. The Pakistani GOT FLEECED ROYALLY.
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Kahuta, however, has not operated at nominal capacity for most of its history. By the end of 1991, Pakistan had probably produced between 100 and 200 kilograms of weapon-grade uranium, based on a variety of tails assays and separative capabilities.(8) This is enough material for roughly 6 to 13 nuclear explosive devices.
Very SLOPPY, EXPENSIVE and strategically prohibitive. One is deluding oneself if he is expecting to make some kind of significant impact in world detterence factors with NUMBERS LIKE THAT and TECHNOLOGY LIKE THAT.
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Pakistan is building a second enrichment plant at Golra, about six miles west of Islamabad. A 1987 British report implied that "several thousand centrifuges" would be installed there.(9) According to a U.S. official, Pakistan has had problems getting equipment from abroad, and therefore progress in completing the facility has been slow and sporadic. Western intelligence reports suggest that Golra is being used to test a small number of advanced supercritical centrifuges before they are installed at Kahuta.
I think Golra is being used as a laboratory to test the limits of the working mass's interest in PAYING MORE AND MORE AND MORE for WORTHLESS HOAXES.
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Reprocessing One U.S. official interviewed in 1991 said that Pakistan had completed a small reprocessing plant called "New Labs" at the Pinstech complex near Rawalpindi. New Labs is based on blueprints delivered by France, with key equipment bought from a variety of suppliers. According to the 1983 State Department memo, New Labs would need several years to separate enough plutonium for a nuclear weapon. The memo adds, however, that New Labs seemed to be large enough to allow for expansion of its reprocessing capacity.
Ah, AT LAST, the plutonium card is played. The plutonium technology WAS IN THE HANDS OF THE CHINESE when the Pakistani started showing interest in atomic bombs. I can't understand why the Chinese would neglect to help a cooperative neighbor buy into the bomb IN A MODERN SORT OF WAY. The Chinese sat back and probably laughed at dumbass Pakistan milking obsolete garbage. Anyone that WANTS TO DEVELOP ROCKETS TO DELIVER NUCLEAR WEAPONS WILL GO WITH THE SMALL BOMBS NOT THE BIG PROHIBITIVE URANIUM HAMMER TYPE DESIGN. THE BATTLEFIELD NUKE and NUKE BACKPACK were current technologies with HIGH DELIVERABILITY CHARACTERISTICS for those wishing to incorporate them into rocket delivery vehicles. Pakistan's choice of nuclear deterrence does not seem to make sense even from the perspective of those THAT BELIEVE THE BOMBS TO BE TRUE.
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Because Pakistan lacks a supply of unsafeguarded irradiated fuel, raw intelligence reports have claimed-and experts have speculated- that Pakistan has been trying to build a nuclear reactor
that would generate significant amounts of plutonium.
At best, this IS EXACTLY WHAT PAKISTAN SHOULD HAVE DONE "IN THE FIRST PLACE." Why they did not is open to debate.
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Recently, more information about Pakistani procurement was revealed in Bundestag committee hearings, which included the testimony of the prosecutor in the 1990 trial of German nationals who helped Pakistan to obtain illegal materials.(10) Rudolf Ortmayer, a German engineer convicted in 1990 of having illegally exported nuclear goods to Pakistan, testified before his trial that the piping he supplied in the late 1980s was "for construction of an indigenous primitive, pool-type reactor." The aluminum fuel-cladding material Ortmeyer supplied would not have been usable in Pakistan's existing reactors.
These types of testimonials serve to obcure the fact THAT THE HOAX IS EVOLVING AND THE CASH FUNNEL WILL BE OPENED WIDER TO ACCOMODATE NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION. A hoax that is MILKING THREE QUARTERS OF THE WORKING MASSES OF THE PLANET. At this rate every Jew WILL HAVE EACH 2600 SLAVES WHEN "THE HOT ONE" COMES BACK AND CONGRATULATES HIS SUBJECTS FOR TERROR AND GENOCIDE WELL DONE.
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Based on Pakistan's procurement of a wide array of related equipment, and the revelation of its program to produce large amounts of nuclear-grade graphite, the West German intelligence agency, the Bundesnachrichtendienst, reported in late 1983 that Pakistan had probably begun to develop an indigenous reactor.
Naturally IT WAS NOT THE U.S. THAT FOUND THAT OUT. Clumsy oafs.
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It has still not been established that Pakistan is building a reactor for plutonium production. But Pakistan has had Chinese assistance in building a tiny research reactor that contains about one kilogram of Chinese-supplied weapon-grade uranium fuel that is under IAEA safeguards. Without a much larger reactor, Pakistan could separate only tiny amounts of plutonium from the small quantities of fuel it could legally withdraw from safeguards. A U.S. official believes that Pakistan probably did some experimental separation of plutonium.
Very hard to verify and EVERYTHING IS SHROUDED BY NATIONAL SECURITY PROTOCOLS and HIGH SECURITY CLEARANCES. The fleecer's paradise. The incredule masses JUST KEEP PAYING AND PAYING FOR A DAVID COPPERFIELD TYPE VERSION OF NUCLEAR DETERRENCE.
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Weaponization Like Iraq, Pakistan was simultaneously developing the ability to produce fissile materials while trying to master weapon design and production. Its weapons design efforts began over 15 years ago, and they required substantial foreign assistance. The 1983 State Department memo says that "nuclear explosive design and development work began in Pakistan soon after the 1974 Indian nuclear test."
Note here how THE HOAX CROSSWALKS exposes THE DUAL USE of the atom bomb hoax. One big stupid AND VERY EXPENSIVE game of ILLUSIONS. Note how IRAQ IS ALREADY UNDERGOING THE DEMONIZATION PROCESS AT THIS EARLY STAGE.There has never been the slightest evidence that Iraq was developing anything more that the ILLUSION OF ATOMIC WEAPONS. Whether Iraq knew this or not does not matter but to THOSE IN THE KNOW it must have been hilarious.
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The work was assigned to an organization within the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, which studied implosion hydrodynamics, neutronics, high explosives testing, and metallurgy. The 1983 memo says that Pakistan subsequently worked on an electronic triggering circuit for detonating
the high explosives, and experimented with shaped charges. It concluded that "Pakistan has already undertaken a substantial amount of the necessary design and high explosives testing of the explosive triggering package, and we believe Pakistan is now capable of producing a workable package of this kind." A dummy core of natural or depleted uranium would be used to test the non-nuclear high explosive triggering or implosion package for a nuclear weapon.
So NOW WE SEE A MEASURING STICK appearing to CERTIFY THE VIABILITY OF AN ATOMIC BOMB. Great! Let's see what they are saying, THEY ARE USING A "DUMMY" (I read this to mean non-fissionable) CORE OF NATURAL OR DEPLETED URANIUM TO TEST THE IMPLOSION SHAPE CHARGE BLAST DYNAMICS. In other words they were imploding LEAD to determine if PLUTONIUM WILL GO CRITICAL AND THUS VERIFY THE AUTHENTIC VIABILITY OF THE PACKAGE. At this point I am very skeptical but lets read on...
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U.S. officials have said on many occasions since the early 1980s that Pakistan received a proven weapon design from China. It has been reported that the design was that used in China's fourth nuclear-weapons test in 1966 at Lop Nor. This test involved the detonation of a warhead carried by missile. If Pakistan received a copy of this design, then its warhead is probably much smaller than early Chinese aerial bombs and could operate under the more exacting conditions of delivery by missile.
"PROVEN WEAPON DESIGN" I thought the only ones that could use this expression were those THAT SUCCESSFULLY DETONATED SUCH DEVICES AND OBSERVED CONDITIONS IN ACCORD WITH THE MATHEMATICAL EXPECTATIONS. How can anyone CERTIFY SOMETHING where each one of these somethings MUST BE TESTED INDIVIDUALLY and could potentially BE A DUD? Recall that we still SEE NO EVIDENCE OF SALES OF FULLY ASSEMBLED NUKES. Seems the "proven weapon design"notion is not convincing enough to make sales of fully assembled nukes an easy matter.
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In a recent interview, one U.S. official cautioned that receiving a "cookbook design doesn't mean that you can make a cake on the first try." It took Pakistan 10 years to enrich uranium, even with Urenco centrifuge designs and extensive knowledge about Urenco experts and suppliers. Pakistan would probably have required several years to build bombs after getting the design.
Could HAVE GONE NUCLEAR INITIALLY AND ON-THE-SPOT IF CHINA HAD SOLD THEM FULLY ASSEMBLED NUCLEAR BOMBS. These bombs ONLY NEED TO CONVINCE THE INCREDULE MASSES.
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Little is known about the particular Chinese design. A U.S. official said in a 1991 interview that it utilized a nearly solid sphere of weapon-grade uranium with a tiny hollow core, surrounded by a tamper and high explosives. Such a design would require about 15 kilograms of weapon-grade uranium.
I sure would like to see THIS PLUTONIUM/URANIUM HAMMER HYBRID bomb. The implosion characteristics of the implosion type bomb and the ENRICHED URANIUM design concept of the obsolete "Little Boy." HOW DOES "THAT WORK." Sounds pretty silly actually. Contradiction in GREAT ABUNDANCE.
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Pakistan also got bomb components and test equipment in Europe and the United States. According to the 1983 State Department memo, in late 1981 through 1982 European companies sold Pakistani procurement agents metal components that were "unambiguously identified as those of a nuclear device." Pakistani agents also tried to get precision lathes and associated equipment, specifically for the manufacture of bomb components. Following U.S. government protests, Pakistan shifted "from procurement of weapons components themselves to procurement of machinery necessary for their manufacture."
All this stuff COSTS A BUNDLE OF MONEY. A big Black Hole of FALSE SECURITY and GENOCIDAL
opportunism. THE ILLUSION OF DETERRENCE, LOCK, STOCK, AND BARREL.

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One of the more difficult problems in building a nuclear bomb is the neutron initiator, which starts the fission chain reaction at the right moment by injecting a spurt of neutrons. Recording a sharp neutron signal while testing an implosion package would provide confidence that the bomb would work.
Said the SNAKE-OIL SALESMAN.

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Pakistan would have several initiator options. All, however, require either an alpha-particle source-most likely polonium 210-or tritium. In the first type, polonium is mixed with beryllium at the right instant, and the alpha particles from the polonium 210 interact with beryllium to produce neutrons. A tritium initiator requires fusion of tiny amounts of tritium and deuterium, resulting in high-energy neutrons. Tritium initiators are generally considered more difficult to build than polonium-beryllium initiators. (Iraq was pursuing a polonium-beryllium initiator, probably for this reason.)
How does ANY OF THIS prove that a successful atomic detonation performing UP TO MATHEMATICAL EXPECTATIONS has EVER been done? What value does this information have for the casual observer that IS PAYING FOR ALL OF IT? Most ordinary people WILL NEVER come close to verifying ANY OF THIS STUFF. Circumstantial evidence is THE REVISIONIST'S BEST FRIEND in situations of HIGH SECRECY HOAXES. It's like a passage from THE I-CHING where THE SUBSTANCE OF THE WIND is understood BY THE EFFECT IT HAS ON THE SURFACE OF THE WATER. The Hoax "ALSO" disturbs THE WATER in ways THAT REVEAL IT'S TRUE PURPOSE AND CONSISTENCY. The water tells us that A Bombs are NOT TRUE.
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But polonium-beryllium initiators have a great disadvantage. The half-life of polonium is only about 140 days; tritium has a half-life of 12 years. To keep weapons with polonium initiators functional would require a constant resupply of polonium. Pakistan's most probable source of polonium is safeguarded reactors, but producing polonium for nuclear weapons in civilian reactors would violate Pakistan's safeguards agreements with Canada, the IAEA, and the United States. And if Pakistan were caught, its ability to field usable weapons would be jeopardized.
How could PAKISTAN GET CAUGHT? And so what if they did get caught? It's not like one is interrupting a backyard mechanic building a potato cannon. How do you punish a superpower (if a bombs were real I would consider EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT HAS ONLY ONE a superpower) anyways. What is Canada's role in all this, are they THE ABOMB HOAX CLEARINGHOUSE and NUCLEAR NANNIE ?, LOL.
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One U.S. official said that the United States is satisfied that Pakistan has not created polonium in its safeguarded reactors. If not, then Pakistan has probably developed tritium initiators, even though they are considered more difficult to develop. China may have given Pakistan the design for a small tritum initiator. The initiator, located at the center of the weapon-grade uranium core, would require a design that could produce a more symmetric converging shock wave. In 1987, Pakistani agents smuggled 0.8 grams of pure tritium gas they had obtained from German parties who were convicted of illegally exporting tritium in 1990.(11) This would be enough tritium for a number of neutron initiators.
Did you count the IFS, PROBABLYS, SATISFIEDS in this paragraph? Whole belief structures resting on WET CARDBOARD FOUNDATIONS OF INCERTAINTY AND DOUBT. The hoaxsters expect to gain more credibility by MAKING THAT SCIENCE LOOK SOOOOO COMPLICATED. I caution the reader THAT MOST TRIALS IN COURT OVER NUCLEAR BOMB ISSUES have been SHOW TRIALS and were part of some pseudo-hoax maintenance program. Most of this information floating around the internet IS SUPPOSED TO BE TOP SECRET, why can we STILL ACCESS THIS INFORMATION? Because it CAN NEVER BE PUT INTO PRACTICE, that's why I think the information is kicking around loosely.
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Pakistan is probably looking at the development of more sophisticated fission bombs, boosted fission bombs, and perhaps hydrogen bombs. One of the Germans convicted in 1990 testified that his Pakistani clients were trying to obtain equipment and materials for an H-bomb program. (12) Declassified documents confirm that Pakistan has engaged in a long and increasingly sophisticated nuclear weapons program, and Pakistan's attempts to build a tritium production facility during the late 1980s may also have been motivated by a program to develop tritiumboosted fission weapons.
All this could be PURE BULL and WHO WOULD KNOW THE DIFFERANCE.
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Information from the trial of Ortmayer and others in 1990 suggested that Pakistan did not get all the equipment it needed to begin operating a tritium purification plant. But some equipment was supplied from Germany and was tested in Pakistan. Moreover, the testimony recorded that "plans and the know-how for the tritium facility were supplied" in 1987. However, without a proven design for a significantly more sophisticated fission weapon, a boosted fission weapon, or a thermonuclear device, it is doubtful that Islamabad could develop one without full-scale testing.
Why would they need full-scale testing if PROVEN DESIGNS ARE AVAILABLE? Why test something that HAS BEEN TESTED TO DEATH by the Americans and their NUCLEAR BUDDIES? QUOTED sources (1) U.S. State Department, The Pakistani Nuclear Program. Washington: GPO, June 23, 1983. (Obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by the National Security Archive, Washington, D.C.) (2) Simon Henderson, "Pakistan's Atomic Bomb," Foreign Report (Jan. 12, 1989). (3) Bob Woodward, "Pakistan Reported Near Atom Weapons Production," Washington Post, Nov. 4, 1986. (4) National Archives, U.S. Nuclear Non-Proliferation Policy: 194591. (To be published, 1992), document no. 0232. (5) Mushahid Hussain, "Nuclear Issue: Ball is Now in Pakistan's Court," Nation (Lahore), Nov. 29, 1990. (6) Report of the 2nd Chamber of the States-General (Parliament of the Netherlands), Session 197980, Report 16,082, no. 12, p. 26. (7) A. Fareed Ameen, "The Mythical Bomb," Muslim (Islamabad), Aug. 5, 1986. Quoted in Shahid-ur-Rahman Khan, "Fear of U.S. Aid Cutoff Said to Have Deterred Pakistan's Bomb Program," Nuclear Fuel (Aug. 11, 1986). (8) For a full explanation of this estimate, see D. Albright, F. Berkhout, and W. Walker, World Inventories of Plutonium and Highly Enriched Uranium (Stockholm: SIPRI, forthcoming 1992). (9) Simon Henderson, "Pakistan Builds Second Plant to Enrich Uranium," Financial Times (London), Dec. 11, 1987. (10) Testimony of Reinhard Heubner, Federal Prosecuting Attorney, Hanau District, before the Second Parliamentary Investigating Committee of the Deutscher Bundestag, Bonn, Germany, April 15, 1989, p. 60/25. (11) Ibid., pp. 60/2642. (12) Mark Hibbs, "German Firms Exported Tritium Plant to Pakistan," Nuclear Fuel (Feb. 6, 1989).
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The letters of Abdul Khan Abdul Q. Khan, the metallurgist who pioneered Pakistan's uranium enrichment and nuclear bomb development program, was able to get secret design information, materials, components, and manufacturing equipment from Europe's Urenco enrichment program and its supplier network nearly 15 years before Iraq began doing similar things.
Again YOU SEE AN EFFORT TO CHARACTERIZE IRAQ AS A NUCLEAR PLAYER.

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From 1972 through 1975, Khan worked at FDO, a Dutch engineering firm collaborating with Ultra-Centrifuge Nederland (UCN), the Dutch firm in the Urenco consortium. After Khan left FDO,
he returned home, where he took charge of Pakistan's Engineering Research Laboratories. Faced with a primitive industrial infrastructure, Khan and his procurement agents set out to buy the components and the know-how they needed to build gas centrifuges.
The CASH FUNNEL WAS OFFICIALLY INNAUGURATED AND MADE FUNCTIONAL.

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In the summer of 1976, Khan wrote to Frits Veerman, a technician and photographer working with the Dutch Urenco project; Khan had developed a close relationship with Veerman while working at FDO. After gaining Veerman's confidence, Khan sent a letter that was hand-delivered by a Pakistani embassy official. "I ask you in great confidence to help us," Khan wrote. He told Veerman that Pakistan "urgently" needed technical specifications for etching the highly sensitive spiral grooved pattern on the tiny hard metal ball a few millimeters in diameter that is part of the centrifuge's bottom bearing assembly. Khan also "very much wanted" photographic negatives of the design of the pattern.
KHAN TURNS TO A JEW FOR HELP. As if Khan would draft a letter TO MAKE A REQUEST LIKE THAT. Says, " it's CONFIDENTIAL TOO." Khan seems oblivious to the fact that PAKISTAN COULD HAVE BOUGHT PREASSEMBLED ABOMBS. Kahn is acting VERY EINSTEINISH with his SPECIAL LETTERS and open disposition for a man that IS PLAYING WITH SENSITIVE NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUES. Very sloppy NOT TO GO MEET A NUKE BIGSHOT IN PERSON WHEN REQUESTING ASSISTANCE.
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Khan pressed Veerman to get him three or four examples of photo-etched bottom bearing balls, and the same number of metal membranes and steel springs for the damping mechanism of the bottom bearing assembly of the CNOR centrifuge that UCN was working on [see figure]. "Frits," he wrote, "this is absolutely urgent since [without the membranes and springs] the entire research project has been halted."
What is Veerman's INTEREST IN ALL THIS? Why does Khan THINK HE CAN ENLIST THIS GUY'S HELP? I think Khan and Veerman were exploiting a fraudulent method to unload old obsolete equipment on the BACKS OF THE WORKING MASSES at a TIDY PROFIT. That would explain the letter to sidetrack the curious, those that would wonder how Kahn and Veerman GOT SO CHUMMY THAT KHAN COULD ASK FAVORS OF A NATIONAL SECURITY NATURE.
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Khan told Veerman to contact Franz Frencken, another employee. "I was a good friend of his," Khan wrote. "Ask him if he would be interested in paying me a visit. I would have some technical work for him and a lot of photographic work for you. Why don't you both spend a vacation here [in Pakistan] and earn some money at the same time?"
Very cozy.
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A suspicious Veerman handed Khan's letter over to the company. Although Khan claimed that the information he wanted about bottom bearings was not sensitive, his 1976 letter to Veerman was used against him in November 1983, when he was sentenced in absentia to four years in prison for trying to steal uranium enrichment secrets from the Netherlands. His conviction was overturned in 1985 by an appeals court that ruled that the prosecutor's office had not properly delivered its summons to him.
SHOW TRIAL to MAINTAIN THE ILLUSIONS.
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Khan also asked Urenco employees of Pakistani origin to help. According to a 1980 Dutch investigation, two Pakistani nationals employed as quality inspectors in the Dutch Urenco effort were "active helpers of Khan."
I wonder IF THEIR FAMILY NAME WAS KHAN TOO?

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In 1977, A.Q. Khan wrote to Abdul Aziz Khan, an electrical engineer living in Canada, who was later involved in obtaining parts for the high speed inverters that power centrifuge motors. He asked him to come home to work on a "project of national importance" for which Pakistani scientists in Britain and the United States were being recruited.(1) A.A. Khan declined, but he agreed to collect technical literature in the United States and Canada and to come to Pakistan during his vacations to train young engineers working in the program.
ANOTHER KHAN! Is there anyone involved in the Pakistani ABomb intrigue THAT IS NOT A "KHAN?" Note how CASUAL THEY ARE IN DISCUSSING MATTERS OF CRITICAL IMPORTANCE TO ALL NATIONS INVOLVED. I think this CASUAL ALLURE is the product of the hoax letting down it's facade so the hoaxsters CAN BETTER MANAGE AND STREAMLINE THE LIES.
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In 1978, A.Q. Khan asked one of his agents, a Mr. Akhtar, to "send the names and addresses of Pakistani engineers" attending a Muslim engineers' conference in North America.(2) He said, "Now, let us see how many addresses and names he would bring from there." His efforts evidently bore fruit. In 1978, Khan wrote to A.A. Khan: "Slowly and gradually people are joining."
All recruits BOUND BY HIGH SECRECY and effectively GAGGED from DAY ONE. All COMPARTMENTALIZED and insulated FROM THE BIG PICTURE AND THE FINAL ASSEMBLED PRODUCT. Muslim engineers to work on a Pakistani so-called atomic bomb, sounds VERY SUSPICIOUS. I thought Muslim engineers were too busy finding ways to veer commercial arcraft offcourse and slam them like missiles into commercial highrises and military installations. Throughout the worst of the TERROR THREATS registered and broadcast to the public NOT ONE WAS FOR A NUCLEAR BOMB THREAT because I think the U.S. Government DOES NOT THINK MUSLIMS HAVE THIS TECHNOLOGY yet Kahn is recruiting MUSLIM ENGINEERS. What is a BUNCH OF DIRTY-BOMB MAKERS going to be of help to a full fledge nuclear nation? Since when would THE JEWS ever let the Muslims GET THAT CLOSE TO INSTRUMENTS OF ARMAGGEDDON?
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After the exposure of Pakistani activities in the late 1970s, Britain and the United States established more stringent embargoes on exports to Pakistan. Khan then lamented in one letter to A.A. Khan, "The Britishers are stalling it more than before. They are even stopping nails and screws." In another letter he added, "All our material has been stopped, everywhere they are delaying it. Now we will have to do some work ourselves."
ALL SHOW to anchor the illusion of atomic bombs firmly in the minds of those THAT WOULD BE BLED DRY TO PAY FOR THEM.
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Khan's persistence has paid off. By the late 1980s A.Q. Khan and his colleagues were publishing articles in Western technical journals that demonstrated Pakistan's self-sufficiency in manufacturing and assembling centrifuges. One U.S. official said these articles not only show what Pakistan knows, they suggest that Khan is "boasting and displaying his ego."
Pakistan's nuclear program IS NOTHING TO BOAST ABOUT and NOTHING TO BOOST EGO. Shame and remorse would be more appropriate. Lying skunks.
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One Pakistani article is the only study ever made public on constructing maraging steel bellows. Urenco considers public mention of the bellows a violation of its secrecy requirements. These flexible joints between rotor tubes are considered by centrifuge experts to be extremely difficult to make. One U.S. expert characterized the Pakistani knowledge of bellows displayed in the article as "relatively competent."
"Relatively competant", LOL, you need A LOT MORE THAN THAT to make bombs GO CRITICAL.
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In 1987 Khan co-authored an article on balancing ultracentrifuge rotors which describes the process for rotor tubes connected by bellows. Balancing supercritical rotor tubes requires sophisticated equipment and is considered more difficult than balancing single rotor tubes of the type Iraq was developing before the Gulf War. The stated purpose of the study is to "provide useful and practical information, as technical information on balancing of centrifuge rotors is hardly available because most of the work is shrouded in the clouds of the so-called secrecy."
IRAQ AGAIN is mentioned. 30 years ahead of time THEY PLAN THE DEMONIZATION AND DEMISE OF THE IRAQI NATION. The nation-within-a-nation PLANS WAY AHEAD. Finally, this exceptional piece of CONTRADICTION exposes the role of the HIGH SECRECY PROTOCOLS. Its a good thing this is said at the end of the article, if they told you this at the beginning (you know, before the camphor sets in) you might wonder why any given so-called expert opinion has ANY VALUE AT ALL in this context. SOURCES for the "quoted source" -D.A., M.H. (1) John J. Fialka, "How Pakistan Secured U.S. Devices in Canada to Make Atomic Arms," Wall Street Journal, Nov. 26, 1984. (2) Sreedhar, Pakistan's Bomb: A Documentary Study (New Delhi: ABC Publishing House, 1986), p. 33. David Albright is a senior scientist at Friends of the Earth in Washington, D.C. Mark Hibbs is European editor of Nuclear Fuel and Nucleonics Week in Bonn, Germany.
Post Extras:
cactus
(rebel) 10/21/04 09:55 PM
From THISwebsite called banthebomb.org Now we examine some of the ideas circulating about military planning for nuclear war and the important role of submarines in the schemes of deterrence. Although I believe the WORLD NUCLEAR ARSENALS ARE BOGUS, I can still adopt (temporarily) the perspective of A BELIEVER to examine the consistency and veracity of the OFFICIAL LINE on atomic weapons. Once again I will say that I do not believe it was the intention of the quoted source to mislead the public and I believe they were publishing based on THE BEST INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO THEM. I have imported this text to this thread to contrast it with other elements of this story already discussed with regards to the authenticity of atomic weapons and devices. So, let's have a look at military planning for nuclear war and the role of delivery vehicles, namely the submarine (a majority role over aircraft in this source text) and aircraft cursively. Let's also try to see if anything here can put this debate to rest and certify/debunk this question reasonably;
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3. Targeting of British nuclear weapons 3.1 - Targeting a large number of cities 3.2 - Moscow Criterion 3.3 - Strategic Targeting of Trident today 3.4 - Alert status 3.1 Targeting a large number of cities From 1956 to 1969 British strategic nuclear weapons were carried by V-bombers. And all this time THESE CARRIERS NEVER KNEW THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN CARRYING FAKES.
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Initially these carried atom bombs and later hydrogen bombs.
The hoax COMES IN MANY FLAVORS and PRICES.

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There were two ways in which the bombers might have been given tasks. One was as part of a joint US and British nuclear force in a NATO attack.
And EVERYONE KNOWS THAT A NUCLEAR ATTACK EQUALS MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION (M.A.D.) Only people PEDDLING the SNAKE-OIL of nuclear armaggeddon illusions would make such suicidal battle plans and strategies for THE UNWINNABLE WAR.
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The second was as an independent British force, for which a British target plan was drawn up. According to a memorandum written by the Chief of Defence Staff, in 1959 a list was made of all Soviet cities with a population of over 100,000. From this list 98 cities were selected as targets on the basis of their administrative importance and population - the largest being chosen.
COMPLETE ANTI-SANE BEHAVIOR, unless, of course you are trying to generate the TYPE OF FEAR THAT WILL MAKE THE HARD WORKER'S EXTRA SACRIFICE WORTH BEARING. A reasonable person or persons will look at this pair of nuclear battle strategies and walk away certain in the knowledge that THOSE POSSESSING THESE TERRIBLE WEAPONS are COMPLETE AND CERTIFIED MANIACS. Relax folks, it's just a big bad boogey man and THEY CAN PLAY THE DEGREE OF FEAR AT WILL WITHOUT INCURRING THE SLIGHTEST RISK. How do "certified maniacs" keep the lid on the non-authorized proliferation of nuclear weapons for over 60 years while in possession of the REASONING PATTERNS NORMALLY FOUND IN APES and neaderthals? HOW CAN ANYONE STOP A PROFIT SEEKING SKUNK THAT WANTS TO MAKE A TIDY PROFIT SELLING ABOMBS TO INTERESTED BUYERS? Why would the skunks spontaneously GROW A CONSCIENCE and REFRAIN FROM "MAKING A DEAL?"
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In 1968 the V-bombers were replaced by Polaris submarines. There were three armed submarines, with a fourth in refit. Each of the three armed submarines carried 16 missiles. Documents released in 1998 reveal that the initial British target plan for Polaris was aimed at 48 cities in the Soviet Union.
I think the NUCLEAR ARMED submarine commanders WERE NOT CHOSEN FOR THEIR UNFLINCHING LOYALTY but rather for THEIR LACK OF A CRITICAL MIND. If any of those SOCALLED NUCLEAR ARMED SUBMARINES really had atom bomb missiles on board you could EASILY IMAGINE any given one of them UNDERSTANDING THAT SUCH DISCRETIONARY POWER TO DESTROY THE PLANET is VERY INCITEFUL TO ACTS OF MUTINY AND CATASTROPHIC GLOBAL CALAMITY. During THE CLINTON PRESIDENCY I found out THAT THESE SUBMARINE COMMANDERS HAD FULL DISCRETIONARY LAUNCH PRIVILEDGES IN CERTAIN CONDITIONS OF CONFLICT. Like if the central command is wiped out, the submariners have full discretionary power to assure uninterrupted and ASSURED MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION. If these atomic bomb missiles were real you could easily imagine ANY ONE OF THESE HUNDREDS OF NUKE-READY SUBS surfacing off the shoulder of the Continental shelf TO POUND THE TARGET TO SMITHERINES WITH "ABSOLUTE IMPUNITY to dive again and change position and RESUME POUNDING AT WILL. Show me HOW MANY LOYAL SUBMARINERS WOULD RESIST TEMPTATION LIKE THAT?
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3.2 Moscow criterion The former Permanent Secretary at the Ministry of Defence, Michael Quinlan, has indicated that British targeting has moved away from the plans described above. In discussing the ethics of nuclear weapons he talks about "final-sanction nuclear- strike" plans and says "The central idea in such plans would be to inflict disabling damage upon the aggressor state as a state, so as to remove or emasculate its ability and disposition to persist as an evil force against others, while keeping as low as possible (appallingly grave though that would probably still be)
the harm done to innocent citizens. There is little doubt that in the earlier days of the nuclear age strategic targeting was not generally shaped in this way; but as time went on both US and UK planning options - French, Soviet, and now Russian ones may be a different matter - moved significantly in this direction " 19
Note HOW EVERYONE PLANS FOR A "REASONABLE EXCHANGE OF BLOWS" from the nuclear adversary. Where do they get THIS LEVEL OF GENTLEMANLY WAR CONDUCT-OPTIMISM when it comes to PUTTING THE GENIE "BACK IN IT'S BOTTLE" after a NICE CLEAN EXCHANGE OF NUCLEAR BLOWS? Why do THEY ASSUME THE ADVERSARY WILL BE REASONABLE AND DISPOSED TO NEGOTIATING TERMS OF SURRENDER? The nuclear adversary MAY BE A FREAK THAT CARES LESS FOR THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE. You can tell that THESE MILITARY PLANNERS REALLY "LOSE- IT" when trying to reconciliate SUCH POWER with a WARRIOR NEANDERTHAL FRAME OF MIND? Any military planning for NUCLEAR WAR is WISHFUL THINKING. Seeing as bombs of the atomic type are NOT VIABLE AND NEVER HAVE BEEN (except perhaps the deterrence quality of the illusion of nuclear proliferation) I can BETTER UNDERSTAND "ALL THAT BIG-TIME SABRE-RATTLING AND THREATENING POLITICAL RHETORIC. It's NOT REAL so no one will get hurt, technically that is. The SABRE RATTLING is A GOOD PRODUCER OF "FEAR" AND ANXIETY, and THAT'S NOT BAD FOR THE PHARMACOLOGICAL CONGLOMERATES THAT "MILK THIS FEAR AND THIS ANXIETY" for every nickle and dime.
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What appears to have happened is that the focus of British targeting shifted from choosing a large number of cities on the basis of their population, to focusing on the Soviet and Russian command and control structure. 20 The centralisation of the old Soviet regime was such that this command and control system was and is heavily concentrated around Moscow. Field Marshall Nigel Bagnall, Chief of General Staff 1985-88, has said of the targeting of Trident "It is more than just the destruction of Moscow, it is the destruction of their command and control system". 21
Again, you see the military planners CONSTRUCTING MODELS OF A CIVILIZED EXCHANGE OF NUCLEAR BLOWS and they put forth ludicrous SURVIVAL MODELS that are TOTALLY UNREALISTIC. Every model shows how underground facilities will preserve the race and the SEED OF MAN will EMERGE FROM THE MOUNTAINS OF GLASSIFIED SAND AND ASHES and rebuild humanity. Only problem with this is THAT THERE ARE A SMALL ARMY OF SUBMARINERS WITH DISCRETIONARY LAUNCH PRIVILEDGES "AND NO COMMAND CENTER." ALSO KNOWN AS "DE-QUARANTEENED HELL. What do the planners expect, THE SUBMARINERS WILL COMPLIANTLY HAND OVER THE MEANS TO DESTROY THE PLANET "TO THE SURVIVORS?" Every civilian/military model ever designed to deal with the eventuality of nuclear war HAS BEEN A DESPERATE ATTEMPT AT RATIONALIZING THE IRRATIONAL. It's for reasons like these that I am sometimes grateful that the ABomb is NOT REAL. When you see how HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI resumed business shortly after being ASSAULTED WITH SO-CALLED NUCLEAR weapons you might be forgiven for asking WHY THE BIG DEAL WITH SECURITY MEASURES AND UNDERGROUND BUNKERS.
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If we look at past US nuclear planning, Soviet "leadership" targets were a special category. The ability to launch an attack on this command structure was regarded as crucial and as the last option in a nuclear exchange.22 In its independent plans Britain probably has this command structure as the main focus for its targeting. Quinlan would no doubt argue that launching a nuclear attack on this command structure is not the same as aiming to destroy Moscow, but it would, nonetheless, turn the city into a radioactive desert.
How can anyone EVER SUCCESSFULLY CONQUER THE ENEMY CONTROL CENTER when
SUBMARINERS CAN MOP UP AFTER THE DESTROYED COMMAND CENTER? I think SOME OF THESE MILITARY PLANNERS SERIOUSLY NEED TO "GET BACK TO THE BLACKBOARD" AND DO SOME MORE FIGUR'IN. Start doing the right thing and plan for THE ABSENCE OF NUCLEAR BOMBS and the PRESENCE OF VERY LETHAL CONVENTIONAL OPTIONS .
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It is clear that the ability to launch an attack on the Moscow area has been the key factor determining the nature of British strategic nuclear forces since the mid 1970s. At this time the Anti- Ballistic Missile (ABM) system around the city was enhanced. Military planners in Britain calculated that this ABM system would prevent Britain from launching a nuclear attack. So a new British system, Chevaline, was designed specifically to overcome these ABMs. Chevaline was in service from 1982 to 1996 . The missiles were armed with decoys as well as warheads. The plan was to launched all 16 missiles from the submarine on patrol at Moscow as quickly as possible. The missile trajectories were adjusted so that all the warheads and decoys would land at around the same time and swamp the ABM defences.
Ooops, THEY FORGOT THE RUSSIAN NUCLEAR ARMED SUBMARINERS AND THEIR TOTAL DISCRETIONARY LAUNCH STATUS TO RETALIATE AT WILL. How can anyone make a sane estimate of danger and retaliatory possibilities WITHOUT FACTORING IN THE DAMN SUBS OF THE ENEMY, FOREVER PATROLLING, FOREVER STEALTHY AND NUKE READY? Is Britain IMMUNE TO NUKE SUB ATTACK? They don't care about the submarines (aside from conventional ordinance, if they even HAVE THAT) BECAUSE ATOMIC BOMBS ARE HOAXES. Simple and clean. To THOSE IN THE KNOW, worldwide military planning is A JOKE. To THOSE PLAYING THE FOUR-CORNERS of world conflict and controversy and milking it to the max find it HILARIOUS. Imagine the Jews never predicted the Gentile would BECOME SO DEVOID OF PERIFERAL VISION BECAUSE OF HIS PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Life is full of surprises. LOL. British skunks would not know an ATOMIC BOMB if ONE UPPED AND BIT THEM ON THE BEHIND.
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Admiral Lord Lewin played a key role in the decision to build Trident. He has stressed the importance of the Moscow Criterion. He said: "Moscow was at the core of the Russian pysche, if you wiped out Moscow you destroyed the Soviet Unions will to succeed." 23
Assumption, they say, "IS THE MOTHER OF ALL FU*K-UPS". The reader IS TO ASSUME THAT THE SOVIET UNION WAS DEVOID OF RETALIATORY CAPABILITY. In other words, MILITARY PLANNING NOT NOT CONSISTANT WITH REALITY.
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3.3 Strategic targeting of Trident today While the Strategic Defence Review appears to suggest that there is no threat to British security and specifically no nuclear threat,
NO NUCLEAR THREAT! Did the British ALREADY HAVE AN EFFECTIVE "MISSILE DEFENSE SHIELD?
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the actual deployment of Trident described in the Review is not consistent with this.24 The Review indicates that it is the Governments intention to retain Trident on patrol for at least 20 years. With regard to responding to a strategic attack on NATO the Review says: "This Mission therefore provides for longer term insurance through a credible nuclear deterrent and the retention of essential military capabilities on which we could rebuild larger forces over a long period, if circumstances were radically to worsen."
AND ALSO INFLICT A PUNISHING RETALIATORY BLOW TO THE ADVERSARY THAT OBLITERATED YOUR COMMAND CENTER.
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25 The Review does not assign particular conventional forces to meeting a strategic attack on NATO as this is regarded as a remote possibility and only a potential threat in the long term. Yet
this approach is not sustained in the nuclear area. The nuclear plans are not for a force which could be reconstituted with months or years of notice should the situation change, but to have one submarine at sea at all times.
ONE SUBMARINE AT SEA AT ALL TIMES and you alone COULD BE A SUPERPOWER and FORCE THE PLANET TO ACCEED TO YOUR DEMANDS. If atomic bomb missiles were real, that is. Seeing THEY ARE NOT makes THAT angle a MOOT POINT. Submariners ARE VERY LETHAL but REASONABLY MANAGEABLE when not ATOMICALLY ARMED. If nuclear bombs were real, "KEEPING ONE SUBMARINE AT SEA AT ALL TIMES" would be a VERY WISE THING TO DO. Very intelligent planning in fact.
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In seeking to justify Trident, the Strategic Defence Review says that "very large numbers of strategic and shorter range nuclear weapons .. remain as a potent potential threat to the security of Britain and our Allies should current circumstances change for the worse." 26 This is alluding primarily to Russias nuclear arsenal.
Yeah, right, RUSSIA HAPPENED TO BE "THE CURRENT BOOGEY MAN."

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Michael Clark, who has close contacts with the MoD, indicates that the Moscow criterion is still the key factor which determines how many Trident warheads are deployed. With regard to the Defence Review he said: "The ABM defences around Moscow remain the logical yardstick against which British strategic nuclear weapons are judged, since this represents the only defensive screen they might be required to penetrate in the foreseeable future."27
Sure is nice WHEN YOU CAN "NARROW-DOWN" your list of POTENTIALLY LETHAL ADVERSARIES to ONE. LOL. Where do all those big world nations GET ALL THAT CONFIDENCE THAT ONE WON'T TURN ON THE OTHER? Could it be because it is THE SAME GROUP THAT CONTROLS "ALL FOUR CORNERS OF THE GLOBE?" Who knows but one thing for sure is that the confidence they have in each other NOT TO ATTACK EACH OTHER IS VERY ODD. Should the concept Mutually Assured Destruction NOT INCLUDE THE ENGLISH TOO, lol.
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The idea of deploying nuclear missiles on submarines emerged during the Cold War as a way of concealing the location of the missiles from the Soviet Union. Keeping one submarine on patrol was designed to ensure that the submarine could not be destroyed either by Soviet missiles, or by Soviet submarines. The government has decided to continue having one submarine on patrol at all times. This is a clear indication that Trident is still regarded as primarily for use against Russia.
Here you see the implied statement THAT ONE SINGLE SUBMARINE ON PATROL CAN INFLICT SERIOUS REPRISALS ON A POTENTIAL ENEMY IF NUCLEAR ARMED. Makes one wonder WHY PAKISTAN DID NOT BUY A NUKE SUBMARINE instead of spending money LIKE DRUNK SAILORS on OBSOLETE CENTRIFUGES. I think China was happy to obtain this technology of centrifuges for the only purpose of giving this technology THE IILUSION-OF-CREDIBILITY to MAKE THE PAKISTANI WORKING MASSES BUY INTO THEM. Pure Fleece!
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The Government have said that normally three Trident submarines will be fully armed at all times.28 The day to day operations of the nuclear fleet confirm that this is the case. This constant armed status is a further indication that the Trident force is still geared up to a strategic nuclear exchange with Russia.
An epidemic of WISHFUL THINKING or HOAX MAINTENANCE? "A strategic nuclear exchange with Russia!" If the bomb was real I would say THE AUTHORS OF THIS EXPRESSION ARE EITHER NUTRITIONALLY DEFICIENT, OVERSOCIALIZED or PESSIMISMICALLY HOBBLED.
"GEARED UP" LOL.

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In the Cold War stand-off no time was allowed for loading missiles or warheads onto the submarines, they were kept armed at all times. Several submissions were made to the Strategic Defence Review advocating that warheads and missiles should be removed from the submarines and stored on land. However the Ministry of Defence has rejected these proposals. Their policy is still to have nuclear weapons ready for use at short notice.
Still, NO NUCLEAR ACCIDENTS, ACTS OF SUBMARINE BASED MUTINY/REBELLION, OR LAND-BASED NUCLEAR TERRORISM....EVER. Not bad. I wonder HOW THEY DO THAT? When I find out HOW THEY KEPT THE WORLD SAFE FROM NUCLEAR TERRORISM I will ask why THIS DEGREE OF PROFICENCE DID NOT TRANSLATE SO WELL INTO OTHER AREAS OF HUMAN CONCERN UNDER THE MANAGEMENT OF SKUNKS. The WORLD WAS SAFE FROM NUCLEAR TERRORISM BECAUSE" THE ABOMB IS A HOAX, always has. Think about "THAT" and YOU BE THE JUDGE.
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Further indication of the ongoing tension is the deployment of submarines to intercept missile submarines. It was reported that Russian submarines were sent to try to detect HMS Vanguard while it was carrying out trials. On the other hand it would appear that US hunter-killer submarines are still routinely stationed close to the Russian submarine bases. The Commander of the Russian Northern Fleet has objected to their presence. British hunter-killer submarines may also take part in these missions.
If A Bombs were real YOU WOULD NEED TO KNOW THE EXACT LOCATION OF EVERY SUBMARINE YOUR ADVERSARY "HAS REPORTED" HAVING...GOOD LUCK. Never initiate a major strike against your enemy's arms UNLESS YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY SURE each one IS ACCOUNTED FOR. One false assumption and, well, you see what I mean, BOOM in a very PUNISHING WAY, the WORST WAY ACTUALLY. If atom bombs were real of course.
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In the case of US nuclear forces, while the planning process now incorporates potential threats from anywhere, concern about Russia remains central - "Russia remains the focus of the Posture review not because its intentions are hostile, but because it currently controls the only nuclear arsenal that can physically threaten the survivability of US nuclear forces."29
THREE STRATEGICALLY DEPLOYED AND SIMULTAIOUSLY DETONATED NUKES COULD TECHNICALLY REMOVE THE SEAT OF POWER OF THE UNITED STATES AMERICA.SUBMARINES CAN PULL THIS KIND OF ATTACK AND GET AWAY WITH IT. So, it matters little is you have five or one thousand nuclear bombs. If you are KNEE DEEP IN GASOLINE, ONE MATCH WILL DO THE TRICK. A carton of matches MAKES NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. The logic of the military strategy implied in this quoted paragraph is TERRIBLY FLAWED. Any nuclear capable nation COULD BECOME A DEADLY OPPONANT, why not plan WITH ALL THE NATIONS IN MIND. Because that would not be manageable for the pragmatic scammers that run these extremely lucrative hoaxes. As long as the United States HAS ONE NUCLEAR ARMED SUBMARINE IN THE SEA AT ALL TIMES, all will be well. The submarine option would be the most cost effective deterrent if A Bombs were real and would make people wonder WHAT IS THE USE OF EXPLOITING OTHER NUCLEAR OPTIONS. Nuclear subs ARE THE ONLY PERFECT ATOMIC WEAPON. If the A Bomb existed, SUBMARINE DEPLOYMENT WOULD BE "MY TOP CHOICE" Lots of RETALIATORY DETERRENCE FOR THE BUCK so to speak.
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3.4 Alert status In the days of the V-bombers there were always several aircraft on Quick Reaction Alert, armed and ready for take off. Air Vice Marshall Bobby Robson said of the V- bombers "no-one could deny you were on a war footing".30 With Polaris, the submarine on patrol was at 15 minutes notice to fire its missiles. Commander Jeffrey Tall, Captain of HMS Repulse from 1989 to 1991, said "There was no doubt that when we went to sea we went to war".31
Not true, WHEN THEY WENT TO SEA, THEY WENT TO SEA, nothing more. I sure would have like to see the face of the mutinous submariner and his rebellious crew as the lob a nuke at the US, then another, and another and still, no atomic blast. Can you imagine THE HEAP OF TROUBLE those bozos would be in when the reached port for resupply? The submarine stumbling into port JUST TRIED TO DESTROY THE UNITED STATES WITH A "HOAX." The UNITED STATES MIGHT BE PLENTY ANGRY WITH THAT CREW OF DUMBASS NUCLEAR PIRATES, LOL. I really wonder how many times WANNABE NUCLEAR HOAXSTERS got busted BY THE BIG HOAXSTERS? I don't suppose the mainstream media would give IDEAS LIKE THAT much INK AND AIRTIME. Talk about a MAJOR THOUGHT CRIME.
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The Strategic Defence Review says that the Trident submarines "are routinely at a notice to fire measured in days".32 The submarine on patrol can be involved in hydrographic surveys, equipment trials and exercises with other vessels, so long as these tasks do not compromise its security. But the hair-trigger posture could be reintroduced at short notice - "Its readiness state could, however, be quickly increased if required".33
That will be the day. I wonder if JFK knew THE CUBAN CRISIS was over BOGUS PHYSICS? I think the SKUNKS-THAT-WERE would have kept him insulated. I wonder how many new VALIUM USERS were registered during and following THAT MISSILE CRISIS with the Soviet Union? The SKUNKS WERE "ON A ROLL."
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The Review failed to take the submarines off continuous patrol which would be the clearest indication of a lower state of readiness. With regard to the recent measures which have been taken, the Defence Secretary has said that "No physical changes to the missiles or guidance systems are involved" and that the submarine will remain "invisible and undetectable".
BUT THE PAYMENTS "WON'T BE INVISIBLE AND UNDETECTED" on the PAYCHEQUES OF THOSE PAYING FOR THEM. It's unbelievable HOW MANY THINGS the American worker PAYS FOR but NEVER SEES? I'll bet it's A LOT.
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34 Michael Clark says that it is "a procedural, rather than technical, change and is not capable of international verification".35 He also argues that de-alerting measures may be applied to parts of the large US and Russian arsenals, but not to the British nuclear force which he and the MoD regard as a minimum force. He says "the UK is not particularly sympathetic to the concept of dealerting".36 How are they with the concept of "DEBUNKING?"
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In 1994 an agreement was reached that the UK and Russia would no longer target each other. IT'S LIKE A BOARD GAME HYBRID CROSSING SCRABBLE(tm), MONOPOLY(tm), SOLITAIRE, AND RISK(tm). Let's call it SCRONOSOLISK. The Jew is playing Scronosolisk with the planet.
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Under this agreement the computer inside the missile will be set at coordinates in the South Atlantic. But, the co-ordinates of real targets are still held elsewhere on the submarine, in a disk drive in a computer connected to the missiles.37
The co-ordinates of THE TARGET were always the same, THE FREEDOM AND FRUITS OF THE LABORS OF THE WORLD'S WORKING MASSES.
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Military planners will assume that, in a time of crisis, radio communications with submarines could be disrupted.38 So, although a Trident submarine is capable of receiving targeting information by radio, lists of target data will be stored on board, in the Fire Control computers.39 According to a former US Trident missile technician, it takes only 3 minutes to transfer the data
from these computers into the missiles. Bruce Blair says that it takes 10 minutes to insert the target data and to accelerate the gyroscopes in the guidance system on the missile.40
It's the ATOMIC BLAST that TAKES A LITTLE TIME, LOL. Notes (notes from quoted source) 19. He also said that he would consider planning for "city bashing" to be immoral, Thinking about Nuclear Weapons, Michael Quinlan, RUSI Journal, Dec 1997 20. British Nuclear Targeting, Lawrence Freedman, in D Ball and J Richardson eds, Strategic Nuclear Targeting, 1986. 21. Moscow Criterion, BBC, Broadcast Jul 1995. 22. The Logic of Accidental Nuclear War, Bruce Blair, 1993, p122f 23. Moscow Criterion, BBC 24. The SDR said that ".. there is today no direct military threat to the United Kingdom or Western Europe. Nor do we foresee the re-emergence of such a threat". SDR Jul 1998, p5. With specific regard to the threat from a nuclear armed enemy the Defence Secretary has also said that "We do not see any immediate nuclear threats to the United Kingdom". Hansard 10 Jun 1998. With no enemies in sight George Robertson has identified a more abstract opposition: "The world is now a much more complex and confusing place. However, some people continue to say, who is the enemy now that the Warsaw pact has gone ? I have a clear answer for them - the enemy is the instability that can threaten the peace and prosperity that we now enjoy." Hansard 27 Oct 1997. The Defence Review identifies new risks - "drugs and organised crime", "new and horrifying forms of terrorism", "serious environmental degredation" and the vulnerabilities of information technology. It says "we must make sure that the Armed Forces can play as full and effective a part in dealing with these new risks as the old". The idea that we need Trident to respond to these new dangers in absurd - bu that does not mean that it is beyond the reasoning of the nuclear lobby. The Commander of the US Atlantic submarine fleet, Rear Admiral Roger Bacon, is on record as saying that Trident submarines and missiles were needed to act "as a defence against terrorism, drug trading and other global conflicts." 25. SDR p 16 26. SDR Essay 5, para 4 27. De-alerting and the UK Nuclear Deterrent, Michael Clarke, Centre for Defence Studies Bulletin, Oct 1998, p8. The former Defence Minister said "decisions about our force structures and postures should take into account what has proved hitherto to be successful in maintaining stability in the presence of Russia's military strength." UK Defence Strategy, A Continuing Role for Nuclear Weapons, Malcolm Rifkind, speech at Centre for Defence Studies, 16 Nov 1993, para 13 28. Hansard 28 Jul 1998 29. Nuclear Policy Review, 1995 Annual Defence Report, US DoD. This review also said that the US would have adequate weapons to "deter a hostile Russian government by holding at risk a range of assets valued by its political and military leaders." 30. Moscow Criterion, BBC 31. ibid 32. SDR Essay 5, para 12 33. Hansard Lords, 28 Jul 1998 34. Hansard 2 Nov 1998; Nuclear Disarmament in the Modern World, George Roberston, speech at Aberdeen University, 1 Mar 1999 35. Michael Clarke, op cit, p 8 36. ibid 37. Zero Alert for Global Nuclear Forces, Bruce Blair, Brookings, 1995, p87. This refers to the Fire Control system on US Trident submarines (MK98 Mod 4). The one on British submarines (Mk98 Mod 5) is almost identical 38. The film Crimson Tide gave a dramatic illustration of the implications of a failure in submarine communications. 39. In June 1997 the US Navy tendered for contracts for Power PCs and software for "evolving mission critical functions in support of Strategic Targeting System" for both US and UK Trident fire control systems. This provides a facility for rapid retargeting in addition to the main target sets. US Naval Surface Warfare Centre solicitation N00178-97-Q-0013 40. Zero Alert for Global Nuclear Forces, Bruce Blair, p87
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Ninpo
I cannot wade through all that. Could you explain in a nut shell why they want to hide it?
"OWK is an ancap kook... Ancaps are known to be unusually sensitive about their kookery." Necho
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cactus
(rebel) 10/21/04 11:27 PM

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I cannot wade through all that. It's a historic moment, TAKE THE TIME Ninpo.
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Could you explain in a nut shell why they want to hide it? I would be glad to but I am not sure I understand your question. What did you have in mind when you said, "they want to hide", hide what? Do you mind rewording your question, thanks.
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Ninpo
Why do they want to make up the fact that there was no atom bombs. Why do they make up these things? Is there a long term plan to keep things spun, as they are? Are there atom bombs now, or is that just made up?
"OWK is an ancap kook... Ancaps are known to be unusually sensitive about their kookery." Necho
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cactus
(rebel) 10/22/04 08:12 PM
Thanks Ninpo.
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Why do they want to make up the fact that there was no atom bombs. Actually they aren't, I am the one writing that there were no atom bombs. I did NOT MAKE THIS UP, it is based on the information available to me at this time and I draw many of my conclusions from THE EXTREME LACK OF CONSISTENCY IN THE OFFICIAL STORIES.
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Why do they make up these things? If you mean making up the story that the atom bomb is real I would answer that THEY did it for MONEY, CONTROL, FEAR, GENOCIDE. If you are asking why I am revising this history of the atom bomb is because I have been fascinated with this technology almost from infancy. I would hope also to be able to look my children in the face and assure them that, notwithstanding a naturally occuring global plague, humanity WILL NOT BE DESTROYED BY ATOM BOMBS. that THE PLANET, and THEIR FUTURE is NOT
COMPROMISED by this bomb insanity.

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Is there a long term plan to keep things spun, as they are? Oh, you mean HOAX MAINTENANCE. Sure, you see it everytime the ABomb is mentioned in the mainstream media, you see it in the military planning strategies, you see it in the ways THEY ARE PROGRESSIVELY LAUNDERING THE ABOMB HOAX WITH SCHEMES THAT CONVERT WEAPONS GRADE PLUTONIUM INTO AN INERT GLASSIFIED MOX-FUEL. I am sure that the skunks will continue to maintain the illusion THAT THEY ONCE HAD THE BOMB and THAT THEY WERE WISE ENOUGH TO RECOGNIZE THIS EVIL AND REMOVE IT FROM THE EARTH. See what I mean here? They are probably planning on taking credit for RIDDING THE PLANET OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS, as the SUPERIOR PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE. I am not certain but I suspect the world government (nations within a nations) recognize that the ABomb hoax is A REAL MESSY AFFAIR NOW THAT THE "WEB" HAS COME INTO THE PICTURE and they want to divorce themselves from it AND CREATE A FRESH NEW "HIGH PROFIT" BOOGEYMAN like the scalar electromagnetic weapons that exploit longitudinal magnetic waves to DRAW ENERGY FROM THE ETHER AND VOID OF SPACE AND MATTER. Another hoax perhaps, who knows? As far as KEEPING THINGS "SPUN AS THEY ARE" I would say that THEY CAN'T POSSIBLY AFFORD to leave the collections of messes that is the ABomb timeline UNCHANGED, it's TOO DAMNING. I can only make hypotheses from my point of view because I can't possibly imagine [WHAT THE SKUNKS ARE GOING TO DO TO GET OUT OF THIS ONE or explain this away. People will be upset when the final drop falls into the bucket and they realize that they have BEEN ROYALLY FLEECED, emotionally, financially and spiritually FOR NON-EXISTANT ABOMBS.
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Are there atom bombs now, or is that just made up? No atom bombs NOW or THEN. All made up. That's according to the best information at my disposal at this time. The evidence I have presented so far in this thread to support my statements is MOSTLY CIRCUMSTANTIAL. I think there exists irrefutable evidence that the ABomb is a hoax, this proof is to be found in THE HISTORICAL SEISMOLOGICAL RECORDS. Let me explain further.
Seismology is the science that studies earthquakes. Seismologists are those people examining the data harvested by their seismographs and correlating this data into a format that will illustrate degree of tremor and duration, things like that. Seiesmology traces it's timeline back to the 1755 Lisbon earthquake. At this time organized efforts were put in place to collect the data from the quake and draft models that would lead to the implementation of preventive measures. To many, the Lisbon quake was the beginning of seismology as AN ORGANIZED SCIENCE. Of course earthquakes were happening before organized science poured over the data and the intensity and duration of the tremors were analzed by THOSE FLEEING THE QUAKE, but the difference from LISBON ON was to mark the dawn of quake archives. After the Lisbon quake the world would have a clearer picture of the event and because of the organization of this science the world would HAVE HISTORICAL SEISMOGRAMS ON MANAGED ARCHIVES. Each quake examined TO DEATH. Now some might wonder WHAT DO SEISMOGRAMS HAVE TO DO WITH ABOMBS? Actually, seismograms and seismographic outposts WORLDWIDE have PLENTY TO DO WITH ABOMBS. Earthquakes and ABombs BOTH LEAVE SIGNATURES ON SEISMOGRAPHS. Lets look at this information from the Hiroshima/Nagasaki point of view. First question to ask is, DID JAPAN HAVE SEISMOLOGICAL OUTPOSTS TO RECORD QUAKES WHEN THE HIRO/NAGI ABOMBS WERE ALLEGEDLY DROPPED? One might also ask, HOW LONG HAS JAPAN HAD EARTHQUAKES?
The second question is the easiest to answer, YES, Japan has been rocked HARD by earthquakes for a VERY LONG TIME. The answer to the question of JAPAN'S SEISMOLOGICAL TIMELINE is found in the fact THAT JAPAN WAS A DISTINGUISHED PLAYER IN SEISMOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT AND "THE FIRST SEISMOLOGICAL PROFESSOR WAS A JAPANESE CITIZEN. Seikei Sekiya became the first person to be named professor in seismology and was also one of the first people to quantitively analyse seismic recordings from earthquakes.
Again in Japan in the late 1800s three English professors, John Milne, James Ewing, and Thomas Gray at The Imperial College of Tokyo, invented the first seismic instruments sensitive enough to be used in the scientific study of earthquakes. Another famous Japanese researcher from that period is Fusakichi Omori who, among other work, studied "THE RATE OF DECAY of AFTERSHOCK ACTIVITY following large earthquakes. His equations are STILL IN USE TO THIS DAY. So, we can clearly note that JAPAN IS NO STRANGER TO THE STUDY OF GROUND TREMORS." Ok, lets try and understand the dynamics of shockwave propagation as THEY APPLY TO GLOBAL DETECTION of GROUND TREMORS. Let me explain, let's take the quake in LOMA PIETA in the Santa Cruz mountains of California on October 18, 1989. This earthquake was about M7.1 on the Mercalli scale. This quake WAS RECORDED 8400km (about 5,200 miles) from there in KONGSBERG, NORWAY. In other words the seismological instruments ARE FAIRLY SENSITIVE. Are they sensitive enough to register an atomic blast? To answer this question we need to find a suitable conversion reference from KILOTONS to MERCALI SCALE. Without doing this conversion myself I found a paragraph nested in a web document that said THE HIROSHIMA BOMB WAS THE EQUIVALENT OF A M6.3 on the Mercalli scale. If it is true that the M7.1 of Loma Pieta in California was felt clear across to NORWAY, the Hiroshima blast at M6.3 should have been CLEARLY DETECTED BY A GREAT NUMBER OF SEISMIC DETECTION OUTPOSTS scattered across Japan. I have no more explanation for the ABSENCE OF THESE SEISMOGRAMS IN THE HISTORICAL DATA PRESENTED ON HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI THAN I DO FOR THE APPARENT SILENCE OF THE SEISMOLOGICAL SOCIETIES IN THIS REGARD. You find WATCHES THAT FROZE AT 8:15AM, you have MELTED GLASS BOTTLES and SHADOWS COOKED TO THE CONCRETE and FLYING SHRAPNEL FRAGMENTS IN BRICK WALLS but what you never see is THE SEISMOGRAM of the event itself. AN ODD OMMISSION. I think if anything can prove or disprove the authenticity of the atomic bomb IT'S THE SEISMOGRAMS.
Think about it, just about a week after the last so-called atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, over 800 B-29s firebombed Japan IN ONE DAY, August 15, 1945. It is said that THIS WAS A RECORD BREAKING AERIAL ASSAULT. Think about the SEISMOGRAPHIC READING FOR "THAT DAY ALONE." Imagine comparing THOSE READINGS with the READINGS OF HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI. I have never seen a seismological readout for an atomic blast but I SUPPOSE THE BLAST WAVE SIGNATURE MUST BE UNIQUE in it's DURATION and AMOUNT OF SEISMIC ENERGY emitted by the shock wave. If we take a serious look at the science of seismology as REPRESENTING AN IMPORTANT SOURCE OF EVIDENCE in the atom bomb hoax we immediately NOTE THE UNCHARACTERISTIC ABSENCE OF SUCH RECORDS FOR THESE TERRIBLY IMPORTANT SEISMOLOGICAL EVENTS.Why haven't these events been MORE VOCALIZED or MADE PUBLIC over the past 60
years? How can you KEEP THOUSANDS OF SEISMOLOGICAL OUTPOSTS QUIET ABOUT THEIR FINDINGS IN THIS MATTER. One thing for sure is that FORENSIC SEISMOLOGY is the BEST MEASURING STICK to establish the truth with regards to the atom bomb hoax. In the following chart you can observe THE EARTHQUAKE ACTIVITIES IN THE USSR back to THE TIMES BEFORE THE CHRIST. Look at this chart and note the absence of any colored circles FOR NOVAYA ZEMLYA (tsar bomba). Of course THERE WERE NO EARTHQUAKES THERE just something FAR WORST, the testing of a 50 MEGATON SUPER ATOM BOMB. The TSAR BOMBA they called it. The Tsar Bomba was not an earthquake BUT IF HIROSHIMA WAS THE EQUIVALENT OF M6.3 @ 20KT IMAGINE THE SEISMIC ACTIVITY @ 25,000KTs. The tsar Bomba that was alledgedly detonated on the island of Novaya Zemlya in Northern Russia SHOULD HAVE BENT THE SEISMOGRAPH NEEDLES ON EVERY OUTPOST FOR FOR MILES ALL AROUND THE EPICENTER. Although the tsar Bomba WAS NOT AN EARTHQUAKE you might expect THIS EVENT TO APPEAR ON QUAKE CHARTS OUT OF SHEER MAGNITUDE AND REFERENCE. No such luck. No one complained of BENT SEISMOGRAPH NEEDLES and no seismologists have come on TV to rant about the earth shattering power of atomic bombs. Well, they DID go public with the MYSTERIOUS AFTER SHOCKS in the towers of 9/11 but little else except earthquakes of course. Here is the Russian map and AS ALWAYS YOU BE THE JUDGE; for a bigger picture click HERE
"never let your feelings get you down..open up your eyes and look around, it's just an illusion"- Imagination
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ransomovitc h
(rookie) 11/04/04 11:41 PM
To Cactus and anyone else interested, I agree entirely with recent posts that nuclear weapons are a complete fraud. But they do exist. Yes, the bombs were dropped, but my intended book on the subject addresses the fact that we have been made to fear and worship an overtly exaggerated power. To date, there is no evidence at all to demonstrate that nuclear weapons possess any more power standard explosives. It was 20th century politician and philosopher H L Mencken who stated: The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed - and hence clamorous to be led to safety - by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. AlQueda being the current prime example. We have been made to fear weapons that were used 60 years ago on two Japanese cities that were actually constructed almost entirely out of paper and wood. Few people are aware of thuis fact or that these cities were chosen specifically by the powers that be to exact a 'shock and awe' tactic upon a watching world. And Boy! Did it work! Furthermore, over 70% of the deaths in those cities were due to incendiary injury. The very first test bomb at Trinity had roughly 5000 lbs of high explosive wrapped around the so-called secret device, so too did Fat-man, dropped over Nagasaki. How difficult is it to flatten a paper and wood city by simple fire? Take this quote from incendiary expert witness at Hiroshima and Nagasaki Alex de Seversky: Its [the bombs]effectiveness was increased by the incredible flimsiness of most Japanese structures, built of two-by-fours, termite-eaten and dry-rotted, and top-heavy with thick tile roofs. The wooden slats of the collapsed houses were piled like so much kindling wood in your fireplace. Fires flared simultaneously in thousands of places, from short circuits, overturned stoves, kerosene lamps and broken gas mains. The whole area burst into one fantastic bonfire. You decide what power was witnessed on those occasions. What I have yet to figure out is how Little Boy (dropped over Hiroshima) was powered. According to the tech spec for this bomb, it
used a different mechanism to initiate the 'atomic reaction'. There was only about 2 or 3 lbs of cordite 'on board' which, say the experts, was used to ram the plutonium up a shaft at high speed into a target pool of enriched uranium. This precipitated the explosion. At this moment in time, I do not believe for one second in any of the physics/chemistry jargon I have just used or in any of the so-called powers that Einstein, Rutherford et al are supposed to have harnessed. To me, they were 20th Century alchemists and fraudsters. But the conundrum remains: how did they cause an explosion over Hiroshima? Did they have explosives on board the bomb. Or is there any truth in the idea that power can be created by 'mixing and shaking' certain hallowed substances? Do I have to tear up my thesis? Steve
Post Extras:
Sh0t
(maverick) 11/05/04 01:02 PM
cake is tasty
http://www.fms.treas.gov/bulletin/index.html http://www.fms.treas.gov/fr/ http://www.fms.treas.gov/annualreport/index.html

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Sh0t
(maverick) 11/05/04 07:10 PM

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The implications of this are mind boggling. The entire cold war - a gigantic game of bluff! Or do you think the two sides perhaps colluded in perpetrating this hoax?
I don't know about the atomic bomb stuff, but the Cold War was indeed a hoax. The soviet union was run from Wall Street from cradle to grave. The american tax payer basically funded both sides of the Cold War(and it intensified during Vietnam sadly).

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Fred25
[ To: Sh0t | Post 293079262, reply to 293079247 ] (Score: 2)
That's a typical modern Commie attitude.

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cactus
(rebel) 11/05/04 10:39 PM
[ To: ransomovitch | Post 293079572, reply to 293076938 ] (Score: 1)
Thanks for your post ransomovitch and welcome to Liberty Forum.

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I agree entirely with recent posts that nuclear weapons are a complete fraud.
Could be the WORLD'S BIGGEST FRAUD ever known.

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But they do exist. According to the math this would be a correct statement, THEY DO EXIST AND APPEAR FUNCTIONAL ON PAPER at least.
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Yes, the bombs were dropped, but my intended book on the subject addresses the fact that we have been made to fear and worship an overtly exaggerated power. I don't know if they actually dropped the Little Boy and Fat Man bombs into the sea or if they were delivered along with several dozen or more conventional incendiary bombs. Recall the model of the city of Hiroshima that is on display for the public in Japan, these before and after maquettes were posted earlier in this thread and they suggest to me that the damage was inconsistent with ANY CONFIGURATION of the so-called Little Boy atomic weapon. The damage is more consistent with firebombing and perhaps special synchronized demolition ops at ground level. The ABSENCE OF ODOR RECORDS is very telling of the degree of censorship involved in these hoaxes. I suspect we have been made to fear and worship a power that simply DOES NOT EXIST in the real world. Below you will see an identical set of geometric shapes that represent a mathematical paradox. The second of these geometric shapes is different from the first ONLY IN THE INTERNAL CONFIGURATION of IDENTICAL SHAPES WITHIN THE WHOLE yet ONE SMALL SQUARE REMAINS UNACCOUNTED FOR in the second geometric shape. Where did that space come from?
It could be that the atom bomb fizzled out and NEVER WORKED because of similar paradoxes withing the framework of the math that predicts a destructive chain reaction. So many of the variables in these formulas could have a NESTED PARADOX that was overlooked or outright ignored. I am not a mathematician nor have I had much exposure to the FULL SET OF FORMULAS AND MATH but I do not think I need to be one to appreciate the expectation-busting traits of the
mathematical paradoxes.
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To date, there is no evidence at all to demonstrate that nuclear weapons possess any more power standard explosives I have not seen any evidence at all that nuclear weapons possess ANY POWER AT ALL when translated from the math to the real world.
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It was 20th century politician and philosopher H L Mencken who stated: The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed - and hence clamorous to be led to safety - by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. You don't really need atom bombs to generate that type of fear. When you think the whole world was made compliant with THE ILLUSION OF ATOM BOMBS you can imagine how A FAIRLY WELL ORGANIZED CARPET BOMBING RAID Desden-style WILL MAKE COMPLIANT CITIZENS OF THE SURVIVORS. An Abrams tank or any tank for that matter can make one wish he had something as manageable as a boogey man to deal with. Plenty of boogeymen left after the ABomb has been debunked.
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We have been made to fear weapons that were used 60 years ago on two Japanese cities that were actually constructed almost entirely out of paper and wood. As you may already know, Japan is a busy earthquake zone. For this reason you can imagine they had at least a few earthquake-hardenned buildings where activities sensitive to the government were housed. The destruction models of Hiroshima indicate the presence of a few such buildings that stood after the firebombing. Not having heard from the Japanese historical seismological societies on this matter it is very hard to estimate the shock those buildings were subjected to. Those people manning the seimological stations in and around Hiroshima and Nagasaki KNOW EXACTLY HOW SIMILAR THESE BOMBINGS WERE TO THOSE RECORDED ELSEWHERE IN JAPAN DURING THE OVER ONE THOUSAND FIREBOMBING RAIDS OF THE ALLIES. Why have these people remained silent all these years about their findings on those historical moments? You would imagine the two very exclusive seismological events would have been discussed at length at the seismological society annual meetings for decades following those socalled atomic blasts. No newspaper interviews with Japanese seismologists or anything, it's like they don't exist, but they do and they have the forensic evidence to put this matter to rest.
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Few people are aware of thuis fact or that these cities were chosen specifically by the powers that be to exact a 'shock and awe' tactic upon a watching world. From what I have seen in print and media, the atomic targets were chosen for reasons they made public or became public and I suspect many, many other reasons we will find out in the future, maybe never. One thing is certain and that is the targets had to be sophisticated enough to understand the complicated nature of these weapons yet not too smart. The ABomb hoaxsters had major concerns about being detected. The target populations had to be under some kind of strict control and censorship otherwise how do we explain the absence of odors in the official reports and the absence of seismologists in the public eye. I believe the hoaxsters sought out the best targets by following those intellectual guidelines. Not too smart to find ways to get the truth out yet smart enough to understand these sophisticated new weapons. In the final analysis we find that the opinions of the general populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were muted out almost entirely. Muted out COMPLETELY were it matters most.
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And Boy! Did it work! Zillions of dollars fleeced from the working masses of the planet. People were forbidden from owning cheap efficient energy in the form of "SLOW-POKE" type home nuclear reactors because of atomic terror concerns. Sometimes as I browse through the A Bomb timeline my attention comes back to the importance of the first time an atomic pile went critical. This was the dawn of nuclear energy for the world and one might be inclined to think MANY WERE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS NEW POTENTIAL FOR CHEAP INDIVIDUAL ENERGY that they designed the ABomb
hoax to OBSTRUCT THIS AWESOME CIVILIAN POTENTIAL. I have touble imagining the skunks remaining passive in the face of this radical new development. Many fortunes are resting on the energy portfolio, many fortunes to be lost if man acheives ENERGY INDEPENDANCE. Whatever the case if we can prove the ABomb to be a hoax BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT then perhaps we can reopen the home nuclear energy debates. While most people stood in front of their television sets in complete awe with the atomic destruction I was counting the gigawatts of wasted energy that could have been used by entire communities for years.
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Furthermore, over 70% of the deaths in those cities were due to incendiary injury I don't know where you got this figure but I see no reason to dispute it. Horrific way to die, a genuine holocaust that is the direct result of giving wings to skunks. Skunks SHOULD BE PERMANENTLY GROUNDED. Spiritually hobbled trash.
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The very first test bomb at Trinity had roughly 5000 lbs of high explosive wrapped around the socalled secret device, so too did Fat-man, dropped over Nagasaki. That's A LOT OF PLASTIC EXPLOSIVE. I remember watching those old black and white movies where the burglar breaks into a bank at night and blows the door right off the face of the safe with a small slab of C4 type plastic explosive.Now 5000 pounds, that's a lot. Can you imagine the damage if the twin towers on New York had ALL THAT C4 instead of jetfuel? Major potions of downtown New York would have been flattenned and everyone, including the skunks would be screaming atomic terrorism.
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You decide what power was witnessed on those occasions. What I have yet to figure out is how Little Boy (dropped over Hiroshima) was powered. According to the tech spec for this bomb, it used a different mechanism to initiate the 'atomic reaction'. There was only about 2 or 3 lbs of cordite 'on board' which, say the experts, was used to ram the plutonium up a shaft at high speed into a target pool of enriched uranium. This precipitated the explosion.
This is the first I have heard that plutonium would have been used in Little Boy. Do you have a source for this information as this can help me understand Leo Szilard's role in the design. I have always read that it was ENRICHED URANIUM that recombined with ENRICHED URANIUM and I was led to believe that Little Boy was a Uranium 235 hammer design. Never a single mention of plutonium for Little Boy.
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At this moment in time, I do not believe for one second in any of the physics/chemistry jargon I have just used or in any of the so-called powers that Einstein, Rutherford et al are supposed to have harnessed. To me, they were 20th Century alchemists and fraudsters I have my reservations about Einstein and many in his circle but Rutherford made significant advances that led to the first atomic pile going critical. Atomic energy is not a hoax and both Einstein and many others helped things along in this area but the fact that sich a so-called genius suspended his capacity for critical reasoning to accomodate this hoax and start the wheels turning with his letter to president Roosevelt expressing his confidence in the succes of this exercise in wishful thinking. This is what I have against the Einstein Jew. The fact that Einstein is accused of plagiarism does not negate the possibility that he actually assimilated a lot of the material he took credit for. Time will tell WHAT HIS FULL ROLE WAS AND WHAT HE REALLY KNEW ABOUT THE HOAX ITSELF. Maybe Einstein was not a great fan of notions involving mathematical paradoxes.
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But the conundrum remains: how did they cause an explosion over Hiroshima? The Japanese historical institutes and societies of forensic seismology have the evidence we seek. The seismological shockwave records have duration signatures for those fateful days in August of 1945 that could potentially represent a sort of atomic DNA test. I would like to compare the seismographs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with those of THE OVER ONE THOUSAND FIREBOMB RAIDS THROUGHOUT JAPAN FOR THIS PERIOD. I am not a gambling man but I would wager that
the signatures are all DISTURBINGLY SIMILAR IF NOT EXACTLY THE SAME THROUGHOUT.
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Did they have explosives on board the bomb I would estimate several dozen incendiary bombs with or without Little Boy and Fat Man.
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Or is there any truth in the idea that power can be created by 'mixing and shaking' certain hallowed substances? Atomic energy is NO HOAX and it is THE RESULT OF MIXING AND SHAKING CERTAIN HALLOWED SUBSTANCES. If nuclear reactors are hoaxes, I give up LOL.
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Do I have to tear up my thesis? I try and conserve all my milestones on the road to the truth. The thought of tearing them up never comes to mind because I like to think of them building blocks. Tear it if you must but I would like to read it.
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cactus
(rebel) 11/05/04 11:08 PM

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cake is tasty Agreed.
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Sh0t
(maverick) 11/06/04 03:40 AM
[ To: Fred25 | Post 293079799, reply to 293079262 ] (Score: 1)
Call it what you like, it's true. Commies hate these facts because it makes their "people's uprising" really a conspiracy of Wall Street bankers to get themselves monopoly concessions in Russia. Lenin, Trotsky, et al, were financed by Wall Street.

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Magician
Cactus, you belong in a mental institution. In the back ward with the guy who thinks he is Napolean Bonaparte. I suggest that you go to Hiroshima and tell the Japanese there that the A-bomb is a hoax. They will be glad to put you in one of theirs.
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cactus
(rebel) 11/06/04 04:54 AM

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Cactus, you belong in a mental institution. Your Bolshevism is showing.

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In the back ward with the guy who thinks he is Napolean Bonaparte. You're all mixed up thinking of that that Jew that used to think he was Christian White trash and laundered over 600 murders for unknown parties. I think his name was Henri Lee Lucas or something like that and you can't put me anywhere near him because he IS DEAD.
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I suggest that you go to Hiroshima and tell the Japanese there that the A-bomb is a hoax. With the internet, HIROSHIMA CAN JUST AS EASILY COME TO LIBERTY FORUM DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY. Judging by the view counter I would not discount the possibility that THEY ALREADY HAVE.
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They will be glad to put you in one of theirs. Or perhaps they would assist me in my seismological research as it applies to the atom bomb hoax. You assume a great many things.
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ransomovitc h
(greenhorn) 11/06/04 12:27 PM
Magician, your response is emotional and runs contrary to rational debate. You stated: Cactus, I suggest that you go to Hiroshima and tell the Japanese there that the A-bomb is a hoax. You obviously haven't a clue as to the history of the A bomb. You have been taught what to think about atomic power, not how to think about the subject. Steve :
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ransomovitc h
(tenderfoot) 11/06/04 12:31 PM
Cactus states: > > Nuclear weapons could be the WORLD'S BIGGEST FRAUD ever known. > > No. That must surely go to man's belief in HIV, the moonlandings and > evolution. > >Cactus states: I have not seen any evidence at all that nuclear weapons possess ANY POWER > AT ALL when translated from the math to the real world. > > Agreed.
Cactus states: I don't know where you got the figure 70% of the > deaths in those cities were due to incendiary injury > but I see no reason to dispute it. > > I was 10% out. The exact figures as recorded at the Manhattan Engineers > report website at http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/atomic/hiroshim/hiro_med.htm > are as follows: burns 60%, falling debris 30% other 10% > >Cactus states: This is the first I have heard that plutonium would have been used in Little > Boy. Do you have a source for this information as this can help me > understand Leo Szilard's role in the design. I have always read that it was > ENRICHED URANIUM that recombined with ENRICHED URANIUM and I was led to > believe that Little Boy was a Uranium 235 hammer design. Never a single > mention of plutonium for Little Boy. You are right.It was Uranium. Have you > read this report at http://www.fortfreedom.org/p22.htm from Bernard L. > Cohen, Department of Physics, University of Pittsburgh?Look at > the condensed opening para below. > >"Plutonium is constantly referred to by the news media as ``the most toxic > substance known to man.'' Ralph Nader has said that a > pound of plutonium could cause 8 billion cancers, and former > > Senator Ribicoff has said that a single particle of plutonium > > inhaled into the lung can cause cancer. There is no scientific > > basis for any of these statements as I have shown in a paper in > > the refereed scientific journal Health Physics (Vol. 32, pp. > > 359-379, 1977). I offered to eat as much plutonium as Nader would eat of > caffeine, which my paper shows is comparably > > dangerous, or given reasonable TV coverage, to personally inhale > > 1000 times as much plutonium as he says would be fatal, or in > > response to former Senator Ribicoff's statement to inhale 1000 > > particles of plutonium of any size that can be suspended in air. > > My offer was made to all major TV networks but there has never > > been a reply beyond a request for a copy of my paper. Yet the > > false statements continue in the news media and surely 95% of the > > public accept them as fact although virtually no one in the > > radiation health scientific community gives them credence." END QUOTE > > > > > > Cactus states:I have my reservations about Einstein and many in his circle but Rutherford > made significant advances that led to the first atomic pile going critical. > > > > Please prove that. I think this 'going critical' is just buying into the > whole alchemic speil.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
Cactus states: Atomic energy is not a hoax and both Einstein and many others helped things along in this area.
Likewise, please prove that.
Steve
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cactus
(rebel) 11/06/04 06:49 PM

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Nuclear weapons could be the WORLD'S BIGGEST FRAUD ever known. No. That must surely go to man's belief in HIV, the moonlandings and evolution. All I can comment on at this point is the impact of the atom bomb hoax. I hear stories about HIV being a man made synthetic pseudo race weapon but far too many CCR5 32- profiles have been infected and if it was designed as a genetic bioweapon to target CCR5 32+ it appears to have failed to remain contained within that racial perimeter. I have made very little research on HIV but from what I have gathered thus far I can see lots of hostility towards those that expound theories that clash with the official line on HIV. If this hostility towards the authors of these HIV revisions is indication that the criticism of the skeptics is founded I would not know. You doubt the moonlandings? I don't know what to say about that because I can't recall anything remotely similar to "a smoking gun" in that story. Maybe you could initiate a thread on this subject. I would be interested in knowing why it is thought that the moonlandings never occurred. I have had my doubts about the evolution theories. I don't know if the examples you used really stack up against the public impact of the atom bomb hoax nor do I think that the combined financial toll on the public for HIV, moonlandings or theories of evolution has surpassed the pricetag for non-existant atomic weapons and production facilities and uranium mining. I would be glad to examine any statistical figures or monetary tallies in support of your comparitive model. Let's submit THE WHOLE COLLECTION OF MESSES TO THE GUINESS BOOK OF WORLD RECORDS AND LET THEM DECIDE, LOL. I can only imagine the look on their faces at the prospect OF THAT TASK.
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Plutonium is constantly referred to by the news media as ``the most toxic substance known to man.'' That's exactly what I keep reading and hearing, that ONE GRAM COULD POTENTIALLY CAUSE CANCER IN EVERY HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET. Something about one FIVE-BILLIONTH OF A GRAM being enough, when inhaled into the lungs, to induce cancer. It is reported that this tiny five-billionth of a gram can destroy 10,000 healthy cells in it's alpha particle generating radius in a very short time. I have never met a single person that was exhibiting symptoms of radiation poisoning from ANY SOURCE but then again I don't hang around radioactive substances. So you think that the poisoning death by radioactivity exposure of Marie Currie was bogus? We might need a thread to examine ALL THAT MORE CLOSELY. I have an open mind but I don't think I have found any evidence to dispute the fact that you can draw mountains of energy from uranium. The energy demands of the Western Hemisphere have risen so much that we could potentially be mourning the passage of clean air if electricity were still generated by burning coal. Interesting any way you look at it. I would like to read more about the reasons you think nuclear energy ITSELF is a hoax. I recently commented to someone that they should not expect the debunking of hoaxes to occur in a nice orderly predictable manner and NOW IT IS I THAT IS
OVERWHELMED AT THE MIND BOGGLING POSSIBILITIES IMPLIED BY YOUR STATED OPINIONS. So, to answer you last questions, NO I can't prove the existance of nuclear energy beyond my belief that present day energy requirements WOULD NOT BE MET WITHOUT THEM. If nuclear energy does not exist, where is ALL THAT ENERGY COMING FROM?
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ransomovitc h
(tenderfoot) 11/07/04 01:11 AM
OK Cactus. here are some interesting links. I have to declare a certain interest though. These articles are penned by me. The fraud of HIV at http://www.davidicke.net/medicalarchives/aids/aidspop.html Fraud of foot and mouth at http://www.blancmange.net/tmh/articles/fmd.shtml The fraud of genetics and gene research at http://www.oikos.org/ecology/genes.htm
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cactus
(rebel) 11/07/04 02:03 AM
Now for something on THE JEWS OF JAPAN. Throughout this thread I have been highly critical of the role of the Jew in the promulgation of the ATOM BOMB HOAX. This may have led to feelings that this criticism was not justified BECAUSE JEWS WERE SO MUCH OUTSIDE OF JAPANESE LIFE AT THAT TIME. With the following text that I have imported from The Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs in Israel. I hope to shed new light in this area and, by way of my comments and opinions give more depth and relevance to some of HISTORY'S MOST CONTRADICTORY ISSUES. This analysis IS FAIRLY LONG AND CRITICAL OF THE JEW but once again I feel that EVERY BIT OF IT IS WORTH LOOKING AT and debating. THE JEWS OF JAPAN Daniel Ari Kapner and Stephen Levine No. 425 24 Adar I 5760 / 1 March 2000
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Jews in Japan No one - apart perhaps from a few Japanese who see themselves as descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel - would think of Japan as in any sense a Jewish homeland. When one recalls that Japan was NAZIS Germany's ONLY ALLY for the duration of that GENOCIDE MASQUERADING AS WORLD WARII, you have to wonder WHY THE JEWS WOULD WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH JAPAN AND WHY JAPAN WAS THE ONLY NATION ACCEPTING JEWS?
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Yet among the many shrines and temples, Shinto and Buddhist, there stand occasional monuments to Jewish commitment and endeavor. As ever, this is part of a heritage in which hope and despair, longing and sacrifice, war and struggle, have all been mingled together.
I wonder if ALL THOSE SEISMOLOGICAL OUTPOSTS IN JAPAN and more particularily near Hiroshima and Nagasaki are considered a JEWISH COMMITMENT AND ENDEAVOR TOO?
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Certainly this is true of Tokyo, whose Jewish community rose improbably out of the ashes of Allied victory. Funny how ALL THINGS JEWISH EMERGE FROM CARNAGE AND DESTRUCTION AND DEATH. I would rephrase that to read, whose Jewish community rose PREDICTABLY out of the ashes of the Allied victory.
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Probably there were more Jews in Japan during the postwar American Occupation than at any other time in the country's long history. I will bet there are FAR MORE JEWS IN IRAQ today following THE GANG RAPE THEY CALLED "LIBERATION" than at any other time in THAT country's long history. Massacres.. Jews, massacre..more Jews emerge, it's a vicious cycle of genocide. The skunks thrive on anguish, death and despair.
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Although the Occupation ended in 1952, an American military presence persists, with armed forces based in Okinawa as well as at other facilities. The decades-old high incidence of rape and general thuggery would tend to confirm this fact.
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As a result, American Jews, both men and women, remain in Japan, able to take part in Jewish life if they wish to do so. The skunks SHOWER THE LOCAL PEOPLE WITH IGNITED GASOLINE THEN THEY MUSCLE-IN AND TAKE OVER. ALL FEAR DRIVEN AND MILKED FOR EVERY PENNY THE SUFFERING CAN GENERATE.
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At Yokosuka naval base near Tokyo, for instance, there is a small "chapel," complete with Torah scroll, which is used on the High Holy Days and on other occasions. It would not be surprising if on these days the number of Jews worshiping at American military facilities were comparable to the numbers taking part in services at Japan's two synagogues, in the capital, Tokyo, and in western Japan (Kansai) in the port city of Kobe. In otherwords "DUG-IN LIKE AN ALABAMA TICK." Who would'a thought?
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Although Japan may be regarded as quite removed from Jewish life, the country has had its own rich Jewish history. If some Japanese citizens claim to have roots back to the 13th tribe of Kazars I would say Japan is NOT SO REMOVED from Jewish life and history after all. Almost like DNA BUDDIES..
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Here can be glimpsed distinctive Jewish values as well as significant and unique ties to the wider Japanese society. Financial bondage no doubt.
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At present, the Tokyo and Kobe Jewish communities make it possible for Jews of many different backgrounds - teachers of English, visiting business people, itinerant students and travelers, Israeli jewelry dealers, American tourists - to observe festivals and holidays, to keep the Sabbath, and to preserve their ties to the community, their faith, and one another. DUG-IN LIKE AN ALABAMA TICK. Origins: Nagasaki and Yokohama
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Although Jewish travelers are known to have entered Japan with Portuguese and Dutch merchants as early as the sixteenth century, Jews did not permanently settle in Japan until after Commodore Perry's arrival there in 1853. The Jews are no strangers to Japan. A fact lost on the mainstream view of things. Japan Jews were out of the public eye until only recently (I am sure that some academians may have had access to this information but my contention is that it was not "common knowledge" in the public sense). Commador Perry and an American fleet arrived in isolated Japan in 1853 and forced it to open trade with the outside world. Observe how JEWS THRIVE IN THE WAKE OF ORGANIZED VIOLENCE AND COERCIVE FORCE.
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The first Jewish settler came to Yokohama - near Tokyo - in 1861. The earliest Jewish tombstone dates from only four years later. By 1895 this community, which developed to about 50 families, was able to dedicate Japan's first synagogue. This is about 84 years before Hiroshima and Nagasaki got firebombed in 1945. The Jews had potential agents ON SITE to help them streamline the hoax and silence the public where applicable. Of course you would find the JEWS TREATING THE WOUNDED AND FILING CONVENIENT REPORTS. If Japanese people can carry Kazar DNA they can also exhibit every dispicable trait (makes the Death March of Bataan easier to understand) and could have successfully controlled the seismology facilities in Japan and sealed them tight. If you were to imagine the earth as having an identity like a human being you could SAY THAT THE SEISMOLOGICAL OUTPOSTS OF THE PLANET WHEN LINKED TOGETHER FORM A PSEUDOGAIA TYPE NEURAL NETWORK SENSITIVE TO THE SLIGHTEST TREMOR OVER VAST DISTANCES. Of course this is the best metaphor I could find at present to get the idea across that THIS PLANETARY NEURAL NETWORK IS SENSITIVE TO ALL THE PLANET'S SHOCK WAVES IN THE GROUND. Seismology could potentially have been controlled globally since a very long time by JEWS OF EVERY NATIONALITY WORLDWIDE to conceal the evidence that could contradict the publicized version of any given incident that would give rise to eruptionlike waves through the ground. Things like FAKE ATOMIC UNDERGROUND OR SURFACE BLASTS.
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While the community was never large, the foreigners' cemetery in Yokohama exhibits its diversity through tombstones etched in Hebrew, German, French, Russian, German, and Japanese. I'd sure like to see the layout of that cemetary.
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Jews also settled in Nagasaki during the 1880s. As a significant Japanese port, the city was more accessible to Jews fleeing from Russian pogroms. Potential Jewish insiders in Nagasaki too. How come the Jews don't have any memorials to the Jews that fell victim to the so-called atomic bombs? Those Jews are DAMN LUCKY. Always out of harm's way.
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Accordingly, the Nagasaki community, with about 100 families, was soon larger than the one in Yokohama. Grows LIKE A PLAGUE.
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The Beth Israel Synagogue - which used to be depicted on Rosh Hashanah greeting cards sold at the Tokyo synagogue - was built in 1894. There is also a Hebrew section in its foreigners' cemetery. One can only wonder WHAT A STATISTICAL ANALYSIS OF THE BURIALS IN THAT CEMETARY WOULD HAVE LOOKED LIKE AT THE TIME.
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Although the Nagasaki community was regarded as an active one, during the Russo-Japanese
War of 1904-5 the community disintegrated, passing its Torah scroll to the Jews of Kobe, a group of Jewish soldiers and recently freed prisoners of war who had participated in the Czar's army and the Russian revolution of 1905. So, THAT'S WHERE THOSE BOLSHEVIST FILTH WERE HIDING. Who would have guessed? What's up WITH JAPAN SO EAGERLY HARBORING THE WORLD'S FLEEING GENOCIDAL SKUNKS? The SINO-JUDAO roots MUST RUN DEEP FOR COOPERATION LIKE THAT TO BECOME POSSIBLE.
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One of the most esteemed members of this group was Joseph Trumpeldor, who lost an arm during the Russo-Japanese War and was later to become one of the genuine heroes of the Zionist movement for his role in the formation of the Jewish defense forces in Palestine. Gotta love THOSE HEROS OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT. The bloodier and bolder they are the more worshipped they become.
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The great earthquake of 1923 that destroyed most of Tokyo had a major effect on Jewish life in Japan as well. Until that time the most active Jewish community in Japan was in Yokohama. Following the earthquake the community moved to Kobe, which then had about 50 families. I leave it to the reader to decide if quoted figure of 50 families is exact. Jews are notorious for DOWNSIZING their reported population numbers to blend in seemlessly. People usually get the correct numbers when it is too late and the infection is deep. 70 is the magic number for Jewish infiltration cells not 50. They are VERY SUPERSTITIOUS ABOUT NUMBERS. At times this obsession numerical correctness becomes the achilles heel that hobbles their group stealth and cover.
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Kobe and Tokyo During the early to middle 1900s, the Kobe community was composed largely of Jews from Russia, the Middle East, and Germany. It might be interesting to examine a printout of the occupation (job) of each one of these immigrant Jews while residing in Japan. Sure looks like THE JEWS OF THE WORLD GET ALONG FINE. Four-corners-of-the-world type friendliness and cooperation. We are still MANY DECADES IN TIME AHEAD OF LITTLE BOY AND FAT MAN AT THAT TIME.
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In most cases, the Russian Jews had arrived in Japan via the Manchurian city of Harbin, which had three synagogues, a Jewish school, and a population of about 30,000 Jews. The OMNIPRESENT DIASPORIC INTERNATIONALIST JEW. The Jews can MOVE AROUND THE WORLD WITH GREAT AGILITY AND STEALTH. They have cooperative networks worldwide that date back very far.
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The Middle Eastern Jews, known as "Baghdadi Jews," originally came to Kobe from present-day Iraq and Syria, as well as from Yemen, Iran, and other areas in Central Asia and the Middle East. Japan is starting to emerge from this story looking like AN INTERNATION CLEARING HOUSE FOR THE WORLD'S FLEEING JEWS. They sure chose a good spot to hide, I certainly would not of thought of looking for them THERE.
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Perhaps the most prominent family among them was the Sassoons, known as the "Rothschilds of the East." I can just image the Sassoon skunks managing Hitler's ONLY ALLY while the Rothschild skunk manages Hitler. One thing for sure is that BOTH GERMANY AND JAPAN HAD PASSIONS FOR PRESERVING JEWISH LIVES AND KEEPING THEM OUT OF HARM'S WAY. The alliance between Japan and Germany is shaping up to become interesting as time passes. The hoax crosswalks are intersecting a MAJOR ARTERY.
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Other Jews came to Japan from Central and Eastern Europe, and particularly from Germany. While some emigrated for economic reasons, others responded to changing developments during the 1930s. HOW MANY is anyone's guess. Everybody knows that THERE IS NO LIMIT to the number of Jews that could have taken up residence in Japan AT ANY GIVEN TIME.
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The Tokyo community - now Japan's largest - was slower to develop. Indeed, the Japanese capital only became an important center of Jewish life with the arrival of the American Jewish servicemen. Naturally the JEWS WAITED FOR THE BOMBING TO CEASE BEFORE SETTING UP SHOP IN THE RUINS AND REBUILDING TO THEIR TASTES UNDER THE AUSPICES OF A BENEVOLENT ARMY THAT SMASHED THIS PEOPLE TO SMITHERINES TO OPEN THE DOORS OF OPPORTUNITY FOR THESE AND OTHER JEWS. The Jews always consolidate their fortunes on the bones of the victims of their genocidal obsessions.
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From the postwar period through to the present, small numbers of Jews regularly arrive from the United States and Western Europe for business, academic, or professional reasons. Some would call this LEBESRAUM, in other words, " EXPANSIONISM AT THE EXPENSE AND SUFFERING OF OTHERS."
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The Tokyo community has a higher profile than Kobe, and the presence of the Israeli Embassy in the capital also may give members some additional opportunities for cultural and social activities. The Jewish Community of Japan, Tokyo's central representative body, is affiliated with the World Jewish Congress. In addition to the synagogue, the community center houses a Hebrew school, library, and recreational facilities. Friday night and Saturday services are followed by a kosher communal meal. The community premises, when launched, also included a Jewish Club, with a billiards room and other amenities. They make themselves COMPLETELY AT HOME in the rubble of their genocidal purges. This Nation THAT WAS THE ONLY ALLY OF A NATION THAT THE JEWS CLAIM MASSACRED 6 MILLION OF THERE COMERADES UNDER THE FOULEST CONDITIONS. This is just more of the "Jews driving Mercedes automobiles" phenomenon, don't the Jews know that those cars are made in Germany? The home of the regime they say wanted to wipe them off the face of the earth! There is something very fishy in all this.
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Each community is organized along familiar constitutional lines. For instance, the Kobe community is organized as the Jewish Community of Kansai, with a General Committee consisting of a President, Vice-President, Treasurer, Secretary, and House Committee Chairman. The Constitution requires at least one General Meeting every six months as a well as a monthly meeting of its Committee. As in other small communities, the importance of these constitutional principles and procedures to members has faded except at moments of communal controversy. THE NATION WITHIN A NATION. The plague that undermines freedom and life at every turn at every opportunity to secure a profit or material interest.
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Communal membership is open to "all persons of the Jewish Faith 18 years of age and over, who are recognized permanent or semi-permanent residents." Although there are procedures to recommend that members "resign" from the community, the Kobe Constitution also stipulates that "under no condition shall a member of the Jewish Faith be denied the right to worship at the Synagogue." The Jews of Kobe are represented by the Jewish Community of Kansai, which is also affiliated with the World Jewish Congress. VERY WELL ORGANIZED. The swarm instinct at it's finest expression. I can only estimate that Japan has been fully compromised by now. I think one would be hard pressed to find a single nation on the face of this planet that has not been fully compromised to date. I used to think Japan was one such refuge from organized Jewry but I was deluding myself.
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There was substantial damage to the Kobe synagogue during the 1995 earthquake, but the structure was completely repaired. One of the two tablets of the Ten Commandments over the Ark was damaged but has since been replaced. Is this the Ark everybody is looking for in the Ark of the Covenant thread? Unfortunately for the Jew, earthquakes don't discriminate and CAN'T BE BRIBED. If, however, the clever Jew is well connected with the seismological outposts and these have DECENT FORECASTING ABILITIES then, under those circumstances the earthquake could become an instrument of genocide if the Jews flee to a safe distance without informing the nonJews. We may discover more on this as we eventually delve further into the historical seismological readings and this global network of temor detection sensors. I have heard of transducers installed deep on the ocean's floor that produce seismological readings that are uploaded longitudinally in radio data-streams to designated submarines at regular intervals. I have been led to believe that we have very many such submersed seismic detection devices worldwide. Like that pseudo-neural network I wrote about earlier.
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The services in Kobe and Tokyo are a mixture of traditional and modern. The Kobe synagogue, Ohel Shelomoh, was built in 1970, not far from the Kobe Club, set up for foreign residents in the city's attractive Kitano section. You NEVER LEARN THIS TYPE OF INFORMATION IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS. I SERVED many LONG hours in those public school gulags of mindless conformity and NEVER ONCE did I hear of Jews in Japan. I have a large number of encyclopedias and reference hardcovers in history and culture and NOT ONE TALKS OF JAPANESE JEWS. I admit I have not read every inch of every reference book I have but one thing for sure is that after reading this article I KNOW FOR SURE I WOULD HAVE COME ACROSS THIS INFORMATION IF IT HAD BEEN MADE AVAILABLE IN THOSE BOOKS. Jews controlled the printed media exclusively for a very long time and it would appear that the Western general public is to remain ignorant about Jews in Japan but inside Israel it's OK to bring up the subject. I could be mistaken here but this is the message I get in this.
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An earlier synagogue was destroyed in air raids during World War II. Note the absence of a name for this so-called destroyed synagogue.
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The community conducts its services largely according to Sephardic practice, reflecting the origins of its founders, although most of the Jews attending services are usually Ashkenazim. Flexibility is the Jew's middle name. Anyone familiar with the timeline of EPISPASM (artificially reversing circumcision) will understand the degree of "souplesse" adopted at times by Jews in order to make deals in the bath houses and spas of ancient Greece or to avoid paying the fines imposed on Jewry by the courts of ancient Greece. Whatever it takes to blend in or make a buck.
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There is no full-time resident rabbi and the size of the community probably makes it unlikely that one will be recruited. Some services are conducted by visiting rabbis. In 1999, for example, a Chabad rabbi visited the Kobe community during Passover before returning with his family to his position in Hong Kong. I wonder who they had for supper?
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Over the High Holy Day period the community was assisted in 1999 by a very popular Israeli, who led services which attracted many other Israelis from their work in Osaka and elsewhere. Sure would be helpful if WE COULD PUT A FACE ON OLL THOSE PEOPLE. How many of these Jews ARE EXHIBITING THE FACIAL TRAITS NORMALLY ASSOCIATED WITH AND CHARACTERISTIC OF THE JAPANESE PEOPLE? On paper THE JEWS AND JAPANESE BLEND TOGETHER SUPERBLY.
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The community is very warm and welcoming. After Friday night services all those who wish to do so can stay for dinner, with a kosher meal prepared by a Japanese cook. Meals are also provided after morning services and there is a "third meal" just before the evening service. Usually most of those attending services will remain throughout the day, only leaving after havdalah. I wonder what KOSHER JAPANESE FOOD LOOKS LIKE AS OPPOSED TO DEMINERALIZED AND/OR JUDAICALLY INACCEPTABLE GRUB?
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The Tokyo community has a full-time American rabbi. In 1999 Rabbi Carnie Rose, a Canadian, left for a position in Long Island; he was replaced by Rabbi Elliot Marmon, an American who had previously held a position in North Carolina. Imagine most of this activity GOES UNDETECTED IN THE PUBLIC EYE.
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The Tokyo congregation has had some communal strife over its services. Also known as JEWISH INFIGHTING.
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At present, the rabbi presides over an "egalitarian" service in the main sanctuary while an Orthodox service may be held (numbers permitting) elsewhere in the Center. Seating in the sanctuary is also somewhat innovative, with shared seating (men and women sitting together) in the middle. Sections reserved exclusively for men or for women are found on either side. Although inevitably there are some tensions as a result of the synagogue offering two distinctively different services simultaneously - they never finish at the same time - this is perhaps an improvement over the Kobe situation, where those unhappy with the Orthodox arrangements (women sit in a separate area behind a partition) simply do not attend or take part in Jewish activities. Judging by the shape of the remedial measures I can imagine this COMMUNAL STRIFE was anything but boring. Must of been hard for THOSE JEWISH MALES THAT THANK THE LORD EVERYDAY FOR NOT BEING BORN A WOMAN to integrate them to THE MAIN FLOOR. They CALL THAT INNOVATION, LOL.
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It is always hazardous to attempt to estimate the numbers of Jews in a particular community. In a PARTICULAR PLANET too.
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Japan's Jewish population (excluding American armed forces personnel and diplomatic staff) is probably about 600, mostly in Tokyo, although the number who are active in synagogue or community affairs is considerably less. In such small communities a Bar or Bat Mitzvah - or a Jewish wedding - is a rare event indeed. Again, the reader decides what to believe with regards to the quoted numbers. Personally I find them grossly deflated to shroud the true tribal concentrations.
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Japan: A Haven for Refugees Japan has always been one of the most homogeneous of countries. There is no commitment to a "plural" society and the only statues of liberty are replicas which for some reason crop up in all sorts of places around the country. Japanese attitudes towards foreigners have in fact oscillated wildly throughout Japan's history, from outright hostility to the most extravagant admiration. I think the instrument they are using to measure the "Japanese plural society" and "Japanese attitudes towards foreigners" is failed and needs more depth and explanation to be clearly defined in any relevant manner. Otherwise I can't conjure a picture of the measure of either. Hostility towards WHAT foreigners? Plural society and statues of liberty?
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Visitors today will often find Japanese people to be as genuinely kind and compassionate as any,
and there have been occasions in the past when these qualities have served to save Jewish lives. From the so-called murderous genocidal purges of JAPAN'S WW2 ALLY, JAPAN'S "ONLY ALLY." I am starting to see a picture of Japan as the ALL-TIME SAFE HARBOR FOR JEWISH CRIMINALS AND WAR FINANCIERS.
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For instance, during 1917-20, in the aftermath of the Bolshevik Revolution, the Jews of Yokohama and Kobe were able to offer significant help to several thousand Jewish refugees with the cooperation of the Japanese government. Why are all these skunks so comfortable USING JAPAN AS A CLEARING-HOUSE FOR JEWISH RITUAL AND MASS MURDERERS?
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Many of these refugees had been unable to land in Japan because they lacked the necessary funds.This problem was resolved through the help of Jacob Schiff, the leader of the New York banking firm of Kuhn, Loeb, and Company, and the then president of the American Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society (HIAS). Since Schiff had given Japan important financial assistance during the Russo-Japanese War, his request to make Yokohama and Kobe transit centers for the refugees was quickly accepted. Note HOW THE BANKERS MOVE THE JEWS AROUND THE GLOBE AND FINANCE THEIR CLANDESTINE RELOCATIONS TO SAFE HAVENS FAR FROM THE GENOCIDE OF GENTILES IN PROGRESS. I suspect the IMPORTANT FINANCIAL AID TO JAPAN WAS LATER USED TO BLACKMAIL HER OR OTHERWISE COERCE HER INTO THINGS AGAINST HER BETTER JUDGEMENT. Things LIKE MAKING HER THE STAGING GROUND FOR ABOMB HOAXES BY RITUALLY MURDERING MILLIONS OF THE INHABITANTS IN THE FINAL CHAPTERS OF A MASSIVE GENOCIDE MASQUERADING AS A WORLD WAR.
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Japan and the Holocaust More recently, and more remarkably, Japan became one of the world's only countries where Jews could find refuge from the Holocaust. And Japan was the only country allied with the German regime the Jews said was out to kill every last one of them. Why would Japan pay such reverence to the enemies of her only ally?
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This occurred despite Japan's alliance with Nazi Germany. The ONLY WAY I CAN SEE THE ALLIANCE BETWEEN JAPAN AND GERMANY MAKING ANY SENSE AT ALL IS IN THEIR MUTUAL DESIRE TO KEEP THE JEW OUT OF HARM'S WAY.
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Following the German invasion of Poland in September 1939, Jewish refugees were unable to board Italian or Japanese ships en route from Italy to Shanghai or Japan. With passage from the Mediterranean effectively blocked, the only escape route east was through the Soviet Union on the Trans-Siberian Railway bound for Vladivostok. This route remained open until the German invasion of Russia in June 1941. More than 10,000 Jews, fleeing for their lives, were able to enter neutral Lithuania from Poland between October 1939 and May 1940. Among them were nearly 5,000 who successfully made their way to Japan. These refugees were granted passage through the help of the Dutch Consul in Kaunas, Lithuania. The Consul offered the refugees misleading landing permits and transit visas to Curacao in the Dutch West Indies. They were also assisted by Chiune Sugihara, the first representative of the Japanese consulate in Lithuania, who had arrived to take up his position in August 1939. How Hitler EVER THOUGHT HE COULD DESTROY ALL THE JEWS IN THE WORLD WHILE THEY HAD SUCH SOPHISTICATED ESCAPE ROUTES IS BEYOND MY CAPACITY TO UNDERSTAND. The only possible reason for these WELL-GREASED escaped routes is BECAUSE SOME VERY WELL CONNECTED PEOPLE LET IT HAPPEN THE WAY THEY LET THE WAR HAPPEN.
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Although the Japanese have generally not had a reputation for individuality - to say nothing of conspicuous disobedience to direct orders - Sugihara ignored instructions from his own government, going on to issue several thousand passports with a Japanese 8-12 day transit visa. Hillel Levine's 1996 book, In Search of Sugihara, suggests this remarkable figure, motivated, it seems, solely by kindness and humanity, may have saved as many as 10,000 lives. I think the JAPANESE GOVERNMENT WANTED SUGIHARA TO HELP AS MANY JEWS AS POSSIBLE. It was most likely part of the SUBSTANTIAL FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE agreement between the skunks and the governing bodies in Japan at the time. The Jews BOUGHT JAPAN or held it so completely that it was theirs to use at discretion for all practical considerations. Kindness and humanity, LOL. More like MONEY AND MORE MONEY. STOLEN BOOTY FROM AROUND THE WORLD. Pilphered from working masses of the world. All finding refuge in a country they bribed into subservience.
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In any case, the documents he granted were sufficient to allow those Jews fortunate enough to have them to secure exit visas from the Russian authorities. "Fortunate enough" is to be read as HAVING A JEWISH MOTHER AND BETTER STILL IF THE GRANDMOTHER IS JEWISH. Lots of fortunate Jews that never saw the hellhole trenches and gutwrenching agonies of the battlefield and the millions of fallen comerades in the ranks of the Gentiles. Boodbaths of profit and political advantage for the bloodlusting skunks.
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Sugihara's heroism, recognized years later by the State of Israel (and Yad Vashem), cost him dearly with his own government. He sacrificed his career while enabling thousands of Jews to survive. Ok, let's see if I read this correctly, dude goes to great lengths to assist diasporic Jews find safe passage out of harm's way and this, according to this text, against the wishes of his superiors in the Japanese government. So, to thank this kind gesture, the Jews ISSUE A PUBLIC APPRECIATE THAT LANDS THEIR FORMER BENEFACTOR IN HOT SOUP WITH HIS SUPERIORS. More likely the Jews gave Sugihara A BIG CASH PAYOUT for his services and his subsequent resignation from the Japanese government was publicly spun to look like a dismissal. All in the name of hoax maintenance no doubt.
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In Japan itself, notwithstanding the government's equivocal attitude, compassion for Jewish refugees soon overcame any political reservations. Yeah right, the Jews were fleeing from Japan's ONLY WARTIME ALLY, go figure. Their compassion for the Jews never prevented or cut-short the Japanese government's alliance with NAZIS Germany.
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The Japanese government assisted Jews and Jewish organizations, such as the National Council of Jews in Asia, providing food, shelter, and transportation. Individual Japanese offered Jewish people free medical service, gifts and food, treating them with decency and generosity. THAT IS NOT THE TREATMENT I WOULD GIVE THOSE THAT CONSPIRED TO SPLASH IGNITED FUEL ALL OVER OUR CITIES AND KILL MILLIONS OF OUR INHABITANTS. Those skunks HAVE A LOT OF NERVE.
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About 500 of the Jewish refugees were students, rabbis, and families from the Yeshiva of Mir, the only European institute of Talmudic learning to remain intact throughout the Holocaust. THE CREAM OF THE CROP.
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While efforts were made to move the Yeshiva to the West, it established its study hall (Beit Midrash) in a Kobe neighborhood. Since the Japanese had never seen a yeshiva before, especially one whose daily 18 hours of study consisted of fervent singing and praying, an official was sent to examine the school.
Good thing "said official" had no clue WHAT THEY WERE CHANTING AND PRAYING ABOUT.
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The yeshiva not only received "clearance" from the government, its members were regarded as "Holy idealists." They really HAD THE HIGH OFFICIALS IN THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT "BY-THE-BALLS" WITH LOANS AND "FAVORS." Japan fell for the age-old, "MAKE THEM GREEDY" ploy.
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The refugees lived peacefully in Japan for some three to eight months, beginning in the winter of 1940-41. Before the bombing of Pearl Harbor half of them were able to move to the United States, Canada, and other areas in the Western Hemisphere. Those JEWS RUN THE MOST SOPHISTICATED NETWORKS OF UNDERGROUND RAILROADS ON EARTH.
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With no other place to turn, the remainder, including the entire Yeshiva of Mir, relocated to Japanese-occupied Shanghai. Simply UNREAL. A travel agency LIKE NONE OTHER, LOL.
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Here, too, the Japanese record proved exemplary, as the government resisted determined and repeated requests from Nazi German officials for assistance in the relocation and extermination of the Jews in the Shanghai ghetto. I don't recall ever seeing these so-called "repeated requests" from NAZIS German officials. Were they not allies? The only rational that I can find to explain this VERY ODD CONDITION OF CONTRADICTION is to take a closer look at the notion that Germany's NAZIS regime and Japan's Imperial government BOTH WANTED WHAT WAS BEST FOR THE JEW and this is why they forged an alliance. In any event, what kind of screwed up alliance IS THAT?
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Explicit anti-Jewish activity in Japan has been minimal. There are some accounts of Jews losing jobs during World War II. Music schools where Jewish performers taught were closed. On the whole, however, German advice and encouragement for the Japanese to establish anti-Jewish policies met with resistance from Japanese officials. Further evidence that it IS THE JEWS THAT ENGINEER THE ANTI-JEWISH ACTIVITIES WHERE THEY FIND IT CONVENIENT TO DO SO AND REFRAIN WHERE THEY ARE SEEKING COVER AND STEALTH FROM THE ONGOING MURDEROUS GLOBAL HOSTILITIES FUELED BY THE FLEEING SKUNKS.
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Some of this reluctance may have been influenced by hopes of access to Jewish capital. "Some", LOL. I would say ALL OF THE RELUCTANCE was influenced by Jewish promises of access to Jewish capital.
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Nevertheless, on December 31, 1940, Japanese Foreign Minister Matsuoka Yosuke told a group of Jewish businessmen, "I am the man responsible for the alliance with Hitler, but nowhere have I promised that we would carry out his anti-Semitic policies in Japan. This is not simply my personal opinion, it is the opinion of Japan, and I have no compunction about announcing it to the world." So, the Japanese Foreign Minister Matsuoka Yosuke is addressing a group of Jewish businessmen THAT HAVE ALREADY ACTED ON THEIR DESIRES TO LIVE IN THE NATION THAT IS ALLIED WITH HITLER and he is telling them that HE NEVER PROMISED THAT HE WOULD CARRY OUT HITLER'S SO-CALLED ANTI-SEMITISM POLICIES IN JAPAN. First of all I have no
idea WHY THIS DUMBASS MINISTER FEELS THAT HE HAS TO REASSURE THE JEWISH BUSINESSMEN? Did SOMEONE SIGHT A FALSE SHOWERHEAD SOMEWHERE IN JAPAN?
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There have also been many cases where Japanese, seeing themselves as victims of wartime raids and nuclear attack, have sympathized strongly with Jewish suffering. That is BECAUSE THE JAPANESE DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT THE JEW'S ROLE IN THE CARNAGE DELIVERED UPON JAPAN.
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Some Japanese see parallels between their own personal and family wartime tragedies and those experienced by the Jews of Europe. The hoax crosswalks arrive at ANOTHER MAJOR HUB. The FAKE NAZIS AND THE REAL JAPANESE HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS SYMPATHIZING WITH EACH OTHER. It would be almost laughable IF IT WERE NOT SO SAD.
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Anne Frank's Diary of a Young Girl has been required reading for Japanese students for many years, and copies of the book can be seen in many Japanese homes. Looks like the Jews have FINALLY FORCIBLY INFILTRATED THE MINDS OF JAPANESE PUBLIC SCHOOL CHILDREN and they will no doubt produce ARMIES of COMPLIANT MISINFORMED DRONES THAT WILL EVENTUALLY LEARN TO DIE VOLUNTARILY ON THE BATTLEFIELD BLOODBATHS THE JEW WILL LAY OUT FOR THEM IN THE FUTURE.
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The book first appeared in Japan in 1952 and has since sold millions of copies. There have been numerous student essay contests about the work and there is even a company named after her, Anne Co., Ltd. Welcome to JEWPAN.
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Films about the Holocaust are frequently shown in Japan, both on television and in the movies. The most recent to gain wide exposure is the award-winning Italian movie "Life is Beautiful." Other incidents and events (such as the trials of Nazi war criminals) have also brought the Holocaust to Japanese public awareness. There is a Holocaust Museum in Hiroshima and a Holocaust Resource Center in Tokyo, as well as some Japanese poetry comparing Hiroshima with Auschwitz. In other words, "THE ROYAL TREATMENT."
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Jews in Japanese Thinking The Japanese attitude towards Jews, Judaism, and Israel seems somewhat complex. Another way of saying that the average Japanese citizen has no idea what is happening to him or his country. Wait till Japan gets wise and sorts it out.
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Only rarely is it accompanied by much first-hand information or detailed knowledge. Like I said, "THE JAPANESE NEVER KNEW WHAT HIT THEM. A nation-within-a-nation has set roots and is SPREADING FAST.
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Most Japanese people lack any awareness of Jews, which in some cases seems in many ways quite remarkable. For instance, few Japanese residents of Tokyo or Kobe would have any idea that there were Jewish communities or synagogues located in their cities. Most Americans, Canadians or any other given nation on the face of this earth LACK ANY AWARENESS OF JEWS. Fortunately that is changing gradually and could potentially
avalanche into a chain reaction difficult to manage for the expolitive and genocidal Jew.
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A visitor asking for directions to the synagogue might as well be inquiring after the most direct route to the pyramids. The nature of Jewish life, too, lies outside of Japanese experience. That IS A DAMN GOOD THING FOR THE JEW but it is HARDLY PROTECTION YOU CAN RELY ON IN THE LONG RUN.
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As for what takes place inside a synagogue, this is almost a complete mystery. Yet Japanese people are singularly thoughtful and sensitive. One hint of dietary requirements is all that is necessary for Japanese to go to great lengths, over a long and sustained period, to ensure that a visitor's needs will be fully met. Poor deluded fools, licking the boot that kicks and kills them and plunders their sovereignty and wealth. Rather pathetic.
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Such anti-Jewish attitudes as may exist stem more from a heritage of anti-foreign perspectives, one which goes back a long way in Japanese history and culture. Of course it NEVER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ANTI-JEWISH ATTITUDES ARISING FROM "RESISTANCE TO ABUSE AT THE HANDS OF THE JEW." It's always about some obscure HATRED OF FOREIGNERS.
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As an isolated island nation which had minimal contact with foreign nations for much of its history, this has at times left Japanese people ill-equipped to deal with provocative points of view. A NATURAL for Jewish dominance and murderous exploitation-for-profit and material interests.
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Some anti-Jewish attitudes have at times found their way into widely read publications, yet in the long run they seem to have had little impact on individual Japanese perceptions about Jews and Judaism. Maybe it WAS THE METRIC TONS OF NAPALM SHOWERED ON THEM that distorted the individual perceptions that the Japanese have about Jews and Judaism. You can NEVER REALLY TELL WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE MIND OF THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN VIOLATED SO INTIMATELY BY SAVAGE CONTROL FREAKS AND THEIR STOCKS OF PRECIOUS METALS, IGNITED FUEL HOLOCAUSTS, AND WORTHLESS PROMISES AND PARASITISM.
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Postwar Japan has developed a pacifist political culture which makes it a largely uninviting environment for organized hostility towards other peoples. Looks like the SKUNKS HAVE INFILTRATED THE JAPANESE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH to outlaw evidence of Jewish crime and criminality. As they have already done in many major western and european nations. A veritable plague that lurks in the shadows waiting to stifle creativity and the human spirit for a profit and to extinguish the life of those they consider as UNWORTHY of sharing the earths abundant resources.
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Publications identifying the Jews as the reason for Japan's problems have had their run, but seem in the end to have had only a shallow influence on policies or events. Appearances CAN BE DECEIVING and SILENCE DOES NOT CONSTITUTE CONSENT, you could ask Roumania's Nicolae Ceausescu but they executed he and his wife for treachery and treason LOL.
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Nevertheless, ignorance does leave scope for considerable embarrassment. In October 1999, a
Japanese publication, The Weekly Post, which has 852,000 subscribers and describes itself as the best-selling news magazine in the country, focusing on politics and the economy, published a story on the proposed acquisition of a Japanese bank, and soon generated strong complaints by Jewish groups, particularly outside of Japan. The Weekly Post quickly retracted the article and carried an apology on its home page. The swarm in action. The Jews have reduced Japan to a cowering nation of "drone people." Much like they have accomplished in Europe and the North and South Americas with THEIR ILLUSIONS OF POWER.
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The publication explained its error by noting that "the problem stemmed from the stereotyped image of the Jewish people that many Japanese people have." Note the absence of details about the contentious issue itself and the criticism of Jews in particular. The Jews always manage to expose anti-Jewish views without actually describing their content. It would have been nice to know A BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT THE INTERNATIONAL JEW FOUND SO UPSETTING ABOUT THE BANK TAKEOVER. We are supposed to give the Jew the benefit of the doubt AS USUAL. I think the JAPANESE ARE WAITING FOR THE APPROPRIATE OPPORTUNITY TO VACATE THOSE SKUNKS FROM IT'S SHORES. I hope they give serious consideration to MAINTAINING STRICT VIGILENCE AGAINST RE-INFECTION WHEN AND IF THAT DAY ARRIVES.
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On occasion, Japanese images of Jews - to the extent that they have any - display a certain ambivalence. If some Japanese view Jews as powerful or affluent, others admire Jewish intellect and prosperity. I am sure a fair portion of the Japanese population SEE THE JEW FOR THE HOMICIDAL MANIAC THAT THRIVES ON CONFLICT, DEATH AND DESPAIR. In Japan and elsewhere around the world, the Jew is making the fundamental mistake of interpreting silence as meaning consent. Many Japanese Gentiles MUST HAVE FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE with the lies and racist attitudes of these arrogant infiltrators and disruptors of social order and social cohesion.
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Some have argued that Japan should learn from what is imagined to be Jewish business tactics and strategies. Japan SHOULD LEARN FROM THE TRUTH, not from those imposters that exploit and despise them and would prefer to see them dead or critically injured.
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More typically, Japanese rarely meet Jews or, more accurately, realize that they are doing so. In this sense, Jewish people are seldom if ever distinguished from other foreigners unless they take some action themselves (such as observing dietary laws, the Sabbath, or holidays). Basically, the same can be said of any nation under the talmudic influence and dominance. The Jews like to KEEP A LOW PROFILE AS THEY GO ALONG THEIR GENOCIDAL WAYS. Anywhere in the world they happen to be, except perhaps when they are in Israel. They don't even bother removing the trademarks from the American-built Caterpillar D-9 buldozers they use as instruments of murder around THAT HELLHOLE OF TALMUDIC FILTH.
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As elsewhere, anti-Zionism has had an influence over Japanese policy-makers. Following the 1967 Six-Day War, left-wing Japanese began to sympathize with the Arabs who, defeated, were now perceived as the underdog. Surprising the Japanese never confronted the Jews of Israel with their overt so-called antisemitism as expressed by their genocidal attitude towards, and, in their profound hatred of Palestinians.
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In addition, conservative circles in government, business, and the bureaucracy were concerned about the country's access to oil, a dependency to which resource-poor Japan has been acutely sensitive.
I am not sure how the Japanese sympathies for the genocide of the Palestinian people could affect the security of their oil supply.
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Japanese businesses were largely willing to comply with the Arab boycott and it was not until the 1990s peace process gained momentum that Japanese companies began to take a more active role in the Israeli economy. I suppose this should be read to say that Jewish Japanese business interests complied with the Jew-driven Arab boycott and it is probably the Japanese Jewish businesses that began to cozy up to Israel. Japan HAS NO SHORTAGE OF JEWISH BUSINESSES AND JEWISH BUSINESSMEN. Whatever THAT CORPORATE COMMUNITY DECIDES TO DO OR NOT DO CAN HARDLY BE ASCRIBED TO THE JAPANESE NATION AS A WHOLE. I don't think the Japanese control ANY aspect of their economy any longer. They have been SERIOUSLY JUDAIZED.
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In addition, there are some Japanese university staff who conduct research into the Hebrew language and Jewish affairs. In 1995, the Japanese-Jewish Friendship and Study Society was established, and the fourth volume of the group's journal, Namal, was published in 1999. The Japanese Jew and the Israeli Jew Friendship and Study Society.
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Japanese Fascination with Judaism and Israel Some might be forgiven for describing this fascination AS A BURNING OBSESSION.
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As in other countries, some Japanese have been fascinated with kibbutz ideology, going to work for a time as volunteers at kibbutzim. It is likely that - apart from idealism and a sense of adventure - the collective approach of kibbutz life resonates well with Japanese values, which traditionally give primacy to the group over the individual. Besides acknowledging A LARGE PRESENCE OF JEWS IN JAPAN FOR THE LAST CENTURY AND A HALF we now add to this that many of these Jewish Japanese citizen's share their close cousin's passions for bolshevized collectivism. Where's THE GOOD NEWS?
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In 1963, Tezuka Nobuyoshi set up the Japan Kibbutz Association (Nihon Kibutsu Kyokai) which grew to 30,000 members within a few years. This group produced a number of publications and sent Japanese to volunteer on kibbutzim in Israel. One Japanese person who volunteered in Israel with the association wrote the 1965 best-seller, Shalom Israel, describing the warmth of kibbutz life. Note how they describe the Japanese Jew as only "A JAPANESE PERSON."
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Another group which sends Japanese to volunteer on kibbutzim is the Makuya, a pro-Israel Christian group which claims to have 60,000 members. The group was founded by Teshima Ikuro, who believed that the Japanese originate from one of the ten lost tribes of Israel. Judaism by any other name IS STILL JUDAISM.
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Some of the Makuya's pro-Israel activity included a rally in front of the United Nations headquarters in New York in 1971. How many times HAVE CHRISTIANS BEEN OBSERVED DOING THAT? Why use a front group with an Christian identity to ACTIVELY RALLY in front of the United Nations headquarters in New-York? Why can't the Jews show their true faces when seeking ADVANTAGE FOR ISRAELI JEWS?
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After Japanese terrorists opened fire in the Tel Aviv airport in 1972, Teshima went to Israel to
apologize to the families and offer bereavement. I hope that WITH ALL THE APOLOGIES THE ISRAELI JEWS CHERISH SO MUCH that they will learn the lessons about HOW APOLOGIES ARE HANDLED WHEN THE TRUTH ABOUT THE JEWS IS WIDESPEAD AND ACCEPTED GLOBALLY. I sure hope they know HOW TO APOLOGISE "AND APPEAR SINCERE" THEN. A lot could be riding on the remorse or lack of it at that time.
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As well, 3,000 members led the first demonstration in Japan, held in Tokyo after the 1973 Yom Kippur War, to promote peace in Israel. Japan, reduced to the status of a grovelling, submissive instrument to be disposed of at the skunk's discretion or whim. Pathetic. Recall, THIS IS HITLER'S FORMER AND ONLY ALLY DURING WW2 THAT IS SHILLING FOR THE JEWS.
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Another pro-Israel group is the Japanese Christian Friends of Israel, with perhaps 10,000 members. Its headquarters, Beit Shalom (House of Peace), is located in Kyoto. The group is also well known for its choir, the Shinome (Dawn) Chorus, which sings Israeli and Japanese songs and has traveled to Israel, Europe, and the United States. The group's main ideology centers on support for Israel and includes prayers for the coming of the Messiah. When and IF that day comes I will make it a point to examine this creature of Jewish salvation with great interest. Until then I am left to my imagination when it comes to visualizing the VILE SLIMEY HORROR FROM HELL THAT WILL RISE FROM THE BOILING EXCREMENT OF ETERNAL DAMNATION TO FLATTER HIS/IT'S CHILDREN OF TORTURE AND GENOCIDE THAT HAVE PROUDLY HELD THE MAJORITY OF THE LORD'S CREATURES IN CONTEMPT AND BONDAGE. Whatever the Jews are praying for they may want this thing to rise before the COMING OF THE THUNDEROUS FURY AND SWIFT GREIVANCE REDRESSMENT PLANS OF THE FULLY AWAKENED GENTILE.
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Rather than encourage conversion to Christianity, the group emphasizes peace between peoples. The halmark of the impostor. Those cowards will scapegoat ANYTHING to avoid detection of their evil ways.
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The Mayor of Jerusalem, Ehud Olmert, visited Beit Shalom in 1999. Jews and Israelis are specifically welcome to stay at Beit Shalom for up to three nights free of charge. Jews are MOSTLY VERY ACCOMODATING TO OTHER JEWS. Nothing new in this. WW2 has SHOWN US JUST HOW GENEROUS JEWS CAN BE WHEN ALLOCATING SUMS TO GET JEWS OUT OF HARM'S WAY.
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Kampo Harada, one of Japan's most famous calligraphers, also believed that the Japanese were descended from the lost tribes. Kampo went all over the world to do calligraphy, even traveling to Israel to paint for Yitzhak Rabin. Kampo was an earnest collector of Judaica. Hidden in the back of his Kyoto museum is a small room filled with Jewish books, three Torah scrolls, and various Jewish objects for use with prayer. Kampo's impressive collection includes hundreds of books about Israel, Jewish thought, prayer books, and books in Hebrew. There are rare works such as the Babylonian Talmud, the complete Zohar, and a Torah scroll which was saved at the end of World War II by an American soldier in Germany. Kampo collected Jewish books for forty years, and has another 4,600 books being held at a museum in Shiga-ken. Textbook definition of a JAPANESE JEW.
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The Future of Jewish Life in Japan Same as Jewish life in the rest of the world, barely hanging on by virtue of an outdated and illogical collection of crumbling illusions. When the truth comes out fully the WHOLE HOUSE OF CARDS FALLS APART AND THE TRUE FACE OF THE JEW IS EXPOSED FOR ALL TO SEE.
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When the Tokyo synagogue, Beth David, with its beautiful sanctuary, was dedicated in November 1968, the motives for maintaining Jewish life in Japan were articulated in a dedication speech at that time: "Here, in a strange land on the edge of the diaspora, far from the world centers of Judaism, with no external, visible reminders of our heritage, a whole generation, our children, are in constant danger of being lost to our people. This is why we have a Jewish Community, why we determinedly, stubbornly, even fiercely insist on a center of Jewish life in Tokyo, where we can raise our children as Jews." Lying skunks, the only interests they have in Japan are purely of the financial and genocidal variety. Their children FOLLOW THEM EVERYWHERE THEY GO. Just a cheap scapegoating of their own offspring to cover the real motives for their collective presence anywhere they go.
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Japan's Jewish population seems destined never to be very large, however, and there remains, in Japan as elsewhere, the reality of intermarriage. The attractions of Japanese to Western visitors having long been celebrated in literature and the arts. Jews living in Japan have not been exempt from these sentiments. The Jews delight in DILUTING THE BLOODLINE OF THE GENTILE FEMALES. They have always strived to BASTARDIZE THE NATIONS THEY INFILTRATE. It's part of the genocide agenda of racial superiority for the Jews.
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In most cases the children of Japanese-Jewish marriages are not raised as Jews. However, a visit to the Kobe and Tokyo synagogues also finds a handful of Japanese Jews present at services. Some of them have Jewish spouses; others have converted to Judaism for various reasons. Converts to Judaism in Japan are not numerous, but they can and do have an impact on a community's life. The Jews COULD HAVE ANY NUMBER OF REASONS FOR NOT WANTING TOO MUCH PUBLIC EXPOSURE IN THE PRESENCE OF JAPANESE JEWS. Maybe the international Jew would like to view Japan as THE LITTLE ISLAND WHERE THEY CAN HIDE AFTER HOISTING BLOODY BATTLES ON UNSUSPECTING PEOPLE WHILE THEY DRAW PROFIT AND REMAIN OUT OF HARM'S WAY.
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In Kobe, for instance, a Japanese woman became an important member of the small community after her interest in Judaism (sparked by friendships with Kobe Jews) led to a program of study in the United States and participation in a formal conversion program. Her interest in Judaism reflected dissatisfaction with the secular attitudes of the younger generation of Japanese. Her subsequent marriage to an Israeli (formerly resident in Kobe), in Israel, was attended by other members of the Kobe congregation. A Jewish Japanese woman?
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Of course Japan has a way of inspiring visitors with its own distinctive atmosphere. Some of its attractiveness is spiritual; Of course the spiritually challenged Jew is incapable of seeing anything but profit in this spiritual attractiveness.
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even the seasons can seem intoxicating in Japan, with each providing its own special beauty, its own particular charm. A thriving and VERY LUCRATIVE tourism industry in Japan.
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The Japanese and the Jews - the subject of more than one book Not a single one that I have ever read or knew of before reading it here in this article.
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- do share much in common, as complex peoples who are among the world's most enduring and
most modern, at once traditional and innovative, respectful of the past yet zealous for the future. I guess that's why they showered their BOSSOM BUDDIES by the millions with ignited napalm fuel. Hypocritical skunks. Traditional, innovative, respectful..LOL. Traits more characteristic of the Japanese, not Jews.
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If any bridge is needed between them, it is surely in the example of a Japanese diplomat - long neglected both by Japanese and by Jews - a man who, nearly 60 years ago, held life in his fingertips, in the form of pieces of paper, and gave them to all that he could reach - Sugihara, a righteous Japanese who helps make it possible for Jews to visit and live in Japan in warmth and with pride. Aiding and abetting fleeing engineers of genocide and pillage is HARDLY SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF. Only Jews would honor such treason on Sugihara's part, the Japanese SHOULD HAVE HUNG HIM THE MOMENT THEY FOUND OUT. The Japanese Shindler was probably just as BIG A SWINDLER.
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cactus
(rebel) 11/07/04 02:16 AM
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cactus
(rebel) 11/13/04 07:53 PM
Courtesy bump for LF's Magician- You may now insert your evidence that the A Bomb exists. most free thinkers consider hell itself a fabrication,and purgatory a fabrication upon a fabrication, indulgences are artificial three times over.
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Not_Yet
(skeptic) 11/14/04 10:30 AM
So do you think that the lower picture has equal area to the upper picture if the hole is included in the area? Please explain this "paradox" lol
"They don't even notice us. There all asleep in their bunks. No, you know what? They're at the casino celebrating our sinking. Not Yet kameraden, Not Yet!"
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cactus
(rebel) 11/14/04 04:30 PM

Quote:
[ To: Not_Yet | Post 293102136, reply to 293101216 ] (Score: 1)
So do you think that the lower picture has equal area to the upper picture if the hole is included in the area?
I counted the reference squares in the grid and found the OUTER AREA of the triangle to be the same, what did I miss?
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Please explain this "paradox" lol I can't, I suppose that is why they call it a mathematical paradox. There are many such paradoxes in mathematics. Do you know why the extra square appears? You seem to find this amusing so I guess you must know the solution to this paradox.
most free thinkers consider hell itself a fabrication,and purgatory a fabrication upon a fabrication, indulgences are artificial three times over.
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Not_Yet
(skeptic) 11/14/04 07:54 PM
The hypotenuse of each triangle is a different angle. The smaller triangle is 5 x 2 squares, the larger is 8 x 3. It is close so it causes the illusion that both objects have the same outside dimensions, however they do not. Look at the semicovered white blocks behind both objects. You should notice that on the lower object it covers more of the white blocks. That "paradox" is like saying that 2 + 2 + 2 can equal 7.
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cactus
(rebel) 11/14/04 08:13 PM
The outer perimeter of the triangle is EXACTLY THE SAME IN BOTH INSTANCES. Both triangles are FIVE squares high and both triangles are THIRTEEN squares across and the line that binds them is linear and straight. This says that the area within each triangle is proportionally the exact same. No matter how you rearrange the geometric forms within these triangles YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO RETAIN THE ORIGINAL OUTER PERIMETER IF YOU MIX THE INSIDE PIECES AROUND. At best you should have SOMETHING PROTRUDING OUTSIDE OF THE OUTER PERIMETER. Do you see what I mean. You should not have MISSING PARTS unless SOMETHING IS PROTRUDING FROM THE OUTER PERIMETER. No matter how you visualize the intersections of the angled portion of these model triangles with the grid DOES NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE END RESULT nor does it SOLVE THE PARADOX. Please explain to me what I have failed to understand, that empty space is kind of spooky, how can an optical illusion conserve it's outer perimiter SO INTACT while undergoing such radical alterations within it's inner bounderies? LEAVING A SPACE OF ALL THINGS. most free thinkers consider hell itself a fabrication,and purgatory a fabrication upon a fabrication, indulgences are artificial three times over.
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Not_Yet
(skeptic) 11/14/04 08:19 PM
You failed geometry, correct? :)
Seriously, the object is not a triangle because the the hypotenuse angle of each triangle is different. Look at it again
Post Extras:
Judson
If all of the 3 angles = 60o then it is a true triangle right?

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Not_Yet
(skeptic) 11/14/04 08:43 PM
[ To: Judson | Post 293102523, reply to 293102502 ] (Score: 1)
The smaller triangle is 5squares x 2 squares, the larger is 8squares x 3squares. If the object (4 parts combined) were a real triangle the larger triangle must be 7.5squares long by 3 which it is not. The object is not triangular at all but a trapezoid (4sides). At a glance it just looks like a triangle.
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cactus
(rebel) 11/14/04 09:01 PM

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You failed geometry, correct? :) No, geometry FAILED ME, LOL. It never lived up to my expectations. Whatever you want to call BOTH THOSE GEOMETRIC FORMS you may need something more convincing to demonstrate your point. The bottom of both geometric shapes is EXACTLY THE SAME LENGTH AND HEIGHT and the line that joins both ends of the 90 degree angle is perfectly straight. Try showing us graphically the point you are trying to make. The outer bounderies are EXACTLY THE SAME IN BOTH INSTANCES AND THE GRID IS EXACT ALSO. Try leaving my academic credentials out of the debate, I said I was not a mathematician and this model you find so obvious has been viewed several times without solution. Are you going to say that all the people that are stumped by this pair of geometric shapes flunked geometry or are you going to rationalize that all found it so obvious they just laughed it away. Whatever assessment of my academic credentials you wish to retain is a matter that is beyond the scope of this present debate and only serves to inject irrelevant coloration to the subject matter. Now, again, I don't know what you mean and would appreciate a geometric model if you have one and can display it. Recall, all shapes remained intact throughout conversion and you have not demonstrated (at least in a way I can understand) where the missing square comes from. most free thinkers consider hell itself a fabrication,and purgatory a fabrication upon a fabrication, indulgences are artificial three times over.
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Not_Yet
(skeptic) 11/14/04 09:11 PM
I'm not a prof so my explanation may be lacking. :) the line that joins both ends of the 90 degree angle of the "4 component object" is NOT perfectly straight. It is comprised of 2 lines at different angles. The solution however can be found out very easily if you want to cheat. Just print out the picture and cut out the 2 objects. You will see that the lower object extends more along angled portion accounting for the area of the "void" at its base.
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cactus
(rebel) 11/14/04 09:17 PM
You are correct Not_Yet. These geometric comparisons are ONLY OPTICAL ILLUSION and NOT mathematical paradox. There are many more such paradoxes THAT MAY WITHSTAND CLOSER SCRUTINY. I will try to find a better example to demonstrate the unpredictable variables that could possibly have conspired to make the A Bomb fizzle out. Do you have any ideas of the A Bomb itself, do you think that is truth or illusion? Thanks for the geometry lesson Not_Yet.
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cactus
(rebel) 11/21/04 05:55 AM
Ok, before I get back to the matter of the mathematical paradoxisms that may have obstructed the realization of a successful atomic detonation, I would like to share a few thoughts about seismology in general and seismologists in particular. As I have implied earlier in this thread I consider seismology to be the litmus test of truth in the atom bomb hoax. For those unfamiliar with the historical seismicity (documented tremors) of Japan I will point out that Japan is located in the famous Ring-of-Fire and sitting near the intersections of the Eurasian, Pacific, and Philippine Plates.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki are located in an earthquake zone known as the Southwest Honshu Arc.
Within this seismic perimeter and relatively close to Hiroshima and Nagasaki are five volcanos. (1)Abu, (3)Oki-dogo, and (5)Kannabe are known as Holocene Shield volcanos while (2)Sanbe is a Caldera that last erupted in 1650 BC. (4)Daisen is a Holocene Strato-volocano. Without getting into the specific tremor signatures that one might expect in each of these seismic classifications, one can easily see that tremor-awareness is nothing new to the people of Japan. Anyone familiar with the historical seismicity of the Southwest Honshu Arc will never dispute that tremors and quakes are taken very seriously by the Japanese people and someone living there expects the forecasting abilities of these networks of seismological outposts to be as accurate as humanly possible. This said, I would like to travel back to the morning when the so-called atom bomb, that went by the military code name Little Boy, was allegedly dropped on the city of Hiroshima in the Southwest Honshu Seismic zone. The news of this top-secret weapon was not unveiled to the rest of the world until the Jew-run media conglomerates published the event the next day. How can this be possible? How can the world-wide networks of seismological outposts in every country of the world NOT have recorded what some have described as the equivalent of a 6.2 earthquake? Why is it that the media were not reporting thousands of calls from every outpost to find out WHAT THAT TREMOR WAS. The whole world was unaware that this was a bomb yet they ignored the earth tremor for all practical purposes. How can this be? How come all the charts of important world seismic activity ALWAYS NEGLECT TO INCLUDE THAT SEISMOGRAPH NEEDLE-BENDING EXPLOSION THE RUSSIANS CALLED TSAR BOMBA? How did the global seismological outposts miss THAT? I have not met a single seismologist or geophysicist in my entire life but I have to admit THEY APPEAR TO BE VERY GOOD AT HOLDING THEIR COLLECTIVE SILENCE. In the following illustrations I will leave it to the reader to imagine THE TYPE OF WAVE THAT WOULD RACE THROUGH THE GROUND AFTER AN ATOMIC BLAST CONSISTENT WITH DESIGN EXPECTATIONS. These illustrations are graphical models representing the types of waves seismologists normally deal with. I am sure that if such a thing as an atom bomb existed we would
have seen these distinctive seismological signatures to date. The seismological history of the socalled A-Bomb is HIGHLY CONTRADICTORY when not OUTRIGHT REDICULOUS. The A Bomb is a hoax, that is the only rational explanation. The "P" wave :
The "S" wave :
The "LOVE" wave :
The "RAYLEIGH" wave :
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cactus
(rebel) 11/30/04 06:43 PM
Ok, more depth and insight. This time from a Maclean's August 7, 1995 article about Hiroshima that I will quote-splice to expose the contradictory nature of the A Bomb hoax and hopefully stimulate debate.
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Paying for the bomb by Carl Mollins Canadian Prime Minister Mackenzie King was in the loop early, aware of " the secret process which has such appauling possibilities of enormous destruction," as he noted in his personal diary in April of 1944.
If he did not know it was a hoax he was NOT IN THE LOOP AT ALL.
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His minister of munitions and supply, C.D. Howe, sat on a six-member Anglo-American-Canadian Combined Policy Committee co-ordinating " the matter of tube alloys," official code words for King's "secret process."
Anglo-American-Canadian Combined Policy Committee, LOL. International jewry by any other name is still international jewry. They may have been co-ordinating the massive transfers of new fortunes that would be made by fleecing the world of the sweat of their foreheads using a very bold new type of illusion, the A Bomb boogie-man.
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The Americans in charge of the project, while keeping some other allies and many of their own leaders in the dark, had to inform Canada's wartime prime minister and include Howe on the committee.
The Americans keep their allies in the dark while offering their enemies the chance of intercepting Einstein's letter to FDR by giving it to a jewish New York banker to give to the president. This skunk banker let the letter about this new revolutionary weapon (read shameless hoax) float around for a full week incognito before this famous (read infamous) letter was handed to FDR. "Allies in the dark," LOL. More like the public paying for these collections of illusions in the dark.
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They needed Canadian-refined uranium to develop the weapon that, 50 years ago, was to transform human history in a mid-summer cataclysm.
And transform the savings and hard work of Gentiles everwhere into vapor. The hard working masses were being separated from the fruits of their labour using illusions to obtain these sums in the guise of public security and national defence for a non-existant threat. I have yet to obtain the kind of evidence that will satisfy my curiosity that uranium may just be a worthless pile of rock. Some are saying the nuclear reactors are hoaxes, although I find it hard to believe I am keeping an open mind at all times. Much like the skunks are presently doing trying to fleece the public for trillions of dollars for a missile defense shield for imaginary boogey-men.
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On August 6, 1945, one of the only two atomic bombs then in existance dropped from a U.S. bomber over the southwestern Japanese port of Hiroshima as the city went to work that monday morning.
Five volcanos surround the area around Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Not one of the seismological outposts in the area noted the slightest variation in the ground. It is estimated by some that the blast of this so-called atom bomb dropped on Hiroshima that morning was the equivalent of 6.2 on the Richter Scale. If it is true that the seismological precision of the instruments was such that a 6.8 quake in California registered half-way across the world in Norway you can image the needle bending that must have been felt all around Hiroshima itself. The official photo of the mushroom cloud over hiroshima taken by the airborne Tibbets and company aboard MAMMA GAY shows the sun striking the mushroom directly overhead, how could everybody be on their way to work in the morning. My theory is the reason the seismologists in Japan or elsewhere took slight or little note was because the firebombing of Hiroshima with conventional weapons such as ignited gasoline was not much unlike the clusterf*cks of napalm air raids already well underway against Japan's Gentiles. Let's ask the historical geophysists that run these sensitive tremor detection networks to show us a seismogram of the incredible firebombing of Tokyo on August 15 involving over 800 skunk crates with wings with the tremor readings of Hiroshima.
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The bomb's timer triggered a furious explosion of it's uranium payload 600 metres above the city.
The damage inflicted on Hiroshima is GROSSLY INCONSISTENT with the forcasted mathematical models. Hiroshima was made mostly of match-stick firewood. May have been chosen for this exact reason, a new weapon hoax had to have lots of spectacular fireworks. Hiroshima should have been a glassified crater and buried in concrete for decades if not longer. For all we know Hiroshima was not even evacuted and until I see a list of the names of the people killed I will be cautious about the number of killed as well. The city may have been evacuted except for the resident skunks coordinating the hoax at the Japan end.
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The enormous blast, 6000 times more powerful than any normal bomb, spread deadly radiation.
So much radiation in fact that they failed to evacuate and quarantine and bury the area in concrete, LOL. 6000 times more powerful than conventional explosives and the seismologists can't note the difference from all the other ignited gasoline showers the jews were giving the Japanese Gentiles for that period of history.
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Three days later, another A Bomb, almost twice as potent as the first, exploded over Nagasaki, 300kms southwest of Hiroshima.
Same story again. No evacuation, no quaranteen or burial of radiocative material under metric tonnes of concrete. Seismologists fail to note anything extra-ordinary about this latest in an ongoing campaign of firebombing and ignited fuel showers brought to you by the children of evil, the human incarnation of damnation.
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The attacks destroyed the two cities and, including those who died later of wounds and radiation
sickness, at leat 200,000 lives.
First and foremost we have never met an/or seen these so-called victims nor have we been invited to examine lists. For all we know this military town (40,000 soldiers) was evacuated and the socalled radiation sickness is a crock of fabrication. Another interesting fact is that the American Environmental Agency has been on the backs of the military installations that produce tons of carcinogens and cancer inducing pathogens which are leeched into the public water supplies from their exclusive processing of trinitrotoluene (TNT). This TNT production has caused many lawsuits from U.S. citizens that contracted various forms of cancer from exposure to the toxic seepage from those military/explosive-factory installations. If any were really wounded in Hiroshima they would be suffering burns consistent with ignited gasoline and later would contract potential cancers related to exposure to TNT/GASOLINE, not radiation.
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On Aug. 15, Japan closed the second world war in surrender
If the seismograms of Tokyo were available for that day, on August 15th, when 800 full-sized carpet bombers poured record breaking showers of ignited gasoline on that city and it's Gentile populations, and you could compare this day with any other usual killing spree from the clouds for that period and you might realize that August 15th 1945 was the day the jew would light up Japan to celebrate the end of this particular exercise in global mass murder. Japan did not end that massacre, the jews did. They always starty and end it, at least they used to.
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Fifty years later, despite advances in taming atomic power for peaceful uses, the world remains in thrall to the menace that dates from the furious birth of the nuclear age in the skies of Japan.
Said the multi-million dollar corporation waiting in the sidelines to express it's love for the culture of profit seekers by saddling the working masses with a hoax upon a hoax, the missile defense shield. What a croc of bull like that scalar electromagnetics boogey-man slated for future exploitation.
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Canada, while fostering it's role as a peacemaker, was an active if quiet player from the nuclear age's beginnings.
Time has shown that Canada would play a BIG role in the laundering of the A Bomb hoax. Canada has been taking in so-called "retired" nuclear warheads and converting the radioctive cores to MOX FUEL. The hoax becomes a buried mass of glassified substance out-of-sight, out-of-mind. I think this is why the jews promoted the image of Canada as the peacemaker and international atomic ombudsman. The jews wanted to project the image that it was the international atomic moral authority of Canada that was entrusted with disposing of nuclear bombs so the jews could move on to fresh new, more modern hoaxes, like scalar electromagnetics for instance. This may also be the reason Canada never became a so-called nuclear superpower because they had to be NUCLEAR VIRGINS.
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On the day that Mackenzie King's "appalling possibilities" became a terrible reality in Hiroshima, the diarist expresses none of the remorse that plagued many others involved in the weapon's development.
It is interesting to note the apparent lack of resignations or official complaints about the nature of the works assigned to those propping the A Bomb hoax. No one will doubt they knew they were not REINVENTING THE MOUSETRAP. The pilot of the aircraft that dropped the Little Boy so-called atomic bomb on Hiroshima almost sounded rejoiceful in his personal memoires about that day. Nobody was worried about the fact that aerial bombing raids had been INTENSIFIED following the two so-called atomic weapons dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The same people that dropped their hoax on Japan knew that further bombing would be required. The hoaxsters realized that, to the japanese Gentiles, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the same as all other bombing raids of ignited gasoline. That is why the saturation bombing continued IN SPITE OF THE SO-CALLED ATOM BOMBS. The Japanese regular folk KNEW WHAT THEY SAW WAS NOT A NUCLEAR BOMB.
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On the contrary, he turns in his diary that Aug.6 to the darker narrows of his mind. "We now see what might have come to the British race had German scientists won the race" to perfect a nuclear weapon, he notes.
The "British race?" Since when are the British a race? Do they mean race like in "jews?" Does this have anything to do with "British" meaning "Covenant Man" in Hebrew? Is this a weird way of saying that Britian is another Israel to the jews? Sure would clear up a few spots in history if it were to turn out to be true. And here's that familiar whine of Hitler getting the bomb. Dumbass Einstein (also known as Mr. Trustmeimajew) gave the famous letter detailing a super new weapon to a New-York banker that tossed it around town for a whole week before it was handed to Franklin D Roosevelt and this Canadian skunk King is worried about winning races like it was some kind of game, LOL.
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And although the A Bombs were not ready until after NAZIS Germany's defeat, King adds:"It is fortunate that the use of the bomb should have been upon the Japanese rather than upon the white races of Europe."
Duh, wake up King, those people firebombed all over Europe by the allies were white races. Dumbass King thought Dresden was peopled by negros. Whatever the case this comment from King is enough to confirm my suspicions about that impostor passing himself off as an elected official. Statements like that on King's part make me certain he was jewish. Important to note here that the BOMBS WERE NEVER "READY" AT ANY TIME, they are not real.
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(In fact, U.S. military planners had designated Japan as the A-Bomb target two years before Germany's surrender on May 7, 1945.)
Considering the A-bomb is a hoax we can assume both Germany and Japan were basically bombed equally. If I had to choose I would say Japan ON THE SOLE CRITERIA OF THAT TERRIBLE DAY OF BOMBING OF TOKYO AUGUST 15, 1945. Nothing in Germany compares to those seismographicneedle-bending waves of shock and crumbling edifices. The fact that the U.S. had determined Japan to be the target fully two years before Germany's surrender just adds more fuel for the skeptics.
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As for the event's lasting importance, and the danger it posed to the postwar world, the King diary mundanely rates the bombing as one of the "two great events of the day." The other: his personal byelection victory in the Ontario riding of Glengarry, after losing in a general election two months earlier in Prince Albert, Sask.
Spiritually hobbled trash.

Quote:
Much less ready to equate the bomb to mere competitive success were scientists closely connected to the bomb's production- notably refugees from NAZI-occupied Europe who played key roles in the atom-splitting project in both Canada and the United States.
Refugees, LOL. Jews by any other name are still jews. Not even "refugees", "naturally daisporic" might be a more suiting label, LOL.
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They pressed for an early public warning to Japan and the rest of the world, possibly supported by a public demonstration of the weapon in a test explosion.
They pressed so hard NOBODY TOOK NOTICE. The skunk-run media giants were in on the hoax and would have never allowed a public demonstration with REAL PEOPLE AND ALL. Everybody would have seen the demonstration as bogus. They had to firebomb an area massively and orchestrate every imaginable angle to avoid detection. Definately NO PUBLIC DEMONSTRATIONS. To this very
day and and The
in 2004 public demonstrations are not discussed or proposed. That is because they are not real never were folks. Try and obtain the historical seismograms for that period and those places you will soon understand that something very sinister is afoot in that area from all indications. silence of the seismologists is very damning.
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Nuclear physicists, Neils Bohr, a Nobel laureate from Denmark and Hungarian Leo Szilard, with the support of German-born Albert Einstein, led a campaign for openness and an international system of control.
Funny how the jews appear shy to take credit for Einstein describing him simply as German born. Jews don't like their creed to be broadcast to the four winds when it comes to the A Bomb hoax preferring to impress the jewish image upon more in line with the illusions of a peaceful people. Most of these skunks are real pieces of work, like jewish PR work. Designed to streamline the hoax transgenerational illusion maintenance program.
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The official history of the U.S Atomic Energy Commission records that President Franklin Roosevelt was impressed enough by the unease among the scientists to ask his American advisors, on Set. 22, 1944: " Should the bomb be used against the Japanese, or should it be tested in the United States and held as a threat?"
I think the unease among the scientists had to do with their fears of playing along in a massive operation their math and common sense told them was impossible. Presidents have this weird habit of misinterpreting the messages their constituents are communicating to them, LOL. "Should the bomb be used against the Japanese?" The simple answer is, " do you need to ask" and the hard answer is that the bomb never worked at all, ever. "Tested in the United States and held as a threat?" A 9/11-style threat?
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Roosevelts advisors caught up in the momentum of what the official history calls "the race for the bomb, "postponed an answer.
"Momentum", LOL. More likely postponed while Hollywood worked out the final details of the hoax.
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Whatever hesitation Roosevelt may have harbored died with him on April 12, 1945.
Whatever hesitation Roosevelt may have harbored makes not a difference anywhere, he had no discretionary powers in this matter and cannot be said to have been more than a drone-like jew instinctively slapping-one-in for the Chosen-ones.
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His successor, Harry Truman, expressed no such doubts, from the time he was fully briefed on the "secret process" until his death in 1972.
This is not uncharacteristic of a jew. I wonder if "the secret process" was a code name for those "in-the-know" about the hoax?
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Apart from his open reluctance to proceed with an American invasion of Japan, at the risk of heavy casualties, Truman was intent on displaying U.S. power to the Soviet Union, which had emerged as America's chief competitor for global influence.
Truman was intent on making money for the jews by milking the unsuspecting American Gentile and killing millions of Gentiles overseas in the process. Truman may have been another of those filthy closet talmudists and eugenicist.
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While at a summit with Churchill and Soviet leader Joseph Stalin at Potsdam, near Berlin, where
Soviet intervention in the war against Japan was discussed.
The "Covenant Man", "Dzhugasvili", and FDR chatting about trivial stuff like global ritual mass murder masquerading as failed diplomacy and war." AN AXIS OF EVIL.
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Truman received word from Washington of the successful ground test of a plutonium bomb in the New Mexico desert on July 16, 1945.
Note that the president is not sufficiently interested in the testing TO HANG AROUND BACK HOME AND WITNESS THE TESTS FIRST HAND. Was Truman having a neurological breakdown when he buggered out and split town for one of his country's most significant advances? A real nutball and a United States president to boot, and the U.S. populations swallows the whole thing hook, line and sinker. Was truman afraid the bomb would backfire and wipe out the atmospere of America, LOL. Yellow bellied skunks.
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At the close of the Potsdam summit, Truman casually mentioned to Stalin the U.S. development of "a new bomb of unusual destructive force."
And naturally we are to believe Stalin bought this story in blind faith and neglected to check with his seismologists to confirm the wild allegations of the western skunk. The Russians had the required seismic equipment to "pick-up" that blast in the New Mexico desert the moment it popped. Pack of lying jews and their false facades of diplomacy and statehood. If I had been Stalin I would have asked what this stupidity of not being home for the testing was all about and kicked the filthy skunk out of the country along with my seismographic evidence of his tribal bullshit. Stalin could not do that because he was part of that "four-corners-of-the-world gang of blood lusting vampires "on-the-hoax" so-to-speak.
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Truman, like King a diarist, confided to his journal a belief that "Japs will fold up before Russia comes in" and " I am sure they will when it appears over their homeland." Within days, Truman issues orders to A Bomb Japan.
The sad truth is that those A-bombings, as they like to call them, never amounted to much because the conventional bombing raids continued uninterrupted and culminated in one big orgy of gasoline showers on August 15, 1945, date, at which, the jews decided the massacre was over for now. Truman incarnates all the evil of that despised group suffering spiritual impairment and homicidal obsessions that revolve around fire and using fire to kill Gentiles.
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Churchill was more fully briefed than Stalin on the New Mexico test of the rotund plutonium device that it's builders christened, "Fat Man"-- after the British prime minister.
What does Stalin need of foreign countries doing his spying for him? Russian had all the resources at it's disposal to smoke out the hoax and broadcast it to the world exposing the jew and saving many A LOT OF MONEY. But, that was not Dzhugashvili's style, he was more the talmudic type and most likely in-the-know about the hoax.
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(The slighter "Little Boy" uranium bomb dropped on Hiroshima, never tested in prototype, succeeded and early version named "Thin Man" after Roosevelt.
Turns out "Pit Bull" was a far better suited name to describe that bull. The prototypes WERE TESTED for droppability. While this does not constitute "a test" in the context of what the author was implying just that it is good to know that "no testing at all" is not accurate.
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For Churchill, the first atomic explosion was an apocalyptic event.
No kidding, if you like money and you were on this hoax-payoff's list it would be armaggeddon, LOL.
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Declared the wartime leader: " This is the second coming, in wrath."
The second coming of THE SNAKEOIL SALESMEN.

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Psysicist J. Robert Oppenheimer, director of the New Mexico laboratory near Los Alamos where the bombs were built, was similarily moved to cite scripture when he observed the test explosion.
You would think the fool would start citing scripture when the skunks made it clear they wanted his team to build a functional device for them. He could have withdrawn but did not. Another hypocrite skunk if you ask me. Oppenheimer posed with General Groves for a photo shoot at the New Mexico "ground zero" test site and he saw before him evidence that something was amiss and something that Oppenheimer knew perfectly well was not consistent with design expectations. There was this so-called man of science standing for a picture where a glassified mega-crater of HOT radiocative substance should have been. Oppenheimer should have been wearing FULL PROTECTION but was not. Unbelivable inconsistencies if you look at the atom bomb as anything but a hoax at which time it becomes crystal clear.
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Quoting Hinduism's Bhagavad-Gita, the awed scientist exclaimed; "I am become death, the shatterer of worlds."
Too bad, he could just as well have been life, the shatterer of illusions if he was not so jewish. Note also that he does not quote the Christian bible. Lots of neat post-apocalype sayings in that book. Hindus are very friendly to jews and cooperate very closely with them in our modern times. It is said that the jews are helping the Hindus flex political muscle (aka swarming, bribing, murdering) to get the advancement they need in America.
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Oppenheimer later objected to the development of the yet more powerful hydrogen bomb-- and it's testing in 1952 on Eniwetok atoll in the South Pacific.
Why would a reasonable person listen to HIS objections? Show me some objections from REAL people.
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As a result, the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission cited the father of the A Bomb a security risk in 1953
Hoax maintenance and reinforcement designed for the uninquiring minds of the sleeping public paying for all this talmudic pile of lies and murder at that time and since. The only people at risk were the jews if the hoax was unexpectedly OUTED.
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The prevalent doubts and dangers found a voice in the first editions of Maclean's to appear after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
And naturally it did not occur to these "INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISTS" to "LOOK AT THE MUSHROOM CLOUD AND INQUIRE AS TO WHY THE SUN IS AT HIGH NOON WHEN IT IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE OCCURED AT 8:15 IN THE MORNING". It's the first and most obvious contradiction that still finds no explanation.
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" The coming of atomic power," declared one article, "may prove to be the most important single event in the whole history of mankind."
More likely the most important single event in the whole history of that transgenerational plague we call judaiism. They must have been in BLISS. The TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS THEY WERE GOING TO FLEECE FROM THE HARD WORKING MASSES with this lousy set of illusions. They were lucky they played the public school card before they went into full spin with exotic new impossible weapons (read boogey man).
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Another under the headline "We Can't Risk War Now" declared: " The fate of humanity hangs in the balance."
This is how the jew tells his slaves that peace is gonna cost A LOT. It's a sort of global blackmail whereby the jews organize or mobilize military effectives and declare war to maintain their dominant positions. The jews had BIG PLANS to get this historical fleecing rolling and make it PAY BIG. The jews had big drill programs in their world-wide web of public schools and they used them without shame to induce the fear of atom bombs in children and project their kind as MIGHTIER THAN GOD, and DESTROYERS OF WORLDS. Yellow-bellied jews and their WISHFUL THINKING, all dreamers, LOL.
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But for the practical Mackenzie King, it was business as usual.
Another proud member of the culture of profit seekers and material interests that see no advancement in questioning the death of millions or the methods employed. A dumb facade that probably lacked the competance required of his office and was propped and pampered by the international jews.
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After the war, even as his envoys joined in efforts at the new United Nations Organization to outlaw the bomb, or at least place nuclear power under U.N. control.
Controlled opposition. Never took root as time has shown. Most controlled opposition fails. It's designed to do this and project the illusion that the public voted for the best side of the contentious issue in question.
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King's government continued to assist the post-war buildup of the U.S. nuclear arsenal.
In Canada's case, at least conventional wisedom says that, canadians don't have atomic bombs because they have some unspecified high moral imperative to remain nuclear virgins while on the underside canadians are supplying the American so-called nuclear arsenals. Seems to me that canadians are at a loss to explain why they never developed nuclear deterence of their own. If they were so concerned about proliferation why not refrain from helping the Americans proliferate. What country in it's right mind would depend on another country for their defense when a few quick moves (canada had the supplies of uranium) could just as easily made them a major player too. It does not make sense either way. Smells a lot like skunk.
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Added to supplies of uranium from Crown owned mines and a government refinery in Port Hope, Ont., was bomb-grade plutonium from the nuclear reactor that began producing in Chalk River, Ont., a month after Hiroshima.
Wonder where the profit of all those sales went to. Maybe that is TOP SECRET TOO. King was a sick dumbass jew.
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Britain received the same service in the postwar development of it's bomb.
The canadian NUCLEAR VIRGINS FU*KING GLOBAL ATOMIC PERVERTS LIKE NICKLE WHORES, LOL. Hypocrite skunks.
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King's successors maintained Canada's profitable contribution to the nuclear arms race into the 1960s, even as they piously abstained from building an all-Canadian atomic arsenal and preached disarmament.
Most Canadians NEVER SAW A PENNY OF THOSE PROFITS IN ANY PRACTICAL SENSE. The money was no-doubt funelled off to the international fleecers. For some reason the international jew did not want A Bomb hoaxes in Canada. Could it be that Canada was to be the future A Bomb hoax clearing house?
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As "ban the bomb" demonstrations flourished around the world, the Soviet Union, Britain, France and China joined the nuclear club, others less openly.
And the money poured into the international jew's laps like a tidal wave. Has to be a record breaking hoax. We should really ask the Guiness Book of World Records to evaluate this claim, LOL. By "less openly" I assume they are referring to the Israeli A Bomb hoax and Vannunu.
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India did so with firepower from a Canadian-provided research reactor in 1974.
The NUCLEAR VIRGIN never rests. Monetary interests come before global security. Anyways, Kanadians ARE PRESENTLY UP TO THEIR NECKS IN JEWS. A filthy talmudian runs the justice department and this rotten justice department oversees the enforcement of family orders like child support. My stomach turns when I think of the way the jews have slithered into our family affairs and into the minds of our children. I will be glad to see this evil removed so we can get back to manageable, healthy controversies.
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The club poisoned the atmosphere with weapons tests and the earth with noxious nuclear wastes.
More like they poisoned the atmosphere with trinitrotoluene (TNT) and other similar combinations of cancer producing pathogens and the earth with combustion by-products that seeped into the water tables making people sick. Atom bombs had nothing to do with those toxic episodes in the story of the jew's trans-generational lust for the blood of Gentiles.
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And with the growth of rocket delivery systems, nuclear dealers of death in many shapes and sizes fuelled nuclear anxiety.
People will always fear what they don't understand whether this inability to understand was induced in the context of formal schooling or the product of a chronic lack of exposure to a sound critique of current affairs. Or both. Understanding truth takes the fear away. The jew feeds off fear and generates as much of it as humanly possible to the create the conditions required to satisfy his needs.
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At the peak of the Cold War arms race in the nervous 1980s, an estimated arsenal of more than 70,000 nuclear weapons littered the earth.
Note the past tense, as if most of them do not exist anymore. Eventually the hoaxsters would say that it was THE NUCLEAR VIRGIN CANADA that converted that mess of illusions into MOX fuel. The "nervous 1980s," LOL. More like the "lucrative" 80s.
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Canada joined the arms race, mostly quietly, by borrowing in the 1960s from the United States. The unquiet exception was the aquisition of 56 Bomarc anti-aircraft missiles, split between bases at
North Bay, Ont., and La Macaza, Que. When John Diefenbaker, then prime minister, balked at accepting the nuclear warheads for the Bomarcs, Nobel Peace laureate Lester Pearson, Liberal Opposition leader, changed his stand and said he would. But the electorate replaced Deifenbaker's minority Conservative government with a minority Pearson administration on April 8, 1963.
First thing to note is that any "wanna-be" nuclear player is NOT GOING TO GET STARTED WITH DUMBASS Bomarc missiles. The smartest deterrent, if A Bombs had been real, would have been the nuclear submarine. Three of those fully equipped little submersible nightmares would have been sufficient to keep the other skunks in line. Sounds more like, for whatever reason, Canada wanted to project the illusion it had once yearned to join the nuclear hoaxsters in the bomb production or aquisitions games. In light of the notion that jews control the four corners of this planet we must suspect this Bomarc leak was intentional. This story of Bomarc's had to be important for Canada's jews to risk losing their image as nuclear virgins. The future was FULL OF HOAX LAUNDRY TO WASH, LOL.
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At about the same time, Canadian ground forces in Europe relinquished their "Honest John" nuclear missiles.
What is Canada doing with so-called nuclear weapons in Europe while THE HOMELAND SITS DEFENSELESS LIKE A DUCK beside the biggest warmongering nation on earth? The jew's illusions ARE ALWAYS FULL OF HOLES AND REVEALING GAPS. The kind of holes and gaps they could get away with as long AS THEY CONTROLLED THE MEDIA. The change IS REFRESHING TO US, THE GENTILES.
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But nuclear Genie missiles, arming fighter planes in Canada since 1964, remained on bases in Chatham, N.B., Bagotville, Que., and Comox, B.C.., until 1984.
First fact to note is that THOSE BASES IN QUESTION HAD NOTHING NEAR THE INFRASTRUCTURE REQUIRED TO AVOID THEFT OR SABOTAGE OR TERRORISM. Nobody in the right mind would put nuclear weapons in those places where security issues are very relaxed and sloppy. Any serious group could have easily infiltrated and aquired these so-called missiles if they had in fact been true and had in fact been deployed there as alleged in this piece. Sylvie (cactus wife) was in the Canadian Armed Forces in logistics for 13 years and she nor the people she knew from all these bases NEVER HEARD OF OR SAW NUCLEAR BOMBS ON THOSE BASES OR ANYWHERE IN CANADA FOR THAT MATTER. Further evidence that SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY WRONG WITH THE OFFICIAL A-BOMB STORIES.
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The two Cold War superpowers are also reducing their nuclear stockpiles now, although to target levels of thousands of warheads from tens of thousands.
This is what I like to describe as LAUNDERING THE HOAX. Out of sight, out of mind.
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China recently tested new weapons, as France plans to next month.
The serpents of illusion sheds their skin.

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(Last week, Canada joined the international chorus of nations calling on France to abandon it's controversial South Pacific nuclear testing program.)
Controlled opposition to ATTRACT ATTENTION TO THE BOOGEYMAN. Note also that as all controlled oppositions invariably do IS FAIL. What they invariably manage to accomplish with this controlled opposition is to draw attention and, in that, they are successful. Most every major public opposition has failed to produce the slightest chance or noticable result. Controlled opposition?
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Israel, India and Pakistan are among present or ready-to-be nuclear powers who refrain from signing onto the U.N. Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty.
This Non-proliferation U.N. smokescreen is part of the A Bomb hoax laundering mechanism. In place to project the illusion there was once something nuclear to disarm. It's hoax maintenance and laundering almost simultaneously. What a mess, LOL.
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Next to join the club may be Taiwan, says it's government.
Highly unlikely says logic and reason. "The CLUB, MORE LIKE A VEGAS CASINO WHERE THE HOUSE NEVER LOSES," LOL.
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There is an argument made that the nuclear age has promoted peace, or at least freedom from massively destructive warfare of the kind that closed 50 years ago.
War has raged on unabated for decades since the the A Bomb hoax was first presented in the 40s. If that damn pack of lies called the A Bomb hoax had a nicle of truth to it Israel and/or switzerland would be a red hot glassified craters by now. Terrorists/freedom-fighters (choose your favorite) would have melted more than one skunk-driven metropolis by now. Everyone admits the government is the most clumsy and incompetant entity ever created yet most are satified that they are competant enough to safeguard the world from nuclear terrorism for over 60 years, yeh, right, LOL. Freedom for the skunks but not a drop for the chained Gentile waiting for his jewish master to show him the way in the obscurity which is in fact the devil's shadow.
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The certainty of nuclear retaliation and the difficulty of defense against atomic bombardment deters any sane hand on the trigger.
We will never know if this deterrence stopped those that would press the button. How do we know that some nation that got fleeced or was out of the loop developed useless bombs and only found out after they pressed the button that they were dud's. We will never know who pressed their button and got caught this way. Anyone IN-THE-LOOP will not give much thought to the red button on the desk because they know it is worthless and just another prop to impress the incredules.
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In that sense, the tragedies of Hiroshima and Nagasaki inoculated the world against repeating such slaughter.
I remember a time when I used to say such things and I believed them to be true because of the absence of world wars, Now I understand that world war was the mass murder of Gentiles masquerading as failed diplomacy. The only thing that was inoculated was the hard working person's wallet against the desease of TOO MUCH MONEY TO SPEND. The world has been repeating the slaughter of Gentiles over and over, the author of this piece must live a very sheltered life.
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Reinforcing that argument, 50 years of unscathed life with the bomb seems to have immunized the world to it's menace.
"Immunized", LOL, the public is still bled full speed ahead for these dumb hoaxes.
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No longer prominent are the concious concerns of the Oppenheimers nor the anti-bomb protests that peopled the streets with fury and fear.
People should do the math before they go out in force against boogeymen. They should instead be marching to regain control of their wallets and the fruits of their hard work instead of lending legitimacy to those jew-driven impoverishing schemes. People should understand that the fruits of
their labor they let the jew take from them is being used by the jew to kill the worker in question. Until people start marching for the things that really matter in life I will only regard their feigned indignation at this or that as filthy controlled opposition to better manage the controvery and keep a lid on it.
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But in several ways, the nuclear threat has never been greater.
This the jew's way of asking the Gentiles to keep the A Bomb threat alive in their fearful minds just long enough for them to get THE MISSILE DEFENSE SHIELD HOAX ROLLING. In other word's the jew wants us to pay trillions to put the boogeyman away back under the bed so we can all rest better at night. I can see clearly why this pack of vampires have been SHOWN THE DOOR so often across history. They must be pretty good grovelers when they get caught to avoid full scale extermination. They are pure evil.
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The sundering of nations after the Cold War, the hawking of their nuclear weapons on black makets, the rise of populist fanatics impelled by anger, the refinement of the bomb into packages that fit a terrorist backpack--
If this was even marginally true Israel would be glass by now and humanity would be very different and the jew's power webs would have melted into insignificance and the new world leaders would be abundant and menacing and we would be desperately seeking a solution to avoid total destruction. Instead humanity has languished under the boot of the lying jews and their collections of stupid illusions. Public school is the #1 culprit that makes all this lack of critical thought possible.
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--all are cause for at least as much anxiety as the example of a great nation , unimpeded by fear of equal retribution, in obliterating two communities 50 years ago.
They did a lot more than obliterate two communities in that massacre of Gentiles the jews call world war. The jews firebombed most of Europe and a major portion of Japan. When the jews decided to slow down this unprecedented killing of Gentiles they celebrated by sending over 800 heavy bombers to pound Tokyo REAL HARD on August 15, 1945, many days after those two hoaxes the jews describe as atomic bombs. Pathetic.
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Those developments are also cause that the nuclear age remains as much or more than ever, a perilous time for humanity.
On the contrary. People are discovering the truth and finally losing that jew-induced fear and anxiety the jews milk massively with pharmaceuticals. Turn off the filthy illusions and what remains is liberty.
..offer up your best defense, this is the end..this is the end of the innocence.. Don Henley/Bruce Hornsby (the end of the innocence)
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Fred25
Why do you think there is no such thing as an atomic bomb?

Post Extras:
cactus
(rebel) 11/30/04
Read the thread Fred.

08:15 PM
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cactus
(rebel) 12/05/04 07:54 PM
My home province of Quebec said this weekend (3-4 Dec, 2004) that it refuses to participate in the American "Missile Defense Shield." LOL. Japan has bought into this fraud and Canada's "skunk-in-chief" is standing by to fleece the working masses for billions up here. What a mess. The world's strongest and so-called most resourceful and civilized nations on earth can't figure out the A Bomb hoax, pathetic. Open your wallets wide folks, the fleecers are on the march again. I would like to add a note concerning my accusations that Canada remained a nuclear virgin because they were slated to launder the A Bomb hoax by converting the bombs into MOX fuel. As time passes and I observe this high pitched fever to get the missile defense shield up and running I find myself wondering if this shield IS THE MAJOR A Bomb LAUNDERING DEVICE. Let me explain. As the shields are declared operational the skunks worldwide will declare the A Bombs obsolete and "voila," NO MORE A BOMBS. Pretty clever and comes with a price tag that may eventually surpass the original overall cost of A Bomb to date. People are prepared in some places to give up major portions of the fruits of their labors WITHOUT MAKING SURE A BOMBS EXIST FIRST. At least with this hoax people have no excuse for playing along because the truth is available for those who wish to see, the others will pay dearly for their incredulity in the face of these illusions of armaggeddon. ..offer up your best defense, this is the end..this is the end of the innocence.. Don Henley/Bruce Hornsby (the end of the innocence)
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Fred25
Why are you posting to yourself? Why do you think there is no such thing as an a-bomb?
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cactus
(rebel) 12/05/04 08:07 PM

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Why are you posting to yourself? Just because YOU have no need for this information does not mean others don't.
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Why do you think there is no such thing as an a-bomb? If you refuse to read the thread and decide instead to formulate a question that is so indicative that you have not read the thread then there is not much I or anyone can do to enlighten you. My reasons for refuting the existance of A Bombs are clearly illustrated in this thread, read it and come back if you still have questions. I will NOT repeat the entire thread in one post to satisfy you
apparent desire to get around doing the work yourself. ..offer up your best defense, this is the end..this is the end of the innocence.. Don Henley/Bruce Hornsby (the end of the innocence)
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Sh0t
(rebel) 12/06/04 01:12 PM
Making...sense...
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HappyPan t
(agitator) 12/06/04 01:23 PM
Flag to: OWK, Aurelius Is this for real? I've never heard of an A-bomb denier before. Veritas Vincit
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OWK
[ To: HappyPant | Post 293164810, reply to 293164473 ] (Score: 2)
I'm afraid he was serious. I propose we round up every one. It is unfortunate that children must suffer for their parents crimes." --LF Poster "Eichman".
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cactus
(rebel) 12/08/04 10:48 PM

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Making...sense... I am not sure if I read your post correctly, are you asking me a question?
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cactus
(rebel) 12/08/04 11:03 PM

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[ To: HappyPant | Post 293171226, reply to 293164473 ] (Score: 1)
Is this for real? According to the best information at my disposal at this time, yes, this unprecedented fraudulent misappropriation of public funds and fake atomic bombs is real. The serpent of illusion is about to fleece the hard working masses again by shedding it's skin and becoming the STRATEGIC MISSILE DEFENSE INITIATIVE.
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I've never heard of an A-bomb denier before. As the A Bomb hoax becomes more exposed and the jews have enormous difficulty managing the fallout, I assume they will try to have laws passed to jail this class of denier as well. Is there anything you would like me to explain further about this thread HappyPant? Do you have any reasons to believe the A-Bombs really exist?
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Magician
Flag to: Ombudsman, cactus This is a work of art. LMAO
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cactus
(rebel) 12/08/04 11:31 PM

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This is a work of art.
According to the atomic bomb theories it was said that NOTHING WOULD GROW IN HIROSHIMA FOR 75 YEARS after the so-called atomic explosion. Would you be surprised to learn that Oleanders were growing all over the place very shortly after the blast? This fact is very much in the Japanese collective psyche and they are described as miracles at every memorial where they are considered a part of this memorabilia. "A miracle," LOL.
Van Gogh's Oleanders
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| [ To: cactus | Post 293173601, reply to 293171200 ] (Score: 1)
Sh0t
(rebel) 12/09/04 04:46 PM
No, I'm saying it is starting to make sense
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Sh0t
(insurgent) 12/26/04 07:16 PM
http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/2/5/5/1
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The Indian Government surprised the world this week with a series of five nuclear tests, the county's first since a 'peaceful' explosion in 1974. On Monday, the country detonated a hydrogen bomb, a low yield atomic device, and a tactical nuclear weapon 100 metres below ground. Today, two sub kiloton explosions were carried out at the Pokhran test site in Rajasthan. These last two tests were not picked up by seismic stations set up for monitoring the comprehensive test ban treaty (CTBT). According to experts, no monitoring network could have picked up these last two explosions. The British Gelogological Survey registered Monday's hydrogen explosion at 4.7 on the Richter scale - similar to a light earthquake. But the failure of seismograph stations to register today's explosions highlights some of the problems with a nuclear test ban. The CTBT says that monitoring stations only need to detect explosions from bombs averaging more than 1000 tonnes of explosives, which would only produce a ground 'shake' of 1 nanometre in size. Below this level, noise from other events, such as mudslides, earthquakes or building construction sites interfere with nuclear 'signatures'. Smaller explosions, particular those taking place underground, are therefore hard to observe.
I am noticing a pattern of "failed to register" You may have a point "No country has ever been ruined on account of its debts." cactus
(insurgent) 12/26/04 07:28 PM
-- Adolf Hitler
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Thank you very much for bringing this up and the link, I will follow it and see if it needs a closer look. I appreciate your devotion to truth.
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Nephilim
(maverick) 12/31/04 05:08 AM
Interesting thread. I wish I could show it my father, he was a nuclear engineer and spent the better part of my childhood traversing the globe building reactors. We spent quite a bit of time discussing how nuclear generators work, how we build them, why we build them and why we shouldn't. We also discussed nuclear armaments, how they work, why they work and why we shouldn't be using them. He was of the opinion that mankind in general was far too stupid to have so much power at their disposal. And no, he wasn't Jewish :) Neph
Neph
"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." GWB - Washington, DC 12/18/00
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cactus
(insurgent) 12/31/04 06:16 AM

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[ To: Nephilim | Post 293229136, reply to 293228985 ] (Score: 2)
Interesting thread. I wish I could show it my father, I hope the obstactles preventing you from from showing this thread to your father are soon removed. Unless you mean he is no longer with us, I am sorry.
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he was a nuclear engineer and spent the better part of my childhood traversing the globe building reactors I take it your needs were well met. Good money in that business. It was my involvement with Monenco (formerly Montreal Engineering Co. Ltd.) that led to my assignment on two candu-style nuclear reactors in Varennes Quebec and most people around me were making top dollar. I was a draftsman when I first joined Monenco in the 70s. Could say I was living off a hoax, LOL. I know I was never in doubt at that time about the truth of the nuclear industry, having bigger revisionist plans on my mind that mostly involved research with girls, LOL. Debunking the NOs, LOL.
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We spent quite a bit of time discussing how nuclear generators work, how we build them, why we build them and why we shouldn't Sounds great. Never got into this stuff much with my father. I wonder if my father even had an opinion about such things. My father was a big collector of insects and butterflies having travelled extensively with the Canadian Forces as a flyer in peacetime. One of his friends manages the insectarium in Montreal.
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We also discussed nuclear armaments, how they work, why they work and why we shouldn't be using them. I would really like to hear your recollections of those discussions. The controversy ran deep for many.
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He was of the opinion that mankind in general was far too stupid to have so much power at their disposal And he still would be correct even in the absence of atom bombs. Mankind is racing ahead of it's better judgment. Man needs to chill out and re-examine his priorities and basic needs.
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And no, he wasn't Jewish :) Was your mother? Just kidding. Thanks for your input Neph. Any questions about this thread you would like to discuss with me?
"I pray for strength for what's ahead of me"- I'd Rather Die Than Be Your SlavePokerface
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/06/05 06:40 AM
Here are two links to threads that have information of relevance to this thread and that yourself and others might find interesting. Mike Rivero avoids talk of Tsunami Nuke Chernobyl revisited: Living in the dead zone "I pray for strength for what's ahead of me"- I'd Rather Die Than Be Your SlavePokerface
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Uvas
(tenderfoot) 01/09/05 08:20 AM
Yes fuel bombs may have some adverse health effects, aside from being too near one when it goes off :P. But a series of fuel bombs (snuck into many building in wartime conditions???) does not explain the residual radiation. The atomic bomb released two types of radiation, easily-detectable gamma rays and fast neutrons, which are harder to measure. Tore Straume of the University of Utah and Livermore National Laboratory and his colleagues used a new technique to measure miniscule amounts of a nickel isotope known as 63Ni (formed when fast neutrons strike copper) around Hiroshima. The researchers analyzed a variety of surfaces, including rain gutters and roofs, located up to 1,500 meters away from the blast site. The results confirm the earlier findings and provide "for the first time, clear measurement validation of the neutron doses to survivors in Hiroshima," according to the report. In an accompanying commentary Mark P. Little of Imperial College concludes that "the collective data from the survivors of the atomic bomb are likely to remain a valuable predictor of the risks of ionizing radiation." Fuel bombs do NOT produce fast neutrons. It was concluded that persons exposed to the bombs at the time of detonation did show effects from ionizing radiation and that some of these patients, otherwise uninjured, died. Deaths from radiation began about a week after exposure and reached a peak in 3 to 4 weeks. They practically ceased to occur after 7 to 8 weeks. The symptoms included hair loss, bleeding gums, nausea, diarrea, vomiting , fever, and rapid emanciation. The victims with most severe exposure were dead within 10 days. Those with moderate exposure had a 50% mortality rate after 4 weeks. The deaths stopped after 7 to 8 weeks. How does this in anyway, compare to deaths caused by fuel bombs? Direct measurements of persistent radioactivity were made at the time of the investigation. From these measurements, calculations were made of the graded radiation dosages, i.e., the total amount of radiation which could have been absorbed by any person. These calculations showed that the highest dosage which would have been received from persistent radioactivity at Hiroshima was between 6 and 25 roentgens of gamma radiation; the highest in the Nagasaki Area was between 30 and 110 roentgens of gamma radiation. The latter figure does not refer to the city itself, but to a localized area in the Nishiyama District. In interpreting these findings it must be understood that to get these dosages, one would have had to remain at the point of highest radioactivity for 6 weeks continuously, from the first hour after the bombing. It is apparent therefore that insofar as could be determined at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the residual radiation alone could not have been detrimental to the health of persons entering and living in the bombed areas after the explosion. It was concluded therefore as a result of these findings and lack of findings, that although a measurable quantity of induced radioactivity was found, it had not been sufficient to cause any harm to persons living in the two cities after the bombings.
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/09/05 09:57 AM
[ To: Uvas | Post 293256635, reply to 293256374 ] (Score: 2)
Thanks for your post Uvas.

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Yes fuel bombs may have some adverse health effects, aside from being too near one when it goes off :P. Right. TNT production in the United Stated has been very noxious for those in the areas surrounding these uniquely military factory installations. Cancers, you name it. Lawsuits too. You don't even need to be near the initial detonation to be showered with the ignited gasoline from the initial blast. Very nasty stuff.
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But a series of fuel bombs (snuck into many building in wartime conditions???) does not explain the residual radiation. Oleanders were thriving shortly after Hiroshima and Oppenheimer and Gen Groves made several photoshoots directly under the 100 foot tower that detonated a so-called 20kt atomic bomb and never contracted the slightest tumor and went on to lead normal lives. It was said in the mathemnatical models with regards to radiation from so-called atomic bombs that NOTHING would grow in Hiroshima for 70 years and I don't think Groves et-al waited 70 years for that famous ground-zero photo-shoot. So, what are saying about radiation? Radiation, as you suggest it, is x-ray by another name and was not a factor in the Firebombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The historical seismograms of these two bombings, if ever made available, will confirm this point clearly.
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The atomic bomb released two types of radiation, easily-detectable gamma rays and fast neutrons, which are harder to measure. Tore Straume of the University of Utah and Livermore National Laboratory and his colleagues used a new technique to measure miniscule amounts of a nickel isotope known as 63Ni (formed when fast neutrons strike copper) around Hiroshima. We have not been shown the seismograms of ANY so-called nuclear blasts and I don't expect we will anytime soon because they are the "DNA" test for truth in this matter. To give credance to the radiation reports as suggested in this quote would be to say that we have evidence of the existance of atomic bombs. We have no such evidence. The atomic bombs appear to be a pseudo-science without a subject matter. That would be exo-science at best. Wishful thinking at worst.
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The researchers analyzed a variety of surfaces, including rain gutters and roofs, located up to 1,500 meters away from the blast site. I have not seen these records and I believe the soil samples have conserved the gasoline traces at some levels. I would like to see this material, do you have a link?
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The results confirm the earlier findings and provide "for the first time, clear measurement validation of the neutron doses to survivors in Hiroshima," according to the report What report? Who commissioned it?
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In an accompanying commentary Mark P. Little of Imperial College concludes that "the collective data from the survivors of the atomic bomb are likely to remain a valuable predictor of the risks of ionizing radiation." Seismogram evidence would outweigh all that. Simpler too. Do you ever wonder why
we were never shown historical seismograms for Hiroshima/Nagasaki.? You know, the seismologist withe the bi-focals and goatee walking the public through to see exacly how it happened. Something that would show the distinctive signatures of an nonfuelbomb event.
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Fuel bombs do NOT produce fast neutrons. Decaying matter produces fast neutrons. Matter does not need so-called atomic bombs to decompose. What about the OLEANDERS, are they nuke-proof, LOL?
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It was concluded that persons exposed to the bombs at the time of detonation did show effects from ionizing radiation and that some of these patients, otherwise uninjured, died. What atom bomb? Where are the suppressed records of all those witnesses that SMELLED the napalm in the air everywhere that day. Do so-called atom bombs destroy odor?
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Deaths from radiation began about a week after exposure and reached a peak in 3 to 4 weeks. Where are the medical reports, names of doctors. Why did they not evacuate Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the so-called atom bomb yet they buried the islands in the Pacific with metric tons of concrete. How do you rationalize this?
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The symptoms included hair loss, bleeding gums, nausea, diarrea, vomiting , fever, and rapid emanciation Take a gasoline shower and let me know what happens to your health. My wife was transferred from "petrol, oil, lubricants" division of her job with military logistics because she was pregnant. She did however work there at first without knowing she was pregnant but she was transferred out when the medical confirmation of pregnancy was submitted to her superiors. If the son we had several months later had been born in Hiroshima they would have pegged his transposition of the great arteries on the Hiroshima bomb fallout. Do you understand?
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The victims with most severe exposure were dead within 10 days. Those with moderate exposure had a 50% mortality rate after 4 weeks. The deaths stopped after 7 to 8 weeks. How does this in anyway, compare to deaths caused by fuel bombs? Medical reports? Names? Lists? Do you think the only thing that can cause illness is socalled atomic radiation. Do you suppose that, apart from so-called atom bombs, we live in a cancer free world?
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Direct measurements of persistent radioactivity were made at the time of the investigation. From these measurements, calculations were made of the graded radiation dosages, i.e., the total amount of radiation which could have been absorbed by any person. These calculations showed that the highest dosage which would have been received from persistent radioactivity at Hiroshima was between 6 and 25 roentgens of gamma radiation; the highest in the Nagasaki Area was between 30 and 110 roentgens of gamma radiation. Links? Names, Institutions?
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The latter figure does not refer to the city itself, but to a localized area in the Nishiyama District. In interpreting these findings it must be understood that to get these dosages, one would have had to remain at the point of highest radioactivity for 6 weeks continuously, from the first hour after the bombing. It is apparent therefore that insofar as could be determined at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the residual radiation alone
could not have been detrimental to the health of persons entering and living in the bombed areas after the explosion Lets have a look at these reports, discuss them.
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It was concluded therefore as a result of these findings and lack of findings, that although a measurable quantity of induced radioactivity was found, it had not been sufficient to cause any harm to persons living in the two cities after the bombings. Do you find this normal? How does this correlate with the predictions of 70 years contamination? The official story of the so-called atomic bombs and nuclear energy is SO FULL OF HOLES you could almost call it a mosquito screen. Contradiction and suppressed evidence is more often than not a clear indication of the suppression of truth. Let's start by establishing the truth about the existance or non-existance of atomic bombs and nuclear energy before we start blaming premeditated demineralization of the food supplies of the masses and ignited gasoline showers on radiation and fake atomic bombs. The atom bomb hoax is among the biggest ever hoisted on mankind by organized crime (jews by another name). I appreciate you input and look forward to examining these elements of evidence you outlined in your post. I would really like to take a closer look at those records.
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Ninpo
[ To: cactus | Post 293256751, reply to 293256635 ] (Score: -1)
We have not been shown the seismograms of ANY so-called nuclear blasts and I don't expect we will anytime soon because they are the "DNA" test for truth in this matter. You have got to be one of the biggest lying scumbags on the net, and If I ever see you I will anally rape you with a glue gun.
"Good Lord, what a pathetic self-loathing individual you are. " P-stain to kutzu
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/09/05 12:37 PM

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You have got to be one of the biggest lying scumbags on the net, and If I ever see you I will anally rape you with a glue gun. Advocating violence on the web is not in line with the concepts of liberty.
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Ninpo
Neither is lying about all the shit that you make up. Are you smoking crack again?
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,the philosophy which does not laugh, and the greatness which does not bow before children.Kahlil Gibran
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/09/05 01:07 PM

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Neither is lying about all the shit that you make up. I am not lying. Where is you evidence that I lied?
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Are you smoking crack again? Now you are being silly.
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Ninpo
Where is you evidence that I lied? Well, Where would i begin?
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,the philosophy which does not laugh, and the greatness which does not bow before children.Kahlil Gibran
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Uvas
(tenderfoot) 01/09/05 02:21 PM
Ok, I will try to answer you point by point. The first point you made is a bit of subterfuge, mental sleight of hand if you will. You say that the production of TNT is noxious and bad for enviornment, etc. That is true, but has nothing to do with our discussion. We were discussing the after-effects of a fuelbomb going off. Perhaps YOU could come forward with some statistics on the aftereffects of fuel bomb injuries, and how they compare to what actually happened at Hiroshima. Point two: regrowth of plant life. Fact of the matter was, no one really knew what the effects would be. Ants, termites, and cockroaches all survived. Any seeds or root systems protected by more than a few inches of dirt also survived. The residual radiation was pretty low. 10% of the radioactive material was consumed in the blast, the other 90% mostly went up in the mushroom cloud. This was rained out of the atmosphere with the black rain. It was spread out over a large area, so in actuality, the radiation was maybe only 50% higher than from natural sources. You would have to stay in the highest zones for 6 straight weeks from the first hour of the bombing to catch a serious dose. And the rains eventually deluted and washed away most of what was left. If the oleanders lived at the test site, then obviously the predictions were very wrong. So what? I also don't find your scenario of sneaking in bombs throughout the city very plausible. Point 3: You gave no alternate explaination of how the nickel isotope was formed around ground zero at Hiroshima. As to nukes not being real: Intensive efforts to negotiate a Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty were caried out from
1958 to 1963, resulting in the Limited Test Ban Treaty banning nuclear tests from the atmosphere, underwater, and in space. Underground nuclear explosions were not banned, in part because seismological methods for monitoring the underground environment were thought to be inadequate. Over the subsequent 30 years, more than 1500 nuclear tests were carried out underground. They showed that seismological methods of monitoring a CTBT were far better than had been thought in early treaty negotiations, and, by the late 1960s, met the level of monitoring capability desired in 1963. Had the global monitoring system advocated in 1958 been built, its capabilities would have far exceeded the capability then said to have been necessary for a CTBT. Url: http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~richards/earlyCTBThistory.html 1500 seismographic evidences. Point 5: I misplaced the url for that bit of research. Perhaps if you search for hiroshima and that nickle isotope might get you somewhere. That is also the report you were looking for. I will try to find it again. Point 6: Decaying matter produces fast neutrons??? lol A fast neutron is a free neutron with a kinetic energy level close to 1 MeV (10 TJ/kg, hence a speed of 14,000 km/s. They are named fast neutrons to distinguish them from lower-energy thermal neutrons, and high energy neutrons produced in cosmic showers. Fast neutrons are produced by nuclear processes such as nuclear fission. Work on your science a little, please. Point 7: Suppressed records? Perhaps a little proof is in order here. Point 8: Those medical records are fairly easy to find on the net. I don't understand the islands buried under concrete part, sorry. Point 9: How many people, no offense meant to your wife's sickness, do you know that were drenched in gas and suffered the injuries and deaths typical of Hiroshima victims? These are not long range injuries as I have shown you that the residual radiation was pretty weak. Thes victims were out in the open when it hit. They got the dose of gamma radiation from the blast. Point 10: Again these victims were very atypical, they were all dead within 8 weeks because they were out in the open and were exposed to the gamma rays. I am not talking about long term deaths because 75% of exposed people were already dead in 2 months time. Points after: Again the predictions of 70 years was obviously wrong. They should have know that from the oleanders. It was a wrong prediction, so what? They also predicted that the lunar lander would be swallowed in a sea of lunar dust. Guess what, they were wrong in that prediction, too. So what. I am sorry about the wait for that report url as I had to reboot my comp before I saved the page. I am looking for it right now. Oh a side note. You say perhaps it was a fuel/air bomb over Hiroshima? Well, remember when they tested that new daisycutter in Florida before the start of the second Gulf War? It held 19,000 lbs of explosives and could only be carried in a modified largest kind of military cargo plane. It did produce a mushroom like cloud that went up 10,000 feet. The mushroom cloud at Hiroshima went up 40,000 ft in a matter of 2 or 3 minutes. So we can deduce that little boy was at least 4 times as big, probably more. How many WWII aircraft do you know of that can carry a 100,000 lb bomb? Cheers. Here is one small article I mentioned above, from Scientific American: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=00007828-2EFD-1F288D4A80A84189EEDF
Here is another report from Yale's education site: http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/abomb/mp22.htm

Edited by Uvas on 01/09/05 03:06 PM.
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/09/05 03:13 PM

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Ok, I will try to answer you point by point. Very good habit.
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The first point you made is a bit of subterfuge, mental sleight of hand if you will. You say that the production of TNT is noxious and bad for enviornment, etc. That is true, but has nothing to do with our discussion. It has everything to do with this discussion. Correct me if I am wrong but you gave me the impression you were certifying the existance of atomic bombs with the cancer issues you brought up. And, like you say, I am correct then lets move on. Stay focused Uvas.
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We were discussing the after-effects of a fuelbomb going off We are discussing so-called atomic radiation as a function of evidence in support of the existance of atomic bombs. If, like I said, fuel bombs were used to simulate atomic blast then you would still find cancers and other illnesses. The new cases have nothing to do with that. The new cancers can be caused by any number of things.
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Perhaps YOU could come forward with some statistics on the after-effects of fuel bomb injuries, and how they compare to what actually happened at Hiroshima. Are you denying that fuel contains cancer pathogens, are you implying that fuel is biofriendly? Why do you need evidence of this? The damage incurred at Hiroshima is consistent with firebombing. READ THE THREAD.
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Point two: regrowth of plant life. Fact of the matter was, no one really knew what the effects would be. Ants, termites, and cockroaches all survived. Not true. The mathematical models spoke of radiation horrors lasting incredible amounts of time. This was bogus as is the rest. How can you feel satisfied in your beliefs in this matter while denying the horrors that were said to be an integral part of the atomic boogeyman. Find the number of people claiming compensation for test blasts in the South Pacific and correlate that to the absence of corresponding claimants on the Hiro/Naga events and you find odd disparities that don't explain away so easy. The damage from these bombs, if they were real, would be consistent. The official records are a mess of contradictions. The radiation boogeyman is a veritable camelion of value transitions. One day it's miraculously gone away the next it is a formidable devil of instantaneous death. Can't have it both ways. I say this contradiction rather confirms my position than refute it. The contradictions are a smokescreen against truth.
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The residual radiation was pretty low. 10% of the radioactive material was consumed in the blast, the other 90% mostly went up in the mushroom cloud. This was rained out of the atmosphere with the black rain. It was spread out over a large area, so in actuality, the radiation was maybe only 50% higher than from natural sources. You would have to stay in the highest zones for 6 straight weeks from the first hour of the
bombing to catch a serious dose. And the rains eventually deluted and washed away most of what was left. The official picture of the Hiroshima mushroom cloud is illuminated on the top by a noon-hour sunlight. The blast was reported as an early morning blast. Are things like this consequential for you?
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If the oleanders lived at the test site, then obviously the predictions were very wrong. So what? The story of the atomic bomb is a bogus pile of wishful thinking, that's what. What is so special about atom bombs if they do nothing?
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I also don't find your scenario of sneaking in bombs throughout the city very plausible. Even in light of the fact that you can't possibly prove that explosives did not come in this way, I gave trhis possibilty a low priority. I like the napalm shower model best with basically no support from the ground unless we are talking of post napalm hoax induction and maintenance.
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You gave no alternate explaination of how the nickel isotope was formed around ground zero at Hiroshima. I might if you let me examine these reports. Where do you find ALL YOUR BLIND FAITH. What is it about this hoax that compels you to make such big efforts to give it legitimacy? It's a sinking ship. Wet cardboard in the rain.
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As to nukes not being real: Intensive efforts to negotiate a Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty were caried out from 1958 to 1963, resulting in the Limited Test Ban Treaty banning nuclear tests from the atmosphere, underwater, and in space. Hoax laundering. The test ban treaties are part of the atom bomb hoax laundering mechanism. Out of sight, out of mind. Now that zillions have been fleeced from the hard working masses to project this terrible illusion of super power.
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Underground nuclear explosions were not banned, in part because seismological methods for monitoring the underground environment were thought to be inadequate. This lie was promulgated to make sure the public never learns just how precise the seismological sciences have become and how good their PREDICTION capacities are. Underground seismic activity can be analyzed in very great detail. Prove otherwise.
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They showed that seismological methods of monitoring a CTBT were far better than had been thought in early treaty negotiations, and, by the late 1960s, met the level of monitoring capability desired in 1963. Had the global monitoring system advocated in 1958 been built, its capabilities would have far exceeded the capability then said to have been necessary for a CTBT. Url: http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~richards/earlyCTBThistory.html BS. Seismology got started in the mid-1700s in Portugal. They have evolved a great deal since then. Are you now going to say that the wave of technological advances did not affect the sciences of seismology?
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1500 seismographic evidences. Those are not full sets of seismological records.
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Point 5: I misplaced the url for that bit of research. Perhaps if you search for hiroshima and that nickle isotope might get you somewhere. That is also the report you were looking for. I will try to find it again. Good luck.
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Point 6: Decaying matter produces fast neutrons??? lol A fast neutron is a free neutron with a kinetic energy level close to 1 MeV (10 TJ/kg, hence a speed of 14,000 km/s. They are named fast neutrons to distinguish them from lower-energy thermal neutrons, and high energy neutrons produced in cosmic showers. Fast neutrons are produced by nuclear processes such as nuclear fission. Can you prove this? I have never seen this in action. How do you verify this short of becoming a physicist? Something plain we can all understand.
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Work on your science a little, please. In the meantime you might like to make YOUR science a little more understandable for regular folk. You know, like analogies, comparative models, stuff like that.
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Point 7: Suppressed records? Perhaps a little proof is in order here. I would have thought you would provide these records yourself in light of the fact that you allude to them being readily available. If you did not post these records it's because you do not know where they are. Throwing this responsibility back to me is no explanation
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Point 8: Those medical records are fairly easy to find on the net. I don't understand the islands buried under concrete part, sorry. See the movie, "Trinity, " the "Atom Bomb Movie." You must have heard of it. They show the crews laying out the concrete. That's entry level stuff if you are serious about this stuff. .
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Point 9: How many people, no offense meant to your wife's sickness, do you know that were drenched in gas and suffered the injuries and deaths typical of Hiroshima victims? My wife did not have a sickness. She bore a cardiac son. Most people drenched in ignited gasoline have passed away from their injuries. How many have you met that are suffering illness they say is the result Of the bombinb of Hiroshima?
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These are not long range injuries as I have shown you that the residual radiation was pretty weak. Thes victims were out in the open when it hit. They got the dose of gamma radiation from the blast. Most of it is probably bogus to collect compensationfraudulently or illness finding it's origins in the many schemes designed by jews to kill us off slowly and cash in on the illness. De-mineralization of global foodstocks would be a case in point. Will you deny that illness is possible outside your so-called atom bomb context? I would say that it is your contradictory evidence that is pretty weak.
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Point 10: Again these victims were very atypical, they were all dead within 8 weeks because they were out in the open and were exposed to the gamma rays. I am not talking about long term deaths because 75% of exposed people were already dead in 2 months time.
Says who?
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Points after: Again the predictions of 70 years was obviously wrong. They should have know that from the oleanders. It was a wrong prediction, so what? They also predicted that the lunar lander would be swallowed in a sea of lunar dust. Guess wht, they were wrong in their prediction there, too. So what. Now THAT is a textbook definition of a "weak argument."
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I am sorry about the wait for that report url as I had to reboot my comp before I saved the page. I am looking for it right now. I appreciate your contribution. Keep it com'in. "I pray for strength for what's ahead of me"- I'd Rather Die Than Be Your SlavePokerface
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/09/05 04:30 PM

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Where is you evidence that I lied? Well, Where would i begin? Anywhere you like. Remaining relevant, of course.
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/09/05 08:57 PM
I have taken a look at the first of the two links you provided (thanks) and here are some of my thoughts about the information you gave me an opportunity to examine; scientic america.com New Technique Confirms Hiroshima Radiation Levels July 31, 2003
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It's been nearly 58 years since an atomic bomb was dropped on the Japanese city of Hiroshima near the end of World War II. Now, on the eve of the blast's anniversary, the uncertainty surrounding radiation levels inflicted on survivors may finally be settled. What uncertainty? Who are these survivors, what are they being paid? Where are the medical reports, names?
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A report published today in the journal Nature confirms earlier radiation results, thereby increasing confidence in estimates of cancer risk that are based on the data. Don't expect these skunks to find causes of cancer in de-mineralization of the food supplies, toxic eating habits, toxic drugs etc. The hypocrite impostors calling themselves doctors over there in Hiroshima and scapegoating fake atom bombs for the
desease-inducing measures the jews have introduced there are pathetic false priests and paid hoax maintenance personnel. These filthy skunks should be looking at the real evils that cause cancer and social decay.
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Survivors of the Hiroshima bomb gave scientists a rare opportunity to study what effect extremely high doses of radiation can have on people. Of course we are expected to take this on BLIND FAITH. What survivors, do they have names or did the so-called atom bomb wipe the slate clean? Who's research?
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The information is used to set safe levels of exposure and calculate cancer risks for radiation in other areas, from medicinal X-rays to nuclear power plants. They will blame every cancer on every imaginable hoax before they admit to the REAL SOURCES OF CANCER. De-mineralization of the food supplies and severe contamination of the world's water supplies and water tables. The jew in positions of leadership is pure poison.
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Consequently, if the radiation levels from the bombs were underestimated--as some reports in the mid-1980s had suggested they were--the effects would be far-reaching. Note the absence of supportive documentation or hyper-links imbedded in the text of this piece. Note the absence of comparitive models to explain how this so-called radiation estimate was so far off. A more suiting name for this website would be "wishful thinking america dot com, LOL. Oleanders were growing all over the place shortly after the Hiroshima bombing.
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The atomic bomb released two types of radiation, easily-detectable gamma rays and fast neutrons, which are harder to measure. They gave off a liitle bullshit too but that was harder to smell because odor is absent from the official records of the Hiroshima bombing. "Easily detectable" LOL. The equipment required to measure and examine the fast neutrons is VERY SPECIALIZED. Lots of room for fraud and fraudulent misrepresentation.
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Tore Straume of the University of Utah and Livermore National Laboratory and his colleagues used a new technique to measure miniscule amounts of a nickel isotope known as 63Ni (formed when fast neutrons strike copper) around Hiroshima. See what all that money fleeced from the working masses for reseach in these fields has yielded, the foundations for future hoaxes to better service older ones. This bogus study is just atom bomb hoax maintenance and serves no other purpose unless to support some other fraud in the medical prognostics branch. Those dumbass magnetic imaging clinics encouraging thier patients to describe the procedure as NUCLEAR MEDECINE. MRI used as instrument of hoax maintenance. MRI is not a hoax, only the nuclear label is.
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The researchers analyzed a variety of surfaces, including rain gutters and roofs, located up to 1, 500 meters away from the blast site. The results confirm the earlier findings and provide "for the first time, clear measurement validation of the neutron doses to survivors in Hiroshima," according to the report. You know, with the money and resources these people have at their disposal you might expect that they would aquire a full set of historical seismograms of the Hiroshima bombing to certify that atomic bombs are real before comitting energy and resources to wishful thinking. I mean, would this not be the cheapest, most efficient way to go about getting the truth figured out before building on wet cardboard?
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In an accompanying commentary Mark P. Little of Imperial College concludes that "the collective data from the survivors of the atomic bomb are likely to remain a valuable predictor of the risks of ionizing radiation." --Sarah Graham The "collective data" from the so-called survivors of the so-called atom bomb are likely to REMAIN OUT OF THE PUBLIC EYE FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE. In closing of this examination of the link you provided I will comment on the
mushroom cloud shown with the article in question. That is not the official Hiroshima bomb picture;
I will look at your other link a little later and let you know. "I pray for strength for what's ahead of me"- I'd Rather Die Than Be Your SlavePokerface
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Uvas
(neophyte) 01/10/05 01:47 PM
I am only going to go over the first point that you replied to; You somehow made the connection between your wife giving birth to a child with some kind of artery? problem with her work at a TNT? factory. You have not given any proof of a link between the two facts. Onward, you then stated the fact that the production of TNT is bad for the enviornment. Fine, but that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the results of the damage done by a fuel-bomb exploding. (Which by the way, you have shown absolutely no statistics or url's on the after-effects of a fuel bombing. I am just supposed to take your word for it?) The discussion is whether a fuel-bomb exploding can convincingly explain the sort of damages sustained at Hiroshima and the fatal illnesses that befell the people who were exposed to it. I should not even need to bring up the fact that fuel-air bombs weren't even developed until the 1960's. You seem to confuse or switch between the effects of direct radiation from the blast with residual radiation, at will. They are two seperate things. Either you don't understand the difference, or you are being disingenuous. I don't believe the first, as you seem quite intelligent. I didn't bring up cancer at all, I talked of the effects of being exposed to the gamma rays from the blast, radiation poisoning. I didn't bring up anything about the hazards of producing the materials for the atomic bomb. It is you that needs to stay focused. And so it seems that you are not correct. When you bring forward some convincing proof or statistics on fuel bomb injuries and how they can possibly explain the 8 weeks of death that the exposed victims of Hiroshima faced, I will continue this discussion, not before. I am not going to argue your heresay arguments anymore, because they are silly.
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/10/05 02:46 PM
I have examined the information at the second link you provided and will share with you and the readers my opinions; The Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki Chapter 22 - Radiation Injuries
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As pointed out in another section of this report the radiations from the nuclear
explosions which caused injuries to persons were primarily those experienced within the first second after the explosion; a few may have occurred later, but all occurred in the first minute. The author of this piece does not appear concerned by the contradictions between the mathematical models predicted and the failure of this model in the real world.
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The other two general types of radiation, viz., radiation from scattered fission products and induced radioactivity from objects near the center of explosion, were definitely proved not to have caused any casualties. Incredibly enough, this person is talking about the effects of a so-called atom bomb. Reads more like he is describing a firebombing. Note the elasticity in the concepts of radioactive duration and doses. The so-called radiation is low to accomodate certain elements of this awesome hoax then the next minute it will boil your intestines at close proximity if you dare approach it to confirm the veracity of the atom bomb claims.
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The proper designation of radiation injuries is somewhat difficult. Probably the two most direct designations are radiation injury and gamma ray injury. The former term is not entirely suitable in that it does not define the type of radiation as ionizing and allows possible confusion with other types of radiation (e.g., infra-red). The confusion is in the deceptive labels the jews have given x-rays. Radiation is x-ray in disguise. Fast neutrons are wishful thinking (don't exist). The natural and artificial decay of matter is real enough along with it's natural predisposition at storing and emanating x-rays. The eccentricities that draw something from nothing are the age old dream (still unfulfilled) of achemists. I believe diamonds can be cultured artificially using modern technological advancement and perhaps these diamonds are really better than Mother Natures' but that is not something from nothing.
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The objection to the latter term is that it limits the ionizing radiation to gamma rays, which were undoubtedly the most important; but the possible contribution of neutron and even beta rays to the biological effects cannot be entirely ignored. First thing to note here is that the author of this piece has never seen a full set of historical seismograms of the Hiroshima bombing. In other words he has never seen irrefutable proof that the atom bomb exists yet all the research in question is based on this wet cardboard in the rain. Note also the use of the words "undoubtedly" and "possible." Floating logic. Paragraph-filler.
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Radiation injury has the advantage of custom, since it is generally understood in medicine to refer to X-ray effect as distinguished from the effects of actinic radiation. LOL, radiation is x-ray by another name.
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Accordingly, radiation injury is used in this report to mean injury due only to ionizing radiation. Also, so-called radiation injury is used in that report to mean HOAX MAINTENANCE.
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According to Japanese observations, the early symptons in patients suffering from radiation injury closely resembled the symptons observed in patients receiving intensive roentgen therapy, as well as those observed in experimental animals receiving large doses of X-rays. I wonder why, LOL? They ARE x-rays Weisenheimer.
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The important symptoms reported by the Japanese and observed by American authorities were epilation (lose of hair), petechiae (bleeding into the skin), and other hemorrhagic manifestations, oropharyngeal lesions (inflammation of the mouth and throat), vomiting, diarrhea, and fever. So there you have it people, this paragraph describes perfectly the symptoms described by and experinced by so-called radiation therapy patients. X-rays can induce ALL THIS. The author of this piece admits as much. Can you beat that?
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Epilation was one of the most spectacular and obvious findings. The appearance of the epilated patient was typical. The crown was involved more than the sides, and in many instances the resemblance to a monk's tonsure was striking. In extreme cases the hair was totally lost. In some cases, re-growth of hair had begun by the time patients were seen 50 days after the bombing. Curiously, epilation of hair other than that of the scalp was extremely unusual. The striking thing here is that he discounts all other potential causitive agents that could be responsible for this affliction if this is not just another case of prognostic fraud.
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Petechiae and other hemorrhagic manifestations were striking findings. Bleeding began usually from the gums and in the more seriously affected was soon evident from every possible source. Petechiae appeared on the limbs and on pressure points. Large ecchymoses (hemorrhages under the skin) developed about needle punctures, and wounds partially healed broke down and bled freely. Retinal hemorrhages occurred in many of the patients. The bleeding time and the coagulation time were prolonged. The platelets (coagulation of the blood) were characteristically reduced in numbers. Where does anyone see atom bombs in this?
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Nausea and vomiting appearing within a few hours after the explosion was reported frequently by the Japanese. Who, names, etc?
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This usually had subsided by the following morning, although occasionally it continued for two or three days. Are they now using morning sickness of pregnancy to do atom bomb hoax maintenance now?
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Vomiting was not infrequently reported and observed during the course of the later symptoms, although at these times it generally appeared to be related to other manifestation of systemic reactions associated with infection. Says who? Where are the lists, names. Where's the accountability of all this? Sounds like crap to me. Smells skunk (not LF's distinguished member) real bad too.
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Diarrhea of varying degrees of severity was reported and observed. In the more severe cases, it was frequently bloody. For reasons which are not yet clear, the diarrhea in some cases was very persistent. Sounds pretty vague to me. Highly unverifiable too.
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Lesions of the gums, and the oral mucous membrane, and the throat were observed. The affected areas became deep red, then violacious in color; and in many instances ulcerations and necrosis (breakdown of tissue) followed. Blood counts done and recorded by the Japanese, as well as counts done by the Manhattan Engineer District Group, on such patients regularly showed leucopenia (low-white blood cell count). In extreme cases the white blood cell count was below 1,000 (normal count is around 7,000). These statements are completely hollow without substance or accoutability. The whole article thus far has expected truckloads of BLIND FAITH from the reader.
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In association with the leucopenia and the oropharyngeal lesions, a variety of other infective processes were seen. Wounds and burns which were healing adequately suppurated and serious necrosis occurred. At the same time, similar ulcerations were observed in the larynx, bowels, and in females, the gentalia. Fever usually accompanied these lesions. Eye injuries produced by the atomic bombings in both cities were the subject of special investigations. The usual types of mechanical injuries were seen. In addition, lesions consisting of retinal hemorrhage and exudation were observed and 75% of the patients showing them had other signs of radiation injury.
Just more of the same.

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It was concluded that persons exposed to the bombs at the time of detonation did show effects from ionizing radiation and that some of these patients, otherwise uninjured, died. Links? Reports, anything?
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Deaths from radiation began about a week after exposure and reached a peak in 3 to 4 weeks. They practically ceased to occur after 7 to 8 weeks. This from someone that has never set eyes on a full set of historical seismograms of the bombing of Hiroshima. Observe how deep this person is while oblivious to the truth or fallacy of the atomic bomb itself. All blind faith and the hoaxster's USER'S MANUALS (public schools)
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Treatment of the burns and other physical injuries was carried out by the Japanese by orthodox methods. Orthodox Japanese jews methods of record manipulation for profit. Laundering the jews responsibility in the multiple de-mineralization schemes they have poisoned the global food stocks with. They are scapegoating so-called radiation from so-called atom bombs to hide their mass murder/illness rackets worldwide.
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Treatment of radiation effects by them included general supportative measures such as rest and high vitamin and caloric diets. Liver and calcium preparations were administered by injection and blood transfusions were used to combat hemorrhage. Special vitamin preparations and other special drugs used in the treatment of similar medical conditions were used by American Army Medical Corps officers after their arrival. Although the general measures instituted were of some benefit no definite effect of any of the specific measures on the course of the disease could be demonstrated. The use of sulfonamide drugs by the Japanese and particularly of penicillin by the American physicians after their arrival undoubtedly helped control the infections and they appear to be the single important type of treatment which may have effectively altered the earlier course of these patients. I will leave it to the reader to decide how much of this is true. Sounds like a lot of bull to me. Especially in the light of the fact that atom bombs were NEVER real outside the minds of the devils that hoisted them upon mankind to fleece him blind and control his destiney.
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One of the most important tasks assigned to the mission which investigated the effects of the bombing was that of determining if the radiation effects were all due to the instantaneous discharges at the time of the explosion, or if people were being harmed in addition from persistent radioactivity. Yeah right, forget about the many other GOOD reasons why people are getting deathly ill and leading toxic lifestyles. It is not atom bombs that don't exist but rather the filthy culture of profit seeking hoaxsters and mass murderers that lurk like a plague in our midst and plots our demise every living instant.
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This question was investigated from two points of view. Direct measurements of persistent radioactivity were made at the time of the investigation. From these measurements, calculations were made of the graded radiation dosages, i.e., the total amount of radiation which could have been absorbed by any person. These calculations showed that the highest dosage which would have been received from persistent radioactivity at Hiroshima was between 6 and 25 roentgens of gamma radiation; the highest in the Nagasaki Area was between 30 and 110 roentgens of gamma radiation. This flies in the face of the original mathematical models of atom bomb toxicity. Still in blind faith mode.
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The latter figure does not refer to the city itself, but to a localized area in the Nishiyama District. In interpreting these findings it must be understood that to get these dosages, one would have had to remain at the point of highest radioactivity for 6
weeks continuously, from the first hour after the bombing. It is apparent therefore that insofar as could be determined at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the residual radiation alone could not have been detrimental to the health of persons entering and living in the bombed areas after the explosion. In other words the atom bomb is a hoax. This research bogus. The critical mind gone out to lunch if it exists at all in these impostors.
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The second approach to this question was to determine if any persons not in the city at the time of the explosion, but coming in immediately afterwards exhibited any symptoms or findings which might have been due to persistence induced radioactivity. I'd sure like to sit down with those persons if they really exist and talk odor with them. Bet it smelled napalm fume odors everywhere. Hiroshima was a firebombing masquerading as new radical weaponry. A big show. I have never see evidence that ANYONE was in that city that morning. For all I know they could have evacuated this military town just before the fireworks. Does anyone have evidence that someone was there that morning? Where did they bury all those dead people? Were they cremated for contamination reasons?
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By the time of the arrival of the Manhattan Engineer District group, several Japanese studies had been done on such persons. None of the persons examined in any of these studies showed any symptoms which could be attributed to radiation, and their actual blood cell counts were consistently within the normal range. The truth pops it's head out the window and says HELLO.
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Throughout the period of the Manhattan Engineer District investigation, Japanese doctors and patients were repeatedly requested to bring to them any patients who they thought might be examples of persons harmed from persistent radioactivity. No such subjects were found. The atom bomb is a hoax folks.
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It was concluded therefore as a result of these findings and lack of findings, that although a measurable quantity of induced radioactivity was found, it had not been sufficient to cause any harm to persons living in the two cities after the bombings. Suckers, LOL.
Abdication of personal responsibilty is the greatest evil. Take responsibility for your ALL your acts.
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/10/05 03:02 PM

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I am only going to go over the first point that you replied to; Does this mean you have understood the points you will not be responding to?
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You somehow made the connection between your wife giving birth to a child with some kind of artery? problem with her work at a TNT? factory. You have not given any proof of a link between the two facts. Go back and read it again. That is not what I said about my wife, cardiac son or TNT. You must be desperate to scramble my opinions like that.
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Onward, you then stated the fact that the production of TNT is bad for the enviornment. Fine, but that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the results of the damage done by a fuel-bomb exploding. I also said that Hiroshima was firebombed and it would not be surprising to find
cancers there because of that. You want to blame imaginary bombs for common illness go ahead. Just try to not fall out of focus like that when quoting me.It's a very jewish trait.
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(Which by the way, you have shown absolutely no statistics or url's on the after-effects of a fuel bombing. I am just supposed to take your word for it?) You never answered if you thought fuel had any cancer pathogens. Is that why you neglect to respond to certain points, so they don't interfere with your spamming?
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The discussion is whether a fuel-bomb exploding can convincingly explain the sort of damages sustained at Hiroshima and the fatal illnesses that befell the people who were exposed to it. I should not even need to bring up the fact that fuel-air bombs weren't even developed until the 1960's. Is this another of your "BLIND FAITH "moments? LOL. What do you think those 800 b29s were dropping on Tokyo on August 15, 1945, peace fliers?
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You seem to confuse or switch between the effects of direct radiation from the blast with residual radiation, at will. It is the jews that repackaged x-rays to make more money with them under different aliases. The confusion here is the octopus ink you are introducing by falling out of focus in this discussion.
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Either you don't understand the difference, or you are being disingenuous. You are wrong.
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I don't believe the first, as you seem quite intelligent. I didn't bring up cancer at all, I talked of the effects of being exposed to the gamma rays from the blast, radiation poisoning. You don't see the contradiction in this statement?
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I didn't bring up anything about the hazards of producing the materials for the atomic bomb. It is you that needs to stay focused. And so it seems that you are not correct. You have drifted so badly I can't figure out what your original point was. Whatever it was you seem to have given up on it a while back. What was your point?
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When you bring forward some convincing proof or statistics on fuel bomb injuries and how they can possibly explain the 8 weeks of death that the exposed victims of Hiroshima faced, I will continue this discussion, not before. I am not going to argue your heresay arguments anymore, because they are silly. That is the evidence you prefer over a full set of seismological records of Hiroshima to prove your point and you call me silly, LOL.
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brandon7
(truth-seeker) 01/10/05 03:41 PM
The fact that the first recorded cell phone conversation took place between German engineers in 1946 should pretty much open up the possibility of advanced cinematography in 1945. The real problem you are dealing with is the abundance of OWK types who live with mommy and the only beaver they have ever seen is on TV. The way to explain the film of atomic blasts in 1945 is the way you explain the blast in CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER>hollywood. illusions, magic, hollywood...matrix...fake...not real...hoax
panem et circenses
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/10/05 04:37 PM
[ To: brandon7 | Post 293260378, reply to 293260276 ] (Score: 2)
What are your thoughts about seismological records? Do you think that these sciences did not benefit from the blessings of technological advancement? Do you think that the full sets of seismological records constitute the DNA test of truth for the existance of so-called atomic bombs? Any thoughts? Abdication of personal responsibilty is the greatest evil. Take responsibility for your ALL your acts.
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thomaspain
(insurgent) 01/10/05 04:56 PM
Every year some people keep recalling Horoshima and Nagasaki. Each year I keep recalling "The Bataan Death March" and "The Rape Of Nanking".
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/10/05 06:05 PM
[ To: thomaspain | Post 293260618, reply to 293260424 ] (Score: 2)
Japanese jews can be just as vicious as their counterparts elsewhere in the world. The talmudic plague transcends color or creed.
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Magician
I couldn't ever imagine my self agreeing with Ninpo on anything, but I agree that you are FOS when it comes to the A-bomb. When I was in the Navy, one of my assignments (which was classified) required me to look up all of the medical data on the medical problems of the survirors, short and long term, of the A-bomb blasts in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. All I can say is that you are so divorced from reality and FOS that someone should consider commiting you to a mental hospital.
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| [ To: cactus | Post 293297656, reply to 293297522 ] (Score: 2)
cactus
(insurgent) 01/22/05 09:51 AM
I would like to try and explain the situation as far as fake reactors are concerned and I will ask my reader to come with me inside a so-called nuclear reactor. I will use the simplest terms I can find to explain this and I hope the point is not lost in the simplification process. As you sit in the control room your are faced with wall to wall instruments. These instruments are monitoring the conditions inside the critical areas of the reactor. What are these critical areas? First and foremost we have the hot core that is the instrument by which the steam hydraulics are produced to turn the massive blade of a turbine that drives the huge alternators connected to the outside line. The way I see it the hot core is simulated by computer software and the program is constructed to move along with the simulation. When the instruments report that conditions are good for power transmission, the lines are juiced and out goes the current. The problem is that this output of energy is really an input of energy. The electricity from the outside lines comes in and energizes the dynamo (becomes a motor when given outside electricity to the brushes) that turns the turbine to complete the illusion. Could be that the power generation measuring instruments are showing the power consumption in reverse. My theory rests on the certainty that consumption of electricity dropped drastically over the past several decades and the skunks found themselves with embarassingly huge amounts of surplus energy they had to bleed off. If the so-called nuclear reactor is drawing what it reports to be producing then that would conveniently launder off the excess at a handsome profit. Who can come to this forum and certify that the energy is pouring OUT from the reactor instead of POURING INTO the fake reactor. As an additional note some readers may not know that a motor becomes a dynamo when used in reverse. The brushes that pick up the energy produced by the force turning the shaft in the dynamo configuration become the brushes that deliver the energy to make the dynamo (now in motor configuration) spin. It's pretty simple and explains that nuclear reactor hoaxing is not that difficult if you have the international connections and tribal cohesion to pull it off.
"I can see it in your eyes, you've been buying all the lies, how do I get through, get through to you." Pokerface- I Can See It In Your Eyes
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/22/05 01:02 PM

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Please bring some stats or evidences forward
Let's take a moment and look at some testimonials about the flash from the so-called atom bomb in Hiroshima on that summer morning in August, 1945. Note the contradictions. Testimony of Hiroshi Sawachika
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MR. SAWACHIKA: I was in my office. I had just entered the room and said "Good morning." to colleagues and I was about to approach my desk when outside it suddenly turned bright red.
Testimony of Yosaku Mikami

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The car passed through Miyuki Bashi and was approaching the train office, when I saw the blue flash from the window.
Testimony of Isao Kita

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MR. KITA: Well, at that time, I happened to be receiving the transmission over the wireless. I was in the receiving room and I was facing northward. I noticed the flashing light. It was not really a big flash.
Testimony of Akira Onogi

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I saw blue flash of light just like a spark made by a train or some short circuit.
Testimony of Hiroko Fukada

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INTERVIEWER: What was the color of the light? ANSWER: I remember it was yellow.
Testimony of Akihiro Takahashi

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That was the moment when the blast came. And then the tremendous noise came and we were left in the dark
Testimony of Kinue Tomoyasu

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As I opened the window, there came the flash. it was so bright, a ten or hundred or thousand times brighter than a camera flash bulb. The flash was piercing my eyes and my mind went blank.
Testimony of Yoshitaka Kawamoto

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All I can remember was a pale lightening flash for two or three seconds.
Testimony of Toshiko Saeki

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Then, suddenly there came a flash of light. I can't describe what it was like
Testimony of Akiko Takakura

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INTERVIEWER: Can you explain the flash? TAKAKURA: Well, it was like a white magnesium flash.
Testimony of Mamoru Yukihiro

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INTERVIEWER: Uh....how was it when you saw the ray? YUKIHIRO: Immediately after I saw the strange yellow ray,
Testimony of Taeko Teramae

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I saw something shining in the clear blue sky. I wondered what it was, so I stared at it. As the light grew bigger, the shining thing got bigger as well. And at the moment when I spoke to my friend,there was a flash, far brighter than one used for a camera. It exploded right in front of my eyes.
Testimony of Takehiko Sakai

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I turned back when there was an intense flash like the magnesium light used for photographing.
Testimony of Yoshito Matsushige

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There was a flash from the indoor wires as if lightening had struck. I didn't hear any sound, how shall I say, the world around me turned bright white
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Dankness
(nonconformist) 01/22/05 01:45 PM
This is concrete evidence? Not only have the jews fooled us all this time about atomic weapons but they have also fooled us into thinking concrete evidence is something substantionaly more then quotes from the web. Silly us for believing the jew definition of evidence. Now if only I can liberate the justice system from the deep rooted deciet regarding what is/is not concrete evidence. I could start a drug cartel and assassination squad as long as I can justify it with a few good google search's.
We have Red Pill People and Blue Pill People...which one are you?
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/22/05 02:51 PM
[ To: Dankness | Post 293298460, reply to 293298229 ] (Score: 2)
Do you have a relevant question about the quoted testimonials?
"I can see it in your eyes, you've been buying all the lies, how do I get through, get
through to you." Pokerface- I Can See It In Your Eyes

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Uvas
(abecedarian) 01/22/05 05:16 PM
I have a relevent question about the testimonials...aside from the fact that they where all from very different perspectives, from a few hundred meters to several kilometers away from the explosion. They ALL describe a single flash, followed by the heat blast wave that is peculiar to atomic explosions. How can this be possible during a fire-bombing raid which you are promoting here? Where are the testimonials to the wave after wave of bombers dropping thousands of tons of incendiary bombs as witnessed at other fire-bombed cities? Perhaps you should read all the testimonials from the page, where you cut and pasted small bits of the survivor's testimonials, and explain how those witnesses were actually describing a fire-bombing, not a single brilliant explosion.... Oh, and thank you for taking us inside the nuclear reactor in your mind. It was very enlightening. Although, of course, there is not one iota of fact or proof to your interesting imagery.
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basil
(radical) 01/22/05 06:40 PM

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"As an additional note some readers may not know that a motor becomes a dynamo when used in reverse. The brushes that pick up the energy produced by the force turning the shaft in the dynamo configuration become the brushes that deliver the energy to make the dynamo (now in motor configuration) spin. It's pretty simple and explains that nuclear reactor hoaxing is not that difficult if you have the international connections and tribal cohesion to pull it off."
Well, I had my doubts about your knowledge of physics, now I'm convinced. You didn't even complete high school did you cactus? This quote proves it. It might work for the simplest kind of dynamo/motor, but try it with a real one. In your car there is both a motor and dynamo, try swapping the connections as you have suggested, it won't last too long! I refer you to the work of one Walter Seimens, and suggest you study a bit more about the subject before making any more of a fool of yourself. Meanwhile I will go on enjoying the benefits of the low(ish) cost night time electricity provided by the 3 nuclear reactors within 100km of where I sit. You have yet to show me how to hoax an atomic detonation to 1000s of watching scientists, physicists or photographers and millions of workers involved in the production and testing of nuclear fission devices. The apparent lack of seismic details is just not enough to convince me or anyone else.
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/23/05 03:58 AM

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They ALL describe a single flash, followed by the heat blast wave that is peculiar to atomic explosions. How can this be possible during a fire-bombing raid which you are promoting here? Heat blast waves are particular to napalm strikes. THat's why they call it an explosion. Read the different colors of flash described by the so-called witnesses and you can see
it is more a description of napalm than one of a new exotic weapon that so-called tuns the ground to glass. You are not paying attention. I noticed you failed to bring testimonials of people that survived other napalm strikes elsewhere in the world to compare them with these I posted here. Where is the odor in these testimonials? Of all the testimonials provided only one speaks of a body that smelled like cooked squid. I imagine the place reeked of gasoline fumes and exhausted fuel byproducts. Also lots of other smells. Why do you suppose the odors were edited out of the testimonials?
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How can this be possible during a fire-bombing raid which you are promoting here? How can it be anything else. Where are the vomiting people, the falling teeth, the falling hair, the thousands of permanently blind, etc. You are not hard to please as far as evidence is concerned. You sound like you are drawing a salary off one of these hoaxes, LOL. Are you afraid your friends and family will mock you for playing the bigshot because you were duped too? You should not worry about things like that, instead worry about the color you will order your new car from the money you saved NOT having to pay for a fake MISSILE DEFENSE SHIELD.
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Where are the testimonials to the wave after wave of bombers dropping thousands of tons of incendiary bombs as witnessed at other fire-bombed cities? If you had been paying attention you would recall that I said it was possibly hundreds of b-29s (like Tokyo August 15, 1945-800 B29s) dropping the ordinance simultaneously. Read the section about Col. Tibbits and his private little military detachment in the desert where nobody could intrude or discover the lies. You have not read this thread attentively, go back and read it please.
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/23/05 04:02 AM
[ To: basil | Post 293299827, reply to 293298957 ] (Score: 2)
You did not ask one single relevant question. In fact there is not a single question mark in your post and it is not a spelling mistake. This is not Dear Abbey's column in the newspaper, this is a discussion thread, if you want it to work as planned you must formulate a relevant question and this question must reflect the fact that you have read at least a small portion of the thread. How does it work for the British (hebrew for "Covenant Man") do you spam each other all day in your forums, LOL?
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/23/05 04:06 AM

Quote:
I have a relevent question about the testimonials...aside from the fact that they where all from very different perspectives, from a few hundred meters to several kilometers away from the explosion. Tell that to the moderator of LF Cubicle_Guy that gave these testimonials to me in another thread to support his belief that it was an atom bomb. I think these testimonials are doctored (not by CG of course) and only convey what the hoaxsters needed to stay on track.
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Uvas
(abecedarian) 01/23/05 04:24 AM
Heat blasts are known in napalm strikes, but there is no bright flash seconds before the heat. The light energy from a nuclear explosion out-races the heat wave. This is because of the great amount of light energy produced in a nuclear explosion. The initial flash gives the flashburns which were peculiar to Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. The other symptoms you said were absent is a deception on your part. The symptoms of bleeding gums, hair loss and so on took several days to show up and most radiation poisoned people died within 7-10 days after the bombing. Napalm explosions have very small amounts of light energy released. So the light wave is very weak and not even noticed as a distructive force. The smells of squid were the funeral pyres that rescue workers were burning, according to one account. Your claim of edited testimonials is laughable. When ever a source of information is suddenly found to not back your theory, it was edited by the mysterious "Jewish conspiricy".
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Uvas
(abecedarian) 01/23/05 04:27 AM
Here is one discription of the Dresden bombing: Dresden's citizens barely had time to reach their shelters. The first bomb fell at 10:09 p.m. The attack lasted 24 minutes, leaving the inner city a raging sea of fire. "Precision saturation bombing" had created the desired firestorm. A firestorm is caused when hundreds of smaller fires join in one vast conflagration. Huge masses of air are sucked in to feed the inferno, causing an artificial tornado. Those persons unlucky enough to be caught in the rush of wind are hurled down entire streets into the flames. Those who seek refuge underground often suffocate as oxygen is pulled from the air to feed the blaze, or they perish in a blast of white heat--heat intense enough to melt human flesh. One eyewitness who survived told of seeing "young women carrying babies running up and down the streets, their dresses and hair on fire, screaming until they fell down, or the collapsing buildings fell on top of them." There was a three-hour pause between the first and second raids. The lull had been calculated to lure civilians from their shelters into the open again. To escape the flames, tens of thousands of civilians had crowded into the Grosser Garten, a magnificent park nearly one and a half miles square. The second raid came at 1:22 a.m. with no warning. Twice as many bombers returned with a massive load of incendiary bombs. The second wave was designed to spread the raging firestorm into the Grosser Garten. It was a complete "success." Within a few minutes a sheet of flame ripped across the grass, uprooting trees and littering the branches of others with everything from bicycles to human limbs. For days afterward, they remained bizarrely strewn about as grim reminders of Allied sadism. At the start of the second air assault, many were still huddled in tunnels and cellars, waiting for the fires of the first attack to die down. At 1:30 a.m. an ominous rumble reached the ears of the commander of a Labor Service convoy sent into the city on a
rescue mission. He described it this way: "The detonations shook the cellar walls. The sound of the explosions mingled with a new, stranger sound which seemed to come closer and closer, the sound of a thundering waterfall; it was the sound of the mighty tornado howling in the inner city." Raids lasting half hour, explosions heard for that duration. Air raid sirens warning of incoming fleet. Firestorm built up, and lasting for hours. No mention of a single detonation, no mention of a brilliant flash of light.
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mohel6
(agent provocateur) 01/23/05 04:28 AM
Nice one!
Anyone who's mobile, moving in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. - IDF
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mohel6
[ To: Uvas | Post 293299879, reply to 293299865 ] (Score: -1)
Jews must be exterminated as a people to partially atone for Dresden. And they will be.
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Uvas
(tyro) 01/23/05 04:48 AM
Here is one of the Tokyo raid: "Like many other survivors, Mr. Hoshino has little time for historical debate. He focuses on still vivid recollections of his terror at age 14, hearing the shrill air-raid sirens, then, minutes later, seeing a horrible red glow light the sky. His father was dead and his older brother away at war. Mr. Hoshino tried to lead his mother and sisters to safety, first to a shelter he had dug himself in their yard, and then, as his neighborhood began to go up in flames, through teeming streets. "My family survived because we ran and ran, until my mother couldn't run anymore," he said. "The place we stopped to rest was an open lot near the river, and somehow the fire never reached us there." The next day, when his eyes had recovered enough from the heat and smoke to allow him to see, Mr. Hoshino's strongest memory is of the Sumida River thick with bodies. Ikuyo Misu, 77, a member of Mr. Hoshino's recently founded neighborhood bereavement association, began to cry as she recalled how she had fled the spreading blaze, but was separated from her younger brother, whom she never saw again." I noticed that in the firebombed cities, the witnesses described the sky turning red from the growing fires in the city. They say it happened minutes after the raid. Then a race to get away from the spreading fires. Again , no brilliant flash, no single explosion.
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mohel6
[ To: Uvas | Post 293299885, reply to 293299884 ] (Score: -1)
Jews did Japan.
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/23/05 04:56 AM

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Heat blasts are known in napalm strikes, but there is no bright flash seconds before the heat. Light travels faster than the shockwave in napalm strikes too Einstein. You going to deny the parts of physics THAT WORK? So much of it is crap, leave them what little they have left that works in real life, LOL.
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The light energy from a nuclear explosion out-races the heat wave Actually, if the atom bomb explosion were real it would be the x-rays racing out ahead of the visible light and raosting all in it's path. That is why they said there would be vomiting, hair loss etc, because that is what cancer therapy using x-rays causes. They said that those going to research the question of radiation in Hiroshima were well prepared because the medical conditions of the so-called radiation sickness were THE SAME AS X-RAY SICKNESS. This is not to say that anyone in Hiroshima was suffering radiation sickness, just to say that the skunks knew they could use x-rays to make people sick and decided to say this was what the fake bomb did too. The medical reports, if any exist, would have been doctored along the lines of the efrects of x-rays. The hoaxsters always acknowledged that their device would produce x-rays.
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The initial flash gives the flashburns which were peculiar to Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings In the context of the explanation I provided in the previous paragraph, the initial flash, if it were atomic and not a hoax, would have made everybody terribly ill. 1850 feet of air is not a good insulation against x-rays. All the electrical instruments in the B-29s would have failed from the EMP (electro-magnetic pulse) and there would have been widespread reports of trashed electrical equipment on the ground. Seismologists monitoring the volcanic activity in Japan would have risen out of their seats in excitement at the jumping of the seismic needles on the paper recorder and you would still be seeing the anscestors of these people on tv every so often talking about grandpa seismologist and his incredible day in the summer of 1945. No such situation exists in siemic folklore. Where is all the excitement of these geophysicist skunks?
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The other symptoms you said were absent is a deception on your part. The symptoms of bleeding gums, hair loss and so on took several days to show up and most radiation poisoned people died within 7-10 days after the bombing No deception. The doses of x-rays these people should have endured would have made them ill the very instant. Have you ever seen x-ray burns on the tongues of dental patients submitted to excessive x-ray radiation, have you seen what happens to a cancer patient after his x-ray therapy? If atom bombs really existed they would have made people instantly ill like the hollywood skunks portrayed it in their films (aka hoax maintenance).
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Napalm explosions have very small amounts of light energy released. So the light wave is very weak and not even noticed as a distructive force.
Weak or strong, light travels at the same speed, try again.

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The smells of squid were the funeral pyres that rescue workers were burning, according to one account. Your claim of edited testimonials is laughable. When ever a source of information is suddenly found to not back your theory, it was edited by the mysterious "Jewish conspiricy". What about the so-called toxic contaminated bodies. If you had been reading the thread you would have followed Steve's link and read the accounts of those clearing the debris and how they failed to get sick or contract the slightest malaise. There should have been bad smells of death everywhere. Ask someone coming back from the tsunami relief effort and ask them what is most vivid in their memory. They will invariably say it was the smell. Steve's testimonials also fall short on smells. Like someone wanted those gas fumes out of mind. [
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Uvas
(tyro) 01/23/05 05:00 AM
Another witness to a tokyo raid :Robert Guillain was a French reporter assigned to Japan in 1938. He stayed on after war broke in Europe and was trapped in the country after Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. He returned to France in 1946 and published a book recounting his experiences. He was in Tokyo on the night of March 9, 1945 when the wet winter weather made a surprise change to mild temperatures and gusty winds. We join his story as the sound of air-raid sirens pierce the night and the first B-29s make their appearance: "They set to work at once sowing the sky with fire. Bursts of light flashed everywhere in the darkness like Christmas trees lifting their decorations of flame high into the night, then fell back to earth in whistling bouquets of jagged flame. Barely a quarter of an hour after the raid started, the fire, whipped by the wind, began to scythe its way through the density of that wooden city.
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Uvas
(tyro) 01/23/05 05:02 AM
"The doses of x-rays these people should have endured would have made them ill the very instant." Not really, it made them all rather dead.
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Uvas
(tyro) 01/23/05 05:06 AM
"Napalm explosions have very small amounts of light energy released. So the light wave is very weak and not even noticed as a distructive force. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Weak or strong, light travels at the same speed, try again. "
Yes, then same speed, but not the same destructive force.
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mohel6
Weird.
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Uvas
(tyro) 01/23/05 05:11 AM
"What about the so-called toxic contaminated bodies. If you had been reading the thread you would have followed Steve's link and read the accounts of those clearing the debris and how they failed to get sick or contract the slightest malaise. There should have been bad smells of death everywhere. Ask someone coming back from the tsunami relief effort and ask them what is most vivid in their memory. They will invariably say it was the smell. Steve's testimonials also fall short on smells. Like someone wanted those gas fumes out of mind." This is again disingeneous on your part. The testimonials were the survivors recollections of the initial blast, not the aftermath. And to recap: Horoshima and Nagasaki, huge flash of light, one explosion. Other firebombed cities, rolling waves of bombs starting multiple fires that joined together and turned the sky red from the flames, huge firestorms with tornado strength winds.
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/23/05 05:12 AM
Here are my observations about Mr. Honshino's testimonial. People in Hiroshima also say they saw a red flash. The witness to this Tokyo firestorm speaks of fire rushing in as the streets were teeming and this would be typical in both so-called atomic and napalm raids. Not a single ODOR in the excerpt. I am not sure what point you were trying to make but I appreciate having had the opportunity to read this testimonial. It shows once more that something is very wrong with that WHOLE WW2 JAPAN STORY. Still I get the feeling the whole city of Hiroshima was evacuated befor the show was mounted and these testimonials are mostly bogus. None of these witnesses have addresses or ages of coordinates or surviving family. You never see them on tv, never hear them on the radio (with interpretors) I know I have seen at least one such televised interview with a survovor but I don't have the details of her testimonial. It was several decades ago. How would you like to see the historical seismograms for Tokyo and discovered the records indicate a small bombing of Tokyo instead of 800 bombers? That the skunks dropped thousands of bombs into the ocean so they could fleece their slaves for more bombs. Imagine these seismograms show nothing in Hiroshima that day or Nagasaki. How would you feel them? Having a chance to sit there and sift through these records would be incredible. I would double check and revise every damn instance of illusion and fleecing with sets like that. Do you know how we could get these records (and please don't tell me they don't exist. eartquakes were monitored closely all over the world at that time and a long time before that?
"I can see it in your eyes, you've been buying all the lies, how do I get through, get
through to you." Pokerface- I Can See It In Your Eyes

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cactus
(insurgent) 01/23/05 05:19 AM

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"They set to work at once sowing the sky with fire. Bursts of light flashed everywhere in the darkness like Christmas trees lifting their decorations of flame high into the night, then fell back to earth in whistling bouquets of jagged flame. I said Hiroshima was a SYNCHRONIZED ATTACK. The Tokyo raid was not designed to pass off as a so-called atom bomb attack. I was talking about the ODORS in these testimonials and now you are mixing it all up to make it look like we are comparing the blasts themselves. Where is the smell? Should have been reeking the stuff everywhere.
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Barely a quarter of an hour after the raid started, the fire, whipped by the wind, began to scythe its way through the density of that wooden city. Where are the smells? Are you paying attention?
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Uvas
(tyro) 01/23/05 05:24 AM
"In the context of the explanation I provided in the previous paragraph, the initial flash, if it were atomic and not a hoax, would have made everybody terribly ill. 1850 feet of air is not a good insulation against x-rays. All the electrical instruments in the B-29s would have failed from the EMP (electro-magnetic pulse) and there would have been widespread reports of trashed electrical equipment on the ground. Seismologists monitoring the volcanic activity in Japan would have risen out of their seats in excitement at the jumping of the seismic needles on the paper recorder and you would still be seeing the anscestors of these people on tv every so often talking about grandpa seismologist and his incredible day in the summer of 1945. No such situation exists in siemic folklore. Where is all the excitement of these geophysicist skunks?" First, everything that was in range of the emp was destroyed anyway. And perhaps the airforce had the forsight to harden the equipment on the planes against the emp. As to the seismograph, perhaps there wasn't a measurable event. Water pipes a few inches underground were not even cracked near ground zero. Although I can't seem to find any evidence of any seismic event on the internet, Peculiar.
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cactus
(insurgent) 01/23/05 05:24 AM

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"The doses of x-rays these people should have endured would have made them ill the very instant." Not really, it made them all rather dead. Where are the people that died from x-ray exposure in Hiroshima that day. Can you show me something that would prove Hiroshima was not evacuated that day? We have lots of testimonials without address or relatives or sign of life but little else. The testimonials are contradictory also. That is why I keep coming back to those full historical seismic records for that period. If anyone was in the city the mouvements of the traffic and people would show on a seismogram. Do you know how we can get these records, does anyone out there know a seismologist in the family that could set this issue straight once and for all?
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| [ To: Uvas | Post 293352606, reply to 293352527 ] (Score: 1)
cactus
(insurgent) 02/06/05 09:53 PM
Since you are on a closed loop of denial I will conclude that I am wasting my time arguing these points with you.
"Is anybody out there, anybody there? Does anybody wonder, anybody care?" Def Leppard-"Foolin"
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cactus
(insurgent) 02/06/05 09:56 PM

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I found an interesting site for you to peruse. :) U. S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command (SMDC) Monitoring Research Program web site . Sounds interesting. I will check it out and comment later. Thanks for this link.
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Feel free to explain all the doctered jewish conspiricy disinformation in this site. :P lol I fail to see what you find amusing in that. I have not seen the information there yet.
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cactus
(insurgent) 02/06/05 11:07 PM

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U. S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command (SMDC) Monitoring Research Program web site . Ok, I have taken a look at your link and here are my comments. First and foremost is the disclaimer at this site. It reads the following;
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Views and conclusions contained in this website are those of the authors and should not be interpreted as representing the official policies, either express or implied, of the U.S> Army Space and Missile Defense Command of the U.S. government In other words we have to guess who runs that site. I downloaded the 6.54 Mb PDF file (the size was a dead giveaway that the records were incomplete) and found the information suspect at first glance. Japan is not represented nor is Teller's "Mike" shot or the Russian 50 Mega Tom blast at Novaya Zemlya. They have shown waveforms for what appears to be a blast or series of blasts at Novaya Zemlya but nothing about the tsar bomba. The waveforms are lacking intensity and could just as well be dynamite or TNT if they are not outright fakes. Did you look at this stuff before hoisting it on us like that Uvas? The menu on the website's first page does not give Japan as an option although it appears one can enter the cartesian coordinates instead of menu choice. Recap: The records you provided are not sanctioned by those that managed these so-called blasts. The waveforms are grossly incomplete and give no reference point to differentiate them from a conventional explosive if they are authentic at all. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not represented nor is the Teller's Mike shot or the Russian tsar bomba 50 Mega Ton so-called atomic bomb. The site says it holds over 120,000 digital seismic waveforms yet they appear to be missing or unavailable to the unauthorized viewer. Looks more like a website tailor-made for the occasion by the hoaxsters. Like I said before, you are not hard to please as far as evidence is concerned. Thus far you have done nothing to prove the existance of atomic bombs. To the contrary you have contributed to augment my skepticism and reinforce my belief that the hoaxsters are scared and desperate to hide the truth. Full sets of seismic data ARE NOT INCOMPLETE SETS, do you understand cowboy? Stop wasting my time with these crap made-to-measure insults to intelligence and academic scrutiny. "Is anybody out there, anybody there? Does anybody wonder, anybody care?" Def Leppard-"Foolin"
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demidog
Stop wasting my time
Nobody can waste your time. You are a person with whom it is futile to supply reason.
"We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September 11." G.W.Bush 9/18/2003
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1) Quote:
[ To: demidog | Post 293352673, reply to 293352667 ] (Score:
Nobody can waste your time. You are a person with whom it is futile to supply reason. Do you have a relevant question or will you just be spamming through? Why don't you enlighten us with your infinite wisdom Kemosabi?
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Do you have a relevant question If I did, you would be the last person I would trust an honest answer. I admit, my outburst is based upon past experience. You telling somebody not to waste your time is on par with Paris Hilton telling the casting agent that she won't accept anything other than an Oscar-worthy script for her next project. The last time I and others abused you of your mistatements, you simply refused to accept the plaintly verifiable facts. "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September 11." G.W.Bush 9/18/2003
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I admit, my outburst is based upon past experience. If it has nothing to do with this thread then go cry elsewhere. I don't care about your insecurities. If I escorted you under the table it's because that's where you belonged. Got that Kemosabi?
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demidog
Tell us all once again how it is impossible for a layperson to obtain a geiger counter. "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September 11." G.W.Bush 9/18/2003
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cactus
(insurgent) 02/06/05 11:52 PM 1)
An x-ray meter by another name. You never proved that I could obtain one. I am a Canadian citizen and we are not permitted to own these without special authorization. In also told you that I tried to obtain the glass tube to build one and was refused access to this material. I still can't get an x-ray meter. How many times do you need to hear it before you are satified? How does this prove the existance of atom bombs and how does this negate the veracity of my stated opinions on the atom bomb hoax? You sound desperate to find me at fault, are you earning your living off the backs of the working masses with these freak-show hoaxes or are you waxing nostalgic about the GOOD OL DAYS of MASS DESTRUCTION, LOL? Note about your signature pal, they did not invade Iraq because Sadaam was involved with 9/11 but because they said he had non-existant atom bombs. That is far more important that any links to 9/11, don't you think so? "Is anybody out there, anybody there? Does anybody wonder, anybody care?" Def Leppard-"Foolin"
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demidog
An x-ray meter by another name. Like I said, you refuse to accept verifiable facts. How many times do you need to hear it before you are satified? Geiger counters generally measure more than X-rays. In fact the lower end devices don't measure x-rays. Be that as it may, I don't believe you're telling the truth. The truth is more like you refuse to buy yourself a readily available geiger counter or any of the parts that are also readily available without license. "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September 11." G.W.Bush 9/18/2003
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cactus
(insurgent) 02/07/05 12:12 AM 1)
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Like I said, you refuse to accept verifiable facts. You are incapable of understanding my explanations because you appear to be technologically impaired. X-rays can be displayed any many one wishes with just a few electronic modifications between the reading electronics and the dashboard display on the meter. I explained this before but you can't seen to grasp the technology involved. Also recall that I asked you what the regular citizen would be doing with instruments that might be useful in the construction of so-called atom bombs but that went WAY OVER YOUR limited capacity to fathom the obvious. You call that a failure to accept logic on my part because you have this habit of indulging in selective assimilation of the information presented to you. It can be cured if you just take the time to breath and pay attention to what you are reading.
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Geiger counters generally measure more than X-rays. In fact the lower end devices
don't measure x-rays. There is no atomic radiation so what else do you think they measure?
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Be that as it may, I don't believe you're telling the truth What difference does that make? You don't pay attention to the opinions that counter your fragile belief systems. I can survive that.
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The truth is more like you refuse to buy yourself a readily available geiger counter or any of the parts that are also readily available without license. The truth is that they should not be available if atomic bombs were real. That is the point you are missing. If it is true, like I said before, that these meters are freely available this does nothing more than confirm that atom bombs are bogus. If atom bombs were real you would be allowed to own them. That is the part you fail to acknowledge. Now, if you have no further questions or if your spamming session is quite done we might get back to this fake atom bomb discussion. Are you cool with that Kemosabi?
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demidog
The truth is that they should not be available if atomic bombs were real. You cannot make an atomic bomb with one. If atomic bombs are real, then it is immoral to prevent the general public from obtaining any device that would allow them to detect radiation. Radiation isn't real. That big ball of light in the sky that appears (coincidentally when it is light outside) is also not real and doesn't emit radiation. "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September 11." G.W.Bush 9/18/2003
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Dankness
(maverick) 02/07/05 12:37 AM
Don't forget to check out these 3 sites if you want waveforms for nuclear explosions. It's not all easy to read idiot proof data so your gonna actually have to know your shit before you simply pass it off as a bullshit Jewish smoke screen. http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/res/pi/Monitoring/Arch/BRV_arch_exp.html http://www.seismo.ethz.ch/bsv/nuclear_explosions.html http://www.pidc.org/web-bin/map_dbreq_ent?dbtype_id=ISD Here is a article that talks about the difference of seismic energy produced from an air blast or a blast underground.
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A nuclear device exploded just a few meters underground, by contrast, couples its energy more efficiently to ground motion and generates a much more intense and damaging seismic shock than would an air burst of the same yield. Figure 2 illustrates the dramatic change in equivalent yield. Exploding a 10-kt nuclear bomb at a depth of 2 m underground, for example, would increase the effective yield by a factor of about 20 and result in underground damage equivalent to that of a 200-kt weapon exploded at the surface..... ....However, figure 2 illustrates that those improvements would result in only modest
gains in the total depth of destruction. Near the explosion, the peak pressure of the shock wave is proportional to the bomb yield and decreases with the inverse cube of the distance from the explosion. Consequently, the destructive effects of an explosion can be expressed as a function of a scaled distance, as is done in figure 2. Most of the benefit of earth penetration is obtained from the first (scaled) meter of burial. http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-56/iss-11/p32.html Check out figure 2 from that page, here is the link. I only have a basic grasp of physics so I'm not going to pass any judgement on these numbers since they look pretty advanced. I don't know how much knowledge of physics you have Cactus but I hope this sheds light on your troubles accepting the fact an air burst simply will not produce the same level of seismic energy as a bomb exploding on ground level. Maybe someone will be kind enough to crunch some numbers and figure out how much energy would could possibly be transfered into a seismic shock from a 10-15kt blast 2000 feet above ground? Common sense is telling me it's no where near the 6.3 magnitude you are claiming it to be. http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-56/iss-11/captions/p32cap2.html The Tsar 50 megaton bomb reportedly exploded 4000 feet above ground, just to clarify that for you, incase you assumed it was exploded at 2000 feet like Hiroshima. There is no way to tell the difference on seismic records between an explosion caused by TNT or a nuclear bomb...but if every nuclear test is actually a giant TNT explosion then that mean massive amounts of TNT would have to be produced back then ON TOP of the normal amounts of TNT produced for normal uses...we are talking about 100's of thousands of extra TONS of TNT produced each year to create the illusion. Now we are talking about another giant scale world-wide conspiracy to put a lid on the millions and millions of extra tons of TNT being pumped out of factories and repeatedly placed in massive piles for "nuclear tests" to maintain the illusion. Damn Jews are amazing huh? Kind of seems odd they would go through so much trouble on a massive world wide scale just to fake atomic weapons for 60 years instead of just spending efforts to make real atomic bombs. The level of conspiracy your suggesting would tie up so many resources for 6 straight decades it is practicly the equivalent of needing to cross the street and traveling all the way around the world on foot in the opposite direction untill you end up 20 feet from where you started.
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cactus
(insurgent) 02/07/05 01:16 AM 1)
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You cannot make an atomic bomb with one. If atom bombs were real you would not be able to build one without such a measuring instrument.
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If atomic bombs are real, then it is immoral to prevent the general public from obtaining any device that would allow them to detect radiation. If atom bombs were real it would be utterly irresponsible to risk public safety so a few hacks can amuse themselves with small rocks. What is so moral about letting people measure the radiation in the environment if such radioactivity really existed outside the fertile minds of the hoaxsters?
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Radiation isn't real. Electromagnetic radiation is real enough. Not the atomic radiation we have been taught to believe is produced by splitting atoms. X-rays in the environment are absorbed in varying degrees depending on the absorbtion characteristics of the materials exposed to the x-rays. The x-ray meter (aka geiger counter) reads this
absorbtion in accordance with the amount of energy absorbed. The so-called background radiation detected by the meter is background x-ray energy.
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That big ball of light in the sky that appears (coincidentally when it is light outside) is also not real and doesn't emit radiation. The nuclear reactions in the sun provide us with the visible rays we recognize as the light-of-day. The heat and the nasty x-rays are produced by the geomagnetic storms within the sun not the fusion itself. The radiation of the sun is the product of the geomagnetic storms within the sun. Do you need for me to explain further DD?
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cactus
(insurgent) 02/07/05 01:43 AM 1)
[ To: Dankness | Post 293352812, reply to 293352763 ] (Score:
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Don't forget to check out these 3 sites if you want waveforms for nuclear explosions. I will, thanks for posting them.
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A nuclear device exploded just a few meters underground, by contrast, couples its energy more efficiently to ground motion and generates a much more intense and damaging seismic shock than would an air burst of the same yield. Sounds reasonable.
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Common sense is telling me it's no where near the 6.3 magnitude you are claiming it to be. Check it out for yourself HERE:
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(Did you know? The energy released by a M6.3 earthquake is equivalent to that released by the 1945 Atom Bomb dropped on Hiroshima!!) Earthquakes are often classified into different groups based on their size (Table 1). Annual average number of earthquakes across the Earth in each of these groups is also shown in the table; it indicates that on an average one Great Earthquake occurs each year. Table 1: Global occurrence of earthquakes Group Magnitude Annual Average Number Great 8 and higher 1 Major 7 - 7.9 18 Strong 6 - 6.9 120 Moderate 5 - 5.9 800 Light 4 - 4.9 6,200 (estimated) Minor 3 - 3.9 49,000 (estimated) Very Minor < 3.0 M2-3: ~1,000/day; M1-2: ~8,000/day Source: http::/neic.usgs.gov/neis/eqlists/eqstats.html Intensity Intensity is a qualitative measure of the actual shaking at a location during an earthquake, and is assigned as Roman Capital Numerals. There are many intensity scales. Two commonly used ones are the Modified Mercalli Intensity (MMI) Scale and the MSK Scale. Both scales are quite similar and range from I (least perceptive) to XII (most severe). The intensity scales are based on three features of shaking - perception by people and animals, performance of buildings, and changes to natural surroundings. Table 2 gives the description of Intensity VIII on MSK Scale. The distribution of intensity at different places during an earthquake is shown graphically using isoseismals, lines joining places with equal seismic intensity (Figure 2). Source: http::/www.nicee.org/nicee/EQReports/Bhuj/isoseismal.html Epicenter Focus Place of Interest Epicentral Distance Fault Rupture Focal Depth Figure 1: Basic terminology Figure 2: Isoseismal Map of the 2001 Bhuj (India) Earthquake (MSK Intensity) IX VIII X VII Page 2IITK-BMTPC Earthquake Tip 3 What are Magnitude and Intensity? page 2 Figure 3: Reducing illumination with distance from an electric bulb Table 2: Description of shaking intensity VIII as per MSK scale Intensity VIII - Destruction of Buildings (a) Fright and panic. Also, persons driving motorcars are disturbed. Here and there
branches of trees break off. Even heavy furniture moves and partly overturns. Hanging lamps are damaged in part. (b) Most buildings of Type C suffer damage of Grade 2, and few of Grade 3. Most buildings of Type B suffer damage of Grade 3, and most buildings of Type A suffer damage of Grade 4. Occasional breaking of pipe seams occurs. Memorials and monuments move and twist. Tombstones overturn. Stonewalls collapse. (c) Small landslips occur in hollows and on banked roads on steep slopes; cracks develop in ground up to widths of several centimeters. Water in lakes becomes turbid. New reservoirs come into existence. Dry wells refill and existing wells become dry. In many cases, changes in flow and level of water are observed. Note: Type A structures - rural constructions; Type B - ordinary masonry constructions; Type C Well-built structures Single, Few - about 5%; Many - about 50%; Most - about 75% Grade 1 Damage - Slight damage; Grade 2 - Moderate damage; Grade 3 - Heavy damage; Grade 4 - Destruction; Grade 5 - Total damage Basic Difference: Magnitude versus Intensity Magnitude of an earthquake is a measure of its size. For instance, one can measure the size of an earthquake by the amount of strain energy released by the fault rupture. This means that the magnitude of the earthquake is a single value for a given earthquake. On the other hand, intensity is an indicator of the severity of shaking generated at a given location. Clearly, the severity of shaking is much higher near the epicenter than farther away. Thus, during the same earthquake of a certain magnitude, different locations experience different levels of intensity. To elaborate this distinction, consider the analogy of an electric bulb (Figure 3). The illumination at a location near a 100-Watt bulb is higher than that farther away from it. While the bulb releases 100 Watts of energy, the intensity of light (or illumination, measured in lumens) at a location depends on the wattage of the bulb and its distance from the bulb. Here, the size of the bulb (100-Watt) is like the magnitude of an earthquake, and the illumination at a location like the intensity of shaking at that location. Magnitude and Intensity in Seismic Design One often asks: Can my building withstand a magnitude 7.0 earthquake? But, the M7.0 earthquake causes different shaking intensities at different locations, and the damage induced in buildings at these locations is different. Thus, indeed it is particular levels of intensity of shaking that buildings and structures are designed to resist, and not so much the magnitude. The peak ground acceleration (PGA), i.e., maximum acceleration experienced by the ground during shaking, is one way of quantifying the severity of the ground shaking. Approximate empirical correlations are available between the MM intensities and the PGA that may be experienced (e.g., Table 3). For instance, during the 2001 Bhuj earthquake, the area enclosed by the isoseismal VIII (Figure 2) may have experienced a PGA of about 0.25-0.30g. However, now strong ground motion records from seismic instruments are relied upon to quantify destructive ground shaking. These are critical for cost-effective earthquake-resistant design. Table 3: PGAs during shaking of different intensities MMI V VI VII VIII IX X PGA (g) 0.03-0.04 0.06-0.07 0.10-0.15 0.25-0.30 0.50-0.55 >0.60 Source: B.A.Bolt, Earthquakes, W.H.Freeman and Co., New York, 1993 Based on data from past earthquakes, scientists Gutenberg and Richter in 1956 provided an approximate correlation between the Local Magnitude M L of an earthquake with the intensity I 0 sustained in the epicentral area as: M L 3 2 I 0 + 1. (For using this equation, the Roman numbers of intensity are replaced with the corresponding Arabic numerals, e.g., intensity IX with 9.0). There are several different relations proposed by other scientists. Resource Material Richter,C.F., (1958), Elementary Seismology, W. H. Freeman and Company Inc, San Francisco, USA. (Indian Reprint in 1969 by Eurasia Publishing House Private Limited, New Delhi) http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/general/handouts/magnitude_intensity. html Authored by: C.V.R.Murty Indian Institute of Technology Kanpur Kanpur, India Sponsored by: Building Materials and Technology Promotion Council, New Delhi, India This release is a property of IIT Kanpur and BMTPC New Delhi. It may be reproduced without changing its contents and with due acknowledgement. Suggestions/comments may be sent to: eqtips@iitk.ac.in To see other IITK-BMTPC Earthquake Tips, visit www.nicee.org June 2002 Bright (100 lumens) Normal (50 lumens) Dull (20 lumens) Near Far 100 Watt Bulb
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The Tsar 50 megaton bomb reportedly exploded 4000 feet above ground, just to clarify that for you, incase you assumed it was exploded at 2000 feet like Hiroshima. 4000 feet of thin air is hardly a good insulator against shock waves. You should know that. 50 Mega tons is NO SMALL FIRECRACKER. I refuse to believe that it was not a needle bender for the global networks of seismic outposts. The shock wave of THAT
blast should have struck the ground like a massive hammer.

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There is no way to tell the difference on seismic records between an explosion caused by TNT or a nuclear bomb...but if every nuclear test is actually a giant TNT explosion then that mean massive amounts of TNT would have to be produced back then ON TOP of the normal amounts of TNT produced for normal uses...we are talking about 100's of thousands of extra TONS of TNT produced each year to create the illusion. Now we are talking about another giant scale world-wide conspiracy to put a lid on the millions and millions of extra tons of TNT being pumped out of factories and repeatedly placed in massive piles for "nuclear tests" to maintain the illusion. The United States Army had all the necessary logistics and funds to produce all the TNT they needed. They polluted the environment pretty bad according to the United States Environmental Protection Agency. Cancer rates skyrocketed around these production facilities where cancer pathogens leaked into the environment. TNT should not have the same seismic signature as a so-called atomic weapon because the detonation characteristics are very different. Wave propagation signatures should be sharper than TNT as well as the shear and roll of the wave. If we are ever shown full sets of seismological records with comparitive models we should see this quite clearly. We have not seen one TNT blast side by side with a so-called atom bomb blast. I don't believe they would be the same at all. Now, as far as world wide conspiracies you can find a good example of this in the NAZIS holocaust fraud. Plenty of organization, money, witnesses, documents, exhibits, all false. You really need to get off first base with the jews Dankness otherwise you will miss the whole show. They are liars and murderers and I don't say that because it pleases me but because it is true.
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Damn Jews are amazing huh? Not THAT AMAZING if they end up getting caught. They always become overconfident and careless and get caught because they assume non-jews to be idiots and incapable of rational thought or organized resistance. A fatal flaw some have said.
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Kind of seems odd they would go through so much trouble on a massive world wide scale just to fake atomic weapons for 60 years instead of just spending efforts to make real atomic bombs. Odder still is going to craploads of trouble to convince near 50 million non-jews to lay their lives in wars that were in fact mass murders disguised as failed diplomacy. And, the jews did not hoax the atom bomb for fun, they did it to create fear and MEGATONS of cash. That is why they did it. When the Arabs discover that the atom bombs are not real you will also discover another important reason they did it, to appear invincible.
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The level of conspiracy your suggesting would tie up so many resources for 6 straight decades it is practicly the equivalent of needing to cross the street and traveling all the way around the world on foot in the opposite direction untill you end up 20 feet from where you started. Again, take the NAZIS holocaust fraud into consideration when estimating the capacity for deception and stealthy cooperation between jews. I will take the time to check the links you provided and get back to you if anything worthwhile is found there.
"Is anybody out there, anybody there? Does anybody wonder, anybody care?" Def
Leppard-"Foolin"
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demidog
The nuclear reactions The sun doesn't have nuclear reactions. Stop kidding yourself. "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September 11." G.W.Bush 9/18/2003
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Hoosier_Patriot
(radical) 02/07/05 09:27 AM 1)
Flag to: demidog, cactus Now you've done it. You've confounded and confused cactus by mimicking his logic. In addition to getting him to describe a functioning system that he says doesn't exist. While chopping down one tree, the entire forest has has snuck up and bit him in the ass.
Want to make $$$$ on your computer? No risk! Simply hit shift 4 repeatedly.
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Hoosier_Patriot
(radical) 02/07/05 09:30 AM

(Score: 1)
[ To: Hoosier_Patriot | Post 293353545, reply to 293353541 ]
Flag to: cactus And no, I don't have a relevant question, so don't bother yourself with asking.
Want to make $$$$ on your computer? No risk! Simply hit shift 4 repeatedly.
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PatrickSMcNally
(free-thinker) 02/07/05 11:28 AM
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1231407,00050001.htm US redesigning atomic weapons: Report Press Trust of India New York, February 7, 2005|11:40 IST American scientists worried that the nation's ageing nuclear arsenal is becoming increasingly fragile have begun designing a new generation of nuclear arms meant to be sturdier and more reliable and to have longer lives, a media report said on Monday. The programme could help shrink the arsenal and the high cost of its maintenance, it said quoting federal officials and private experts. But critics were quoted as saying it could needlessly resuscitate the complex of factories and laboratories that make nuclear weapons and could possibly ignite a new arms race.
So far, the New York Times report said, the quiet effort involves only nine million dollars for warhead designers at the nation's three nuclear weapon laboratories, Los Alamos, Livermore and Sandia.
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Dankness
(maverick) 02/07/05 11:32 AM

(Score: 1) Quote:
And no, I don't have a relevant question, so don't bother yourself with asking. LOL...that just might be the best thing said in the entire thread...I salute you sir! :)
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Dankness
(maverick) 02/07/05 12:40 PM
The site you linked for the 6.3m energy produced by a Hiroshima bomb is not as credible as you want it to be. They just throw that out there without anything else supporting it...if someone brought a link like this to you, you would claim it is some Jew propaganda site.
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(Did you know? The energy released by a M6.3 earthquake is equivalent to that released by the 1945 Atom Bomb dropped on Hiroshima!!) Besides, your dancing around the fact that whatever the level of energy produced by those bombs from 2000 feet up, it can never have the same amount of seismic energy the same bomb would produce if it was sitting on the ground and THAT bomb will never produce the same amount of seismic energy as if the same bomb was placed 6 feet underground. Also, a bomb 2000 feet up explodes, releasing the total amount of energy produced evenly in every direction from the center of the round core or it would be a shape charge and that goes against the principle of how they are detonated. It's not just 2000 feet of thin air, as you call it (air is not thin at sea level by any stretch of the imagination), but it is the fact that only a fraction of the total energy produced even has a chance to make it way through 2000 feet of sea level air and transfer to the ground. More then 65% of the total energy produced by the bomb never hit the ground. Enough energy to produce a 6.3m (or a 5.0m from the BIGGER Nagasaki blast, according to my link, which I feel is much more credible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale) quake with 65% or more of the energy taken off right away then subtract the amount of energy lost from traveling 2000 feet of sea level air and it becomes common sense a 5.0m or 6.3m (depending on who's website you find more credible) level of force produced from an air blast 2000 feet up simply will not exert the same level of energy into seismic waves.
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cactus
(insurgent) 02/07/05 04:19 PM

(Score: 0, Overrated) Quote:
[ To: PatrickSMcNally | Post 293354696, reply to 293353880 ]
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1231407,00050001.htm Thanks for the link.

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American scientists worried that the nation's ageing nuclear arsenal is becoming
increasingly fragile
Another way of saying that the pile of wet cardboard that the atomic bomb hoax is needs a BIG blowdryer, LOL.
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have begun designing a new generation of nuclear arms meant to be sturdier and more reliable and to have longer lives, a media report said on Monday.
Reformatting the hoax.

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The programme could help shrink the arsenal
I think the idea is to shrink the so-called atom bombs so it costs less in TNT to mimick one. Soon these hoaxes will be so small they will blow a firecracker and call it atomic terrorism. They are pathetic liars.
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and the high cost of its maintenance,
Easy for the skunks to say, they dont pay for those craploads of lies. The hard working masses should do a better job of protecting the fruits of their labours if they dont want it to fall into the hands of those chronic hoaxster freaks. I have no pity for idiots that give up their money without protest.
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it said quoting federal officials and private experts.
What should we call these people, Dr. Official and Mr. Expert?
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But critics were quoted as saying it could needlessly resuscitate the complex of factories and laboratories that make nuclear weapons and could possibly ignite a new arms race.
More like igniting a new "fleecing race."

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So far, the New York Times report said, The same New-York Times that named Hitler and Bush Man-of-the-Year once each and Stalin twice.
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the quiet effort involves only nine million dollars for warhead designers at the nation's three nuclear weapon laboratories, Los Alamos, Livermore and Sandia.
Only nine million dollars. Hold on to your wallets folks, the skunks are on another rampage. "Is anybody out there, anybody there? Does anybody wonder, anybody care?" Def Leppard-"Foolin"
Edited by demidog on 07/10/06 10:46 PM.
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Uvas
U. S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command (SMDC) Monitoring Research Program web site . Nuclear Explosion Database The Nuclear Explosion Database (NEDB) consists of source information (date/time, location, yield, seismic magnitude, burial depth, etc.) drawn from a wide variety of official and unofficial sources, and a collection of related digital waveform data, for nuclear explosions conducted from 1945-1998 (map). The database includes 2041 announced or presumed nuclear explosions, for most of which information from multiple sources is given. Over 120,000 digital seismic waveforms have been collected for 743 of these explosions, at over 50 distinct test locations. The document, Selected Seismograms from Nuclear Explosions, shows some examples of the seismic waveform collection. About 200 infrasound recordings from Soviet atmospheric nuclear tests in the early 1960s are also included in the NEDB. Parametric data such as arrival times and amplitudes are also included in the database for many of the explosions. A detailed description of the NEDB is given in Technical Report CMR 00/16. 2041 nuclear detonations recorded here. Hiroshima and Nagasaki not recorded for reasons I explained several times before. 2041 nuclear explosions recorded here. Woot Woot. May I have your attention please! 2041 nuclear explosions recorded here! Don't let the knucklehead cactus confuse you, 2041 nuclear blasts recorded hear by mutiple sources.
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Uvas
Again, perhaps you have some evidence of conventional bombing? Such as multiple craters, hundreds of bombers recorded on Japanese radar, eyewitness records of people seeing more than 3 bombers, people not witnessing a single flash of light, people not witnessing a single blast of heat, people not dying of strange illnesses, people not recieving strange flash burns which were quite different than burns from napalm, military records of the raids, witness accounts of the many thousands of people who would have been part of the raid and part of the planning, some sort of evidence to explain the peculiar flash burn evidence of molecular changes in metals exposed to the blast, explainations of how napalm can burn through dark colored material yet leave light colored material unburned, and so on....you know, actual evidence, not you making up impossible scenarios. Of course you won't respond, because you have nothing!
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Dankness
(maverick) 02/08/05 11:42 AM
Cactus, Your post has distorted this page, could you fix it please? Thanks
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Uvas
(agitator) 01/10/06 07:57 PM
no name: I went to at least 100 conspiricy websites, and not one of them is stupid enough to claim there is no such thing as nuclear weapons or nuclear energy. Perhaps you should see a doctor about your delusions...
"Fire brigade reservoir built into the form of a swimming pool." -sign next to Auschwitz inmate swimming pool "BECAUSE THE JEWS RUN EVERYTHING!" --no name
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no_name
(radical) 01/10/06 11:17 PM

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Those rebars that were left were buried in the ground
Sorry, they were not. See for yourself and ask why these clowns don't have protective gear on.
Recall the epicenter of that so-called atomic blast was only a mere 100 feet above the ground. Those bars should have become ghosts on the suface of a vitrified crater. Those two dorks are chatting away like nothing was wrong and one lived a very long life after that. How can a logical mind deny these inconsistencies that contrast with the models proposed at the time the dolphin lovers were selling the hoax to the planet?
Edited by no_name on 01/11/06 02:25 AM.
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no_name
(radical) 01/10/06 11:42 PM

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I went to at least 100 conspiricy websites, and not one of them is stupid enough to claim there is no such thing as nuclear weapons or nuclear energy.
That is because they cannot factor the jewish question into their respective operating structures without incurring the wrath of the hive. You should be asking rather why this place allows it. These other websites may not have the combined resources of the NSA at their disposal to justify their unusual openness to the discussions critical of the jewish question. Whatever the case I would hesitate to compare LF with anything else on the web before knowing a bit more about who it belongs to. Just saying that nothing runs like a Deere is not indepth knowledge of the powers that are behind this place, the grey emminance guiding it along. I'm not saying its a bad place just that it has survived on the web regardless what is said about the jew. Show me another LF.
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Perhaps you should see a doctor about your delusions...
Picked this up at blog-city a while back.

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Before consulting a doctor, it may be prudent to consider the prestigious Journal of the American Medical Association vol. 284 July 26, 2000. Therein stated with astonishing frankness that american medical doctors are responsible for 250,000 deaths per year. Half of these deaths are attributed to the negative effects of wrongfully prescribed drugs. Interestingly, in the opening statement of the Hypocratic Oath, doctors make a declaration to Apollo. In the Greek vernacular, the word Apollo means destroyer.
I don't have delusions, I have messages. You don't agree you move on or express your dissenting opinion intelligently. You are 1/11000th of this forum Uvas. Your opinions, where relevant and applicable, are valued and your involuntary thread bumping serves a good purpose.
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no_name
(radical) 01/11/06 12:48 AM 1)
[ To: JRadcliffe | Post 294317509, reply to 294314007 ] (Score:
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When the Jews occupied the greatest number of political offices, the Bolsheviks murdered millions of Christians.
The talmud teaches in Libbre David 37 that the goyim (that would be the moderates and goyim) will kill the jews openly if we ever discover what they teach about us. Things like you just posted make me think that the Libbre David 37 is no hoax. I think organized judaism is the only mindset that has hardwired it's guilty conscience right into it's most sacred texts.
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During WWII Hitler colluded with the Nazis. His numerous military blunders, which always seemed to benefit the Zionists, coupled with documentation of their involvement shows this.
I think of D-Day when I want to see the genocide lose it's pretentions of war. I have seen very many cases in the history of warfare when you can see the total disregard for the safety of the soldier. Even now as the Iraq genocide runs it's course you can see the genocide lose it's war facade when you hear that the chest plates were not included in the standard issue of each U.S.soldier, parents had to raise the money to buy them and send them there. I read other stories about substandard materials for the helmets and so on. Mass murder is mass murder. The biggest mistake humanity has made over the bloody centuries of warfare is failing to identify the true enemy of peace, the jew.
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It just so happens that Hitler gave his blessing and aided the Muslims in Albania as they engage in genocide of Christian Serbs.
Completely unnecessary bloodshed and anguish.

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Fast forward to current: Bush, whose family are also known to have been Nazis, is giving his blessing to the current massacre of Serbian Christians by Muslims in Kosovo.
A nation within a nation. The trojan force corrupting the resolve of the enemy from
within the gates and creating the divisions of man that incite two camps of it's enemies at each others throats for the expansion and profit of jews. To the jew, war is the harvest.
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Furthermore, it was the Zionist Jews who wanted our attack on Iraq and who besides the Muslims are dying except young Christian men?
Imagine if these crackpots really had atomic weapons. We would all be toast a long time ago. Moderation is not the strong point of the jew. Incitements and revenge would have mixed very badly with atomic bombs if they had existed.
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The only death the Jews have suffered is supposedly at the hands of Nazis in WWII and so-called terrorist Palestinians. Of course, most every case they make for the incessant whining has be debunked.
I don't see any good reason anybody should believe a damn word from the mouths of these pathological liars. From what relatively small amouts of information I have gathered on the jewish question I can't believe anything they were involved in where we are left to blind faith. Every shread of info has to be checked especially very carefully when the jews are involved. And they are involved in a lot of stuff. How many more lies are waiting for the curious mind to catch up before they are known?
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Now you say that the one place that had the largest Christian population was picked as the bomb site in Japan.
I have recently discovered that the biggest cost of the second world war was the production of over 3600 B-29 bomber aircraft (3 billion bucks) built for the sole purpose of pounding the goyim populations of Japan to a pulp. Nagasaki may have been the biggest Christian center but I doubt it was the only one. Satan's angels rained death and destruction on these people for no good reason other than they were born outside the faith.
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Question: What group of people, who have a history of instigating wars, hates Christians so much? What ONE group has escaped virtually unscathed with their objectives obtained?
Let me guess, do they marry dolphins?
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Uvas
(agitator) 01/11/06 09:04 AM 1)
[ To: no_name | Post 294318289, reply to 294317384 ] (Score:
Where those gentleman are standing in that picture is at the bottom of the shallow crater. The whole tower was vaporized. What is left it the rebar that was in the ground. the ground around the rebar is much softer than metal, so more of the ground was blown away than the metal. And there is radiation there, if you stay there for an hour, its like getting a chest x-ray.
"Fire brigade reservoir built into the form of a swimming pool." -sign next to Auschwitz inmate swimming pool "BECAUSE THE JEWS RUN EVERYTHING!"
--no name
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no_name
(radical) 01/12/06 12:19 AM

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Where those gentleman are standing in that picture is at the bottom of the shallow crater.
They say the same kind of explosion levelled Hiroshima and they say a similar siz package levelled Nagasaki. Look at the devastation as seen in the aerial shots and recall the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were said to be high altitude airbursts. The official story says that the atom bomb over Hiroshima was detonated at somewhere between 1500 and 2000 ft. The place where those two clowns are standing is 100ft (like in 1/15 of the distance) from the top of the tower where a similar bomb is said to have exploded. You can see in the picture posted above that those men are not standing in a crator and they are not standing where an atomic bomb of near 17 kiloton capacity has just blown 100ft above the spot. Proportionally speaking and according to the mathematical models representing the lines of force and temperatures of these so-called atomic blasts, your theory about the re-bars running deep would have to be a tower with a mile deep of reinforced concrete and we all know this is impossible. The tower was not designed to withstand the blast just support the ammo prior to blasting.
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The whole tower was vaporized.
No it is not go back and look at the picture.

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What is left it the rebar that was in the ground
Are you trying to tell me that those two men are standing one mile below ground level? You are a fool Uvas.
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the ground around the rebar is much softer than metal, so more of the ground was blown away than the metal
Poor Uvas.
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And there is radiation there, if you stay there for an hour, its like getting a chest x-ray.
Sure does not sound like the days when the jews were hoisting this fraud on the backs of the hardworking masses. Back then the vegatation would be stunted for 75 years, cities completely devastated and off limits for incredible amounts of time and on and on. Back then it was "SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF THE GOYIM" time. Now the hoaxsters make the bomb sound like a firebombing. So close in fact that they hope to hide the fact that it was a high altitude, muti-aircraft cluster bombing using conventional ammo.
Between 1959 and 1972 4.8 million dolphins drowned in tuna nets.
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no_name
(radical) 01/12/06 12:29 AM

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And there is radiation there, if you stay there for an hour, its like getting a chest x-ray.
So the people in Hiroshima had no reason to be sick then. You say these men can stand at the site in the photo where an so-called bomb of equivilancy to the Hiroshima bomb was detonated 1/15 the distance closer than the Hiroshima airburst and suffer no more than the radiation of a chest X-ray. By comparison and based on your statement the residents of Hiroshima would have fared well with only sunscreen to protect them. Do you understand the contradictions in your statements.
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Uvas
(agitator) 01/12/06 07:56 PM 1)
Youe are an idiot, you can't understand normal thinking. The trinity test left a small crater. Those gentlemen are standing at the bottom of it. Is no name still trying to propogate an impossbile theory based on absolutely no proof?
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no_name
(radical) 01/13/06 07:12 AM
Thanks for bumping the thread. Between 1959 and 1972 4.8 million dolphins drowned in Uvas
(agitator) 01/13/06 07:01 PM 1)
tuna nets.
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Is no name still trying to front a fake theory? I think no name is a jewish front.
"Fire brigade reservoir built into the form of a swimming pool." -sign next to Auschwitz inmate swimming pool
"BECAUSE THE JEWS RUN EVERYTHING!" --no name

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no_name
(radical) 01/13/06 09:12 PM
Thanks for bumping the thread. I told you you would serve the interests of truth weather you like it or not. Between 1959 and 1972 4.8 million dolphins drowned in Uvas
(agitator) 01/14/06 07:38 AM 1)
tuna nets.
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Are you still trying to push an impossible scenerio, no name? "On the night of March 13, 1945, Osaka was bombed. Our camp was barely one city block inland. The first firebombs hit about two blocks inland and continued away from us for four or five miles. The raid lasted much of the night. (Military records reveal that 301 B-29s hit Osaka.)" Firebombing raids last hours. They don't explode in a single flash. "The USAAF, led by Ira Eaker, joined the bombing campaign in Europe from August 1942. Despite repeated RAF requests to join it in low-altitude night bombing, the USAAF adhered to its traditional strategy, i.e., the so-called "precision bombing" in daylight from a high altitude, using the Norden bombsight. However, in reality "precision bombing" was simply an official euphemism as the bombs regularly fell at least one quarter of a mile from the target." "The key development for the bombing of Japan was the B-29, which had an operational range of 1500 miles (2,400 km); almost 90% of the bombs dropped on the home islands of Japan were delivered by this type of bomber (147,000 short tons, 133,000 metric tons). The first raid by B-29s on Japan from China was on June 15, 1944. The planes took off from Chengdu, over 1500 miles away. This first raid was also not particularly damaging to Japan. Only forty-seven of the sixty-eight B29s airborne hit the target area; four aborted with mechanical problems, four crashed, six jettisoned their bombs because of mechanical difficulties, and others bombed secondary targets or targets of opportunity. Only one B29 was lost to enemy aircraft. The first raid from the east was on November 24, 1944 when 88 aircraft bombed Tokyo. The bombs were dropped from around 30,000 feet (10,000 m) and it is estimated that only around 10% of the bombs hit designated targets." "As in Europe, the United States Army Air Force (USAAF) tried daylight precision bombing. However, it proved to be impossible due to the weather around Japan, as bombs dropped from a great height were tossed about by high winds. General LeMay, commander of XXI Bomber Command, instead switched to mass firebombing night attacks, from altitudes ranging from 5,000 to 7,000 feet, on the major conurbations of Tokyo, Nagoya, Osaka, and Kobe. Despite limited early success, LeMay was determined to use such bombing tactics against the vulnerable Japanese cities. Attacks on strategic targets also continued in lower-level daylight raids." High level 'precision' bombing is a euphemism. There was no such thing.
--no name
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no_name
(radical) 01/14/06 07:59 AM
Proof that Hiroshima was not destroyed with an atom bomb THIS POST HAS INCORRECT INFORMATION AND THE CALCULATIONS ARE BASED ON WRONG NUMBERS PLEASE READ BELOW FOR EXPLANATION- SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE. On August 15 1945 the city of Tokyo was firebombed using 800 B-29 high altitude bombers. We know that a B-29 weighs 70,000 lbs empty and 141,000 lbs loaded. Basically this translates to a potential 71000 lbs of firepower on board. In other words each B-29 could deliver near 33 tons of firepower to a target. In the case of Tokyo we are talking about 800 B-29s delivering 26-28,000 tons of explosive power to completely level Tokyo. Tokyo is 2187 sqkm. This is evidence that it takes near 26,000 tons of explosive power to level 2187 sqkm. The so-called atom bomb was reported to have a firepower equal to the equivalent of 20,000 tons. Hiroshima is 8400 sqkm. How can the firepower required to destroy 2187 sqkm destroy Hiroshima at 8400 sqkm. It is a physical impossibility. If the atom bomb only destroyed a quarter of Hiroshima what destroyed the rest? Proof that the atom bomb is a hoax. Between 1959 and 1972 4.8 million dolphins drowned in tuna nets.
Edited by no_name on 01/14/06 05:35 PM.
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Uvas
(agitator) 01/14/06 08:30 AM 1)
So how did those 3200 high level bombers manage to drop their loads simultanously at a single spot, cause one rather gigantic fireball? And wow, I never knew that Hiroshima was four times a big as Tokyo! 8400 square kilometers of damage! LOL, you are indeed an idiot. At Hiroshima, as Postol points out, "the report of the U.S. Strategic Bombing survey noted that the near simultaneous initiation of fires, collapse of buildings, blockage of streets, and loss of water and power over an area of about 4.4 square miles (about 11.3 sq km) made escape from the aftermath of the attack considerably less likely, resulting in the very high casualty rates." 8400 sq km is almost the size of Puerto Rico, or Cyprus. Get real dude! These are your 'proofs'? The mechanics of thousands of little bombs going off is quite different that the combined explosive power of them going off in one explosion.
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no_name
(radical) 01/14/06 08:37 AM
Quote:
So how did those 3200 high level bombers manage to drop their loads simultanously at a single spot, cause one rather gigantic fireball?
You can't destroy 8400 sqkm with 20,000 tons of explosive power. At least 100,000 tons are required. It's physics plain and simple. If the atom bomb destroyed one quarter of Hiroshima what destroyed the rest? Do you know. I will tell you. 3200 B-29s can carry 100,000 tons.
Quote:
And wow, I never knew that Hiroshima was four times a big as Tokyo! 8400 square kilometers of damage! LOL, you are indeed an idiot. At Hiroshima, as Postol points out, "the report of the U.S. Strategic Bombing survey noted that the near simultaneous initiation of fires, collapse of buildings, blockage of streets, and loss of water and power over an area of about 4.4 square miles (about 11.3 sq km) made escape from the aftermath of the attack considerably less likely, resulting in the very high casualty rates."
Tokyo 2187 sqkm, Hiroshima 8400 sqkm Tokyo 25,000 tons Hiroshima 100,000 tons. Do the math. Little Boy was said to be 20,000 ton, how did they destroy the rest of the city?
Quote:
The mechanics of thousands of little bombs going off is quite different that the combined explosive power of them going off in one explosion.
What destroyed the other three quarters of Hiroshima? Between 1959 and 1972 4.8 million dolphins drowned in Uvas
(agitator) 01/14/06 08:42 AM 1) Quote:
tuna nets.
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Tokyo 2187 sqkm, Hiroshima 8400 sqkm Tokyo 25,000 tons Hiroshima 100,000 tons. Do the math. Little Boy was said to be 20,000 ton, how did they destroy the rest of the city?
As of 2003, the city has an estimated population of 1,136,684 and the density of 1532.44 persons per sq km. The total area is 741.75sq km. I would assume that Hiroshima has grown considerably since 1945.
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Uvas
(rebel) 01/14/06 08:52 AM
The fire damage in both cities was tremendous, but was more complete in Hiroshima than in Nagasaki. The effect of the fires was to change profoundly the appearance of the city and to leave the central part bare, except for some reinforced concrete and
steel frames and objects such as safes, chimney stacks, and pieces of twisted sheet metal. The fire damage resulted more from the properties of the cities themselves than from those of the bombs. The conflagration in Hiroshima caused high winds to spring up as air was drawn in toward the center of the burning area, creating a "fire storm". The wind velocity in the city had been less than 5 miles per hour before the bombing, but the fire-wind attained a velocity of 30-40 miles per hour. These great winds restricted the perimeter of the fire but greatly added to the damage of the conflagration within the perimeter and caused the deaths of many persons who might otherwise have escaped. In Nagasaki, very severe damage was caused by fires, but no extensive "fire storm" engulfed the city. In both cities, some of the fires close to X were no doubt started by the ignition of highly combustible material such as paper, straw, and dry cloth, upon the instantaneous radiation of heat from the nuclear explosion. The presence of large amounts of unburnt combustible materials near X, however, indicated that even though the heat of the blast was very intense, its duration was insufficient to raise the temperature of many materials to the kindling point except in cases where conditions were ideal. The majority of the fires were of secondary origin starting from the usual electrical short-circuits, broken gas lines, overturned stoves, open fires, charcoal braziers, lamps, etc., following collapse or serious damage from the direct blast.
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no_name
(agitator) 01/14/06 05:44 PM 1)
As it was pointed out by LF member Uvas and Angel2000 my area calculations for Hiroshima and Nagasaki were wrong. Hiroshima, according to Uvas should have been 741 sqkm anf Tokyo 650 sqkm. The bomb tonnage per plane has been revised thanks to Angel2000 and the new number is 10 tons per plane. Using these new numbers (thanks all) I am left with 1000 B-29s to destroy Hiroshima. Uvas tells me that the destruction was not complete in every city but I was let to believe the cities were laid to waste. I apologise for having refused to listen to Uvas when he tried to point it out the first time and I hope not too many others were inconvenienced by this mistake. Anyways I feel closer to the truth now that I have a clearer picture of the number of planes that would be required to level Hiroshima in the absence of a so-called atom bomb. The number might change slightly to adjust the damage boundery but my estimate is the adjustment will be marginal. Between 1959 and 1972 4.8 million dolphins drowned in no_name
(agitator) 01/15/06 07:08 PM 1)
tuna nets.
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Here are the new numbers in place in the debunk formula: On March 10, 1945 (a Saturday) 100,000 japanese were roasted to death in fireballs of unimaginable proportions. The number of planes reported is 350 (I have seen 800) but I will stay with 350 because I have seen it reported as 350. That is an average of 1 B-29 bomber for every 285 people and that works down to about 4 people living per 10 sqft. Sounds right to me. The damage circumference of Tokyo is said to be 16sqmi which workd out to 25.7 sqkm. This sounds right too. Now there exists a consensus whereby the deathtoll in Hiroshima can be approximated at 100,000 just like Tokyo March 10 1945. The damage circumference is pegged at
17.7 sqkm which is a slightly smaller area than the Tokyo damage yet it is reported a 20,000 ton atomic device was exploded there. Where is the rest of the damage? If 350 B-29s (total 3500 tons) can lay waste to 25.7 sqkm why would 20,000 tons make a smaller footprint? If anyone could point out any discrepancy I might have missed I would appreciate it otherwise this simple little two paragraph debunk is the evidence Hiroshima was bombed using about 350 B-29 and M-69 amiable cluster firebombs. Further evidence the atom bomb is a hoax. The seismograms, although no required anymore would confirm this declaration. The seismograms would confirm the 3500 tons of explosive used to bring parts of the city down. 17.7 sqkm of Hiroshima city to be exact. Between 1959 and 1972 4.8 million dolphins drowned in Ubertarian
(insurgent) 01/15/06 07:12 PM
tuna nets.
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[ To: no_name | Post 294333327, reply to 294333313 ] (Score: 2)
Can you really compare the effect of 3500 tons in separate explosions, spread over a 25 km area, to the effect of one 20 000 ton blast at one point?
Daily life is governed by an economic system in which the production and consumption of insults tend to balance out.
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no_name
(agitator) 01/15/06 10:25 PM

(Score: 1)
[ To: Ubertarian | Post 294333665, reply to 294333327 ]
You never explained to me why a sane person that has just spent 3 billion dollars to buy 3895 B-29 bombers would develop a billion dollar new weapon that can't do more damage than 350 B-29 can? What maniac would send in 20,000 tons of firepower to an area 3500 tons can destroy? You can't dismiss these fatal flaws with arguments that the massive atom bomb was deployed in such a way to reduce it's output so much it ends up looking like the work of 350 B-29s. The atom bomb in the Hiroshima story never existed. Here is the simple formula for you to examine again in it's utter simplicity : On March 10, 1945 (a Saturday) 100,000 japanese were roasted to death in fireballs of unimaginable proportions. The number of planes reported is 350 (I have seen 800) but I will stay with 350 because I have seen it reported as 350. That is an average of 1 B-29 bomber for every 285 people and that works down to about 4 people living per 10 sqft. Sounds right to me. The damage circumference of Tokyo is said to be 16sqmi which workd out to 25.7 sqkm. This sounds right too. Now there exists a consensus whereby the deathtoll in Hiroshima can be approximated at 100,000 just like Tokyo March 10 1945. The damage circumference is pegged at 17.7 sqkm which is a slightly smaller area than the Tokyo damage yet it is reported a 20,000 ton atomic device was exploded there. Where is the rest of the damage? If 350 B-29s (total 3500 tons) can lay waste to 25.7 sqkm why would 20,000 tons make a smaller footprint? You can't deny the truth of that. There was no logical reason not to send 350 B-29s to Hiroshima. The planes were bought and available. It's utter madness to spend billions to do the work 3500 tons of high explosives can do. Between 1959 and 1972 4.8 million dolphins drowned in tuna nets.
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gjenkins
From here
Quote:
From a practical standpoint, however, confirmation of the yield is probably not of central military importance. The radius of blast damage for a given intensity varies only as the cube root of the yield. For example, an explosion of only half the anticipated yield will still cover 80% of the expected blast radius.
There are all kinds of physical properties you overlook in your agenda fueled zeal. The economics and power of the nuclear weapons development also seems to escape you.
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gjenkins
[ To: gjenkins | Post 294333687, reply to 294333675 ] (Score: 2)
Interesting comments on the efficacy of multiple small bombs vs. one big bomb: Nuke Fix - Blast Effects
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no_name
(agitator) 01/16/06 02:26 PM 1)
[ To: gjenkins | Post 294335207, reply to 294333675 ] (Score:
Quote:
There are all kinds of physical properties you overlook in your agenda fueled zeal.
Look at what you are overlooking before throwing stones in glass rooms. Tell me the logic of spending billions to build 3895 B-29s then build a billion dollar weapon to destroy an area 350 B-29s could have destroyed easily. It's ludicrous and has nothing to do with explosive coefficients but rather common sense. Who builds a billion dollar bomb to destroy an area 3500 tons of explosive could have laid to waste using 350 B29s? Let me know. The Hiroshima atom bomb story is debunked. No shades of grey.
Quote:
The economics and power of the nuclear weapons development also seems to escape you
This coming from someone that thinks a billion dollars should be spent to destroy an area smaller than the area 350 b-29s could destroy easily. It's insanity. Get used to the idea, the atom bomb boogeyman is no longer in the closet. Between 1959 and 1972 4.8 million dolphins drowned in no_name
(agitator) 01/16/06 02:32 PM 1) Quote:
tuna nets.
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[ To: gjenkins | Post 294335221, reply to 294333687 ] (Score:
Interesting comments on the efficacy of multiple small bombs vs. one big bomb: Nuke Fix - Blast Effects
Interesting but irrelevant. 350 B-29s destroyed 24.7 sqkm in Tokyo March 10 1945 killing 100,000 people. 350 B-29s could have easily levelled 17.7 sqkm in Hiroshima. In fact that's exactly what happened. 20,000 ton device would have been 6 times oversize. A person does not develop a bllion dollar bomb that could potentially destroy 130 sqkm and blow it up way in the air to reduce it's yield by a factor of six resulting in the same damage 350 B-29s could have performed. The debunk is still functional.
Between 1959 and 1972 4.8 million dolphins drowned in
tuna nets.
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no_name
(agitator) 01/21/06 06:11 PM

Quote:
Once again, you offer no proofs or evidences for your outlandish theories.
You don't even believe me when it is you providing me with the numbers. Do you see how dumb that is?
Quote:
Making your own estimate of the cost of a firebombing is not proof of anything.
Sure it is. It is proof that the bombing of Hiroshima could be done and "was done" using 350 B-29 for less than 1 million dollars. It is proof that Nagasaki could be done and "was done" using 264 or less B-29s for way under 1 million dollars. Do you need a receipt before you believe that the americans were handed a multibillion dollar invoice for those murderous pieces of B-29 work? If you had a job that needed to be done and Joe Blow charged you billions more than the job cost would you still be shilling for Joe's right to screw you? Would you defend his right to do the job using products you don't need or are wasteful? Do you even have an idea what you are defending here?
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Uvas
(rebel) 01/22/06 09:23 AM 1)
It is only proof of how much you think a firebombing might have cost, nothing more.
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no_name
(agitator) 01/22/06 11:22 AM
Suit yourself Uvas. I'm not here to tell you how to think. Others may think otherwise. Between 1959 and 1972 4.8 million dolphins drowned in no_name
(agitator) 01/30/06 12:16 AM 1)
tuna nets.
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Survivor recounts nuclear horror bold emphasis in quote mine

Quote:
Laskey was only 1.4 kilometres from the epicentre of the atomic bomb blast in Hiroshima city Aug. 6, 1945. Now a peace activist, shes scheduled to tell her story July 4 at an exhibition of photographs and drawings organized by Veterans Against Nuclear Arms (VANA) at the Vancouver Public Librarys downtown branch. The horror the bomb caused is painfully apparent in Laskeys recollections of the days following the brutal attack. She remembers being awakened after passing out by a man who warned her to take cover from the "black rain"dark, radioactive precipitation. "But I couldnt move so I passed out again."
Why would this man warn her to stay clear of the so-called radioactive rain when this concept was unknown at the time? The Japanese are said not to have known what hit them. The reason he is warning Ms. Laskey is because the black rain is jellied oil on fire and it sticks to people. The M-69 firebombs spew out ignited black jellied oil. That is what the man was warning her about. Further evidence that Hiroshima was firebombed using M-69 ordinance. No atom bombs. Between 1959 and 1972 4.8 million dolphins drowned in tuna nets.
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no_name
(agitator) 02/01/06 11:48 PM 1)
From THIS weblog: (bold emphasis in quote mine)
Quote:
As for Vannevar Bush, the father of hypertext, it seems he never forgot either napalm or Tokyo. In his biography of Bush, G. Pascal Zachary writes that Merle Tuve, whose team developed the proximity fuze under Bushs direction, believed that Bush suffered from war guilt. Not from the atomic bomb, but from his role in aiding the ghastly firebomb raids against Japan. For years after the war Van Bush would wake up screaming in the night because he burned Tokyo, Tuve later recalled. The proximity fuze didnt bother him badly even the atomic bomb didnt bother him as much as jellied gasoline [napalm].
How could Vannevar Bush NOT know Hiroshima and Nagasaki were firebombed using the M-69 firebombs he helped develop? How could a man so deeply involved in the development of the fuse mechanism of the M-69 not see that Hiroshima and Nagasaki bore the scars of a M-69 firebombing? I think Vannevar Bush was very bothered by the M-69 and not so much about the socalled atom bombs because he knew the atom bomb was a hoax. He could see it in the aerial view comparisons and the seismic records if he bothered to check or had access to them. Just more contradictions and evidence that Hiroshima was firebombed and atom bombs are not true.
Between 1959 and 1972 4.8 million dolphins drowned in no_name

(agitator) 02/02/06 11:29 PM 1)
tuna nets.
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From the excellent animated film Graveyard of the Fireflies:
Description:
Quote:
The time period is World War II. The place is Tokyo during the Allied firebombings of the city. In a train station, a boy dies on the platform. This goes unnoticed by the attendants among the many bodies in the station. The beginning of the movie is actually the end of the story. The boy's ghost appears and apologizes to his dead sister. Through flashbacks, we are told the story of two children made orphans by the war. We follow their struggle to survive in a society that has broken down under the horrors of war...a struggle doomed to fail in the end. This movie focuses on what war does to the children, and is very realistically animated. Directed by Isao Takahata, this movie should be seen at least once.
We find this interesting quote : (bold emphasis mine)

Quote:
Suddenly, it starts to rain. "Black rain. . . from the bombing." The rain douses much of what's left of the flames, except some electrical fires on transformers and such. When the rain stops, Seita, with Setsuko on his back again, climbs out of the canal and sees what's left of the town.
This passage would suggest that the black rain I described earlier as ignited jellied oil was in fact a thermally induced evaporation of the ignited jellied oil that is not on fire but is falling back to earth in a form of condensation drip. So far we have seen two testimonials of black rain, one in Hiroshima and this one in Tokyo. Also we have seen the art of an Hiroshima survivor whereby ignited black jellied oil is dripping from the fingers of a dying man. How much more time before we uncover testimonials of Hiroshima and Nagasaki survivors memories of the firesticks falling into the steets? Grave of the Fireflies
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Uvas
(rebel) 02/04/06 07:12 AM 1)
Yes, all those tens of thousands of little bombs managed to hit exactly one spot in Hiroshima and all detonate at exactly the same time, instead of the several hours of bombing that a firebombing takes.
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knownalien
(rebel) 02/04/06 10:05 AM
cactus, you are either a genius, or very non-genius. In any event, you ask questions. God's gift of curiosity has found a great outlet in you. Perhaps you would focus your "genius" on other matters that we can all better dialogue on. What's the difference between you and a person in prison? A prisoner can see the bars that imprison him, but you cannot see the bars that inhibit your liberties
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no_name
(agitator) 02/04/06 12:03 PM

Quote:
Yes, all those tens of thousands of little bombs managed to hit exactly one spot in Hiroshima and all detonate at exactly the same time, instead of the several hours of bombing that a firebombing takes.
The bombing raid did not need to be precise. No more than the Tokyo firebombing on March 10, 1945. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were matchboxes just waiting for an excuse to ignite. The ordinance and the target were so well matched up that the resulting firestorm superheated the jellied oil of the M-69 condensing it in the cooler upper layers of the atmosphere resulting in a black oily rain downpour full of gutwrenching toxins and cancer inducing agents. They said the fish died in the waters and cattle that ate grass covered with this oil died. Take these truths, add the words atomic and radioactivity and you are faced with an exercise in editing worth billions.
Grave of the Fireflies

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Uvas
(rebel) 02/04/06 12:10 PM 1)
The abundant evidence and eyewitnesses prove that there was one central detonation point.
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no_name
(agitator) 02/04/06 12:19 PM

(Score: 1) Quote:
[ To: knownalien | Post 294398433, reply to 294398149 ]
you are either a genius, or very non-genius.
I have been home schooling for the past 30 years. Call it whatever you want. I read and I connect the dots. The internet has given me a chance to share my work with you.
Quote:
In any event, you ask questions. God's gift of curiosity has found a great outlet in you.
The creator gave you the same image he gave me. It is said that we are all made in his image. If God is peace and justice I am honored to be his instrument.
Quote:
Perhaps you would focus your "genius" on other matters that we can all better dialogue on.
I can't think of anything better than saving lives and helping people get the information they need to make the best possible choices in life. I am always eager to discuss any matter relevant to my objectives. Anything in particular you had in mind?

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Hoosier_Patriot
(rebel) 02/04/06 12:21 PM
How could a man so deeply involved in the development of the fuse mechanism of the M-69 not see that Hiroshima and Nagasaki bore the scars of a M-69 firebombing? One theory would be that the massive, widespread destruction that resulted from the single nuclear weapon used on each city did a pretty good job of obliterating the imaginary M-69 "scars." They disguise it, Hypnotize it_Television made you buy it_Mezmerize the simple minded_Propaganda leaves us blinded
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no_name
(agitator) 02/04/06 12:29 PM

Quote:
The abundant evidence and eyewitnesses prove that there was one central detonation point.
Go back into the thread and find the survivor quotes given to me by Cubicle-Guy and read them again. They are so contradictory as to make me think these contradictions are the result of many different people seeing many different M-69 fires raging around them. One says the glow was yellow, the other blue, the other bright white and so on. If you want to get into the matter of testimonials I would encourage you to bring them up on a case-by-case basis so we can see exactly what they are saying. Many witnesses speak of a black oily toxic rain that is characteristic of M-69 firebombing raids. Lets look at them individually as I have been doing all along. I can't answer to these generalization of yours because they mean nothing. Let's get specific. Let me send a question back to you. How can the witnesses be telling the truth about one big blast when all the evidence in this thread would tend to prove otherwise. How can you possibly entertain doubts like these after everything you have read so far? Why have you stopped trying to justify spending billions of dollars to do something 2 million dollars can do? Do you ever plan on giving me an answer to this question?

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Uvas
(rebel) 02/04/06 12:32 PM 1)
You have produced no proof of a firebombing of Hiroshima, except of how much money you think a fire bombing may have cost in dollars.
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no_name
(agitator) 02/04/06 12:44 PM

(Score: 1) Quote:
One theory would be that the massive, widespread destruction that resulted from the single nuclear weapon used on each city did a pretty good job of obliterating the imaginary M-69 "scars."
The aerial views of Hiroshima, Nagasaki and any other city firebombed with M-69 are identical. The damage observed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki is consistent with the damage done by the M-69 firebomb and INconsistent with the mathematical models of the shockwaves and destruction of the so-called atom bomb. If I can see it Vannevar Bush could see it too. One look at those charred trees standing upright all over the place is a dead giveaway. The clean streets are consistent with the absence of a massive shock wave. The missing historical seismograms don't make matters easier for the hoaxsters either. The official story has more holes than a mosquito net. The only scars left by the M-69 are the empty charred M-69 shells scattered around everywhere. The rest is the cumulative effect of the fires raging out of control. You might like to ask how come not a single testimonial out of Hiroshima or Nagasaki speaks of these containers laying around all over the place like they did in Tokyo and elsewhere while at the same time the testimonials of Hiroshima depict a dying man's fingers burning with black oily flames and others speak of the M-69 black rain following the raids.

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no_name
(agitator) 02/04/06 12:53 PM

Quote:
You have produced no proof of a firebombing of Hiroshima, except of how much money you think a fire bombing may have cost in dollars.
Is this the part where you try to convince me that a raid of 350 B-29s costs untold billions of dollars?

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Hoosier_Patriot
(rebel) 02/04/06 12:55 PM
You might like to ask how come not a single testimonial out of Hiroshima or Nagasaki speaks of these containers laying around all over the place like they did in Tokyo and elsewhere while at the same time the testimonials of Hiroshima depict a dying man's fingers burning with black oily flames and others speak of the M-69 black rain following the raids. Actually, no, no need for me to ask. No firebombs = no containers = no testimonials about containers. You use the word testimonials depicting one dying mans fingers. Is that a typo, or are you saying that there were multiple testimonials describing one mans fingers? And who spoke of the M-69 black rain, besides you that is. Black rain testimonials are one thing, for you to ascribe the term M-69 to testimonials of black rain is disingenuous unless you can produce testimonials containing the full term as you are using it They disguise it, Hypnotize it_Television made you buy it_Mezmerize the simple minded_Propaganda leaves us blinded
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no_name
(agitator) 02/04/06 01:21 PM

(Score: 1)
Quote:
Actually, no, no need for me to ask. No firebombs = no containers = no testimonials about containers.
Trees charred and standing= NO shock wave Clean streets= No shockwave No historical seismograms= convenient Ignited jellied oil= cancers, illness, burns, death Control of world media= convenient Control of world leadership positions= convenient Control of world wealth= convenient Lots of ignited jellied oil showers= compliant instrument of propaganda Millions of atom bomb leaflets airdropped= terms of surrender Charring the bodies= reductionin plague risks Gen Curtis LeMay= rabbi-driven trash
Quote:
You use the word testimonials depicting one dying mans fingers.
Read the thread please.

Quote:
Is that a typo, or are you saying that there were multiple testimonials describing one mans fingers
One paintinng, it's in the thread. Fingers dripping with black flaming substance. Go look at it, the fingers are glowing. How do so-called atom bombs do that?
Quote:
And who spoke of the M-69 black rain, besides you that is.
That's right, I said M-69. The numerous testimonials I have amassed speak of a black rain. Is it your intention to explain this rain as something else besides the product of vaporized jellied oil?
Quote:
Black rain testimonials are one thing, for you to ascribe the term M-69 to testimonials of black rain is disingenuous unless you can produce testimonials containing the full term as you are using it
The quoted testimonials are posted in this thread in open public view. Anyone misled by my statement is not paying attention or indulging in diversionary tactics. Why don't you try tackling some of the tough questions in this thread like why anyone would pay untold billions to do a job a few hundred B-29 could do in under 2 million dollars. How does your math add up in this matter, would you have at least fired the head of accounts payables?

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Uvas
(rebel) 02/04/06 01:54 PM 1)
No, this is supposed to be the part where you call me a jew.
Or perhaps, offer some evidence?
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Hoosier_Patriot
(rebel) 02/04/06 01:56 PM
One paintinng, it's in the thread. Fingers dripping with black flaming substance. Know anything about art there no_name? Ever heard of symbolism? Or subjectivity? Or the mingling of the two? Ever seen works by Dali? What real world occurances would a work by Dali such as 'Persistence Of Memory' depict or "prove?" They disguise it, Hypnotize it_Television made you buy it_Mezmerize the simple minded_Propaganda leaves us blinded
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no_name
(agitator) 02/04/06 01:57 PM 1)
Here is a small compilation of quotes and links we can look at and discuss;
from this webpage (bold emphasis mine)

Quote:
A Japanese schoolgirl, sixteen at the time, recalled years later that it was a beautiful morning. She saw a B-29 fly by, then a flash. She put her hands up and "my hands went right through my face." She saw "a man without feet, walking on his ankles." She passed out. "By the time I wake up, black rain was falling. I thought I was blind, but I got my eyes open, and I saw a beautiful blue sky and the dead city. Nobody is standing up. Nobody is walking around. I wanted to go home to my mother.
another here (bold emphasis mine)

Quote:
Nagasaki and Hiroshima rain followed the explosion. The air was so full of radioactive
ash that the rain turned to a dark tarry "black rain" (Hersey 38). Fish in the rivers died and cattle that ate grass covered in the black rain died.
another here (bold emphasis mine)

Quote:
Yasuko; her aunt, Shigeko; and her uncle, Shigematsu. It examines in detail the postnuclear effects on the life of a woman poisoned by the fallout-laden black rain of the Hiroshima blast and on her family and her village.
and here (bold emphasis mine)

Quote:
found myself lying on the ground near the house. I thought the house was just in front of me but I couldn't see it because everything had become so dark and many pieces of wood and roof tiles and rubbish were falling on my head. There was black rain falling... It smelled bad and there were many spots on my white blouse
here is the exact wording that came with the flaming fingers paintingposted earlier in this thread: (bold emphasis mine)
Quote:
Takakura Nobuko created this painting based upon what he saw in Hiroshima. Despite the hellish devastation all around him, this one thing stuck in Mr. Takakura's memory. In his own words: " A man who died apparently on the spot lies there with one hand pointing to the sky. Blue flames rise from his fingers, and liquid the color of indian ink drips down." Mr. Takakur was 18 when he witnessed this haunting reality in 1945.
more black rain in Hiroshima (previously posted in this thread) (bold emphasis mine)
Quote:
The horror the bomb caused is painfully apparent in Laskeys recollections of the days following the brutal attack. She remembers being awakened after passing out by a man who warned her to take cover from the "black rain"-dark, radioactive precipitation. "But I couldnt move so I passed out again."
and here with regards to the shock wave (bold emphasis mine)
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The ground shock in most cities was very light. Water pipes still carried water and where leaks were visible they were mainly above ground. Virtually all of the damage to underground utilities was caused by the collapse of buildings rather than by any direct exertion of the blast pressure. This fact of course resulted from the bombs' having been exploded high in the air.
more on the black rain in Hiroshima (bold emphasis mine}

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Fumiko Nakahiro described her father, a victim of massive radiation dosage at Hiroshima: "Fathers hair had all fallen out and he was covered in blue stigmata. He died shouting in delirium and his hands clawing the air" (Shohno 49).

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no_name
(agitator) 02/04/06 02:04 PM

(Score: 1) Quote:
Know anything about art there no_name?
I know that Van Gogh painted oleanders. You know, that plant that was growing everywhere in Hiroshima where the experts said vegetation would not return for 75 years.
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Ever heard of symbolism? Or subjectivity? Or the mingling of the two? Ever seen works by Dali? What real world occurances would a work by Dali such as 'Persistence Of Memory' depict or "prove?"
Are you serious?

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Uvas
(rebel) 02/04/06 02:14 PM 1)
Black rain seems to be the result of firestorms. So what? There was a firestorm in Hiroshima, and there was a firestorm in Tokyo. They just were started by different events. Or perhaps you can pull out an eyewitness account of the waves of low level B-29's over Hiroshima that were necessary for a firebombing, out of your quote sources?
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no_name
(agitator) 02/04/06 02:32 PM

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Black rain seems to be the result of firestorms.
Yes
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So what? There was a firestorm in Hiroshima, and there was a firestorm in Tokyo.
The vaporized black jellied oil is what produces the black rain. What are you going to tell me about so-called atom bomb firestorms that produce black oily rain? Are you going to say it was the refineries in Hiroshima that produced the black oily rain or are you now going to argue that so-called radioactivity produces oily condensation in the upper atmosphere? I hope not because there were not the kinds of depots needed to produce the torrents of black rain implied in the testimonies. The black rain is produced by vaporized and condensed oil.
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They just were started by different events.
Is that your evidence?

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Or perhaps you can pull out an eyewitness account of the waves of low level B-29's over Hiroshima that were necessary for a firebombing, out of your quote sources?
Chances are if you saw the planes you did not live. The hoaxsters were well positioned and had the means to silence whatever dissenting opinion that survived the genocide. Just look at the page views of this thread and ask why it is not mainstream and wonder why a handful of dissident voices in 1940s japan might not get heard either. The only reason anyone is reading this truth is because the internet has arrived. Something I am sure the hoaxsters back then could not foresee. Did you know that most people don't even know that Tokyo was massively bombed on March 10, 1945?

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Hoosier_Patriot
(rebel) 02/04/06 02:51 PM
Are you serious? Absolutely. What statement was the artist of the painting you reference making? You've stated your totally subjective view of what you think it depicts, I'm just wondering how you presume to speak to the intent of the artist and, through your viewpont alone, tell others with certainty that you know the intent of the depiction and use it to further your claims. They disguise it, Hypnotize it_Television made you buy it_Mezmerize the simple minded_Propaganda leaves us blinded
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Uvas
(rebel) 02/04/06 06:44 PM

Quote:
Yes, and the "pi" function would have a very big player in that spherically radiating expanding atmospheric mass-disturbance up to the point where the chaos of a return to balance of unprecedented magnitude creates cloud dispersal patterns never seen before.
I just love your gibberish! a. Because of the tremendous amounts of energy liberated per unit mass in a nuclear detonation, temperatures of several tens of million degrees centigrade develop in the immediate area of the detonation. This is in marked contrast to the few thousand degrees of a conventional explosion. At these very high temperatures the nonfissioned parts of the nuclear weapon are vaporized. The atoms do not release the energy as kinetic energy but release it in the form of large amounts of electromagnetic radiation. In an atmospheric detonation, this electromagnetic radiation, consisting chiefly of soft x-ray, is absorbed within a few meters of the point of detonation by the surrounding atmosphere, heating it to extremely high temperatures and forming a brilliantly hot sphere of air and gaseous weapon residues, the so-called fireball. Immediately upon formation, the fireball begins to grow rapidly and rise like a hot air balloon. Within a millisecond after detonation, the diameter of the fireball from a 1 megaton (Mt) air burst is 150 m. This increases to a maximum of 2200 m within 10 seconds, at which time the fireball is also rising at the rate of 100 m/sec. The initial rapid expansion of the fireball severely compresses the surrounding atmosphere, producing a powerful blast wave, discussed below. b. The fireball itself emits enormous amounts of electromagnetic radiation, similar in its spectrum to sunlight. This is usually termed thermal radiation. The visible light component accounts for the blinding flash seen upon detonation as well as the subsequent brightness of the fireball, while the infrared component results in widespread burns and incendiary effects. c. As it expands toward its maximum diameter, the fireball cools, and after about a minute its temperature has decreased to such an extent that it no longer emits significant amounts of thermal radiation. The combination of the upward movement and the cooling of the fireball gives rise to the formation of the characteristic mushroom-shaped cloud. As the fireball cools, the vaporized materials in it condense to form a cloud of solid particles. Following an air burst, condensed droplets of water give it a typical white cloudlike appearance. In the case of a surface burst, this cloud will also contain large quantities of dirt and other debris which are vaporized when the fireball touches the earth's surface or are sucked up by the strong updrafts afterwards, giving the cloud a dirty brown appearance. The dirt and debris become contaminated with the radioisotopes generated by the explosion or activated by neutron radiation and fall to earth as fallout. d. The cloud rises for a period of approximately 10 minutes to a stabilized height which depends on the thermal output of the weapon and atmospheric conditions. It will continue to grow laterally assuming the familiar mushroom shape and may remain visible for an hour or more under favorable conditions. For example, the nuclear cloud from a 1 Mt surface burst will stabilize at an altitude of over 20 kilometers (km) and will have a mean lateral diameter of 35 km.
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no_nam e
(agitator) 02/04/06 06:44 PM

Quote:
I don't think I would want to be hanging around in a black rain, seems like common sense to me...
Seems like common sense to use your nose and realize the place is drenched in oil and ignited jellied oil. Burning oil smells a lot. Seems like common sense to worry more about someone's immediate safety instead of the potential hazard of some soot-filled black rain. People in every firebombed city were worried about this black oily, sticky substance raining down after the raids because they knew it made people greivously ill when it did not outright kill them.
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So, you got any mushroom clouds of conventional explosions going up 40,000 to 60,000 feet?
The only mushroom clouds you will ever see are conventional explosives. My argument is that an atom bomb would not create a mushroom cloud if it existed and behaved as the mathematical models predicted. The barometric pressure disturbances would have set off a series of meteorological phenomenons never seen before.
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I guess we have come to the part where publicly available evidence is altered and falsified and your lack of evidence is proof.
From THIS webpage:

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The atomic age is as old as cinema itself. One hundred years ago as Wilhelm Roentgen was announcing X-rays to the world, pioneer filmmakers the Lumiere Brothers and Thomas Edison were projecting rudimentary motion pictures to astonished audiences.
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Soon I will be a Jew.
I wish you a pleasant circumcision, lol. If you're a guy in "chick" avatar.

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Uvas
(rebel) 02/04/06 06:46 PM

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The only mushroom clouds you will ever see are conventional explosives. My argument is that an atom bomb would not create a mushroom cloud if it existed and behaved as the mathematical models predicted. The barometric pressure disturbances would have set off a series of meteorological phenomenons never seen before.
Yay! A repeat preformance! *claps*
a. Because of the tremendous amounts of energy liberated per unit mass in a nuclear detonation, temperatures of several tens of million degrees centigrade develop in the immediate area of the detonation. This is in marked contrast to the few thousand degrees of a conventional explosion. At these very high temperatures the nonfissioned parts of the nuclear weapon are vaporized. The atoms do not release the energy as kinetic energy but release it in the form of large amounts of electromagnetic radiation. In an atmospheric detonation, this electromagnetic radiation, consisting chiefly of soft x-ray, is absorbed within a few meters of the point of detonation by the surrounding atmosphere, heating it to extremely high temperatures and forming a brilliantly hot sphere of air and gaseous weapon residues, the so-called fireball. Immediately upon formation, the fireball begins to grow rapidly and rise like a hot air balloon. Within a millisecond after detonation, the diameter of the fireball from a 1 megaton (Mt) air burst is 150 m. This increases to a maximum of 2200 m within 10 seconds, at which time the fireball is also rising at the rate of 100 m/sec. The initial rapid expansion of the fireball severely compresses the surrounding atmosphere, producing a powerful blast wave, discussed below. b. The fireball itself emits enormous amounts of electromagnetic radiation, similar in its spectrum to sunlight. This is usually termed thermal radiation. The visible light component accounts for the blinding flash seen upon detonation as well as the subsequent brightness of the fireball, while the infrared component results in widespread burns and incendiary effects. c. As it expands toward its maximum diameter, the fireball cools, and after about a minute its temperature has decreased to such an extent that it no longer emits significant amounts of thermal radiation. The combination of the upward movement and the cooling of the fireball gives rise to the formation of the characteristic mushroom-shaped cloud. As the fireball cools, the vaporized materials in it condense to form a cloud of solid particles. Following an air burst, condensed droplets of water give it a typical white cloudlike appearance. In the case of a surface burst, this cloud will also contain large quantities of dirt and other debris which are vaporized when the fireball touches the earth's surface or are sucked up by the strong updrafts afterwards, giving the cloud a dirty brown appearance. The dirt and debris become contaminated with the radioisotopes generated by the explosion or activated by neutron radiation and fall to earth as fallout. d. The cloud rises for a period of approximately 10 minutes to a stabilized height which depends on the thermal output of the weapon and atmospheric conditions. It will continue to grow laterally assuming the familiar mushroom shape and may remain visible for an hour or more under favorable conditions. For example, the nuclear cloud from a 1 Mt surface burst will stabilize at an altitude of over 20 kilometers (km) and will have a mean lateral diameter of 35 km.
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no_nam e
(agitator) 02/04/06 06:48 PM

Quote:
[ To: Ubertarian | Post 294399424, reply to 294399271 ] (Score: 1)
"concept unknown to the world at large" ??? Except maybe the people who were seeing it at work all around them, don't you think???
Like those countless thousands that saw jews get gassed? Spare me your blanket testimonials and focus on the ones you find the most compelling and discuss those instead of trying to make me disprove your mass generalizations. Grave of the Fireflies
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no_nam e
[ To: Hoosier_Patriot | Post 294399450, reply to 294399376 ] (Score: 1)
Quote:
No, it's not, but seeing as how what I described wasn't a mesocyclone, or verga, or weather related at all for that matter, I really have no clue why you bring it up. Well, on second thought, I do have a clue as to why you bring it up, it's simply more of your smoke and mirrors song and dance.
The bottom line is you can't expect the same mushroom cloud you would normally get with a ground based firestorm as you would expect from a high-powered airburst. Especially one said to deliver it's full energentic potential in one big blast. The blast characteristics are completely different and you expect a carbon copy of a napalm ground-based firestorm cloud formations and mushhroom growth. It's not a reasonable expectation.
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And therein lies your problem Cactus. You're the only one saying it.
(agitator) 02/04/06 06:56 PM
You call that a problem for ME. lol? I look at you and wonder how you can still believe that hoax pile of crap adter everything you have read. What have you debunked lately?
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I've seen enough on this trip through your bizarre bazaar. I'll stop back by when I'm in this end of town again. Until then, happy hawking.
Promises promises. You'll be back,lol.

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Uvas
(rebel) 02/04/06 07:02 PM

Quote:
The blast characteristics are completely different and you expect a carbon copy of a napalm groundbased firestorm cloud formations and mushhroom growth. It's not a reasonable expectation.
*claps* Yay! Tell me more about the firebomb mushroom cloud mechanics! Its spine tingling!
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no_nam e
(agitator) 02/04/06 07:26 PM

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I just love your gibberish!
Is this another of your "cute" moments?

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a. Because of the tremendous amounts of energy liberated per unit mass in a nuclear detonation, temperatures of several tens of million degrees centigrade develop in the immediate area of the
detonation. This is in marked contrast to the few thousand degrees of a conventional explosion.
Exactly, so why do you expect the same mushroom cloud?

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At these very high temperatures the nonfissioned parts of the nuclear weapon are vaporized.
So much so in fact that the resulting area of damage this so-called radical billion-dollar weapon can do is no better than the bombing a few hundred B-29 could do under 2 million dollars. Must have consumed 99% of the mass, lol.
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The atoms do not release the energy as kinetic energy but release it in the form of large amounts of electromagnetic radiation
I suppose that is why oleanders were growing all over the place just one week after a so-called atomic blast that would destroy vegetation for 75 years.
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In an atmospheric detonation, this electromagnetic radiation, consisting chiefly of soft x-ray, is absorbed within a few meters of the point of detonation by the surrounding atmosphere, heating it to extremely high temperatures and forming a brilliantly hot sphere of air and gaseous weapon residues, the so-called fireball. Immediately upon formation
Soft x-rays, lol. And you call me the clown.

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. Immediately upon formation, the fireball begins to grow rapidly and rise like a hot air balloon. Within a millisecond after detonation, the diameter of the fireball from a 1 megaton (Mt) air burst is 150 m. This increases to a maximum of 2200 m within 10 seconds, at which time the fireball is also rising at the rate of 100 m/sec. The initial rapid expansion of the fireball severely compresses the surrounding atmosphere, producing a powerful blast wave, discussed below.
The damage of Hiroshima is inconsistent with your present rationalizations. The blast wave did not even drop old charred trees. There was no shock wave at all. Most city infrastructures were up and running soon after the firebombings.
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. The fireball itself emits enormous amounts of electromagnetic radiation, similar in its spectrum to sunlight. This is usually termed thermal radiation. The visible light component accounts for the blinding flash seen upon detonation as well as the subsequent brightness of the fireball, while the infrared component results in widespread burns and incendiary effects.
There was no blinding flash unless a special magnesium monster bomb was dropped before the clusters.. The eyewitnesses describe the flashes in such a variety of ways as to suggest they are describing several fires. How can people be eyewitnesses if their retinas were burnt out by a socalled atom bomb? Where are all the blind survivors?
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c. As it expands toward its maximum diameter, the fireball cools, and after about a minute its temperature has decreased to such an extent that it no longer emits significant amounts of thermal radiation. The combination of the upward movement and the cooling of the fireball gives rise to the formation of the characteristic mushroom-shaped cloud.
The mushroom cloud is a hallmark of the incendiary firestorm not the hallmark of an airburst radial explosive. The column leading up to the mushroom is the firestorm spiral representing the cumulative effects of superheating a conflagration in progress. spiral winds of high intensity develop and this spouts up into the sky. Not in the least the characteristic signature of a so-called device that has just vaporized the cushion of air half a mile into the sky. Just the instantaneous temperature
rises in the upper 1500 ft would distort the shape of any budding mushroom cloud before it even got close to adopting the form we have come to associate with this hoax.
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Following an air burst, condensed droplets of water give it a typical white cloudlike appearance. In the case of a surface burst, this cloud will also contain large quantities of dirt and other debris which are vaporized when the fireball touches the earth's surface or are sucked up by the strong updrafts afterwards, giving the cloud a dirty brown appearance. The dirt and debris become contaminated with the radioisotopes generated by the explosion or activated by neutron radiation and fall to earth as fallout.
But Tokyo was bombed with firebombs and the black rain there killed and made people very sick. There is no radioactivity in firebombs. Are you saying radioactivity causes black rain?
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d. The cloud rises for a period of approximately 10 minutes to a stabilized height which depends on the thermal output of the weapon and atmospheric conditions. It will continue to grow laterally assuming the familiar mushroom shape and may remain visible for an hour or more under favorable conditions. For example, the nuclear cloud from a 1 Mt surface burst will stabilize at an altitude of over 20 kilometers (km) and will have a mean lateral diameter of 35 km.
Just like that. What a dreamer. You gotta be working for Monsters Inc, lol.

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no_nam e
(agitator) 02/04/06 07:38 PM

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Stop asking for the truth, you can't handle the truth. You are suffering from a peanut-gallery illness called ASFDCS and SCS. The peanut-gallery of LF is infected in epidemic proportions. The sufferers exhibit the attention span of a ferret on a double cappuccino and usually suffer also from Selective Curiosity Syndrome. Don't panic it's not final, you can work your way back to a state of healthy inquisition (full spectrum curiosity) and focus exercises will curb the lazy mind that searches for answers where they need less exert effort. And drink plenty of carrot juice,lol. Grave of the Fireflies
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Uvas
(rebel) 02/04/06 08:09 PM

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Exactly, so why do you expect the same mushroom cloud?
I don't. There is no mushroom cloud from a firebombing.

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So much so in fact that the resulting area of damage this so-called radical billion-dollar weapon can do is no better than the bombing a few hundred B-29 could do under 2 million dollars. Must have
consumed 99% of the mass, lol.
You are really concerned with money, are you sure you are not a Jewish shill?
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I suppose that is why oleanders were growing all over the place just one week after a so-called atomic blast that would destroy vegetation for 75 years.
Only you say they shouldn't grow for 75 years. You are now providing false evidence for yourself?
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Soft x-rays, lol. And you call me the clown.
Yes I do call you a clown, and this is one of the reasons. X-ray with a wavelength approximately longer than 0.1 nm are called soft X-rays. At wavelengths shorter than this, they are called hard Xrays.
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The damage of Hiroshima is inconsistent with your present rationalizations. The blast wave did not even drop old charred trees. There was no shock wave at all. Most city infrastructures were up and running soon after the firebombings.
First of all those numbers are for a one megaton blast, and Hiroshima was 15 kiloton. But we know that you don't worry over numbers. In Hiroshima over 60,000 of 90,000 buildings were destroyed or severely damaged by the atomic bomb; this figure represents over 67% of the city's structures. Up and running quickly, indeed.
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There was no blinding flash unless a special magnesium monster bomb was dropped before the clusters.. The eyewitnesses describe the flashes in such a variety of ways as to suggest they are describing several fires. How can people be eyewitnesses if their retinas were burnt out by a socalled atom bomb? Where are all the blind survivors?
There are many eyewitness accounts of a flash of light which is quite different from the steady light given off by fires. The total mortalities due to burns alone cannot be estimated with any degree of accuracy. As mentioned already, it is believed that the majority of all the deaths occurred immediately. Of these, the Japanese estimate that 75%, and most of the reports estimate that over 50%, of the deaths were due to burns. If you were blinded by the flash, you were very likely also dead.
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The mushroom cloud is a hallmark of the incendiary firestorm
Oh really, perhaps some proofs are in order here? Like a picture of a firestorm producing a mushroom cloud that rises 40,000 to 60,000 feet.
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But Tokyo was bombed with firebombs and the black rain there killed and made people very sick. There is no radioactivity in firebombs. Are you saying radioactivity causes black rain?
No, I was stating that a surface detonation throws a fair amount of materials into the atmosphere.
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Just like that.
No, that is what has been observed in the twenty years or so of airburst test detonations of nuclear bombs.
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Uvas
(rebel) 02/04/06 08:27 PM
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no_nam e
(agitator) 02/05/06 01:39 PM

Quote:
I don't. There is no mushroom cloud from a firebombing.
This picture of a napalm mushroom cloud from page 3 of this thread :
Thermobarics also create mushroom clouds. Quote from this story : (bold emphasis mine)
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The Air Force dropped 11 daisy cutters in the Gulf Conflict, and British SAS troops who saw one of the explosions from miles away thought it was a tactical nuclear weapon. Indeed, there is no practical difference between nuclear and thermobaric weapons. Both weapons create similar overpressures, about 10,000 pounds per square foot at ground zero. They destroy indiscriminately over a wide area, ruin farmland and pose an enormous threat to civilian populations. And while thermobarics do not create residual radiation, they do leave behind sizeable amounts of toxic chemicals not burned off in the blast, which poison civilians and farmland.
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You are really concerned with money, are you sure you are not a Jewish shill?
I would never lie, cheat or kill someone to get some. I am not a jew I am a moderate. The money interests me insofar as it applies to the point I am making about multi-billion dollar ripoffs. How do you want me to illustrate this concept without talking about the money involved? If you would rationalize the examples I give te first time round I would not need to give you the money example over and over. You keep denying the american public were royally ripped off so I reiterate the reasons why and you complain. Maybe I should ignore you.
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Only you say they shouldn't grow for 75 years. You are now providing false evidence for yourself?
You statement flies in the face of every piece of fear mongering propaganda put out by these atomic hoaxsters. I have been observing you tweak down the destructive power of these hoax bombs for a while now. In a few months you will describe an so-called atomic bomb as harmless as a tanning salon. I have seen enough truly curious people to know you are not one of them. If you want to believe in atom bombs like your bombster collegues be my guest I won't lose sleep over it. I am free from the bondage and implied fear of those hoax bombs.
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Yes I do call you a clown, and this is one of the reasons. X-ray with a wavelength approximately longer than 0.1 nm are called soft X-rays. At wavelengths shorter than this, they are called hard Xrays.
Want to trade 3 beans for your cow, lol?

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First of all those numbers are for a one megaton blast, and Hiroshima was 15 kiloton. But we know that you don't worry over numbers. In Hiroshima over 60,000 of 90,000 buildings were destroyed or severely damaged by the atomic bomb; this figure represents over 67% of the city's structures. Up and running quickly, indeed.
The damage to Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined was less than the damage done to Tokyo on March 10 1945 with 350 B-29s for under 1 million dollars. Hiroshima and Nagasaki WERE bombed using several hundred B-29 and M-69 firebombs. And the so-called bomb was said to be 20,000 tonnes not 15,000. Still tweaking the numbers down I see.
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There are many eyewitness accounts of a flash of light which is quite different from the steady light given off by fires. The total mortalities due to burns alone cannot be estimated with any degree of accuracy. As mentioned already, it is believed that the majority of all the deaths occurred immediately. Of these, the Japanese estimate that 75%, and most of the reports estimate that over 50%, of the deaths were due to burns. If you were blinded by the flash, you were very likely also dead.
The testimonials of the so-called blast are contradictory and indicate rather many fires burning. The black rain came from the vaporized and condensed oil molecules from the massive use of M-69 that results in a firestorm. Atomic bombs don't exist.
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Oh really, perhaps some proofs are in order here? Like a picture of a firestorm producing a mushroom cloud that rises 40,000 to 60,000 feet.
Stop using retouched photos to make your point about 40,000 ft mushroom clouds that never were. You start by proving that unrealistically high mushroom cloud existed to start with. Mushroom clouds never rise as high as you claim.
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No, I was stating that a surface detonation throws a fair amount of materials into the atmosphere.
Materials not oil unless a refinery has been hit hard or M-69 was dropped in huge quantities. Your so-called atom bomb has no reason to produce black rain that kills cows and fish and smells very bad. The so-called atom bomb would, if it had existed, created atmospheric disturbances whereby a mushroom cloud could not exist. The pressures and temperature distributions would have been completely different. You still have not explained what you think black rain is. If it were soot and debris you would find these black rain showers near massive forest fires which we don't. The black rain is oil.
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No, that is what has been observed in the twenty years or so of airburst test detonations of nuclear bombs.
When was the last time you saw a mushroom cloud from an airburst? The only mushroom clouds anyone ever saw were those created with firestorms, napalm bombs and thermobaric. I expect they will be using thermobaric bombs to simulate atomic blasts if they need to in the future. The only reason you have seen mushroom clouds to start with is because they were produced using conventional explosives and incendiaries.

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polperro
(insurgent) 02/05/06 01:47 PM
Why don't you volunteer to go and stand a mile away from the next nuclear weapon test. That should convince you, one way or the other!
Said the apple to the orange Oh I wanted you to come Close to me and kiss me To the core Then you might know me Like no other orange
Has ever done Before

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no_nam e
(agitator) 02/05/06 01:57 PM

Quote:
[ To: polperro | Post 294401321, reply to 294401307 ] (Score: 1)
Why don't you volunteer to go and stand a mile away from the next nuclear weapon test.
Atomic weapons would need to exist for me to do something dumb like that. Have you been reading this thread or are you just spamming through?
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That should convince you, one way or the other
Reasoning and logic are far safer. The so-called atom bomb blast you propose in your model is simulated using a very destructive conventional source of explosive power so how will my being vaporized by conventional explosive prove your point? Grave of the Fireflies
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gjenkins
A conventional explosion will not hurt you a mile away. Just do it.
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Uvas
(rebel) 02/05/06 02:04 PM

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Want to trade 3 beans for your cow, lol?
You are an idiot. Perhaps you can supply some evidence of an acknowledged firebombing that resulted in a mushroom cloud. Or lets see how big those thermobaric mushroom clouds are. I've seen pictures of those and they are nothing in comparison.
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no_nam e
(agitator) 02/05/06 02:07 PM

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A conventional explosion will not hurt you a mile away. Just do it.
We were talking about the explosive power to simulate a so-called nuclear explosion not an outdoor bar-b-que. I don't need to be vaporized by any type of explosion to make the points I have made in this thread. You ride horseback on the weirdest statements some of the posters from the LF peanut gallery make. Why don't you submit a picture of an exploding firecracker and call it a strategic micro-nuclear device, lol? Grave of the Fireflies
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Uvas
(rebel) 02/05/06 02:09 PM
Yes you only have to pile up 15 MILLION tons of tnt where no one can see, toss it up about 1800 feet into the air, and explode it! See? Simple.
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gjenkins
Either he is an idiot, or he is playing a game. He has a circular rationalization schtick going. He never acknowledges a point and just dances from false assertion to false assertion ... repeating them, ad infinum. Like all conspiratorialists, he elevates his own lack of understanding above others understanding and first hand experience.
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gjenkins
You make no points. You assert your silly story with little science to back you up and against all evidence.
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polperro
(insurgent) 02/05/06 02:16 PM

Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Why don't you volunteer to go and stand a mile away from the next nuclear weapon test. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Atomic weapons would need to exist for me to do something dumb like that. Have you been reading this thread or are you just spamming through?
But as you're so sure that nukes don't exist, you would have nothing to fear. Conventional explosives don't have the degree of thermal radiation that a nuke has, so you should be absolutely safe as long as your theory is correct.
Said the apple to the orange Oh I wanted you to come Close to me and kiss me
To the core Then you might know me Like no other orange Has ever done Before
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no_nam e
(agitator) 02/05/06 02:18 PM

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You are an idiot.
Ok, ok..5 beans then.

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Perhaps you can supply some evidence of an acknowledged firebombing that resulted in a mushroom cloud.
Perhaps you can supply evidence that atomic bombs produce mushroom clouds. Don't bother getting pushy with your burdon-of-proof dysfunctions. The atom bomb has never been proven. This thread has been disproving the official story from the start and all you do is ask for more even when the evidence you bring forward is only supported by the illusions that everybody already believes them. I think the official story is crap and you should start thinking of finding something compelling before the whole mess of lies and wet cardboard is driven by the torrential rains of historical revisionism the rest of the way down the hill into the muddy streams of insignificance.
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Or lets see how big those thermobaric mushroom clouds are
You read the British SAS quote about the striking ressemblance of a thermobaric explosion with the explosions the hoaxsters described as atomic. Some people will never have enough evidence to rip away from their precious boogeymen.
Quote:
I've seen pictures of those and they are nothing in comparison.
You have also seen the aerial views of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Tokyo. The damage is all the same because the weapon used was the same. That is why there is black rain in every testimonial. You have not disproved any of this. In effect your stumbling around has given the reader a better appreciation of the holes in the officia story. Grave of the Fireflies
Post Extras:
Uvas
(rebel) 02/05/06 02:21 PM

Quote:
Ok, ok..5 beans then.
You are really an idiot. Perhaps you can supply a picture of an admitted conventional weapon creating a mushroom cloud.
--no name
Post Extras:
no_nam e
(agitator) 02/05/06 02:22 PM

Quote:
Yes you only have to pile up 15 MILLION tons of tnt where no one can see, toss it up about 1800 feet into the air, and explode it! See? Simple.
They did not use 15 million tons of TNT to level Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those two cities were just begging for an excuse to catch on fire. They were destroyed with less than 3500 tons of M-69 firebombs. You have some nerve saying I mix numbers up throwing bull like that around. Grave of the Fireflies
Post Extras:
no_nam e
(agitator) 02/05/06 02:25 PM

Quote:
You make no points.
Said 1/11000th of LF.

Quote:
You assert your silly story with little science to back you up and against all evidence.
The official story is what is silly cowboy. Wake up and smell the napalm. Grave of the Fireflies
Post Extras:
no_nam e
(agitator) 02/05/06 02:32 PM

Quote:
You are really an idiot.
Said the anon LF member that can't make his mind up if it was good idea for the working american masses to pay untold billions of dollars for a job done with a few hundred B-29 for less than 2 million dollars. "Idiot", is the textbook definition of someone that can't see the difference. A person that can see this difference and could give a crap is a jew. The jews lined their pockets big time so they did not suffer inconvenience from these incredible job-payment ratio disparities.
Quote:
Perhaps you can supply a picture of an admitted conventional weapon creating a mushroom cloud.
Already did above if you had been paying attention. Are you back to your old discussion disrupting tactics. Do you think you can exhaust me with your hairsplitting nonsense? You are a dreamer.

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Hiroshima: Before and After

This is Hiroshima before the atom bomb:

..and after the bomb exploded:

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: cactus | Post 292989031, reply to 292989028 ] (Score: 1)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: cactus | Post 292989411, reply to 292989028 ] (Score: 2)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: Fred25 | Post 292990871, reply to 292989411 ] (Score: 2,

Sounds pretty cozy. These guys really lived high-off-the-hog.

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: cactus | Post 292990889, reply to 292989028 ] (Score: 1)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: cactus | Post 292990891, reply to 292989031 ] (Score: 1)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: cactus | Post 292990914, reply to 292989028 ] (Score: 1)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: Splitends | Post 292990919, reply to 292990889 ] (Score: 1)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: Splitends | Post 292990956, reply to 292990914 ] (Score: 1)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: Splitends | Post 292990976, reply to 292990914 ] (Score: 1)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: cactus | Post 292990988, reply to 292990976 ] (Score: 1)

Why is this bridge still standing after the blast?

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: cactus | Post 292990999, reply to 292990988 ] (Score: 1)

Same distance from epicenter of blast but damage is inconsistant.

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: cactus | Post 292991017, reply to 292990999 ] (Score: 1)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: cactus | Post 292991100, reply to 292990999 ] (Score: 1)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: Splitends | Post 292991154, reply to 292990889 ] (Score: 1)

Did someone mention World War 2? What World War 2?

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: cactus | Post 292991161, reply to 292989028 ] (Score: 2)

The state is the problem, anarchy is the solution.

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: cactus | Post 292991171, reply to 292990988 ] (Score: 2)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: Aurelius | Post 292991174, reply to 292991161 ] (Score: 2)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: wacsog10 | Post 292991176, reply to 292991100 ] (Score: 1)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: Aurelius | Post 292991181, reply to 292991161 ] (Score: 1)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: cactus | Post 292991184, reply to 292991181 ] (Score: 1, Troll)

No June, I do NOT think I'm being too hard on the beaver."

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: OWK | Post 292991192, reply to 292991174 ] (Score: 2)

I'm a believer in conspiracies, but an enlightened one - if I may say so myself.

The state is the problem, anarchy is the solution.

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: Aurelius | Post 292991195, reply to 292991192 ] (Score: 2)

Re: Hiroshima: Before and After

[ To: OWK | Post 292991200, reply to 292991171 ] (Score: 1)